Manny Faces joins us to explore how hip hop can be a powerful catalyst for change in various sectors, including education, health, and social justice. As an award-winning journalist and cultural strategist, Manny shares his journey of using hip hop to unlock innovation and drive progress within marginalized communities. He discusses the often-overlooked potential of hip hop to address trauma and facilitate meaningful dialogue among youth, particularly in environments where traditional communication methods may fall short. Through engaging anecdotes and insightful reflections, Manny illustrates how hip hop not only serves as an artistic expression but also as a bridge for connecting diverse experiences and fostering understanding across generations. Join us as we delve into this transformative art form that has the potential to reshape culture and ignite positive change in our society.

Exploring the transformative power of hip hop, Manny Faces, an award-winning journalist and cultural strategist, joins Keith Haney on this episode of Becoming Bridge Builders to unravel how the genre can serve as a catalyst for social change. The discussion delves deep into Manny's journey, from his early days as a wannabe rapper to his evolution into a prominent voice in hip hop journalism. He shares insights from his acclaimed podcast, 'Hip Hop Can Save America,' highlighting how hip hop culture can redefine education, health, and social justice. Manny's personal anecdotes provide a rich tapestry of experiences that showcase the resilience and creativity embedded in hip hop, illustrating its potential to uplift marginalized communities. Throughout the conversation, listeners are encouraged to consider the impact of hip hop not just as a musical genre, but as a vital tool for cultural expression and communal healing, challenging the often negative perceptions surrounding it.

The episode also touches on the nuances of hip hop's evolution, especially how it has been perceived across generations. Manny argues that while older generations may lament the state of contemporary rap, there exists a wealth of talent and meaningful expression still thriving within the culture. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the socio-economic contexts that shape these narratives and the role of storytelling in fostering empathy and connection among diverse audiences. By bridging the gap between hip hop enthusiasts and skeptics, Manny advocates for a more inclusive dialogue that recognizes the genre's ability to articulate the struggles and dreams of a generation. This episode serves as an invitation to engage with hip hop as a living, breathing force for good, urging listeners to explore how they can harness its power to create positive change in their own communities.

In a thought-provoking dialogue, Manny Faces discusses the intersection of hip hop and social change with Keith Haney, revealing the profound ways in which rap music can influence education, mental health, and community engagement. Drawing from his extensive background in journalism and cultural strategy, Manny reflects on his personal connection to hip hop, recounting stories from his youth that shaped his understanding of the genre's significance. He argues that hip hop is not just music; it's a cultural movement that speaks to the heart of societal issues, offering a voice to those often unheard. Their conversation highlights key initiatives where hip hop has been utilized in educational settings, demonstrating its effectiveness as a medium for self-expression and personal development among youth.

Listeners are treated to an engaging exploration of how hip hop can serve to address systemic issues faced by marginalized communities. Manny shares examples of programs that leverage rap to foster healing and empowerment, illustrating that hip hop can be a bridge to understanding and addressing complex social problems. As the discussion unfolds, it becomes clear that the essence of hip hop is rooted in resilience and innovation, qualities that can inspire individuals to overcome adversity. By the end of the episode, listeners are left with a renewed appreciation for hip hop's potential to transform lives and communities, as well as a call to action to support initiatives that celebrate and amplify the voices within this vibrant culture.

Takeaways:

• Hip hop serves as a powerful cultural tool, capable of driving innovation in various sectors like education and social justice, highlighting its transformative potential.
• The journey of creativity often involves breaking conventional norms, as emphasized by Manny's advice to 'remix' ideas and think outside the box.
• Manny Faces illustrates how hip hop can be integrated into therapeutic settings, providing young people with avenues for expression and healing through music.
• The conversation underscores the importance of recognizing the societal issues impacting marginalized communities, advocating for deeper understanding beyond surface-level narratives.
• Manny's experiences reveal how the blending of diverse musical genres, like hip hop and bluegrass, can foster dialogue and understanding among different cultural groups.
• Ultimately, hip hop's legacy lies in its ability to connect people, address systemic issues, and empower communities, making it a vital part of contemporary cultural discourse.

Links referenced in this episode:

• manifaces.com
• hiphopcansaveamerica.com
• https://www.becomingbridgebuilders.org/

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• SUNY Old Westbury
• Hip Hop Can Save America
• Cornell
• Kumo D
• Dr. Ian Levy
• Gangsta Grass
• Old Town Road
• Accidental Racist
• Rikers Island

Mentioned in this episode:

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Welcome to Becoming Bridge Builders, the podcast where we explore how leaders, innovators and change makers are building bridges to a better future.

I am your host, Keith Haney.

Today we have an incredible guest who's redefining how culture can drive progress.

Joining us today is Manny Faces, an award winning journalist, speaker and cultural strategist.

Manny is the host of acclaimed podcast Hip Hop Can Save America and the author of a Cornell west endorsed book, Hip Hop Can Save Inspiration from the Nation From a Culture of Innovation.

His work shines a light on how hip hop can unlock innovation in education, health, social justice and beyond.

Before we dive in, Manny, first of all, welcome to the podcast.

How you doing?

I'm doing well, thank you.

It's an honor and a privilege to be here and I thank you for inviting me on.

I'm doing all right.

Good.

Looking forward to this.

Should be a great conversation.

I grew up with hip hop, so I run dmc.

Kumo D, that was the groups.

But I'm sure we'll get into it.

Fun fact right out of the gate.

Fun fact.

My dad was a sociology professor at SUNY Old Westbury, you know, State University of New York O Westbury.

And Kumo D was one of his students.

All right, sociology class.

I knew Kumo D was cool for a reason.

That's right.

So, Manny, what's the best piece of advice you ever received?

The best piece of advice I ever received, I don't know that it was spoken that way.

I don't know that it was delivered in that way.

Like here's, you know, son, when I, you know, because my dad was actually a very big advice giver, but he was always of the moment.

So whatever happened, he'd have an analogy for it, you know, right.

If you're walking down the street and someone slaps you in a.

He'd always have these weird analogies, violent analogies.

I think the best advice that I ever got that I maybe absorbed, you know, was sort of that hip hop ethos of, you know, just.

Just flip it, just remix it, just do it different.

Do something the way it's not supposed to be done.

And it starts when you're young and you're taking apart things to like, I don't know, fix it or do something different to it or customize.

You're not supposed to do that.

And, and I think that I found out early on that that's not a bad, necessarily a bad thing to do to just try to go, as they say, outside the box.

So I think that was probably the best feeling of advice that I ever got that it's okay to do that.

And I mean, even when it wasn't okay, it's kind of something I've always done.

So I think it plays into a lot of who I've become, you know, box outside the think even.

I like Nancy.

Yeah.

So you spent 25 years in journalism, in media, in community engagement.

What inspired you to focus on hip hop as a catalyst for change?

So, yeah, so it goes back to.

I mean, I've always been involved with hip hop, you know, artistic, you know, sense.

Right.

So most people think of hip hop as rap music and its associated elements of art, you know, breaking, dancing and graffiti and such.

And I wasn't a graffiti writer.

I didn't break.

I did rap for a little bit.

I was actually got into DJing pretty early in my teens.

So I grew up about the same age.

I don't know, we're probably generally around the same age.

I grew up the same age, you know, alongside hip hop.

And I was in Long island, right outside of New York City.

So it was very prevalent in.

In our community and our culture.

And so through the years, I. I was, you know, a wannabe rapper, a wannabe producer.

I made beats.

I. I had a home studio and I, you know, I made tracks for local artists and we had groups and we performed at talent shows and we did all the things.

As I got older, I. I still try to do that.

I still try to make.

Make it as a producer and a remixer.

And I was.

Had a couple brushes with fame, but nothing really panned out.

But I ended up getting a job in journalism, and it wasn't exactly where I was aiming.

I kind of taught myself graphic design, and so I ended up doing graphic design for this newspaper.

Turns out I'm a pretty decent writer.

So they, you know, started doing some writing.

And it was an alternative newsletter newspaper, an alt weekly.

You know, we would know.

People don't see, for young people, newspapers are these actual pieces of paper that had words on them.

But anyway, and so I started working for them.

They were cool, they were scrappy.

They were the alternative newspaper.

They were not the corporate, you know, main paper in town.

They used to go off to the go after, like, the corrupt cops and the businesses doing foul deeds.

And it was just.

They were cool, they were scrappy, and it was like investigative stuff.

And so I started getting my journalism chops again by osmosis through these folk.

And at the same time, I was lamenting, as many New Yorkers were at the time, the Movement of hip hop music and culture to other big cities across America, right?

Atlanta was becoming the new mecca, and Houston was popping and all these other places were popping off.

And New York was being said that hip hop is dead and it's no longer there anymore.

And I started poking my nose around the city around where independent artists were still rocking.

And they had weekly showcases that had been going on for 15 years.

These really intense, fun, artistic expressions were happening.

And I'm like, no, I don't know what y' all talking about.

Like, it's pretty alive and well over here.

And so I blended those two worlds together.

My journalism chops, I was building now the website for the newspaper I worked at.

But then I just decided to kind of build my own online publication covering New York hip hop music and culture.

And I did that for about 10 years.

So by day I'm, you know, working at the newspaper, and by night I'm like the hip hop journalism superhero in New York.

And I'm just covering all these things that are happening.

And one of the things that happened during that time, again, one of these showcases, this weekly showcase was called Freestyle Mondays.

And beautiful, beautiful event.

I think one of the most, like, fun events known to mankind.

They started as a weekly open mic, basically for rappers to come through and freestyle off top of the head impromptu, just making it up as they go along.

They had a live band that was different, right?

They had people playing music run by a great host named Ill Spoken.

They would just kind of go off and.

And have these performances and have fun.

Once a month, they would.

It would come together as a MC battle and you'd have these two, you know, if like four contestants, verse four, you know, one verse one.

Right?

Eight contestants total.

And they would spin the wheel like a game show, right?

They'd have these categories and it'd be like science and current events and hip hop and food groups and like, you know, these, these cool categories.

And they'll spin the wheel and end up food groups.

And the host would say, okay, flip a coin and heads or tails, you go first, you go second, you're shark, you're plankton, go.

And so these, these, these rappers, these, like I said, these freestyle rappers have to, like, at the top of their.

Off the top of their head with no prior knowledge, rap as from the perspective of plankton versus the perspective of Shark and try to, like, outwit each other lyrically and with know, funny and charming and to get the crowd because the crowd judged you at live music.

I'm telling you, this was fun.

And you had to be pretty smart.

You had to be a good rapper and be good at freestyling, but you had to be pretty smart.

And you had to be pretty, I don't know, worldly or whatever.

And these weren't young, young kids, but these 30s, 20s, you know, like, it was folks that were like, kind of, you know, professional, young professionals wrapping their tails off.

And I got to talking to some of them.

I'm like, yeah, you're brilliant.

Like, how do you, like, know this stuff?

Because it could be anything.

He'd be like, you know, Kissinger versus, you know, you know, Margaret Thatcher.

Go.

And they would do it.

They would be able to do it.

Bottom line is, I talked to a company.

Oh, I'm a teacher.

Oh, okay.

Oh, I'm, you know, I work in marketing, advertising.

I'm an executive.

Oh, okay.

You know, I've gone to college.

I have degrees, I'm smart.

I was rapping all my life.

This is fun for me.

This is cool.

And I said, oh, that's dope.

Do you get the chance to like, bring rap into your profession?

Do you get to bring it into the classroom?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, this is what I do.

Or I go on weekends to Rikers island, the juvenile detention centers, and I work with young men.

We have these rap writing workshops to help them with their self esteem.

And I start realizing that there are people using hip hop and rap in these ways that are improving people's lives and improving industries or fields or disciplines in ways that like, we don't really hear about too much.

And you know, as a, like a co, I have all these characteristics of journalism.

Like, my dad was a college professor, so I went to College for about 2.5 seconds, much to his, you know, dismay.

But, you know, I learned a lot through him.

I swear.

He's a sociologist, he's an anthropologist.

So I'm like thinking like, this is like, he was a jazz and blues guy.

Like, I have all these influences coming together and I'm like, this is fascinating stuff.

And I just wanted, like, learn more about it.

And so I started asking people about what they do and who else they work with and started researching it and finding more and more people doing this and come to find out there's a lot of people doing this kind of work with this music and culture that we grew up on.

That was surpri.

I wouldn't say surprising, but certainly I didn't know this.

We don't know this.

We didn't hear about this.

And so my journalistic Nature took over.

And I said, well, I've got to.

I've got to tell their stories.

I love that, you know, because I think when we think hip hop and when we think rap, we think of it as just.

It evolved in my time.

When I started listening to it in the beginning, I thought it was like you just described.

It was these brilliant lyricists who were poetic, who could.

Who could tell a story and weave it into some really creative music.

Until now.

And I'm one of those older guys who goes, rap music day is not what it used to be.

You always go back to.

This was like the Marvin Gaye versus the newer artist.

And so you go back and you go.

There was so much richness.

I mean, the Tupacs, who could weave stories and poetry.

And I think when we hear hip hop now, we don't see it as being an art form.

We see it as being less than.

How do you kind of get people to see that it really does have the ability to speak to the heart of a culture and a generation and really transform.

Somebody said it's like a renaissance.

Somebody said, if you really want to change the culture of this new generation, if you can turn into rap music and get into the rap scene, you could really transform and provide a renaissance moment from the kind of the dark ages in some of these places.

Yeah, I. I mean, it's.

So you allude to it that, you know, this always happens, right, with every.

Every genre, every a.

Every generation.

You know, we all look back, said, like, my dad was a blues and jazz guy, right?

So when Kenny G came out, he's like this.

Let me tell you, this is not jazz, bro.

And I'm listening to, like, Count Basie.

I'm listening to, you know, the Duke Ellison.

Like, I know, because I already know, but I can see where he gets it from.

And of course, you know, rock and roll fans would say this in a classic rock and hip hop.

And I think that.

That I want to preface this just by saying this happens to every art form every once it gets commercialized.

You know, now with a black art form in America, you know, we have to be careful because it often gets stolen, you know, and commod, commoditized.

And, you know, there's that long history of that in America.

I don't know if you know this about America, but they're really bad about that.

So there's some of that at play, too.

But generally speaking, I make the analogy often.

I say, listen, we don't all, like.

Not everyone wants superhero movies.

You Know what I mean?

Like, people want like art house films and Sundance type films.

They exist.

Just because I'm a Godzilla fan.

I love the Godzilla verse, King Kong.

I'm just thrilled.

I'm like the little kid again.

People love Avengers, but I can still watch a documentary.

They exist.

They're still out there.

So the first thing to say is that when anything gets kind of commoditized like that, industry capitalism will say, well, we're going to least common denominator this.

We're going to put out the stuff that appeals to the least common denominator.

You know, young people even now are making their own music and kind of cutting out record labels and industries.

They're going straight to TikTok and YouTube.

So they're saying, hey, listen, this is just what people are attracted to.

It's a mess, it's all over the place.

But it also is the freedom, right, that we want from our art forms to create whatever we want to create.

So I look at the industry and how rap music has changed and I said, well, anything you want from rap you can still find.

So there's that, right?

And so if you like my man Silent Night, who's a great lyricist, a great poet, a great emcee, he's been doing stuff for a bunch of years.

He used to be on raucous records.

Like, he's still making music, great music run these last few days.

You don't know him, people don't know him, but he's out there making great music.

And he also did a hip hop polka just for fun, like, like for world news now a couple years ago.

So if you want a, like a, a traditional purist lyricist, he's one of the best there is.

If you want hip hop and polka, that exists too.

So everything you want exists where, you know, so where we spend time lamenting what's on the mainstream for the young people, Twofold, number one, yes and right.

Yes, that exists.

But the things I'm talking about still exist.

So what do we do as grown folk to say, okay, we can understand that we're not going to connect with the young people and their musical tastes.

But I'm talking about intersections, I'm talking about interdisciplinary stuff.

What I hear from teachers and mental health professionals is we have a commonality with our young people.

They like hip hop, we like hip hop.

Different kind of hip hop, but we can meet in the middle a little bit.

We can find ways to say, oh, like you said in the beginning, cool, Modi.

Hey, this guy sounds like this guy I used to, you know, listen to or this song reminds me of something from my.

You or whatever.

And there's ways and you don't know, but what you know about.

And then you have a way to kind of connect with our children.

So I think that even though we're not ever gonna be satisfied with the state of the mainstream or whatever's being put out to the masses, that doesn't take away from the ability for the music and culture to be used as a force for good.

And even when we don't like the material, we don't like the imagery, we know that it has negative effects on young people.

It's telling us something about our young people that if we're, if we care about them, we should be tapping into.

And I'll just give a quick example.

Well, there's two things.

One, I like to say, you know, as old heads, you know, as old heads, we, we often say, this has been said.

And you might know some, some cats that have said the same thing.

And I don't know if people are listening or hip hop fans, but trust me when I say this, this is a thing.

Older hip hop fans will be like, man, we used to sell, we used to rap about selling drugs.

All these kids now rap about is taking drugs.

Right, right, right.

And be like, oh, what this crazy?

Like, we were like.

And the implication there is that like, we were harder, life was harder, we were.

This isn't, you know, this.

That's.

You got the easy way out.

You just sitting, getting high all the time.

And I can see from like a parent point of view or, you know, a pastor point of view, like, that's worrisome.

Like, why are all our kids rapping about taking drugs?

Right, that's.

I get it.

But now listen to the perspective of a hip hop therapist, like Dr. Ian Levy, who I talk to, or J.C. hall, who I talk to or, or Jamila Sams, who runs a social emotional learning program that uses hip hop to work with kids.

And they say, well, listen, if our young people are connecting to an artist that rhymes about self medicating or depression or feeling bad or whatever, I'm not gonna look at them as, oh, you soft, your music sucks.

I'm gonna be like, why do you connect to that message?

What is it about their vulnerability?

Like, we wanted our kids to be able to talk to us about their.

And they're not, they don't, they don't talk to us about anything.

But when you connect through the music and you ask them questions about the music that they, like, they will tell you why they connect to it.

They will tell you why they're fearful or why it resonates with them.

And so there's lessons to be learned in all of it.

If we just look at it from a consumerism point of view.

Yeah, man, it's, It's.

It's bad out there in these, you know, musical streets.

Right.

But if.

But if we use it as, like, you know, coming from it the way that I come from it, and then like a lot of people doing and this work come from it, it's actually, we may have more of an ability to hear what our young people are thinking and feeling than we ever had before.

So with the good comes the bad.

Maybe.

Yeah.

You know, I was talking to somebody else about some of the things that the rap scene today has led to, and it was interesting.

I was.

Cause I was listening to.

I think it might have been Ice Cube.

Okay.

And he was describing that a lot of the artists today are being told what to write because they're trying to sell a certain product to a certain group.

And he wasn't into that.

And like, for example, the thing that stands in my mind was the prison complex.

Owners of the prison complex are the ones who are controlling rap music to get kids to get engaged in activities that lead to the prison feeding the prison complex.

I like the fact that you're talking about, how do you take rap to transform a classroom, transform a culture and make progress in the lives of our young people?

But also hearing from them, where are their hurts?

Where their insecurities or vulnerabilities?

How do we not just take that and go, okay, this is bad, and go, okay, here's where the problems lie.

How do we begin to help our kids to say, there's a better solution than self medicating?

There's a better solution than in and out of bad relationships or abusive relationships.

How do we begin to transform that culture into something positive?

Identifying where the hurt is.

Yeah, yeah.

Not only does it gives you the ability to identify it, but it gives you the tools to fix it, to address it.

I say fix it.

Fix it is lofty but right.

I say.

I say fix it.

But, you know, at least address it.

At least alleviate it.

And again, this isn't theoretical.

When I.

When I come to you now, sir, I've been doing this for, you know, 10 years, talking to people.

I wrote a book about it.

I'll give you 50.

Not today, because we'd be Here all day.

But I'll give you an example.

In New York.

New York State, or New York City, whatever he's from.

He was in New York.

White guy, Jewish guy, you know, brilliant guy, but went through the clinical training, did all the things.

He was.

He's a school counselor.

He's certified.

He does all the things.

But he raps.

And he's from.

From hip hop.

And he goes into the school and he says, you know, I gotta find a way to, like, get these kids to engage.

I'm their counselor.

I see that they're dealing with trauma.

I'm in the Bronx.

I think he was in the Bronx.

It was like a rough neighborhood.

It was all the.

All the things.

All the cliche things.

Inner city, troubled, at risk, all the.

All the.

All the, you know, all the euphemisms.

And he says, man, I know that when I was young I would, you know, write raps, and that would help me kind of get through my.

My trauma.

Maybe my trauma wasn't their trauma, but trauma nonetheless, right?

He says, I'm a certified counselor.

I know that.

That.

That's important.

Getting it on, you know, on paper or just.

So he starts talking to the kids and he says, hey, listen, maybe we can, like, do a little.

We can make some music.

And they're like, everyone's into, like, oh, yeah, everyone wants.

Oh, yeah, okay, we'll do that, Dr. Levy.

Yeah, okay.

So he has.

At first, he starts out by, like, he has to bring his equipment because there's no.

There's not.

There's nothing in the studio in the school that has.

This school's not set up for this.

And he asked the school, he goes, hey, can I do a, like, a little session where we do, like, a little rap writing session or beat making or something like that?

And they were like, I mean, I guess because, you know, they're skeptical.

They're like, rap in the school?

No.

Like, no, that's the worst.

He convinces them, and they say, yeah, but you gotta do it after school or you gotta do it during lunch.

He's like, well, who wants to, like, spend their lunch, like, you know, extra time with my counselor?

But anyway, so he sets it up.

He starts traveling.

He goes to the schools.

He brings his, like, equipment in a bag, he was telling me in the interview.

And he starts doing this where he brings the young people in and they're talking to them and they're writing rhymes about it.

He shows them hey, listen, I don't rap like you rap, but I rap.

And, like, they're like, oh, Mr. Levy, you can rap.

Okay?

And you build a rapport.

You build a trust, and.

And you build respect for how they see the world and the way in which they speak in it.

Again, you don't have to like the music they like.

You don't have to like anything about what they like, but you're showing them that, hey, I respect.

You know, I'll give you some respect.

I like the same kind of thing.

Fast, fast forward.

He eventually builds.

Literally, like, builds a recording studio in his office, in his counselor's office.

And again, you got.

It's in the book.

It's on my.

And I interviewed him on a podcast, but it's why I put in the book.

It's.

He says, by the end of this semester, this was during Ferguson, Mike Brown being killed by police.

And a lot of.

A lot of, you know, police brutality.

Things were happening.

You know, Freddie Gray and, you know, Sandra Bland.

Like, all these things were in the news.

So, of course, these are, you know, young, mostly men of color in, like, the, you know, a neighborhood in New York where, you know, there's stop and frisk and over policing.

And so they see these things and they relate to these things, and it worries them.

And they, you know, Trayvon Martin, like, they think about these things.

And so they.

It was around that time, and so they did a mixtape together.

They wrote songs collectively.

When you get a bunch of kids, I'm saying kids, but, you know, high school kids, right?

Yeah.

To talk about their fears, their traumas, to be vulnerable together, to speak to each other about the.

To do songs together.

Created a whole mixtape called Hoodies Up.

Right.

The Trayvon Martin thing.

And.

And.

And each of the songs wasn't, like, about, you know, I'm.

I'm getting drunk, I'm getting high, I'm messing with all these women.

I'm doing all these things.

She talked about their fears and vulnerabilities.

That's what other therapist, counselor in America can tell me, that they're having that kind of success with young, traumatized black men in the Bronx.

Like, it's not happening anywhere else, but it's happening to them to the point where in the next year, he says kids from the.

From the program that he did started.

I don't want to say recruiting, but, like, a young man would talk to another young man, he'd say, yo, I heard y'.

All.

Y' all make music in the studio and, like, you know, about Your, like, things that are happening.

My cousin died, and I'm trying to, like, find a place to get it off my chest.

They're like, yo, come through to the studio.

So he comes through.

He makes a song about his cousin.

He says, Mr. Levy, can my.

Can my sister or my cousin cousin, can she sing on a track?

She doesn't go to the school.

Can she come?

Yes, they brought her into the other school and she sings on the track.

They record it.

They play it at the cousin's memorial.

Like, wow, right?

What a way to, like, help young people deal with trauma and deal, like, express themselves and.

Yeah, the industry isn't built for that.

The industry doesn't care about that.

And Ice Cube, the prison industrial complex being run by the same companies that have stake in.

I've heard the conspiracy theories.

I don't buy it fully.

It's never been fully proven.

And I'm a journalist, so I need to see more.

It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility, because this country, I don't know if you know this about America, but there's, like, things like that sometimes we just don't know.

But.

But regardless, I say, even if it didn't, it would just make sense that it would.

Again, lower common denominator type stuff.

But that doesn't mean that if we don't.

That doesn't mean.

But that means that if we give these young people this option, then they'll take it.

So if you only see this negative and not enough positive, to me, it's because we don't give them enough options to make.

To do positive stuff, then it's on us.

Right?

So we can complain about it.

We can, you know, oh, these kids today.

But I. I talk to the people that are giving them the option, and they take it, and it helps them immensely.

And that's one of a hundred examples I could give you.

I love that.

What do you say to people?

And this is always part of my.

What I do on my podcast is I try to get people to understand we're not really talking about the heart of most of the issues in marginalized communities.

We have politicized the issues to the point where we've taken out the conversation and minimized the stuff, the struggle that people go through.

I served in Detroit.

I served in inner city St. Louis.

I served in inner city Milwaukee and Chicago.

And I tell people, you're not getting the full story by watching the news.

And when you say that, well, they should just get over it, or they need to just work harder, or there's no real trauma, or all the school systems are the same.

You are missing out on the fact that there is a deeper problem here.

Whether you call it systemic racism or systemic oppression, whatever you call it, there is a systematic problem and a breakdown in those communities.

And you can't assume that they can just pull themselves up by their own bootstraps when you're trying to overcome so many hurdles.

And I love what you're talking about, it's like you gotta give people the medium and the avenue to express that pain, that struggle.

They see their friends who have died.

I had kids in my school who said, you know, pastor, I really think going to school is a waste of time because I don't know anybody who's older than 25 besides my parents, so I'm not gonna make it to 25 or 30.

So I don't need to have a career or I need to have a future.

How do you respond to people who aren't really getting that there is a bigger problem here, that what you're doing and what people like you just described are doing is trying to give people an avenue to find a better path.

Yeah, I think.

I mean, it's tough.

There's a certain.

That's a long question.

That was a long answer.

Yeah, no, no, it's.

But it's an important one.

Cause it's like, how do we actually, you know, sometimes it's.

Sometimes we're preaching to the choir.

Right, Right.

It's like, yeah.

You know, so there's two things.

I think there's certain ass, you know, segments of the population that are just never going.

They don't.

They don't care.

They've been too programmed.

They just.

They don't care.

Now this can happen.

Like, if you're talking about, you know, problems that, you know, focus on, you know, communities of color, you would think that, oh, there's some, like, super racist white folk that are gonna be like, nah, I don't.

It's all.

It's all fine.

It's their fault.

Other.

Other.

That's how we're being pro.

There's also people, you know, on that are from those communities that have also kind of been jaded and, you know, and don't and think the same thing.

Identity politics, blah, blah, blah.

Right.

So.

So.

So I think there's a fringe that are just not going to, you know, ever get it.

And sometimes they're the loudest voices.

And so when we want to fight these battles.

We feel like we have to be just as loud as them and we're loud and we go back and forth, but there's literally never going to change.

And sometimes they go at each other and then if you think about, like, their perspective, sometimes they're really on the same side going against everyone in the middle.

Right, right.

So who.

So I do think that, of course, the majority of people are decent in their, in their heart of hearts.

I think that it's a lot of forgive them father for they know not what they do and just not having been exposed right to the other side.

I don't always fall for the meet them where they are kind of thing.

It's a, you know, the quote, it's often attributed to James Baldwin, but it's not James Baldwin.

I forget and I forget the man who said the quote, but it basically says we don't have to agree, like, agree to disagree if your perspective is that you want the destruction of my people.

Right, right.

So there's, yeah, there's some, like, we don't have to go that far to say Kumbaya.

We can meet in the middle.

But I go back to Dr. Bettina Love and, and she's a brilliant educator and author and she was the first.

She did great TED.

Talk about the trait, the characteristics in hip hop that exist inherently by folks that do hip hop.

Right.

We don't know that we have improvisational skills, social emotional intelligence, because we rock in ciphers.

We rock in those circles of, of, you know, and, and we all take turns, but no one raises their hand to get in the middle.

Like, we just know when to go.

And we kind of respect this, this thing, this organic thing that's social emotional intelligence.

And she says when we try to bring hip hop into the schools and they're like, oh, God, no, you know, we don't want that nonsense.

She goes, oh, no, wait, we're, we want to train them in social and emotional intelligence.

And you say the buzzword and their, their ears perk up.

Oh, wait, that's the buzzword that we know.

So there's a lot of translation that has to happen is what I'm saying.

So to get people to understand that those problems exist, I mean, you have to be able to show them.

Right.

Obviously, if they're, you know, watching a particular news channel and that's all they watch, they're just not going to get these things.

I found it interesting to study.

To study.

I mean, I don't really.

I documented them, but now we're mad cool.

So I don't like to refer to them as, like, study subjects, but in the book and in one of my interviews was a group.

They're a bluegrass hip hop band.

Interesting.

Okay.

They're named Gangsta Grass.

Now, on paper, this could go either way.

This could.

This sounds crazy.

I get it.

They're actually really good.

And I talked to them and I.

And I interviewed them and I found them.

Now, fans will know that there was a few instances, I mean, we have had, like, Old Town Road, this kind of like, mashup of country and hip hop.

And we had this disastrous one a few years ago called Accidental Racist by LL Cool J and Brad Paisley.

And so again, you could look at this and be like, oh, it could be cute and kitschy, or it could be horribly tone deaf.

Old Town Road, Accidental Racist.

And I said, let me check these guys out.

And they're really, really, really, really good.

And I say this as a rap fan.

I'm not a bluegrass fan.

I could care less.

But I also respect music, right?

And I saw them perform, and what I learned was they have some of the best bluegrass musicians around.

Like, these guys are not.

They're not half.

Half ass in it.

They're not, you know, they're.

They're actually very talented, very true to their genre.

They're from this culture.

The rappers aren't these corporate rappers, pop rappers, like, trying to.

Let's do a little blend.

They're from Philadelphia.

Our son, the Voice and Dolio the Sleuth.

Right?

Arson, the Voice of Reason, and Dolio the Sleuth, they're spitters.

They rap.

They rapity rap.

And they're from Philly.

Like, they're not, you know.

They'Re not from Boise.

They're not from Boise.

No.

No disrespect to Boise.

No disrespect to Boise.

Right?

No shade.

Respectfully.

Respectfully.

But they could spit.

You put them together.

They both, like, are.

They're masters of their craft, and they both respect that about each other.

We.

We want to be the best in our.

You know, and we want to put this together as the best, most respectful blend.

What's even better.

Better is that the rappers, they rap about oppression, they rap about racism, they rap about, like, all the.

The.

The.

The.

The ills of this country that, you know, we're still trying to shake.

And the bluegrass musicians are playing their butts off, and they're like, yeah, hell yeah.

Because we're all.

We're really.

This blend.

We're really respectful of each other's.

You know, backgrounds.

And they go, and I saw him perform in Brooklyn.

And I'm like, yeah, y' all are good, but these hipsters, they're not really, you know, rednecks.

Like, it's not, you know, you're not.

You're not in danger here.

It's Brooklyn.

And they said, no, we.

We.

We.

We play in Kentucky.

We play at the bluegrass festivals, we play in the hills, we play in Appalachia.

We.

We out there.

And I said, and you don't change your lyrics.

You don't change.

He said, nah, man.

We come right at him.

And I said, that's fascinating.

I said, tell me more.

And they say, well, basically, we get there, and I'm not gonna say that, like, outright racist is gonna come into the show, and then at the end of the show be like, I love black people now.

Like, doesn't happen like that.

But those people in the middle, right, The.

Not the friends, the people who are open minded, who don't get exposed to.

To some of these thoughts, right?

And some of these, like you said, these concepts, these issues that are happening that are pervasive around the country.

Here's a way we can sneak, like, I don't say sneak it in, but hip hop does that.

We've gotten to them and they'll tell me they, like, in all of the times that they've played, they play hundreds of shows.

They've been at Red Rock, they've been like, they've done all the shows.

And they said, there's like one or two, maybe two, but one where someone walked.

Like, they walked on the stage and some guy was like, no, hell, no, it's not for me.

And walk.

That was it.

Other than that, people stay, they listen, they dance, they're into it, and they're hearing them.

My.

My.

My friends are very articulate on the mic.

They could, you know, this is not mumble rap.

We're talking about, you know, old school.

Like, they spit and.

And you get these audiences that if nothing else, they listen.

And they heard some things today that maybe they didn't get exposed to yesterday.

And I've been to a show out here.

I'm in Georgia.

I think it was in Georgia, but it was like, sticks Georgia.

It wasn't Atlanta, Georgia.

And the crowd was representative of the bluegrass side of things, which is not the normal crowd that I associate with, but all good.

I fit in well because of how I look, but not with that New York hat on.

Yeah, well, yeah, that's probably true.

That always gives it away.

They looked at me and said, he not like us, you know, But I could see that this, that's real.

It's real.

They enjoyed it.

They paid attention.

And again, I'm not saying that you're changing someone's mind overnight.

It's not magic.

But hip hop find.

Found a way to do what.

What cable news.

When they have.

We'll have someone on this side and have someone on this side, and they'll.

That doesn't do it.

They don't actually convince anyone.

They don't change hearts and minds.

Hip hop found a way to do that.

And so all I'm saying is when I, you know, the mantra of hip hop could save America is ridiculously lofty.

But all I'm saying is that I've seen hip hop have these unique, you know, these, These characteristics that are unique to it that have done things that I can't see any happening anywhere else.

The young people in the therapy and the, you know, prejudiced rednecks.

I guess redneck is probably derogatory, but some.

They take pride in it.

There's no offense.

It's respectfully like all of a sudden listening to some rappers talk about some.

Some pretty heavy topics.

But they did it in a way that they could tell it's real, recognized real.

Right?

They're like, it's, it's.

They're playing our music.

They're, they're, they're respecting us.

So maybe we can respect what they're saying.

And I see it happen.

So it's just one tiny example of maybe away.

And it doesn't have to be rap.

A lot of people say, you know, hip hop skin to America.

You know, we're gonna rap our way through.

No, but it's this mentality.

It's the audacity of saying we can blend bluegrass and hip hop.

It goes back to your first question.

What was the best piece of advice?

Do the unthinkable.

Put things together that aren't supposed to be together.

So, yeah, it could be bluegrass and hip hop.

Maybe it's just the way of thinking like that and saying we can start a program for young, you know, kids of color to learn bluegrass.

Like, it's not.

It doesn't have to be rap, rap, rap, hip hop, hip hop, hip hop.

It's just the thinking, the remix mentality that hip hoppers naturally have.

And that's what I see as potential solutions to some of these issues.

I love it.

I could talk to you all day, but I want to ask you my other favorite question as we kind of Wrap things up.

What do you want?

What do you want your legacy to be?

I mean, I'd like a statue, like, you know.

No, I'm just kidding.

Down in Brooklyn.

Yeah.

I take it in Brooklyn.

Probably Long Island.

I'm a Long island guy.

You know, like people.

It's like when you're in.

When they say, I'm from Atlanta, but you live in Marietta.

You're not really Atlanta.

People get us.

I'm from Long Island.

It's New York.

But, you know, I don't.

You don't live in Buckhead.

Yeah, right, right.

Buckhead.

Oh, man.

They were like, damn, Legacy is crazy.

I have a lot.

I have an enormous assortment of children.

So my legacy is them just by default.

And I want them to do wonderful things.

And they're actually all wonderful.

I'm very.

I got six kids, and that's a lot.

And like, one of them is probably going to be bad, right?

That's just the low of averages.

They're all really good.

My youngest is the best.

Baby girl faces, who's now 10, she's the best.

And people say, don't say that to the rest of the kids, like, that they'll feel something type of way and.

But they kind of agree.

They all kind of know she's the best.

So my legacy is my children, and they're making me very proud every day.

However, my life's work has now become this.

And so I.

And you'll hear that I think I spoke.

I spoke a lot more during this interview about other people than myself.

And I'm.

I am very vain and I want to be the voice of it all, but only to amplify other people.

Only to amplify.

You know, I often say to the folks who are doing this work, who I've mentioned a few and like, the bunch are in the book, and I have 100 episodes that I've interviewed.

People that they do so much.

They're.

They're in the.

They're.

They're doing the work, man.

They're doing the work.

They don't have time to market themselves or, you know, amplify their own selves.

They.

They do the work.

They're the real heroes.

They all love hip hop, they love our children.

They.

They.

They want equality and equity.

I often say that all of these things that we talk about will definitely help communities of color, marginalized communities that have been traditionally under sourced and under loved and under resourced, but it's actually universal because there's poor white communities, too.

That, as I said yesterday, in an interview.

It's the first time I said it.

I'm sure someone else said it, but I really like it.

If we're not on the yacht, we're all on the same boat.

We're all in the same boat if we're not on the yacht.

So when people start to realize that, you know, we.

Then we form real coalition.

But these tactics.

I don't say tactics.

It sounds so tactical.

But these, These methodologies, these pedagogies, these ways of thinking, these intersections, they work in white communities too.

White kids love hip hop too.

It's the.

It's the just the mentality of, hey, man, like, we're gonna meet you where you are.

We're gonna let you be your full, you know, self.

Come in the room with your identity.

I'm a grown man, so I call myself Manny Faces.

Some of my real name.

Our real name is Bobby Elbows.

That's not true.

That's a dumb joke.

But the point is, is that.

And I'm white, I'm privileged.

I could do.

Ah, he gets away with it because.

No, I want everyone to get away with it.

And I've given away some of my privilege by calling myself Manny Faces.

So.

So what I'm saying is, is that if we put all this into like this holistic view, I just want to tell the story to people that are doing this work so that their legacy gets amplified because they are saving lives, you know, positively uplifting communities and livelihoods and society.

And they're just not.

They don't quite get the credit.

And there's too many people out here that if I say hip hop, you know, can fix this, they're gonna have a negative reaction.

It's going to be automatic.

It's.

It does.

I want it to get to the point where when I say that it's default.

You already know.

You already know.

The legacy is that these folks works will not be in vain.

And that some of the really insidious things that are affecting us in this country right now.

I know the name of this show.

They're actually affecting people on both sides.

And if they were to ever bridge together, would know that they're all in the same boat because they're not on the yacht.

Right.

And I.

And I think hip hop has a really, really unique power to do that unlike anything a.

Sports is divisive.

We're all tribal.

Religion.

Nope, not there, you know, politics, for sure not.

And I just.

I would challenge anyone to tell me after, you know, hearing all my spiel and listening to all the people who do this work.

Find me something that, that could do it better.

And if you can't, then let's put all our eggs in this basket because time's running out.

I love it.

So in season six, we have something new as well.

We have a surprise question.

Pick a number between 1 and 8 for your surprise question.

4.

Okay.

Would you rather have unlimited sushi for life or unlimited tacos for life?

Oh, man.

Probably tacos.

Because the variety of taco esque creations you could make.

You could make a sushi taco and then there I got the best of both worlds.

Come on.

You can't make a sushi.

You can't make a, a sushi with like beef and cheese.

It wouldn't be sushi anymore.

No, it is.

But you can't make a sushi taco.

You can't make a sushi.

There you go.

I got it.

I know I got that one right.

So, man, and where can people connect with you?

Hear your podcast, buy your book.

I appreciate that.

So there's two easy sites to remember my name, Manny Faces and you know, maniface.com or you could google it.

I'm the only Manny Faces out there and I've trademarked it, so don't even try it.

But also, hip hop can save America dot com.

Everything in both those places links to each other.

So whichever one you remember, come find me there.

The book is available.

I have, I do signed copies if you'd like.

You'll get a nice little bracelet made by the inimitable baby girl Faces as a bonus.

Makes a great holiday.

Holiday gift for people who love hip hop but don't love hip hop today.

Who like they once loved hip hop, they don't love it anymore.

Perfect gift.

They loved hip hop once and still love hip hop.

Perfect gift.

They hate hip hop and they never will.

Perfect gift.

Perfect.

Give it to your hip hop hating relatives.

Let's see what happens.

But yeah, those are the places you can find me.

Well, Manny, thank you for sharing your powerful vision and thank you for joining us today on becoming bridge builders to our listeners.

If you want to learn more about Manny's work, check out his podcast, Hip Hop can Save America and his book with the same name links will be in the show notes below.

Until next time, keep building bridges and keep bringing us closer together.

Thank you so much, Manny.

Thank you, sir.

I appreciate it.