The Business of Coaching: Vision, Strategy, and Avoiding Costly Mistakes

Angie and John discuss the dos and don’ts of building a coaching business, reflecting on how they started with little guidance and often spent money on marketing and setup that didn’t work. They emphasise creating a clear vision of what “success” looks like (lifestyle solopreneur vs. scaling with staff), understanding finances and time constraints, and following a general progression from one-to-one coaching to groups and then scaling. They warn against getting distracted by non-priorities, overspending without a strategy, and growing too quickly, sharing an example of a startup that scaled fast and had to lay off its team. They critique coaching “job” postings that are actually franchises or MLM-like models, urging due diligence, and stress the value of trustworthy mentorship plus expert advice on legal structure and tax efficiency.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Business of Coaching

01:36 Starting Without a Handbook

03:44 Roadmaps and Realities

06:50 Vision and Growth Stages

11:24 LinkedIn Coaching Schemes

13:46 Franchise vs MLM Warning

20:05 Scaling Too Fast Lessons

25:36 Spend With Strategy

27:01 Pay Coaches and Value People

30:24 Taxes, Mentors and Wrap Up

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2023 Present Influence Productions Coaching Clinic: scale your business, acquire high ticket clients & master coaching skills 86

Angie (2): you and I have been having

some really interesting conversations

2

John: Oh, we have?

3

Angie: right.

4

Less about actual coaching and more

about the business of coaching.

5

Right?

6

Good.

7

Dos and don'ts, I think is what

it really came down to, right?

8

John: Yeah, which, interestingly

has reflected some conversations

9

I've been having elsewhere as well.

10

So very interesting that that

should come up for us too.

11

Angie: I think it's interesting, for me,

when I started, when I wanted to begin

12

and start a business, I had this desire,

and I wanna say this appropriately, but It

13

was almost if I was opening a storefront,

a brick and mortar, would it, would

14

have furniture and details and curtains.

15

And so how did that translate

to a business that I wasn't

16

structuring that way.

17

I was gonna be doing it from home and

in my office, and I had this desire

18

to have all of the things meaning.

19

I need, an admin or somebody to

answer the phones, and I need somebody

20

to handle all of my marketing.

21

And so my intention was what I believed

to be the right way to start a business.

22

And how do you think that worked out?

23

John: Maybe better than

it, my version of that.

24

Um, I, before to you and, and to our

audience as well on previous episodes

25

that, did not have much of a clue what I

was doing when I started out as a coach.

26

I think many coaches were in that

position of having come from,

27

A professional background where you've

been an employee for a company to

28

then come to working for yourself,

either completely for yourself or

29

as a contractor or, some sort of

combination things look very different.

30

Things are pretty different

when, you are, self-employed,

31

when, are responsible for it all.

32

And it doesn't, well, maybe

now it does, but it didn't

33

come with a handbook back then.

34

You really did have to try and figure it

out for yourself and it was very hard.

35

It was hard to find the people who,

'cause there weren't so many coaches

36

around there, especially, there weren't

so many business coaches for sure.

37

harder to find the people who could

give you the professional guidance.

38

If you were lucky, you could probably find

a business mentor, and maybe if you're

39

well connected, that would all work out.

40

But, for, many of us, myself included,

it was, like trying to find a

41

light switch with a blindfold on,

42

Angie: Yeah.

43

And so that's the funny part is that

you are right, my point about how I

44

envisioned starting a business or having

a business, not even just starting.

45

What did I want it to look like?

46

I didn't have a clue.

47

I had nothing to compare it to.

48

my experience at that time was

vastly different than, today.

49

And I thought I knew, but

I mean, something you said.

50

There wasn't a handbook.

51

Now everybody in their, families

really are like, here's your booklet.

52

Here's your step by step process on

how to become a successful coach.

53

John: seven figures in

24 hours as a coach.

54

Angie: Oh my gosh.

55

I just saw something the other day from

a pretty well-known coach actually, that

56

was like, a hundred, there was an M in

there and I was like, are you kidding me?

57

and, learning to do

the process in 90 days.

58

And it's, here's the thing, I am a

believer that there is a roadmap, right?

59

And John and I literally, It wouldn't be

the dos, it would be the don'ts, right?

60

Just follow the don'ts if you can do that.

61

But the thing is that list continues

to grow and so for example, things I

62

didn't know, number one, I knew nothing.

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That's number one.

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I knew nothing.

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And I think anybody who starts

any business, of course you

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come into it green, right?

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Even if you wanna open up a barber

shop, there's things that you have to

68

do and until you do it, you don't know.

69

I was, lucky, I guess at the local

college there was a, they have this

70

a program for new business owners

and they had professionals that

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would help you set up an LLC or your

corporation, whatever you chose.

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But nobody would oh, well I

can't tell you how to do that.

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You need to go talk to your CPA.

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So I got went and talked to the CPA

and said, well, what should I do?

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Well, you should do this, but

you should also go talk to

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an attorney to draw up a con.

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And honestly.

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By that time I wanted to run away.

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my hair was on fire.

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I was like, this is, I

just wanna be a coach.

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Now you and I on the show, we've talked

about the business of coaching, right?

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what should you spend money on?

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What should you not spend money on?

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but I think interestingly that we

don't know what's really going to hit.

85

people and, what do I mean by that?

86

We don't know that Maybe My marketing

didn't work for it initially.

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Did yours?

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John: No.

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Gosh, John, I, blew tons of

money on stuff that did nothing.

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Angie: Yeah, so if you run out

of money, do you stop coaching?

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it's, it's really, I believe there always

needs to be a strategy behind it, If

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this doesn't work, and I don't mean going

into some different field if you're truly

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passionate, figure those things out.

94

But you and I have experienced mul,

we've talked about multiple companies

95

that we know of, that were great

companies that are now not solopreneurs

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what we've been talking about, but

even low to midsize companies that

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are air quote, closing their doors.

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Now we may never know exactly

why, but even when you are.

99

At cruising altitude, anything can happen.

100

Maybe it's that we need to be just as

strategic once we are off the ground.

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As we are in the beginning, as cautious

do we, we blow caution to the wind once

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we become something, and I don't mean

somebody where we're just this big name.

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I mean, we start to actually make

income on a consistent basis.

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And you said something earlier, which is

one of my favorite willy-nilly, right?

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It doesn't mean that we just all of a

sudden go all willy-nilly in our business.

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John: I think I said

loose goosey, but it's the

107

Angie: Oh, maybe you're right.

108

I, apologize.

109

The good thing everybody

else wasn't there to hear.

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John: Yeah.

111

Thank, thankfully there's no

recording of this to check, but,

112

but, here's, here's the thing.

113

I think it's, It's very easy to

get focused on the wrong things.

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I, think at least now there are,

clearer roadmaps for people, right?

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There are more people out there saying,

what does success look like for you?

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Which I, didn't consider that when

I first started, coaching business.

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I thought, all right, you start,

you build up clients and you.

118

Figure it out from there, it would've

been helpful to have some sense of, do

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I want a lifestyle business that's just

gonna be coaching, a big, have this

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many clients, keep it limited and have

freedom to do other stuff, or maybe just

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a bum around in the rest of my time.

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or do I want something that's

a bit more bit intense?

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Build it up, have other people coming in,

bring on more coaches, make it a, bigger

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Angie: Yeah.

125

John: I have no clue.

126

No clue.

127

And, even if I had wanted something

bigger, I, probably wouldn't have allowed

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myself to think about it very much,

simply because where do we even start?

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And as usually sort you go,

oh, go speak to this person.

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Then they say, go and

speak to that person.

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Before you know it, it is

like, oh my goodness enough.

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Why can't this just be

simple and straightforward?

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Because you've never really had to

deal with stuff before or face these

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challenges of everything takes so

much longer than you think it ever

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will, and that's very discouraging.

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Angie: Yeah, I think it can dissuade us.

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And I think something you said

is, important to recognize if

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you are at the beginning, right?

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If you're listening and you're like,

well, I'm a newer coach, or I'm

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thinking about transitioning from my,

my corporate lifestyle, my corporate

141

job into being a coach or a consultant.

142

You know, we have talked about you

need to understand your finances.

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That, very important and that probably

will dictate some people I know,

144

actually, I know two people that

actually took out business loans to

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really, even though they had money,

they didn't wanna use their own money.

146

And they went and that gave them some,

more flexibility in the beginning to

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maybe hire some people to do things

like, John and I have talked about

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you never, I am not a marketer.

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I should never be marketing myself.

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I am not great at it.

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I don't have any real interest in it.

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So, maybe you're able to, do that.

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But I think the beginning is, do you

have the vision that you actually want?

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A business with more

than being a solopreneur.

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Do you want this to be where

you have other coaches?

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And how many coaches are you anticipating?

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Do you want to run and manage a business?

158

Do you want an entire

payroll of, admin, sales?

159

marketing?

160

Do you want that?

161

John: Yeah, I, think as a,

as a self-employed coach.

162

I think there is an order to things that

generally has to be followed, you do.

163

You do pretty much have to

build up whatever one-to-one

164

practice you want first.

165

It's harder to start with group and

things that because you're not, you're

166

not really established yet, so you

build up your one-to-one practice.

167

But when that's doing well, then is the

time to start introducing group, maybe

168

even converting your, your one-to-one

stuff as much as you can into groups.

169

And then that's a time where you can

then, when that's going well, you can

170

start thinking about scaling beyond that.

171

What else do you want?

172

Which one?

173

How big do you want to go?

174

having that vision at the start

is fine, but you still have to

175

go through a level of process.

176

I'm sure there are, outliers who

are going and say, no, I, just went

177

straight into this and made this happen.

178

And great.

179

There they are outliers.

180

It's, it's few and far between.

181

They the exception rather than the rule.

182

For most of us, there is a natural

progression to building up your coaching

183

business, but I think it would still, I,

would still have benefited myself from

184

having a much clearer vision earlier

on about how I wanted it to look.

185

How much money did I want to be

making, how much would I need to be?

186

Charging my clients in order to be hitting

that for the kind of weather, who do I,

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who do I want to be nicheing towards?

188

Do they, can they afford to pay for me?

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All that stuff is like, you

don't necessarily think about it.

190

You go and do your coach training,

hopefully you've done your coach training.

191

and then you come out and think,

right, I'm ready to coach everybody.

192

And then you start to realize

that doesn't really work either.

193

it's too hit or miss.

194

You have to start figuring things out.

195

I do think it's, it's easier in some

ways now, apart from what you said,

196

there were just so many people out there.

197

The harder part now is finding

the people who are trustworthy or

198

reliable to help you get the sort

of results that you want to get.

199

But they are out there.

200

Angie: You know what's so funny?

201

I was, I, obviously, I, I spend a lot

of time on LinkedIn and I don't know,

202

I guess from old postings and stuff,

I see, oh, somebody posted this.

203

You might be interested.

204

There are just, this is amazing to me.

205

Companies, coaching companies that are

like, this is the greatest opportunity

206

for you to be autonomous and you must

be driven and all of these things.

207

And they're not even, some of them

aren't even offering a product.

208

They want you to come and work for

them, and they want you to go find

209

the clients and then they want you to

share the profits with them because

210

you're working under their umbrella.

211

If this is successful, if you

hear this and you are one of those

212

companies, I, wanna speak to you.

213

I would love to know how that's

actually working and I listen,

214

somebody might come at me for this

and probably I don't care, but really.

215

That concept is working.

216

'cause it's not just one I've

probably come across in the last

217

year between five and 10 of them,

where it's this is the greatest.

218

And they, have these

really, dazzling names.

219

I'm making this up and this,

this is a real company.

220

I apologize, but you first

coaching or something that.

221

And you're like, as a coach,

you're drawn to, oh, what are they

222

doing and what are they offering?

223

Right?

224

As a coach, you need to know what other

companies are offering to see where

225

you fit into the world, of coaching.

226

And when I hear this,

I'm like, I'm baffled.

227

This works.

228

I need to change

229

John: I'm just, gonna go and grab

my soapbox so I can stand on it

230

because I have something to say.

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Angie: Oh my, we love Johns.

232

We love this.

233

John: This won't be the first time that

I've said this to you, but it probably has

234

been a long time since this has come up.

235

But since there are coaching

companies down, undoubtedly some

236

coaches think, oh yeah, I'll go

and work for a coaching company.

237

That's fine.

238

This may be enough for you and this

will a lot of the pressure's off.

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Just show up.

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Do you coaching?

241

Collect your bill.

242

Bill for your money,

whatever, and get paid.

243

Great.

244

That's nice and simple, nice and easy.

245

Work from home, manage it

into your life, whatever.

246

So you might start looking

for, coaching companies other

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than some of the bigger ones.

248

And you will find those places.

249

You'll find some of those places on

LinkedIn, for example, among other places.

250

But as you say, as many of them are,

many of them are franchise operations.

251

They aren't they, they listed as jobs,

but their franchise operations, they're

252

not actually offering you a job.

253

They're offering you an opportunity

to buy into their franchise.

254

And as you say, you still have

to go out and buy, find the

255

clients and build up the business.

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That doesn't change.

257

They, may have, they may have plans

and structures for doing that.

258

Great.

259

If they do, it's not that far off

from being a multi-level marketing

260

company though, is it really?

261

and if,

262

If there's some sort of profit share

within that or some sort of pyramid

263

of, commissions that go up, that then

it is, it is essentially a form of

264

network marketing for coaching and

I, think that's, stay well away, stay

265

well away, and network marketing is not

something I would generally recommend

266

people to get into in the first

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Angie: I would say this for right.

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Here's the line of delineation for me.

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If you are not providing me the client's.

270

Saying, here's our concept.

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Here's our concept, our

process, our program.

272

Go do it.

273

And you're on the other side of the fence

and you're saying, here's our process.

274

Even now, go sell it and coach it

and show your entrepreneurial spirit.

275

You're right there.

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I have zero interest in building

up another business for somebody.

277

When I should be doing that for

myself, then why would I do?

278

But the question becomes this.

279

Why would I do that for you?

280

I don't understand.

281

Why would I?

282

Why?

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John: there are.

284

Angie: benefit?

285

John: Yeah, I must, peddle back a

little bit because there are some

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good coach franchises out there that

some people have done very well with.

287

The one that springs to

mind for me is action coach.

288

I dunno if you have that where you are,

but I think they are fairly international,

289

they're business coaching and you do

to some degree have, I guess, what

290

people have with things ICF or EMC

291

Angie: Yeah.

292

Mm-hmm.

293

John: of a little bit of

assurance of that You.

294

There's a quality control

that goes into that as well.

295

There's an association and a level of

trust in that brand that they've had to

296

establish over the years, but it is a

franchise nonetheless, and it's not a job.

297

So, I do get a little bit.

298

Annoyed when these, when some of

these places, and I know action

299

coach as far as know, don't do

this, but, there are others who do.

300

They advertise these things

as jobs and they are not jobs.

301

And I think that, how is that a good

start to any relationship when you've

302

essentially been cat, you've been

catfished before you even start.

303

Angie: Yeah.

304

But I think a lot of people are, I've

actually had, people I know that,

305

they listen to our show and I know

them, just from a professional space.

306

And I've had people say, Hey Angie,

you've been a coach for a while.

307

I was looking into X, Y, Z.

308

and it sounds really

comprehensive, this might be.

309

The business in a box that

I've been looking for.

310

So to your point, John, I do think if

it's something that you can take and

311

then apply within your business that

structures it and lays out some type

312

of a, growth plan or a, a map, I don't

think there's anything wrong with that

313

because it's more than what you and I had.

314

anything has to be better,

I think, than what we did.

315

But you're right.

316

There is that other side to it

where somebody's like, oh, just

317

go out and promote us and you'll

be yes, it, does, I guess, right?

318

I didn't think of it that way as

a multi-level marketing concept,

319

but, and that is different.

320

There was, there's differentiators between

that and owning a franchise, right?

321

When you own a franchise,

obviously you're partaking in,

322

and you're sharing your profits.

323

I mean, that you're doing that.

324

So.

325

That's fine if that's what you choose, but

how these other jobs, these posts, come

326

up and, try to make it sound like they're

the greatest thing since sliced bread.

327

I know that I, there's very, I'm thinking

of three different people that I think

328

are very intelligent, but they don't have

a lot of business savvy and that's okay.

329

Because they haven't never

owned a business asking me

330

about what do you think of this?

331

And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

332

run right is that's what I think.

333

Right?

334

What are you looking for?

335

And I do think that people are looking

for a business in the box concept.

336

I will buy this from you.

337

Please just give it to me.

338

Right?

339

How do I do this?

340

John: this was, this is part

of what makes multi-level

341

marketing companies attractive.

342

But look, I said there are some good

franchises out there that you would, you'd

343

probably do well to be associated with.

344

And you ha anything in life, you

do have to do a bit of homework

345

on this and, make sure it's legit.

346

but MLMs and the like.

347

The only people who ever really make

money with them are the people who

348

start them up, or people who really

are gifted salespeople before they

349

even go into it and they, properly

treat it a full-time business.

350

So this idea that you can buy into

a business and it's just, oh, just.

351

Do it in a do a few hours a day.

352

When you got do it between picking up

the kids and making their dinners I'm

353

sorry, you are never gonna have any

business with that, that these, these

354

sorts of promises of oh, it's so easy.

355

It, it is absolutely misleading.

356

And, and, same with any, it's

the same with any business.

357

Whether you do this by yourself or

whether you do a business in a box

358

thing, you still have to do all of the

same things to make that business grow.

359

Why not?

360

I, say, why not do that all

under your own power and steam?

361

Because unless you need the association

of somebody else's name, that's

362

for recognition and credibility.

363

Do it under your own power niche yourself.

364

Do all that stuff, get the

coaching and guidance that helps

365

coaches to do this sort of thing.

366

you will, you'll be doing all the

same things anyway, but it will be you

367

and and it will be how you want it.

368

You start off that way rather than getting

five, five years into, I thinking, I

369

think it's time I did my own thing.

370

Angie: And listen, and maybe that is part

of the growth for some people at times.

371

we all have different reasons for,

you and I met at a company, right?

372

That's where we met originally.

373

So it does happen that sometimes we're

oh, I wanna, segue this looks a great way.

374

Well what better way to learn

it than to actually do it?

375

And that's fine.

376

But it's also even going back to your,

what you said in the very beginning of.

377

there's, there's an order to things.

378

And I think part of that, and, the

reason, one of the best reasons

379

for having the order is, I mean,

some things happen simultaneously.

380

It's not step one, step two, it might

be two a, three B, whatever, but that's

381

also to not get ahead of yourself and.

382

It's to keep you in alignment.

383

It's to keep you focused on

what is the real priority.

384

And you and I have both

experienced companies over the

385

years that have grown too quickly.

386

I had a business actually, now that

I'm thinking about it out loud,

387

many, many, many years ago where.

388

I didn't, I had a very short term vision.

389

I, and this is me now

post this experience.

390

I didn't know that at the time.

391

And I had people offering

people that I knew very well.

392

Two people were Hey, let me help you

take your business to the next level.

393

And they were talking, Buying

vehicles and all of the, and

394

I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

395

No thank you.

396

I was not interested.

397

I couldn't even today tell you exactly

why, but it scared the bejesus out of me.

398

And And they both said to me,

well, what are you gonna do?

399

How are you gonna scale?

400

They were both already very

different businesses, by the

401

way, but business owners and.

402

John: Yeah.

403

Angie: Guess what?

404

I probably should have listened because

I didn't know how to scale and my

405

business grew to levels where, what

we talked about in our, our last set.

406

I could not personally do any more work.

407

I was already limited.

408

So it is Not that we

wanna focus on day one.

409

Well, geez, how am I

gonna scale my business?

410

that's not the the problem to start with.

411

But your vision could help if you do

envision yourself as having maybe, oh,

412

I'd love to have a handful of coaches

working for me, something manageable.

413

I'm not looking to be, for example, a Tony

Robbins who's got multitudes of businesses

414

and multitudes of companies and all of

the, he doesn't manage them anymore.

415

We're not talking that scale, but I mean,

if you are that person that actually

416

wants to have that big name and brand,

I'd love to hear that too, right?

417

How do you do that and how do you stay

418

John: Yeah.

419

Angie: and do not overextend yourself?

420

John: And there's everything

in between as well, right?

421

is important to have a sense of where

you want to go so that you can start

422

to look at what, to what happens next.

423

But one of the danger points that

I've seen over recent years, and maybe

424

a bit less so now, maybe a bit less

post COVID, but certainly before then

425

it was, it was happening a lot, is

these, these startups coming along and

426

running a a hundred miles an hour and,

427

Some of them were making it over the line.

428

Some of the vast majority of them weren't.

429

They, were crashing and

burning really quick.

430

For example, you're saying they

were trying to build, they were

431

trying to scale way too quickly

432

Angie: Yeah.

433

John: and and trying to,

trying to dominate the market.

434

From startup and that, that is tough.

435

And again, this is the, the outliers.

436

You see the success story.

437

We have a, we have a success bias in,

in every industry, but definitely in

438

coaching, the outliers are the ones

that you'll hear the stories of.

439

And you'll be inspired by the, I do that.

440

I had a sales sales position.

441

I had a sales position with, a

company selling, podcast growth.

442

podcast growth training.

443

They're still around.

444

but the guy who was running that, super

nice guy, he was trying, he tried to

445

scale too quickly and, part of the

reason for that was he was hanging around

446

with all these sort of, what you call

marketing bros or these Hormosi types.

447

they're all in the sort of, going,

going to church to pray to Alex

448

Hormosi and whoever at the weekend.

449

But it was very much that.

450

So there was all these group of

particular marketing bros, they'd often

451

go to the same events and they're all.

452

I guess they're all challenging each

other to some degree or feeling challenged

453

because some people are, are way ahead of

them, and some people are, they're not.

454

But they're looking at the

people who are, who are way ahead

455

of thinking, I wanna be that.

456

And it's like, well, let's.

457

Let's get in the race, get in

the race and race, race, race.

458

And in many cases, in this particular

case, it was too, too much, too soon.

459

And so it ended up with one particular

day, some years back of, early in January.

460

Getting on a group, a team call, and

pretty much all of us were let go 'cause

461

he didn't have any other option but to

scale the business, his option was to

462

scale the business back to the essentials,

which was him and one other person.

463

And his, he's since built

up but in a manageable, in a

464

sustainable way since then.

465

But that is a painful.

466

That is a painful lesson to learn.

467

I'm so glad that he's, he's survived that

and coming back strong and doing well.

468

'cause he's a really good guy.

469

But my goodness, how, how difficult that

was for him, how upsetting to have to let

470

go of, of a team of people who he cared

about and having to admit that it was

471

his mistakes that had caused all of this.

472

That's, that's often how it goes.

473

We don't, we don't always know how

to build or grow our businesses,

474

scale them in ways that are

manageable and sustainable.

475

We sometimes think we can just go, go fall

out, scale it up, and everything will just

476

fall into place, and, that rarely happens.

477

Angie: You know what's so funny?

478

Angie (2): So I had a conversation

with somebody last week, and this fits

479

in perfectly, I think, is that, even,

even success, even if your company is

480

growing consistently by percentages

every single year, that doesn't mean

481

that you do just because you can or

have the money that you should spend it.

482

we shouldn't go looking for ways to

spend money unless there's a strategy.

483

Of some behind it.

484

I mean, I actually sat in a meeting with

somebody who had tons of boxes behind

485

them and I was like, Hey, what's all that?

486

That's new?

487

And they're swag.

488

And I go, okay.

489

I get it.

490

I, get it.

491

I'm not saying that companies

shouldn't, produce some of that,

492

but I still think there needs

to be str strategy behind that.

493

Just because you have it doesn't

mean you should spend it.

494

The people I know that have the

most, or companies, I think that.

495

Retain the, the more of

their profits spend less.

496

And it's funny because their

employees might say, well, geez, I

497

don't know, understand why there's

a pay freeze right now, or a hiring

498

freeze if we're doing so well.

499

Well 'cause they wanna

maintain that, right?

500

They're not gonna be loosey

goosey willy-nilly spending money.

501

Why?

502

Unless it's, again, unless there's

a new, a new, a next level that

503

requires a, a push, or a stretch.

504

Just because you have it doesn't

mean you need to spend it seriously.

505

John: I think, I mean this has maybe

come up in coaching conversations for

506

us before, but I think there are very

few coaching companies who actually

507

pay coaches what they're worth, if,

any, at all, maybe a few places.

508

and, this is part of the reason why.

509

because you, you are ult, you are

ultimately, a cost, you're a cost to

510

the business once they bring you in.

511

but I think that is the wrong, I think

that is the wrong way to look at it.

512

and I do think if you actually invested

your money into your people, given them

513

salaries that make them want to stick

around, make it, make it a, a good place

514

to be that, know where they feel they

have a say and they, they feel they have

515

Maybe not com, maybe not autonomy.

516

You can't be necessarily do that, but

they, feel valued and feel part of it.

517

and, they feel respected for their

time with, with at least the, a payment

518

that shows that even if you can't give

them what they might be earning by

519

themselves, 'cause obviously there's a

lot of cost involved, then they're gonna

520

want to stay around, stay with that.

521

They're gonna wanna stick around for it.

522

But there are so few

places that actually do it.

523

And, this is why, one of the reasons

why many, many coaches do really

524

want to just work for themselves.

525

So even in BetterUp, even if

you're sort of in the top levels of

526

BetterUp, you can do well, but you

can still do better by yourself.

527

you, but you have to go

and find the clients.

528

So then you've got all the costs

and costs and effort of all of that.

529

Angie (2): All of the

530

John: more money.

531

Angie (2): Yeah.

532

John: You

533

Angie (2): which you and

I were talking about.

534

John: But I, but I don't, I don't

under, yeah, I don't understand that.

535

I don't think people

care so much about merch.

536

By all means, have some of it, if,

it's, a reasonable cost in your business

537

and, nice to have some, nice to have

some things that you can give away.

538

But keep it on, keep it on the,

not, not you want cheap and

539

tacky, but keep it affordable.

540

Keep it on something manageable.

541

But you're right, I think people

just sort of say, oh, there's all

542

this money and, let's do this.

543

But they're not putting it into the right.

544

Into the right places, And think

the, there is, not, not, this isn't

545

really a conversation for us, but

there is definitely an issue around

546

the disparity between, CEOs and

many companies now earning a hundred

547

times more than the people at the

lowest levels, of the business.

548

And it's like, well, that's

where all the money is going.

549

And then there's layoffs and stuff.

550

And as you say, that's to keep

the people at the top comfy, not.

551

Not the people who are sort of doing

the, doing the essential work of the

552

day-to-day running of the business.

553

Different conversation.

554

But these, these are, these are to

some degree, still relevant in, in your

555

coaching model, especially if you are

looking to build up a business that.

556

It's like, yeah, have a business that,

bring people in, but respect them.

557

Make it worth a while.

558

Create an environment that you would

want to work in and, if you want it to

559

last, make sure they want to stay, but.

560

Yeah, you still have to, you

still have to watch the money.

561

You still have to make sure that

you're being sensible with, with what

562

you're bringing into your business.

563

Angie (2): Yeah, time, money.

564

What do you have to, how much do

you have to bring to the table?

565

It's not just how much money do you have,

it's all other resources, including,

566

and especially just as important,

maybe not especially, but your time.

567

How much time do you have to be the

coach and the advisor and now the things,

568

and, that just comes down to maybe

creating that roadmap for yourself.

569

Creating a real.

570

Business plan, which if you have

no business experience, John and I

571

have said go find somebody who does

and have that conversation for sure.

572

John: I mean, the conversation I was

having with a coaching friend this

573

just this morning was about, actually

tax efficiency with the business,

574

the cost of, being self-employed,

which we had a bit of a chat about

575

as well, just keeps going up and up.

576

there's a, a cost attached to that.

577

At some point I'm gonna have to start

looking into setting up, a business

578

to save myself money, but I have to

look at the best way of doing that and

579

setting up a, a limited company, and

making, and making that shift potentially

580

because it's, it's gonna be so much.

581

Better for me financially to do that

and, not, not necessarily that I want

582

to build up to having this huge business

with those people working for me.

583

I don't think that's really

in the, in the schema for me.

584

But, but I do not want to be paying, I

do not want to be getting full, fully

585

whacked for tax when I don't need to.

586

When there are.

587

Mechanisms and methodologies that

will allow me to, I'll still pay my

588

tax because I think it's important

to do that, but, I don't need to be

589

getting hammered for it, and that

that's the alternative, which is not

590

Angie (2): Well, I think that's why yes,

you need to go talk to, somebody who

591

has the expertise in, in those spaces.

592

And, even though I felt I was going

on a wild goose chase way back in

593

the beginning, I realize now how,

how valuable that actually was

594

to, to go and do it the right way,

gain the information, et cetera.

595

John: I, did business studies at school.

596

There is, there's no way that being able

to do a profit and loss chart actually

597

prepared me for having a business.

598

So, and, I don't think,

I don't, I don't think,

599

Angie (2): for you.

600

John: I don't really think, I don't

really think MBAs as much as they

601

can be valued, I don't think they

necessarily give people everything.

602

I think that people can be very

successful without them, so it shouldn't

603

be the thing that you have to look at.

604

but, but getting some mentorship

and getting the right guidance.

605

I think is one of the critical

elements for having a successful

606

business that will last the distance

as well, and, and encourage you to

607

do what we, what we will do, what

exactly what we do in this situation.

608

Get the advice that you need from people

who know what they're talking about

609

Angie (2): agreed.

610

Starting with John and Angie.

611

John: and look who knows what

we'll be talking about next time,

612

that if this has been valuable

to you, make sure you subscribe.

613

Then we'll see you again soon.