We are in person at the 2024 Animal Forensic Conference in Gainesville, Florida! Dr. G will be interviewing several of the speakers to give our audience a bit of the knowledge gained through the presentations. We will be releasing each interview individually to allow our listeners to find topics of interest.

Dr. Maria Serrano explains the live animal forensic examination and what veterinarians can do to be better advocates for animals.

We would also like to invite our listeners involved in animal cruelty investigations to visit and join the International Society for Animal Forensic Sciences https://isafs.org/

Mentioned in this episode:

Keep it Humane Podcast Network

The Animal Welfare Junction is part of the Keep It Humane Podcast Network. Visit keepithumane.com/podcastnetwork to find us and our amazing animal welfare podcast partners.

Our next guest is Dr.

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Maria Serrano from Miami

Dade County Animal Services.

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Thank you for being here

and welcome to The Junction.

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Maria Serrano: Thank you for having me.

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It's amazing to be here.

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DrG: What is your background and how

does it involve the field of forensic?

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Maria Serrano: Um, so I am a veterinarian.

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I have been a veterinarian for close

to 20 years, which is a long time.

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Um, but I recently were not

recently, uh, 15 years ago, I

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became a shelter veterinarian.

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Um, and, um, so it kind of like just

fell into my lap, um, because I work

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at a high intake municipal shelter.

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We're considered animal control.

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And so, um, we kind of respond to,

uh, complaints of cruelty and neglect.

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And, um, things like that.

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And so, um, as these cases started

coming around, I started trying to

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just get a lot more training and

just understand more about forensics.

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And so, um, I started doing

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And so we've been doing them since then.

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I think we're getting better as we

learn a little bit more and get a

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little bit more expert in the field.

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And it's, it's really amazing.

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It's a new field, so it's,

it's great to, you know,

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DrG: I enjoy seeing how, how quickly

it seems to be developing and

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growing and how it's nearing like

the human forensic field, right?

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Like a lot of the advancements.

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Maria Serrano: Absolutely, and

it's just amazing to see it.

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And we have a program that we, um,

participate or training police officers.

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And so a few years ago, the, the, or

the common response from them was like,

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Oh, well, we're It's just a dog, um,

or I don't know how to handle cases

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like this and, and after giving them

a little bit of training, um, and just

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letting them be kind of relaxed with

being, this is a crime and you respond

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to it as a crime, as any other crime,

a human crime or any other crime.

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And so after that, we've actually

increased our caseload because they

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are more comfortable identifying animal

cruelty and responding to animal cruelty.

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DrG: So animals are a different

type of evidence, right,

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but they are still evidence.

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How is an animal going to be different

from just regular evidence of a crime?

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Maria Serrano: So an animal is a living

evidence that changes by the minute.

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And so it's important to see it that way

and just address it as soon as possible.

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So address it with priority.

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Um, we want to make sure

that we, um, document.

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everything about it as soon as we receive

it so that we can begin treatment as

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soon as possible and obviously alleviate

Pain and suffering related to why the

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animal is in in our care actually.

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DrG: In different states and different

even jurisdictions, there's different

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rules as far as who can do these

examinations and when they should be done.

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So in your opinion who should be

performing the examinations on

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the animal on the animal evidence?

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And when should these

examinations be performed?

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Maria Serrano: So I think responding

to these cases is a team approach and

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so investigators have a huge role in

helping us collect evidence and helping

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us get to the bottom of the story.

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But veterinarians play a huge

role in just putting their

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expertise and their knowledge and

and what they see in these cases.

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So the veterinarian should be doing the

exams, but we need a lot of support from

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our support staff, which is in this case

investigators, animal welfare officers.

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We have a forensic assistant and

she's amazing and she really,

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really helps me just log all the

evidence and just make sure that

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everything that we need to present

this case in court is put together.

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DrG: I feel that it's so important to

be present there at the beginning, or

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what we would call a field exam, because

sometimes when you get information

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after the fact, or you're looking at

an animal many days later, there's

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going to be some, some changes, right?

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So, what would be the difference as far

as, you know, if you have the opportunity

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to do a field exam, versus if you're

just doing an exam after the fact?

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Maria Serrano: That would be

the best case scenario to be

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able to respond to the field.

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Um, we always recommended, um, when I talk

about forensics with my students, I always

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say, if you can absolutely be there.

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Um, it's definitely better to have

firsthand experience to be able

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to collect the evidence yourself

or see the evidence yourself.

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Um, but it's not always something

that can be done and not all teams

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have veterinarians deploy with them.

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And so I think that it is important

to have, um, those investigators

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understand that they are going to be

your eyes on that scene and on that

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field, and then to teach them how

to preserve that evidence as much as

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possible so that when the animal is

transported wherever the veterinarian

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is, we can still have that evidence.

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So things like, for example, putting

paper bags in their, in their paws

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to be able to just maintain that

evidence, um, um, things like that.

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And of course triaging those animals

in a way that the animals that need

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immediate care, um, receive immediate

care, um, sometimes a little bit

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of it in the field if you have, um,

veterinary technicians or, or even if,

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if your state allows that, because each

state differences a little bit in who

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can do what to animals, um, so that's

something to definitely Keep in mind.

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DrG: A lot of people think that you

have to be a forensic veterinarian

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to be able to do a forensic exam on

an animal, and that's not quite true

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because a veterinarian practitioner

can do a forensic examination

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basically, I mean, it's just using

veterinary medicine in legal cases.

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But there's going to be a little bit of

differences as far as the way that things,

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the information and the records are kept.

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So what are going to be the differences

between a forensic report versus

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what a general practitioner would

do with a pet that they're seeing?

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Okay.

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Maria Serrano: So I always tell my

students, like, you are an expert,

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you are a veterinarian, you went to

veterinary school, you were taught

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exactly the same thing, everybody was

taught exactly the same thing about

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medicine, so anybody can, that has

that expertise, can testify in court.

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I think forensic veterinarians have, um,

just more experience seeing these cases

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and also have a little bit more experience

in when it comes to testifying in court.

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Um, but anyone that is a clinician

is able to make, uh, those exams.

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The difference is how we

document all of those findings.

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Um, so in a regular general practice, we

would say something like, you know, this

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organ system was within normal limits.

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In a forensic exam, we're going to

just go through every possible thing

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and that could be positive or negative

about the findings and just record them.

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So we're going to make, uh,

just a more in depth, um, exam.

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So we're going to say something like,

you know, I did not hear a murmur.

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Um, the rhythm of the heart was normal.

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The, lung sounds were, um,

normal with no, you know, in

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the four quadrants of the chest.

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So, so you're telling the court, I

listened to all of the quadrants of

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the chest and this is what I found.

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We're going to talk about all of our

findings and just put them all in in

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paper so that you can explain that better.

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We're also going to take photos, which is

something that we don't take in general

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practice, so we're going to take photos

of the animal in all of its views so that

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we identify the animal better, and then

photos of the wounds and descriptions.

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So I always tell my students, you're

going to want to describe, um, the, the

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wounds with like specific terms, like an

abrasion, uh, you know, and then how long

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the abrasion is, uh, we're going to give

it, um, points, uh, anatomical points.

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So it's, uh, five inches, uh, from

the spine or, you know, things

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like that so that we can like

just localize things a lot better.

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Um, and, and then, um, having them in

photo, it makes it a lot easier to just

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preserve the evidence for a long time.

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But I think, um, anybody that is

a good clinician and that is able

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to document, um, findings should

be able to be an expert in court.

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DrG: So kind of along those lines,

are you going to approach every case

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the same or is it going to depend on

the nature of the suspected crime?

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Maria Serrano: So, it will

absolutely depend on the nature of

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the crime and what history we got.

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It also depends on what kind of

resources you have available, because

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it's different if you have, you know,

a forensic budget for, like in our

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case, Miami Dade Animal Services has

a forensic budget, so we're able to

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process cases a little bit different.

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There's other vets that will, you

know, Um, not have, uh, you know,

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a huge budget for those things.

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So you're going to have to rely

more on the clinical findings

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that the veterinarian has.

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So, um, if you have an individual

case, like a dog that was neglected,

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um, you're going to have that

animal or that case going to be

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approached in a lot more detail.

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Um, you're going to follow that case.

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You're going to, um, Um, take,

you know, more diagnostics,

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you're going to take x rays.

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An animal that was suspected of being

abused, you know, could have certain, uh,

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fractures, for example, that indicate that

the animal was, um, hit multiple times

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at different times throughout its life.

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Um, and then if we have, uh, you know, a

case, a hoarding case of, you know, 250

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animals, um, you're going to have to have

a, set baseline of what you're going to

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do so that you're, you're not starting

with like super in depth and the first

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one and then nothing on the last one.

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Right.

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So you're going to say, okay, we're

going to take one photo, um, of the

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actual animal, and then we're going

to take any pertinent photos of

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injuries, but we're not going to go

like all the angles of all the animals.

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Um, or you're going to say, we're

going to do, um, Um, a quick, you

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know, PCV, total solids on everybody.

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We're not going to do full

blood work, things like that.

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Because, um, you want it to be consistent

throughout the whole case, so that

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when you present it in court, there's

not any, um, inconsistencies that

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will allow, um, holes in your case.

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DrG: Sometimes people think of animals,

for instance, emaciated animals,

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that it's always starvation, right?

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It's like the gut reaction.

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Uh, and that's not always the cause,

so there are sometimes reasons

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for these things to happen, but

then there are also reasons that

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perhaps are still animal cruelty

because the owner did not seek care.

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So, what are the ways that we're

going to be able to demonstrate if,

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uh, if an animal that's emaciated

emaciated or extremely thin is

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animal cruelty and neglect or not?

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Maria Serrano: So, um, not all animals

that are emaciated are starved.

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Absolutely.

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And so in our exam, we're going

to be looking for, um, signs of

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debilitating diseases that are

causing this animal to look like this.

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Um, so it's super easy to jump to

conclusions and we actually are, our

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intake, um, Um, you know, it happens

often on intake that they're like, Oh

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my gosh, this dog was starved, right?

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For sure.

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And so, yeah, initially you see

this dog that is in terrible

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condition and that is absolutely one

possibility and it, we see it often.

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Um, but we also see often animals

that have cancer and animals that have

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just other conditions, um, that don't

allow, um, proper, uh, utilization

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of the food in the gut, for example.

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And so those animals will

also look pretty starved.

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Um, so the biggest sign of an animal

starved is that it will recover

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within weeks and will gain weight

and will look so much better.

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So that is the most

compelling thing in court.

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When you have an animal that you took

pictures today and it looks, you know,

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skin and bones, and then in two weeks,

um, it's gained 15 pounds and it has

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just a new semblance to it.

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And so that is the main, um,

evidence that you have in court.

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Um, but we do x rays to make sure

that we don't see any masses.

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For example, we, if an animal has chronic

diarrhea, we're going to, um, just try

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to, um, start with a fecal and then we're

going to work our way up to try to find

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why it is that this animal is having

these clinical signs that are causing,

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um, the, the condition that we see.

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DrG: Once you have accumulated all

your information, so you have your

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exam, you have follow ups, you have

diagnostics and all, and all of

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that, how do you prepare your report?

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Maria Serrano: Um, so I use a, a template

that I have, um, and so initially

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it is, um, we comp, we compile it.

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We gather all of the history information.

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So we normally won't have a medical

history on the animal, but we'll

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have a history of the event.

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And so, um, it'll be part

of the investigators notes.

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It'll be, um, the investigators

photos of the scene, uh, any

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video that they took, and then the

police reports, of what happened.

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And so I'll put that in my, my small,

um, like summary of what got to me.

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Um, and then we'll do all of the physical,

findings, physical exam findings.

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Um, and then we'll put our pictures

that, that will, um, just kind of

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correlate what those findings were.

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Um, so, you know, dehydration,

um, the body condition of the dog,

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any parasites, any infestations,

um, any results of blood work.

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Um, we will sometimes, um, refer

some cases to a forensic radiologist.

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So any report from the

radiologist, um, things like that.

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So we'll put it all together.

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And then at the end, I will have

a, a summary or conclusions.

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And that's where I kind of

like talk about those findings.

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What does that mean for the animal?

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What does that mean for

the welfare of the animal?

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If I, I think that, how long I

think the animal has been, um,

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undergoing these, these conditions.

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Um, and, and I try to use words like,

that are in, I, I work in Florida,

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so, that are in the code of Florida.

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So, um, Words like, um, this animal has

been subjected to unnecessary pain and

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suffering because that is exactly the

words that are on the Florida statutes.

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Um, and so that is really

helpful when you're in court,

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um, presenting, uh, these cases.

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DrG: One of the things that you mentioned

earlier is about how all veterinarians

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are prepared like to be a witness, like

they can be a witness because they have

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the education, but there is a reluctance

of veterinarians to become involved in

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cruelty cases and legal proceedings.

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So what would you say to a

veterinarian to help encourage them?

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to step forward and enact as an expert

witness in an animal cruelty case.

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Maria Serrano: So I would say, first of

all, you are an expert and you should

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be proud to have all this knowledge that

you acquired and expensive knowledge too,

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that you acquired throughout the years.

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So first of all, you are an expert.

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Um, and second, you, you are the best that

these animals have to advocate for them.

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Um, you have all of the information and

you have the power to be able to speak.

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Speak up for them.

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Um, one thing that, you know, you,

you need to look at your statutes.

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Each state has different, um, you know,

some, some states, uh, the veterinarian

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is immune from any prosecution.

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Some states, um, the, the veterinarian

is actually mandatory reporter.

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So you have to report any animal cruelty.

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So, so, uh, just get that information

and knowledge so that you are more

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comfortable to, with what it is, um,

that your state requires or allows.

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Um, And then just do it because

we are, you know, this is where

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we came into this field for.

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We came into this field to, to protect

them and to just be their voice.

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And so, um, I feel it feels, even though

it can feel a little bit like nerve

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wracking initially and defense attorneys,

you know, it's nothing personal.

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It's their job.

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They are there to.

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to get their person out, you

know, but it is your job to, to be

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objective and to just speak of the

evidence that you saw in the case.

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I normally, when I, when I'm going

to go to testify, I'll go in the

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bathroom, um, because I get nervous

and I I'll like be sweating and I'll

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be like, I did not commit this crime.

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I did not commit this crime.

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So just to just like, kind of like

reassure myself, I am a witness.

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I am just here to speak of what I know.

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You're not on the stand.

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Right.

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I'm not on the stand.

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I'm here to just speak my knowledge,

speak what I saw, and speak the

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truth, and that's the truth.

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And so, they can refute it as many

times, but the truth is the truth,

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and it's what actually will make it a

point for these animals to get justice.

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DrG: Excellent.

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Well, thank you so much for being here,

and thank you for everything that you do.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for this interview.

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Maria Serrano: Thank you so

much for interviewing me.

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It's been great.