If you are interested in entrepreneurship, travel, or you are simply a man who sets the bar high for himself, this episode is for you…why? Because my guest in this episode is Peter Collins, one of the most interesting people I’ve had the privilege of getting to know.

Peter is a serial entrepreneur, former British army commando, and professional photographer. He has been a high-level athlete - competing in marathons, ultra-marathons, and nearly made the Olympics in ski racing - and he has lived and travelled all over the world. Peter’s story is one of failure, never giving up, and always finding ways to pair creativity with business opportunities. I hope you enjoy and are inspired by the conversation.

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Find Peter Collins Here:

His Current Business: Ship To Shore Designs: https://shiptoshoredesigns.co.uk/

His Photography Instagram: Peter Collins Photo: https://www.instagram.com/petercollinsphoto/

Life is chapters, you know, And I look back now at my 20s and 30s and my 40s and 50s, and I'm not the same person. And I change and evolve over time. I've run businesses that haven't worked. I've tried to be commissioned into the military and that didn't work.

I've had a failed marriage and, you know, all of these things, they are failures, but I'm not a failure. Dad always said, why can't Peter just do normal things? Why can't he just join the army? He has to go and join the commandos.

He can't just run, he has to do marathons and he can't just ski. He's got to try and go to the Olympics. And I think that's just setting the bar high for yourself.

You are listening to the Akkeri Podcast, a show about men and masculinities, the challenges that modern men face, and how to chart a better way forward. I'm your host, Matt Howlett, mental health coach and founder of the Akkeri.

If you are interested in entrepreneurship, travel, or you are simply a man who sets the bar high for himself, this episode is for you. Why? Because my guest in this episode is Peter Collins, one of the most interesting people that I've had the privilege of getting to know.

Peter is a serial entrepreneur, former British army commando and professional photographer. He has been a high level athlete competing in marathons, ultramarathons, and nearly making the Olympics in ski racing.

And he has lived and traveled all over the world. Peter's story is one of failure, never giving up, and always finding ways to pair creativity with business opportunities.

I hope you enjoy and are inspired by this conversation. Peter Collins.

Matt Howlett. Hello, mate. How are you?

I'm good, man. How are you?

I'm good, thank you. Yeah, yeah. It's been a while.

Probably.

Wild.

That's a long time. Lots of, lots of things have happened, eh?

Yeah, lots of things have happened in, I suppose, just over six years. You're in Portsmouth.

I am.

So that's where you're living and where the business is happening.

That's right, yeah.

Tell me a little bit about the business. Like what I'd love to do is pick different parts of your story because, honestly, you probably don't see yourself this way.

And based on your reaction to my request to join the podcast, I'm pretty certain that I've got this right. You don't see yourself as an overly interesting person, ideal Podcast guest. But you've done a lot of different things.

I have, and thank you for that. Yeah. I think life's taken me in lots of different directions and I've gone with the flow on that. Yeah.

I look back sometimes and I talk to other people and I think, yeah, there's a lot happened in my life. You know, I've lived in lots of places, I've done lots of different things. I've been successful, I've been a failure. Yeah. So, yeah, I.

I suppose I don't know if I consider my. Myself successful. In many ways, I'm very hard on myself. I think that's the. That's the thing.

I am as well.

Yeah. Yeah. And I. So I. I sort of look at the failures or the things that didn't work out rather than the successes.

Yeah. I think that's a typical characteristic of. Of a man. I haven't met too many men that aren't somewhat hard on themselves.

And the more I get to know some of them, they're about as hard on themselves as I am. It sounds like you are as well. I want to jump back because there's a lot about you that I don't know.

So I know bits and pieces about your life, but I don't know the full story. And I think there's several parts, several chapters of your story that are going to be super interesting to other people.

I want to hear more about the military experience. Right, so the website Ship to Shore, what is it, Peter? Exactly?

The website shiptoshore designs.co.uk.co.uk okay, so Shiptoshore.

Designs.Co.Uk is where I saw the actual title. Commando. That sounds super cool. That sounds like Rambo. Right. So you're going to have to. That's. That's not a term I've heard before.

That's not a designation we have.

No. And I think it probably sounds a lot more romantic or something than it. Than it really is.

Sure.

I mean, you know, rewind back to school.

17, 18 years old, I was going through basically high school here in the uk, studying English, geography and geology, A level and applying to university and got accepted to go to university to read geography and, and then something I. I did read really poorly in my exams.

Okay.

And I failed all of my A levels, which, which you need to do to get into. In. Into university. In the uk.

Okay.

And I, I effectively blew them all. I'm not good at exams, I'm not good at memorization, you know, and so that was a big blow. And so I ended up going into the military.

My father had been a Grenadier Guards officer. He joined up at 16, worked his way all the way up through the ranks.

I had an older brother who had also gone into the military and, and I was in the part time Territorial army in London during my A levels. And so I, I joined the army and I, I applied for a commission. I, and I actually applied to all, eventually all five services.

I applied well, I applied to the army twice. I applied to the Royal Marines, applied to the Navy and ultimately to the raf and I got rejected as an officer on all of those occasions.

At different times I suppose I was summed up best by my, my army.

I went to the regular commissions board to become an army officer and I was, my report said I had all the right qualities but I failed to display them and I, I think that should be written on my gravestone sometimes.

So I didn't get commission but I went in as an aircraft technician which was what my brother did, servicing helic and I did a one year, I did, I did all the basic military training and then I did a one year course in aircraft engineering and, and I quickly discovered that I was good at it but it, it wasn't something that really motivated me. You know, a lot, A lot of guys, young, young guys grow up with motorbikes maybe and tinkering with cars and doing.

And I never did and I wasn't interested in that. And so I ended up as an aircraft technician almost by default.

It was the most best paid job in the army and the highest sort of qualification that you could get.

And so my first posting out of training was to the Royal Marines down in Plymouth and they had a brigade air squadron, the Commando Brigade Air Squadron. So I got posted to them and as part of that I had to go and do the all arms commando course which was an eight week course.

And at the end of that I got my Green Beret.

So, and so the, effectively there's the Royal Marines but then they have attached personnel who do a lot more specialized trades and they are designated as either Army Commandos or Navy Commandos.

Okay.

So I became an army commando and have my green Beret, but as part of our role was to work in Norway and we defending that northern flank. And so we spent time in the summer on exercise and then we did two, we did a winter Deployment every year, three month deployment to the Arctic.

And that was where I suppose I really found my, my calling, which was being in the, you know, I remember going to, you know, I grew up in southern England mainly, and I went to Norway. I got off the back of a Hercules in, you know, central Norway in the middle of the winter, late December, and it was minus 26.

And I'd never experienced anything like that.

Wow.

And I thought, oh, I'm here for three months. This is going to be absolutely brutal.

Yeah.

And of course, as you know, and living in Canada, you know, it can change. So I effectively, I ended up doing a couple of tours in, in, in Norway in the winter.

And that took me into, into skiing and then into climbing and it just developed a whole new, a whole new world for me that I really didn't even know existed. So the Green beret, the commando bit.

Yes, I was a soldier, but most of the time I, I was either, you know, maintaining aircraft or, or eventually skiing and I became a ski racer. I became a cross country skier by athlete.

Right.

Posted to Germany and spent the next five years effectively chasing the dream of being a competitive cross country ski racer.

So how did that transition happen then? Did you leave the army or was that part of that was part of.

Of still in the military. I was still being, I was still being paid and wearing uniform, but I became successful as a, as a cross country ski racer.

Right.

And that opened some doors for me and allowed me to go away and train and to race, you know, competitively on the circuit in, in Central Europe, which was a lovely lifestyle, of course, but it's hard. I mean, you know, you know, cross country skiing is, is an incredibly, you know, tough sport, you know, mentally and physically.

Yeah, I was very fortunate because of course I then was being paid to do that, which certainly in Canada it's, you know, really hard on a lot of athletes, a lot of. So, you know, ultimately I was able to, to support athletes later when I, when I lived in Canada. Right.

So did you still have military responsibilities or were you primarily an athlete?

No, I did. I.

Yeah, I spent probably four or five months a year away and then, or training and then the rest of the time actually, yeah, being, being a serving soldier, wearing uniform, doing my job. Right, yeah.

Again in Norway or elsewhere?

In Germany I was in Northern Ireland. I did a tour in Northern Ireland during the, the early 80s and so, yeah, yeah, I was a serving soldier as well.

What's the wildest, best memory from military time? Is there. One story that sticks out comes to mind.

Oh, gosh. Getting my Green beret was, was a very. That was a, that was, I mean, because I had to do it twice. I did the course.

The first time I got injured, I got a stress fracture in my leg and I had to come on the course after about five weeks and that was a pretty low. And then I went back after I recovered and I, and I did it again.

And the combination of the, of your Green Beret training is you do the 30 miler across Dartmoor in under eight hours. And Dartmoor is a very rugged terrain. You do as a small group and you're wearing about 30 pounder kit, carrying a rifle.

You've got to navigate your way and it's, you know, and it is the culmination of every Royal Marine or every commando's training. And at the end of that you get your Green beret. And that was a very special moment, I suppose, getting that.

What do you think the biggest challenge was from all of that? Was it primarily a mental challenge? Because obviously there's a lot of physical exhaustion. Especially you mentioned that 30 miler.

Like that was a hike with a rucksack gun, whatever.

Yeah, I mean, yes, there's a lot of mental toughness that you have to, have to be able to keep going, to be able to face those challenges every day and just to get up and keep going and your body's, you know, basically starting to slowly fall apart and, and everything else. So it is hard.

And I think, I think what I learned and, and I heard people talking very early on in the course is that they, they talked about the 30 miler, which is the last thing you do after, you know, sort of eight weeks. And I just took it a day at a time. It's just like, I'm going to get up today and this is what's happening.

Forget yesterday and, you know, just take each step as you go. And I think that was really important not, not being, oh, we've got to do the 30 mile at the end of this. And that's so hard.

It's just like that's just another progression. We'll deal with that, you know, when I get there. Yeah.

And I think that's all of those qualities that I learned, you know, in getting my Green Beret and going through that training. They set me up, you know, in life to overcome, you know, the, the many hurdles that life throws at us, you know, as we know.

Yeah. Have you recommended that same, I suppose, first step after school to others, other men, specifically?

I don't know if I Have, I think, having lived in Canada for, you know, 20 odd years and obviously growing up in the U.K. i mean, and I was born what, 14, 15 years after the end of the Second World War.

And of course everyone here, every male that you knew here who was an adult had been through the war, you know, in either, you know, in some capacity or, you know, uncles and grandfathers and everything else.

And I think there's a, there's a big tradition in the military in, in the UK and it's not unusual, but I found that when I moved to Canada, it was almost like you didn't talk about the fact that you'd been in the military. There was almost like this sort of, I think it was a sort of from the States, Vietnam sort of fallout almost. I don't know.

But I just found that I never met people who were, who've been in the military or only, you know, one or two people, whoever sort of had admitted to haven't been in the military. Whereas here it's almost like it's not a badge of honor, but it's almost like, yeah, I was in. Who were you with?

And I meet people all the time here who are ex servicemen.

Right.

And is it suggested or talked about, you think, because people expect that service to country or do they see the value in what you just mentioned preparing you for life? Is it a mix of both or more of one or the other?

I think it's a mixture of both, yeah. I think, yeah, I'm not sure.

I think people can look at military in two ways and either you, you know, you've sort of had your brain taken out and you've been sort of forced into this system of, you know, of compliance.

And I, and I, I served with some of the most, you know, wonderful young guys who are intelligent and thoughtful and you know, and, and they, you know, not automatons or not sort of, you know, gung ho guys in any way. And I think that that's, you know, one of the things that I certainly took from the military.

And yeah, I mean, it's tough because ultimately there's a possibility that you're going to have to go to war. You're going to go and have to show in some sort of combat zone.

And, and you know, we talk about the times we live in now, but the situation around the world, you know, makes that more of a possibility.

And, but I think I probably came out of the military and certainly as I've grown up and certainly became a father with a more pacifist attitude to Life. But I believe in the military and I believe in the traditions and the history of the military and I'm proud that I served in that capacity.

But of course, war is a terrible thing and I know. And if there's a peacekeeping role for the military or some other, you know, way of channeling that young energy to, to do that, I don't know.

Right. Coming out of the military, was that basically because of the athleticism, because of the skiing?

Like, did that transition just kind of happen naturally you became more of an athlete? Did you serve your time and just finish and keep skiing?

Well, no, I mean, to be honest, I'd signed up for, on a six year contract within the military.

Okay.

With. Well, you sign up with an option to leave after six years. You signed up for 22 years, but you with a. And you have to go 12 months notice.

And I actually end up staying in and I did almost nine years.

But to stay in, I had to, I would have had to stay into the aircraft world and I would have had to go and done upgrading courses and done all those sorts of things on the technical side for me to continue in the role that I was in. And I just got to that top, you know, time in my Life.

I was 27 and I thought, this is not what I want to do for the next, you know, X number of years. And there's a whole world out there. There's a big world out there and I, you know, there are other opportunities. But it was tough.

I mean, I honestly, when I left, you know, because I was a single soldier, I was living in, on the camp, all my friends, you know, my job or, you know, my running partners, you know, my whole sort of world was built around the military.

And when I left, I remember going up to Yorkshire to do a resettlement training, you know, course for a month, which the army shall prepare you for civilian life in terms of writing resumes and, you know, giving you other skills.

And I remember the first day I went up there and I drove up onto the Yorkshire moors and I sat in my car and I cried, you know, because it was a sort of shock and sort of what have I done? I sort of turned my back on everything that I'd known. And I grew up in the military, I grew up in a military family.

And so I felt that I'd closed that door and it, and, and it was tough.

But then, you know, I then realized because there are other opportunities there and had to take them and I had to, to bridge that gap into being a civilian and Finding new, new ways to, you know, make, make a living.

Right. So what did come next after that? Because I guess I'm, I'm blending the skiing and the military into one.

I, I always thought that there was a period where you had left the military and you continued as a coach in some capacity. But I did what was next.

I did well, effectively. I, I mean, I left in 87, in, in the spring of 87, and I was hoping to go well, I continued skiing, I continued to train at, on my own.

I lived with my parents for, went back to live at home for about six months and I continued to train. And in the beginning of 88 was the Olympics in Canmore.

Right.

And that was a sort of goal for me to try and make that British team.

And so I trained on my own and I traveled, you know, and lived in Germany and Switzerland and chased the snow and I chased a dream and I went to what was effectively the British Championships and. But I broke my arm in, in the November, I fell roller skiing and, and actually broke a bone in my, in my wrist. And that set me back.

But ultimately I wasn't good enough. I mean, and you have to accept that sometimes, you know, just wasn't at that world class level to go and compete at the very, very highest level.

How did you figure. That's an important lesson, Peter. How did you figure that out?

Because I think a lot of us men, we hit failure and we go probably into anger or depression or like cynicism, something related, something in that category, we'll say. But we don't necessarily realize that, oh, maybe that thing is just not for me. I have other interests, you know what I mean?

I know as a younger man, I definitely got focused on one thing or two things, and if I found that I wasn't good at them, that generally led to frustration and beating myself up like we talked about earlier, and being hard on yourself and thinking that your potential is lower than what you had actually hoped that it was. But how did you figure that out? Because that, that's the mindset that you want to have where that's just. This is just not for me.

You know, I'm not suited for this. But there's something else.

It's a good question. And I don't know if I ever, ever answered that myself, how, how I've done it, but I've done it a lot in my life.

And I think it's just a case of life moves on, you know, and life is chapters and, you know, and I look back now at my 20s and 30s and my 40s and 50s and I'm not the same person and I, I, you know, I've changed and evolved over time and I think that that's an important to recognize that things don't always work out, you know.

And I think when we're younger, when we're in our teens, we just go through life and it's sort of successful, you know, I think failure, my A levels and not going to university was probably a big lesson in that.

Right?

Yeah.

I was devastated when I remember getting my results and lying on my, you know, in my house, you know, in, in London in my parents house and just being, you know, kind of distraught because I was on that pathway and that was a pathway everyone put you on, you know, go to university, get a good career, you know, and, and, and that didn't work and so I suppose I had to pivot at that point, you know. And, and, and so yeah, it's something like not making it as a ski racer. It wasn't the end of the world.

It's like I've had a good kick of the can, I've done well with that. What, where can I go now? What do I do now?

And I, you know, if you look at something like cross country ski racing, you know, I was watching the, the biathlon world championships earlier on today, there's only ever one winner, there's three people are going to come away with medals and everyone else is either going to be frustrated or angry or, or just go well you know, I've done this, I've raced at this level, I've enjoyed it and it's time to, to move on.

Yeah.

I remember thinking what do I, what do I like what, what, you know, what do I really want to do?

Right.

And I was totally into photography and I've always had a camera in my hand from, you know, from.

I think I boug proper camera when I was about 18 or 19 and old Canon A1 and I remember shooting that and I just, I love sport and I love photography and I set up a business called Sporting Images doing, going around doing sports, shooting team photos and leisure centers and sports centers and all sorts of things and basically just learning to hustle, learning to try and build a business and I did that and it started to build those skills and build some clients and do all of those things and it's hard, it's hard, it's hard being a startup and I did that for about a year and then I saw a job advertisement came up for a new Cross country ski center opening in Scotland in the northeast of Scotland. And I looked at that and I thought that just brings together everything that I've done, right.

The qualifications that I got, the experience that I got, you know, so I had the management experience or the entrepreneurial experience. I had the, I had the, the, you know, the skills to teach skiing, to develop programs.

Yeah.

And I applied for that and I, and I, and I went up to Northeast Scotland, but it shortlisted and went for an interview and it was a 10 hour train journey to get there. And I remember coming back on the train and after the interview and I thought, I'm going to get this job, I know it. And it's going to change my life.

And, and I felt I'd gone to the end of the world, you know, because it was right up in the northeast of Scotland.

Yeah.

And I did get it and, and I ended up moving up there, literally, you know, developing everything from the building to the tracks to everything and a program. But then girlfriend at the time, she happened to get a job down in southeast England.

So we were having this sort of remote relationship which ultimately failed. So it did change my life, you know.

Right.

And so I, and I ended up building this program and building the ski center and, and I loved it. I loved the, the whole challenge of that. And I met a Canadian who had two young children, separated and we ended up becoming a couple.

She moved in one day with two kids and a cat, I think. And we ultimately got married and had a daughter and lived there in Scotland for about nine years.

And the step kids were young and my daughter, and they all grew up in that environment and it was such a lovely lifestyle. It was very poorly paid, but it was just the job that I wanted to do. And we did that and I did that up until my late 30s.

Yeah.

And then there was some changes on the horizon in terms of the overall funding of the center because it was, it was a local authority that, that ultimately put the money into everything. And, but I was a very independent manager, you know, manager.

I worked with the management committee and I could see that change was coming and it was getting very difficult and quite frustrating. And so I applied for my Canadian citizenship because. Just to have it.

And, and yeah, eventually I ended up just having to quit for mental health reasons really, because I, it was getting so hard. I remember just sitting in bed one night and just, and I said to my then wife, I said, I can't do this anymore.

I can't keep fighting, you know, on this level with the, with the changes that are happening and the demands and everything, it's just not fun anymore. And so she said, we'll leave. And I remember I got up the following morning and I resigned.

I wrote a letter and I resigned, you know, and I walked away.

Yeah.

And that was tough. Again, it was a very tough decision to do that.

And then my Canadian papers came through and I thought it was going to be an open ended sort of, you know, piece of paper you could move when you wanted, but it had a time limit on it.

Okay.

And I think that was in the sort of spring, probably March, April time I got that.

And I didn't have a job and I wasn't prepared to move at that time because it was a huge, obviously wrench, you know, to move to Canada, to have no, you know, to have nothing there and not know anyone. So I ultimately we sort of batted it backwards and forwards. We should stay, we should go.

And then we decided that if we were going to go, it had to be during the school holidays because that was the best time for the kids to do that.

Right.

And I think we moved in pretty quick time. I think within about five weeks we made the decision to go and we got rid of our. We were renting a house. We got rid of everything and we moved.

Yeah.

Moved to BC where I, you know, where my ex wife's family were from Vancouver.

Okay. I thought it was Nelson that you went to first.

We ended up in Nelson. Well, we ended up in that area. Ended up in New Denver, which is right in the Kootenais.

Yeah, I remember doing a bike trip through their motorcycle and I had to go to. Specifically to New. New Denver. To see where you had spent your time.

Right. Yeah, yeah. So we, we actually ended up doing a road trip. We bought a minivan and we drove all around the province and going.

And my ex was a teacher and so we were looking at where she could possibly get some work. And so we drove all around the province just looking at communities.

Yeah.

And we ended up in the Cusp and New Denver and we all loved it because mountains, lakes, lovely lifestyle. And I moved there and just on a whim, just said, well, you know, let's plant our flag here.

Yeah.

And we did.

I want to hear more about this and the Cusp. There's a ferry in the Cusp. Yes, right. I, I remember that. I went through that and I did take that ferry. And that was on your recommendation.

I love that little area. Uh, Nelson was, was a cute spot. I was only there for about a day. Um, Yeah, a little less than a day.

But I feel the need to point out to you and yet again remind you, sir, that you are.

You have a very interesting story, and not simply interesting, but there have been important points where I probably even should have stopped you earlier and pointed out things that you've said that are, I don't know, for lack of a better word, profound. Like you. There was a moment there where you're talking about you woke up and, you know, had a chat with your ex.

You realized that this wasn't right for you anymore and you had to make a change, but you didn't have options. You know what I mean? You didn't know what was going to be next.

You're talking about moving to Canada, throwing a big wrench in the plans, and not coming here without anything like that is hard.

And I think a lot of us, I know I'll speak for myself as a younger man in my 20s, like when I decided to leave Newfoundland, you know, I was, I was married at, at the time and I was in a position that I haven't been in since. Geez, I don't know, it's been over 10 years now since, because I was.

Used to be a pastor, you know, and I, so I, I left all of that behind and I went to Vancouver, similar to you, and I went to study, just media. It was something I was interested in. I had no idea where that was going to lead. I have never been to Vancouver before, never even visited.

But like that, that type of thing is very hard. What was going through your mind? What were you feeling at that period of time? Was it mostly excitement? Was there fear wrapped up in all of that?

What was that like?

I'm sure that it was a very mixed set of emotions. I mean, Annie, my daughter, was not even 3 years old and I had, you know, two stepchildren, who, about 8 and 12, I suppose.

And so, yeah, there's, there's a lot of responsibility there, obviously, to provide, you know, but there's also, I suppose, a lot of excitement. I've been to Canada a couple of times.

We've been over on extended family holidays and, and so I sort of, you know, I've been to Vancouver, I, I've been to Canmore actually, and I, you know, skied in a few places and we had, you know, family there in terms of, you know, my, my ex's family and I knew, I knew them. But yeah, I mean, it was tough in, in some ways it was tough because I had family here in the uk. My, my My.

My dad had had a massive heart attack at 54 and, and a triple bypass and he was in his. How old would he be then? He would have been about 60 at the time. And, and I remember, you know, saying goodbye to him and I never saw him again.

And I sort of.

We had that sort of unwritten contact when looked him in the eye, when I said goodbye to him, that this could be, you know, and it's not like, you know, back in the olden days where you got on a wooden sailship and you knew you were never going to see the old country again.

Right.

Because it, But, I don't know, it was almost like it was a big. A big thing to leave and to leave what, you know, in terms of culture, in terms of family, you know, your heritage, all those sorts of things.

And I've talked to lots of people who, in Canada who, who have done the same.

They will say the hardest, you know, as a, you know, thing, as an immigrant, is to be the first generation, obviously, because you still have those ties, you still have all of those connections. And, you know, I used to follow the news from the UK and, and, and I went through this period for years, looking back to the UK and, and sort of.

And then not really being a part of the culture of Canada.

And, and that, and that changed over a couple of years where I felt in this no Man's Land, I didn't know what was going on back in the uk, I didn't know what was going on in Canada. And I'm talking culturally, politically, you know, everything.

Yeah.

And so I ended up in this sort of, say, this no Man's Land.

And then gradually that changed and then I would come back on to the UK on holiday and I didn't understand what was going on back here because people made references to stuff and I have no idea what he's talking about. And now, you know, and after moving back up to 21 years, it was a shock. It was like coming back to UK was almost like coming back to a foreign land.

Oddly enough, I, I get that I've moved around a fair bit in the last. At least 10 to 15 years. And now I'm back to where I was raised. Right. I mean, I'm in the capital city now of St.

John's I was born in Mount Pearl, which is the next city over, but they run right into each other, like it's not much of a difference. Now, St. John's folks would say that, oh, you're from the Pearl, right? There is a bit of A difference.

And yeah, my wife even makes jokes about me being from the Pearl, but. But yeah, I get that to an extent. Having lived primarily in bc, you know, a year abroad, a couple of other places, I studied in Alberta.

But coming back here, it was, it was not, not as much of a shock because I had spent about 20 years here prior. But it was odd because there's several things here that are very different than say bc.

Obviously very different than Asia, but the west coast and the east coast, culturally, politically, even just infrastructure is very different and often challenging in the weather. Well, I mean, the weather is definitely a challenge. I don't think I'm a fan of winter anymore, so I don't share that with you.

You never were. I remember being in Camore.

Okay, come on, what, what did I say in Canberra it was cold, but like there was no wind in Canmore. It's windy as hell here.

Is that. Yeah.

What do you remember? Come on now. Was I complaining?

I remember because obviously you are, you're a biker and it's a challenge being a, you know, I think being a biker obviously in the mountains.

Yeah, that, that broke my heart having to store that, that bike.

Yeah.

For so long and I, I got it out as early as I did. There was still ice on the road in Canmore. It was still like, you know, hovering zero in the mornings and. But yeah, but yeah.

So tell me more about that period of your, of your life. So you're, you were settled in B.C. for a period of time, obviously you went through some changes in life.

But then how did you get to, how did you get to Canmore? How did you get to the co working space and starting that next startup and even like Buff to an extent.

Yeah, well, Buff came about because, I mean, I moved in, moved from Scotland to Canada in the summer of 99 and that year my ex and I were racing in the Discovery Channel Eco Challenge, big, you know, obviously multi day adventure race. And so that was our focus.

And it was brilliant living in the Kootenays because we had mountains, we had water with all the terrain was so similar to where we ended up racing in December in Argentina. And so that was our focus. But of course we weren't really earning any money.

We were just living on credit cards and save little bits of savings we had. And, and during that race down in Argentina, we got to know the Spanish team and they were sponsored by Buff.

And you know, and I'd seen Buff in the past and I tried to buy them before we raced in Canada. And so Very long story.

Right.

That was basically it, you know, and I got a, you know, email back or, you know, something saying yes. And they sent me some, a few samples and some catalogs and I knew absolutely nothing about distribution, about anything.

And that's great. That's great.

And I, I had had a conversation with, with a, with a guy who I'd met in the next village to where we lived. And he was a biker and he, I showed him Buff and he's like, these are brilliant for motorbikes, you know.

Love.

And he lent me, yeah, yeah, he lent me $3,000 on a 10% return to be paid back whenever he needed. You know, he wanted the money back. That allowed me to buy 300 buffs. Yeah. $10 a piece.

So I bought on a whim, 300 different colors and I piled them in little piles in my basement or floor and I, and I built a website. And, and I couldn't afford, you know, back then there was no such thing as squarespace.

Wow.

I built my website.

And I should never admit to this, but I copied the HTML code from Martha Stewart's website and I changed it and I learned HTML coding just so that I could. And then the trial run out and then I was on my own. I couldn't afford however much it was. It was thousands of dollars back in that day.

I'm never gonna forget that. Peter, that's amazing. You copied Martha Stewart's HTML code. That's great.

Yeah. And, and I just, you know, and I, I taught myself, I taught myself code enough.

Yeah.

And I built a website and I learned how to do all the backend and all of the payment processing. And back then there was no security, you know, I remember, you know, I would literally download the orders every day on the online store.

And I got all that, I got all the credit card information, printed it all out, all the addresses.

I then had to go into QuickBooks, open up QuickBooks, type in all, type in all of that information, each and every one, you know, process the order, pick it packet.

And that took so much time and Then I eventually, after probably a year or two years, somebody wrote a program that would transfer that information in all those orders in straight into QuickBooks and create all of the sales receipts or invoices. And that was like game changer to me because that saved me literally hours every day. But I just, I built that up.

I mean, and the website just took off at the time.

And I was going to all shows, I was going, I was on the road, I was going to the outdoor adventure shows, the motorbike shows, you know, three or four days at a time, going to Vancouver, Toronto, Edmonton, you know, Vancouver, and just rotating around those shows and just dragging, you know, all the product and setting up and standing there all day just saying, do you know what a buff is? And just, you know, hustling and it.

And of course it, you know, it took a lot of effort, a lot of energy, a huge amount of time, and I built that up and I just kept reinvesting every time we made some money. The guy who loaned me the money in the first place, he wanted his money back again.

So I paid him off and I just, just slowly, slowly, you know, sort of. And I find that every 12 months or 18 months, you get to a plateau where you go, I either just need to grow or it's going to stagnate.

And I kept just sort of having to almost like reinvent the business. And I did that from, well, for probably 10 years. And I was running a million dollar turnover from my basement in, in the Kootenays.

I remember my, I remember my accountant at the time because he said to me, you run a six. I did it my taxes at the end of the year. And he said, you, you know, you run a successful business.

And I said, mark, if I'm successful, why do I have holes in my shoes? And he said, that's just a cash flow problem, Peter, you know, because, you know, still we weren't making any money. We were still.

Everything was going back into it, sure. But I was living enough, drawing off enough, you know, to pay the mortgage and to, you know, to do all of those sorts of things.

But there was certainly no, no fat, you know, to live off a cash.

Flow problem, but also related to just who you are, your character, your personality. You know, I've never known you to be someone who flaunts around, you know, what they earn and buying expensive things just to have them.

You know, you invest in what you care about. You have good gear, like, you have a good sense of style, you eat good food.

Yes, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that to me was lifestyle. That's just about lifestyle. That's about. And showing what's important.

And I, because I remember sort of I had this thought that when I got to be 45, I wanted to be independent, financially independent. That was just so. And I got to 45 and that didn't happen. You know, so poor and also just living. And then I, and then I sort of.

And I was walking one day with my, with my daughter.

We went down to the mailboxes in, in the spring, you know, and annie was about 8 or 9 and she was homeschooled and I was walking down the road with her and it was beautiful spring day and I was walking along and I thought, you know what? Life doesn't get much better than this. This is absolutely, you know, everything you need.

I'm independent, I'm running my own business, I've got a beautiful daughter. You know, I've got this freedom to do what I want. And that was so important to me.

And you know, ultimately that unraveled, of course, with a relationship, sure presses of all of those, of life and, and lots of another story. But. And, and I ended up living in a small community, living in the house in the Kootenays, running the business on my own.

And I came very close to a breakdown and I ended up coming back to the UK for three months and it was a very good friend of mine who had been a mentor to me and helped me with the business and he ran the chain of outdoor retailer stores, Rahala Pure.

And I, and I went back to, I came back to the UK for three months and, and then, and then I was like, where do I want to be? Do I want to stay in the uk? Do I want to be in, in Canada? Yeah, I want to be in the Kootenays. And ultimately I just decided, I want to be in Canmore.

I just decided to move to Canmore.

And I literally in the September, I got on a, on a plane and I flew back to Calgary, rented a car, drove to Canmore, found somewhere to live and the business was being taken care of in, in, in bc. In BC at the time, right.

And I was paying a member of staff to run it and I was relying on David's sort of network and his whole Work warehouse on that. So he kindly managed it for me. Yeah. And I spent the winter in Canmore skiing, basically recovering from, you know, life on this sort of.

And then I went back in, probably in about February time. I went to, in Vernon, I went to see David in Vernon and we sat down for breakfast and he just looked me in the eye and he said, it's time. Yeah.

And it's like time to come back and take it over, you know.

Right.

And I looked at then moving either myself to Vernon or taking the business back to Canmore.

And so I went back to gamble and I found a space and within six months I had six people working for me and, and we just grew and I just threw myself totally into that. You know, we ended up ultimately selling to six or seven hundred retail stores across Canada.

We're in all the Fasani Group, we're in, you know, all the major retailers across the country. And we were turning over, you know, four and a half million dollars a year with a staff of 10 people running out of Camel.

Impressive. Yeah.

And it was, it was a lovely lifestyle. And then of course, we were successful and the owners, you know, the Bath in Spain then came to us and literally sat, came, visited.

The director came and visited me and he said, we're buying your company, we're going to buy your whole company and we'll keep you for two years and employ you for two years and then keep you out. And I was literally devastated and I fought for a year to keep it.

Of course it caused a lot of uncertainty amongst everybody and ultimately, you know, some difficulty. In the end it got to the point where I just had to say, you know, okay, you win, you know. Yeah, I can't.

I think it wasn't worth the stress of it all.

The stress of it was huge.

Yeah, I remember you telling me about this in Canmore.

Yeah. I remember my daughter saying, dad, there's an old saying, take the money and run. Yeah, yeah.

You know, and you know, I, I mean it sounds like a lot of money, but I got a check for a million dollars, you know, and it's everyone's, every entrepreneur's dream, isn't it? You know, you become a millionaire, you, you're a startup, you build the business, you walk away with a check for a million dollars.

And it sounds like a lot of money, but by the time you paid the taxes and the accountants and the solicitors and all those other bills, it doesn't leave you with a lot, you know, And I was on a six figure salary running Buff. And then my daughter came back to UK and went to Oxford to be, to go to med school. And I was an. I paid fees and I was very, very fortunate position.

I had the money to be able to support her, you know, through that process.

Right.

But it was, it was a great, it was hard. It was a very, very hard period in my life without any. Because I love what I did. I love the people I work with.

I love to find that we were so strong in the community and we could support athletes and, and the wider picture. And it was, and, and I suppose it was a, you know, what's the word?

It, it was my family, you know, as well, you know, I'd lost, you know, my, my, you know, my actual family going through a divorce, but that was my, you know, my, my bigger family. And, and, and I created some lovely relationships with a lot of people during that time that are very special to me.

And, and I'm very proud that we could support athletes and who, who went on to Olympics and. Yeah, yeah, I'm hugely proud of that. But ultimately it was, it was a big loss.

Yeah, but that's. Again, that sounds no different than the other stories that you've already relayed.

Like you chose to jump into something that you were passionate about, that you cared about, that was, you know, aligned with your values, a certain amount of naivete, but you went in with the right values. Right. You went in with at least a solid work ethic and you figured it out and you created something out of basically nothing. Right.

And then came a point where that ended, wasn't right for you anymore. Something different came out, whatever, you know, that the case is.

And on that point, I'd like to jump into the next venture a little bit and hear specifically about how that kind of came to a close as well. Because Covid was the main reason for the co working space.

It was.

Yeah, okay, it was.

And I found myself back in that same situation I'd been back in when I walked out of that job as a personnel manager back in, you know, in my early 30s and back in Yorkshire. And I suddenly found myself at home with nothing to do. And I was offered to stay for two years to rumba for two years.

And they offered me a good six figure salary to do that.

Yeah.

And I couldn't stay. I couldn't take that.

I couldn't take that money and see what they would do to the company in terms of taking away the values and what was important to me.

Yeah, something you built and then seeing them taking that over and changing.

No.

Yeah.

No. And I've always said, you know, never do anything for money reasons, whether that's, you know, to.

Because you've got too much money or not enough money.

And you know, I ran the center in Nordic center in Scotland on a very, very low salary, but I was happy to do that and I was offered a huge amount of money to run Buff, but I couldn't take that. So I ended up basically kicking around at home. And I talked to my daughter one time and I said to her, I want to get back into photography.

But it's changed, you know, it's all changed. It's. I used to shoot film, you know, you know, slides.

Yeah.

And, and I said, you know, all of that technology has changed and it's now Photoshop and Lightroom and all these different things. And I don't know those. And I said, and I don't know if I'm good enough. And she looked at me, she said, dad, go and get good enough.

And that was brilliant advice, a teenager at the time.

And I, and I did and I went to Iceland and I went to Dallas and I went to Santa Fe and I went and shot with some world class photographers and workshops and I learned and I, and I went back and I, and I, and I realized that that's something that passionate I was about. And I did a lot of shooting for Buff, but there was no, it was, we were shooting for ourselves. There was no.

Yeah, commercial sort of pressure on that and I, and I loved it. And I shot a lot of crossing, ski racing and, and all sorts of other winter sports and, and I absolutely loved it.

And it was a real great stress reliever.

But I decided, yeah, sorry, is that what led to the co working space then?

Yeah, because I was one of the girls who worked for me at Buff left. Mel. She left and came, she only lasted a month at Bath and she came to me, she called me and said, I can't work here anymore.

And so she left and she came to work for me and we were running from home and we were running a photography video business and started to get clients, started to get some good stuff. And then. But we're running from my house and I thought, I need somewhere to work from, I need a studio.

And so I started looking around and of course being me, I couldn't just take on a small space. I ended up taking on 3,000 square foot of space which we turned into a fuse box, which you turn into a co working space.

And again, it was exciting building that literally Painting the walls, buying all the furniture, buying everything.

A huge investment, you know, probably invested well over a couple of hundred thousand dollars into the whole project in terms of time and, and you know, and space and everything else.

And then, and then started attracting people and building it and you know, people like you came into our lives and you know, and lots of other people and it sort of started to create its own energy and of course Covid hit and I realized right from the very start that this is not going to work.

Yeah.

And I was paying out something like 10,000amonth in rent and plus all the other costs, insurances and all of the other in costs. And I really just sat down and I thought this is not going to go away in a rush.

And this is in the very, very early days of COVID when it first started.

Right.

And we, you know, we was, we had to shut it down and, and so I, you know, I went to my solicitor and I said, can get me out of this five year lease because you know, and, and it was really hard because they, they, they, they weren't up for it. And eventually I ended up paying, I think an extra month rent and we managed to, to get, to get out of it. But.

Yeah, I think.

And yeah, so I ended up at home again in Canmore on my own during lockdown. My daughter was back in the UK going through med school and another, you know, long story, but we had a conversation about Christmas that year.

You know, if she came over, she had to go into two weeks isolation and then she only had two weeks leave and if I went the other way, you know, all of those sorts of questions. And in the end I went, why am I here? Why am I in Canmore?

Right.

Aesthetically I love Canmore. I love, you know, living in the mountains, the lifestyle, you know, all of that.

I mean it's a world class tourist destination and for, for a good reason.

But emotionally I was finding it quite tough, obviously being isolated and you know, my daughter was back here and I thought, well, she's going to be in the UK for the, for the long run.

Yeah.

And so I literally within seven weeks of having a conversation with her about Christmas, I'd sold my house, I'd sold my car, I Sold most of my possessions and I was on an airplane flying back to the uk thinking, yeah, yeah, it's a good move.

Again, did you have a place to land at that point or did I miss that? Did you like when you flew back home?

I, yeah, because actually my daughter found me a place in Oxford. She found me an apartment and so I moved back into, into that. So I rented a place and I lived there for about nine months.

Right.

In Oxford. And so I got to see Annie on a regular basis, which was, which was lovely.

And then I applied to come down to Portsmouth to come to do a one year boat building course.

Traditional boat building again, something completely new. You hadn't done that before?

No, no. So I moved down to Portsmouth and I started literally, you know, from scratch.

We started in joinery, learning one end of a chisel from another, learning, you know, all the dovetail joints and, and everything else, and then moving on to small boats and then larger boats and, and all of the boat building and, and I loved it. I loved standing at my. Going in in the morning, standing at my bench with a piece of wood and just creating and doing something.

Yeah.

And, and then about 3/4 away through our course, they announced the college was closing. And again, a long story, but we were one of the last courses that would complete, you know, the course.

Right.

And, and I tried to keep it open. I tried to take it over as an independent organization because, you know, without going into the details of how it was organized and run. Sure.

But, but that didn't, that didn't work. But as a result of that, I was offered the workshop where we had actually done our joinery workshop to take that over at the end of our course.

And so I ended up taking over a thousand square foot workshop with access to a machine shop and, and starting a boat building business. Took on a couple of fellow students and been.

Been doing that for the last two and a half years, three years restoration work, you know, building boats.

And it's satisfying, it's fun, it's profitable.

Some days, sure, yeah. It's hard. I mean, I'm not getting any younger. You know, it's full on, you know, I work full time.

I've lost, you know, I've had staff and people move on and, and you know, the hard thing is of course, not only not having the 10,000 hours of background skill, you know, in boat building and I, and I'm a perfectionist. And so it's hard to, you know, know when to call stuff and to, and it's hard to Know how to cost staff, you know, jobs. Right. I've been learning.

It's been a massive learning experience. I've managed to try to cut my thumb off and get 23 stitches in my thumb.

No way.

Yeah.

Wild.

So, yeah, I mean, I've given blood, sweat and tears to this, literally.

A buddy of mine almost lost his thumb I don't know, maybe a year and a half ago. He's. I think it's construction. I think he started his own thing.

I think he started primarily doing work with staircases and just about lost his thumb entirely. It was a massive. Yeah, surgery. I think he's got a piece of metal now in his thumb. I'm not sure.

I just, I cut mine with one of those little craft knives. I actually severed the tendon in my thumb. I know, but I won't send you the pictures then. No, don't.

No, we're not going to use that for the promotion of the podcast.

But, yeah, I mean, and. But you know what?

I think it's sort of what I see what I do is a creative process and I realize that even at my age, what inspires me and makes me get up and what I look at in terms of, you know, content is creativity.

And whether that's building a business, building a brand, you know, or physically now building, you know, a lifestyle or building a physical product like, you know, like a wooden boat. That's what really inspires me.

And that's, I suppose that's the thread almost that's run through, you know, through my life, I suppose, failures and all the change and all of those other things. And even now we.

And everyone sees it now and I've literally just finished it in the last week or so. People come and go, oh my God, it's amazing. It looks absolutely gorgeous. But I look at it and go, yeah, but that's not right. And that's not right.

And I see these, you know, and I'm hard on myself and I hate it, you know, and I shouldn't do, because I do step back at it and I look at it and go, that's pretty cool.

That show that with help, you know, in over time with different people and I had some wonderful people help me, but for the last four or five months I've been working on my own on it. And I, you know, and I do look at it and I think, yeah, the standard's really high. It's not as high as it could be, but it's.

Oh, man, you're preaching to the choir. If you can. That's the thing, though.

If you can manage that balance, between taking a step back and recognizing that what you did is pretty cool, pretty good, you know, and other people are saying it's better than what you think it is, so you understand that you did something good, but also holding on to those high standards, not to the point where you're hard on yourself, but where you expect, you know, your work to be good. If you can manage that balance.

Right, and that definitely sounds like it's been a thread, you've probably become better at being less hard on yourself over the years. But if you can manage that balance, that's where. That's the sweet spot.

Yes. I'll tell you a very small story. When. When I was starting boat building, one of the things you do is build a toolbox.

You build a big wooden tool chest, and it's one of the big projects you make, and it's got lots of dovetail joints in it, and. And you spend weeks and weeks, probably a month, couple of months, building a box.

And I had built my box and I was very proud of it, and I, you know, and I actually had it on the floor and I was sanding it down prior to. To finishing it, you know, to oiling it, and I. It was literally done, and I.

And I finished it all off and I went to pick it up and as I lifted it, and it's a big box, probably, you know, a couple of feet long and waste, you know, quite a lot, a lot of weight behind it. And because I'd been using sandpaper, I'd got lots of, you know, sawdust on my hands.

And as I went to pick the box up, I dropped it and I dropped it from about waist height and it bounced onto the corner and sprung some of the bit off at the bottom. And it made this huge noise in the workshop and there was just this silence. And then I went, ah. So I just. I picked it up and. And I.

And I went and found one of the instructors and I said, james, what do I do? How do I fix this bit here? I remember other people on the course were saying, I can't believe you did that, because I would have stormed out.

I would have shouted and screamed and sworn or gone sat in the corner cried and all of that. And I was just like, yeah. But I just thought, yeah, that's done. That is, that's in the past. I've done it. I've numpty, you know, I've made a mistake.

What do I need to do to fix it? And I suppose that's just something that's just in my nature. It's like, you know, we have those mistakes. Failures cut my thumb.

It's like, okay, how do I deal with this? What do I do now? No good regretting things or, oh, I, I wouldn't sleep at night if I had. I thought about the regrets.

Yeah, well, you wouldn't sleep at night, but you also wouldn't be where you are now. I mean, you wouldn't have started the next business and the next one. And the next one.

Yeah. And I think we could probably have this conversation again in 25 years time. And you're going to go, wow.

Yeah. Well, I hope shift ashore doesn't end anytime soon. And, you know, there's big changes coming.

You know, I don't know. I mean, I'm, I'm at a crossroads, to be honest. Again.

Really?

Yeah. You know what? I think a lot of people, entrepreneurs talk about this, about being starters and not finishers.

Sure.

And, and I love, let's say it's that creativity side and I think I love building the brand and building the business and, and setting things up. But then I start getting like itchy feet and going, wow, what's over the horizon? What's next?

I get that. Yeah. Once processes are in place and you've had some success and what you envisioned is realized.

Yeah.

You can get a little bored with at least I, Yeah, I have experienced what I think is similar. Yeah.

I remember one of the girls at Bob saying to me after I told the business, she said, peter, you, your heart's not been in this for years, you know, because I've done it, I've made it successful.

And that was, I remember sort of thinking about when I moved to Camel and thinking about setting up the business and thinking, what do I want Green Extreme, the company to be and for Buff to be. And then, you know, years later I sort of reflected and I thought, yeah, I've done that. We've got where I wanted to be with it. I'm proud of that.

But it was. Yeah. But then you also get to that point where, yeah, kind of bored now. Need something else.

Well, I'll check back with you in 25 years. We'll do another episode.

Hopefully I'LL still be around, see if.

The medium of podcasts even exist in 25 years. Well, Peter, I appreciate your time. I'm not going to use all of this. I don't. I don't heavily.

You probably condense it down to about 10 minutes or something.

Absolutely not. No. This is going to be one of the longer episodes that I've. I've had.

But like I said, Peter, like, I knew you'd be a fantastic guest, and as soon as we started talking, I, like, I knew a bit of your story. But, you know, that's a very interesting story.

And a lot of the guys that I know that listen to this, they're going to find this very interesting or fun, inspiring.

You know, just the simple fact that you continued to put yourself out there, you know, and do work that was at least just interesting, you know, you didn't have things lined up. You know, all your ducks weren't in a row, you know, but you figured it out and it's pretty much worked every single time. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I'm not sure if it's just luck or just graft or. I think you make your own luck, don't you?

To an extent.

And, yeah.

You know, you look back and you think, yeah, something's just happened and we're lucky, or you saw an opportunity and about, you know, making mistakes but then having to fix them and knowing how to fix them as you go.

I remember friend David, who ran Bajala Pure, a very successful entrepreneur, and he said, I've made lots and lots of mistakes in my life, but I know how to fix them. And I think I sort of taken that. And there's never right decisions. You know, you make a decision and then you. You live with it.

And that's sort of what I've always done.

Yeah.

You know, I can look back and think, if only I've done that, didn't have that opportunity, or who, you know, we won't be having this conversation, you know, at the end of the day now, because my life would have gone in, you know, if I had never opened fuse box, because if I'd done something else, if I'd been an army officer, or I gone and read geography and become an urban planner somewhere or something like that, you know, isn't it weird how life, you know, leads you in that way?

You know, our lives touched purely because, you know, Buff, I had to go through that thing with Buff and I had to move into something else, an open fuse box and. And how that all developed.

Yeah.

And you Walk in one day and you go, you know, how cool is that? I mean, how cool is all of those serendipitous moments in our lives. Yeah, that happen.

Yeah. And I grew up, you know, very sheltered, you know, close minded, other just simply because I didn't have outside influence.

You know, I grew up on an island, obviously, Newfoundland, but then within the church community and the Pentecostal Church very specifically. Right.

So it's a very small, I would say mostly closed minded community because, you know, you're looking at things through that religious lens where it's like, some things are right, some things are wrong, and what you need, you already have. You're taught to be content with what you have. I didn't have people around me who traveled.

I didn't have people around me who talked about, you know, anything other than what I was already experiencing. So until I decided to even go and study theology because at least that got me out of the island, Right.

So I met people who lived from, who had come from different places and different backgrounds and whatever. But it wasn't until I moved to Vancouver properly, right.

When I was 28, that I really, you know, opened my mind up a little bit and was forced to, because I. The first memory that I have of thinking like, wow, this is not Newfoundland anymore. It's different.

I was in a Costco in Burnaby and I could hear everybody around me talking, but nobody was speaking English. It was Mandarin, it was Cantonese, it was German, it was Russian. It was like, like, where am I? This is awesome, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So isn't that cool?

Yeah. I'm glad our paths cross, man. You're.

Well, likewise.

I hope to know for an extended period of time.

I hope it's not another four years or five years or something.

All right, man, I appreciate it.

You take it easy, eh?

Yeah. Take care, Peter.

Yeah, bye. Cheers.

Thank you for listening. I hope you found some value in this episode.

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