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Episode 393 - Affirmative Action Vs Adversity Scores
1st August 2023 • The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove • The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove
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In this episode we discuss:

(00:00) 398

(00:43) Intro

(10:31) Global Warming

(14:13) Newscorp and AI

(16:38) Sinead O'Connor

(20:00) Australia USA Relations

(34:34) Trump Polls

(36:46) Indigenous Education

(48:53) Proposition 209

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Transcripts

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Suburban Eastern Australia.

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An environment that has over time evolved some extraordinarily

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unique groups of homo sapiens.

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But today we observe a small tribe akin to a group of Meca that gather together

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atop a small mound to watch question and discuss the current events of their city,

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their country, and their world at large.

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Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known as the

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Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.

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We are back episode 393, the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove Podcast

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where we talk about news and politics and sex and religion.

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I.

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I'm Trevor, a k a, the Iron Fist with me as always, Scott, the Velvet.

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Glove.

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Good day, Trevor.

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Good day, Joe.

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Good day listeners.

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I hope everyone's

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well.

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We're all well and Joe the tech guy.

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Evening.

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All right.

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So yes, another episode.

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What are we gonna talk about tonight?

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What's been going on in Australia and around the world?

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Let me see.

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We're gonna be talking about, just a quick mention about global warming,

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a little bit about AI News Corp.

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Richard Miles defense minister.

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A bit about, indigenous education and a little bit about

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California and Proposition 2 0 9, I think it was, what was it?

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California was Proposition 2 0 9, which was when they removed affirmative

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action and replaced it with.

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He's sort of a diversity score, so, or no, an adversity score.

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So we talk about that.

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Alright, if you are listening on your podcast app, you'll see chapters

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don't like any of those topics.

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You can skip over 'em and you'll see pictures occasionally with the chapters.

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'cause sometimes there's some graphs or some charts.

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So you'll see those Thanks to Nick at Izzy.

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Hello Nick who listens occasionally before we get onto stuff, got contacted.

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Remember I said that Liam, one of our listeners, gets

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frustrated with Scott because he.

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Who poos the greens that in reality probably should be voting for them.

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And, and it's quite dismissive of them.

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Shouldn't be voting for them.

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It's quite dismissive of them without good reason.

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It was felt by Liam and others probably no doubt.

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So, I suggested Liam should have a debate with you and he, he got in contact

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and said, yeah, that's a good idea.

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So Scott, he's emailed you with some topics and thoughts and hopefully next

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week he'll come on and you'll have to justify this obstinate position you have

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for no good reason against the greens.

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I've got some very good reasons.

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We'll see how good they are.

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That'll be fine.

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Yeah,

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exactly.

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And you know, it's, it's like in his email and all that sort of stuff, I

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don't disagree with a hell of a lot.

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He is written there, but yes, there's just one overriding

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reason why I can't trust them.

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So anyway, I'll leave that till next week.

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Oh, okay.

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Well what's the one, what's the one overriding reason?

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Just remind us.

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Don't have to give a secret.

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It's all open.

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Okay.

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Alright, that's fine.

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We wanna a full and frank

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discussion here.

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Alright, well what's the one, what's the

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one overriding reason?

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They are the party of protest and you know, you have only have to look at

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the way they're two elder statesmen, Bob Brown and what's her name?

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They're woman that took over after he left Christine Mill.

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Right.

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You know, the way the two of them hold up protestors, like they're some

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sort of sacrosanct person that can't be ever criticized or anything else.

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And you know, I tend to agree with them over their opposition

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to the state governments that are trying to crack down on protesters.

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But surely protest is something that's only temporary and.

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While I agreed with, a lot of the climate change protests that were

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actually going on, you know, the sort of infantile manner in which they blocked

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traffic and did that type of thing.

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I honestly believe that that sort of protest, it's just

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designed to piss people off.

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It's really sticks in people's throat and it doesn't do anything.

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So that sort of protest, I can understand why the state government

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wants to crack down on that.

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You know, the Adani coal mine disaster was an absolute fucking joke, and that was

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Bob Brown that was actually pushing that.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know, now that was an absolute disaster for the

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Labor Party because the greens.

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Were asked not to do it.

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They went around, gave the middle finger back to them and said,

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no, we're gonna do it anyway.

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So they drove their electric vehicles up through, set up

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through Central Queensland.

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And

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so their main reason is you feel I have an infantile style of

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protesting, which is counterproductive.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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They do.

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Does that it in a nutshell, that's it in a

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nutshell, and part of it is already starting to creep into Parliament with

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Max Chandler, whatever his name is.

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You know, it's What did he do?

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Infantile in Parliament.

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Well, okay.

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It's just the whole process that they're saying that we've got to, you know,

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they, they've, they've blocking, they're blocking Labor's policy on housing.

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Mm-hmm.

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They're blocking it because the, the Labor Party will not let them have a

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rent freeze and that type of thing.

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They're refusing to listen to anything.

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They're just demanding

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rent freezes.

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Blocking it once, got 'em an extra $2 billion.

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Well, no.

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Got him an extra $2 billion, but that's nothing, you know,

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it's one of those things.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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They blocked it once, but now it's blocked and they, they're

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now gonna block it again.

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And what's the point, you know, all it's done is given the, is given the

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government, the double dissolution trigger, which they probably

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won't pull because they've bet everything on the, voice referendum.

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So I don't think that they'd be stupid enough to go in for, I don't think

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they'd be stupid enough to also go in for a double dissolution while that

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was on the, on the table, because they're probably gonna lose that.

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So I don't think they're gonna actually do that.

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But would it really matter if they did actually take

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them apart on housing policy?

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No, I don't think it

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would.

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Alright.

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If that's the, that's your main complaint against the greens

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is the, the style of infantile?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Productive protest.

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Mm-hmm.

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Okay.

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Well that'll give Liam something to work with.

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Yeah, no, you,

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you, you setting me up for failure, which is fine.

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No, I'm just saying he's got, giving him something to work with.

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That's now he knows your position more clearly.

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He can try and convince you despite you.

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Well, he can try, but he's going to fail because I'm not interested.

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Oh,

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was it, was it with you the other day?

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I can't remember where this happened, where I, I had to admit

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that I don't think I've ever changed anybody's mind on anything.

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Was it, were we doing that live on this podcast or was that in

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private at a pizza function?

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I can't remember, but,

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well, that was probably at the, pub when we were there on Saturday, weren't they?

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Yeah.

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Just like, I really can't remember changing somebody's mind.

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So, Liam, in all the years I've been doing this podcast and all the arguments

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I've made and the 50,000 downloads or whatever it is, I really don't know

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that I've changed anybody's mind.

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On anything, if they were had a firm opinion, if they were a bit 50 50

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and were ready to be swayed, okay.

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I might have tipped somebody one way or another, but I don't know that

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I've actually turned somebody around.

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So in a significant way, Trevor, what's your best

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evidence for that?

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Because,

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' cause nobody's ever told me, nobody's

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Maybe they've surely they would if they had, here's your chance in the chat room.

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Have I changed?

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Have I ever changed your mind on anything?

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Mind ranting John.

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He agrees with, he agrees that the Velvet

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Glove on that one, so that's fine.

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So,

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Shay's there.

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Good day, Shay.

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How are you?

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Yeah.

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Shay's there as well.

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Shay.

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Shay felt that a lot of my arguments, while logically correct,

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fail to take into account the passion and the emotion of people.

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And because you're soulless.

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Well, I was thinking, I was thinking of it, Shane.

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Just, just call me Mr.

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Spock.

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Is that, is that, is that the argument, Shane?

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That it's a,

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it's a Mr.

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Spock.

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I don't think Mr.

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Spock would actually be opposed to Ukraine actually fighting back, you know?

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Oh, well that's another one we can argue about.

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Dan, Dan in the chat room says, have you ever turned anyone?

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Well, that's a very leading question.

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Yeah.

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Not that, not in that way, Don.

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not in that way.

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Yeah.

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So look,

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that's enough chitchat.

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Fair enough.

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We're quite confronting, Shay, you know, I, I'm gonna deal with

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that, that accusation over time.

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You've cut me deep with that one.

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Hang on.

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You're saying you feel that Yeah, I do.

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I do feel it, and Mr.

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Spock wouldn't feel it.

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Right.

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So there you go.

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No, Mr.

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Spock is actually half human, half Vulcan, so he still has some part

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of him with his human Yeah.

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He understands human emotion.

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He just presses them.

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He understands and just works with it.

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Mm.

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He says, well, of course you're gonna charge off over that hill

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madly without even thinking about it.

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Off you going, I, I know you're gonna do that.

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Maybe I, maybe he'll occasionally apply one of those Vulcan grips to sort of knock

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Kirk out to stop him from hurting himself.

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But otherwise he, he's sort of fully aware of human nature

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and just takes it into account.

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Anyway.

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Yeah.

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Yeahing out anybody out there if I've changed your mind on

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anything of significance anyway,

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you have changed my mind over China, but I'm still disagreeing with you over

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Taiwan because the Republic of China is an independent country and should be left

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alone.

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Mm-hmm.

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Okay, let's talk about, oh, I had these in the wrong order, but let's talk

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quickly about what's been in the news lately and I reckon, global warming.

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Yeah.

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In the news lately was no, doesn't know exist.

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No, no, it doesn't exist.

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So there's a chart showing, the temperature in a red line for 2023,

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which is way past what the last, and, and all those gray lines are basically

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temperatures since the 1940s every year.

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And the colored lines are recent years.

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The red one is the current 2023.

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Clearly we are, a couple of degrees higher than we were 80 years ago

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and or, yeah, about eight years ago.

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And, you know, stories coming out of Europe with incredibly hot summer and.

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Hi.

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Many events happening, it's all just gonna get worse, and I can't see anything being

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done of any significance to change it.

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And, you know, at 59 years of age, I turn later this month,

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give me another 20 on this planet.

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I'll probably not see the worst of it, I'd say.

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But, it's the younger people who are going to be paying the

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price and it's gonna get ugly.

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And I, I'm

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curious as to how they calculate the global temperature.

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I think they've got a, a statistical bias of, weather stations

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in the Northern Hemisphere.

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Mm-hmm.

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Because of course, in the southern hemisphere it's winter and therefore

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you'd think that the warmer day would be assuming the same number of stations

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north and south of the, the equator, that you'd get kind of a, a, a permanent

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balance.

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Wouldn't it just be an average of all of the surface temperatures over the globe?

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Yeah.

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What I'm saying is on average, they're two, two degrees higher.

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Oh, no, no.

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But if you look at it, it's 17 degrees.

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Oh, I see what you're saying.

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Of the, well, our global surface air temperature, I guess on the oceans.

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I, I'm just thinking that, you know, maybe we've got half a million stations

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north of the equator and, a quarter of a million south of the equator

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just because there's less land mass.

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Mm-hmm.

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I don't know, Joe, I,

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I would've expected the average to be lower, is what I'm saying.

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Oh, I see.

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Lower than 17 degrees.

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Yeah.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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I assume the statistic, the guardian grew up because Yeah.

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If

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you look 1st of January, average temperature 13 degrees, 31st of

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December, 13 degrees, middle of June.

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Or middle of July 17 degrees.

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Mm.

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So it's obviously fo following a northern hemisphere heat cycle.

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Hmm, good point.

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Yeah.

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Just curious.

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Mm-hmm.

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Well, that's, yeah, that's

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clearly, it's clearly something that they've taken from the

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northern hemisphere, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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Mm.

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But it does say global.

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Mm-hmm.

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Good point, Joe.

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We'll look into that statistic.

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Hmm.

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See what the story is.

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Okay.

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Well, it'd be interesting to see what the,

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what the, data was from the Southern hemisphere.

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Wouldn't it?

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You'd assume that it'd be higher in December and January, but lower in July.

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We'll see what the explanation is for that one, but yeah.

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May.

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Yeah.

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Point.

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Jane, you're right.

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North and south, equaled out.

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Should be.

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Yeah.

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Hello?

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Somebody sent us some, spam.

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Spam and he's really going for it.

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Glorious.

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Spam.

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Spam.

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Spam.

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Alright, onto the first topic.

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well that was global warming.

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AI is in the news a lot.

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Scott, are you using any AI in your day-to-day work?

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No, I'm not.

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Mm.

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Joe, are you sorry, using ai?

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Right.

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So I get the feeling, people are using it to construct initial emails,

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which they then massage or maybe reports or things they have to do.

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They want something to start, give them a head start on something

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that's typical use of ai.

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using it to clean up things.

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Maybe they've prepared a report or an email that they want sort of the

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grammar checked or just tightened up.

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So, anyway, from the shovel, they've, they've done some investigative work and

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News Corp Australia revealed this week they're using artificial intelligence

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to generate 3000 articles a week.

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That's actually true.

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So they admitted that they're doing that and they're saying that it's

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sort of overseen by real people, but a lot of stuff is generated.

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3000 articles a week.

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The News Corp generated by AI and, the shovel claims they were leaked.

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A chat G p t screenshot showing the prompts used to write one of the articles.

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This is the real skill I think, Joe, with, AI and Chat G P T is the prompts

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that you ask for the little recipe that you use to get what you want.

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Mm-hmm.

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And, this is apparently what people are using in News Corp.

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For example, write an article about how wokeness is causing

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inflation in Australia.

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Must include the words.

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African gangs cancel culture, Anzac spirit, young people

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just don't wanna work anymore.

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And it's not racist because Muslim is not a race.

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The article must also link rising inflation to the increase in the

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number of gender neutral toilets.

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Demonize a prominent Australian woman for speaking her mind

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without asking permission.

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Include three entire paragraphs on the A, B, C.

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Use the word elitist unironically when referring to people who criticize

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mining and media billionaires and include a wildly inaccurate pie chart.

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I think they also left out, must somehow criticize Credit Thunberg along the way.

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So I think that, I think that's actually how they probably

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are producing them in there.

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Hmm.

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Scott Ade O'Connor, were you a fan?

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She passed away.

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Well, I knew she died and all that sort of stuff.

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I couldn't work out how she died.

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No.

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because she apparently became a Muslim and all that sort of stuff later in life.

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Mm-hmm.

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So, Assume she was not a well woman.

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I assume that,

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sorry.

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Said she was not a well woman.

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Yeah, I

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know.

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And I knew she had been institutionalized and all that sort of stuff throughout

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her life, so I thought to myself, maybe she might've topped herself

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with drugs or something like that.

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But they, the family has, has not given a cause of death.

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So it's purely just speculation

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as to how she actually died.

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Seems to be when that's not revealed that the assumption

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is it's something like that.

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Yeah.

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So on the plus side in 1992, she ripped up a picture of John Paul, a Pope John

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Paul II on US television in protest against the pedophile church officials.

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A week later, she was booed off the stage at Madison Square Garden during

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an all-star tribute to Bob Dylan.

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The crowd didn't like her, ripping up a picture of the Pope.

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So

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that was before, spotlight.

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Yeah.

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You've seen the movie?

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Yes.

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Probably at the time people thought, what are you talking about?

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It couldn't possibly be pedophilia in the Catholic church.

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What terrible thing to suggest.

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Mm.

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You know, what, if it pop started today, probably still protest

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and get booed off the stage.

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Why accept the truth?

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Don't

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know.

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Actually,

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I think

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there'd be a very different sort of behavior now because we've,

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you know, everyone's accepted it that it is a fact of life

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that,

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the priesthood is fi full of kitty fiddlers.

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So as a result, I, I think to myself that they, they don't have any, any leg to

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stand on Really.

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Yeah.

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But in America, Trump is still leading the polls.

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Yeah.

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With all that's going on.

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So it doesn't matter that Yes, the, the Catholic church is guilty of pedophilia.

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There would still be, people will be going.

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Well, we're still to vote for him.

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You can't do that.

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You can't abuse our, our religion even.

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That's, that's the, to do with the primaries, isn't it?

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This is where he is got the

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Gallup leading, isn't it?

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Well, he is leading the Republican primaries.

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Yeah.

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But if there was a vote today on the current polls, he would win.

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Really?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Well, that's a concern.

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Yeah.

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So who knows what would happen if, if a pop star abused the Catholic church

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in the anything's possible in that country, but on the, sort of, on the

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minor side, in 2018, she converted to Islam, calling it the natural conclusion

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of any intelligent theologian's journey.

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There we go.

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God knows how.

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Mm-hmm.

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You trouble we

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saw, we never saw her wearing a hijab or anything like that, did

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we?

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No.

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There are photos of her wearing hijab.

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Oh, there are other, okay.

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Is, and she changed her name as

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well.

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Mm-hmm.

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And this is kind of the point that somebody made, is that in Western media,

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the photos that have come out of her are all, all ignore that aspect of her life.

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Mm-hmm.

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Mm-hmm.

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And perhaps a sign of just a western, bias, if you like.

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Fair point.

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Mm-hmm.

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closer to home Australia, u s a relations.

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So it was announced that U Ss a spies are now gonna be embedded

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in our defense force to help us.

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that was how it was originally reported by the A, B, C.

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And then they changed the headline shortly afterwards to call it u

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s A analysts rather than spies.

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But hey.

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Spies embedded in our defense force.

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'cause heaven forbid, analysts Yes, heaven forbid we couldn't possibly do it ourself.

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And we,

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and I thought it was a s d they were being embedded in

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mm-hmm.

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A s d Australian

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Signals Directorate.

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It's the same as the N Ss a.

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Okay.

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Is that part of defense?

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It is.

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So they monitor

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enemy communications.

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Yeah.

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So let's just have another country's, you know, well, we've already got

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patriotic citizens within our own.

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We've already got

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what's said, haven't we?

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What's the huge N s A

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gap?

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Post pine gap.

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Yeah.

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At least, at least with that, it's theirs and they run it.

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And we don't even pretend, but Well, but having them wandering

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around our own corridors, snooping around on our behalf sake.

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Five.

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Five Fires was all about spying on your own citizens, which

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of course is against the law.

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So you get another country to do it on your behalf and pass you the information

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they've found and you do it for them.

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Ah, I see.

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I can hear.

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And that's exactly

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what they do.

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They've got the British, that spy on the Americans and the Canadian

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Spy on the Americans, you know, over here probably the ki we spy on us.

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We spy on them.

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Hmm.

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Anyway, it's just ludicrous to have U Ss a spies embedded within our own apparatus.

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It's insane.

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we're gonna make some missiles to sell to them apparently.

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I dunno how we're gonna suddenly acquire the skills to make missiles,

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but we're gonna make missiles to sell to the US and well, I thought

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that was what, URA was all about.

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It was a missile test range down in, south Australia.

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I.

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Yeah, but that where we making

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that, we tested the, that's where we tested the British A bomb,

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wasn't it?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, next door to that was a missile test range, and I thought that was for testing

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Australian missiles that we'd built.

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Okay, well we're gonna be building some for the Yanks and Okay.

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that's, you know, supposed to be happy about that and excited because there's

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a shortage of ammunition now as the war in Ukraine has apparently shown.

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And, despite all that, when we ask the US, Hey, what about Julian Assange over

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there rotting way in Bel Marsh Prison?

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You reckon you could let him go?

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Where they say, oh, there's a risk to security and, you know, we have our own

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interests there, and, you'll just have to understand there's nothing we can do and

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our authentic Australian government just

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rolls over.

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He's, he's rotting in a British

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prison, isn't he?

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Bel Ma is British.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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' cause he hasn't been extradited yet.

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Okay, so the, the Britts are arguing about his extradition in the courts, are they?

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Well, it's an appeal appeal process at the moment.

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So

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yeah.

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They'd agreed that he could be extradited and then yes,

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obviously this is the appeals.

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He has to exhaust his appeals because he said effectively, he's committed no crime.

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Yes.

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Well, what's more, it was supposedly a US crime and he wasn't in US territory.

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Well, supposedly

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he was arrested for a

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Swedish crime.

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Mm-hmm.

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But the reason why the Yanks want him extradited is for a US crime.

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Yes.

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Which he supposedly committed, even though he wasn't in US territory

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and, and wasn't a US citizen.

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Correct.

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When you talk about the, the long reach of the Chinese police state,

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and here we've got the Yanks.

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Grabbing an Australian citizen outta Britain was supposedly

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committing a breach of a law.

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And he was never in the u s a.

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It's extraordinary.

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I, I was listening to a podcast about a Russian citizen getting picked

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up 'cause he was wanted for hacking and he eventually got, oh, I can't

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remember what country he was in, but basically he got arrested there

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and they were going to expel him.

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And effectively, as soon as they expelled him, the F b I were

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waiting in the country to grab him and extradite him to the US Right.

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Or, sorry, not extradite him.

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'cause they had no extradition treaty to grab him, put him on a

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private jet, fly him back to the US

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and, and get details out of him or, oh, this was credit

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card fraud.

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Right.

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Okay.

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So he was, he was wanted for, selling.

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Millions of credit card.

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Mm.

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On the black market.

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Yeah.

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So Bernard Keen in Crike wrote an article about Richard Miles and, and linked with

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this whole sort of Julian Assange and, and our relationship with the U s A.

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So, so we had a recent visit from Anthony Blinken, US Secretary of State.

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And according to Bernard Keen and Crikey, Anthony Blinken is a liar to be specific.

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His statement at the weekend that Julian Assange's actions in leaking

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the US cables, quote, risked very serious harm to our national security.

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So that is what the allegation is from Blinken, that what Assange did risked very

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serious harm to our national security.

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It it did, it made them look like idiots.

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Yes.

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That's the only harm it did was just embarrass them.

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Yes.

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So, So what we've got is Bernard Keen lists some of the evidence that

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there was actually no genuine harm to US security, just embarrassment.

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And he's got four points to make that sort of along that argument.

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He says, this was a Barack Obama's defense secretary at the time, Robert M.

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Gates said, I've heard the impact of these releases on our foreign

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policy described as a meltdown, as a game changer, and so on.

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I think, I think those descriptions are fairly significantly overwrought.

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The fact is governments deal with the United States because it's in

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their interest, not because they like us, not because they trust

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us, and not because they believe.

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We can keep secrets.

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Other nations will continue to deal with us.

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They'll continue to work with us.

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We will continue to share sensitive information with one another.

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Is this embarrassing?

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Yes.

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Is it awkward?

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Yes.

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Consequences for US foreign policy, I think fairly modest.

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That was the defense secretary.

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Then the Department of Defense in a secret report obtained by Buzzfeed in

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2017 said there was no significant impact.

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disclosure of the Iraq data set will have no direct personal impact on current and

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former leadership, US leadership in Iraq.

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The third proof was, officials of Lincoln's Department of Briefing Congress

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in 2010 and said, we were told the impact of the WikiLeaks revelations

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was embarrassing but not damaging.

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And at the trial of Chelsea Manning, the US military officials said,

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I don't have a specific example.

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When asked to confirm the much of wanted claim that the releases had placed

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the lives of US sources in danger.

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So, and of course it's been pardoned.

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Yes, yes.

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So the US government itself, on multiple occasions has said

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it's embarrassing, but no.

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Significant damage has been done.

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He's a journalist releasing information.

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and now this week, labor government, albanese and Miles

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just don't see the greens.

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Wouldn't stand for

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it.

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The

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Yes.

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Liam, jot that down.

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Or probably Scott maybe doesn't care that much.

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I don't know.

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Do you, you care about, you have a strong opinion about Bil Assange?

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No, I, his predicament, Scott didn't

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say strong, but I, I think he's been in prison long enough.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know, it's, it, it's one of those things.

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And, and you're not outraged.

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yes and no.

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I, I just think to myself that he did something bloody stupid.

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He poked the bear or he poked the eagle and you know, now he's complaining

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'cause the eagle's bitten his

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stupid or brave.

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Definitely valuable.

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Well, of course it was valuable

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because you know, that that, that footage that was released in the us over

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the us you know, collateral damage or whatever it was

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called when they shot up, when they shot up those three guys in, in, in that Iraqi

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place, multiple, multiple war crimes have been exposed.

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Yes, yes.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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So I've got no problem with that.

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And I also think to myself that, he's been awarded a international

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prize for journalism, hasn't he?

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Mm-hmm.

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Various one.

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Yes.

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So that means that, the Yanks can't prosecute him because he's a journalist.

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Well, yank can do whatever they like, don't they?

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Yeah, I know

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that.

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I know that's what

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they

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try to do.

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I'm just, I'm just, I'm just interested.

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Joe, are you outraged?

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You're not saying I'm outraged you.

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Ah, I'm just appalled by it.

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I am appalled by it.

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And, come on.

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Even barnyard joke is appalled by it.

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Barnyard joke.

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Barnaby Choice.

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Yes.

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Oh, Barnaby Joyce, right?

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Yeah.

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It's, it's one, one

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of the most outspoken politicians.

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Mm-hmm.

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Mm.

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Yeah.

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Apparently one of the WikiLeaks early on was about Richard Miles.

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So the US diplomats had meetings with him and there was a cable that

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was released by, WikiLeaks from 2009 that, revealed that in the opinion

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of the us he was a non-entity.

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Yes.

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And that he was overwhelmed and was an under informed parliamentary secretary.

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And, at the time, miles said he wanted Australia to depend

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less on commodity exports.

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When asked what other areas he'd like to see exports grow, he

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couldn't think of any, said he had to keep reading the material.

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so according to Bernard, keen Miles has hated WikiLeaks ever since.

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'cause it exposed this terrible opinion that the US had of Richard Miles.

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So, it's not that fault.

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Might be something to that.

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yeah.

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what else would the other thing in that, it's just still on Richard Miles, in

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that, in that release from WikiLeaks somewhere, I've got too much time.

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My hands, 'cause I saw the link in Bernard Keen's article and I

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thought, huh, have a quick link look.

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So I was looking at the, at the, leaked report.

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And one of the interesting things in there was, well, I found this interesting.

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Was that, in talking with the Consul General, Richard Miles said that, he has a

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very close relationship with Joe De Bruin, the shop distributor and Allied Employees

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Association, national Secretary, i e the Shoppes, who we all know are this crazy

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religious union that has been the, a major problem for everybody because they've

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been very socially conservative and, yeah,

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but they're communists.

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Come on.

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They,

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they're, they're unions.

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Well, a very, Christian, conservative union, Shoppes, who

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by the way don't represent their members very well at all, and.

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are powerful because they have so many members.

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Like there's lots of people working for Coles and Woolies, but they actually

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get really poor results for them.

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If sha

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I'm sure the Red Union will stand up for them.

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The bread union, I'll tell you what one the red unions, you know?

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Yeah.

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Oh.

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So, nurses and teachers in particular, this is a former member of the L N

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P who set up these private unions that aren't registered as unions.

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There's some weird loophole, I don't know.

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and they're taking membership fees that are half what the existing unions are and

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they go on about how they're wonderful.

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But people have said they're more likely to, bend over to employees.

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It was, it was mostly the anti-vaxxers.

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It was very much freedom of a choice about

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vaccines.

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So the setup unions, which won't actually collectively bargain, but will.

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Because of discounted union due will take people away from a real

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union that will act for them.

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That's what the

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allegations have been.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Have, have a look at red

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unions.

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It's quite interesting.

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Okay.

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anyway, the Shopee, notoriously poor performers for their people

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are supposed to represent.

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if Shay was in charge, I'm sure they'd get a much better deal anyway.

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So yeah.

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Richard Miles doing nothing for, Julian Assange, possibly angry

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because Wiki leaks exposed that the Americans had a low opinion of him.

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And just add to your little kitbag of knowledge about Richard Miles that

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he's in sweep with the Shoppy Union.

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And that's not a good sign.

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I don't think.

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So.

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More I learned about the current labor mob, the, less hope I have.

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yeah, John's in the chat room.

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He's a labor man.

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He says the shop union is not a union as far as I'm concerned, and Allison says,

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I'm outraged at the treatment of Julian.

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Good on you, Allison.

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And, Shay says, can't prosecute can persecute.

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And, and Allison says, I highly recommend Nils Mills's book

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The Trial of Julian Assange.

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Nils was the United Nations Special Rapporteur on torture.

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And there we go.

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That's the main ones.

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See?

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and Robin's there, D and Whatley, there's a host of the usual suspects.

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Are there probably Allison's mom and Bev's listening as well.

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Alright.

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Almost.

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Yeah, almost certainly.

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Trump, polls I mentioned previously about Trump and how well he's going.

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And here's one just on Trump and why he's so hard to beat.

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And essentially there is amongst Republicans, a 37% mugger base

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that just cannot be shifted.

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There's a 37 persuadable component of which, 17% lean Trump, 12%

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lean, others 17% favor DeSantis.

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And out of these sort of Republican, people, there's really only 25%

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that are just not open to Trump.

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So 37% base, 37% persuadable, and only 25% never Trumpers.

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That's a, that's a really worryingly low figure.

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The scary thing is the allegations that.

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If Trump gets in for a second term, he has, people have been saying, and they're

Speaker:

going because they've said it, they're gonna claim that's a mandate if he gets

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elected, that he intends to use executive orders to dismantle all of the safeguards

Speaker:

that are in place to stop the president.

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assuming power.

Speaker:

Yes.

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You know, it's one arm of the three arms of government.

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and he intends to supersede all the other, go the arms and make it effectively

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a dictatorship.

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Yes.

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And fairly important people in this camp have been openly

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admitting that this is their plan.

Speaker:

Wouldn't doubt it.

Speaker:

The guy's such a loose cannon with nothing to lose, everything to gain.

Speaker:

Of course.

Speaker:

He's just, what's, of course he will.

Speaker:

I, I think

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worry to have an accident.

Speaker:

It would be in the benefit of most of the world.

Speaker:

Not just the don't go driving, don't go driving past any

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grassy knolls, is that exactly.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

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Allison's, I, I actually

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wonder if there really is a deep state how he hasn't had an accident.

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Mm-hmm.

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Allison was at the Grassy Knolls.

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He's been there.

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Seemed recall.

Speaker:

I've

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been there too.

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Have you?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Indigenous education.

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I spoke last week about culture and I've got this article that I was gonna do last

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week and we sort of ran outta time, so just gonna read this one and, there's a

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fair bit to it, but see what you think.

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Did you guys get a chance to read this one or not?

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Yeah, I read it whenever you first sent it through.

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Okay.

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Did you find it concerning at all, Joe?

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I, I think I'll let you read it first,

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but yes.

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Okay.

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Alright.

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First Nations educators are clear.

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They want their own system of education.

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That's the main message to come out of a landmark report released today

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by more than 51st Nations educators at RA ppa, an annual black only education

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conference just east of Alice Springs.

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The MK Turner report offers guiding principles, structures, and

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recommendations on what makes a First Nations system of education and what

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is required to roll it out nationwide.

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Here's what it looks like in practice.

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Understanding the difference in a standard school day.

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A typical school day for a child in the Western education system might

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be a car drop off, roll call, class one, recess, class two and three,

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lunch, class four, pick up, home give, we'll take a bit of sport and music.

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It's heavy on numbers, big on literacy, and all done in English.

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A First Nations model looks very different every day begins with

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first language in one community.

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The school day might start with a bus pickup for both children and parents.

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Kids greeted in the language of their country and they travel to

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school with family and community.

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They don't have to travel 50 kilometers, to go to a brick

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building that's not welcoming.

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They get to go to a hub box or a space that they know, can.

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Gary Woman, Stacey Campton, director of First Nations Education

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Organization, children's Ground tells Crikey, rewriting how important

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it's for a child to be immediately understand that they are welcome.

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A shared meal might come next alongside a lesson on nutrition and health,

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or it could be an hour of singing, dancing, and another cultural ceremony.

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All done in first language and first language only kids could

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help teachers pack the bus for a trip out on country where they're

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taught to Hunt, dig and identify bush foods they can and can't eat.

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It's a morning of experiential learning and play.

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Classroom style teaching might feature later in the day, but first Nations

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education consultant, Gabriel Lare woman, auntie Julie Armstrong, explains that

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this is all done through the First Nations lens of language, culture, and country.

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The most important thing she says is for indigenous kids to know

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that they come from the land.

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As this provides context for everything connection to people,

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elders, identity, and aboriginal law.

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You take the time to open your eyes and see what's around you.

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You would take the time to smell.

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You could then join in song with what's around, and it would be sung in language.

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Armstrong says, To really have a purposeful life, you

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need to have energy, she says.

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And to get that energy is about putting your feet and stomping on the ground.

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The full sensory experience, sight, smell, sound, taste, and touch is

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critical for indigenous peoples to understand the spirit and soul of

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language, country, people and self.

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Quote, why we haven't reached our potential is because we've been

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trapped within these four walls and a roof and a curriculum which can only

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work between four walls and a roof.

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She says The founding chair of children's ground, a rane man, William

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Till mouth calls it a simulation.

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He says, learning without family, community, country, language

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and identity is a recipe to lose yourself because you don't know

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who you are and where you're from.

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there's a lady Armstrong, I'm gonna try and skip a little bit here

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'cause I feel it's going on too long.

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why do you need a classroom?

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People have to love our children.

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Now you listen to educators, I don't hear that word often within

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this space or within that space.

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Armstrong says, reiterating that the message that rises above the

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rest is all of our kids are failing.

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That's what we as a nation are told.

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Our kids are behind.

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They're behind the benchmarks, they're behind this.

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I wouldn't have any of that language.

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It's a similar story for Gamma Roy Woman.

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and she says, apart from still having to adhere to learning

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metrics such as no plan, the curriculum is set by mob for mob.

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And she says, her school stands apart from the academic heavy curriculum

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that dominates Western education by privileging culture that is inherently

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humble, caring, and nurturing.

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And which allows for support of the whole child.

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Our kids, they know we love them and we are looking out for them,

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she says, and that in itself just makes a huge difference to the

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teaching and learning of our school.

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And the last bit here is why a teacher doesn't equal a piece of paper in

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the Western system of education.

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No child, adult, or elder qualifies as a teacher unless they possess

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a certificate of accreditation.

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Mout says that metric overlooks the 60,000 plus years of knowledge, expertise, and

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lived experience that makes an aboriginal teacher because you're fluent in language,

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because you're fluent in culture and identity and country, but you don't have

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a certificate, you're not considered to be worthy of being called a teacher.

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He says they do six years of university, but aboriginal people, our old people

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have done 70, 80 years of living under oppression and in extreme circumstances,

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And if they haven't learned something, then you know, I'll go, ah, well,

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I don't see any of them, any of them ever graduating on to go onto

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university to become a, a doctor.

Speaker:

I, I, I think if you're trying to teach people how to live as hunter-gatherers,

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then learning to live off the land and your 60,000 years of culture might be

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useful if you want them to succeed in a western culture, in a western, well,

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not even western, but the rest of the world if you want to them to succeed

Speaker:

The 21st century trading Yeah, exactly.

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Trading with Asia, then they have to be fluent in arithmetic.

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I, I, I fully understand and empathize.

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I, I think kids should spend more time outside.

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I don't see why you can't have, lessons out in the bush.

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You can certainly have science.

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You can have mathematics out in the bush.

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You can be doing useful things, not stuck in a classroom whilst, whilst

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learning real measurable things.

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but yeah.

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Yeah.

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But I honestly believe that, you know, the whole criticism of NAPLAN and

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all that sort of stuff now, you know, it's been years since I've been in

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a classroom, obviously, but I don't even fully understand what NAPLAN is.

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But I gather it's some type of, test that kids are required to do.

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Okay, that's fine.

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But you know, if you're going to have an indigenous school set up exactly

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the way they're talking about, then those kids are just gonna keep failing.

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NAP plan.

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You know, it's,

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I don't, I totally, the reading that does not give me hope that

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those kids are gonna be prepared for the wider modern day society.

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No, they're not.

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No.

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And

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you know, the, the, the elders in that sort of stuff are just

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wanting to always look backwards.

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And this is why one of the things that I really am very critical of the voice

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campaigning is that, you know, they, they talk about getting voice then after that,

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going onto the truth and reconciliation, which honestly doesn't worry me, but

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there's gotta be truth from both sides.

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And that is that they are going to have to accept that their

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society wasn't all peaceful.

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You know, that it wasn't all, it wasn't all, light and love.

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You know, it's just one of those things that I honestly believe that we've

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gotta get the truth from both sides.

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Well, John I think said this would be after school activities and certainly,

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I have colleagues at work whose children are half Chinese and they

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go to Chinese school on the weekend.

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My daughter went to French school on the weekend, which was all about

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learning the language, learning the culture, and this was all after school.

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and in fact, Queensland Education provides, languages

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other than English syllabus.

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They provide the syllabus written in English, and then the schools

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translated into whatever language.

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So there is a full.

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Here's how to learn about culture.

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So, you know, one, one lesson is the kitchen and you have a drawing of

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objects around the kitchen and you translate it into whatever language.

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And then you say, in our culture, this is what we'd be cooking.

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Mm-hmm.

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but this is all after school.

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This is all out of ours.

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And this is, this is, you're learning English because that is the

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language of business in Australia.

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Mm-hmm.

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That's what you're learning at school.

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You're learning mathematics because you need that for business in

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Australia to fit into society.

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That's what you need.

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If you know, if you're gonna educate the kids that way then, and don't be

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surprised or complain when 20 years later the, the proportion of kids at

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university or in difficult jobs or any jobs doesn't match the wider population.

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Because you've given them an upbringing that doesn't match the wider population.

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So don't expect to give that sort of upbringing and yet, and yet tick

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off a whole bunch of metrics because you just, that's not how it works.

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Yeah, I agree.

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Just stop giving respect to this nonsense.

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but yeah, the, the thing about the kids having energy and it Mm,

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they're not settling down in class.

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Mm.

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I definitely empathize with that.

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I know that, years ago in scouts, we always had sports at the

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beginning, of the evening, just so we got all the energy out.

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'cause we were all hyped up.

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It was a Friday evening, we'd got an hour of chalk rugby or whatever, beating

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the shit out of each other basically.

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Yes.

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And then we got down to map reading because if you tried to do that first

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up, the kids just wouldn't sit still.

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Yes.

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And, and so maybe school has become too formalized in that

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way and maybe we need to burn off a little of the energy upfront.

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Yeah.

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I don't know what goes on in a modern school and how often

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they get outta the classroom.

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I don't know.

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But

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well then you can always say, always hope you've got students like me that

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hated getting outta the classroom.

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'cause I thought it was boring and a waste of time.

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But anyway.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Alright.

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that's education according to those indigenous educators.

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right.

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Came across, I was listening to a podcast, called Pivot, which was

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kind of interesting and, It, referred me on to this, in California.

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So in 1996, dear listener, Californian voters approved Proposition 2 0

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9, which was a ban on affirmative action at public universities.

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So up until that point, there had been some affirmative action where

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based on race, people would be getting positions or other things in preference.

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And typically, of course, if you are from a minority race, you would get a

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position that instead of white person.

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So Proposition 2 0 9 amended the state constitution in California

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to prohibit state government institutions from considering race,

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sex, or ethnicity, specifically in the areas of public employment.

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Public contracting and public education.

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So kind of anti the voice in a way because the voice is attached to this idea of a

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special, group to parliament, a group of public servants, which is a form of public

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employment, which will be race-based.

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A kind of affirmative action, I guess seems to look like

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it to me and in California.

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So people are saying, well, for the starters, won't it be

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terrible if Australia votes no.

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Will just be the or, laughingstock not lock, laughingstock or the

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pariah Pariahs Pariah, yeah.

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Whatever of the community.

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Yeah.

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But it's happened around the world, including California, where they basically

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had affirmative action, and got rid of it.

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But they

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also voted Proposition eight, was it?

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Which Banning gay marriage.

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That was the big one, right?

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California is not as left-leaning as we necessarily think.

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No,

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probably not.

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but just keep going on with this, with this, what happened in California.

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so when they put that to the public, in 2009 to get rid of affirmative

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action based on race, it was passed by the public, 55 to 45.

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And then, in 2019, so, you know, over 20 years later, there was a proposition

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16 was introduced, which was to get rid of Proposition 2 0 9 and return

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back to allowing affirmative action.

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They put it to the people and they said no.

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We wanna keep it the way that it has been.

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So Proposition 2 0 9 survived and it is still today in California, prohibited

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for state governments to, consider race, sex, or ethnicity in public employment,

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public contracting and public education.

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So, what did that do to the ethnic makeup of first year enrollment

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at the University of California?

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Let me just find the little chart here.

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I'll bring it up on the screen.

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hopefully that will show up.

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But it was 96 that the Proposition 2 0 9 was passed.

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If we look at, say, 90, 94, so a couple of years beforehand, enrollment.

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First year enrollment, university of California, 4.3% African

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American, 37% Asian, 15% LA Latin American, and 36% white.

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Now, shortly after Proposition 2 0 9, if you look at years 90, 7

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98, 99, 2000, 2001, basically the African American participation

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plummeted from 4.3 down to 2.8.

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Asian was steady.

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Latin American dropped from 15 to 11.

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White increased marginally, 36 to 37, but by the time we get to 2021, the

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African American percentage wa after.

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Compared to 1994, it was 4.3, it's now 5%.

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Asian was 37%.

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It's now 34.

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Latin American was 15%.

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It's now 37 in the white, percentage.

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First year enrollment in 1994, it was 36% and it's now 20%.

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So what did they do?

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they basically changed from using a raced based affirmative action policy

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to introducing a, an adversity score.

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So rather than looking at the color of somebody's skin, they looked

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at a range of factors, which, which basically added up the.

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Difficulties somebody had to face that weren't race related or what

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weren't directly related to, wasn't exactly the color of the skin.

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So, so for example, at the medical school, so this is the

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University of California Davis.

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they created the Socioeconomic Disadvantage Scale or the SS e d and

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basically ranked applicants from zero to 99 taking into account their life

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circumstances such as family income, a rental education, admissions decisions

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were based on that score combined with the usual test scores and.

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Obviously if you had two people who were otherwise equal, but one had overcome

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adversity to get there, then they'd get in in preference to the other one.

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So, according to this report from the New York Times, the disadvantage

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scale helped turn the US Davis or the University of California campus,

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Davis Medical School, one of the most diverse medical schools in the country.

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And so lots, you would've heard, dear listener, that the Supreme

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Court ruled against affirmative action programs in the United States.

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So a number of places are now looking around at what else has been done.

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They're looking at California and they're saying, Hmm, tell us more about this

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adversity score and how that works.

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So, let me see.

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The US university, sorry, uc, university of California Davis Scale

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has drawn attention because of its ability to bring in diverse students

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using what the school says are race neutral socioeconomic models.

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And in its most recent entering class of 133 students, 14% were black, 30%

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were Hispanic, whereas nationally, 10% of medical school students

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were black and 12% were Hispanic.

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So batting above average there on those things.

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And, factors include that they use family income, whether applicants come

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from a underserved area, whether they help support their nuclear families, and

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whether their parents went to college.

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let me see.

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I, Hmm.

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Oh, if you are the children of a doctor, You weren't a adversity score of zero.

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and of course a number of doctors complained because their children couldn't

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get into a California medical school and had to go to a different state.

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Oh.

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Because, so they were saying they performed really well on tess.

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So Yeah.

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Don't, don't forget uc is a public school, public university,

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the private universities.

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However, and they were saying something like 30% of Yale and

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Harvard students are legacies Yes.

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Who get in solely on the fact that

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their parents went there.

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Yes.

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But I think in that decision, I think, didn't that affect

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legacy enrollments as well?

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No, it didn't.

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It didn't.

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It didn't.

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No.

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I thought so.

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So realistically, you have to get away.

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From legacy.

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Mm-hmm.

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If you want to do

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this sort of thing.

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Yeah.

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So, anyway, there's some food for thought of a system where instead of

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looking at the color of your skin, they are looking at family income,

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whether your parents went to college, community involvement, other stuff,

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as an indicator of your adversity.

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And,

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I'm guessing they're thinking if your parents are doctors or one of your

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parents is a doctor, they can afford to send you to a private school.

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Yes.

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To a private university as opposed to the the

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public university.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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So, what does it say?

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It, it just said here that, It's not easy to persuade medical schools

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to upend admission standards, particularly anything that undermines

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the value of test scores and grades.

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Dr.

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Henderson said he had received pushback from his own colleagues.

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Doctors say their kids got into medical school elsewhere and they didn't get

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in here as the children of doctors.

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He said those applicants earned an SS e d score of zero.

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So I guess they couldn't, couldn't earn an income score.

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They couldn't earn a score because they were the first in their family to college.

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they probably didn't earn a score because of a poor public education.

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yeah.

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So there we go.

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Surely they,

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they can get in, but they have to be exceptionally academically.

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Yes, indeed.

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Hmm.

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The other, complaint about, affirmative action.

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Mm-hmm.

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Was that the people who got in were not necessarily, they could

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have excelled in a lesser school.

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So if, if you are certainly your top tier universities, if you're taking

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in people based on the color of their skin, not on their ability mm-hmm.

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Then you are taking in people who may not be able to cope with the pressure, and

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the expectations of a top level school.

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and I wonder how they necessarily, if you are, if you're dealing with people

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from disadvantaged backgrounds, they're gonna have the same sort of thing.

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Yes.

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Quite possibly.

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I've heard that before.

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Mm.

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Coleman Hughes wrote an article once about, how putting kids who

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had academically underperformed.

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Into advanced classes, they would invariably be at the bottom of the class.

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Mm-hmm.

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Because they had got there through, race scores or whatever.

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And and that was tough on them.

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They might've had much happier and better experiences if they'd been with a cohort

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of peers who are more of their standard.

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Like if you're in a math class and everyone else is a real

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genius at math, like it'd be really depressing, wouldn't it?

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Like you just think you're helpless.

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And what would also happen would be a sort of, basically it, it engineered a

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situation where normally in the class, the poorest performers were ethnic kids or,

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you know, Spanish Latino and black kids.

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and it created a, a sense amongst the white kids that.

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The blacks and Latinos are stupid 'cause they're always in the bottom of the class.

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But that was because it was a cohort that had been kind of promoted in

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a class that they really shouldn't have been in in the first place.

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So almost created a racial stereotype Yeah.

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In the lines of those.

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So there is definitely a correlation between, socioeconomic

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background and performance.

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Mm-hmm.

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And there and there's, there's nothing to do with, race that is inherent in this.

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It is purely, yeah.

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When your, when your parents are out working all hours and you're

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not supervised at home to do your homework, you're more likely to goof

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off than if your parents are at home.

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You know, if you've got, one parent at work and one parent at home being the

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homemaker, they're gonna make bloody sure you sit down and do your homework.

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Mm-hmm.

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Or they're more likely to.

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Mm-hmm.

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Hmm.

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meanwhile, sorry.

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Well, it was

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just, how, how do you deal with that at university level?

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It's too late by then.

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Hmm.

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These kids have been disadvantaged from the get go, and unless you give them

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the resources to catch up, you know, do you run, do you run a remedial class?

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Do you run an additional year for those people from disadvantaged

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backgrounds to bring them up to the same educational standard as

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their, their peers, their cohort?

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Mm-hmm.

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But sometimes it might not be possible.

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Like, you know, if you're in a really M I t or some of these really top universities

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and you're in a really difficult STEM class, all the training in the world can't

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make a silk person out of a SOS either.

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Like, you just either have the ability for some of these

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things or you don't, but Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, so people who have the innate intelligence but

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don't necessarily have the.

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Training.

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Mm-hmm.

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Who have been let down by their school or by, you know, just,

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just their background in general.

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Yeah.

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I'm just saying that a year's extra training can't make it

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rocket scientists out of everybody.

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No, I agree.

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There, there has to be some in innate

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ability there.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, look at us tricky conversations around race.

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Of course culture is a different thing though because culture is where

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people do it does influence things.

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So for example, in Indian culture, it's quite the thing to do medical, into

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the medical profession in some way.

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so culture has a real impact on how people perform.

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race of course, is just a construct, but.

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We talked enough about culture last week.

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Anyway, that's food for thought for you.

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Dear listener, have you enjoyed us treading on dangerous territory yet again?

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next week Scott is gonna tangle with Liam.

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That'll be fun.

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I'm really looking forward to

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that.

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as long as you're gonna be a fair moderator,

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of course, in my Mr.

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Spock fashion, I will be scrupulously fair.

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I won't be swayed by emotion.

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That's good.

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Yeah, it'll be good.

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I alright.

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I all right.

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Until next time.

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Thanks.

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In the chat room.

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You've been good.

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Talk to you next time.

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Bye for now.

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And it's a good night from me and it's a

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good night from him.

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Good night.

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