Welcome to the very first episode of Should I Care? - the weekly chat show where we (Sophie Griffiths and Ruthie Walmsley) unpack what's actually happening in the online business world, so you know what deserves your attention (and what really doesn't).

We kick things off with the question Ruthie is desperate to have answered: how did Sophie have her biggest month ever in May when she only posted on her grid five times?

Sophie spills exactly how she did it: ads, emails, wild consistency on stories, and why two pay-in-full clients shifted something in how she thinks about money.

Then things get real: the £6k (yikes!) business class flights to a retreat in Australia, the conversation with her husband that stung, and why spending money on your own wellbeing is the hardest investment to justify, even when you've earned it.

And of course, we have to talk about the thing everyone's talking about: yapping.

We get into the talk-to-camera trend sweeping Instagram, why it's activating everyone's nervous systems (ours included), and what it's really telling us about connection, storytelling and standing out in a world where AI can write anyone a decent caption.

In this episode:

• How we met (it involves a squeal of delight at the pub) and why this podcast exists
• The exact strategy behind Sophie's best month ever: ads, email, and barely any grid posts
• Why pay-in-full clients felt like "cheating" and the trust theory behind why they're showing up now
• The overflow spreadsheet that means Sophie knows she doesn't need to sell anything until August
• Setting a £30k stretch goal to justify business class, and the 10 days it took to actually book
• Why spending on your own wellbeing feels harder than any business investment
• The yap-to-camera trend: bandwagon or genuine shift?
• Why information is free now but your lens, stories and lived experience aren't
• The nervous system work behind big launches (and why volume + nurture both matter)

Next week:

Audience growth, why your second launch can be harder than your first if you haven't restocked your audience, and how to grow yours without chasing virality.

New episodes every Tuesday.

Follow Sophie: @sophiegriffithsco & Ruthie: @firstpersonnarrative

Hello, welcome to the first episode of Should I Care?

With me, Sophie Griffiths, and

Me, Ruthie Walmsley

We are, I mean, so incredibly excited.

We have just spent 45 minutes basically prepping the show and

talking through everything that we're gonna be talking about today.

And what we thought was that we would start with a little bit about ourselves

and how we g- actually know each other, and why we thought that this

weekly show is going to be literally the best thing since sliced bread.

Yeah, so We were just talking about this actually, because Sophie was

like, "How did we actually meet?" And Sophie was actually the first person to

go through an automation that I'd set up for one of my products and services,

and I was at the pub with my friends, and it flashed up, her name flashed up

to say that she'd bought something, and I shit myself because I was so excited.

And then ended up doing, like, a, a storytelling shift session with Sophie,

and that was kind of our first touch point of getting to know each other.

But I would say even that call, when we'd never met before, was an absolute vibe.

Like, I remember it ran over.

I was just having a really great time.

So I think probably that was the seed that started it all of us just liking

to hang out and, and talk about stuff

i'd been stalking her on Instagram consuming all of her

carousels and enjoying them so much.

I was like, God, I think we would just really get on.

wanna kind of bring more storytelling in and work on my storytelling.

So yeah, I booked this power hour, and then I was like, "I think you need to

be the person who is in my mastermind at the time, and my mini mind."

And I was like, "I just want you in there helping all of my

clients." So that's what we did.

And honestly, we are actually quite a vibe.

When I told all of my clients that we were doing a weekly chat show,

the response was just like, "Oh my God, that's gonna be so good. What a

pair." And I was like, "I know. Can you even imagine the energy in the room?"

I got, the same.

So some of the women that are in my little club that also follow you,

they're like, "We are so excited.

This is gonna be so good.

You and Sophie are gonna be such a vibe." I was like, honestly, we basically

got to the point where we were like, "We should just record our calls."

Like, there's, that's the podcast., It makes total sense that we we do this

Yeah, I'm so excited.

So I guess we thought we'd just introduce the, general concept.

I mean, we don't really like being kept in boxes, and we don't really like being

told exactly what we have to do, so we are not committing to any specific

format other than we're gonna show up every single week to talk about what is

going on in our worlds, in the online worlds, in the space of the women that

we work with, and in our own businesses.

And we want to help you, I guess, understand, get an insight into what

should you actually really care about if you want to grow your business, and

earn more money, and ideally work less.

Would you say that sums it up?

Absolutely.

100%. Like, there's just so much content out there.

There's so many things happening all the time, and we're bombarded with it.

And, like, the question that I ask myself quite often is, like, should I care?

Do I actually need to care about this?

And so we're hoping that this can be, like, a useful and fun shortcut to you

finding out whether you need to care about it, if we need to care about

it, and if it's gonna actually help you do the things that you wanna do

Yeah, a hundred, I, and the best thing we're both incredibly nosy.

So we really wanna know what is going on in each other's

businesses, in each other's lives.

Ruthie has already come prepared with like, "Oh my God, you

announced this morning that you're going to Australia on a retreat.

We have to talk about that.

I need to know the background to that." So yeah, I feel like in this episode, we…

Our plan is, I mean, who knows where it's gonna go, but we're gonna talk about how I

had my, best month ever in May, and why it makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable.

why I booked a retreat to Australia, and the work that I had to do on it,

and what my husband's view was on me paying for business class tickets.

And then we're gonna talk a little bit about, yapping, and really not so

much about Jessie's launch, although obviously it was incredible, more about

what it sparked across Instagram, and how we really feel about it and how

it's gonna kind of go moving forward.

We have to talk about that.

Everybody's talking about it, so we have to give it some, some air time for sure

So for me, I would say, like still almost every other post is

someone yapping and tagging Jessie in it or talking about the launch itself.

And then I was on a call the other day and someone was like,

"Oh, I haven't heard of this.

Like, what's going on?" And I was like, "I'm sorry.

Like, I just, I didn't realize that there were sections of

Instagram that wasn't obsessed

Yeah.

this."

I totally thought everyone knew about it as well.

It's so interesting though, isn't it?

Shows you that you, like, these pockets of, like, these little

micro-communities that we think are so big are actually pretty small when it

comes to, you know, the whole internet

Yeah, 100%.

shall we jump into it then?

Where do you wanna start?

I'm gonna start, Sophie, and I think everyone's with me.

I wanna know how did you have your best month ever in May?

Because I saw your Instagram post on it.

I was like, "How has she done that?" I went and looked at your Instagram

and I was like, I don't remember seeing anything about a launch.

I don't really remember seeing her post that much.

So how… I just think people would love to know, like, how

have you got to the point where in May you had your best month ever?

Yeah.

I said, and it, to be honest, it sort of took me a little bit by surprise as well.

Although I did do all the things I do tell clients to do.

So I mean, that's always nice when that happens, isn't it?

So essentially, I did a bit of a trial run in May.

So I wanted to do a workshop.

I wanted to get more people into my program, Outrageous.

However, what I really want to start doing is running workshops every

month, maybe even every fortnight, and I wanna have, like, a super slick

system behind it, and ultimately fill the workshop with using ads rather

than having to fill it using organic.

Because I just find if I'm having to… If I'm running a workshop, I

basically have to do two weeks of, like, posts on Instagram and all over

my stories and emails and everything.

Then I run the workshop, and then I'm like, oh, two weeks of,

like, posts on, like, joining the program, which is absolutely fine

if you're planning to launch.

But I was like, I some of you who are listening will know that I have meant

to be moving house since early April.

I- it all fell through.

I was meant to be relocating, like, two and a half hours away.

It all fell through in the Easter holidays, and it was really stressful,

and it took up so much of my capacity.

And I think it was, like, one of those, you know, I think I will

look back and I've definitely talked about this in content, but one of

those pivot points where you look

Дякую

and you think, "Mm, I had a real realization.

can't carry on doing everything in real time.

I have to have some stuff that can run more without me and doesn't rely on me

posting on Instagram." Because as you discovered when you went and stalked

my Instagram, and when I looked at my stats, I only posted on the grid five

times in April and five times in May.

And I think the reality is, if that's all I was doing to bring clients

in, that wouldn't have been enough.

Like, it

No

you say, they weren't even sales posts.

I think one of them was me chatting about, like, five things I'd bought

for under £100 in that month, and it was, like, my tracksuit bottoms

The tracky B, bringing the clients in

Yeah, from Sainsbury's.

They're really comfy.

So they weren't like, you know, high sales pace.

It wasn't getting loads of conversions off them.

So but what I did do is and I think you commented on this as well, like

I am wildly consistent on Stories.

So I was on Stories a lot.

I was showing up a lot.

I was sharing a lot.

I was sharing a lot about like the house move, like what

was going on with the kids.

I ran my mastermind retreat.

I was sharing about my holiday and how I managed to switch off.

And then I ran a workshop in May, and I primarily filled

it from ads and my email list.

I did send quite a lot of emails.

I then, once the workshop was done, I did selling emails.

I didn't do any selling on Instagram.

I just sold via emails, and only to the people that signed up to the workshop.

Now, all honesty, like in, that in itself didn't produce the results

I necessarily wanted, so I only got one person signed up to Outrageous.

I got two or three more people who were interested, but it

wasn't quite the right time.

So that in itself, I guess, wouldn't have produced the month that I had.

I

a lot of revenue locked in, but it would've got me, it probably

would've got me to about 20K, which is average is around 20K.

Which is amazing and so inspiring.

Like, it, you know, what an amazing total

Yeah.

And it is an amazing total, and I do think what I realized in April when

I, you know, when everything was happening with the house, and I had the

Easter holidays, and the kids were so dysregulated, and it was so stressful,

I really did take a look at my money, and I really kind of got really clear

on, how much do I actually need to earn?

How many people do I need to bring in to, to cover my costs,

to pay me what I wanna, earn?

Because I have a more is more is more mentality, and do know that.

I know that always pushing for more.

So

Yeah

sometimes, though, that means that you never feel like you're

winning because it always could've been

Yeah

I only got one outrageous client.

- How amazing is that?

I got one outrageous client.

Like, it's not a low-ticket offer.

It's like I think they joined the VIP one, so it's like this…

Just, it's over six grand.

Like, it's not a small investment.

so what I worked out is that I needed to bring in two outrageous clients

a month for the rest of the year.

That's all I needed to do, two outrageous clients for the rest of the year, and I'd

earn more than I did last year, and that's like, yeah, that's all I needed to do.

And I cannot tell you how much I think that released for me.

of

Yeah

bring in two outrageous clients.

I mean, the irony is I didn't bring in two outrageous clients from

the workshop, although I did have one join earlier in the month.

So I did bring in two clients in May, what really, I think, turned the month

around is, well, boosted it up to my best one ever, is that I had join my

30-day accelerator, which is a VIP day, and then 30 days of support,

and then someone join my one-to-one, six-month one-to-one, and paid in full.

And it was

Amazing

I was telling you about this this morning 'cause I was

like, "Oh, when someone pays in full, it feels like they're…

I'm kind of cheating if I talk about that revenue."

I don't, like, obviously it's the same.

To me it's the same, and that's like revenue you've generated and something

that you could, that could happen on another month further down the line.

So it's like, y- I know you were like, "I feel like I'm… Am I, am I lying a bit

by saying that?" Like, course you're not.

It's money that went into your bank.

And it's so, like for me, it's so interesting to look at because I would

love to have a business model that would allow me to have injections like that.

Like, you know, it's, and you know, you've already talked about what,

you know, what safety that created for you in having those pay-in-fulls.

And I know that historically you love a payment plan, don't you?

Your, kind of reoccurring revenue and knowing that you've got certain amounts

locked in and, you know, that obviously creates amazing sense of safety.

But I think there's something to be said about a big whopping cash injection.

I'd welcome it personally.

I really, I really welcomed it.

And it's so funny because in the last sort of three months or so,

I've had three clients pay in full.

And I would say up until that point, I've maybe one or two clients,

like really back in the day.

But since I've been like the mastermind I think maybe one, two clients

maybe paid in full for Inevitable.

Like, honestly, I just, I don't get clients paying in full.

And I do have a theory, it's because I very rarely pay in full.

I don't have people paying in full.

It's a really weird self-fulfilling prophecy.

It's like I can't afford to pay in full because I've got like

people pay me in drips, so I then need to pay for things in drips.

And so it's, yeah, I do think like you… Whereas I have some clients

and friends who only really get people paying them in full, and

they would only really pay in full

Yeah.

I wonder what that is.

I wonder if there's something that's, a shift for you,

Hmm.

because I would argue now you don't really get to say, "I

don't have people paying in full." I think if you've had a couple of

months of people paying in full,

Yeah

you know … I wonder, 'cause part of me, as you were saying that wondered,

like, whether it's to do with trust, whether the way that you communicate and

market now builds such high levels of trust that by the time people come to

purchase they've lost the sense of risk.

Like, they think, "Actually, I don't need to worry about whether it's worth

that amount of income going out of my bank account, because I really trust

that Sophie's, you know, got the goods."

Yeah.

Yeah, that's so true.

It definitely could be that.

It's, I find it fascinating, and I to say, I have really enjoyed it.

Like, it, there is

Yeah

there is a mega buzz of seeing, like, that amount of cash, I mean, it's

just over 14K, in your bank account from

Oh my gosh.

I'm like simultaneously so happy for you and also just like a, a little bit jealous

wild, yeah.

I know.

it's… And I do think money, like, it really brings up a lot, doesn't it?

Like,

Yeah.

sometimes will be following people had really mega months and

they're talking about their money, and it brings up a lot in me, and I'm almost

like, it almost repels me from them because, of my own stuff, not because

of the judgment I'm putting on them.

But that feeling of like, "Oh, I couldn't, I could never do that,"

or like it feel- I don't know.

There's just something… You know, if you don't feel like you

can get that, it get that it feels really, really uncomfortable.

Yeah.

and I-

I think on the whole for me, I find it, especially when at the sort

of level that you're talking about, because obviously sometimes, and I've

got clients who are in this income where it's like we've just done a

you know, million pound launch, and I've got a mailing list of this many.

And you can be like, "That feels so far off for me

Yeah

I don't know how to get myself there."

Whereas I think when you're presented with a business model that's you, you

haven't got a huge team, you're not operating with this massive kind of team

behind you who are running things for you.

You are a mum, you've got a busy life, you wanna work as little as possible,

you know, in a lot of you wanna have a really fantastic work life,

but also be able to live your life.

So for me, when you talk about those money, and you're, you're

obviously really, really transparent about money on your account, on

socials, I can't, get enough of it.

I'm like, "Yes, give me that," because it, it's inspiring me to

think, "Actually, I've got no excuse.

You know, I'm- I've got no excuse to not be able to do that."

And, and you're sort of showing that it's possible, which is why I've got

such a passion for people sharing transparently about earnings and stuff

because I just think actually what it does sometimes, yeah, sometimes it can

be a bit off-putting and, and you bring stuff up, but at the same time, it is kind

of like really, like, aspirational to be like, "God, you know, that's possible."

And, and you're not, you know, you're not also doing 70 hard.

Like, it's not like you're getting up at 5:00 in the morning

I'm

and like- … I see you working out and then reading your s-

you know, I, I can look at, you share enough about your day-to-day life on

stories for me to feel like, okay, yeah, there's parity there as well.

So it does open up possibility for, for me.

I know that, you know, I jest and say I'm jealous, but that is

mostly because I would love to get £14,000 landing in my bank account.

How exciting.

And so what are you doing for next month?

Like, are you feeling any pressure to be like, okay, is this the new normal?

Because I know you mentioned earlier that April was a really good month as well.

Yeah, April was a really… So April was my best month until I had May.

Just omnipotent

Just always onward, upwards, yeah.

Yeah, am I feeling pressure?

No.

Do you know what?

In April, when I worked out that I needed two outrageous clients a month,

what I did was I set my s- I have a spreadsheet with all my numbers in

because I am quite obsessed with numbers.

Like, I am a real numbers girl.

My degree was psychology which sounds really like, fluffy, but actually

it's incredibly data driven, as well as, like, you have to be able to

write things and interpret things, and then explain it really clearly.

So I do think that kind of has a lot of the background of how I kind of work now.

Anyway, I'm obsessed with numbers, and what I did was I set myself

up with a spreadsheet that doesn't just look at the month, it looks

at the overflow each month.

So what I can see in my spreadsheet is that I… much money is coming

in, and then how much my costs are, and how that money will

then carry over to future months.

So at the moment, I know that I don't need to bring in any more sales.

I don't need to sell anything until August, and I've got about

a 2,000 pound gap in August

Isn't it?

That's amazing.

Like, even,

I know.

I, like, that feels

that is amazing.

Wild to me.

Like, I can't tell you how wild that feels to me.

But I honestly think that knowledge is just allowing me to

just chill the fuck out so much

Yeah.

because

Yeah

to push, I'm not stressing about a launch.

Like, this month, June actually is, like, real fun month for me.

Like,

Yeah

about the retreat, I'm, like, doing VIP days with clients.

We've started doing the podcast.

I am about to start talking about my, like, summer challenge that I'm about to

do, which is more about, like, being a fun mum rather than anything business related.

So I, yeah, I just feel like there's a lot of fun stuff, and I, I don't

doubt that I will have sales.

Like, I don't doubt that I will get clients, but it's not sort of

consuming me at the moment in the way I- it definitely has in the past

To be honest, that's something you've talked

about loads anyway, isn't it?

That, like, once you can get yourself to, like, a position of nervous system safety,

like, where you're not in that constant, like, "Oh my God, I need this energy,"

Yeah

actually… Because, and, and also as you were talking then, I was

thinking, you know, you're, you're calling it fun, but, like, my marketeer

head's going, "That will be doing so much to produce, like, the next load

of people that are ready to buy."

Like, you're seeing it as almost like, "Oh, I've got some spaciousness to do

some things that I really wanna do and, and have fun doing." But at the same

time, because you can give that sort of activity attention because you're

not actively like, "I need to get this client," or, "I need to do this

project," you're c- you're moving people further and further into trusting you,

loving you, consuming your content.

And then when you do next sell something or have a, have something that you

want people to, to look at buying, you've got, like, this you know, to

coin your phrase, you've got your super fans, you know, ready and waiting.

So yeah, it's really, I find it really, really inspiring.

Have you ever, have you set yourself, like, a target of, like, what, what you'd

love your next best month to look like?

No, I haven't.

Do you know, I don't really.

I'm very much like as long as I've covered my costs, I feel like

Yeah

happy.

So I've never really set myself goals in terms of revenue.

However, I guess it's probably a nice classic little segue into the retreat.

So I normally set myself goals of, like, how much would I need to bring in over X,

Y, Z period to allow me to invest in this?

Because I am such a serial investor.

I just fucking love spending money.

just, I can't

I agree with you

it's such a buzz.

I love working with incredible women.

I think, I actually can't remember the numbers now, but I did a post in March

on International Women's Day about how much I'd invested in women over the last

year, and it was, like, over 100,000.

I can't remember the exact

Yeah, it was, it was a huge amount

it was a huge amount.

And yeah, okay, like, I like buying stuff, like, I like going to in-person

days, I like working with coaches.

But I also invest in, like, my team and like, all sorts of women.

And so really, honestly, my goals generally are around much do I need

to earn to be able to spend this?

Okay.

Love that

So my biggest goal was to be able to have enough financial safety to be able

to… So I'm in The Mastermind with Elly Swift, who is based in Australia in Perth.

so she is running a Mastermind in October.

And first I was like, "My goal is just to have enough, like, revenue in place

and, like, you know, with my husband and make sure the kids are okay. Could

I actually go?" The actual retreat itself isn't overly expensive, so

it's about, I think it's, like, 1,000 Australian dollars or something like that.

It's three days.

It's in it's, like, south of Perth, like, by the beach.

I mean, it go- looks incredible.

Oh, sounds amazing

River, I think, for anyone who knows the area.

So it, that in itself, that's, like, an investment I would make relatively easily.

But obviously we're in the UK we're in the UK, and I started

Yeah

Flights actually to Australia at that time of year, I could

have got flights for about 1,500 pounds if I'd gone in economy.

so therefore, overall, you're looking at, like, two and a half grand, plus

obviously when I'm out there food and accommodation and stuff like that.

But I was like, "Actually, that's not, that's not wild.

I've paid for retreats around that level before.

I, I could save for that." then the trouble is, I used to work for

British Airways and and because I used to work for… Yeah, I was I

was the head of premium actually in, terminal three and terminal five.

Head of premium, which meant I had a team of, like, 350 people, and team generally,

'cause I didn't work shifts, but the team operationally were responsible

for all of the premium customers.

They're responsible for, like, business class check-in, first class

check-in, the lounges, onboarding.

And then they, they… I had this incredible team called Special Services,

and they dealt with all of the royal movements, the celebrities, like,

Oh, stop

Yeah, honestly, a lot of stuff there.

Also, you get incredible benefits when you work for an airline.

I haven't flown long haul in economy for a really long time.

Oh my God.

You are so unrelatable right now

so unrelatable, I know, and honestly it's pa- it's painful.

yeah, I have only flown business or first class in long haul for a really long time.

And I also think it ruins you because when you know how good it is how

much of an impact it has, it takes on, like, a different dimension.

It, because it becomes not just something like, "Oh my God, I'd never pay that

for a single, you know, whatever, 12 hours," to, "Oh my God, I can

really see why that's worth it." so

I, can I interrupt and tell you that one of my favorite things to watch on

TikTok is content of people giving a tour of different airlines and their different,

like, business class, first class, and it's on my business bucket list.

I don't really set many goals, but it's on my business bucket list to

one, at one point to have earned enough income in my business to be able to

pay for me, my son, and my husband to fly somewhere business class.

I've just… It's a life goal for me, so I'm so, like, I love this content.

Tell me more

there's gonna be so much content.

So I'm flying with Singapore Airlines and I've got five hours in their

flagship lounge in Singapore, and I can't tell you, I, I cannot tell

you how excited I am about that.

But essentially, the goal I set myself was, I've never hit, I've

never hit 30,000 in cash in one month.

So

Nice.

a, that's just like a super stretch for me.

I was like, "If I hit 30,000 this month, then I will book business class

tickets," which for comparison are just over 6K versus the 1-and-a-half

K. I didn't really… I don't know.

I- maybe it was manifestation.

I don't know what it was.

Because if those one-to-one clients hadn't paid in full,

then I probably wouldn't have hit

Yeah

it.

But they did, and so I was like, "Oh my God," like literally the universe

is telling me that I need to do this.

So yeah, I booked business class flights.

Oh, God, I'm so excited for you.

so excited for me too.

I,

you nearly bottle it?

Did you feel like maybe I should… Like, was there any part of you…

Obviously you'd set that goal and that intention, but was there any part of

you that was like, "Oh, but now I've got it," you know, "Should I do it?"

Oh my god, massively.

It took me about 10 days to actually book the flights.

And honestly, like, so my own nervous system at like, I think it's your own,

I guess, bar of like how much you're willing to pay for, for something.

And obviously when I used to fly with British Airways, like I didn't pay

that amount because it was on the…

You know, I was paying like £300 for a first class return to Dubai.

Like I know.

So it's like, it's not like my… Although I have traveled in business and first,

like my nervous system isn't used to paying this amount of money for, to do it.

and then I had a conversation with my husband, who is wildly

supportive and, but, he really found it hard to to co-sign this.

Like he really found it hard to get behind me on it.

it was really interesting because , when I put it in context of other

investments, like I paid five and a half K for the mastermind house in April.

I have paid way more than 6K to work with mentors for like six months.

I have, I've paid lots of money in lots of different things in my business,

he wouldn't flinch But because it

Yeah.

I think he could… It, was, it felt real to him in a way

that those other investments don't.

Yeah, like

said to me, yeah, he said to me "That just, that is the price of our

family holiday that you are, you are gonna be spending on those." I know.

And it really stung, and I really found it hard not to be defensive.

And,

Yeah

and if he was gonna spend it, I don't know how, I don't know how, how much

Yeah

to be on, just be like, "Yeah, go for it, babe. Spend that

money." Even though it's my business, it's my money, like he never really

interferes with what I spend.

I mean, honestly, half the time I don't even tell him.

It was

Yeah

such a, when I told him I was flying business class, he was like, "Oh,

how much is that gonna cost?" Because it's something that he can relate to.

Like he

Yeah.

Like with the retreat and stuff, it's like outside of day-to-day life, isn't it?

It's like in this little online business world you can use that

language and, and some people know and some people don't, but it, it

doesn't necessarily have like a, a like for like equivalent in day-to-day

outside the online business world.

And I guess, I mean, that must have hit your, like, mum guilt, wife guilt hard.

Yeah

How did you… Like, what did you say?

I mean A, we are having a family holiday this year.

Yeah.

So it's not like

Yeah.

Yeah

I mean, essentially I had to work it through.

I was like, it's a… I mean, it's a valid point.

However, it's also not valid in a lot of way.

Like, your- Mm … the emotion you've got around this is valid,

and I totally accept that.

But, you know, if I was to take out that 6K from the business to

pay for a family holiday, it's not.

It's not 6K, because I'd have to pay a

No, no

on it.

Like, it would, you know, it, it would probably be more like

50% of that, like maybe 3K.

And I think the thing is It's an investment in the business, because

obviously I'm going to a retreat.

I have no doubt that I will get a return on my investment for the overall

money that I'm gonna spend on it.

I think the challenge was that it's actually an investment in my, in my

wellbeing, in me, so that I can, you know, get there and feel rested and, you know,

not be too tired and not find that…

I'm traveling on my own, so, like, just feeling, I guess, safe.

Like, I'm in Singapore Air- port for five hours.

Like, I don't just wanna

Yeah

hanging around on my own.

Like, it felt… So it's an investment in my wellbeing, and I think had to

do quite a lot of on, in my, like, on my nervous system and on my mindset

that that is a valid investment

Yeah.

I think it's hard, isn't it?

Like, I think, I'm always, I- I'm always wondering, like, how much,

as women in business, we, we sort of, like, do we overcomplicate

these decisions for ourselves?

Like, are we harder on ourselves?

I know so many, you know, my dad worked in corporate, my sister works in

corporate, and those sorts of decisions are, like, almost, like, non-negotiables.

And I wonder sometimes when we're operating our own business and it

all g- it's all really interwoven, like personal and business

becomes so, like, interconnected.

I think sometimes we, like, create these decisions that when they're about us, so

a lot of the, a lot of the other examples that you gave were, like, about your

clients or about you, your development.

But when actually the only thing we can say is that we're investing because it's

good for me, like, on a personal human level, it's good for me to do that.

All of a sudden it becomes like it's a luxurious item or it's

spoiling yourself or the money would be better spent elsewhere.

And, like, part of me just thinks, how else is better to spend the money

than you arriving back home feeling, like, rested and maybe with a nice

new pair of White Company pajamas.

Like, who knows what's gonna be in those goodie bags?

Like, that is an investment, but we are so, like, conditioned and

trained to believe that we have to be operating with, like, you know,

minimum attention to ourselves, like always putting other things first.

So I'm like s- I think it's so amazing that you've done it for yourself.

I wonder, like, I, I also think it's interesting that you had to sort of give

yourself a really stretch financial target to be able to justify it even to yourself.

Yeah, 100%.

interesting.

And but yeah, again, just like really inspiring to think and, and like I do

hope, 'cause we were talking about this in one of our chats, like how you're

kind of like a more is more person.

Yeah

And, like, I do hope you do have like a moment on that flight where you're

like, "I did this. Like me, myself and I, like, I've created this environment

for myself in what I've achieved and what I've been able to, to do in my

business," just like on your own.

Like, I know you have people that help you, and I know that your

husband's support is massive in, in allowing you to, to do what you do.

But still, like, I hope you do have a little moment where

you're like, "I am the shit."

Yeah.

Yeah.

I did.

And I do think that, like, I do f- like endlessly think, "How,"

like, "How have I done this?

This is incredible." Like, I think, I actually think actually hearing

you talk then, one of probably the biggest challenge of the whole thing

that I could have done it cheaper.

It was like, I am making an active decision here.

That's not the price of the flights.

It's not like, oh, you know, you have to pay 6K to get to

Yeah.

just is what it is.

It's like you are making an active decision between paying the, you know,

basically like five grand more to

Yeah

and like, and having to make that intentional

choice to protect my wellbeing.

And I do think that is a theme, I think of this year, of like maybe the last year

or so, of where I've had to do that on a much smaller level over and over again.

So like

Yeah

I go to the gym on a Monday morning at 7:00 AM,

isn't an easy choice to leave my husband to get the girls ready.

Like, they don't love it when I leave the house in the mornings.

They much prefer it when we're both at home getting them ready.

You know, every time that I, yeah, go to a retreat or I do an in-person day or

I stay overnight somewhere, like it's, it's a lot and yet I do keep doing it

because it's the only thing that keeps me moving forward, that protects my health,

that like ultimately, and I think as business owners, like we are the business,

so if I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna protect my health, then no one else is.

So I

Yeah

like putting those line in the sand to say, "Actually, it's

non-negotiable." Like, I have to do that class on a Monday morning and I'm not,

I'm not gonna not do it because, you know, they, kids would prefer me to be at home.

hard balance.

Like I, I've started exercising over the past year.

It's not something I've ever been able to get consistent at, but over

the past year I have been able to get consistent with it, and it's so difficult.

Like, I will still say, "Oh, is it okay if I…" And my husband's like,

"Why?" My husband's very disciplined with exercise, goes every morning at

stupid o'clock, and, and like, I'm like, I almost ask for permission,

Yeah

he would never…

I, I wouldn't expect him.

He's like, "Oh, I've got- I'm going boxing at this time," or whatever.

But I still feel like sometimes I'm asking permission, and every time he's

like, "You don't need to ask permission. Of course, you can. Like, please, like,

do what you need to do." But there's just, like, I think we're just taught

to, to do that, and I think, you know, I, I think as a millennial, I'm like,

I'm very aware that I grew up with this idea of, like, having it all.

Yeah

but having it all, a lot of the time if you try

and do it all just is burnout.

It, it, it actually, you know, you have to find ways to, like, put yourself first.

And so whilst it- I'm sure it feels, like, extravagant and took a lot of,

like, convincing, that is actually what you're doing with that flight.

On the one hand, you're celebrating an amazing thing that you've done.

Just like you would get a bonus in corporate, you're celebrating

y- you're doing something that celebrates and marks that.

But also, like, and equally you are prioritizing your wellbeing, and, like,

bloody hell, we should all be doing that

Yeah.

And I think especially as like, as business owners, but as women and

moms, and I always like say, " I want my children to see me.

They might not like it, but I want my

Yeah

me prioritizing exercise.

I want them to see me prioritizing, you know, like going out with my friends.

I want them to see me prioritizing, like doing what I wanna do

in my business and growing an

Yeah

business."

Because ultimately, like that's the blueprint and role model.

Like, I want them to prioritize their rest, and their health, and

Yeah.

and, and

Definitely

what they want as their… Even if they don't like it now

Yeah.

I saw something online, you know, like these inspirational quotes and stuff.

I'm such a sucker for them.

love it

And it was basically about how, like, your children don't treat

themselves the way you treat them.

They treat themselves how you treat yourself.

Yeah.

So it's kind of like, doesn't matter what you say, they're gonna learn

by seeing what you do, how you behave.

And so, yeah, I think it's, you know, it's something you talk about quite a

lot but, like, I think daily, like so many of us are, like, in negotiations

with our nervous system all the time

Yeah

of, like, how do I do this?

Like, Have I got it left in me to do this?

Can I do another launch, or how can I set up my business?

And it, and it, you know, I think anything that we can do that just helps us stay

in charge of that balance is, you know, worth an extra five grand if you've got it

Exactly.

You're worth it,

She's worth it.

It.

Incidentally, I'm free to come with you if you you know, if you do need

a company on that business class.

Yeah

I'll just be there with my phone

Just like try, I mean, I will be, obviously will be

like documenting every single

Please do

I'll have to tell people, "Don't follow me," if they can't bear it.

'Cause I,

Yeah, it might be

like…

a couple of weeks

Yeah, exactly.

Just two weeks, just let me have my fun, and then I promise we'll move on.

But I actually think what's really interesting in terms of nervous system,

has been… I have felt my nervous system activated quite a lot the last, well,

I would say the last week to 10 days, with the whole content around yapping.

And, you know, obviously Jessie Gene's incredible launch,

Amazing

yeah, we are totally here for it.

And I think, in all honesty, she has demonstrated how your super

fans are the ones you need to build.

I mean, she's done an incredible job of growth and connection, and I think

that's what, that is a real challenge for most of us, is to actually get

the, the volume of people in, and the growth, feel connected to them, you know,

stay present, not freeze from the, you know, from the kind of the exposure.

And I know, you know, as I imagine most people listening to this will

be very familiar with the launch

Yeah

over my Instagram.

But… And there's been, it's been looked at, I think, in all different angles, we

can learn from it, like what she did, h- how she did it, how it's… Some people,

I think, are finding it quite challenging 'cause they've been teaching talking

to camera for quite a long time, and it feels like maybe like, "Well, this

feels a bit unfair." I, well, the way

Where's, where's my 1.2 million?

Exactly, where's my 1.2 million?

The way I've been looking at it is that have felt like,

oh, I want to talk to camera.

And I do do some talk to camera reels already.

Like, I'm not… I definitely have used them in the past.

And way back in the day, I used to do a weekly Instagram Live

called Tuesday Tea and Tips.

And so I might, I'd say I'm fairly comfortable in front of the camera.

But it's definitely something I wanted to do more of anyway.

But I have felt I don't know.

My nervous system has felt really activated over the last week

about whether I should be doing, doing… Should I do more now?

I've seen lots of people saying like when, "Oh, when everybody zigs, like you

then I'm like, oh, maybe I shouldn't be doing talk to camera reels because I, I

Yeah

more casa 'cause I don't just wanna follow, everybody else.

But then also, I've already, I already do do some talk to camera reels.

But then if I put talk to camera reels out now, is everyone thinking that I'm just

gonna, I'm just jumping on the bandwagon?

And, and maybe what I'm saying needs to be more interesting,

or more funny, or it needs to

Yeah

virality.

And I don't know.

I think it's, it's, I think it's brought up a lot for a lot of people

Definitely, and myself included.

Like I, I was definitely in the camp of like, you know, I, I told this story

actually where when everyone really liked the band Arctic Monkeys, I just couldn't

bring myself to like them even though they're great and I was completely wrong.

I was just like, "I can't," because you're all hyping it so much

that you're putting me off it.

And like, I definitely initially had that reaction where I was like, "Oh

gosh, yeah, everyone's talking about it. Just, like, stop." But then, you

know, I sort of challenged myself to be like, "You're a storytelling strategist.

This is a form of storytelling." Like she's actually, if no- you know,

among other things, a masterclass in storytelling is, is what she's doing.

Yeah

so I was like, "You've gotta come over your resistance." Like how can you

educate people if you're just saying, "No, I can't do that because I don't wanna be

on a bandwagon." Like, get over yourself.

So I've, I've been doing it, not wholehearted- not every day, not

all of the prompts, not anything.

But I think, like, it's really good and, I am finding myself a little bit

eye-rolly and I hate that about myself.

I'm like, "Stop doing that." Like stop eye-rolling at when I'm, like,

seeing other people creating content.

Like my inbox has been full of people talking about the YAP Challenge

and I'm like, "Stop it," 'cause that's just like cash cowing.

Like, that's piggybacking on someone else's momentum and I don't wanna do that.

But it is, it's interesting in what it's forcing people to do because

we can… I was in a membership and as part of the onboarding you got a

mug that said, "Social media isn't an admin task." And I think when

we're doing, like I love a carousel.

When we're doing a carousel or something in Canva, you can find yourself going

through it as like a task that feels like admin, and then you tick it off your list

and you feel like, "Oh, that's good 'cause I've got three posts out this week."

But you can really, really, if you're not careful, keep

your audience at arm's length.

Like it's all very, "I'm safe here. Here's some information that I'm prepared

to share with you." I've done it.

I do think there's a level with this YAP Challenge and what people are creating

where some of that protection has, has been removed and they're kind of having

to create content that is more meaningful.

Because when you're putting yourself on camera, you've gotta have something

to say, you've gotta have a point of view or a story that you're sharing.

So I am really excited by that for people, 'cause there's people that I've been

following for years who the level of, the level of intimacy I'm getting from their

content has just accelerated tenfold.

I'm like, "I didn't know that about you.

I actually didn't even know that that's what your mannerisms were like, 'cause

I've only ever seen you in polished.

I've never seen you kind of in a kind of more candid state." So yeah,

I, I think, I think it's really interesting to watch it play out and

watch what people are creating when kind of the, the camera's switched on

Yeah, I totally agree.

And I think I say to people, like, you know, the first step is getting people

into your world, so I might suggest ads or, you know, if you use organic.

But the second step is to help them get to know you.

And the quickest way, to help someone get to know you is to let them hear

your voice, like see your face.

Yeah

that might be, you know, master classes, and in the

past I've done Instagram Lives.

And it might be, you know, stories.

But I do think having in your toolkit the ability, and it might, like you

say, it doesn't have to be every day.

It doesn't have to be the only format you do.

It doesn't have to be, like, everything.

But I do think having in your toolkit the ability to go on camera and yap and

that there is definitely something about having to organize your thoughts into

Yeah

that's like not, not… I think it relies less on that

hooky hook thing, doesn't it?

Mm. And it's more about this, like, but is this story interesting?

Is this angle interesting?

Rather than like, am I gonna say the right four words as I

Yeah.

And I think

And it's the curiosity it creates.

It's the, the nosiness.

Like, we are, you know, hold your hands up nosy people, and I

think so many people online are.

And so sometimes I'm just… What it does that is, again, like a

shortcut, is it creates curiosity.

I'm like, "What are they gonna say? What are they talking about today?"

Like, and, and in businesses like mine and yours, where, you know, actually so

much of what makes the buying decision for people is, like, who you are.

Like, can I imagine being in a Zoom with Sophie?

Am I gonna feel intimidated?

Am I gonna feel nervous?

Like, I know that my personality can be too much for people.

Like, actually, my first day, when I was a teacher, my first day in the

staff room, I went and I had no one to sit next to, didn't know anyone.

Went and sat next to this woman.

And I was just like, "Hi." And she was like, "Oh, no, I can't deal with you.

You're too much." And she got up and moved.

And I was like, I know that I have that impact on people.

And so actually, talking to me and me talking to camera will give you the vibe,

and you can make a call, and it will pull some people in, and it will reject others.

I think I was saying to you earlier, when I was an English teacher, we used

to study the interview techniques of Michael Parkinson and Jonathan Ross.

And yes, some of it, and like how they built rapport with their guests, and yes,

some of it was, like, the questions that they asked and the words that they used.

But so much of it, the, the technical term was paralinguistic features,

but actually what it meant was, like, body language and mannerisms.

And, like, another great shortcut of, of us yapping to camera or whatever

you wanna call it, is that people get to really imagine what it would be

like to be in an interaction with you.

Like, really imagine, could I imagine being coached with this person?

Could I imagine this person telling me what to do or giving me advice?

When it's just information on a page, they can get a sense of that.

But I do think yapping to camera is just, like, such an acceleration

of that, that rapport-building that we're all trying to create.

Like, with your super fans, you know, that's, that's what we're

trying to get to, to get them warm enough to trust us to buy.

Yeah.

Well, I, yeah, I totally agree.

And I do think So much more now, especially with AI . Like, I love Claude.

I use AI a lot.

However, do feel like, you know, we're gonna have that curve, aren't we, of

like everybody's using it to create content, and it all sounds a bit samey.

And then- Yeah

Yeah

getting to the point where you're like, "Oh yeah, maybe actually

it takes longer to just do it in Claude. Maybe I'll just write it myself." I

do think in terms of standing out and helping people understand why, why you.

You know, 'cause

Yeah

like loads of people teach ads.

Like, the, what I teach is not, you know, it's not totally unique

in terms of the actual content.

it is about, you know, me and how I teach it, and how, you know, you might

work with me, and the fact that I talk really fast, and I love trashy TV,

and I like salted butter, and I like, you know, go to the gym, but I have

two children that are neurodiverse, and I have an ADHD diagnosis.

Like, that is very different to, let's say, someone who is single,

no, no children, who is, like, going to Soho House every day and, like,

flying across the world and, you know,

Yeah

strict nutrition regime.

How we could be teaching exactly the same thing, and yet you're

gonna be drawn to one or the other of us for whatever reason.

And I just think,

like, the more you can give people that info, the easier it

is for them to make decisions

Totally.

I just, I always, I t- I talk about this all the time.

I say, I think everyone's just, like, anxious cucumbers.

We're just full of anxiety and water, and we're just making decisions, like, often

invisible, silent decisions about Like, is it safe for me to talk to this person?

And we've all got this like, "I don't wanna be the first

person to put my hand up."

And I think so often with our marketing, we're sort of, we're standing here

giving our marketing, the customer or ideal client's here, and we're expecting

them to do so much of the hard work to find out about us, to understand more

about who we are and what we stand for.

Whereas I think when… And, you know, Yap does this and, and

storytelling in general does this.

When we start giving them more.

I mean, I've been lucky enough to work with quite a few women

via your program, so I've, I've coached in your programs, I've done

one-to-ones with some of your clients.

And, and so many of them, Soph, do not know the name of the program they're in.

know.

Tired

I will name it, and I'll be like, "Okay, so you're here today

because you are in Inevitable or Outrageous" or whatever it might be.

And they're like, "Oh, is that what it's called?" And the reason that they're

in there is because they've built such a kind of moral contract with you that

they just bought what you were selling.

They were like, "Yes, I trust that Sophie's the right person

to guide me." But they've got no idea what the overarching name is.

And again, like, when I've spoken to them and I've said, "You know, Sophie's

a really good example of if you track back why you ended up spending X

amount of money to buy one of Sophie's programs, what was it?" And often

it's, they've got strands of things that they could really relate to.

"My life's really busy and I can see that Sophie's is, and if she

can do it, I can see that she could be a good person to guide me.

I've got children, who are neurodiverse, and so I think she'll understand

that pressure that… and some of the situations that could occur there."

And so they've, they've got these connections and these moments of where

they've got, like, the deep sense of relatability with you that changes the

way they make purchasing decisions.

And I think, you know, whatever people wanna say about the Yap to Camera,

no, she's not teaching anything new.

But is she forcing us to maybe get a little bit more

vulnerable with our content?

A little bit less admin-y, a little bit more thinking about how we build

that human-to-human connection.

And I think the timing of it with everything that's happened

gone with AI is just perfect.

So I am here for it.

I do eye roll when I've got a lot of, my feed is very Yap heavy.

My s- my own content included, and I have to stop myself from cringing because

I think, actually, I fundamentally do agree with what's happening here and,

and she's done a fantastic job of it.

Yeah, I think it's, it'll be interesting to see.

It's quite a long challenge, so it'll be interesting to see how it kind of maps

out and, and how people get on with it

Yeah, I agree.

And I do also think like daily for six weeks is fucking mental.

Like, I would, like I'm not, I'm not going to be posting.

And I do think like, you know, the flip of that in terms of why I brought you

into my programs and why my clients love you so much is because you're not like,

"Right, if you're gonna be good at social media, like you have to post," you know?

I mean, who in their right mind is posting every single day?

I mean, I know it's a challenge and, and that's not necessarily what she's saying.

But you know, even that like you have to post three times a week, and you have to

make sure you hit these pillars, and you have to do this, and you have to do…

I think the whole reason why we go and say well is because actually

it's like here's a, here's a premise, here's some ideas, here's like the

Yeah

thing, and then like make it your own.

Use the structure and like make it your own, not like you

Definitely.

this rigid box where you're doing X, Y, and Z, otherwise you're gonna fail.

And I just think those days are over.

I've … Whenever I see, like, a straightforward kind of

educational post that I'm sure hits so many content pillars, I'm

sure has got a proven successful hook, I'm like, I c- I literally

Yeah.

do not wanna read that.

No

I've got no interest in it because information now is everywhere.

We can ask AI anything, and it will give us a, a really

great answer most of the time.

So information people can get for free or with a, you know, low-cost subscription.

What they can't get is, like, your lens on it, your perspective on

it, your lived experience of it.

They can't get that through AI, and so we have to, like, we have to lean into that.

Storytelling is, like, the tale as old as time.

Like, it's how we know anything.

And so I just think never has there been a better time for us to be

leaning into our stories and, and, you know, giving yap to camera a go.

Like, I think it is something we should care about.

I think there are lessons.

Even if we're feeling resistance to the bandwagon or feeling resistance to the

fact that it's everywhere and everyone's getting a bit, "Oh, God, I'm seeing

this a lot," should I care about it?

I think you should, 'cause I think it's telling us something about

what's going on online at the moment and how people are feeling

and what people are connecting with

Yeah.

I totally agree.

And I think one of the things that Jessie has said quite a lot is that,

and the reason probably it is a six-week challenge and it's daily, that it's

the reps that will give you the answer.

And so it's like, it's never about one single post.

It is about that like just turning up again and again and again.

And I do think one of the things that I thought was really interesting

about her launch is that, she's had a previous account, which she talks about.

Like, she had a previous account where she helped people lose weight,

I think, and it had like I think it's something like 400, 500,000 people.

Lots of engagement.

So like, you know, she was regularly getting like 2, 3,000, like, likes

and comments and stuff on posts.

although, yes, what she's got now is a brand-new account, I think

her nervous system was calibrated for that level of visibility.

Like, she'd done it before.

She had the capacity to kind of do it again.

She talks a lot about nervous system.

She talks a lot about how she regulates herself, and she's really conscious of it.

think if I had been doing that launch or maybe if it was someone who had genuinely

never had an account before that was doing this launch, think I… my nervous

system would've frozen, and I don't think I would've been able to post through it.

I don't think I would've been able to continue sharing.

I don't think I would've been able to, show up in the way that

she showed up for that launch.

She, you know, she posted every day.

She was really transparent.

She was really vulnerable.

She's, like, released videos of, like, her telling her parents about this

Yeah

Like, she's so transparent and vulnerable, but it takes a

huge amount of nervous system work to be able to get to that

Right

where you can hold that and continue to be visible.

And

Yeah

if nothing else,, I do think it builds your nervous system to have,

to have to do stuff that feels a bit stretchy, that feels a bit uncomfortable,

whether it works or not, that… And it might be that, you know, it's not

hardly anyone is gonna suddenly create, you know, it's a unicorn moment.

Like, it's not like we're suddenly all gonna be having these million-pound

launches just from yapping on Instagram.

yeah

think there is something about whatever your version of that is, you have

to train your nervous system to be able to hold that again and again and again.

And it's a bit like with my revenue, and it's a bit like with me

spending the money on the retreat.

Like, it's not like I started my business last year and this is the

first ever investment I've made.

I have made investments again and again and again to get to this

point where I feel like although it's stretchy, I can hold it.

And I

Yeah

willing to do the stretchy thing and push yourself, then

it's gonna be really hard to hold anything that comes in the future

Totally.

I s- One of my clients has a, a saying, I don't know, I think it might be someone

else's quote, but she certainly talks about it quite a lot, which is, like, that

success is often in the mindset of holding on when everyone else would've let go.

And I think that's what her commitment to her account shows, is that, like,

you know, people are talking about how it's this, like, prolific growth.

Like, she started the account in November and got it to this growth.

But actually, if you look at what she's done, it's like,

that is every day commitment.

So, so how much she's posted in those six months or whatever it

is, is probably what some of us will have posted over four years.

So actually, she's showing insane levels of being able to hold on and,

and I would've been exactly the same.

If m- if I'd got as many people on the wait list as she

had, I would've bottled it.

I would've thought, "That's enough." Like, I don't know if I

can hold that what if they all buy, or what if I'm not good enough?

And she also had the, the gumption to, like, day one of the course she was like,

"I, you know, it's just me and a VA.

Like, I haven't, it's not all ready.

Things are gonna be dropping," and she really had created, because she'd

been so vulnerable on the approach to it all, by the time she said that, no

one was, like, outraged, like, "I've paid this money, I want it now." They

were like, "Oh yeah, no, that's fair.

Crikey, you know, it's got really big, hasn't it?"

And so I just think there is so much to admire in the tenacity and

the, the, the willingness to kind of hold steady and, and just do the

thing that you know you should do

I love that quote from your client because I do think that

is often the thing that makes the difference, is when you actually

just like, someone else I've heard described as just like stay on the bus.

stay

Yeah

Just keep going even when it feels really hard and

when it feels really stretchy.

You have gotta stay on the bus because otherwise, like,

you're just not gonna get there.

And yeah, I, I think she's just such a brilliant example.

What I do think is interesting is I think I saw someone say, like, with

her combined audience, it's like it's roughly a 2% conversion rate, which

Yeah.

standard.

Like, it's

Yeah

really not that wild in terms of conversion rates.

It's not like she had, like, a 50% conversion rate.

But what it does show is that, like, sometimes volume actually does matter.

But it's that combination of it with nurture as well, and that's actually

what we're gonna be talking about next week because I think we've got

some really fun stuff to talk about, like, 'cause Ruthie and I are very,

we are very nurtury, I would say.

Like, we're not nu-

Yes, not too heavy

yeah, no one's coming to us to go viral.

Like, that's not the goal

Right.

work with either of us.

But I

Right

think there is a balance to that where, and I've

Mm-hmm.

a couple of stories and things that have happened to me recently where

it's been really tough because I haven't got the volume in that I need to be

Yeah.

do what I wanna do.

And I think

Yeah

something that a lot of people battle with

Yeah, and partly why I want to talk about it next week is 'cause

I wanna know what you know about being able to build an audience and, like, how

you've used ads to do that and stuff.

Because I think I read something of yours, I think it was an email , a

while ago, where you talked about actually sometimes the second launch

is harder than the first if you haven't, like, restocked your audience.

And Soph, it had never occurred to me.

I was like, "I haven't… Yeah, I need to restock. I definitely

need to do that." Yeah.

So I think, like, it'd be really interesting to hear your perspective

on it and see, 'cause I think it would be helpful to so many people.

Like, should I care about growing my audience?

Yeah, probably.

Probably, but in a way that isn't like, "Oh, I've got 8,000

people on my email list and yet nobody's buying." Because that's

Yeah.

either.

Absolutely

Yeah.

Amazing.

Well, I mean, I hope you guys have enjoyed that.

I had a great time

A great time.

So even if it's just, like, me and you listening to it back, I'm

gonna be like, "Oh, we were good.

We did a really good

great.

That was so funny.

It was so good

job.

Loved that.

So insightful"

We will be back next Tuesday.

And we will see you then.