Artwork for podcast Leaders with impact
(E22) The menopause leadership expert Sinead Sharkey Steenson
Episode 22 • 24th June 2024 • Leaders with impact • Lee Griffith
00:00:00 00:45:25

Share Episode

Shownotes

Today’s discusion is about the menopause and perimenopause and the impact that can have on leaders and the workplace. If you’re thinking this topic isn’t for you - because you think you’re the wrong age or the wrong sex - then I challenge you to keep listening because by the end of the episode I hope you’ll know exactly why this topic is one all leaders need to pay attention to.

In today’s episode I’m chatting with menopause leadership expert Sinead Sharkey Steenson. Sinead helps leaders and organisations to respond to and manage the effects of perimenopause and menopause. She’s given a TedX talk on the topic and she’s passionate about stopping the talent drain that’s being seen in organisations due to a lack of awareness and support.

We explore:

  • what’s meant by menopause, perimenopause and post menopause
  • the symptoms people should be aware of
  • the real impact on organisations
  • how leaders and organisations can recognise and respond to the challenges people are facing
  • how to make uncomfortable conversations and situations more comfortable

Resources and helpful links

If you want to transform your leadership impact book a free consultation call with me

About leaders with impact

Want to know the secret of great leaders? In Leaders with impact we'll be exploring what makes an impactful leader; sharing stories of success and strategies that set them apart.

If you are ambitious for your organisation but are struggling to identify what you can do differently as a leader to deliver the right improvements, then hit subscribe to learn how you can get clear on your strategy, implement some self-leadership and connect with those you serve.

New episodes are released every fortnight.

Get in touch

If you enjoyed the episode please leave a review on Apple podcasts (or your app of choice) and let me know what you thought on LinkedIn or instagram.

I’ll be back with the next episode in two weeks so in the meantime remember to sign up to my newsletter to get notified of new episodes, guest appearances and further insights on how to lead with impact.

Transcripts

Lee Griffith:

Today's discussion is about the menopause and

Lee Griffith:

perimenopause and the impact that can have on leaders in the

Lee Griffith:

workplace. If you're thinking this topic isn't view because

Lee Griffith:

you think you're the wrong age or the wrong sex, then I

Lee Griffith:

challenge you to keep listening. Because by the end of the

Lee Griffith:

episode, I hope you'll know exactly why this topic is one

Lee Griffith:

all leaders need to pay attention to. I'm the Griffith

Lee Griffith:

leadership strategy coach and in the leaders of impact podcast

Lee Griffith:

I'm proven it's possible to succeed without following

Lee Griffith:

outdated rules and old school stereotypes. I'm here to help

Lee Griffith:

you get clear on your personal strategy, implement some self

Lee Griffith:

leadership, and connect with those who serve through your

Lee Griffith:

communication so that you can deliver improved organizational

Lee Griffith:

performance, engagement and reputation. If you want more

Lee Griffith:

leadership insights, sign up to my monthly newsletter at

Lee Griffith:

Sundayskies.com. In today's episode, I'm chatting with

Lee Griffith:

menopause leadership expert Sinead Sharkey Steenson Sinead

Lee Griffith:

helps leaders in organizations to respond to and manage the

Lee Griffith:

effects of perimenopause and menopause. She has given a TEDx

Lee Griffith:

talk on the topic which I'll link in the show notes, and

Lee Griffith:

she's passionate about stopping the talent drain that's been

Lee Griffith:

seen in organizations due to a lack of awareness and support.

Lee Griffith:

We explore what's meant by perimenopause and menopause. The

Lee Griffith:

symptoms people should be aware of how leaders in organizations

Lee Griffith:

can recognize and respond to the challenges people are facing,

Lee Griffith:

including how you can make uncomfortable conversations and

Lee Griffith:

situations more comfortable. Enjoy. So I'm delighted to

Lee Griffith:

welcome Sinead Sharkey Steenson to the leaders of impact

Lee Griffith:

podcast. Do you want to introduce yourself and just tell

Lee Griffith:

us a little bit about your background?

Unknown:

Oh, I'd love to. And thanks for having me. I am a

Unknown:

leadership career coach for women. And so I founded my

Unknown:

business generation women, around about nine years ago,

Unknown:

when I was at maternity leave with my second daughter, and I

Unknown:

thrive, I love working with women, to help them get to the

Unknown:

level that they truly deserve as leaders or in their careers to

Unknown:

help them navigate the leadership landscape. And most

Unknown:

recently, that's really started to involve very much navigating

Unknown:

perimenopause, menopause, it's like, all of my worlds have

Unknown:

collided. I have been navigated that time very much, as well.

Unknown:

Yeah. I was starting to see that the women that I was working

Unknown:

with it, it's funny because they often come to me feeling like

Unknown:

they've lost their mojo, or they're feeling burned talent,

Unknown:

or just not really feeling confident selves that they were.

Unknown:

And I started to notice a pattern. And so I've been

Unknown:

working for nine years with women to help them achieve what

Unknown:

they really want to achieve in their careers. As I worked with

Unknown:

more and more senior leaders at that point in life, I started to

Unknown:

notice a pattern of what I was being presented with, and then

Unknown:

matching it up with what I was feeling myself, recognizing a

Unknown:

lot of similarities and realized that actually, you know, a lot

Unknown:

of women are probably dealing with perimenopause or menopause,

Unknown:

not actually knowing that that's what's going on. And it's

Unknown:

impacting how they're navigating. Daily life, but

Unknown:

particularly my bit of expertise comes into how they navigate

Unknown:

their careers. And that leadership piece.

Lee Griffith:

Today, our conversation is very much gonna

Lee Griffith:

be focused on that latter part of what you've been working on,

Lee Griffith:

which is the the impact of menopause on leaders and on

Lee Griffith:

organizations or people in the workplace. So that we're

Lee Griffith:

starting from a suppose the same point and everyone understands

Lee Griffith:

what we mean when we're talking about some of these terms,

Lee Griffith:

because I think there are misconceptions around menopause

Lee Griffith:

perimenopause, people think they know what it is they think they

Lee Griffith:

know what it entails, but it can be it is very, very broad. So

Lee Griffith:

that we are all starting I suppose from this common point

Lee Griffith:

of understanding. Can you briefly explained by you know,

Lee Griffith:

what is what is meant by menopause, perimenopause.

Unknown:

Yeah, and of course, post menopause. Never Aiden's

Unknown:

fine. So, I actually included this in my TED talk, because I

Unknown:

think it is really misunderstood. Largely because

Unknown:

we only started talking about a couple years ago. I think most

Unknown:

of us didn't realize. Menopause will start there. There is a

Unknown:

day. And I think that's the bit that's really misunderstood. So

Unknown:

menopause is the one year anniversary of stopping

Unknown:

bleeding. So when you start bleeding, the clock starts and

Unknown:

are that one year anniversary, you have literally gone through

Unknown:

menopause. But if you start bleeding again that anytime in

Unknown:

that year, then the clock starts to get. And so there's an awful

Unknown:

lot of fuss made about one day. But the reality is that

Unknown:

perimenopause, and they see this in my TED Talk, is the I was

Unknown:

gonna say about, not necessarily your fault. But the the thing

Unknown:

that runs wild through your Barbie anywhere up to a decade

Unknown:

before you actually fully stop bleeding, and you fully hit

Unknown:

menopause ad so that can start with mild symptoms. And I'm not

Unknown:

here as a medically with that knowledge, but I know enough

Unknown:

about menopause medically, to understand what it looks like,

Unknown:

but it can feel perimenopause can be so different for every

Unknown:

different person. My personal experience was I had children

Unknown:

quite late. So I have my second doctor at 39. And I actually

Unknown:

think I slipped from post child birth to perimenopause in quite

Unknown:

a short time. And so it's useful to do that perimenopause can hit

Unknown:

at any stage of life post puberty, which is something I

Unknown:

don't think people know, generally. And why many women

Unknown:

can actually go through early menopause and not be not

Unknown:

understand what's going on, and not be believed that that is

Unknown:

what's going on. Because it's really not very well known. You

Unknown:

can go into perimenopause because of medical challenges.

Unknown:

So I had a chat with a woman quite recently, that has

Unknown:

endometriosis, quite severely. And she was put into medical

Unknown:

menopause five times in a few years, because of the treatment

Unknown:

that she was on. And so you can be plunged into all the symptoms

Unknown:

quite quickly, then. But for most of us, the average age at

Unknown:

stage is late 30s, early 40s, when you start hitting that

Unknown:

perimenopause, period, and then after menopause, the day you

Unknown:

have postman, which is where you can still face challenges. It's

Unknown:

not like when you've hit menopause, everything goes away,

Unknown:

because menopause, essentially, is a hormone deficiency. And the

Unknown:

hormones, the loss of hormones, affects everybody differently. A

Unknown:

bit like puberty affects everybody differently. When you

Unknown:

go through the actual menopause itself, you still have that

Unknown:

deficiency in hormones. Now, if you've, you're one of the lucky

Unknown:

ones, that's got away with it all quite lightly, that may well

Unknown:

continue. But for other people, it can mean having challenges

Unknown:

based on this boy mom deficiency for life. And, and that's

Unknown:

something we have to, to look at and be able to manage. And so I

Unknown:

can I can tell you about some of the things that you might start

Unknown:

to see and whatever, if that's how,

Lee Griffith:

yes, yes, I definitely want to come on to

Lee Griffith:

some of the some of the symptoms just to pick up on the age

Lee Griffith:

because I think this is one of the biggest challenges for

Lee Griffith:

people because there is an assumption that you hit a

Lee Griffith:

certain age, and it's usually 50s. And that's where everyone's

Lee Griffith:

focus goes. So from an organization and leadership

Lee Griffith:

point of view, they're not looking at perhaps at the

Lee Griffith:

broader workforce and how it might be impacting, but also

Lee Griffith:

individuals, as you said, don't necessarily recognize symptoms

Lee Griffith:

in themselves, because there is this lack of understanding that

Lee Griffith:

it could be hitting a lot earlier than people are assuming

Lee Griffith:

it could be hitting.

Unknown:

Yeah, absolutely. And there's so many important things

Unknown:

in that because one of the things it's it's like a slow

Unknown:

drip, you know, it's not like there's suddenly a flip, switch

Unknown:

flipped and you feel completely different. Like it's such a slow

Unknown:

process where those hormones shift and change, and so you

Unknown:

feel differently. And the other bit that I think is really

Unknown:

powerful because I think we are doing a lot more talking thanks

Unknown:

to the likes of the wonderful Davina McCall and, and

Unknown:

celebrities speaking out. And even though I get a lot of

Unknown:

backlash for it, I think it's, it's so powerful that they are

Unknown:

sharing their stories, because they're normalized in that. But

Unknown:

what we do need to realize is because it does hit so much

Unknown:

earlier, it's often right at the crux pine of your career, when

Unknown:

you really take enough, you're starting to get into senior

Unknown:

positions, you know, the responsibilities higher. And

Unknown:

also it's that point of life where children if you know, if

Unknown:

you've got children, they may be growing up, your parents are

Unknown:

getting older, we've got lots of pressures and responsibilities

Unknown:

elsewhere. So what I've noticed is it's, you kind of got this

Unknown:

pressure sandwich point in life, where Oh, joy, as women, it's

Unknown:

like, no, you don't do enough already, you're not carrying the

Unknown:

world on your shoulders. Let's just, let's just do this to your

Unknown:

body as well do this to your mind. So you're not really sure

Unknown:

what to wear yourself. And let's see how you can get on and cope.

Unknown:

And the amazing thing is, as women, I think even with all of

Unknown:

this, we still do cope, we still do amazing jobs, we're moving

Unknown:

that very can to ourselves in the process. I don't want the

Unknown:

menopause conversation to ever diminish women's potential

Unknown:

because I think we we work at such a high level, we achieve so

Unknown:

much that actually, it's maybe just a time where we we pull

Unknown:

back a bit, but we're still at a level beyond what most people

Unknown:

can help. Yeah.

Lee Griffith:

Well, you mentioned the M word men, and I

Lee Griffith:

will Oh, it might feel a bit thrown in here at this point in

Lee Griffith:

the conversation. But I'm, I suppose I'm appealing to men who

Lee Griffith:

may have started to listen to this and then think this isn't

Lee Griffith:

anything to do with me, because it's not a man's issue. So let's

Lee Griffith:

let's tackle that head on. Why do men need to keep listening to

Lee Griffith:

this episode?

Unknown:

Because it's an everybody issue. I'd like it,

Unknown:

I'm only joking about well, oh, still. Women do put up with a

Unknown:

lot. But it is an everybody issue. So it may directly impact

Unknown:

51% of the population. And maybe you've got younger listeners

Unknown:

that would switch off as well, you know, thinking that this

Unknown:

this isn't for me either. But there's a lot of reasons why

Unknown:

this is important. One is, you know, you know a lot of women,

Unknown:

you work with women, you have family that are women, that you

Unknown:

have friends that are women, one of the favorite things that's

Unknown:

happened to me through this whole process is my brother

Unknown:

actually said to me, I, I opened up about all of this, and I was

Unknown:

having quite a hard time. And he said, You know what, I think

Unknown:

some of my friends might be experiencing this, as well, as

Unknown:

we went away and read up on it himself. And he was like, right,

Unknown:

I can be a support here, or I can pretend it's not or whatnot.

Unknown:

And he chose to be a support. And that's the thing. You know,

Unknown:

men have their own challenges. And we know that mental health

Unknown:

is a massive issue. And we know, you know, that toxic masculinity

Unknown:

and all of those things, men are dealing with a lot of stuff

Unknown:

themselves. But so of women, and we're relying on women to be

Unknown:

brilliant in business to be, you know, to raise families to

Unknown:

support parents to do all of the things. So it's key that we we

Unknown:

offer the right sort of support, understanding, compassion, and

Unknown:

actually my experience of men in this conversation has been

Unknown:

really positive, and has been like, Yeah, I do want to learn

Unknown:

about this, I do want to be a better support. And they're

Unknown:

learning with us because women haven't had this conversation

Unknown:

until recent years. A lot of us are pretty clueless. And so

Unknown:

we're all kind of in it together. And this is an

Unknown:

opportunity to come together to work and support each other on

Unknown:

our own issues. And then we all benefit from that. Yeah, keep

Lee Griffith:

listening, please, if your finger was, was ready to

Lee Griffith:

skip,

Unknown:

pick up in this and who knows.

Lee Griffith:

So so let's go back then to I suppose the

Lee Griffith:

symptoms of perimenopause, which is what's going to affect people

Lee Griffith:

for the longest period of time knowingly or unknowingly. And

Lee Griffith:

they, I mean, I'm learning about this. I'm experiencing things

Lee Griffith:

that I'm assuming or perimenopause or myself Have,

Lee Griffith:

there are so many things that can fall under it. And my

Lee Griffith:

husband jokingly says, not everything can be linked to

Lee Griffith:

this. And it kind of feels like it can't. And so let's have a

Lee Griffith:

chat about some of the symptoms that people commonly are

Lee Griffith:

experiencing, but perhaps maybe not so commonly as well.

Unknown:

Yeah, you're allowed me, I blame everything on

Unknown:

menopause, and your husband isn't quite right in that. Now,

Unknown:

again, I'm seeing this as non medical, professional, but the

Unknown:

thing is, because hormones communicate with every single

Unknown:

cell in your body, when there's a loss of hormones, then every

Unknown:

single cell in your body can be impacted. And so there's a lot

Unknown:

of symptoms that we know about, and a lot that we're learning

Unknown:

about. And things are changing in that all the time. Now what I

Unknown:

would say is anything like keep a track of things and anything

Unknown:

to sinister other your natural, but like, always be speaking to

Unknown:

your doctor about this stuff. Don't just assume it is

Unknown:

manopause. Well, I will share with you some symptoms, I know

Unknown:

about some of my own that, maybe not the most Jarius. And things,

Unknown:

I never thought I won't be sharing that on a public forum.

Unknown:

But it's like, if somebody does it, then it makes it makes one

Unknown:

person feel less alone and better about what they're

Unknown:

dealing with. Great. So the common things we notice, and I

Unknown:

think you'll see at work, are starting to forget things. So

Unknown:

suddenly, that amazing memory you had, you're having to write

Unknown:

everything down. And this is the great thing that we do is we

Unknown:

find strategies to manage the things it can be losing words,

Unknown:

brain fog, you know, feeling like you're wading through

Unknown:

treacle times low energy, and were so those things, I was

Unknown:

living with three G's, and those things are quite natural for a

Unknown:

young Bob, those things feel natural when you're busy when

Unknown:

you're stressed. And so it's easy to say, Oh, it's just

Unknown:

stress, or it'll get better when but the thing is, you start to

Unknown:

notice things don't the things I noticed that for me made me

Unknown:

question was this more than stress or parenthood or

Unknown:

whatever, I started to get extreme rage. I like a joke in

Unknown:

the TED Talk sort of joke that I could easily have put a hatchet

Unknown:

in there. So we wasn't really at risk. But if there have been one

Unknown:

there who loads what could have been like, I am quite a calm and

Unknown:

easygoing person and I have never experienced read like it.

Unknown:

And so it makes you really question yourself. Although

Unknown:

symptoms, you know, irregular bleeding women, so for blood

Unknown:

floods. So there's a lot of talk about hybrid work in that should

Unknown:

we be back in the workplace. And whether you're neurodivergent

Unknown:

disabled, lots of people benefit from working from home, but

Unknown:

actually, somebody's going through perimenopause, you can

Unknown:

suddenly have a blood flood, which means you can literally be

Unknown:

soaked through without knowing that this is going to happen.

Unknown:

And so the comfort of home in those situations is is pretty

Unknown:

amazing. Because it means you can actually carry on about your

Unknown:

day, you can still do your job without the fear. And this Baris

Unknown:

woman and she, I mean, we've heard about hot flushes. And I

Unknown:

hear all the euphemisms that are used like hot flushes. Some

Unknown:

people may feel a bit tough, but actually, for a lot of women it

Unknown:

is I can be talking to you one minute feeling normal, the next

Unknown:

I could be drenched in sweat. And it's like you have just put

Unknown:

a shower over my head, my hair stuck to me, my clothes are

Unknown:

stuck to me. And that that causes anxiety, then, you know,

Unknown:

when is this going to happen to me? Am I going to be in front of

Unknown:

the boardroom doing a presentation, and of course

Unknown:

stress exacerbates symptoms. So when you're in a more stressful

Unknown:

situation, the likelihood of something like that happening is

Unknown:

increased. Anxiety is a really common symptom. And then there's

Unknown:

like there's so many and you can there's great resources, like

Unknown:

the balance app is a great place to track symptoms. There's lots

Unknown:

of men menopause symptom checkers online that are really

Unknown:

encouraged you go and check out what there's interesting ones

Unknown:

like itchy skin like I could have ripped my arm stuff with

Unknown:

how itchy my skin would be an impact on histamine your ability

Unknown:

to manage histamines, so I feel like I have severe hay fever all

Unknown:

year. And you could have heard of burning mass, itchy eyes, dry

Unknown:

eyes, vaginal dryness, itchiness, like the list goes

Unknown:

on. But a really common one I've heard that I don't think that

Unknown:

I've experienced I don't know if you can call it strictly a

Unknown:

symptom is fear about driving that night? And so when I say to

Unknown:

women, have loads of them go, Oh, my God. Yeah, that's me.

Unknown:

That's totally mean. And so, and it's a mix of, I believe the

Unknown:

impact of of all the horrible interaction. So it's stuff with

Unknown:

your eyesight does tea, but also anxiety. I've never been one

Unknown:

really for anxiety. But I would suffer a lot more anxiety, about

Unknown:

driving about decision making, about doing things like

Unknown:

traveling, I used to travel in like a pinch of salt. I couldn't

Unknown:

be, you know, gone off anywhere on my own. Not a problem. Now,

Unknown:

I'm second guessing, did I booked my flights, are they on

Unknown:

the right day, I might go into the right airport, what am I

Unknown:

gonna bring? I'm like, so everything is a much bigger

Unknown:

decision and thought process than it felt like an before. And

Unknown:

so often women are dealing with all of this alone, because

Unknown:

they're too scared to say, actually, this, what is going

Unknown:

on? First of all, they don't know what's going on. But

Unknown:

secondly, they don't want to, we're often in a leadership

Unknown:

position, particularly the only woman in the room or you know,

Unknown:

the only woman at a level. And you don't want to make yourself

Unknown:

vulnerable and put yourself at risk by declaring all of this is

Unknown:

going down. And people think I'm not capable of doing my job.

Unknown:

Now, there's times you may need a break, and whatever. And we

Unknown:

could talk about that. But actually, most women get through

Unknown:

this. It is a reason why so many women leave the workplace

Unknown:

because of the struggle with the symptoms, and the lack of

Unknown:

support, and not maybe knowing what's going on and not knowing

Unknown:

how to ask for help.

Lee Griffith:

And how big a problem is that in

Lee Griffith:

organizations,

Unknown:

it's actually much bigger. I don't know if we can

Unknown:

get a true figure. But Royal London came out with some

Unknown:

research. I think it was last year or the year before. That

Unknown:

said that 50% of women are considering leaving the

Unknown:

workplace because of their menopause symptoms. And Booper,

Unknown:

I think was have put a figure of almost a million women having

Unknown:

left the workplace already because of it. But the challenge

Unknown:

is, like I've spoken to a chief people officer who had left a

Unknown:

job for a year before realizing that that's what it was. So she

Unknown:

was just like, I can't cope with this anymore. And so often, it's

Unknown:

thought that it's actually stress. And what brought it home

Unknown:

to me, I would have done some work with an amazing woman

Unknown:

called Emma per sand, who works in the NHS, she's menopause

Unknown:

expert. She used to work in occupational health and stress.

Unknown:

And she said she got really interested in menopause and did

Unknown:

her training and qualifications. Because she realized that quite

Unknown:

often, women were were being put on a stress pathway through

Unknown:

occupational health, with nobody recognized and actually, it

Unknown:

wasn't stress at all. And so when the stress doesn't resolve

Unknown:

because the wrong thing was being treated, then it's natural

Unknown:

in many organizations that people leave or get managed out.

Unknown:

And so it is very common. And yet there's so much we can do to

Unknown:

support women so that they don't get to that stage or that they

Unknown:

get the help if they are at that stage. And we don't let this

Unknown:

amazing talent walk out of the door. You know, these are women

Unknown:

that are performing well that are valuable to the business

Unknown:

that we need to be making a difference and having an impact.

Unknown:

And yet they're leaving because it feels like there's no other

Unknown:

option.

Lee Griffith:

So what should leaders in organizations be

Lee Griffith:

aware of, I suppose with all this going on, and that that

Lee Griffith:

uncertainty even in individuals of knowing whether it is related

Lee Griffith:

to this, whether it's related to stress, whether it's an

Lee Griffith:

organizational issue or a person, like, there's so many

Lee Griffith:

different reasons behind why women could be feeling the way

Lee Griffith:

they're feeling in the workplace, how do leaders start

Lee Griffith:

to tap into identifying what those issues are? And then

Lee Griffith:

knowing how to tackle them in the right way?

Unknown:

Yeah. And that is so important, because it's kind of

Unknown:

a dangerous conversation, because I have heard rallies and

Unknown:

incident incidents of A, in some cases, men, and they are case

Unknown:

women saying, or maybe this is your time of life, like I've

Unknown:

heard that said to women in their early 30s, who are are

Unknown:

experiencing low confidence or low motivation. And there could

Unknown:

be 100 different reasons why they're experiencing that. So we

Unknown:

don't go in with the, oh, is this your time of life, and then

Unknown:

it been almost becomes weaponized against you. But it's

Unknown:

like anything, I always think, if we can just have good

Unknown:

supportive conversations. And you might, you might have

Unknown:

noticed that somebody has performances changed, or they,

Unknown:

they may be struggling, but they haven't opened up about it, like

Unknown:

a nice, quiet, safe conversation in the right environment. Seeing

Unknown:

I have noticed this difference. And I wanted to check in with

Unknown:

you, how are you doing? Is everything okay? And how can I

Unknown:

help? What can we do to support you better. So at that point,

Unknown:

the person will hopefully feel supported enough to share what's

Unknown:

going on. And they may or they may not know, and as part of a

Unknown:

conversation when they open up about what's going on, and and

Unknown:

anything they're struggling with. And a really good thing to

Unknown:

do is to listen, obviously, and to not jump on their stuff. But

Unknown:

also, if somebody's not forthcoming, is to share some of

Unknown:

your own challenges and struggles and show that, you

Unknown:

know, we're in this together be a good way of helping people or

Unknown:

not. But if you wanted to do something bigger, I mean, it is

Unknown:

about having amount of pass policy in place. And there's

Unknown:

loads of good examples of them out there in the world. So big

Unknown:

companies like Lidl, and Vodafone have I do in group work

Unknown:

and their stuff is out there, they're sharing key studies,

Unknown:

government websites share that kind of stuff as well. But a

Unknown:

policy alone will not change things, it's all about being

Unknown:

able to have good conversations, or maybe your manager isn't the

Unknown:

right person to speak to you. So maybe have an amount of past

Unknown:

champion in your organization that is trained and understands

Unknown:

about menopause, and can give you that support. Maybe having

Unknown:

specific health care support can really help. And maybe having

Unknown:

coaching support can really help. So that's the thing that

Unknown:

I've seen with the women that I work with, is that it's a

Unknown:

combination of health care, getting the right support there.

Unknown:

So you know, if somebody talks about anxiety, or depression, or

Unknown:

you know, any physical symptoms and changes lots of memory, you

Unknown:

know, the suggestion that it might be a good idea to speak to

Unknown:

your GP to understand this, or we have this healthcare support

Unknown:

here, why don't we get you a checkup, and we can see what's

Unknown:

going on. And then when we know what we're dealing with, then we

Unknown:

can really give you the best support. And so when people have

Unknown:

got the health care, but that is the starting point. And then the

Unknown:

coaching bit really comes into its own, because a lot of this

Unknown:

stuff can leave a lasting damage and impact. So if you've had a

Unknown:

lot of anxiety, struggle challenge with memory with

Unknown:

different symptoms, your confidence can be massively

Unknown:

impacted. Your self belief can be impacted. So then coaching

Unknown:

can really help lift that person back up again, and really

Unknown:

support them to get back to the amazing potential that they they

Unknown:

really have. But I do think we have to give people a bit of

Unknown:

time and a bit of grease and a bit of you know, we all have our

Unknown:

good times, bad times, good days and bad days. And to give people

Unknown:

grace to have that and and not expect massive performance

Unknown:

results every, every single day, especially when, you know, the

Unknown:

likelihood is that person's probably been over performing,

Unknown:

as I see with women, you know, for for quite a long time, then

Unknown:

maybe you can afford to cut them some slack and give them the

Unknown:

support they need to get back to feeling themselves. Yeah,

Lee Griffith:

it's an interesting one about having

Lee Griffith:

menopause champions and people like that. And I'm very

Lee Griffith:

supportive of of that, but I also see organizations use that

Lee Griffith:

as their tick box. And then they can ignore it the most senior

Lee Griffith:

level in an organization because they've pushed it down into its

Lee Griffith:

appropriate space to be dealt with. And it becomes a HR or

Lee Griffith:

anokhi health issue. And it doesn't become something that's

Lee Griffith:

a board responsibility to tackle. What are your thoughts

Lee Griffith:

on that? I suppose.

Unknown:

So I have not been along with you strongly because

Unknown:

my my earlier background, so I have a 20 year background in

Unknown:

corporate. And more than half of that was in cultural

Unknown:

transformation. So I'm very familiar with tick box in the

Unknown:

exercises and how people love to get that ticked off, but not

Unknown:

really engage in that. And I am so passionate about knowing that

Unknown:

you either do it properly, or you don't do it at all, because

Unknown:

half doing things is so much more damaging than not at all

Unknown:

creating expectation, given people the idea that the

Unknown:

illusion of support actually hurts them so much more than the

Unknown:

knocks thing in the first place. So yeah, it's like anything, it

Unknown:

has to be people at all levels need to understand, at some

Unknown:

level, what menopause is, and what it's about. And also need

Unknown:

to really appreciate that, yes, it, it can be a challenge for

Unknown:

women at this time. But it's totally over comparable. And it

Unknown:

doesn't diminish them as individuals, because they've

Unknown:

used this term already, like my big fear about us been talking

Unknown:

about this, a lot of women's fear is that it will be

Unknown:

weaponized. And they have seen that happen where women have

Unknown:

been open, and, and even been asked to speak in the company

Unknown:

about their experience. And then that feeds certain people's

Unknown:

unconscious bias, and then they've been sidelined because

Unknown:

of him. And so inclusion support is all an action that we have to

Unknown:

take daily, and we have to check ourselves on. So we have to say,

Unknown:

okay, you know, this person we have, we can't just look at

Unknown:

today's performance, we have to look at the back catalogue of,

Unknown:

of expertise, I'd say, okay, you know, up until this point,

Unknown:

they've been amazing. Like, what do I really want to lose this

Unknown:

person? What support? Do they need to get back to where they

Unknown:

need to be? And if this was me, you know what, I expect that,

Unknown:

and that's everybody's responsibility. So we can at the

Unknown:

top levels of leadership say, No, you know, this is my

Unknown:

problem. We've got our menopause champions. Now. It's all good.

Unknown:

Well, it's actually you know, as a leadership team, we are a team

Unknown:

who in the room is at their best who's struggling and who's

Unknown:

having talented menopause or not, we should be providing that

Unknown:

support, and creating a culture where people feel like they've

Unknown:

got that behind. And that's something that that we want to

Unknown:

filter through the whole organization. So it's, yeah,

Unknown:

it's not a tick and done it's like it's an ongoing

Unknown:

conversation support, checking in with people, you know, making

Unknown:

it part of your your surveys, making it part of conversations,

Unknown:

and it's not a handyman or parts do. It's like, how are you

Unknown:

doing? Hey, do you feel supported? Do you feel like we

Unknown:

as a company are helping you to thrive? Because surely when we

Unknown:

all thrive, then the business does better? And people are

Unknown:

loyal people want to stay people want to do more for you. And so

Unknown:

you're actually feeding the whole system for success. Yeah,

Unknown:

and it's

Lee Griffith:

you've touched on this earlier but the things like

Lee Griffith:

looking at the your policies and procedures not just having a

Lee Griffith:

policy for menopause, but The broader ones around flexible

Lee Griffith:

work in hybrid working. You You need that as a leader, even just

Lee Griffith:

accommodating a multi generational workforce, you need

Lee Griffith:

to understand the differences. And so but if you're not asking

Lee Griffith:

the question, how does it affect people who might be experiencing

Lee Griffith:

menopause? How does it affect people of different age groups?

Lee Griffith:

How does it affect people of different race or class or

Lee Griffith:

whatever, that it's another one of those lenses that you need to

Lee Griffith:

look through?

Unknown:

Yeah, absolutely. And I understand, it's really

Unknown:

challenging. Because we are so much aware now than we used to

Unknown:

be, there's a lot more things to consider. But it's really

Unknown:

simple. If you get a diverse group of people around the

Unknown:

table, to assess your policies to input to things to come up

Unknown:

with ideas, then you will get naturally get a system of

Unknown:

support that works for a diverse set of people, like it's really

Unknown:

not rocket science. But if you've got six men, or six women

Unknown:

in the room designing, and six, white able bodied, you know,

Unknown:

sis, meals on the meals, you know, you are gonna get what

Unknown:

works for them, and nobody else. So this is why I feel we are in

Unknown:

the most exciting time ever, because there's this awakening

Unknown:

to how much value diversity brings to the conversation. And

Unknown:

not only will it make the culture of your organization

Unknown:

better, and make people happier, or thrive and perform better.

Unknown:

But also whatever you're producing, as your output is

Unknown:

going to be better too. Because that's going to serve a wider

Unknown:

population. I'd side so yeah. When When, when, when when.

Lee Griffith:

I mean, this thing, it can sound a bit trite,

Lee Griffith:

but your workforce should be reflecting the communities you

Lee Griffith:

serve in however you're serving them. And so it tackling issues

Lee Griffith:

like that you're being just as supportive to your communities

Lee Griffith:

that you're serving as you are your workforce.

Unknown:

Absolutely. And I know you say it's trite, but

Unknown:

actually, it's ridiculous that only now we're waking up to the

Unknown:

fact that this is a we can do the best possible business is by

Unknown:

having that diversity of thought and diversity of input. And then

Unknown:

we get much, much better results for everybody involved.

Lee Griffith:

Can I ask about the in the moment how you handle

Lee Griffith:

situations because that we've talked a lot on the general

Lee Griffith:

support, maybe the informal conversations that you're having

Lee Griffith:

with people to see what you know, what help they might need

Lee Griffith:

or how they're feeling or that and, and it is an uncomfortable

Lee Griffith:

conversation for for many people to have. But then you've got

Lee Griffith:

that moment where you might see someone struggling in a board

Lee Griffith:

meeting or doing a presentation, they might be, you know, you

Lee Griffith:

might visibly see them have the hot flush, you might they might

Lee Griffith:

be lost for words, they might be perhaps reacting quite strongly

Lee Griffith:

to something that you feel was out of proportion, but actually,

Lee Griffith:

that's the rage that they're feeling that you've mentioned.

Lee Griffith:

So how, how can leaders better prepare to deal with stuff in

Lee Griffith:

the moment? And what does a good response look like if they

Lee Griffith:

recognize this of a colleague? And

Unknown:

love that? And what a great question, part of it comes

Unknown:

down to knowing your people, each of us respond differently

Unknown:

to different things, you know, some people will want somebody

Unknown:

to come beside them and offer them support, whereas other

Unknown:

people, that's going to be a challenge for it. So I can give

Unknown:

some tips. But first of all, it's important to think it's

Unknown:

it's not always a one size fits all, knowing who you're with,

Unknown:

and what's good for them. And so it all comes down to great

Unknown:

communication and great conversations. If you've built

Unknown:

relationships. If you've made a comfortable environment, then

Unknown:

people are going to feel more open to share themselves. And so

Unknown:

one way you can do that is by you start and sharing. And it's

Unknown:

not just a mean that as a man, you're obviously not going to be

Unknown:

able to share about your experience but seeing you know,

Unknown:

I go into my daughter's football match to the I believe in early

Unknown:

or I'm having a bit of a stress he had D today I feel like I

Unknown:

just need to take some time ago and be on my own. So just that

Unknown:

process of being more open with what's going on with you creates

Unknown:

a culture of openness in itself. And then if somebody is

Unknown:

struggling in the moment, then they're gonna feel more able to

Unknown:

say, oh, like and if you're a woman going through menopause,

Unknown:

you're in the mood while a senior leadership position, and

Unknown:

you feel it's, you know, comfortable, you can say, Oh,

Unknown:

I'm having a brain fart moment, or I'm having a heart flush, I

Unknown:

think I just need to take a break, approaching the person,

Unknown:

then it's, it's, you know, maybe saying, You're doing a great job

Unknown:

there, it looks like it will be a good time for us all to have a

Unknown:

break and a stretch, grab a coffee, and then we can come

Unknown:

back and see the rest of your amazing presentation, or

Unknown:

whatever it is. But creating time and space for somebody. You

Unknown:

don't have to call out the issue. You don't have to say oh,

Unknown:

it looks like you get and then a bit of a hot mess there love

Unknown:

things I have heard big sad. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it looks like

Unknown:

you're getting a bit emotional there. Those are not helpful

Unknown:

things to see what's seen, I feel like we could all use a

Unknown:

break right about now we've been sitting in this hot room for a

Unknown:

while, I think it will do us all a bit of God to take a breather

Unknown:

and stretch and come back to this just gives everybody time

Unknown:

and space. And then that person can go and collect themselves

Unknown:

and gather themselves and menopausal or whatever it is,

Unknown:

every person has needed that at some point in their career. And

Unknown:

so given whoever it is, is going through that challenging moment

Unknown:

that time and space is all that's needed. Yeah,

Lee Griffith:

we're getting to the end of our time together. So

Lee Griffith:

a couple of final wrap up questions. One, I suppose is

Lee Griffith:

just a signpost in if someone's listened to this episode, have

Lee Griffith:

recognized in themselves or in others that actually it's

Lee Griffith:

something that they need to go and do some further exploration

Lee Griffith:

or or seek some support where where would you suggest they go?

Lee Griffith:

Well,

Unknown:

there's two places you can connect with me easily and I

Unknown:

will be happy to have a chat with you and signpost you

Unknown:

connect with me on LinkedIn, Sinead Sharkey Stinson or check

Unknown:

out my website, Jen women dot global, there are some great

Unknown:

menopause resources online, and particularly for procedures and

Unknown:

that kind of thing. You know, check it government websites,

Unknown:

but I always think look, what are the best businesses doing

Unknown:

and they usually are all put up share their stuff, why not? Why

Unknown:

reinvent the wheel when you can learn from them, and follow what

Unknown:

they're doing. And, and the big thing is, is don't just think

Unknown:

about it. Go and talk to people ask what do they want, and go

Unknown:

out and find that help? And I'm happy to have a chat and

Unknown:

signpost, you. And I'm sure there's plenty of other experts

Unknown:

out there that will be happy to as well. Great.

Lee Griffith:

We'll put all the links in the show notes for

Lee Griffith:

people who are interested. My final question and it's one I

Lee Griffith:

ask all our experts that come on the show, what's the one piece

Lee Griffith:

of advice that you would like leaders to take away from

Lee Griffith:

today's conversation?

Unknown:

It's always hard to I think that the one thing I would

Unknown:

see from working with leaders, I mean, I coached men for a long

Unknown:

time before I coached women is we could all use some more self

Unknown:

compassion. So when I work with people, a lot of what we focus

Unknown:

on is how to reduce the stress we put on ourselves. Because

Unknown:

that's something we have a lot of influence over, we maybe

Unknown:

don't have influence over the external, but we can do a lot

Unknown:

with the internal. If you're afraid of saying the wrong thing

Unknown:

as a man dealing with the situation, lighten up on

Unknown:

yourself, the fact that you've got good intention, maybe you

Unknown:

declare that and say I'm scared of saying the wrong thing here.

Unknown:

I just want you to know I'm here and supportive. As a woman, cut

Unknown:

yourself some slack like be count yourself recognize that

Unknown:

you carry so much and that it is okay to have an AF day and a

Unknown:

half week and a half months, whatever it is, what to go and

Unknown:

ask for help for that. And when we can to ourselves or recognize

Unknown:

that we don't have we can't do it all then we can start to make

Unknown:

real progress. And that's what I love to help people achieve so

Unknown:

that they can release that load on themselves and get on with

Unknown:

what they need to do to to be in a better place and space. Great

Unknown:

but

Lee Griffith:

thank you so much for your time Sinead and hope

Lee Griffith:

speak again see

Unknown:

all thank you So much for how am I really enjoyed

Unknown:

this.

Lee Griffith:

If you enjoyed the episode, please leave a review

Lee Griffith:

on Apple podcasts and let me know what you thought on

Lee Griffith:

LinkedIn. You can find me at Lee Griffith. I'll be back with the

Lee Griffith:

next episode in two weeks time. So in the meantime, sign up to

Lee Griffith:

my newsletter at Sundayskies.com for monthly insights on how else

Lee Griffith:

you can lead with impact. Until next time,

Chapters

Video

More from YouTube