Join us as we dive deep into the world of entrepreneurship with business expert Angela Sedran.

In this episode, we explore the challenges and triumphs of scaling a business, from identifying your strengths to delegating effectively.

Discover how to implement systems, foster accountability, and reduce overwhelm.

We'll also discuss the impact of AI, the importance of values-driven leadership, and the art of strategic focus. Tune in to learn how to take your business to the next level.

Biz Bites is a podcast channel focused on thought leaders in the professional services space. 

Listen to the full episode now and subscribe to our channel to learn more from different thought leaders.

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Connect with Angela on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angelasedran/ 

Check out her website - www.angelasedran.com 

Get in touch with Angela and check out special offers she has in store for you.

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#entrepreneurship #businessleaders #professionalservices #podcastshow #podcasting #scalebusiness

Well, hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Biz

Bytes and I have with me today Angela Sedron and we got to know each other.

Well, we'll get into that as we go into the podcast, but we got to know each

other at a function were both at and we kind of hit it off straight from

the beginning and I thought she's going to be a great guest on the program.

So welcome to the program and I'd love you to introduce yourself to the audience.

Hey, Sean.

Well, hello, everyone.

My name is Angela Cedron.

I help scaling businesses to actually implement the right systems and

this right leadership behaviors to drive accountability down, which

basically means I help them lift their capabilities so that they can grow

they

without the overwhelm.

The Headaches and the overwork

the overwork.

Yeah.

And I think that is a big thing, isn't it?

That, um, whole idea of the, the headaches and the overwhelm and the

overwork and all of these things.

It's such a big factor in business these days, isn't it?

it really is, particularly with a lot of the clients that I

work with because they're great at the technical skills or the products

that they're actually building.

It's the area of expertise.

It's where the superpower lies.

They're not necessarily experts in

really.

So there's, there's also a very big

difference in starting a business.

a

And taking a business to the next level,

the

because what happens is that they have to start hiring more staff.

more

And then a very typical comment I hear is, Oh my goodness, I never

thought I'd end up running a kindergarten that has a business attached to it.

attached to it.

Yes.

It it, it is amazing, isn't it?

Because.

Things change, don't they?

The, the, and I think they're moving at an even faster pace these days

than they have been in the past.

But the truth is, is what a business starts out as and where it ends up

as can be two completely different things and something that was not

predicted at the time of opening it.

I think a lot of business owners got their business because they

are, they want something that gives them more time or freedom or money.

And in the end, it actually gives them none of those things.

It becomes, it can become a bit of a beast

bit of a

that ends up creating tremendous burnout.

And.

And

not why they started the business.

It's like we're not in Kansas anymore.

This is not what I signed up for.

signed up

So it's really also about working with those leaders to work out

what it is they want, because some of them have actually say to me, look,

say to

I'm quite happy winding this business back down.

down

or two people and having a much better lifestyle

lifestyle.

might say to me,

say to me,

I don't want to manage people.

I'm passionate about what I do.

I love my service.

I love my product,

my

but let's get this business to the point where I can

bring someone else in to manage it so that I can then become the

creative director or sit on the board

on the

half the time and then spend the other time pursuing

what I love or sitting on the beach.

on the beach.

Yeah, it is a big difference, isn't it?

Because I find it fascinating when you, when you start digging into what, why

people establish the business in the

Mm.

how many of them are there really with their eyes wide open?

Because I, I look back sometimes and.

People that I've met over the years and I think there's this enthusiasm

for starting a business because it's the idea of starting a business

without actually really necessarily understanding what the implications

of that are and where it might go.

So the enthusiasm is there for the concept of a business, but the reality

can be so completely different.

It really can be.

Um, there's a whole world of things people don't realize they have

to deal with and that they have to do when they start a business.

start a

And I've often had a conversation with a business

owner where he's saying to me,

saying

not in love with my business anymore.

I actually can't stand it.

can't stand it.

So part of what I do is, um,

I do is

in and really help them assess where their business is at,

business

start engaging this stuff and really start pushing

start

down to this stuff so that they are doing

the tough stuff and the daily

and the

grunt and the down and what I call the down in the weeds stuff

so that you can lift yourself out of the business to really start working

on the business again because that is

that

business owners get to the point where they're doing everything.

everything

the business and doing stuff, daily stuff they don't want to do.

want to do.

end up trying to do all the sales and marketing

and the strategy stuff as well.

as

Um, and that's not what they want to do.

It's, it's too much.

too much.

Yeah, it's, and I think it's that one of the hard parts about being in business

is there's that inclination to Feel as though you need to do everything.

And I think that's a, it's a big danger that happens in society these

days because you've got a powerful tool in your pocket with your phone.

For starters, so many apps and so many bits and pieces that you almost feel like

you should be doing it yourself rather than trying to work out what your core

thing is that you're great at and that is really going to help you move forward.

Well, that's a really good point.

So work out what your superpower is and focus on that.

And look, when you start a business and you're on a shoestring budget, yes, then

you have to do a little bit of everything.

everything.

soon as you can start finding ways to stop doing

the stuff that you're not enjoying, that's not bringing you joy.

you joy.

But the other thing I'm seeing, and interestingly, I was having

a conversation with the CEO of one of the private equity firms recently,

firms recently.

and he said to me when people come to him with

their business and he assesses it,

it,

most of the time he finds they are not focused.

focused.

So a lot of business owners.

business

from the bright, shiny object syndrome

syndrome

lack of focus.

We, we overestimate what we can achieve in the short run and underestimate what

we can achieve in the, in the long run.

the long

So

So

only a question of farming out things that you

don't enjoy as soon as you can.

So you can stick to the stuff you're good at.

you're

It's also about strategically deciding, not

just what you're going to do, but what you're not going to do

because strategy comes down to.

to,

most of the time, the most important part

of it is what you say no to.

say no to.

And there's always this temptation to do more.

a hundred percent, isn't it?

It's, it's so easy to be led off course.

I mean, I think we've all had those days where you start off and

you've got a list of might be one.

It might be three things that you want to get done and you get to

the end of it and you realize you didn't do any of those things.

And you think, how did I end up doing all of those things?

Uh, where did that day disappear to?

Yeah.

Typically driving home Friday night, thinking, Oh, it's been such a busy

week, but I've achieved nothing.

I've achieved nothing.

Very common.

it's, and I imagine that, uh, you know, there's, there's

that realization that people have, but I'm, I'm, I'm wondering as well,

what drives them to you in the first place, because I often think that, you

know, it's great if people have this realization and go, you know, Um, either

I'm not enjoying my business or, um, you know, I'm time poor, overwhelmed

as we talked about at the beginning.

it need to be that or is there a point before that where people have more of

a realization say they need some help?

Well, Tony Robbins always says that people only

change when the pain of staying is greater than the pain of changing.

of changing.

number one, they have to be in a significant amount

of discomfort to make a change.

a change.

other problem I find is that

is that

a lot of business owners don't know what they don't know.

they don't know,

Particularly if they don't have any business background.

So they kind of

they

make a few plans, put a few band aids on things, and then they just

accept that this is the way it should be.

it

I really hate it.

It's a drudge, but hey, all business owners have to go through this.

through this.

And this is actually a mistake.

The business owners who come to me are the ones who have actually

actually

homework and

and

are even just open to having a conversation with me and saying,

and

I think there's a different way to do this.

Can, can we have a chat?

we have a chat?

It's the ones who think, no, I'm all good.

I don't need that.

I've, I've got it all covered.

covered.

ones who suffer the longest.

the longest,

But what I would suggest is that you don't wait until you're literally

overwhelmed, overworked, and over it.

over it.

you realize that in order to take your business to the next

level, to really scale it properly,

properly,

you here is not going to get you there.

going to get you there.

Most businesses where the entrepreneur has grown the business,

unless they have changed something,

something,

has gone out of business.

And I can think of

And I

Sophia Amoruso is a very good example with Nasty Gal.

Um, that business got to the point where it imploded on itself.

on

So logically, If you don't change the way you're managing

your business, like getting in a racing car, the thing takes off, it

accelerates, everything's beautiful.

beautiful,

know that if you

know that

don't change gears at a certain point, that car is going to

burn out and your business is the same.

is the

So What I'm saying is understand that that is going to happen.

It's a natural progression in business.

Don't wait until you're at your wit's end.

wits

And unfortunately, a lot of business owners do come to me with that.

So part of what I also talk about

talk

is really starting to educate them and say that

say

business starts growing, as you bring in more staff members, your

problems are going to grow exponentially.

grow

it's easier to put a system in place at the beginning

the

and make sure problems don't occur than to

unwind things and fix problems.

fix problems.

Yeah.

And that whole idea of putting systems in place is in of itself an overwhelming

task for many people, because there's, there can be a lot, it's only when

you start diving into it, isn't it?

Any given business that you realize how many systems there actually are

for doing so many different tasks.

Yeah, very true.

Well, it's even something as simple as a process to create a landing page.

You've got to go through a system.

a system.

but one of the things actually that I can say, I gave a speech.

Each last week on AI, because

because

overall I help businesses build their

capability and help leaders kill

leaders

capability as well.

And AI is part of that.

part of that.

You can actually use AI to start documenting some

of your more mundane systems.

Like how do I create this?

How do we go through the process of

process

on a social media page?

Those sorts of things are simpler to create, but there's so many of them,

of

but once you have them in place.

in place,

sounds counterintuitive.

Systems will set you free

you

because it means that you've taken them out of your brain and

put them on paper and it's much easier

easier

train someone else to do them.

to do them.

The other thing about a business is that, or a system rather.

So the system I use is really to come in and implement what they call a balanced

they

scorecard.

scorecard.

So with the leadership team, we work for a day and a half

together in a workshop removed from the normal day to day work.

to day

And we actually create a plan and a page for that business.

for that business.

Now that in itself is.

in

It's terrific,

terrific,

piece of paper and it's work done in that

room unless the team take it

take

and implement a system and a rhythm and a

cadence where they're actually

where they're

tracking those measures every month

month.

reporting on them, but not just saying this

is what happened, actually saying

saying

what happened, but this is what it means.

it needs.

What is the so what of those results to the business?

Is it good?

Is it bad?

Do I do more of something?

Do we do less of something?

of

Who's going to do it?

And when are we going to do it by?

to do it

So that at the end of every month, the business

starts getting into that habit

that habit

really assessing and adjusting the sales.

the

That's when

That's

no longer have to worry about that stuff because

it happens automatically.

automatically.

And this is where

And this

once you can get a system in place,

in

it starts automating things.

things.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the, that's the key, uh, is to, you need buy in

from people and you need that to, to happen, but I'm, I'm, I'm intrigued as

well as your approach to the developing the systems in the first place, because

actually taking that information out from people and putting into something

that is constructive, um, can be a difficult exercise within itself.

Look,

that anybody has to deal with in a business.

in the business.

Um,

Um,

one, getting the information out of them and number two,

also making sure that they start using it properly is, is the other real,

um, challenge that a lot of business

a

owners face.

owners face.

So for me, engagement is super, super important

important.

you are.

you

someone over the head with a stick

with a

to get them to do something.

something,

much harder than when you have a carrot.

When someone wants to be there

to be

and they feel engaged and they feel like they

belong to the business's vision,

vision,

going to start giving you discretionary efforts.

effort.

And this is where they

is

are going to be much more willing to come on that journey

and start using the processes.

Because if you tell them they have to use a process, It's like

nobody likes to be told what to do,

what to

but when you can start explaining to them,

explaining

is why we need it

we need

and this is how we're going to use it because it

belongs to this greater purpose of our business, whatever that may be,

may

this is where you're going to start finding that your

staff actually want to be there and they actually want to do the work.

the work.

Does that answer your question?

answer your question?

Yeah, absolutely.

And I, and I think that, that it's, it's very interesting.

I'm going to cross reference a that I've done with, um, a client of mine.

And he was talking about the fact that there's some surveys done recently in his

particular industry where everybody, all, everybody completely admitted that they've

never worked to capacity because they were too scared to work to capacity because

then people would expect that that's what they would be able to do all the time.

Interesting.

It's an interesting mindset that people have because you can't operate

at 100 percent capacity as a human being.

all the

No,

just not possible.

And so, you know, you need to have some leeway in there and you need to

have some ability to up the slack.

But engaging people, your team is so difficult.

And we go back to the beginning of where we're discussing the idea that,

you know, you start this business and suddenly you're hiring people.

And just because you're good at your job doesn't mean that

you're good at managing a team.

And, and there's an obligation that you feel as though, well, it's my business.

I should be good at this.

And sometimes it's square peg in a round hole, really, when you, when

you're doing that, because your, your genius or superpower may be in

something that doesn't, um, doesn't really lend itself to that kind of

level of leadership and engagement.

And that's, that's difficult for a lot of business owners, isn't it?

look, it really is.

And it's not just business owners.

I've recently worked with, um, quite a senior level executive

in a company where she's really been slated to be the next CEO,

CEO,

and

and

he brought me on board to help her learn to manage people.

people.

But

on the journey with me is she doesn't like managing people.

people.

not her thing.

her

So what we realized from that journey was that

was

CEO wasn't the right role for her.

role for

She's much more analytical in terms of her thinking.

her thinking.

it's not her superpower.

not her

And honestly, she scares her staff.

her staff.

You can change that.

You can work on it.

It is an acquired skill, but it's not one that she wanted because

it's not one that would give her

give

a sense of fulfillment.

And for her, it really would be hard work to actually have to be that different.

She's extremely introverted.

She's introverted.

So you are very right.

It's not necessarily a skill of many of many business owners.

Um, I think the real question is do they want it?

If it's not a skill,

a

then is it a skill that they want to develop?

they

Otherwise, they're actually better off bringing what EOS

calls an integrator into the business.

the

So the business owner remains the visionary, remains the

person who works on the strategy.

Maybe they go out and do business development,

development.

somebody underneath them who actually.

who actually

it all happen and manages the people.

Also like a chief of staff.

Think of it that way.

of it that

And I do do that for some of my clients as well.

as

But I also have a very different philosophy in

terms of leading and managing.

So

managing.

grew up and maybe you did too in an era where you came to work at

nine o'clock and you left at five o'clock.

o'clock.

or they'd make you work till seven or eight.

But the point is you had to be there at nine o'clock, not 905.

Or even nine or two, nine o'clock.

And you had to sit at your desk between nine and five.

and

I actually

I

can't personally work that way.

I can't sit still long enough

enough.

more creative.

So my philosophy with my staff, and I will always say this to them,

is I don't, you're not children,

not children.

know, you've got to achieve this job.

This is what I'm paying you to do.

I don't care how you achieve it.

you

If you've got to go and pick the kids up from school

from

or you want to do it

want to do

at a certain other time or in a different way, that's fine.

that's

not here to babysit you.

you.

I also think you're an adult.

I'm going to treat you like an adult, but I am going to hold you accountable.

accountable.

For

So what I'm saying to you is I need you to

be the best that you can be.

you

And I will do everything in my power to help

you be the best that you can be.

can

But I'm also not a psychic mind reader.

mind

So if you know that these are the goals and the measures

that you've agreed to in the business,

the

know that my door is open to you.

to

And if you need my help, I'm here for you, but.

you, but

have to achieve them.

achieve them.

Yeah.

It's, and I, I'm intrigued by all of that because a lot of that comes down

to shifting the mindset of whoever's the leader as, you know, it could be

the owner, but the leader and then trying to shift the mindset of the

people that are underneath them.

And that's, a difficult thing to do, isn't it?

And I've been doing some research

some

around Gen Z at the moment.

moment,

And one of the problems that has been flagged to me with Gen

Z, and it also comes a lot from the social media that they look at, is that

Is

they're constantly being told they have all these rights at work.

at work.

And I've got to worry about my mental health.

So God help you.

If you ask me to read an email after five o'clock,

5 o'clock.

even five 15, you know, that's, that's a no, no.

a no

And the thing about mental health days, I've, I've, I've

got to have a mental health day today because I'm feeling a little overwhelmed.

overwhelmed.

quite the way it works.

way it

A mental health day is when I just can't cope anymore.

And I need some space sort of thing.

sort of

So on the one hand, we have the older generation who

still have this idea that we've got to be like little soldiers who have

to conform to the nine to five.

And

to

literally, we're going to measure how many

minutes you take for lunch.

for lunch.

But then you also have the new generation

coming in, and not all of them.

Obviously, this is a generalization who are like, Oh, well, I need to fulfill

myself and I'm going to work certain hours a day and I'm not going to work too hard.

too

If I have to work too hard, then I'll just go and become a social

media influence and make a lot of money.

a lot of

So there is a grind in terms of all of this.

But what I would say is that

is

it also really comes down to the business's values.

And if you hire to the right values.

Hopefully you're going to get that match between what you need

you need

and

and

ability to actually manage.

to

Not more loosely because believe me, there is accountability,

but manage a system where people feel valued because it's a give and take

give

and they're prepared to give if you are prepared to give.

to give.

What you talked about there about values, it's something that I've

harped on about with people over the years, many, many times.

I'm interested in your take on it because it is a difficult Scenario

to get what the business values might be versus what personal values might

be when it comes into, you know, a business that's been started by, uh,

you know, one person and built up from there, there is a difference, but

there isn't a difference and to some extent as well isn't there and it's,

and it's, and, and trying to make sure that you've got that very clearly done.

I know the whole idea of putting values down used to be the realm of

corporates who just did it to tick a box.

Yeah,

but really, we know that working out your values is

such an important tool to do.

it really is.

And values is a term that's bandied around like strategy,

leadership, almost gets to the point.

We've heard it so much.

We don't even, we don't even hear it anymore,

even hear it anymore.

but values really,

really,

business has a set of values.

fixed values.

The thing is, have they

have they

them and nurtured them strategically to be the right values?

values?

So, I've worked with a number of businesses now where I

walk in on that first day when we do

when

the audit,

the audit,

they have no actual articulated values.

values.

articulated values, and they might rattle off five

words for me that they have.

have,

then they haven't actually written down what it means.

What are the behaviors that support this value

this

and what I call the roadblocks, the rock

stars and the roadblocks.

the

The roadblocks are the behaviors that we don't really

want to see, the uncool behaviors.

And that is the granularity that you actually need.

actually need.

So, One of my clients, they didn't have any values in their business.

They were struggling with a couple of staff members,

members.

owners.

They had two notes.

They weren't keen on doing any sort of personal development discussions, and

they were trying to work out with me, how do we hold this guy accountable?

He's a fantastic operator, really knowledgeable, but

quite toxic to the business.

the business.

was a perfectionist.

He was a bit of a grump,

of a

but not the most pleasant person.

He'd almost come across as rude sometimes to people and upset them.

upset

the way he did things also, just it, things didn't flow

through the business because of him.

because of

So what we did is we

did is

went to the entire team

team.

and we asked them to Pick what their values were.

I have a template for it.

for

then we came back.

I went through all of them.

all of

We really group the similar ones together because there

were themes that came through.

One of the themes, for example, was family

family

for them was the way we actually treat people.

And we treat everybody in our business that way, whether it's our customers,

customers,

our staff, our stakeholders, it doesn't matter.

We would treat them as we would family.

We really careful.

care for.

about having an actual definition, not just a word,

a word.

And then it was about saying, Okay, well, what

behaviors do we want to see

see

support this value?

this value?

from the research we've done with the group, they

had already nominated a few things.

So we were able to start listing things that really supported that.

supported that.

we also said, Okay, well, what is an uncool behavior?

So, for example,

example,

rude to somebody is an uncool behavior in

terms of the family values.

values.

we to really implement values into your business.

You have to have that clarity of a what exactly is the definition?

Because having a word on its own tells you nothing

you nothing.

and then saying, Well, what is it that we want people to do?

Because then you start rewarding people for that and celebrating that.

And what is it we don't want people to do?

people

And what you find is the more you talk about this,

the more your team will actually

actually

themselves.

Police.

I don't particularly like that word, but

that

might say something to you.

Like,

you like,

are you okay?

Because I noticed earlier that you were a bit short with Susan

and it's not like you at all.

you

It's everything.

Okay,

okay?

that's, you know, obviously one of our values that the uncool behavior

behavior.

and that's where you

that's where you

really start getting traction in a high performing culture

performing

when the staff know

staff

very clearly what's expected, what's not expected,

and then they start actually looking out for those things.

out for those things.

It's such an important idea.

So simple, but yet so often, um, done wrong from the beginning.

I mean, I've, I recall this is a number of years ago working with

a client and one of their values.

Is.

Really stood out for me as being something that I questioned because and ultimately

it, it rang true that it was, that it was misplaced was it's, there are often when

you talk about the words and then the explanations, but if you talk about the

words, there are often words that people go, this should be a value of the business

because they feel it's the right word.

And that's what everybody does.

So we should value this.

Yes.

And what actually happened was over the next 12 months as I was observing

the business, that particular value, as great as it was in theory, in practice,

it's not the way the CEO operated.

That's not, that's not saying that he operated badly.

Um, it's just saying that a value.

That he thought was, should be there and should be really important.

And ultimately a lot of messaging and things was built around that particular

wording was simply not true for the way that he operated in the business.

And he was not going to change that.

So that word was just misleading.

And what actually happened was they attracted a lot of staff.

Because of that particular messaging and value, and ultimately they

had a massive turnover of staff.

What's fascinating is that the CEO ultimately left, changed, new people

came in, the values changed, and retention has not been a problem.

Um, and it's just because there was a mismatch, you know, as you said in the

beginning, it's getting it right for, for that, uh, you know, and it's something

that you have to review regularly.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And the thing is, it actually speaks to,

actually speaks to,

I guess, the integrity of the business because if they saying

one thing and doing something else, then there's a lack of integrity.

of integrity.

Um, but you're right about businesses saying, Oh, we need

this as a value in a typical way that I dislike intensely is integrity.

So for me, a test of a value is integrity.

Would it be idiotic not to have this as a value?

as a

I don't, I can't think of any business that could say, Oh no, you

know, we don't worry about integrity.

It's not an issue.

It's, it's, it's a ticket to the game, right?

So for me, that shouldn't be one of the business's values because every

business should have integrity.

integrity.

have a code of honor and they stick to it.

they stick to it.

Um, but it's, it's more about

about

the way, I guess, that.

I

The value is interpreted and it's also about

about

that is true to your core because you have

to have that authenticity of

of,

our value and we genuinely live it.

genuinely

what you're saying is not untypical.

I have seen many businesses.

I worked a lot in mining and consulting for mining before.

before,

there were a lot of businesses where there was one particular

one that I visited that had 12 values.

values.

one of the senior people said to me, Oh yeah, every time the owner,

cause it was a privately owned company

it

of a new one, we just stick it on the wall over there,

one, we

we don't necessarily live to that value.

there.

Actually,

And what happens is it undermines everything in that business.

that business.

Yeah.

And I mean, I love what you say there about the, you know, integrity

as well, because The, the thing is, is that there are things that

should be accepted and staple.

I mean, it, it's, it fascinates me that communication, which should be a core

value of every business because if you can't communicate, then how are you going

to retain clients, suppliers, staff, like those things are all reliant on your

ability to communicate, but yet sometimes.

I feel as though it needs to be there as a reminder and, um, but

I think quite often people don't understand the implications of it are.

But as you say, it's a bit like integrity that you can't have a

business without communicating.

So need these core rules of the game if you like, uh, that need to be there, which

are in addition to the values themselves.

Yes, exactly.

And communication is an interesting one, because what I find is where

is where

breaks down,

down,

usually two reasons for it.

People are not good listeners.

good listeners,

And the other thing is people will

people

not say things because they are fearful of the

potential yucky conversation.

So they could be called courageous conversations, whatever you want to

whatever

call it, but it's usually a conversation where

something hasn't quite gone right.

gone right.

And it may even be something like a PDP or a

colleague may have upset you.

you.

it's about really

really

behaviors and a mindset into the business where

business.

if we've had a disagreement or if I'm offended by something, or

let's say I'm even sitting you down for a performance development discussion.

It's not about hitting you over the head with a stick and saying, Oh, my

gosh, that was just you're an idiot.

Um, that was terrible.

terrible.

got to punish you.

It's about saying, Hey,

saying,

talk about this.

So what do you think went well there?

What do you think didn't go so well?

so

This is, let's say from performance managing you.

an

Now, if you don't immediately say to me, actually, I

reckon that could be done better.

could be done better.

I will then prompt you to say, okay,

say,

I see what you are coming from.

you are

What about this particular area?

How do you feel about that?

And then we'll talk you through it.

And if you still don't see it, I might say, well,

I

from my perspective, I really feel

feel

could have been done this way.

What do you think?

So it's about leading them through a question process where they

process

actually come to the point where they got,

point where

know, what?

You know

You're absolutely right.

Or they think of it themselves.

And that's a very different paradigm too.

I've got to sit down and whack you over the head because you've done a lousy job.

lousy

And that's also not necessarily a yucky conversation either

because there is development in there.

It's not just right.

This is your personal development discussion.

Let's go through the list of 25 things I'm going to wrap you over the knuckles for.

knuckles for.

But if you've got that level of trust where I know I can

come to you and say, look, you know,

say,

when you spoke over me, yes, Today in that

meeting when you interrupted me.

me,

I really felt disrespected or I felt a bit embarrassed.

bit

please next time just watch out for that because you've done

it a couple of times and it really makes me feel this particular way.

Now if I frame something in that context of when you do dot dot dot I feel

dot dot dot can you I'm not coming to you and saying, Hey, you're an idiot.

You keep doing this.

doing

I'm actually owning it and saying, look, I feel this particular way.

Could you please do it differently?

it differently?

that is also

that is

a very useful tool to have those conversations that could

potentially be, I can, we could have a standup argument with somebody over this,

over this.

or you could

Or,

actually approach it from the paradigm of

of,

need to fix this.

Your relationship,

relationship,

matters to me, and I'm honoring that.

honoring that.

It's not that we're best friends, but we work together,

and it's important to me that we have a constructive relationship.

relationship.

it might be that, um,

um,

I have a staff member who I'm working with and developing

and I have this life preserve and I can see they're struggling.

struggling

don't go and tell them that there's something wrong,

I'm actually at fault as the leader

as the

because how can I let them drown if I'm standing

there holding the life preserver?

So

Yeah,

these are the kinds of behaviors when you use

value as an example of, sorry,

of

communication as an example and as a value of a business.

In a business where you can actually start shifting a paradigm

of what that actually means.

actually means.

And it doesn't necessarily mean, sorry, you go

was just going to say, it's so important.

To, for people, you know, in that active communicating, uh, in that

idea is to make people understand what your interpretation of it is.

It's a bit like when you do, when you do a survey and they, and they say, can you

rank me, can you rank whatever out of 10?

Now, there are some people that will only ever give a nine.

it could be the best thing ever, but they will never give a 10 because

they're always holding me back in case there's someone better.

There's all sorts of reasons for it.

So how do you actually work out that that someone's nine is actually

really a 10 for everybody else.

And I definitely I remember working years ago in a business where it

came to Performance review time.

And, um, there was a certain percentage that was thrown up as saying this is what

you can get when the truth was that they never gave that full amount that they,

you know, if if said it was going to be 7.

5 percent they never gave more than 5 percent bonus, uh, you

know, because that was the That was the rules that they played by.

Now, every, if all the staff had have known that that was what it was

like going into it, you would have had a very different perspective.

But if you go into performance review thinking, well,

I've done everything great.

I've been really good all this year.

Everyone's told me I've been great.

And I'm going to get 7.

5 percent bonus out of this.

And they say, you've been really great.

We're going to give you five.

a, it's, it's a really, uh, slap, big slap in your face.

And I think, you know, that's a, a raw example, but that

happens all the time, doesn't it?

In the way that people's understanding of what words mean and what expectations

are That needs to be, you know, on the table and part of the value

system of understanding that you're going to be on that same page.

very much.

So, and I think a lot of disagreements and guffawfuls happen because

people are not on the same page.

page.

there's two,

the

reason I think for that is that

is

They make assumptions.

assumptions.

So I make the assumption that a five means the same to everybody,

or I make the assumption that, you know,

that,

would give something a 10 because it's, it was really good,

really

but I'm assuming you would do the same.

do the same.

So assumptions are one of the biggest things that get in our way.

So I would always say, test your assumptions.

assumptions.

make sure that you've tested them before you go into something.

something.

So

So,

at the beginning, when you start going into the performance

review process, I would say to my boss, what does good look like?

like?

you give, so what would be the best score you would give it

or whatever the question is, but I would make sure that we both understood

understood

were viewed and measured.

and

And look, in terms of performance reviews, there's always

a little bit of subjectivity as well.

as

Um,

Um,

man's poison is another man's pleasure, hopefully in performance

reviews, we're somewhat aligned,

aligned.

still always

would

test assumptions because they can trap you up.

you up.

I don't think you talk about that from an internal point of view, but the same

thing can happen externally as well.

That, uh, you know, if your clients have an expectation at a certain

level and you're not on the same page with that, that also spells trouble.

It really does.

So there's an interesting story.

I was asked to give feedback on, um, a business, a club that I'm a business

club that I'm a member of recently.

recently.

And we were invited by email.

Would you like to come and do it?

I said, yes, I made appointment with the CEO.

a point

It was half an hour.

It was half an hour

And I then had another appointment straight after that,

that.

turned up on time and he was 15 minutes late for half an

hour appointment and I was starting to get antsy because I had to,

I

I knew I had to leave on the dot to get to my next appointment

next appointment

he then turned up and he was quite flustered.

He was clearly having a bad day.

a bad

Um, and there had been an email that had gone out a

few weeks before for a charity event that a friend and I were working on.

His team never responded.

responded.

he came downstairs, I said, Look, no problem.

I know that things happen.

happen.

stay.

But whilst I have you,

I

Can I just ask you, we sent this email a few weeks ago.

No one's responded.

And he was like, well,

and

very busy.

And you

busy

know, we get lots of these requests.

And I said to him, well, I'm actually quite busy too.

too.

But all I needed from you was to say, forget

it, go away or something.

Send me anything, smoke signals, a carrier pigeon, whatever.

Just

whatever,

tell me that you've received it and then

you can't do it because I don't know what's happened with this.

happened with this.

Um, and he calmed down a little bit and then we spoke

for a little bit and then I left,

and then I left.

but he had actually asked me for my opinion and my feedback.

And I genuinely went with the attitude of, I love this place.

I want to help make it a bit better because there were a few

things that could be improved.

be improved.

So that evening I sat down and I thought, well, I'm not going

to go into the city again to do this.

It takes me

takes

half an hour on both ends.

It's just a waste of my time to do it again.

And I didn't feel,

didn't

My time had been respected

respected,

he should have apologized to me for being late and he should

not have been rude to me either.

rude to me either.

So I wrote him an email and it was a very nicely

worded email and I said look

nicely locked.

Your style is very dominant and very direct, and it's incredibly

useful in a number of situations.

situations.

that style is only 9 percent of the population.

of

So please consider

consider

there are 91 percent of the population.

This does not work for.

work

And for me, I really felt disrespected.

And I was quite humiliated the way you treated me.

treated me.

And then aside from that, you've asked me about

how we can make this club better.

make this

a number of emails over the last year to my relationship

manager, to the CEO of the club.

Haven't had a response.

had a response.

I really think that there is an opportunity to improve

the service in this business because

because,

from my perspective and some of the other members,

of the

we never hear from you.

Once we've joined up,

we've

you're so busy trying to sign up new people that

we never hear from you again.

from you again.

And I said, look, you know, I have heard that

in the past it was a bit of a

was a

cocaine and party culture because it's established business owners.

business

I didn't believe any of that.

I chose to overlook it because I believed in you and I believed in

the service and in the membership.

invention.

Oh my gosh.

Oh my

He

he

an email that knocked my socks off.

He told me I was rude.

I was unprofessional.

How dare I, I talk about people's businesses like that.

And I appreciate he was having a bad day, but

day,

he acknowledged that he was rude to me the day before, but he

didn't send me an email that evening saying, I'm so sorry for being rude.

Or even 10 minutes after he was rude to me,

rude

or pick up the phone.

up the phone.

And that should have been an instance where

instance where,

Instead of him saying,

saying,

names effectively, he should have just

he

said to me, I'm so sorry to hear that.

That's really interesting though.

though,

Can you tell me more?

me more?

Because I wasn't calling his business names.

I was literally saying, well, there is.

And for me, if it had been my business, yes, I probably would

have been a bit still taken aback.

But if this had happened in the past

in the

and I knew it, then I'd say, okay, well, You know, we did

have some issues at some point, but

at some

you're right.

We did clean it up.

But that, that's still there that some people are still talking about it.

So tell me more, what else can we do to fix this?

to

Even in the end of the day, if I don't ask that use

everything that person's shared with me.

with

If I'm asking you for advice to then barrack

you, because you've given me

you've

feedback is, is ridiculous.

ridiculous.

So there's got to be a level of trust in any business

and your customers have to be able to come to you and say, look,

and say, Look,

I really think there's an area for improvement in this space.

I'm not saying they've got to come and give you a bollocking.

And sometimes they do.

And that's not really right either, unless it's

either

of deserved.

Sometimes we have to take that.

have to take

But you've got to have a level of trust in the business

in the business

because your customers are going to,

are

your value is transferred down to them.

values transfer down

If you have a culture that's a little bit sour,

where you don't trust each other, where you can't talk to each other,

each

customers in all likelihood are not going to be

able to come and talk to you.

to come and talk to you.

There is so much to explore in, in, in what you've just said there, and I'd

love to do that, but we're going to, uh, our, our listeners are going to end

up going, hang on, we've got to, we've got to get to work, got to do these

Yeah, sure.

Correct.

certainly plenty in that because I think that, um, realistically,

um, Um, what you've talked about just then is such a common problem.

I learned very early on in the piece from a, from a, uh, a very good boss I had

that it's all about the way you respond.

Things will go wrong.

Um, we're human beings, we make mistakes, we get upset, we have outside influences.

But it's how you respond is absolutely everything because that's what you

remember and I've seen too often examples of businesses that do something along

the lines of what you've just described and that's what everyone remembers,

whereas if they'd have turned around and he'd have apologized, as you said, and

You know, they'd done something about that, listened, taken on some advice.

Then the way you would have felt about that business and the way you

would be talking about that business would be completely different.

And, and in fact, one big differentiator would have been you probably would have

actually mentioned the business name.

I'm not asking you to mention the

Correct.

but you would have done if, if the experience is positive,

we're never afraid to really tell people about it when it's negative.

Um, you know, we, we might in a private situation, probably not in a

podcast, go out and say, well, they're a bunch of loonies, but they're, um,

but, um, You know, we do tell people don't go near them, you know, and,

and that's the, that's a problem.

And people, know, I often say to people, you never know what you're missing out

by having poor or no communication.

And that's a really good example of very poor communication.

Even just the opportunity to say, look, I really felt this

way and then we, we sort it out.

Right.

out,

But now this is kind of left in the air.

And every time I go there, I feel a little bit uncomfortable.

So if there's one thing I can leave people with today,

today.

this is something that Harry up and on it, told my dad at his

graduation, kindness and good manners cost

manners cost

nothing.

nothing.

them liberally.

And it works both ways as well.

You know, if in that situation, he just said to me, look, I'm really sorry.

I'm having a really lousy day or a lousy week or whatever the case is.

or whatever the

No problem.

It happens to all of us.

You know, I have, I have shitty weeks too,

shitty

all lousy days.

days.

understand that

And I

we're all human,

all

but I don't know if it's an ego thing that gets in the way.

in the

So yeah, remember you're dealing with humans.

You don't always know what they're going through.

through.

Good manners and kindness literally cost nothing.

cost nothing.

And even in a business, you know, the more you can get that going

in a business, the easier it is to create values that everybody loves and that works

that

business.

the business.

Um, want to give listeners the opportunity to also say that there's ways that they

can get in touch with you and we're going to share that in the show notes, but also

that, uh, you've got a thing called the profit pulse and the five P profit formula

that you've got that, uh, we'll include a link to that in the show notes as well.

So people can get a hold of that information.

um, also I wanted to point out that we're going to have an

extra little discussion about.

How to identify and fix the bottlenecks, uh, in your business

that are holding you back.

We're going to have that little separate discussion in our bonus bit of content.

So again, something else to look forward to in the show notes.

Click on that and we'll get that there.

But I just wanted to wrap up the main podcast with a couple of things.

One, uh, as we talked about right in the intro, you and

I met at a function for B1G1.

And the.

Thing that I wanted to, to ask you about, and for those who don't

know who B one G one are, buy one, give one, look up B one G one.

We'll probably include that as well in the

Love it.

Yep.

Love it.

Yeah.

And go back to the, uh, interview I did in a previous episode

sometime ago with Paul Dun.

It was earlier this year, and you'll hear a lot more about it there.

But talk to me about the importance of impact for you, uh, because

that's what B one G one is all about.

Look, I spent most of my life in corporate and I was stuck there.

I had golden handcuffs because I was raising my child on my own.

His dad died when he was a baby,

when he was a

but it never really

really

genuine to me.

So as soon as I could, I left, which was eight years ago.

I started my own business.

my own business.

And part of that was making a difference and making an impact.

an

So my goal is actually to help a million women achieve financial

freedom or a life on their terms by 2013.

by 2030.

Thank you.

And I was looking for a way to do that.

that,

I wasn't sure.

sure

way forward was, because I've often seen companies put, I donate

to X, Y, and Z on their website, whether they do or don't, one never knows.

And

never

with a lot of these charities, you don't know where

the money actually ends up going.

ends up

But when Paul was introduced to me by a

friend and B1G1 with it,

with

I really fell in love with it because I can actually

donate to projects that are,

that

Doing exactly that.

that.

million women is not just obviously clients,

although that would be lovely.

I don't know how I'd cope with it.

Actually, maybe it wouldn't be lovely.

it would be lovely.

It's also about my speaking.

It's about the impact that I can make.

It's about

it's

I can do to help women with maternal health.

health.

people don't know this, but

this,

something like five jumbo jets of women a day die because

they don't have access to maternal health in third world countries.

countries.

Trafficking is the biggest industry in the entire world.

Human slavery

slavery is

now than in the days before the American Civil War,

Civil War.

and generally it's women and Children.

and children.

It's bigger than the cocaine industry.

It's the biggest industry in the world,

in the world.

and it galls me to think that women's value of the biggest

value monetarily actually is because of

because

sex with us.

You know, there's so much more to it.

much

So I am a very, very big proponent of helping

of

women get an education.

So I will also sponsor things through B1 and G1 like,

and G1

um, providing them with sanitary wear so

that they can stay in school

in school,

or providing them with a bicycle so that they can get to school.

get to school.

Maternal health is another one that's really,

really important for women

really

because whether it's something like, um,

like,

hospital by the river.

I don't know if anybody's ever read that book by Catherine Hamlin,

but by

where these little girls are married off at the age of 12 and

they can't give birth at that age because their little bodies are too small.

But because they strain and the child won't fit through the birth canal,

through the

the child ends up dying and they tear everything down there.

So

they

three or four days later, they pass this dead fetus.

later,

But everything's torn, so they leak, and they get ostracized and

sent to live on the edges of villages.

live on

And they have to live that way for the rest of their life.

way for

And what Catherine Hanlon's hospital's doing is it's actually

providing them with a surgery to fix it.

a surgery to

There was another instance in, um, in the bulge of Africa

where these little girls were being taken off by the rebels and raped.

And then once they had their children, they were no longer useful.

So,

useful.

are operations there to actually teach these girls skills.

girls

And also empower them to understand it's not a shameful thing.

They can go back to their families if they want to.

if

Their families will accept it, so it's also

about training the families.

training the

in instances where they don't, they actually teach them the

life skills so that they can afford

so that they

to look after themselves and their child.

And these are the things, to me,

things,

are making a difference.

a

I was CEO of a children's charity in Australia that provided wishes

to kids who were not actually dying, that was just, they were chronically ill.

they were

And whilst I feel that that's a lovely cause,

cause,

there are much more critical things that

we actually need to address.

need to

And B1G1 helps me do that.

me

it also gives me a community who think like me.

who

And maybe this is why when

this is

and my eyes locked across the room, we have this instant,

like, we've got to speak to each other.

got to speak to each other.

I think so.

I think it's just, it's an amazing community and, uh, and the impacts

that you're making, uh, by doing, you know, those things are huge

and being able to speak about it.

And I think the accessibility to be able to make an impact on that.

Um, I, I feel strongly about B1G1 as, as listeners would know.

I'm lucky enough to have known, uh, Paul Dunn is one of the founders for B1G1.

A long, long time, and, um, every opportunity to speak about B1G1

is, is worthwhile because I per, I personally believe that the best

way to change the world is to make an impact one person at a time, and

B1G1 is enabling that to, to actually happen as well, which is, which is

It certainly is.

Thank you.

Just to wrap things up, one final question I'd like to ask my guests.

What is the, um, what is the big ah ha that clients have with you when

they start to work with you that you wish other people would know in

advance that we're going to have?

Oh, that's an interesting question.

The big aha for me would be,

would be

think one of the biggest ahas comes for them when we actually go

through that initial diagnostic process.

And this is where we'll talk about bottlenecks later on.

later on.

when we actually start strategically looking

at their business, because

business,

of my superpowers is The real ability to look at a business

and think strategically and look at it from different angles and see things

that are right or wrong, but then also see the potential of that business.

of

So working with them, um, the first aha is really

to, to see the low hanging fruit

the low

and realize what they should be saying no to,

saying

and then working with me

working

get a team

get a

sees that as well, and then understands where the

business has to go and gets on board.

and gets on board.

Fantastic.

I love that.

Um, as you alluded to, we're going to have a continued discussion and there'll

be a link to be able to access that on how to identify the bottlenecks in your

business that are holding you back.

Um, but as far as this is concerned, this main podcast, it's such a

pleasure having you on the program.

We covered so much territory and probably could talk for about

another 10 hours quite comfortably.

So, uh, but for now, thank you so much for being part of the podcast.

Oh, it's been my absolute pleasure.

Thank you so much for having me.

pleasure.

Thank you so much for having me.

Alright, well now that we've finished the main part of the

show, we can talk about the

Mm hmm.

So give me a little bit of an insight into, uh, the

bottlenecks that you're seeing that are happening in business and, and

how you actually identify them.

Um, well, I have a product called the compass diagnostic, which is

a half day diagnostic where we really delve into your business and start

looking deeply under the hood as to

the

what the opportunities, the threats, the strengths and weaknesses are.

and

But I think you spoke about my

about

in the podcast that we spoke in or that we chatted in together,

chatted in

that is a mini diagnostic where we actually look at five areas

of your business that contribute to profit, and we start looking for

areas that could be a bottleneck.

that could be a

From my experience in general, number one, people

are the biggest bottleneck.

bottleneck.

I think I mentioned this to you before, but I cannot tell you how many

business owners have effectively said to me that it's like managing a kindergarten.

kindergarten.

And part of that is in fact,

is in fact,

number one, that staff don't take accountability,

Tea.

but that staff haven't necessarily been trained

to become problem solvers.

solvers.

So it's not uncommon for somebody to say to me, all my staff do

come to me with problems continually.

continually.

And the mistake that the leader makes in that instance

is to take the problem and fix it as opposed to saying to that person,