Join us today as we explore the world of podcasting with the renowned Daniel J. Lewis. We’re all about breaking down the mystique of Podcasting 2.0 – because embracing new tech isn't just for the gearheads; it's for us Yetis who like to stay ahead of the curve.

Apple's given the nod to the transcript tag and we're here to unwrap why that's more than just a back-pat for accessibility. Think transcripts are just for readability? Think again! There's a universe of uses here, from better understanding to snazzy in-app excerpts.

So, ready your headphones, we're about to cruise through the latest in hosts and features – some good, some sleep-inducing. Keep those apps updated, those tags compliant, and your humor on point - let's roll!

Listen to Discover

• Why the trusty old RSS feed is actually more poised to support innovation than some closed platform.
• How staying on top of Podcasting 2.0 features can help you serve your clients better.
• Why one Podcasting 2.0 feature can absolutely transform how audiences and podcasters engage. Because we've never heard a client complain that they wish they could get less engagement.
• Which hosting providers are helping push the envelope.
• Ways that your clients might be able to get Podcasting 2.0 features, even if their media hosts don't support them.
• Where to find apps that support these new features.
• One thing you REALLY need to be careful about when implementing new Podcasting 2.0 features.

Links And Resources

• Podgagement - Tools to help you your audience and grow your podcast!
• Podcast Mirror by Blubrry - This is your fix for turning a regular old podcast feed into a superhero podcasting 2.0 feed for an extra $60/year.
• Buzzsprout - Daniel's picks for those who want to keep things simple and slick without a WordPress focus:
• Captivate.fm - Daniel's picks for those who want a really good implementation of Podcasting 2.0 features and don't need a WordPress-focused workflow.
• Blubrry Podcast Hosting - A solid recommendation by Daniel if you're weaving that WordPress magic into your workflow.
• Libsyn Podcasting - Where you can manually insert those shiny new RSS tags if you're willing to get your hands a bit code-y.
• Podcasting 2.0 - Making podcasts better for everyone! - Your go-to spot to dive deeper into everything podcasting 2.0.

Remember, while these links and tools can feel like a boatload, don't get overwhelmed.

All these fancy new features are cool and all, but they aren't everywhere yet. We've got to keep our ear to the ground and see where the digital waves take us. Continue polishing your editing skills and stay updated with Podcast Editors Mastermind for more content. We are here to support you not only in the editing booth but also in other areas.

About Daniel J. Lewis

Daniel is a Hall of Fame podcaster with more than a decade of experience podcasting and supporting podcasters. He makes podcasting better for everyone with his show, The Audacity to Podcast, and his work to improve the technical foundation of podcasting. He is very enthusiastic about the benefits that the Podcasting 2.0 initiative can provide to podcasters, while still maintaining its open source nature.

Connect with Daniel

• theaudacitytopodcast.com
• podcasting2.org

Join Us Live!

We stream live to our Facebook page and to YouTube every other week.

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• Choose your favorite app!

Our Editor

This episode of the Podcast Editors Mastermind was edited by Alejandro Ramirez. You can find him on LinkedIn if you're interested in talking with him about editing your show.

Be a Guest

If you're a podcast editor, we'd love to see if you'd be a fit for a future episode. Fill out this form to let us know you're interested, and we'll contact you to see if it's a good fit.

Your Yetis Are

• Daniel Abendroth | Roth Media
• Carrie Caulfield | Carrie.Land
• Bryan Entzminger | Top Tier Audio
• Jennifer Longworth | Bourbon Barrel Podcasting

About the Podcast Editors Mastermind

The Podcast Editors Mastermind is for professional podcast editors who want to grow their business and get more clients. We’re creating a community of like-minded professionals that are passionate about the art and science of editing podcasts.

Our goal is to help you build your business by providing tools, resources, and support so you can focus on what matters most—your craft. This isn’t just another group where everyone talks about how great they are at podcast editing; we show our work!

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

Speaker: 00:00:04

*** AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPTION ***

Jennifer Longworth: 00:00:18

And we're live. Welcome to the podcast editor

Jennifer Longworth: 00:00:21

mastermind, the podcast about the business side of podcast

Jennifer Longworth: 00:00:25

editing, the show by editors, for editors.

Jennifer Longworth: 00:00:29

We are so glad you decided to join us. I'm

Jennifer Longworth: 00:00:33

Jennifer Longworth. You can find me at Bourbon Barrel Podcasting, and below

Jennifer Longworth: 00:00:37

me is Bryan Entzminger. You can find me at toptieraudio.com.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:00:41

And, Jennifer, do you wanna introduce our guest? I would love to. Our special guest

Jennifer Longworth: 00:00:44

today is Janiel j Lewis, one of the newly inducted

Jennifer Longworth: 00:00:48

members of the podcast hall of fame. Got to

Jennifer Longworth: 00:00:52

be there for that and, at Podfest. So congratulations, and welcome

Jennifer Longworth: 00:00:56

to the show. Thank you so much. It was great to have you there with

Jennifer Longworth: 00:00:59

Daniel J. Lewis: me as well, Jennifer, to celebrate, and and it's great to be here to

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:03

Daniel J. Lewis: talk about one of the things I'm most passionate about right now besides podcasting, of

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:07

Daniel J. Lewis: course, in general, but one of the specific things. Yeah. And that topic

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:10

is podcasting 2.0, which I don't know anything

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:14

about. I went to a session about it at Podfest and went,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:18

yeah. I know nothing about this. I need to have someone on my show to

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:21

tell me all about this. I'm happy to help. So

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:25

just as a overview, I've been hearing podcast

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:28

2.0 for a while, but I had no idea what it was. For someone

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:32

who's like, well, I don't even know. I haven't even figured out 1 point o

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:36

yet. What is this 2 point o? And what's the basic

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:39

overview? Yeah. Think about it as 1.0 first. We've had

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:43

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 1.0 pretty much untouched since the

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:47

Daniel J. Lewis: beginning. Sure. Along the way, Apple added some additional

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:50

Daniel J. Lewis: tags, like we got the episode number field, season number field, and a

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:54

Daniel J. Lewis: couple other things here and there. But besides that, podcasting

Jennifer Longworth: 00:01:58

Daniel J. Lewis: development and innovation has been somewhat stagnant for

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:02

Daniel J. Lewis: years. Even though the ability to extend

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:06

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting has existed since the beginning because RSS

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:10

Daniel J. Lewis: let's get a little technical here. RSS is just a

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:13

Daniel J. Lewis: particular flavor of XML code, and the

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:16

Daniel J. Lewis: x in XML stands for extensible. So

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:20

Daniel J. Lewis: from the beginning, this thing, the core technology that makes the distribution

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:24

Daniel J. Lewis: of podcast possible, RSS feeds, has always been

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:28

Daniel J. Lewis: extensible, but people have tried to do things with it

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:32

Daniel J. Lewis: and extend it, and it's just not gone anywhere. So

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:35

Daniel J. Lewis: when Adam Curry, the cocreator of podcasting

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:39

Daniel J. Lewis: himself, decided to really start innovating more in the

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:43

Daniel J. Lewis: space and to create podcasting two point o, then things

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:47

Daniel J. Lewis: started catching on. Then we started getting momentum, and

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:50

Daniel J. Lewis: developers jumped on board, podcasters jumped on board, podcast

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:54

Daniel J. Lewis: hosting providers, and even what's so exciting like,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:02:58

Daniel J. Lewis: we might do all of this innovation even if Apple and

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:01

Daniel J. Lewis: Spotify and Google and all of the big companies never do anything with

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:05

Daniel J. Lewis: the innovations we're making, but it's so exciting that

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:09

Daniel J. Lewis: as of a couple of weeks ago, Apple announced official

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:12

Daniel J. Lewis: support for the transcript tag, which is coming from

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:16

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2.0. They don't say it's podcasting 2 point o, but

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:19

Daniel J. Lewis: they do reference the podcast namespace, which is the

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:23

Daniel J. Lewis: technical thing that is extending the RSS feed in order

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:27

Daniel J. Lewis: to enable those podcasting 2.0 feeds. So what

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:31

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2.0 enables is extra functionality

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:35

Daniel J. Lewis: inside of a podcast app if you put this information in your feed and use

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:39

Daniel J. Lewis: your publishing tool to put that in there, and the extra functionality

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:42

Daniel J. Lewis: can benefit you, it can benefit your audience, it can benefit

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:46

Daniel J. Lewis: developers making a better experience in their app, and it can even

Jennifer Longworth: 00:03:50

Daniel J. Lewis: benefit those nasty advertisers. Oh, nasty

Bryan Entzminger: 00:03:54

advertisers. Well, I know a lot of podcasters especially the the us

Bryan Entzminger: 00:03:58

Daniel J. Lewis: indie types, we tend to sometimes think, oh, I don't want advertisers,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:01

Daniel J. Lewis: advertisers are stinky, and I don't like listening to ads.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:05

Daniel J. Lewis: There's a place for ads for sure, but the thing that we often

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:09

Daniel J. Lewis: forget to think about when we are innovating in the space is really

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:13

Daniel J. Lewis: how does this also help the advertisers, the people who have all the money?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:18

Daniel J. Lewis: There are ways that even the advertisers can benefit from this,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:22

Daniel J. Lewis: even if some podcasters don't care about them. This is really interesting to me

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:25

because I've been very much the open source fanboy for a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:29

while. I love what this is about. At the same time, I remember

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:33

Spotify or some people previously from Spotify shared some

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:36

articles a couple years ago about how real innovation

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:40

can never take place in an open environment, that you have to have a closed

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:43

system to truly innovate and that kind of stuff. This seems to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:46

be kind of revealing that as maybe not

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:50

entirely true. What's your perspective? Not true at all. Yeah. Spotify

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:54

Daniel J. Lewis: is, they're frustrating because that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:04:58

Daniel J. Lewis: is their perspective, is they only really know

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:01

Daniel J. Lewis: themselves. And even with the tools that they've developed with Anchor

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:05

Daniel J. Lewis: or now Spotify for Podcasters, it's really about promoting

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:09

Daniel J. Lewis: Spotify, and they look internally

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:12

Daniel J. Lewis: for their solutions instead of externally. And that's really hurting the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:16

Daniel J. Lewis: industry because there's so much innovation happening that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:20

Daniel J. Lewis: they just won't listen to. People will ask them, when are you going to support

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:24

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2 point o? And they're just like deer in the headlights,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:28

Daniel J. Lewis: and they just don't know what it is. They

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:31

Daniel J. Lewis: won't look into it. They seem to not care. They

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:35

Daniel J. Lewis: just decide, we're just gonna do our own thing. So, like,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:39

Daniel J. Lewis: even Daniel Ek, the founder, the head of,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:42

Daniel J. Lewis: Spotify right now, has come out and said certain things like

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:46

Daniel J. Lewis: RSS is holding us back. We can't innovate on top of RSS. I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:49

Daniel J. Lewis: think he even said something like we can't extend RSS.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:53

Daniel J. Lewis: And you heard me say it earlier. It is in the very

Bryan Entzminger: 00:05:57

Daniel J. Lewis: definition of what RSS is to be

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:00

Daniel J. Lewis: extensible. So, yes, we can extend it. And will Spotify ever

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:04

Daniel J. Lewis: support any of these new features? I don't know. Maybe now that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:08

Daniel J. Lewis: Apple supports some of them, maybe. But the thing is that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:11

Daniel J. Lewis: we shouldn't be waiting on

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:15

Daniel J. Lewis: these big companies to fix things. Instead, we should be

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:19

Daniel J. Lewis: innovating regardless of what they're doing, and that's what podcasting

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:22

Daniel J. Lewis: 2.0 has been doing. And it's just so nice to see some

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:26

Daniel J. Lewis: validation though from a big company like Apple. That's just 1

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:29

Daniel J. Lewis: feature, and transcripts would be we've had people talking about transcripts,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:33

Daniel J. Lewis: so I want to explain that one a little bit more first. People have been

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:36

Daniel J. Lewis: talking about transcripts for a while, but pretty much what they've been talking about

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:40

Daniel J. Lewis: putting in with your podcast is a block of text somewhere.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:44

Daniel J. Lewis: And even worse, putting that block of text in a PDF

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:48

Daniel J. Lewis: file that someone could download. That is not accessible, and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:52

Daniel J. Lewis: the whole point really of transcripts is for accessibility. Yes.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:06:55

Daniel J. Lewis: They're a little bit better than nothing for search engine optimization,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:00

Daniel J. Lewis: but it was just so limited what you could do before. Now there is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:03

Daniel J. Lewis: a specific tag in the RSS feed that enables you to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:07

Daniel J. Lewis: upload a transcript format, not just a PDF, a block of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:11

Daniel J. Lewis: text, but an SRT or a VTT file, which

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:14

Daniel J. Lewis: is a special time stamped where it's line by line with time

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:18

Daniel J. Lewis: stamps in it, you can upload that with your episodes so that in a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:22

Daniel J. Lewis: modern podcast app that supports the transcripts, it can play

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:26

Daniel J. Lewis: like closed captioning in a show. And that's great not

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:29

Daniel J. Lewis: only for the accessibility to hearing impaired

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:33

Daniel J. Lewis: people, but also just understandability. Like, if

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:37

Daniel J. Lewis: someone was trying to hear, wait, what was that thing that they said? I couldn't

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:40

Daniel J. Lewis: quite hear them, or they said it too fast, or I didn't quite get that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:44

Daniel J. Lewis: They could enable the transcript for a moment, see what was said,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:48

Daniel J. Lewis: or maybe they're trying to jot down exactly what you said because it was such

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:51

Daniel J. Lewis: an inspirational quote that they want to write it down verbatim,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:55

Daniel J. Lewis: and they can see that from the transcript. And that kind of idea

Bryan Entzminger: 00:07:59

Daniel J. Lewis: of using excerpts, that's something else that some of these apps could

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:03

Daniel J. Lewis: start to build in where we've had all of these apps before that let you

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:06

Daniel J. Lewis: clip audio. Well, you can have an app that has a little bit of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:10

Daniel J. Lewis: AI to it to recognize where a sentence starts and ends, and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:14

Daniel J. Lewis: let you very easily clip the last sentence that you heard

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:17

Daniel J. Lewis: or the last 2 sentences because that would be enabled through the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:21

Daniel J. Lewis: transcript. And and that's just one feature here with

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:25

Daniel J. Lewis: the transcript. Some of the other really exciting features

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:28

Daniel J. Lewis: are the ability to have what we call cross app

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:32

Daniel J. Lewis: comments, which would be where you could comment on a podcast

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:35

Daniel J. Lewis: episode inside of your podcast app. So none

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:39

Daniel J. Lewis: of this going somewhere else to comment on the episode, but you comment in

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:43

Daniel J. Lewis: your app, and then someone in a different app

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:47

Daniel J. Lewis: could see that same comment and respond to it, and the podcaster could

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:50

Daniel J. Lewis: get involved with their own app or third party service like Podgagement

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:54

Daniel J. Lewis: or something else. So it's creating this engagement around the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:08:58

Daniel J. Lewis: episodes inside of the app. There are other features

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:02

Daniel J. Lewis: like live streaming. If you do live streaming like you guys are doing right here,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:05

Daniel J. Lewis: what you could do is is powered by the thing called the live item

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:09

Daniel J. Lewis: tag, which is like a new item or a new

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:13

Daniel J. Lewis: episode in an RSS feed, but it's wrapped with this live

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:16

Daniel J. Lewis: item tag instead of a normal item tag, and that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:20

Daniel J. Lewis: enables these modern podcast apps to recognize a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:24

Daniel J. Lewis: couple extra features that you add in to say when you're going live. So,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:28

Daniel J. Lewis: like, when we went live tonight, if you use the live item tag

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:31

Daniel J. Lewis: in your podcast RSS feed, someone with a podcasting 2 point

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:35

Daniel J. Lewis: o compatible app would see that notification that you're

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:39

Daniel J. Lewis: going live soon, and then when you go live, they

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:42

Daniel J. Lewis: would receive a notification to be able to tap in that. And

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:46

Daniel J. Lewis: inside of the podcast app, they could listen to the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:49

Daniel J. Lewis: episode live being recorded. That's some of the cool

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:53

Daniel J. Lewis: stuff. So much more that is around engagement, around

Bryan Entzminger: 00:09:56

Daniel J. Lewis: enabling extra features for your podcast, or ways that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:00

Daniel J. Lewis: things can display better. Like, one of the other really cool things is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:04

Daniel J. Lewis: the person tag. Think of it as adding credits to your podcast as a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:08

Daniel J. Lewis: whole or your individual episodes. So, like, if you look inside of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:12

Daniel J. Lewis: Apple Podcasts, for some of the podcasts, if you look down at the bottom of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:16

Daniel J. Lewis: the listing, you'll see a picture of the hosts and cohosts.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:20

Daniel J. Lewis: Well, that right now inside of Apple Podcasts, that's all proprietary

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:24

Daniel J. Lewis: stuff, but we have the ability to do that with RSS feeds now

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:28

Daniel J. Lewis: so that you could very easily see who the hosts are for this

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:32

Daniel J. Lewis: particular episode or the show as a whole, and then the apps can

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:35

Daniel J. Lewis: expose that information and cross link it. So if you tap on Brian

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:39

Daniel J. Lewis: Inspiner, you would get to see all the other podcasts that Brian

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:43

Daniel J. Lewis: has been on or been a guest on or hosted. That

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:47

Daniel J. Lewis: kind of thing can be brought into the app. So

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:51

Daniel J. Lewis: all of this stuff, then so many more features too, is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:54

Daniel J. Lewis: about giving the podcaster more control, more features,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:10:58

Daniel J. Lewis: giving the audience more ways to engage with the podcast and learn about

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:02

Daniel J. Lewis: the podcast, and giving developers more opportunities

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:06

Daniel J. Lewis: to make their apps better and a more engaging experience to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:10

Daniel J. Lewis: keep the audience inside of the app. And even for

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:13

Daniel J. Lewis: advertisers, there are opportunities like being able to better

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:17

Daniel J. Lewis: track consumption of an episode or track the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:21

Daniel J. Lewis: engagement a little bit better or like with chapters. That's another

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:24

Daniel J. Lewis: thing, another really fun feature. We've had chapters in podcasting for a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:28

Daniel J. Lewis: while, and a chapter is think of it like this. If you're listening

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:32

Daniel J. Lewis: to an audio podcast, and then an image pops

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:35

Daniel J. Lewis: up at a certain point for your sponsor or something that you're talking

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:39

Daniel J. Lewis: about. Maybe you're talking about Hindenburg, and so you display the Hindenburg

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:43

Daniel J. Lewis: logo and a link to Hindenburg that's made possible with a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:46

Daniel J. Lewis: chapter when it happens in the middle of the episode. We've had chapters

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:50

Daniel J. Lewis: for a long time before, m p 3 chapters, enhanced AAC

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:54

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast, but the big problem with that was they were embedded in

Bryan Entzminger: 00:11:57

Daniel J. Lewis: the media file. So if you have ever wanted to change the chapters,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:01

Daniel J. Lewis: you had to change the media file. So if you wanted to update

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:05

Daniel J. Lewis: a chapter, especially for the audience that already downloaded your

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:09

Daniel J. Lewis: episodes, you couldn't update it. They would have to redownload it, but would they

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:12

Daniel J. Lewis: wouldn't even know to do that just to get new chapters. So podcasting

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:16

Daniel J. Lewis: 2.0 has what we call now super chapters, and that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:19

Daniel J. Lewis: extends things. 1st, it moves it outside of the media file

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:23

Daniel J. Lewis: into a separate file so you can update those chapters

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:26

Daniel J. Lewis: anytime, in the podcast apps that support these modern

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:30

Daniel J. Lewis: chapters will check the chapters every time your audience engages with

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:33

Daniel J. Lewis: your episode, so it looks for any updates. You can do really cool

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:37

Daniel J. Lewis: things with that that can help you as the podcaster, help the audience, even help

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:41

Daniel J. Lewis: advertisers too, like maybe an advertiser, you're using

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:44

Daniel J. Lewis: dynamic ad insertion, and you can then make whatever that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:48

Daniel J. Lewis: chapter link is for your advertiser, you can switch it out based on whatever

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:52

Daniel J. Lewis: your advertiser is for that or whatever you are promoting. Maybe you're

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:55

Daniel J. Lewis: promoting a limited time thing. So for

Bryan Entzminger: 00:12:59

Daniel J. Lewis: this week, the image of that chapter is something that says, like,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:03

Daniel J. Lewis: this week only, and then, a few days later, it

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:06

Daniel J. Lewis: says 2 days left. And then after this week, that image then

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:10

Daniel J. Lewis: says, sorry, this isn't available anymore or check back later or something

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:14

Daniel J. Lewis: like that, and that's all done without your having to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:17

Daniel J. Lewis: reupload your media file or anyone having to redownload the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:21

Daniel J. Lewis: episode or anything like that. It's much more dynamic. So it's

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:24

Daniel J. Lewis: so much more engagement is possible with podcasting 2 point

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:28

Daniel J. Lewis: o. So since we're a show by editors for

Jennifer Longworth: 00:13:31

editors, why should editors care? And how do we

Jennifer Longworth: 00:13:36

absorb and process this knowledge and then convey it to our

Jennifer Longworth: 00:13:39

clients? Brian? I've got my podcaster hat on right now, and I'm loving this. And

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:43

part of me is going, how do I do all these things? The other part

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:46

is if I put on my editor's head, like, is there a way that I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:49

can use this to differentiate myself? Is there a way that I can use this

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:53

to bring value to my clients that they wouldn't have normally expected in a way

Bryan Entzminger: 00:13:57

that's valuable to them? Like, I'm gonna be selfish. How can I make it valuable

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:00

to me? Yeah. Most of this happens on the publishing side because

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:04

Daniel J. Lewis: it's in the RSS feed. So most of it would then

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:07

Daniel J. Lewis: be something that if you're only editing the audio or

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:11

Daniel J. Lewis: video of the episode,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:22

Daniel J. Lewis: and eventually someday coming to Adobe Audition and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:25

Daniel J. Lewis: Audacity recently started implementing transcripts in Audacity,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:30

Daniel J. Lewis: there's the option and the opportunity for you as the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:33

Daniel J. Lewis: editor to go ahead and get that transcript for your

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:37

Daniel J. Lewis: client. And as you're editing the audio,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:41

Daniel J. Lewis: you're able to also refine the transcript a little bit because you're

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:44

Daniel J. Lewis: familiar with what's in the episode. Like, for example, when I edit my own transcripts,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:48

Daniel J. Lewis: and I use an AI system to generate my transcripts, but one

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:52

Daniel J. Lewis: of the things I look for is I always look for, proper nouns

Bryan Entzminger: 00:14:56

Daniel J. Lewis: and URLs, and I go back and correct those. Because, like, just my own

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:00

Daniel J. Lewis: domain, for example, theaudacitytopodcast.com,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:04

Daniel J. Lewis: there are several things that the AI often gets wrong. Like,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:07

Daniel J. Lewis: sometimes it doesn't include the word the in the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:11

Daniel J. Lewis: domain. Sometimes it has that as the space

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:14

Daniel J. Lewis: audacity to podcast. Sometimes it says the 2 is the number

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:18

Daniel J. Lewis: 2 instead of t o. Sometimes

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:22

Daniel J. Lewis: it hears audacity as some different word

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:25

Daniel J. Lewis: like oddity or something else like that, and so weird things

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:29

Daniel J. Lewis: like that can happen. So I just look for any occurrence of, like,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:33

Daniel J. Lewis: .com, .org, .net based on whatever I remember saying in my episode.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:37

Daniel J. Lewis: I look for any occurrence of a slash to make sure whatever comes after the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:40

Daniel J. Lewis: slash is correct. So like theaudacitytopodcast.com/microphones.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:46

Daniel J. Lewis: So I check to make sure that's correct, And those proper nouns, I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:50

Daniel J. Lewis: can check. So this is because I'm familiar with my own content and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:53

Daniel J. Lewis: what I said in it, I can correct the transcript. So you as

Bryan Entzminger: 00:15:57

Daniel J. Lewis: editors could also do that same thing, especially if you're working

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:00

Daniel J. Lewis: with a tool. Now several of them are starting to let you see the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:04

Daniel J. Lewis: transcript in your editing workflow. You could very easily

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:07

Daniel J. Lewis: see, wait, that transcript doesn't match what was just now

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:11

Daniel J. Lewis: said. I'm just gonna correct that really quickly. And, yeah, that does

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:14

Daniel J. Lewis: take a little bit more time, but then that's a value add that you

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:18

Daniel J. Lewis: can offer to your clients to say, by the time

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:22

Daniel J. Lewis: this episode is edited, I can also provide for you the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:25

Daniel J. Lewis: transcript. It's AI powered, but I did a little bit of touching

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:29

Daniel J. Lewis: up as I was going through and editing your content to make sure

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:33

Daniel J. Lewis: your names, brand names, proper nouns were all correct, and your

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:36

Daniel J. Lewis: URLs are all correct. You can offer that. As well as

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:40

Daniel J. Lewis: since you're working with the audio, you could either

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:44

Daniel J. Lewis: by AI powered or just as you're making it, you could take

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:47

Daniel J. Lewis: note of the time stamps for when the subject

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:51

Daniel J. Lewis: changed because those could be chapters, and you could offer

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:54

Daniel J. Lewis: those chapters, even create the chapter file for

Bryan Entzminger: 00:16:58

Daniel J. Lewis: your client so that they could upload that in their system or copy and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:02

Daniel J. Lewis: paste it. So that could be something too that's coming then

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:06

Daniel J. Lewis: from the audio editing process. That then is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:09

Daniel J. Lewis: a value add for you to then give to them and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:13

Daniel J. Lewis: say, here's something else. Now your podcast can be podcasting 2 point

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:17

Daniel J. Lewis: o compliant because here are these 2 things I've done for you that you can

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:21

Daniel J. Lewis: then add in your publishing tool, or if you work with the publishing

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:24

Daniel J. Lewis: tool yourself, certainly, you can do a lot more for them with

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:28

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2 point o. So I do publish for,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:17:32

like, half my clients. About half of them, I send them the file back,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:17:36

and the other half, I put into their media host, some of which have podcast

Jennifer Longworth: 00:17:39

two point o and some of them that are getting there maybe.

Jennifer Longworth: 00:17:44

Daniel J. Lewis: Lipson. I didn't say any memes. I

Jennifer Longworth: 00:17:48

Daniel J. Lewis: didn't say Lipson. Like, who was talking about Lipson? Who who

Jennifer Longworth: 00:17:52

Daniel J. Lewis: thinks that Lipson is behind on this? But that's a great

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:55

point. Right? Because as these are new features, right, they're not

Bryan Entzminger: 00:17:59

evenly supported among media hosts. How much would we have to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:03

stay on top of which hosts our clients are using and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:06

what's available to them. Because I would hate to I'm not gonna throw

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:10

any particular company on the bus. But let's say that I was creating the chapters

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:14

for them, and I haven't done my due diligence or I'm on a consulting call

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:18

and they haven't decided who they're gonna host with and then they hire me. I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:21

provide them this chapter's file, and their host doesn't support it. Like, that's kind of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:24

an embarrassing situation to be in. I'm charging them for something that they now can't

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:28

use. Do we have to stay on top of this? Like, what are your thoughts?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:32

Daniel J. Lewis: It is something that I think that you can encourage your clients to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:36

Daniel J. Lewis: make sure that they're using a hosting provider that supports podcasting 2 point

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:39

Daniel J. Lewis: o or at least gives the flexibility that you can add

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:43

Daniel J. Lewis: these tags in manually yourself, which gets complicated.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:47

Daniel J. Lewis: I'm working on the website. We didn't even mention this. Podcasting2.org

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:52

Daniel J. Lewis: is now the home of podcasting 2 point o. It has a lot of technical

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:56

Daniel J. Lewis: technical information there, but we're also working on making it a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:18:59

Daniel J. Lewis: whole lot more user friendly, and podcaster and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:03

Daniel J. Lewis: audience friendly and speaking in regular terms that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:07

Daniel J. Lewis: mere mortals, the rest of us can understand, but we really wanna

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:10

Daniel J. Lewis: focus on the benefits through that site. So one of the things I'm making

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:14

Daniel J. Lewis: there is a tag generator. So even if

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:18

Daniel J. Lewis: like, from since I mentioned Libsyn, Libsyn

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:21

Daniel J. Lewis: 4 lets you actually manually insert RSS tags. I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:25

Daniel J. Lewis: think Podomatic also lets you

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:29

Daniel J. Lewis: manually insert some RSS tags yourself. So even if they don't

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:33

Daniel J. Lewis: support some of these features, if you have that ability to put in the RSS

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:36

Daniel J. Lewis: code yourself, you could generate that and put that in. But the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:40

Daniel J. Lewis: the big thing so if someone is let's say they're

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:44

Daniel J. Lewis: going to Spotify for podcasters, why would you have them

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:47

Daniel J. Lewis: as a client if they're gonna do that? But that aside, if they're going

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:51

on It's a conversation we've had. Yeah. And if they're going on a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:55

Daniel J. Lewis: platform like that, you could encourage them to do something

Bryan Entzminger: 00:19:59

Daniel J. Lewis: different, but if they're really set on whatever platform it is,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:03

Daniel J. Lewis: I mentioned Spotify for Podcasters because that's probably going to be the last

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:06

Daniel J. Lewis: ever to support podcasting 2 point o. What you could do

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:10

Daniel J. Lewis: is if they just will not switch, you still

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:13

Daniel J. Lewis: have an option of a couple services are starting

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:17

Daniel J. Lewis: to enable you to layer on some of these features.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:21

Daniel J. Lewis: Like, Blueberry has a service called podcast mirror,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:24

Daniel J. Lewis: podcastmirror.com. It was free for a while. Now it does

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:28

Daniel J. Lewis: cost. There is no free plan. You might remember the old

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:32

Daniel J. Lewis: days of FeedBurner where we would take an RSS feed that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:36

Daniel J. Lewis: was not a podcast RSS feed and turn it into a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:39

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast RSS feed with feed burner through what back then they had the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:43

Daniel J. Lewis: smart cast feature. Feed burner is completely rebuilt now. It's

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:47

Daniel J. Lewis: really just pretty much a feed proxy service. You still can add some of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:51

Daniel J. Lewis: that podcast information. Don't use it like that, but

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:54

Daniel J. Lewis: what podcast mirror from Blueberry, the podcast hosting company,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:20:58

Daniel J. Lewis: what podcast mirror can do is it can take a podcasting 1

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:02

Daniel J. Lewis: point o feed and turn it into a podcasting 2 point o

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:06

Daniel J. Lewis: feed, allowing you to add some extra stuff

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:09

Daniel J. Lewis: on mainly the main top level. So you can't add

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:13

Daniel J. Lewis: the episode transcripts, at least not yet. You can't add

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:17

Daniel J. Lewis: episode level information, but you could add things like

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:21

Daniel J. Lewis: the value for value, Satoshi streaming. You could add

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:24

Daniel J. Lewis: things like the person tag at the top level of the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:28

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast. You can add a few other things like that to the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:31

Daniel J. Lewis: RSS feed. So you'd run your feed through podcast

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:35

Daniel J. Lewis: mirror, and on the other side, you get a new feed URL

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:39

Daniel J. Lewis: that then has some of these podcasting 2 point o features.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:44

Daniel J. Lewis: That does cost. Right now, it's I believe it's $60

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:47

Daniel J. Lewis: a year with Blueberry. I don't know if it's even part of their

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:51

Daniel J. Lewis: affiliate program that you're getting any kind of affiliate payment if you referred

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:55

Daniel J. Lewis: people to them. I'm not sure about that. But it's a proposal that you could

Bryan Entzminger: 00:21:59

Daniel J. Lewis: include with them to say, alright, if you want

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:02

Daniel J. Lewis: transcripts and chapters, I'm happy to do that for you. That's going to be

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:06

Daniel J. Lewis: this little add on, an additional service, and we're going

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:10

Daniel J. Lewis: to have to set you up with PodcastMirror so that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:13

Daniel J. Lewis: you can take advantage of a few of these more features. Although,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:17

Daniel J. Lewis: unfortunately, chapters and transcripts are not something that PodcastMiner can do

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:21

Daniel J. Lewis: Right. Yet. They said it's just a technical limitation right

Bryan Entzminger: 00:22:24

Daniel J. Lewis: now, so it's something I'm sure they're working on. So when I had these

Jennifer Longworth: 00:22:28

consultation calls with new clients, which seem to be coming out of the

Jennifer Longworth: 00:22:32

woodwork for me right now, and they say, which media host should I

Jennifer Longworth: 00:22:36

choose? I'm starting to think I need to steer them away from certain

Jennifer Longworth: 00:22:39

places and to other places, but I'm not sure which places those

Jennifer Longworth: 00:22:43

are nor if how much it really matters. And I

Jennifer Longworth: 00:22:46

don't have anybody on Lipson. I kind of hate to throw Lipson under the bus

Jennifer Longworth: 00:22:50

Daniel J. Lewis: a bit because they've been around the space and supported podcasters

Jennifer Longworth: 00:22:54

Daniel J. Lewis: for so long. It's just the truth that we have to be honest about

Jennifer Longworth: 00:22:58

Daniel J. Lewis: is that they do not have native support for podcasting 2 point o

Jennifer Longworth: 00:23:02

Daniel J. Lewis: features built in. So if you have a client that's really

Jennifer Longworth: 00:23:05

Daniel J. Lewis: interested and wants to take advantage of the podcasting 2 point o features,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:23:09

Daniel J. Lewis: The places that I personally recommend are if

Jennifer Longworth: 00:23:13

Daniel J. Lewis: they like a WordPress workflow, then Blueberry because it's all right

Jennifer Longworth: 00:23:17

Daniel J. Lewis: there with WordPress, and it integrates really nicely and everything. If

Jennifer Longworth: 00:23:21

Daniel J. Lewis: they're not wanting a podcast focused workflow, then the

Jennifer Longworth: 00:23:24

Daniel J. Lewis: other 2 places I highly recommend are Captivate and Buzzsprout.

Jennifer Longworth: 00:23:29

Daniel J. Lewis: Both of them are really good with their podcasting 2 point o support,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:23:32

Daniel J. Lewis: Captivate more so than Buzzsprout. And I think that Captivate,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:23:36

Daniel J. Lewis: while they don't have the most podcasting 2 point o features,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:23:40

Daniel J. Lewis: I think that they've implemented them the best, and

Jennifer Longworth: 00:23:44

Daniel J. Lewis: Buzzsprout, I would say, is the easiest. I think that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:48

would probably mirror my impressions of them. I've not worked on a Buzzsprout

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:51

show, but hearing them talk about how they work with their or how

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:55

their workflows work, because I listen to their podcast because I'm a nerd,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:23:59

it sounds like they're very focused on that new indie podcaster that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:03

doesn't wanna learn all the, the technical stuff. We're

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:06

hosted with Captivate, so I'm reasonably familiar with what they offer in

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:10

terms of 2 point o features. We've got some of them enabled for our show

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:14

right now. One thing I'm wondering is I would love

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:18

to be able to use the live item tag, but I don't think that that's

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:21

currently supported natively by Captivate. Is there a workaround

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:25

other than PodcastMirror? Right now, no.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:29

Daniel J. Lewis: But that is something that you can do with Podcast Mirror

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:32

Daniel J. Lewis: because, technically, even though it's a live

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:36

Daniel J. Lewis: item, it actually goes at the channel level. So it would go

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:40

Daniel J. Lewis: before the episodes. It doesn't go inside an episode.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:43

Daniel J. Lewis: It basically goes before the episodes even though it is an episode,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:48

Daniel J. Lewis: technically different. So that is something that could work with podcast

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:51

Daniel J. Lewis: mirror. The support for these specific features

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:55

Daniel J. Lewis: is changing as some of these developers are implementing support,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:24:59

Daniel J. Lewis: and it's changing in the apps too. So that's why podcasting

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:03

Daniel J. Lewis: 2.org exists is to help track some of this so you can

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:07

Daniel J. Lewis: see what features are supported in what apps. And there's going to a spin

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:10

Daniel J. Lewis: off-site, by the way, that I've actually been working on longer

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:14

Daniel J. Lewis: to show a whole grid of, like, this is how

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:18

Daniel J. Lewis: this feature works in this app, or this is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:22

Daniel J. Lewis: supported fully in this app or partially in this app, even

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:26

Daniel J. Lewis: down to stuff like what apps support hyperlinks in their show

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:30

Daniel J. Lewis: notes, that kind of thing. But that's a spin off site that's not

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:34

Daniel J. Lewis: completely podcasting 2 point o related, but right now

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:37

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2.org, if you go there and, like, if you look at the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:41

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast namespace section and you click on a tag, then you can

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:45

Daniel J. Lewis: see the publishing tools and the hosting providers that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:48

Daniel J. Lewis: support that tag, so that if that particular

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:52

Daniel J. Lewis: feature is really important to you, then you can know this is what you should

Bryan Entzminger: 00:25:56

Daniel J. Lewis: recommend then to your clients to use. And thinking

Jennifer Longworth: 00:25:59

about how to, as a listener,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:03

these aren't in Spotify. Spotify doesn't care. What app do

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:07

I need to download and have my listeners download to be able to

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:10

take advantage of these. Does that make sense? Yeah. Right

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:14

Daniel J. Lewis: now, it is limited, but it is growing. Because,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:18

Daniel J. Lewis: like, for example, with Apple, with the upcoming Ios

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:22

Daniel J. Lewis: 17.4, or maybe it's even out by the time that the people

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:26

Daniel J. Lewis: listening, download this episode and listen to it. 17.4 is

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:29

Daniel J. Lewis: the version that will include support for the transcripts. So that

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:33

Daniel J. Lewis: will be inside of Apple Podcasts as of 17.4.

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:38

Daniel J. Lewis: Other popular apps, Podcast Addict supports a few of these things.

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:41

Daniel J. Lewis: Podcast Guru is supporting some of these things.

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:45

Daniel J. Lewis: Pocket Casts has done some work to

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:49

Daniel J. Lewis: support things, but they not fully, but they are

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:52

Daniel J. Lewis: excited about it. They just haven't done all that much yet.

Jennifer Longworth: 00:26:56

Daniel J. Lewis: I don't quite know what's going on there. But then there are other apps that

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:00

Daniel J. Lewis: are more independent. Some of them programmed by 1

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:03

Daniel J. Lewis: person somewhere, and the best thing to do is go to

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:07

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2.org, and there's an apps page where you can then

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:11

Daniel J. Lewis: see here are all of the apps for right now, you can pick a

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:15

Daniel J. Lewis: platform. Like, you wanna see what's everything that works on iOS, what's

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:18

Daniel J. Lewis: everything that works on Android. You click on an app, then you get to see

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:22

Daniel J. Lewis: the list of here are the features that this app supports. So

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:26

Daniel J. Lewis: you can know, oh, this is a really good one, or try it out yourself

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:29

Daniel J. Lewis: to know how good it is that supports all of these features. These are important

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:33

Daniel J. Lewis: to my client. So this is why I'm going to suggest

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:36

Daniel J. Lewis: that my client then promote to their audience

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:40

Daniel J. Lewis: and encourage them even saying things like when they start

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:44

Daniel J. Lewis: to use some of these features, they could say things

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:47

Daniel J. Lewis: like, hey. If you need the transcript for this episode, did you know

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:51

Daniel J. Lewis: that I put transcripts out with the episode and you need a special

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:55

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast app to play it? Get the new podcast app through, and one

Jennifer Longworth: 00:27:59

Daniel J. Lewis: of the places that you can send them is podcastapps.com or newpodcastapps.com or modernpodcastapps.com or

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:01

Daniel J. Lewis: podcastin2.org/apps.

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:07

Daniel J. Lewis: They all pretty much have the the same information. It's just different domains, different

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:11

Daniel J. Lewis: designs on these things, but encouraging then your clients

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:15

Daniel J. Lewis: to encourage their audience to use a modern podcast app

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:19

Daniel J. Lewis: to be able to take advantage of these features and

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:22

Daniel J. Lewis: to really focus on how does this benefit

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:26

Daniel J. Lewis: the audience. That's the thing that I think is always important to

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:30

Daniel J. Lewis: to bring this back to is even though we can get excited about some of

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:34

Daniel J. Lewis: the technical things or, oh, this is going to be so cool to make this

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:37

Daniel J. Lewis: possible, we need to really think about does the audience

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:41

Daniel J. Lewis: care? Not just even the podcast editors, but the people that

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:45

Daniel J. Lewis: we're editing for their people, do they care

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:49

Daniel J. Lewis: about this kind of stuff? And we can encourage them to care

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:53

Daniel J. Lewis: by pointing out the benefits of things like the transcripts, the

Jennifer Longworth: 00:28:56

Daniel J. Lewis: engagement, the interactions, the opportunities

Jennifer Longworth: 00:29:00

Daniel J. Lewis: to stream money to their favorite podcast through the value

Jennifer Longworth: 00:29:04

Daniel J. Lewis: for value system that the the streaming Satoshis and all of

Jennifer Longworth: 00:29:07

Daniel J. Lewis: that, that kind of thing focusing on that end

Jennifer Longworth: 00:29:10

Daniel J. Lewis: user benefit. One of the things I'm wondering,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:14

as an editor who occasionally gets questions from my clients, Is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:18

it worth it for us to educate our clients or

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:22

even taking it a bit further if a client has heard something through

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:26

a certain unnamed podcast person at a large company

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:29

who thinks it's a big joke, right, is it worth investing the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:33

time to do that? And if so, what are those specific benefits for our

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:37

clients that we should be prepared to to share with them that that will

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:41

help us build that? I have some ideas, but I wanna hear yours.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:45

Daniel J. Lewis: Well, if not you, because some of your clients are might not even be

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:48

Daniel J. Lewis: listening to any podcast about podcasting or keeping up with podcasting

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:52

Daniel J. Lewis: news because maybe they're just so busy creating their content and then

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:56

Daniel J. Lewis: doing whatever else they do, running their business or their hobbies or their

Bryan Entzminger: 00:29:59

Daniel J. Lewis: life, that they're just not interested in what's going on in the podcasting

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:03

Daniel J. Lewis: industry. So this can be opportunities for US

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:07

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast editors to step up and help educate your

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:10

Daniel J. Lewis: clients on here are some new cool things that you could do with your

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:14

Daniel J. Lewis: podcast. Would you be interested in taking advantage of these features?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:18

Daniel J. Lewis: And I think that those top few features to really point

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:22

Daniel J. Lewis: them toward would be transcripts, chapters,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:25

Daniel J. Lewis: and cross app comments. Those are the the big things that really stand out, I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:29

Daniel J. Lewis: think, that don't cost any money, don't get involved that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:33

Daniel J. Lewis: aren't involved with the crypto and the streaming Satoshis in case anyone is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:37

Daniel J. Lewis: afraid of Bitcoin. But the Bitcoin thing, the streaming Satoshis is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:41

Daniel J. Lewis: kind of nice to be able to do, or micropayments

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:44

Daniel J. Lewis: we could call it. I think those are some of the the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:48

Daniel J. Lewis: top things to really focus on for the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:51

Daniel J. Lewis: audiences. I'm actually glad that you mentioned that. The cross app

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:55

comments, of course, sounds great to me as a podcaster. I've always

Bryan Entzminger: 00:30:59

thought it's ridiculous to have to send people somewhere else to have the conversation.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:02

Right? We're having this. We wanna extend our conversation, so please

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:06

connect with me on, I don't know, Circle. So or Facebook

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:10

or whatever. So I I love that idea. Is that even

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:13

implemented? Yes. It is. And it is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:18

Daniel J. Lewis: very cutting edge right now. It's a little bit complicated. There

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:21

Daniel J. Lewis: are some issues that need to be figured out, like moderation abilities

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:25

Daniel J. Lewis: and such, but it is something that is being worked on,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:29

Daniel J. Lewis: and it is, I think, the most exciting feature because it is very

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:33

Daniel J. Lewis: audience focused. It's engaging. It's something a podcaster can get

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:37

Daniel J. Lewis: excited about. It just has to be supported, and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:40

Daniel J. Lewis: there are some little hurdles to be worked through. But I think

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:44

Daniel J. Lewis: that this year, 2024 for the record, we will have

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:48

Daniel J. Lewis: this solved, and it will then be more by other

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:51

Daniel J. Lewis: apps. Right now, it's just kind of a lot of stuff is questionable

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:55

Daniel J. Lewis: and a little bit seemingly complicated, but some people are

Bryan Entzminger: 00:31:59

Daniel J. Lewis: saying, no. It's not all that complicated for developers to support this,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:03

Daniel J. Lewis: but it's going to get easier. And that's the cool thing about all of this

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:06

Daniel J. Lewis: is that the technology will disappear

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:11

Daniel J. Lewis: in the sense that we won't have to care about the technology. It can just

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:14

Daniel J. Lewis: get to the point of you publish a podcast episode,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:18

Daniel J. Lewis: and now you can comment from whatever app you want. You the actual

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:22

Daniel J. Lewis: technology you use doesn't matter. That's coming. We're working toward that.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:27

Daniel J. Lewis: So that's definitely one of the exciting things. I I think I can't remember if

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:30

Daniel J. Lewis: I said it too, but chapters would be I think another really cool thing that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:34

Daniel J. Lewis: could help break up the content, make the content more reviewable.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:38

Daniel J. Lewis: Yeah. That does mean it's also skippable, but would you rather your

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:42

Daniel J. Lewis: audience abandon your episode or skip to exactly what they

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:46

Daniel J. Lewis: want? That's a good question that you could ask to your clients if they're saying,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:49

Daniel J. Lewis: well, would won't they be able to skip? Yeah. And that's a good

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:53

Daniel J. Lewis: thing. Yeah. And David says that they're using it. I'm

Bryan Entzminger: 00:32:57

assuming that he's talking about the cross app comments. That,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:00

to me, seems like the no brainer because I have never talked to a client

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:04

who said I'm getting too much engagement. I wish people would stop getting back to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:07

me. Right? What I always hear is I'm talking into a vacuum.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:11

I never hear anything. I ask people to email me, and they don't.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:14

Yeah. Of course, this can't necessarily fix that, but it

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:18

certainly removes a hurdle. Oh, for sure. And that big

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:21

Daniel J. Lewis: hurdle of stepping outside of the app,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:25

Daniel J. Lewis: that's a big one because once you leave the app,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:29

Daniel J. Lewis: then where do you go? And when you're outside of the app, there are all

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:33

Daniel J. Lewis: of these other distractions of other apps or you get on

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:36

Daniel J. Lewis: to Twitter to send a tweet, an x

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:40

Daniel J. Lewis: tweet, which sounds like you're tweeting your x, that's not it.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:44

Let's not do that. Yeah. You get on there and you want to send a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:47

Daniel J. Lewis: comment and then you get distracted by, oh, here are these other things I'm reading

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:50

Daniel J. Lewis: or just if you're doing this while driving, well, don't.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:55

Daniel J. Lewis: You can't do that. But what if it could be

Bryan Entzminger: 00:33:59

Daniel J. Lewis: so that while you're listening to a podcast and you have something you wanna

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:02

Daniel J. Lewis: say back to the podcast, you just press a button

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:06

Daniel J. Lewis: and start talking, and let go of the button or press the button

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:10

Daniel J. Lewis: again. You stop talking, confirm it, send it, and that's your

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:14

Daniel J. Lewis: app. That's your comment, and it's posted in the app, and it's posted in

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:18

Daniel J. Lewis: all of the other apps. It could be that kind of thing, and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:21

Daniel J. Lewis: it's right there inside of the app. So keeping people inside

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:25

Daniel J. Lewis: of the app then makes that that,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:29

Daniel J. Lewis: process for people to engage so much more seamless because they

Bryan Entzminger: 00:34:33

Daniel J. Lewis: don't have to go somewhere else then. And so one of the things also I've

Jennifer Longworth: 00:34:36

heard is about a pod roll to keep people in the app as a 2

Jennifer Longworth: 00:34:40

point o that you can, like, recommend your favorite pod to, hey. If you

Jennifer Longworth: 00:34:43

like this, you'd like them too. I mean, am I on target? Or

Jennifer Longworth: 00:34:47

Daniel J. Lewis: Yes. Exactly. Right now, if you look in Apple Podcasts, for example,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:34:51

Daniel J. Lewis: many podcasts will have this, and I've started tracking this with one of my other

Jennifer Longworth: 00:34:55

Daniel J. Lewis: services, that you'll see basically, like, you

Jennifer Longworth: 00:34:58

Daniel J. Lewis: might also like or listeners also listens to. That's all algorithmically

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:02

Daniel J. Lewis: generated, and you can't control that. So maybe, you know,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:06

Daniel J. Lewis: you've got the I Love Cats podcast, and then

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:10

Daniel J. Lewis: down at the bottom is the Cats Are Evil, Let's Kill All

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:14

Daniel J. Lewis: Cats podcast. You don't want that recommended on

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:17

Daniel J. Lewis: your podcast. No. Apple for some reason decided you've got enough crossover

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:21

Daniel J. Lewis: audience between these 2 podcasts that they're recommending that, or

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:25

Daniel J. Lewis: maybe you get more control of that with your own recommendations

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:29

Daniel J. Lewis: and that's powered by Podroll. You could also recommend your other

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:33

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasts that you host or your clients could recommend their other podcasts

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:37

Daniel J. Lewis: or other podcasts that they think are very relevant, have some

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:40

Daniel J. Lewis: opportunity to cross promote, even maybe selling some

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:44

Daniel J. Lewis: cross promotion there. What this does then in the apps when

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:48

Daniel J. Lewis: you put in this pod roll, and I hate the name,

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:52

Daniel J. Lewis: but the pod roll comes from the idea of blog roll, and some people

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:55

Daniel J. Lewis: don't even know what blog roll was. It it's really just it's a

Jennifer Longworth: 00:35:59

Daniel J. Lewis: word to describe recommending other podcasts.

Jennifer Longworth: 00:36:03

Daniel J. Lewis: So think of it as recommendations. You put in there

Jennifer Longworth: 00:36:07

Daniel J. Lewis: a certain number of podcasts that you want to recommend, whatever that number is, and

Jennifer Longworth: 00:36:11

Daniel J. Lewis: then these podcast apps that support it can then display that, and they

Jennifer Longworth: 00:36:15

Daniel J. Lewis: might display it in different ways. It might say something like this podcast

Jennifer Longworth: 00:36:18

Daniel J. Lewis: also recommends these, or you might also like

Jennifer Longworth: 00:36:22

Daniel J. Lewis: just like Apple Podcasts has, but the thing is the podcaster

Jennifer Longworth: 00:36:26

Daniel J. Lewis: is in control of this. And that presents

Jennifer Longworth: 00:36:30

Daniel J. Lewis: all kinds of opportunities then for some of the collaboration between

Jennifer Longworth: 00:36:34

Daniel J. Lewis: these different podcasters and the cross promotion or just growing

Jennifer Longworth: 00:36:38

Daniel J. Lewis: the other podcasts that that same podcaster hosts.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:42

Do wanna hit a quick comment before we change directions. David's saying that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:46

people are always like they have to install another app. Don't like that. Yeah. Totally

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:50

get that. I'm in the same boat. And especially when I think about if I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:53

was to send people to a platform that's specifically

Bryan Entzminger: 00:36:57

designed to distract them. Right? Most of our

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:01

platforms are designed to get in the way of what you wanted to do to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:04

keep you there so you come back and do what you forgot to do. Right?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:07

And so if it's comment on my thing, I want them to be able to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:09

do that. So I'm totally with that. I would love to be able to get

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:13

people into one place that's distraction free so they could

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:16

focus and then move on with their lives. Thinking about this, again, putting on the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:20

editor or the producer or the podcast manager hat, are there things that we need

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:24

to be careful of or cautious about when it comes to Podcasting 2

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:27

point o and our clients' shows? If you are working with

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:31

Daniel J. Lewis: transcripts, this is something that you need to watch out for is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:35

Daniel J. Lewis: potential liability. If you're working

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:38

Daniel J. Lewis: and you might not always know what to look for because

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:42

Daniel J. Lewis: it could come up in random places, but just an

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:46

Daniel J. Lewis: example here. If your client

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:49

Daniel J. Lewis: said in the podcast, let's not kill puppies,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:53

Daniel J. Lewis: but the transcript didn't catch the word not. So the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:37:56

Daniel J. Lewis: transcript would say, let's kill puppies. You have to watch

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:00

Daniel J. Lewis: out for that kind of thing. That could be very

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:04

Daniel J. Lewis: problematic because then what if it's some kind of medical advice that's being

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:08

Daniel J. Lewis: given? What if it's financial advice or anything like that

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:11

Daniel J. Lewis: that if the wrong advice is practiced, then

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:15

Daniel J. Lewis: it puts someone in trouble, the podcaster in trouble. And then the podcaster would

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:19

Daniel J. Lewis: say, well, I didn't personally write that. It was my editor who

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:23

Daniel J. Lewis: put that in there, so then you're in trouble for having something

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:26

Daniel J. Lewis: that wasn't correct. That kind of thing is not very

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:30

Daniel J. Lewis: likely to happen. You would have to look out for

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:34

Daniel J. Lewis: the kinds of fields where stuff could get in

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:38

Daniel J. Lewis: more trouble like the scientific, medical, financial, legal

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:42

Daniel J. Lewis: fields. Some of those would be more to be very, very

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:45

Daniel J. Lewis: careful with those kinds of things. Some of the other dangers of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:49

Daniel J. Lewis: this would be overselling the dream of this because all of these

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:53

Daniel J. Lewis: features are great and everything. The unfortunate

Bryan Entzminger: 00:38:57

Daniel J. Lewis: truth is that as of February 2024,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:01

Daniel J. Lewis: the apps that support all of these cool features make up

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:05

Daniel J. Lewis: about maybe 2 to 3% of the global

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:09

Daniel J. Lewis: downloads of podcasts. Excluding Apple, I'm guessing since

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:12

17.4 isn't out yet. Of course. So that will significantly change. But,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:16

Daniel J. Lewis: like, the live item tag or cross app comments or things like

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:20

Daniel J. Lewis: that, not very much support right

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:23

Daniel J. Lewis: now. So if you're telling someone about, hey. Let's get you

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:27

Daniel J. Lewis: involved with cross app comments, and then they expect to see it inside

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:31

Daniel J. Lewis: of Spotify, that's not gonna happen. So you have to be careful not to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:34

Daniel J. Lewis: oversell what's possible. But the cool thing is that the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:38

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasts that support these new features

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:42

Daniel J. Lewis: and promote the modern apps that support these features,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:46

Daniel J. Lewis: they see a completely different shift. So instead of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:50

Daniel J. Lewis: for most podcasters, Apple Podcasts is going to be number 1, and then

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:53

Daniel J. Lewis: Spotify number 2. They some of these platforms see or

Bryan Entzminger: 00:39:57

Daniel J. Lewis: these podcasters see significant shifts where instead of it being Apple

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:01

Daniel J. Lewis: at number 1, it's whatever the particular app is that they

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:04

Daniel J. Lewis: recommend the most as number 1. And then

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:08

Daniel J. Lewis: their audience more of their audience is able to take advantage of those

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:12

Daniel J. Lewis: features. I was checking my stats because I was like, pretty sure Apple is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:16

our winner. And I shouldn't do this because I'm on a show, but I did

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:18

it anyway. So, yeah, Apple's still our winner, but we we don't really

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:22

push the other app. So we do have some of those 2 point o features

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:25

enabled, but we haven't spent any time really promoting

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:29

other apps. Is that something that you would encourage a show like us

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:32

that's really for the editors to do? It could be, especially because the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:36

Daniel J. Lewis: editors need to be familiar with what are some of these cool new features coming

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:40

Daniel J. Lewis: so that they can better promote it to their clients. You can

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:44

Daniel J. Lewis: better promote it to your clients, and it would be nice to then try

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:47

Daniel J. Lewis: some of these things. And where this can then trickle

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:51

Daniel J. Lewis: down to the podcasters and what they do is not only just recommending

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:55

Daniel J. Lewis: these apps in their podcasts or saying, hey. You might wanna try this other

Bryan Entzminger: 00:40:58

Daniel J. Lewis: app, but they might decide to change some of their marketing

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:03

Daniel J. Lewis: instead of making their Apple Podcasts or Spotify link the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:06

Daniel J. Lewis: most prominent link on their website. Maybe instead,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:10

Daniel J. Lewis: they're linking to one of these other apps that a couple of them

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:14

Daniel J. Lewis: are cross platform. Some of them are only Android, some are

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:17

Daniel J. Lewis: only iOS, but they could make those decisions if

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:21

Daniel J. Lewis: they decide, wow, this experience is so much better for

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:25

Daniel J. Lewis: my audience. I really want to get my audience moved over to this

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:29

Daniel J. Lewis: other app. They can make those decisions to stop saying, find us

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:32

Daniel J. Lewis: an Apple Podcasts or wherever get you get your podcast. They could instead instead

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:36

Daniel J. Lewis: say, well, I really suggest they don't say podcast apps in

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:40

Daniel J. Lewis: their calls to action, but they could link to their

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:43

Daniel J. Lewis: page where their page then has those

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:47

Daniel J. Lewis: modern apps more prominent than anything else. And then the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:50

Daniel J. Lewis: audience can start to move over, especially if

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:54

Daniel J. Lewis: the podcaster is educated by you, the editor,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:41:58

Daniel J. Lewis: and the podcaster then educates their audience on this is the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:01

Daniel J. Lewis: benefit you would get by switching over to this other app. On a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:05

personal level, I've been on a quest to find a good podcasting 2 point o

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:09

app that is cross platform because I like Cast O Matic, but

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:12

it's iOS only, and I don't like that. I've been checking out

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:16

Podcast Guru, but their list feature is just

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:19

abysmal. Like, they've got a lot of things figured out really well and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:23

but, like, I put things into a list so I can listen to them or

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:26

I have it on them. Anyway, I'm gonna shut up about that. I do have

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:30

a, a question that's a little bit uncomfortable to bring up. But

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:34

one of the things that we were looking for is how

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:37

well represented is the broader community within the podcast two point o

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:41

space. And what I noticed is almost all of the voices that I'm

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:45

hearing are male. And I'm wondering, are there any women

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:49

involved in this? Is it truly a dude thing? And if so, like, what can

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:52

is there anything that can be done? Well, here's the thing,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:42:56

Daniel J. Lewis: and this some people might not like the way that I put this. I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:00

Daniel J. Lewis: mean, I I have to refer to stereotypes here because

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:03

Daniel J. Lewis: stereotypes exist because they're kind of true in many cases.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:07

Daniel J. Lewis: Look back to the beginning of podcasting itself. It was

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:11

Daniel J. Lewis: almost all male dominated both on the audience side and the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:15

Daniel J. Lewis: producer side because podcasting is very geeky,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:18

Daniel J. Lewis: and geeky stuff tends to attract

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:22

Daniel J. Lewis: more men than women. That's just kind of the nature of the differences

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:26

Daniel J. Lewis: between men and women. So because of that, because

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:29

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasting 2.0 right now is still very geeky

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:33

Daniel J. Lewis: and technical, although it's already gotten easier than it was a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:37

Daniel J. Lewis: couple of years ago. Because it's kind of geeky, that tends to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:41

Daniel J. Lewis: attract a more geeky audience, which tends

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:45

Daniel J. Lewis: to be more male. That said,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:48

Daniel J. Lewis: there are some women in the space. I don't think there are

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:52

Daniel J. Lewis: any women developing the apps themselves, but I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:43:56

Daniel J. Lewis: know that, she goes by Dame Jennifer. I don't know what it is with

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:00

Daniel J. Lewis: Jennifers and podcasting you guys, but, there

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:03

Daniel J. Lewis: is, yeah, a woman who is involved and excited about this, has

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:07

Daniel J. Lewis: supported it, and she is not a programmer. She's

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:10

Daniel J. Lewis: an animator actually, and she just is passionate

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:14

Daniel J. Lewis: about podcasts, and so she's become somewhat of an evangelist for

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:18

Daniel J. Lewis: this and supporting it and helping communicate about it and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:21

Daniel J. Lewis: make little videos here and there and things, and that's something that she's

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:25

Daniel J. Lewis: able to do, interested in doing even though she's not developing.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:29

Daniel J. Lewis: And I'm sure there are others. Well,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:32

Daniel J. Lewis: take, Elsie Escobar, for example, has said in

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:36

Daniel J. Lewis: the feed, Lipson's podcast, that she said some of these features

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:40

Daniel J. Lewis: are so exciting, but how do we communicate this? How do

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:43

Daniel J. Lewis: we explain this? Or there's limited support. She's bringing out the fact that,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:47

Daniel J. Lewis: yes, there's this truth. Well, her saying that in

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:51

Daniel J. Lewis: a recent episode of Libsyn's The Feed is what really

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:54

Daniel J. Lewis: pushed James Cridland and I to finally make

Bryan Entzminger: 00:44:58

Daniel J. Lewis: something happen, and that's why we launched podcasting 2.org

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:02

Daniel J. Lewis: to try to solve that problem of people don't

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:06

Daniel J. Lewis: understand this, or how do we market this? So

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:09

Daniel J. Lewis: that we're hoping that then something like that resource instead

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:13

Daniel J. Lewis: of someone like Elsie Escobar see saying this is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:17

Daniel J. Lewis: great, but instead she can just say, this is

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:20

Daniel J. Lewis: great. Go here to learn more. So she could become an

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:24

Daniel J. Lewis: evangelist because she said she's interested in this. As far as, like, where

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:27

Daniel J. Lewis: else there are men or women, I don't really pay attention

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:31

Daniel J. Lewis: to that. Sure. So I can't really say. And please don't ask me about

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:35

Daniel J. Lewis: skin color or ethnicities because I really have no idea. At all interested in

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:38

that. I was more interested because it is something that I look for,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:42

and I'm of the opinion that there are probably some of those women out there,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:46

we just don't know who they are, and I would love to see because I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:50

came in late, but I'm familiar with the history. I would love to see us

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:53

shortcut that cycle. Right? So I recognize that it's following a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:45:56

similar pattern. I would love to see us shortcut that. So if there are women

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:00

out there that are technically minded or just wanna be that evangelist, my

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:04

encouragement would be please do it. Right? And some of these

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:07

Daniel J. Lewis: features, again, speaking in stereotypes here, I think,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:11

Daniel J. Lewis: Brian, you and I can probably talk about podcasting

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:15

Daniel J. Lewis: for hours on end to someone and never let them

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:19

Daniel J. Lewis: speak at all Because sometimes we can just really nerd

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:22

Daniel J. Lewis: out, and then the other person's just like, okay.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:26

Daniel J. Lewis: Bye. But for women, Jennifer, you

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:29

Daniel J. Lewis: probably again, I know I'm speaking in stereotypes, but

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:33

Daniel J. Lewis: women stereotypically connect more emotionally,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:36

Daniel J. Lewis: and they review conversations in their minds when

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:40

Daniel J. Lewis: they're away from the conversation. They really like the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:44

Daniel J. Lewis: conversations with people, and what I'm leading this into

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:47

Daniel J. Lewis: is cross app comments. So, like, even for women

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:51

Daniel J. Lewis: podcasters, this presents a great opportunity for them

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:55

Daniel J. Lewis: to have those conversations more with their audience,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:46:59

Daniel J. Lewis: to build more intimate connections with their audience, to engage on a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:02

Daniel J. Lewis: deeper level right there inside of the app. So

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:06

Daniel J. Lewis: it's not just about, hey. I'm gonna make my podcast look

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:10

Daniel J. Lewis: better, or, hey. I'm gonna offer transcripts, but it can be about

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:13

Daniel J. Lewis: making those deeper more personal connections

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:17

Daniel J. Lewis: with the podcaster and their audience and even enabling the

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:20

Daniel J. Lewis: audience to connect more with each other,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:25

Daniel J. Lewis: building a community. And that's also a big

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:28

Daniel J. Lewis: thing of what podcasting 2.0 can do is to help

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:32

Daniel J. Lewis: then those relationships be fostered. I did

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:36

wanna hit we had one other comment from David, helping a lot of people he

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:39

met at Podfest get rolling on some two point o features,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:43

telling them about getting workflows in places and getting the mainstream will put them ahead

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:47

of the game. So, yeah, I think that's that's absolutely great.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:51

And, you know, again, my heart really is just how can we get as

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:54

many people as possible enfranchised in this? Because I think it's good

Bryan Entzminger: 00:47:58

For us as editors, I think we do have to kinda take that step back

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:01

and go, okay. How do I make sure that this is valuable for my clients?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:04

Because it can be it can feel the people like we're pushing stuff on them.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:08

And I don't think that's that's not my desire. But at the same time, I

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:11

do want people to take advantage of what's out there. I'm gonna shut up about

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:15

that. Jennifer, did you wanna move on to the Poddecks question, or did you have

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:17

something else? Nope. I was moving on to Poddecks. Time for the Poddecks question of

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:21

the day. This is where, Daniel, you get to choose a number between 1 and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:24

4. We actually have physical cards. These aren't even available anymore. So

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:28

choose a number from 1 to 4. 3. 1, 2, 3.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:32

You know, we mentioned sometimes there are some that don't make it on the air.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:35

You managed to do that. Choose a number between 13. 3.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:39

Okay. Maybe you should look at all the choices before we start

Jennifer Longworth: 00:48:43

next time. Did you just, like, pick all the

Jennifer Longworth: 00:48:47

Daniel J. Lewis: bad ones from here? I I think I did. Alright. So the question

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:50

for today is when were your parents most disappointed in you?

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:55

And I'm not sure I wanna answer that one on the air. So if

Bryan Entzminger: 00:48:58

anybody else wants to, answer that 1 in the comments, you can. How

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:02

about I just choose 1? What was your first screen name? We'll go

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:06

with that one because that's fun. And the first one I can

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:10

remember was Maestro Damas because, you know, I wanted to

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:13

be bigger than I really was, and there was a music thing going on there,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:16

so that was mine. What's everybody else's? Selyn DRG.

Jennifer Longworth: 00:49:21

What? Selyn DRG? S e l y n

Jennifer Longworth: 00:49:25

n d r g. There's way too much to unpack there. I'm not

Jennifer Longworth: 00:49:29

gonna do it. Do you do you even remember your

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:32

first screen name, Daniel? Yeah. It was s g t kids,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:36

Daniel J. Lewis: k I d z, because my first business

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:40

Daniel J. Lewis: was selling kids' books. I was a teenager at that point,

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:44

Daniel J. Lewis: selling kids' books like Adventures and Odyssey, audio drama, children's

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:48

Daniel J. Lewis: books, and videos and stuff. I was a reseller for Focus on the Family and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:51

Daniel J. Lewis: some other providers, and my mom had

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:55

Daniel J. Lewis: a business also selling Christian books and bread baking supplies and

Bryan Entzminger: 00:49:59

Daniel J. Lewis: certain stuff, and her business was called simply good things.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:50:03

Daniel J. Lewis: So I thought, well, I'm gonna have the kids division of my mom's

Bryan Entzminger: 00:50:07

Daniel J. Lewis: business so that she can handle all that legal stuff, And so my

Bryan Entzminger: 00:50:11

Daniel J. Lewis: business would be SGT Kids, but then, like, certain people

Bryan Entzminger: 00:50:15

Daniel J. Lewis: started calling it sergeant kids and Sergeant. Yeah. That's what I thought

Jennifer Longworth: 00:50:18

immediately. Nice. Well, we thank everyone for joining

Jennifer Longworth: 00:50:22

us live. If you miss it, you can always come back and

Jennifer Longworth: 00:50:26

watch from the beginning or catch it when it drops. And if you wanna be

Jennifer Longworth: 00:50:29

a guest on our show, what do you do, Brian? Oh, it's nearly

Bryan Entzminger: 00:50:33

impossible. You have to go to podcasteditorsmastermind.com/beaguest.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:50:37

We chose that link because I could remember it. That'll take you to a magical

Bryan Entzminger: 00:50:41

form that you fill out and let us know if you'd like to be a

Bryan Entzminger: 00:50:43

guest, how we can contact you, what you'd like to talk about. You can also

Bryan Entzminger: 00:50:47

use that form to suggest a topic. So if podcasting 2.0 didn't

Bryan Entzminger: 00:50:50

resonate with you, but you really wanna know how to land that next client, just

Bryan Entzminger: 00:50:54

let us know that's something you'd like us to cover, and we'll see if we

Bryan Entzminger: 00:50:57

can get that in the queue. And then if it's really about how you land

Jennifer Longworth: 00:51:00

your next client, go back and listen to q 4 of 2023.

Bryan Entzminger: 00:51:04

We did cover that. Yeah. Because that's all we talked about. I'm Jennifer Longworth. You

Jennifer Longworth: 00:51:08

can find me at bourbonbarrelpodcasting.com and Instagram Burbn

Jennifer Longworth: 00:51:11

Barrel podcasting. Below me is Bryan Entzmingerr. You can

Bryan Entzminger: 00:51:15

find me at toptieraudio.com. And Daniel has

Jennifer Longworth: 00:51:19

been our special guest today. What's the best place for people to connect with

Jennifer Longworth: 00:51:22

you? Please go to theaudacitytopodcast.com.

Jennifer Longworth: 00:51:27

Not appearing in today's episode are Daniel Abindroth at

Jennifer Longworth: 00:51:30

Rothmedia.audio and Carrie Caulfield at

Jennifer Longworth: 00:51:34

carrie.land. Thank you all so much for joining us, and we'll see

Jennifer Longworth: 00:51:37

you in a couple weeks. Our next guest will be Heather Seitzwolff talking about

Jennifer Longworth: 00:51:41

scope creep. Thank you. Yay.

Jennifer Longworth: 00:51:47

Daniel J. Lewis: So How much is that?