Technology Propels the Future of Construction with Aarni Heiskanen
Episode 555th October 2022 • Construction Disruption • Isaiah Industries
00:00:00 00:40:43

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Despite construction’s reputation for being stuck in its ways, innovation and technology continue to play an important role in advancing the industry.

In this episode we hear from Finland’s Aarni Heiskanen, a Construction Innovation Agent, podcaster, and blogger for AEC Business. After his start as an architect, Aarni helped bring CAD to Finland in the ‘90s. Ever since then, he’s been an advocate for technology in construction, either through consulting or his podcast.

In this interview, Aarni shares the state of the construction industry in Finland, his visions of the future, the possible applications of AI in construction, how to reach the younger generation of the workforce, and information on the upcoming World of Digital Build Environment Summit.

Reach out to Aarni on LinkedIn, listen to episodes of the AEC Business Podcast, and check out WDBE talks with Aarni.


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Transcripts

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

I think that one of the challenges has little to do with technology. In fact, I often and always see the roadblocks to smarter construction to be the existing ways we are compensated and rewarded for our work, for example. And that leads to this kind of idea that we are playing a zero sum game. So if I win, you lose. And if I lose, you can win in that case.

Todd Miller:

:

Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of building and remodeling. I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building materials. And today my co-host is Seth Heckaman. How you doing, Seth?

Seth Heckaman:

:

Doing great today. How are you?

Todd Miller:

:

I'm doing well. Good to be here. So just to let our audience know we are going to be doing our challenge words and our guest is participating as well. And what happens with the challenge words is we each have a word that we're challenged to say at some point during our podcast recording today. And so listeners can be listening for strange words that they might hear and they think, Oh, maybe that was the challenge word. We'll see. But then at the end, we will announce our success or lack thereof, on using our challenge words. So let's get rolling. On today's episode of Construction Disruption, our spotlighted guest is Aarni Heiskanen, who is managing partner with consulting and communication company AEC Partners, based in Helsinki, Finland. With a master's degree in architecture, Aarni is a management consultant and business software developer who helps construction industry innovators succeed. Hailed as a top 100 influencer in construction technology, he is also host of the aecbusiness.com blog and the AEC Business Podcast, which features interviews with innovative leaders in all phases of construction. Aarni, welcome to Construction Disruption. Great to have you here.

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, thanks, Todd and Seth, it's great to be here and for once on this side of the virtual table.

Todd Miller:

:

Well, that's right. You're normally doing the interviewing. So we've got you on the other side in the hot seat today. Well, thank you so much for joining us. I've been looking forward to this. So, Aarni, your education actually is in architecture. I'm curious, what led you down that path of architecture? Are design and construction things that maybe interested you even as a youngster?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, I have a family background in construction, as I guess is the case with many others in the industry typically. I was actually interested in technology, but also arts and architecture and found it a bit hard to decide which path to take, so to speak. But as a schoolkid I was fascinated by electronics and I had an uncle who brought me all sorts of electronics components and I put together radio transmitters and my stereo system and all sorts of instruments. So, so I was really fascinated by technology early on, but when I finished high school I was admitted to three universities actually, so one in physics, economics, and one in architecture. And I decided to choose architecture because it was the toughest place to get in. And I liked the idea of becoming an architect one day. So yes, it has been in my blood, so to speak, but also technology to a high degree.

Todd Miller:

:

Wow. Well, you're a little different than me. If I had the choice of three schools, I probably would not have taken the most difficult one. So I applaud you for being up to the challenge. That's fantastic. So as your career has progressed, though, you have ended up more on the path of technology and the future of construction rather than, I believe, so much hands-on design and in architecture. What did that pathway look like for you? How did you end up going that direction versus more of a construction or design-oriented career?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, in fact, I started off as an architect designing something for a few months. But then I was hired by by a company whose founder was a professor who who had actually been in the USA in the 1950s and '60s. And there he had acquainted himself with computer-aided design at Stanford. And he was so enthusiastic about the idea that when I entered the company in 1984, he invested in in computer-aided design. And I was one of the lucky ones who who was invited to be on that team of, let's say, pioneers in CAD in Finland. And we actually did some wonderful projects, one laboratory, and a huge office building. And I was in charge of, of those, let's say, CAD integration and we did a lot of programing. And because the tools back then were not designed for architects, they were designed for industrial design and military purposes, so to speak. Then I moved to another company as an R&D manager. And you may remember in 1994, Netscape browser came about and it led me to web app design and starting my own business around that idea. But then came the Internet bubble, and I became a management consultant, helping companies in various industries, including construction. And one of the spinoffs from that consulting business was a software company, which I actually wrote the first version of the software. It was for IT and project portfolio management. And nowadays it's a separate company. It's doing really well. It has something like 300,000 end users currently. So it's been a huge success. But I still do consulting work, but now I focus more on AEC businesses, innovation, and communication needs.

Todd Miller:

:

Wow. Very good. So over the last year, we have had a couple of other international guests here on Construction Disruption and certainly very pleased to have you here from Finland today. I'm just kind of curious, can you give us sort of an overview of what construction is like in Finland today, maybe what are some of the most active sectors and maybe even some of the more innovative things you see happening right now?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, Finland is a small market if you compare it with your country. I just checked that there are only 27 contractors in Finland who have a turnover of over $100 million and the biggest company has a turnover of €2.9 billion or dollars. They are nowadays pretty much the same. So it's a small market, but and I think that because we are so small, we are really collaborative here in Finland and collaboration is between companies, but it's also between companies and academics and research institutions. And also the government is really active here in Finland. I guess unlike in the U.S., government is really interested in investing in construction and real estate innovation and technology. And I think we are as an industry in Finland, we are very advanced in prefabrication, in construction, especially tech planning, tech production, and virtual design and construction. I think that almost every project nowadays is maybe over 80% use of BIM models in construction, for example, and we have several government initiated and funded programs to advance digital interoperability and innovation. And by the way, I'm involved in one group called Building 2030. It was devised by Aalto University in 2016, I think, and it has, Aalto University and 21 companies in the construction industry and they are together. They created a vision for the industry for 2030, hence the name. And they are supporting university research that serves their business purposes. So the businesses are funding research and they have got some really interesting results. I just heard that, for example, they measure every year how they their projects, that they are involved in, how they have performed. And for example, last year, 91.4% of the almost 200 projects within the group were on time. So typically we say that construction is never on time or on budget. At least here in Finland we are doing something right in that sense.

Todd Miller:

:

Yeah, I would certainly say you are, especially during the last couple of years it's been very hard to keep projects on time, so. Very interesting.

Seth Heckaman:

:

I'm curious what drives that collaboration or how does that come about? Because I do think here in our market in the States, it can get very siloed. So is it just a willingness to network? And if you have problems looking outside your sector or their trade associations, they have multiple disciplines or what drives that?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, yeah, I think it's in the nature of of the Finnish culture to collaborate because as I said, we are small country with 5.5 million people. And so it has been a tradition to do things together. And of course, there are restrictions how much companies can actually collaborate. Certain legal issues, of course, may, may come out. But in general, and one thing that is also very descriptive of our country is the trust in authorities and the government, which is not the case in every country. I would say so. And the government is really sees the value of investing in R&D and interoperability, for example, because they see that that will boost our national economy eventually. But of course, it's not so rosy every day. But in general, I would say that we are exceptionally collaborative in this industry.

Todd Miller:

:

That's very neat and very, very interesting as well. I think that other countries, including the U.S., could benefit from that. We historically say that here in the U.S., the construction industry is a bit of a slog, very slow to change, very slow to adapt, very slow to take on new technologies. And, you know, certainly has been seen as one of the last industries here in the U.S. really to try to start to figure out how tech and things can benefit us. I'm kind of curious, what countries do you see really leading the way in terms of technology and construction? Who do you think we should be looking at and watching?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

I would say that there are certainly some stars in the U.S. as well. So because you have so many companies and so, so much capital in certain areas. So, of course, there are stars and high performers in the U.S. as well. But in general, I would say that my understanding is that the general maturity level technologically is higher in Finland than it's in the U.S. But countries that are really leading, well, not every country is leading in every aspect. But I would point out, for example, Singapore, Israel, of course the Nordics, the Netherlands, the U.K., and our Baltic neighbors here, like Estonia, a small country, but making tremendous leaps in digital construction. And, of course, China is also demonstrating some fantastic speeds in construction, though I'm not sure. But I believe thatvery much relates to modular construction and prefabrication. But those are the countries that I would mention. But of course there are others as well. But in Europe I think the level also within the European Union, it's really differs between countries. But in general I think we are here in the Nordics are pretty good doing pretty well.

Todd Miller:

:

Interesting. I know you mentioned there modular construction and factory offsite construction. We have an upcoming guest here on this show, Paolo Tiramani, who is the founder of a company called Boxabl in Las Vegas. And Boxabl has come up with some modularized designs and really doing some very, very cool stuff. So I am anxious to to talk to him. I think he is certainly one of the leaders here in the U.S. in terms of at least some some vision out there of what things could look like in the future. So as you look out to the future, say, over the next 20 years, what are some things that come to mind for you as being some of the more exciting or innovative types of things you expect to see over the next 20 years?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Yeah, it's as you know, technology development is exponential, whereas our human development is not typically exponential. I think that it's always taken ten years for any new idea to break through. So what can happen in 20 years? Of course, I think that our industry will follow the development of technology and especially digital technology. I expect a lot from process automation and digital fabrication and also something that we call situational awareness. So automating certain business processes, making them transparent, collaborative. If you imagine a factory, they have a control room. Where in the control room you can immediately see what the production is, how the production is going, if there are any failures, what are the performance metrics in real time? And I think that that same kind of idea of maybe it's a virtual control room will appear also in in our industry. And so I mean, I believe in automation and digital fabrication and digital fabrication. We can talk more about that, of course, but basically it's about how we turn digital models and designs directly into constructing more constructions and using robots and machines. So I expect to see a lot of in that sector. But also one thing that is really important is empowering field workers, those who work on the site with, let's say, mixed reality gear and robots in a way making everybody like Iron Man on the site or Iron Lady. I don't know. And one thing that I've realized, that construction technology is also going to change the gender equality situation in construction, because nowadays it's a very, let's say, male-dominated industry. But as we are digitalizing the industry and we are getting more, let's say, robots, it's not the guy with big muscles who was the the construction worker of the future. It's maybe it's somebody with skills to use all these technologies and women can do this as well, at least as well as men.

Todd Miller:

:

Sure. So technology can be sort of an equalizer and also allow everyone to be utilized for their their top skills and abilities. Yeah, very neat. Well, you know, a lot of times I think when we think about tech, we do think about in construction, we think about automation, and some of the things you've been discussing. Any thoughts ultimately on how tech is going to impact the what I would call the aesthetics, the design, the looks of our structures going forward?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, as an architect originally, I really am interested in seeing that. And I don't know if you have seen online, but there are now a lot of AI-generated images of architecture and art and so on. And these are really fantastic ideas that I think that speaks about. Of course they are just images. They are not real buildings or real designs. But still, I think that technology will allow us to do more with less material and create imaginative and at the same time cost-effective, and sustainable architecture. So it will actually help us optimize our buildings and also make them more, let's say, more innovative in many ways, also how they look and feel. And I would imagine that something like an organic architecture kind of expression will come out of this eventually, because machines are not restricted by traditional ways of of building in traditional structural mechanics. So that's something that will eventually change the way buildings look.

Todd Miller:

:

Very neat. I saw a news story recently where an AI-generated painting or a piece of artwork won a competition in Pennsylvania, I think here in the States. And, you know, it's just this fantastically creative image that came out. I mean, it sort of created this surreal sort of image and and just something that had never seen a person come up with that before. So it was pretty fascinating to to learn about that. Well, you know, speaking of AI and artificial intelligence, what are some of the ways you see it making its way into construction, maybe, perhaps even beyond while we've been talking about some of the creative design work?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, I was lucky to be on a team last year that created a course for on A.I., for the built environment here in Finland. It's also available in English, by the way, and it was really nice to see how AI is developing. But so far the applications in this industry have been pretty limited, I would say. But what it could do, and already does to some extent, is that we can use it for predictive analysis of projects. For example, we can before we even design anything, we can start exploring various alternatives and and in that sense, use A.I. for risk management. Then we have design optimization. We can have A.I. go through hundreds of or thousands or tens of thousands of design alternatives and start optimizing the designs based on several criteria, something that is really difficult for us humans. We can easily manage to take care of two criteria, but having like one hundred is really difficult. And then of course something that is already taking place is computer vision applications for quality and safety. Situational awareness, which I mentioned earlier, is something that what I mean by that is that everybody on a construction side and all the other stakeholders as well know exactly what has happened on the side, what is going on at the moment and what will happen next. So everybody has a clear picture, the situation picture. And to do that, we need a lot of data and data. We humans cannot process that much data. So we can have A.I. process that data and make the conclusions and estimates and and predictions about the construction. I think I see huge potential in that because that's one of the problems we have because we don't have enough we don't understand what's going on. We cannot communicate all the time. So it is becoming too difficult for us humans to manage all that information that's now coming from all the devices and what is required from us.

Todd Miller:

:

I'd never even thought about that. You know how A.I. will be able to do things so much more and so much faster than we can. Wow. Never thought about that relationship to construction, very cool. Well, so that kind of leads into, you know, a possible challenge coming up in terms of construction and, you know, how do we do all of that stuff? What are some of the challenges you see facing construction now or coming up in the future?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, I think that one of the challenges has little to do with technology. In fact, I often always see the roadblocks to smarter construction to be the existing ways we are compensated and rewarded for our work, for example. And that leads to this kind of idea that we we are playing a zero sum game. So if I win, you lose. And if I lose, you can win in that case. So that's something that we have to get rid of. And that, of course, requires changes in the way we do agreements, the way we do bidding, and also certainly in regulations as well. And to be honest, also, how trade unions, for example, do their business. So I think that that's one of the challenges that we are so fixed in our thinking and in our systems. Our systems are not allowing us to be innovative. But of course, we have also other challenges outside of our industry, the global challenges of sustainability. For example, we have a huge carbon footprint and also we produce a lot of waste and all the environments that we create are not always optimal. So I think that that's something that we need to tackle. Of course, the environmental aspect and also we have to make our industry interesting for future generations and future professionals. And digitalization may be one of those things that will help in that sense, because people are seeing that something cool is happening in this industry. And because we are doing that, we are doing fantastic things in this industry. Think about it. Everything you see around yourself is somebody has constructed it, built it. So we are really important, an important industry. Never mind all these digital virtual realities and metaverses. But still everything happens in the real world. And one more challenge is, of course, that our projects are our project. So they are always a little bit different. And how can we systematize or systemize the processes? How can we become more a little bit more industrialized? I'm not talking about conveyor belt type of industry, but I'm talking about a smarter way to build using A.I. Robots, digital fabrication and so on, to make it flexible but still smart. And I think that is one thing and remembering that we are not talking just about technology, but also maybe we should make our industry more human-centered as so that it's it's not just, let's say, as technical and as brutal as it can be. So a little bit more human touch is needed.

Todd Miller:

:

I like that a lot. And certainly one of the big things that the United States construction industry is facing and really I think this is almost worldwide, is a lack of workers, a lack of workforce, a lack of people wanting to get into our industry. And, you know, it's been a number of years, really. Our industry has been pretty bamboozled by figuring out how do we attract more workers. And so some of the things you alluded to there in terms of, hey, making it a more human touch, bringing more people in that way, I think there's a lot to be said for that.

Seth Heckaman:

:

And I think your story of letting your passions both on the technology and the construction side for 40 years now, both flourish in this industry and getting that story out there and helping people see how flexible and diverse an opportunity for creativity and innovation is just is right here in our industry as well. You know, I was I'm curious to get your feedback on it as someone in a different country and on a different continent. I was at a conference this week. And, you know, one of the challenges that was certainly top of mind with attendees and speakers were addressing were just the unique economic conditions that the world is in right now with coming out of COVID and inflation and all those different dynamics. So I'm curious what that narrative is in Finland and in Europe at the moment, and what butterfly effect do you see coming from, you know, what the current economic conditions and what that could lead to in our industry in the years to come?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Inflation, of course, is a big issue because typically contracts are several years long and the prices that you said on the outset is now it's something totally different. Also, supply chain issues are really bad in some some instances, not just about digital chips, but also other materials. So I just talked to a couple of directors in construction, directors here in Finland and they said that, okay, we are still doing pretty well. But next year is it's a really interesting challenge what will happen. Nobody really knows, to be honest. But of course construction has always been the last two, let's say the last one to suffer from and also the last one to benefit from economic, let's say, growth. But I would say that the uncertainty, what's going to happen, energy is, of course, is one issue. And I see a lot of energy remodeling is taking place in Finland and that has become an issue. Now, how can we save energy and also how can we invest in smarter energy systems and control systems? So I think that technology, again, will come to aid in many ways. But really the prices and energy, those are pain points will be in next year.

Todd Miller:

:

Very interesting, certainly will be interesting to see how it all starts to play out, that's for sure. And so I want to talk a little bit about your podcast, AEC Business, which you've had for a number of years. And I've had the opportunity to listen in on a couple of episodes. And now you certainly have a wide variety of guests, largely from the tech sector. But what is your vision for the podcast? What is it that you are most trying to accomplish through it?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, the practical vision is that I get to talk to so many interesting people, which makes it easy. Otherwise it would be not at all easy. But no, but seriously, my vision is to inspire listeners to look beyond traditional ways of thinking and and start thinking strategically about technology. Because I think that many companies still see technology as something, okay, it's a must-have, but they don't really understand what it means to their, what it means strategically. And that's something I, as a consultant have been doing. They have their, let's say, cash cows and they focus on those. But I have to look it up now because I just read Peter Drucker had a wonderful idea, a wonderful quote. Check to see if you are earning enough profit to cover the cost of capital and provide for innovation. If not, what are you going to do about it? So innovation, that's something that I hope that my podcast will promote and inspire.

Todd Miller:

:

Great answer and great thing to be trying to accomplish. I think that's a lot of what we're trying to do here as well with our podcast. But that Drucker quote is certainly fantastic. I mean, innovation has to be something that a business is planning for and a business is preparing for. If you're short-sighted and not thinking about innovation while everyone else is going to go around you at some point and the world's going to go around you as well. So good stuff. Well, as you think back on your podcast episodes and let's say someone is just tuning into AEC Business for the first time, any particular episodes or guests that really stand out to you or that you would say, hey, go listen to this on? if you're only going to listen to a couple episodes, make sure you listen to these.

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Coincidently, I just did a series of podcast episode for the WDBE conference, and WDBE is the World of Digital Built Environment. It's a summit that takes place next week, by the way. And I'm going to the summit, and I was asked by the organizers to do interviews with the keynote speakers, and I would recommend listening to those because they are thought leaders and every one of them has something new to say. For example, I just interviewed Jacqueline Rohrman. She is a German lady who is known as That BIM Girl on YouTube. She has her own YouTube, very popular YouTube channel. And she's she is an example of a modern professional. She was very interested in BIM and became the BIM manager responsible for design and beam management for the Tesla Gigafactory in Berlin. So, and she tells the story about how when she went there, there was an American team leading the project. But then came COVID, and your president said something about closing your borders and all the Americans flew back home and the Germans had to cope with it. And Jacqueline was one of those who was in charge. And actually she's coming to Helsinki next week. Hopefully I will meet her. So those WDBE recent, most recent episodes are really interesting to listen. And of course there are several others, older episodes, so please go and check them out.

Todd Miller:

:

Very good. Well, we certainly encourage folks to do that. And you know, I had seen the ones that were WDBE and that's what I had listened to and I wasn't quite sure what WDBE was. So that makes a lot more sense now. I kept thinking it sounded like call letters for a radio station or something, so.

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, yeah, could be.

Todd Miller:

:

The world, what was it? What was it again?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

The World of Digital Built Environment.

Todd Miller:

:

Yeah, very good.

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

So that's, it's about not just about construction, but the built environment in general.

Todd Miller:

:

So a lot of our audience members we believe, are younger folks in construction and design. Any particular advice you would have for younger folks in this business to help them lead careers that have a positive impact on our industry?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, I think that nowadays many young people, they actually have a vision, and vision and mission in their lives, which is fantastic. I think that when I was young, we didn't have that. We're just looking for some interesting jobs to do. Yeah, but maybe I would advise them to try to think about how to improve the industry, this industry, so it becomes better for people, of course, for businesses and the environment, and then find the employers and business partners who share their values. Because I think that values are becoming so important in every business nowadays. So and then the other thing that Seth actually pointed out was that don't look into one role, be open to exploring other things as well. So I don't think that any one of us in the future will have just one career, one thing that they will do for for the rest of their lives. So I think that's an important also, I advise people to collaborate with others, other industries and other people in the industry. So that's also, that create connections. Connections are most important things eventually. And I think people together can make miracles happen. So it's all about people eventually.

Todd Miller:

:

Great points there, and I agree with you. I find so often too, the younger generation really has some specific goals and things they want to accomplish. And, you know, back 35, 40 years ago, you're right. For me, it was just about, you know, how do I go out and get into the world and start earning a living? So and this idea you bring up of collaboration is fantastic. I know that we as a company have been heavily involved with some national trade associations over the years, and some of my best relationships and greatest learning points in my career have been through those relationships with competitors, suppliers, customers. So a lot happens that way. Well, Aarni, this has been great. We are coming close to wrapping up at least the business end of things. It's been a pleasure and a privilege to talk with you. Is there anything we haven't covered today that you'd like to share with our audience?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

I don't think really that, of course, we have just scratched the surface of things. So there's so many things that we could talk about for hours, I guess. But your questions were really good and made me also think about what to do next. And it's nice to hear that somebody is listening to my podcast.

Todd Miller:

:

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Well, before we close out, I'm going to ask it. And I realize that English is your third language, but going to ask if you'd be willing to participate in our rapid-fire questions. So these are seven questions, they may be a little silly, some may be a little more serious. All you have to do is, we throw out a question, you give us the first thing that comes to mind for you. And our audience needs to understand, Aarni doesn't have a clue what we're about to ask him if he agrees to this. So are you up to the challenge of trying a few rapid-fire questions here?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Yes. I'm always ready to make a fool of myself.

Todd Miller:

:

You won't at all. Don't worry. No worries. Seth, you want to ask the first one?

Seth Heckaman:

:

Sure. Rapid-fire question number one. If you could try any food that you have never tried before, what would it be?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Bugs.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Interesting.

Todd Miller:

:

Very interesting.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Taking sustainability to a whole nother level.

Todd Miller:

:

Something I also have never intentionally tried. But I have a feeling I've tried it unintentionally a few times. Very good. So if you had your choice, instead of being a human, you could be a dog or a cat. Which would you be?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, that's easy, dog.

Todd Miller:

:

You know, we had that question before, and that was what we all thought. And then someone said, of course, if I was a cat, I wouldn't have to go outside to use the bathroom. I could just go over the corner of the room. And that was a little bit appealing.

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Yeah, yeah. That's good.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Alright, question number three. A little more serious, maybe, maybe not. What is your favorite childhood memory?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Hmm. That was when I was driving alone. I was maybe three years old, and I was left in my dad's car, and I somehow managed to not start the engine but take the brake off and it went downhill and crashed into a tree. So that was my.

Todd Miller:

:

That is quite a memory.

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

So my first driving lesson.

Todd Miller:

:

Question number four, what is your favorite breakfast or breakfast food?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Oatmeal.

Todd Miller:

:

Very good. I like that, too.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Any particular toppings on your oatmeal or just?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, I have some walnuts and maybe some fruit.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Very good.

Todd Miller:

:

Very good.

Seth Heckaman:

:

What is some place you hope to visit someday?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, there are so many places that I haven't visited, but I would probably, I would go to the Antarctic. Yeah, I would love to see that because I know that it's a really harsh place.

Todd Miller:

:

So if someone were to tell you they are going to visit Finland, what are the top three things or places that you would say they really must see when they are visiting Finland?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Well, of course Helsinki is our city and I would love to see them here and especially the old buildings from the time when Finland was actually part of Russia. So those are really interesting. And then of course, the Turku Archipelago is fantastic. The islands there and definitely seeing the Northern Lights in Lapland is a really fantastic experience.

Todd Miller:

:

Oh, I bet. Wow, fantastic. Last question, Seth.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Last question. Are you a morning person or an evening person? Night owl?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

I thought that I was an evening person, but now I've learned that I'm a morning person. I wake up at six at the latest.

Todd Miller:

:

Yeah, I've kind of seen that happen in my life too. I get up earlier than I used to, but I pretty much tap out about 10:00 at night. I'm done. Well, this has been great, Aarni. Thank you so much. I do want to share with our audience our success on our challenge words. We were all successful on our challenge words today. I had the, well I cheated a little bit. I have to confess my challenge word was bamboozle and I actually used bamboozled, so I did cheat a tiny bit. Seth, what was your word?

Seth Heckaman:

:

I had butterfly.

Todd Miller:

:

You did a good job of working that in. I'm kind of need to figure out what the butterfly effect means now. So that was good. And Aarni, you worked yours in. Your word was?

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Cow.

Todd Miller:

:

Cow, you worked.

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Cash cow. I mentioned cash cow, I guess.

Todd Miller:

:

You worked it in well, that was great. Well, thank you. That was fun. Well, thank you again for joining us, Aarni. This has been a blast. Very informative as well. We'd love to have you back some time again, but thank you so much for being with us today.

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Yeah, thank you Todd and Seth. And as I warned, I will invite you to my podcast as well, so you will suffer.

Todd Miller:

:

I'd love to be on it. Throw me some challenge words and rapid-fire questions.

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Yeah, yeah.

Aarni Heiskanen:

:

Todd Miller: Well, and thank you to our audience for tuning in to this episode of Construction Disruption with Aarni Heiskanen of AEC Partners. Please watch out for future episodes of our podcast. We always have great guests on tap. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. Until the next episode, change the world for someone, make them smile, encourage them. Two very simple but yet powerful things you can do to change the world one person at a time. In the meanwhile, God bless, take care. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption.