In this episode of the Wealth Witches Podcast, host Katelyn Magnuson is joined by Dr. Darla Bishop, affectionately known as “The FinanSis,” a financial expert, author, and founder of FinanSis, LLC. Together, they dive into the intersection of money and relationships, uncovering five actionable strategies to avoid becoming part of the 41% of couples who cite financial disagreements as a leading cause of divorce.

Dr. Darla shares her journey from a challenging financial upbringing to empowering others with her practical, relatable advice, as highlighted in her book, How to Afford Everything. Through candid conversations, Katelyn and Darla explore how to bridge differing money beliefs, set shared goals, and reframe financial conversations with your partner to build a strong foundation of trust and teamwork.

Learn how to embrace money conversations with confidence, create personalized systems for financial success, and discover the magic of setting boundaries with time, money, and energy. Dr. Darla also shares a bonus tip about calculating your “magic number” to live your best financial life.

This episode is packed with real-life stories, tangible tools, and empowering advice to help you strengthen both your relationship and financial future. Tune in and transform how you and your partner approach money, connection, and life!

Key Takeaways

• How talking about money in the right setting can improve connection.
• Why exploring old money beliefs helps couples align on finances.
• How setting shared financial goals strengthens relationships.
• Why dividing money and responsibilities fairly fosters harmony.
• How bringing in professional help can ease financial tension.

Guest Bio:

Meet Dr. Darla Bishop. Affectionately known as the FinanSis, Dr. Bishop is the Founder of Finansis LLC, a boutique consulting firm based in Lansing, Michigan, and the author of How To Afford Everything.

Motivated by her own challenging childhood in Detroit, Dr. Bishop’s unique gift lies in her ability to motivate individuals to transcend limiting beliefs about wealth and cultivate a positive financial mindset. She firmly believes that empowering individuals with financial knowledge is pivotal in creating prosperous and resilient communities.

With her down-to-earth and engaging approach to money matters, Dr. Bishop’s guidance on saving and budgeting has been transformative for countless individuals and families. Her practical advice has empowered them to take charge of their financial well-being, granting them the freedom to live life on their own terms.

Outside of her work as a speaker and financial coach, Dr. Bishop is also a Professor of Health Policy at George Washington University, a director at AmeriHealth Caritas DC, and manages a portfolio of family-owned rental properties.

Connect Dr. Darla Bishop

Instagram: @my_finansis

Her book: How To Afford Everything

Time, Energy, and Money Currency Tracker (And More!)

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Music credit: Neon Fairies by Wolves 

Hello, and welcome magical creatures to the Wealth Witches podcast.

This is a place where we brew financial empowerment and mix in a little sprinkle

of magic. I'm Caitlin Magnuson, your guide on this enchanted

journey to financial enlightenment. Here, we honor all identities and

invoke our inner wishes to create holistic wealth and prosperity. So

grab your crystals, open your minds, and let's get ready to conjure some

financial clarity clarity.

Welcome back to the Wealth Witches podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin

Magnuson. Today, we have doctor Darla Bishop, who I am

so excited to have on the podcast. We're going to be chatting about 5 ways

to not be in the 41% of couples who divorce because of financial

disagreements. And if any of you are longtime listeners, you know, that

is near and dear to my heart, and I think is really important for

all of you that are listening today. So a little bit about doctor

Darla Bishop. Doctor Darla Bishop, affectionately known as the Financiest,

is the founder of Financiest LLC, a boutique consulting firm based

in Lansing, Michigan, and the author of How TO Afford Everything. Her

practical advice has empowered countless people to take charge of their

financial well-being, granting them the freedom to live life on their own

terms. Doctor Darla, welcome. I'm so

excited to have you today. Oh, you don't know

I'm excited for a magical time together.

Fancy. Yeah. No. I'm so here for it. You and I were chatting before all

of this, but I was married and divorced really early, and finances absolutely

played a really big role in that amongst many other things.

So this is such an intriguing topic for me. I know when we were, like,

chatting about it, it just really struck a chord. So I

would love to hear a little bit about, like, your background

and how you got into doing what you're doing now. I mean, I know we

got the short and dirty of it in the bio, but how did you end

up where you are today? Yeah. So I am originally from

Detroit and had all types of

weird, bad, traumatic, depending on what part of

the story we're telling, things happened to me as part of my upbringing.

And when I was away at college, I saw that some

of the other students just had a completely different lifestyle,

relationship with money, way of being. And I was like, well,

I'm here with them, and I had to overcome a whole lot of stuff to

get here to be with them. And so I'm probably a little bit smarter than

them in some ways. And so all I gotta do is figure out the money

part, and I'll be fine. And so I started reading books and then

telling my friends and my siblings and my coworkers, like, how they could be better

at money so we could go do fun things together. And also, they wouldn't get

as mad at me when I said, hey. It's not in my plan this week.

Can't do that this month. They they knew I was working a plan. Right?

And over the years, just kept giving people,

mostly solicited money advice, and had this

book inside of me and finally said, you know what? I'm gonna

write it because every time I'd read a new book or a new blog or

find a new influencer, I'd be like, I could have wrote a book. I could

have wrote that. And so my husband kind of said, you know, you've been saying

that for a while. You finally finished school because I was in school for a

very long time. Why don't you why don't you figure out what it would take

to do that? And so I did. Amazing. I love that. Yeah. I I feel

the mostly solicited advice. It can be tough sometimes, and you

spend your life talking about it or, like, you're really invested and hyper focused

and oh, wait. But, e. Waiting for the invitation is definitely

something that I've struggled with some of my friends. But now it feels really

comfortable to be able to chat about, and everyone just knows. So it's I get

asked a lot more, but it's also just a topic of conversation that comes up

when friends are here, which is nice. It is nice. You get to have that

and not it doesn't feel taboo and people can bring up things that

I know at least in our case, like, I have friends that are like, hey.

I don't even have a Roth IRA set up. What should I be doing? Or

when I come visit you, can you help me get this going? And I'm like,

yes. Yeah. Like, I would love to. It's very much the what? The rising

tide lifts all boats kind of a thing. I don't wanna be here, like, feeling

comfortable and have my friends just you wanna go do fun things with them

and engage them in the journey. That's right. And I'm actually a little bit

selfish in that. There was a situation where my husband's in the

military and we had moved and we were in the process of buying a house

and out of anger, I had paid something off because I was like, I can't

believe I'm still paying this bill. So I think I, like, paid it off and

emptied one of my savings accounts by accident. And

I called a friend and was like, hey, could I borrow in this very

specific dollar amount? And she was like, Sure, do you need it in a check?

You want me to like, how do you want me to send it to you?

And I didn't realize until 2 days later that she never asked me what I

needed the money for. She was just like, How do I get it to you?

And I was like, Damn, I've got some good friends. And And so when I

finally got around to say, hey, I noticed you never actually asked me what you

needed for, she said it was a very specific amount, and you told me when

you were going to get it back to me. So I wasn't worried about you

needing it for a specific purpose or that it would come back to me. So

I just figured we'd work on the logistics of getting it to you. That's amazing.

You. But I want friends like that who I can call. I think it was,

like, 5 it was $5,000 and some very

specific dollar amount. Right. And she had no problem sending

it to me. No problem. Insignificant amount of money. Of money. Of

people. Yeah. Right. Even if I was just holding it for 30 days, that's a

lot of money to be like, sure. I'll write you a check. And I want

all my friends to be able to be like, sure. I'll write you a check.

That's how it was amazing experience that I was like, yes. I want everybody to

be able to, like, can I hold some some money and be like, yes? Here's

a check. Amazing. I love that. That's such a

great story and especially the I don't care what it's

for. Like, you you had a plan. It was very clear to me that you

had a plan. You needed this. Yeah. It's not just, oh, hey. Can you float

me x y z? And, no, we'll figure it out. No. Like, we will figure

it out later. I know you need this for a purpose. Ugh. I love

that. I love that so much. I'm here for the

conversations around finances with our friends, with especially as

women to be having these conversations because

it's been seen, I think, as taboo or, you know, so many

women don't get involved in that. Excuse me? How many women have been running the

household finances for how many years or being responsible for it, but

then not being allowed or being seen as being able to be earners. I've

been the primary earner in my household for 15 years now,

dramatically. So I work with tons of women that are the primary

earners in their family. And even if they're not, they're big contributors.

So being able to have that conversation, which is part of the reason I think

it lays, like, dovetails so nicely today with the topic that we're chatting

about is finances and relationships and marriages

are complex. And I would

love to hear your thoughts on, you know, how to end up not being a

part of that statistic. Yeah. So upwards of

41% of people divorce in their stated primary reason. There's

usually a list, but that top reason is around financial

disagreements. And this makes sense if you think about

it just like past that first statistic that we are all raised

by different people. Even sometimes your siblings, even though they had the same

parents, end up different. Right? And so you've met this

person as an adult. They already have some habits, some behaviors, some

beliefs that are formed. And if you've recently watched Inside Out,

beliefs are formed as early as 11 and can be pretty

tight even from that age. And so you're meeting them as a young adult,

maybe even a not so young adult, and now have to figure out how

to live together. And so one of the pieces that I

think communication always gets a bad rap, because they're like well you

probably just didn't communicate. Well communication is both

art and science and when it comes to money depending on

those beliefs, those values, those habits,

those behaviors, depending on how compatible you are when it comes to

money. 1 person might be like, yes let's talk about money all the time. I

love talking about money. I love us having a plan. I love us writing things

down and looking at the bank accounts and being a team and the other person,

no we don't talk about We do it, we make sure it works, and we

move on. And so you have to figure out where is the

bridge, and what are the settings, the

actual physical environments that allow for those

conversations to happen so that when they are a little

uncomfortable at first, because the first few times you do it, it's not gonna be

great. And but then the more practice you have at

talking about money and having that conversation

and asking questions and answering that questions and getting that back and

forth, it really does make a difference. And so communication

is part of it, but how and where that communication happens

absolutely matters. So one of the techniques I usually recommend to people who are having

a hard time is something I learned in a psychology class about

parents who need to get to talk to their teenagers. Right?

Like, actually, the car can be a fantastic place for these conversations

because you're intimate, right, you're physically close together,

You are in a closed off space, so it's okay to have a private or

sensitive conversation. Because you're in the car, you're physically

close, but you're not looking at one another. And so you can take that moment

to take a deep breath, to calm yourself down, look out the window, say, I

cannot believe he just said that, if that's what you need to do.

Right? And also have that intimate moment

without that kind of conflict of being face to face.

And so if money is a hard thing for you all to talk about,

figure out what the best place to have it. And then start having

conversations only in that best place, whether that's on a dinner

date, on a long car ride, when the kids are away if you

already have children and you're in the middle of doing something, but

figure out the time and the place because that could be one small

change that's really easy to make that makes the conversation just go

smoother because you're in the right setting. Absolutely.

I love having conversations in the car, whether it's finance related or not

because it is it takes away that element of confrontation, I feel like.

Even though we're together by ourselves most of the time, the second that you're face

to face, it can feel a little more aggressive

at times. Yeah. That's right. And especially if there's sensitivity. Right?

Because you if you're coming in each with your own set

of behaviors and habits and beliefs around money, because this beliefs

part is really hard to get to because we don't always know that

our parents give us these gifts of how to think

about money, of how to talk about money, about how to use money until we

sit down and really think about it, which is rare. Right? Most of the time,

we're just living our lives. We're doing the best we can. We're learning a little

bit. We're doing the things that hopefully bring us joy in some of the things

that we just know we have to do. But unless you've actually sat down and

said, every time this comes up, I think this about money. And where

does that come from? Unless you've actually done that work, and most of

us have it, you might not know that you're carrying around a

belief from your mom or from your dad that really made sense

for their situation. Right? But does it make sense for where you

are? And so you might have to say thank you, belief, but you no longer

serve me. Have a nice life somewhere else. I have a

really interesting real world example of that that my husband and I had to work

through. Again, on the surface, our backgrounds are

very similar. Our families are relatively similar income class, similar work history,

very differing money beliefs. And I have

been self employed the majority of my adult life, and my husband

worked, in my opinion, a job without a lot of advancement potential.

It was safe. It was medium paying,

and it was comfortable. And I had job hopped corporate wise and

also had my business that I've been running because to me, you can be let

go from a job at any point in time. Right? So having my business, the

chance of all of your income vanishing from your business overnight seemed

much more like something I could control. Right? The the likelihood of that, I was

playing the statistics. And we finally got into a heated conversation about it

one time because I was just nagging on him. You You should leave your job.

You should leave your job. You should leave your job. What are you doing? And

he, on the flip side, felt like what I was doing was unstable

because it's it's self employment. And he actually said I don't know I don't know

if I've said this on the podcast before, but he said about 10 years ago,

I don't think that you're gonna be able to support us or that this is

going to work. And I got my little Taurus Scorpio, you

know, stubbornness and I was like, woo hoo. You just told me I can't do

it. Watch me. Which, yeah, can be good. It

can be a little toxic at times, but I realized, like, through my own, you

know, self improvement journey, he watched his dad work

jobs that were much more stable over the years

and his dad's one foray into self employment

never succeeded. And so there was that story there. I watched

my dad work as an electrician and have very unstable

lucrative, but unstable job histories.

And my parents had a business for a while that was successful until they closed

up shop and did that. And so it was just interesting to me the differences

from such a seemingly similar background. And so for us to finally

reconcile that we had like, we were coming out from 2

similar but very different spots, and that's where so much of our conflict

was. That's right. And the tough part about it is it didn't come

up until there was a big conflict. And so it's, woah.

We're in the middle of a flight, but that was really important information we just

uncovered. How do we take advantage of the information while we're still both,

like, real heated? Because you just told me my business is gonna fail, and I

wanna use some choice words that I probably shouldn't use with the person who I've

declared recently that is, like, the most the person I love most other than myself.

Yes. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. But that happens. And I think too the other thing that I

wanna encourage anyone in any type of relationship, whether it's a relationship with your

parents, your siblings, a significant other, a spouse,

is all this shit is made up. All of it. If you go

to another country, if you go to another county, if you go to another

town, the way that people do things to make their lives

work is always gonna be a little bit different because it's all made

up. Mhmm. All this shit is made up. And so if you and

the person you're in a relationship can figure out what works for you,

the people in the relationship, awesome. And what everybody else has

to say doesn't really matter because they're not in the relationship. But that

takes a lot. That takes a lot of bravery. It takes a lot of courage.

It takes a lot of stick to it ness because the

people around you will ask questions and share

opinions and share advice and usually, thankfully, from a place of

love. But you still gotta hold strong and say, well, thank you so much for

that, and then ignore it. Because if it's working in your relationship

and both people in the relationship or, you know, all three people, whatever you got

going on, the economy's tough. I have considered polyamory. Alright? So

if the people in the relationship are safe and feel like you're

moving in the same direction, that's what matters.

Exactly. It takes both individuals to be strong

in that individually and together to

move forward in that way. I think that can be tough, especially when you have

a parent or a trusted close person to you that not nefariously,

you know, like, chatting in your ear, but, I mean, I think I've even talked

about this on here. We generally sleep in separate bedrooms now because we both sleep

better. That was, like, exploded. My

parents thought that we were headed for divorce. It's like, also not the worst thing

in the world At the end of the day, it's I'm not scared of it.

Right? Like, I am here. I am in it, but I'm not in it if

it's no longer healthy. But that it just felt like such a weird, oh my

god. Why aren't you sleeping in the same room? Well, because he likes to watch

South Park all night and have white noise in the background. I like to have

a completely blacked out quiet room with brown noise playing and

with a weighted blanket on. I am then those are not

compatible. Same thing with money. Right? Right. He's not working outside of the household.

He's very much a homemaker now, which is very much a traditional swap of the

roles that you see. And it's been interesting to live in a much more conservative

area now than we did originally. And some of the pushback or the

assumptions or the beliefs that others put on you, they all assume that he,

like, retired from tech and he's fronting our lifestyle. I'm like and he's

great about yeah. Nope. My wife owns a company. This is what we're doing.

But does it matter at the end of the day? Those are their assumptions. If

what we're doing is good for us and we love it and we make tweaks

as we need it, fuck cares. Right. As humans, you

know, we are meant to be in community. And because of the way

that our societies have changed and shifted and evolved and mixed,

we are all having to chart our own path in so many

ways that isn't the same

that maybe 2000 years ago when folks were in the same tribe with

really being all related to one another, having the same geographical

issues, the same food demands. Right? These are not things they had to

work out, whereas, like, we now are all mixed up and have all these different

histories and we're but we're coming together. And so we have to really

create our own thing, and that takes work. And it

takes, again, a lot of courage and a lot of thank you

for sharing your opinion. That does not matter to me without alienating the people

in your community because we need to be a community. Right? That's how we survive.

That's how we thrive. And so yeah. Right. Sure.

Especially yeah. Assuming that it comes from a place of caring. Thank

you. I'm gonna do what works for us. Appreciate it. Know that you

love me, but what works for you may not be what works for us.

Yeah. But then there's also that dynamic of, well, how do I maintain a positive

relationship with that person as well as in my household as

well as on this side. Right? So it's a lot of juggling. And one of

the things that can also help with that, and this is I think we're if

we're counting, this would be number 3, is setting common goals.

Right? Because working together towards anything,

it gives you really good practice at that

communication. It gives especially once you have some wins, maybe when you

have setbacks, being able to talk through that

and to see how the other person kind of reacts and to give them the

space, and to let them give you the space and the grace as things work

and as things don't are really helpful, especially if you can do it with small

things early in your relationship. You know, like, having

some common goal is really amazing and especially

if they're little. You know something as, we want to save up for this type

of wedding, you know, if you're at that stage in your relationship, we want to

save up for this type of vacation, you know, I'd really like to do this

thing for my parents, I'd really like to do this thing for my siblings. How

do we make that work? And, yeah, creating

some common goals to work towards is awesome,

especially when it's, like, low risk, when it's something happy. Because if you can get

that practice in when something big and crazy and possibly bad

happens because you've had all that practice with the little things, the negotiation

of how to figure this out, how to get out of this issue is easier

because you've had all this practice. That muscle is warmed up.

I love that. I absolutely love looking at it as, like, a muscle that you've

trained. You've warmed up. You've like, why not do it with something that's fun

when you can of your choosing instead of waiting to

have to figure it out when something potentially negative, catastrophic, etcetera. Medical bills or, you

know, there's so many things that pop up. Catastrophic, etcetera. Medical bills or, you know,

there's so many things that pop up. A parent that needs elder care,

like, your own disability, chronic illness. There are so many things that

life can throw at you that require very good

communication, but also, like, collaborating. And I I

yeah. I I love being able to collaborate on shared goals,

whether they're less savory or exciting, but

it's because we've been practicing for years now. That's right. And so the

more you do it, the easier it gets. You know? Like, I used to work

in sexual education, and so I remember you could

always tell the kids who had parents who talked to them about sex all the

time versus the kids who had parents who were like, no. We don't talk about

that in this house. Because just the level of comfort, what things they shared, what

things they were happy happy to answer versus shy about. And it's just because those

kids with the parents who talked about sex all the time with them, whether they

loved it or hated it, they just had a lot more vocabulary and a lot

more practice. And so same thing. Same thing with your money. Just

talk about it all the time. Even if it's uncomfortable because soon enough you'll be

like, woah. We were just talking about money, and I didn't even realize. Because everything

you do, for better or worse, in this society has a

time consequence as well as a money consequence. And

usually that also means an energy consequence. Right? Like how much

energy do I need to expend to get past this or through

this or to the other side? And so if you can think about things in

that way and be like, if we make this decision, what's the money consequence going

to be? And how do we work through that? What's the time

consequence gonna be, and how do we work through that? Will it affect our energy

individually or even together? And that's a kind of a

simple framework to Mhmm. Start the conversation if you're not sure where or

how to start. I love that. That's a really great way to frame it

because I think for so long, the energy aspect of that was left out of

the discussions that we were having in our household. We you know, the time and

the money are very obvious. But for us, it would come

down to if we were prioritizing a goal or changing work hours or changing how

we divvy things up, that might mean that 1 or more of us had taken

on additional work, which might mean that things at home need to be

shuffled or help need to be brought in or, you know, what's that trade off

there? Are we willing to make it? And I think that until

it may be ended up in a not so healthy explosion

or breakdown of I'm overwhelmed. I can't do this, and being able to figure out

like, oh, one of us has taken on more than the other. Maybe it's time

to shuffle. That's right. And, I mean, we talked about this a little bit

earlier in this conversation, but I remember when we first got

engaged, we had decided to move in together because I had made it

really clear that I was fine with going to the courthouse because I didn't wanna

go into debt for a wedding. Mhmm. And my husband has a large family.

He said, I cannot do that. My parents will disown me. But on the other

side of that, they will probably help us if we are organized. But I was

like, oh, organized? That's my middle name. No problem. Do they want the spreadsheet

or they just wanna know what we want help with? And but

shortly after he moved in, I realized we were fighting over

stupid stuff like dishes in the sink because I

realized that while he wasn't a messy person or a

dirty person, he also did not care what the condition of the

house was. He just didn't care. And so he could walk past something. I'm like,

you didn't see that? He's yeah. But, like, I figured you would take care of

it later or it was there for a reason or, you know, like, I don't

know, like, whatever. And on one hand, that was super helpful because

if I had a crazy week or day or month, there was no

pressure from him about, hey. Are you gonna wash those dishes? It was like, the

dishes are there. Who cares? But at the same time, if I wanted the house

clean and he's the why, we're there there's who was

coming over to see if the house is clean or not? Right? And so

recognizing that, I was like, well, dishes are a really stupid reason for us to

fight, especially because, like, we are going towards marriage, which we

both said we are only doing this one time because of what our our own

blended families and how we weren't really trying to be that. It's too many people

to invite. We had too many people to invite to our own wedding because of

all the marriages that the parents did on either

side. And so I remember I was like,

hey. I noticed we've been fighting, and so I think I would

like to propose us getting a cleaning service. And he was like, can we afford

that? I was like, yes. It would only cost us this much. You just need

to put this much more from each paycheck into the bank account because

we, at that point, had decided to do hybrid. Joy is in

hers. And he was like, oh, yeah. That doesn't sound so bad. I was like,

yeah. Because we're gonna split it. And so the cleaning lady came the first

time, and he was like, this is awesome. I didn't think we could ever would

ever be able to have the cleaning lady. I was like, yeah. And I remember

I told my mom, and my mom was like, who do you think

you are? The queen of Sheba? You can't clean your own

house? And I was like, well, mom, actually,

I decided to do it because I think the cleaning service costs, like, maybe a

$150 a month if it's one of the longer months where she ends up coming

3 times instead of just 2 times. And that is way

cheaper than marriage counseling. And she was like, you know what? Never

thought of it that way. She hasn't bothered me since, and that was

almost 20 years ago at this point. What a great reframe. Yeah. We

my mom luckily had a cleaner for a while when we were in high school,

and they were both working full time and life had gotten really busy. And I

don't know what the behind the door closed conversations were leading up to that,

but both my parents had taken on domestic duties off and on

throughout our childhood. But when I went to hire someone to help when I

was working full time, David was working full time, and I had my

business, he balked and there were some limiting beliefs around him. Do I

was like, my hourly is 125.

For me, it is a no brainer if I can pay

someone less than that, but it's also a no brainer if they're better

at something than I am or it frees me up. You don't

want to do like, there are a lot of household chores that we'll share. We

both hate doing laundry and we hate cleaning bathrooms.

And I don't love doing dishes. He does most of the dishes now, but it

took some finessing. It took so much stress off of our relationship for like

$200 a month. Yes. And what it is is you don't realize

that you're both weighed down. Right? Because

even if one person is doing more, you're both probably doing

something. And there's also the weighing

of, am I doing enough? Are they doing enough that comes into it

and wanting to try to get the balance right but messing it up because we're

humans and we're trying to figure it out, and we're both just trying to live

our best lives together, but also separately because we're still

individuals. Right? And so I remember

that was exactly it. My husband was like, do you think we could get a

lawn service now? He was convinced. It just opens the whole yeah. He was like,

oh, well, if we got the inside the house, you know, cutting the grass has

been kind of annoying. Do you think we could fit that in the budget? And

I was like, yeah. Sure. We can call around, get some quotes,

see what it would cost us. And then that

helped because then now we could do what we wanted on our weekends instead of

spending half of the day in the yard, which was, at that stage in our

life, really important and helpful. And we could go and do things and go

to brunch and have a lazy morning instead of, having to get up and cut

grass and trim bushes because we had a big yard at that time. And

so it was a several hour endeavor. Absolutely. No.

I think that it is we were probably year 4, I think, when

we started hiring out in our relationship, and it was like night and day.

We didn't hire out yard things because David really enjoys doing and even now

we have acres and he enjoys doing all the yard things and the snow removal

and the but the inside things.

Delightful. I love that open the doors, though. And he was like, oh, man.

We could hire out for this. We could yeah. It's a game changer when you

can have more time for yourself. If it's something that you love

doing. Right. No. But if it's something that you're, you don't

love or it's not effective.

Yeah. One of the things that I recently spoke at a conference and I talked

about the 3 currencies of time, money, and energy. And one of the

activities I had them walk through is I said, okay. This will probably

piss you off, so take a deep breath before you do it. I want you

to write down everything on your to do list this week. Everything.

House, kids, work, business,

family, personal, self care. And I gave

them some time and those lists were long. I said, okay, take your

deep breath because you're probably pissed about how much is on your list and on

your plate. I said, now I want you to circle

any of the things you actually love or even just like doing. Something

that when you do it, it makes you happy or you like the result better

when you do it. What are the things you actually get some pleasure

from? And so they circle that. I said, okay. Now

I want you to star anything that only you can

do because, you know, like, I'm the only person who can actually go to my

doctor's appointment. Other so Right. Can make it for me, but I I

can't send a surrogate to my doctor's appointment. Like, it doesn't work like that.

Yeah. And so, you know, they go and star. I say, okay. Guess

what? Anything that doesn't have a star or a circle is a

list of stuff that you no longer have to do. Now

just because you do it better or because you think it goes smoother,

But if you're feeling overwhelmed because when y'all wrote the list, I saw the looks

on your faces about, oh, this list is long. Take

some things off. If you needed the permission, I'm giving it to you today. And

so if there's a listener who is like, oh, but I don't know if I

can do that. If you can find the space, if you can and if

money isn't the thing you have, do a trade. I am a military spouse,

and so many women and not all women, but mainly of the

spouses in my community do not work because it's just too hard to have

board career progression depending on what your training and educational

background is. And so many of the spouses opt out of the workforce

for several years, but that doesn't mean they don't get tired

of watching however many kids they have. And so one of the things I always

recommend in my community is say, hey. You know that other mom who also has

3 kids? She's probably feeling the exact same way you do. So what you do

is y'all do a trade 2 hours a week. For 2 to 4 hours a

week, you take all the kids. So you're in charge of 6 kids for 2

to 4 hours, but then on a different day, she's in charge of the 6

kids. So that way, you all get a couple of hours to stare at the

wall, to take a shower. You know, the kind where you do all the things

where you shave Everything showers. Yeah. You do your deep conditioning,

and you actually fully wash your body. Right? So that you if because if

you have 2 hours to do that, and the kids are in someone

else's care that you trust because 6 kids is not that different than 3

kids once they're all together, and, you know, you only got to do it for

a few hours. Right. And so so trade that off. And, like, the women

who've said, you know what? That's a good idea. And they say, it's made an

amazing difference. Like, I actually washed my hair this week, or I really did

stare at a wall for an hour and a half, and I had just enough

more inside of me to keep going.

I think that's really powerful. I was thinking again, not not having children,

writing that list out. I was like, you know, I'm really good at finding things

that I don't wanna do anymore. But even then, but just in the mental list,

there are a few things on there that might need to be

rearranged a little, maybe reprioritized. I love that.

What's your next tip for us? Okay. So number 4

Mhmm. Is figure out the right division of not

only responsibilities, but money. Right? Because I know for

some families, it makes sense to put everything in the same pot. I

know for some families, it makes no sense, and so they keep everything separate, and

they just divide. Okay. You're in charge of this set of bills or responsibilities, and

you're in charge of this set of bills or responsibilities. And in some

families, the hybrid approach is what works. And so and that's actually the

approach we use, and there's a a really specific reason why we did this. When

we were first starting to combine everything, I was still

managing some responsibilities for my mom and my

siblings. And, frankly, if I'm honest,

I didn't want him to have a say in what I could and couldn't do

for my family. And so I'd kind of proposed, like, hey. Let's

have a ours and then a his and hers. So, one, you

don't feel upset or have control over what

I do for my mom because that was really important to me, and I also

didn't want it to be a source of conflict unnecessarily. But I also

didn't want him to feel responsible for doing those things

for my mom because that was a choice I made and came into the relationship

with. Right? And I also thought, you know, it'd be easier

too if you wanna go spend $2,000 on audio equipment,

real story, then what am I gonna do? I can't be like, why did you

spend $2,000 on audio equipment? I'll be like, oh, this equipment

looks really nice, and just leave it at that. Right? Because

it it wasn't part of the joint money. Exactly. And it

that approach actually forced a level of communication

that I think has been really good for us where now once a

quarter, we have a money meeting where we go over,

okay, this is how much money we're putting into the joint accounts. This is how

our bills line up. Is enough money going in? Do we have any

upcoming expenses that we need to plan for? Travel, wedding, birthday

parties, changes to the kids' schedules or sports

setup, and then we make the adjustments as necessary. We

take notes. We email it to ourselves, and then we do it all again

3 ish months later. And that has been super helpful because then

we're talking about it. And now it's we're so good at it.

It's not that we're starting with the money. We're starting with the lifestyle

piece. Oh, what's on our calendar? What's happening with the kids? You know?

Are we do we already buy plane tickets for that trip we've been talking about,

and do we have enough hotel points? And do we need to transfer things?

Right? So we're talking about the lifestyle stuff and then being like, okay. So what's

the money consequence? And making a plan about it. But it's awesome because it means

all the time we're just talking about what's coming up for us and what we're

excited about, and are the kids gonna like it, and did we make the

arrangements, and how do we make it easy for ourselves to travel and to have

a good time? And it's awesome, and I hope everyone who's

in a relationship gets to a place where those conversations are just part of

your life, and it feels good to have someone to work through that stuff

with. You get to future cast together, which I think is really

exciting. It's so funny that you say you guys do that once a quarter. I

was when we were both working prior to moving out here, we would

go over everything about once a quarter because my income was very

variable for quite a while despite being a higher income on average, and

David's was very consistent. And so there were times where we had

joint finances for a while. I didn't love that neither did he because

we both we grew up with parents that had joint finances,

and our fathers had allowances. And we didn't love the infantilization

that sort of brought to the picture. And but we both

can be big spenders. I spend a lot on travel. He

spends a lot on toys, you know, motorcycles and

dirt bikes and quads and remote control cars. And

we would find ourselves getting so frustrated because we I have I

I don't begrudge him that, but I don't wanna see the bill come out of

the account for it. That's right. And it we separated

out, and we now have completely and have maintained completely separate finances with

joint decision making. Yes. And so mostly because had

we continued the way that we were, we probably would have had one joint account

and done the hybrid approach like the 2 of you were doing. But for

us, with him, like, his income source comes from our business

now. And so that makes things very clean. Like, he has his own

couple of bills that he manages. Everything else is essentially joint at this

point while, like, still being separate. But it was we've had a

discussion once a quarter. Hey. This is how my income has changed this quarter based

on what's going on next quarter because we want it to be equitable. Right? I

don't want him if he's making half of what I'm making to have no fun

money to spend. That's not fair to him. And I also don't wanna be contributing

90% of my income to something and him going and effing off with the rest

of his money when I have no play money. And I I they did

really help the discussions to be having, and it was about once a quarter. We

didn't have a set date, which we we should have, but that's just kind of

how it had come up. Like, we do quarterly estimates for the business, and that's

when I had a discussion because I'm like, hey. Time to, like, chitchat.

And it worked really well to build a move responsibilities around that way

for it to feel fair. And then we'd have a check-in normally after about a

month or so of any big changes. Hey. Is this feeling good?

Yes. And then assuming that it was a yes or no. Otherwise, we, you know,

re up like, we update what we were doing, and it worked really well. And

when you're first starting out, it probably needs to be a little more frequent.

Like, maybe not weekly, but maybe once a month because you're just

one, you're learning each other's patterns and styles and preferences.

And so doing it a little more frequently in the beginning helps you

kinda get there a little faster. And then once you all are in a

fairly well knowing situation, then about quarterly is

about how frequently your life will change. Right? Just because school

semesters, you know, quarterly business goals, whether you're working for a

company or on your own, you know, seasons for sports, if you're also

parenting seasons for your for the other adults in your

life, you know, the your parents or siblings, like, what things are having on. So

quarterly is about right. Like, businesses running quarters on purpose.

Right. Yeah. No. That's been the interesting update for us in the last year

or so as it's moved from discussions about, like, our

own individual finances to we have aging parents and grandparents, and our

responsibilities are changing and that causes both our personal schedules. Like,

the most recent reassessment we had to do is we need someone at our house

more to help because the 2 of us are gone really frequently right now

with family responsibilities, work responsibilities, travel responsibilities, and that

was a discussion that had to be held between the 2 of us was we

we need need help at home. There's not That's right. Like, our

time requirements, our energy requirements Mhmm. Are

changing. And so our money requirements are changing a little

bit too. Right. And in your relationship, you know, like,

almost nothing will be forever except maybe your love for one another. Right?

And so if what we need right now is this, do

it. Get it done. Get in get the help you need. Get the

resources in and shift to make it easier. Right? And

then as soon as things lighten up or change or you need something different, change

it. Like, the cool thing about having a life partner

is that you should literally be married to 27 different people by

the time it's all said and done. Right? Because if I was the same

person that met my husband at 19,

now nearly 20 years later, we would have some bigger

issues. Right? Like like, you were supposed to evolve and grow and

change and shift, and the beautiful part about having a life partner through that

is they can both remind you of things that have been important to you along

the way. Hey. There's this common theme in your life. So even though you

shifted careers or even though you shifted how you like to spend your time and

your energy, remember, these things have always been important to you. Where is that

in your current plan? But they also can say, well, remember we

changed this 10 years ago, and it worked out fine? So they can also be

the reminder that, like, us changing something, us shifting something, it always works

out for us. Right. So go for it. Yeah. No. I feel

like we've lived a 1000 lives in the last 12 years, and it's so interesting

to me to reflect back on that at times. And I didn't go into it

expecting my husband to be anyone other than who he was. But the evolution that

the 2 of us have had is just it's so interesting. So beautifully said.

Hey there, magical listener. Are you ready to take your financial journey to the next

level? This is Caitlin Magnuson inviting you to join us at the Wealth

Witches monthly program where we dive even deeper into the cauldron of

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wealthier self is waiting.

I think we're at 4. So then number 5 is, you know,

bring in help. And when it comes to the money piece,

sometimes, if the conversations are

really tougher than you think they should be or could be, then

this is a great time to bring somebody in, and that could be a

wide range of professionals. That could be somebody like me who's a

pseudo professional. Right? I don't have licenses, and that's on purpose because when you have

a license, when you have certifications, there are certain things you can't talk about. And

sometimes I need to get down with you and be like, stop. No. It has

a a licensed person might not be able to say it the same way. And

so I have made that choice even though I've had the option to, like, not

go. So maybe you need a coach, someone who can, like, really get down, who

knows the stuff, but can be flexible how they help you get there. Mhmm. Maybe

you do need a certified financial planner or similar person who can

really talk about the numbers and how the different

choices and investments or not that you're making will look now

mid term, long term. Maybe you need a therapist because maybe

money is where it's showing up, but that you need some help with the

framework and how you talk about hard things. Right? And that's okay.

Maybe you need a will

attorney and an estate attorney because maybe

what is causing the issue is, like, maybe, like you said, you know, you're in

this life stage where your individual as a couple finances are pretty

solid, but you have these other things coming in from the growing the old

the parents who are growing older and who have different needs and then are

tapping into you differently. Right? Tapping into your energy and your time and your

money differently. And so sometimes sitting down under the framework of an estate

plan, because you gotta talk about so many things, can actually be really

enlightening because you what in what other setting would you know

that your spouse really wants to create a scholarship in the

honor of their aunt? Right? Like, when would that have come up? Only in

the situation where it's okay. You you've died, and what do you want in your

money that's left over to go once we've taken care of all of the need

to be taken care of things? And you're like, oh, I didn't realize that was

important to you. We can actually work that into our plan before you die if

you'd like. Right. Right. It can let you see one another in a a

different light and more fully. Mhmm. So call in to

help. If it's feeling tougher, and then make sure whoever the is

the most reluctant part of the pair, let

them pick the person because they just need to be in the

conversation in a way that feels good Mhmm. And the other person

just needs the conversation to happen. So let the more reluctant person

get comfortable with who the professional is that's

helping because it'll go smoother that way. I love that.

Yeah. We've become very familiar with trusts recently.

It has been a a deep dive into all of that

over the last couple of years. And the biggest thing I think that I would

add to that is making sure that you feel like you can talk to

who you're working with. I I know that I see it happen in in my

profession. I'm sure you see it happen with some of the clients that you work

with, but one of those people that come to us, oh my gosh. It's like

I can actually share things with you. That that kind of should be the goal

when you're working frankly with anything in your life, but especially when it comes to

like money, legal matters, etcetera, like you should be able to

share because it impacts the bigger picture of every facet of

your life. That's right. Like when it comes down to it, you

as an individual are the CEO and CFO of your

life, so hire and fire accordingly. If the

team of professionals who are on your team aren't giving you what you need or

making you feel weird or you feel like you can't be open with them, find

somebody else. There are lots of other professionals who might

be your style, who might be your speed, who just might just put you

at ease so that you can lay it all out.

Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's really important. I think it's a lot of times I

think people will think that they don't have the right to that necessarily or they

just found who they found, and it's heartbreaking because I know that's what I look

for in any professional that I work with. I wanna be able to actually, like,

engage by check for, you know, lack of a deeper term. Like, we should

be able to just, like I say, we'll be best friends, but is there a

level of communal understanding? I wanna feel like you're my friend even if I only

talk to you about my money once a quarter. Yes. I still wanna be, like,

looking forward to oh, I'm talking to Gillette. I'm so excited. I've had

many things to tell her. She's not gonna be mad at me about this thing,

but maybe about this thing, but we're gonna work it out. You know? Like, you

wanna have that sing, soggy walk as you're on your way to your appointment, not

that, oh, I gotta go sing, soggy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're not

dreading it. You're not dragging your feet. You're excited as much as you

can be, right, for some of the more potentially mundane things in life for some

people. So I I love that. I would love to hear more

about your book as well. Okay. So I wrote a book

called how to afford everything. Here it is. This is my

Cute. This is my, emotional support copy. You see it's all tattered

and it's got my tags and my highlights because this is the one I carry

with me literally everywhere I go. But anytime I do, you know, a speaking gig

or a coaching session, because I'm like here right here on page 125.

But I wrote the book actually in 127

days because I had been thinking about it

for so long, for over a decade. I had all these outlines that I had

started. I had a different angle that I was going to take in an earlier

version of the book and never really got far with it. And

hired an editor after I interviewed, I think, 8 or 9 because I

was really concerned about it needed to be it needed to sound like me. It

needed to be in my voice. It had to be me in paper form.

Right. And so going through all those editors, I finally found the one who was

like, okay. She gets it. She repeated back to me something that I said way

earlier in the conversation. It felt like she got it. So, like, we're hiring her.

And from the time I paid the editor to the time I was holding this

little baby in my hand was a 127 days because I had

all these worksheets and presentations and things that I

had been doing over the years. Mhmm. And we just put it into book form,

and it was awesome. It was like I'd expect it to be

publishing in April of this year, but it came out

in December because we were rolling. Cow. Wow. Yeah. We were

rolling. That's impressive. And

I wrote it know the material. Like Yeah. And I wrote it for

people who are starting out or starting over, who maybe

have some of the basics down, but know or

wants or wish that their financial lives could be smoother, could it

be easier, could they could just afford to say yes, that they could just

afford to do the things they needed to do. Because I believe that all working

people deserve that. Right? Deserve to have some level of peace and

comfort when it comes to money. Because I know the difference. I've had a little

bit of money. I've had negative money, and I have now that I have a

little, like, money is fun, and I want people to know that. I want people

to feel that. I want people that if I ask them, okay. If money was

a person, how would you describe them? They're like, oh, money's my buddy.

Money takes me on fun adventures. Money helps me solve problems.

Money helps me do the things that make my life run smoothly so that

I can attract, do the things that bring me joy and happiness.

Yeah. Yes. I

want people to I think working people deserve that. Working people deserve to

feel that way. At least at some point in their lives. You

know? I think for so long, having been so

broke in my early twenties when I was in college and working for jobs

and didn't have sick time and work. It was

it felt like you just could never it was really interesting relationship with money. And

then to get to the point where it was like, okay. This can actually open

up opportunities. This can give me choices. This can give me freedom.

This like, freedom to choose what my life

looked like. And I'm not, you know, there it's not Jeff

Bezos up in this house. Mm-mm. But, like, for so many reasons.

But there's a very interesting change that happens when

you get to the point where money isn't some avoidant

attachment or, you know, you have it and then it's gone and it's a secure

attachment and you just get this is great. This is comfortable. Like, we love money.

We love talking about money. We love saving money. We love spending money. We love

earning money. Like, we love teaching about money. Like, all of us.

Yeah. It's such a different relationship, and I I agree. I would love for everyone

in their life to be able to feel that way and feel the possibilities that

come with the money. There's magic there. In fact so

bonus. So we already talked about the 5 things couples can do. Right? So the

bonus tip, and this is for individuals or people in couples, is I talk about

a magic number. So budgeting gets a bad rep. Right? Like, people

don't like budgeting. It's hard. It never works for me. It's like a

diet. Right? But part of it is because people don't

actually know their magic number, and this is the number

of what it actually cost you to live your life the best day, the best

week, the best month ever. And so if you don't take anything else from this

conversation today, I want you to sit down and write down what it

actually cost you to live your best life ever, where

the bills are paid, you can go out to brunch or lunch or dinner, whatever

your fancy is, an emergency comes up, you turn into an inconvenience instead of

it being an emergency. What is that number for you on a month to month

basis or an annual basis? And write it down.

And just having that knowledge

is powerful. So calculate your magic

number. And if you're in a partnership, each of you should

calculate it to see if there's a new word. Yes. I because

I I think I I know in our partnership, it would be very, I think,

very different, but but I also think that there may be a lack of awareness

sometimes around especially when you have a business. I think that has to be factored

in as well. Right? Because you sort would sort of have a business magic number

that, like, factors into your personal. That's right. I love that, though. I'm gonna do

that, and I'm gonna write out the list that you laid out earlier with the

stars and the circles. Well, put it on my website, Darla Bishop.com

Perfect. Slash resources as a freebie. And this is

the time, energy, money, currency

tracker. Okay. And we'll link to it in the notes. Yeah. I think that would

be awesome and super valuable for everyone. Speaking of, where

all can everyone find you? Where do you live most often? Yes. And

so I am most active on LinkedIn and Instagram because I know

how to work those. Fair. I have helpers

who help me in other places, but I'm really the one posting on those two

properties because I know how to work those from my phone.

Amazing. Okay. Perfect. And my website is Darla Bishop.com.

I have tons of freebies on the resource center. You can

actually read a sample chapter, and it's not Awesome. It's not just like the

intro chapter. I actually, on purpose, put the summary chapter. So that way you could

be like, okay. What is this girl talking about? So the summary chapter

is there. Look at you adulting. One of my favorites.

Aw. There's also a list of other podcasts I visit. This will be

there so that if you just wanna try me out to hear and I tell

all my best stories and lessons on podcasts anyway. So listen in.

Absolutely. Okay. That's amazing. Carla, thank you so

much. This was an absolute delight, and I love

getting to chat. Money, magic, relationships,

everything altogether. Right? Because they're it's just so intertwined. And I think being able to

bring that little bit of sparkle into it can be where so many of us

are really lacking in the financial space. You know, you

have logistics. You understand, like, the meat and potatoes, but, like, we're at

sprinkles. That's right. So thank you for bringing the sprinkles and the

meat and potatoes today. Oh, thank you for having me.

That's a wrap for this episode of the Wealth Witches podcast. I hope our

magical money talks have left you feeling empowered and inspired.

Remember, wealth isn't just about dollars in the bank, it's about abundance and

financial freedom in all aspects of your life. I'm Caitlin Magnuson

encouraging you to keep challenging the status quo and embrace your inner witch on

this financial journey. Until next time. Stay

magical.