If you’ve been trying to conceive for over a year and want this level of detective work on your case, apply to work with me and my team here: drjanelevesque.com/application.

It takes about 5–7 minutes to complete. If we can help, we’ll invite you to a free Fertility Clarity Call with one of my team members. On that call, we’ll go through your story, see what’s been missed, and walk you through our simple 3‑step Clarify → Correct → Conceive process that’s helped over 70% of our clients finally bring home a healthy baby.

Episode Summary

In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Elissa to unpack one of the most overlooked pieces in fertility: methylation. We break down what methylation actually is, why testing just one marker (like MTHFR or homocysteine) is not enough, and how this process impacts egg quality, sperm health, implantation, and miscarriage risk.

If you’ve been told “everything looks normal” or you’re stuck chasing supplements without clear direction, this episode will help you understand why a deeper, more personalized approach is essential and how optimizing your body at the cellular level can completely change your fertility outcomes.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Methylation is being missed, even by natural practitioners
• Methylation controls egg quality, implantation, and miscarriage risk
• ICSI bypasses the symptom, not the root cause
• Having the gene variant doesn't mean it will express negatively
• A personalized protocol always beats a prenatal
• Recurrent pregnancy loss before week six, always look at methylation

About Dr. Jane’s Practice

I’m a Naturopathic Doctor and Natural Fertility Expert. My team and I work 1:1 with couples who’ve been struggling with infertility for 1+ years to get to the root cause of their fertility issues so they can conceive and bring a healthy baby home, using advanced lab testing and personalized protocols.

Our mission is to make science-backed, natural fertility care the standard so more couples can build healthy, thriving families.

If you want this level of support on your own case, apply here: drjanelevesque.com/application

Hey, thanks so much for being here and tuning into another podcast episode of Natural Fertility with Dr. Jane. Today, Dr. Elisa and I are going to talk about methylation. And you might be thinking, methyl what? Methylation. Elisa, tell everybody why you decided to pick this as a topic for conversation.

Hahaha

Yes. So I love the methylation panel, the methylation cycle and what it means to fertility. I share this with my patients all the time. I'm like, I'm so excited to look at your methylation. It's going to tell us so much more about your body and about your fertility journey. And I've just been finding recently, well, maybe not just recently, but it's just missed. Like it's something that's missed. It's missed in the conventional system. It's missed by a lot of other natural practitioners.

like ourselves, that we're just not seeing it or we're seeing small parts of it being tested. And then we're assuming that that's all we need to see. So we're gonna take a step back. We're gonna look at the bigger picture. We're gonna look at the whole cycle, why it matters to fertility and not why just each individual piece.

Yep. Well, tell me about what you just said about why you started thinking about this.

Yes, so recently I had a couple on board with us and she was so excited to go over her labs because she had methylation ran. Like she went to her conventional provider, she's like, I saw on our Instagram that you needed to look at methylation. And so they ran methylation for her. And when I took a look at it, it was only one part.

was just homocysteine that was looked at. And I actually pulled up an example for her and showed her all of the other pieces of the puzzle that we look at.

And we're going to pull those up again. We redacted some labs because if you are watching this on YouTube, then you can see the labs and we'll walk through them because whether it's the homocysteine or the MTHLFR gene or, I got my B12 tested and my folate and I'm taking my folate. So I'm good. I have this.

whole big process that you know nothing about covered just by taking folate. And again, I don't blame you because I remember when I first graduated and that was 11 years ago, I went into a conference as we do for our continuing education and the MTHFR gene was just like exploding. And it was honestly just going over my head because I'm like, I don't understand what these people are talking about. It's you're telling me everybody needs folate and they need this volume of folate. So you should just be prescribing it and it's, know, cancer treatment.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

all of this other stuff. So it was just going over my head and I'm like, I'm not gonna bother with this right now, because I don't even understand what you're talking about. But, you know, as the science continue to evolve, and there's more and more information that's available, you see more and more people that are like, it's the MTHL-phar gene, and you have to stop eating folic acid and you need folate. And it's like, yes, well, folic acid is terrible. You need folate, but you need it in the direct proportions to...

Mm-hmm.

methylcobalamin or hydroxycobalamin depending on what the person needs. And then you need to look at the riboflavin, the niacinamide, the serine, the glycine, then it's like the whole cycle that we'll talk about. It's so oversimplified to say, well, I have my folate, I'm taking my B12, my homocysteine is good. So our hope is that after this podcast, you go, methylation is really important. If you are a practitioner listening to this, then we encourage you to start looking at this because this is such a missed component in

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

everybody's healthcare, especially if they have any chronic issues. And I consider fertility a chronic disease, especially if you've been struggling, you know, for more than a year. And we have couples who have been trying for two, four, five, eight years. So, you know, if you don't understand what's happening there, you're never going to be able to shift the person in the way that we know is possible for the body to heal.

Yeah, absolutely. The MTHFR is something that I've heard a lot too, even before I started working in fertility and, you know, different meanings behind it and what we're calling it out as and what we're kind of blaming it on. So to take a step back and look at the whole cycle and it just, gave me such a bigger perspective on it. And now looking at it through the fertility lens. Yeah, you guys are going to love this. Let's get it. Let's get into it.

Mm-hmm.

Yes. Well, let's get into it. Why does it matter for fertility? How does it show up in the fertility space?

Yeah, so when we're looking at methylation, we're looking at things at the cellular level. So a lot of precursors to a lot of other things that are happening within the body. So methylation is controlling things such as egg quality and implantation and your miscarriage risk. It's the gene expression in the ovaries, the endometrium, and then the embryo from both sides.

And the embryo is this sperm is now taking this sperm in the egg. Yeah.

the sperm and the egg. So it's a lot, it has a lot to do with those beginning factors, but then also going into pregnancy, which we'll talk on a little bit too of how methylation is impacting pregnancy outcomes, but also how you're feeling and how you're functioning during your pregnancy.

in the development of.

the baby. So methylation and really simple, like I love what you said, it is on the cellular level. So how the cell is functioning, it is a process that happens in every single cell of the body. So it has to do with DNA repair, it's hormone production, it's detoxification, it's energy production. like, it literally everything has to do with is that methylation glitchy or not? And if there's a lot of glitches within

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

in the methylation, then you're not gonna be as smooth in repairing your DNA. And then if you think about fertility, well, what are you trying to do? You're trying to take the best DNA from the sperm and the best DNA from the egg. You're trying to fuse them together. And the download of the information happens on day two. So methylation is, it's not just if you're gonna get pregnant or not. It is essentially how is the biological instructions that are being delivered

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

to the embryo or at that point it's a zygote so it's just two cells not you know it's not even a blastocyst so it's the download of that information that's really really important.

Mm-hmm.

and not just on the female side, but the male side as well. Yeah, there's research that's showing like the egg is sending signals for the sperm and the egg is trying to find the best quality sperm that it can. Once that connection happens, then the egg and you know, through remethylation is working really hard to fix anything that's wrong in the sperm's DNA. And so if we have really high quality egg and really high quality sperm,

both.

Yes.

The egg has to work a lot less hard in order to make that happen. So it matters on both sides of fertility as well.

Yep. Yeah, it's huge. think it's really underestimated. And I actually made a piece of content about this. I think it's a huge lie when you are told that male fertility factor can be bypassed through ICSI. So when they essentially pick the best sperm, inject it into a syringe and then inject it into the egg, it's you do not bypass the genetic code that is being passed into the egg.

Yes.

you're literally bypassing the fact that that sperm is too weak to penetrate the egg or the shell of the egg is too hard, which happens when there is a lot of oxidative stress as well. So again, it takes two to tango. And I remember seeing some stories of women struggling with chronic infertility and it's like, we had to do icksy because the zona pellucida, the outside of the egg was too hard. And so even though his sperm was great, it couldn't get through.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

And it's like, why is nobody asking why that's happening? You know, like, let's just bypass it. And it's like, no, you're not bypassing it. There's a genetic code, there's inflammation, there's so many things. So methylation is this genetic code that's being passed down in the DNA. You know, essentially the DNA repair mechanism is all leaning on methylation. And then like when the embryo is developing, God, it's there, there's so much there. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And the DNA, yes, and then the DNA that's being passed to that embryo. So if you're skipping a step, then what does that say about the genetic coding that your baby's getting?

One of my mentors actually, a long time ago, I think I just heard her speak about this on the podcast, but she said, think about it like when you're having a baby, you're essentially like photocopying a book. So then you're photocopying the pages of the book so then it could be, you know, a different, the genetic code is in there. So if the book has...

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

pages that are missing or it has some scratches that it's really hard to photocopy and get the proper message in. that what I think we don't understand how much influence we can have to repair the book that we're about to download for the baby. And we're gonna talk about that, like all of the things that you can do and we'll open up some of the methylation panels. But if you envision this book that you're photocopying,

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Is the book right now worth copying or do you need to clean up the environment a little bit because it's the whole the genes they're there but the environment will trigger you know we'll pull the gun.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I just had this aha moment with one of my clients where, you know, there was some pushback and, you know, on lifestyle changes and different factors. And then I explained his methylation to him and he was like, I get it. And then I watched the video that Dr. Jane made about sperm quality and now I get it. Like, I'm doing all of this so that I pass on better genetics to my kid. And I'm like, wow, you came up with that all by yourself and that was so good. I'm so proud of you.

Yeah, you got it. Yes, I so proud of you. Yeah, totally. So let's talk about the labs in because most people are not testing it. They're only testing components. I'm going to share my screen and we have a couple of different labs that we can share with you guys. And some of them are we don't have the genetic component and then some of them we do. So

So yes, it, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

This is the lab that we are using. It's by Genova. It's the methylation panel. What I will say the timing of when you get this done within your cycle in the morning, all of that matters. You can test it at any time of the cycle, but you will see fluctuations within the methylation. You know, if it's day two or three testing versus ovulation versus second half of the cycle, we tend to test in either the early part of the cycle or

Ovulation is really great so we can get an idea of the environment of what's happening right as the egg is about to ovulate and the inflammatory process because if there's a lot of inflammation right as the body's about to ovulate. Obviously can pose lots of different issues and then if we test the day two and three that's usually when all the hormones are quiet so that's also another okay time to test. The second half of the cycle

Again, you're if there's a lot of inflammation because let's say you have endometriosis and that's when women will tend to start to get more bloating and their hormones are out of whack and they just feel imbalanced. You're you're gonna see different things. So this is not static. And so what we've done is a we test the blood, but we also now test the hormones and this is the homocysteine marker right here. If I go, where's the beautiful graph? Let's see if I could make it smaller, but

Yes.

This is the methylate cycle and all the nutrients that are involved in the blue are the genes. So when someone tells us they're testing homocysteine, that's what we're seeing. If someone tells us they test the MTHF-R, we're looking at the folate cycle over here, one blue. know, Elisa talk about all the things that are involved and I'll kind of share one with the labs, with a...

Yeah, so when we're looking, we're looking at one, the gene, like is the gene turned on? Is the gene getting the proper nutrients that it needs in order to function within the cycle? And so like Dr. Jane was saying, like pointing out just the two factors is a very small blimp on the entire cycle where each of these things are a precursor to another. And this is how your body is detoxing.

Yes.

Thank

and how your body is moving hormones and so many things that are related to fertility and just supplementing one thing is just a small piece of the story. And so I have other clients that come in and they're like, like Dr. Jane said, I've just been supplementing folate because my so, said my, yeah. And so you have it, you're not gonna change the fact that you have the gene, but how are the things functioning around it?

My MTHFR gene is good.

So looking at the nutrients and the precursors to those so B2, B3, magnesium, zinc, all of the things that are precursors to these. Yes. Yeah.

Lacturine, glycine, methionine. so, let's, well, look, this is a male and he actually has, so as soon as we see this, and if I don't know anything about him, and so, Elise, I believe this is your patient, and we have discussed the case, so clinically we'll go over all the cases together because there's lots of things that we can uncover, but right away you see that the ratio is imbalanced. And so,

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

What does that really mean? Well, when the SAMI is low, this is somebody who's gonna feel depressed, potentially impulsive. So like some people will get more impulsive when they're depressed in that kind of ADHD symptoms versus more down and sleepy and all of that kind of stuff. So SAMI is a big one. When I see SAMI that slow like this, I think that this is a pretty depressed individual. And I remember one of my guys, he was...

Like he's a big founder, you know, building an incredible company, building another one now, and he's like not having a good time building it. And his Sammy came back really low. And I never like thought that he didn't present to me as depressed. But then we look at the Sammy and I'm like, you know, these are levels of someone who's depressed. And he's like, well, I would say I am depressed. And I'm like.

Mm-hmm.

Right, that was so helpful for me to know. was like, you are depressed. I didn't realize you were so depressed because he's so he's achieved so much, but he also feels this burden of like having to do it now and not actually enjoying it. So I really find it's powerful to have a good history. But then when I see these tests, I go.

what's going on? Like his mood is probably quite affected. And so depending on the other factors for my patient, when we introduced Sammy, now it's not something that I usually introduce right off the bat because it could be pretty strong. But for him, it was such a game changer. And his wife was like, he's enjoying life again. Like he's going out with walking with a dog. feel like we're a family as opposed to, you know, he's in a corner working hard and all of that stuff. So I always, we always want to look at the patterns before we go to the

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

because sometimes the homocysteine here will say that it's at 10. And so for us, that's high. We wanna see at seven, know, six to 7.5, eight, it's starting to creep up. So 10 isn't good. And then if you look at cholesterol and other, like now we're thinking about cardiovascular risk. So I don't know if you wanna speak on that.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So.

This is why we take more than just one test as well. for, yes, for this, you know, client in particular, looking at the methylation tells us a backstory to a lot of the other things that are happening within the system. So liver enzymes were elevated showing, you know, decreased liver detox. LDLs were elevated showing that cardiovascular risk in the blood work, looking at the gut, leaky gut, fermenting the food, foods not passing through, motility.

Totally, yeah, it's a beautiful test, but it's not enough just on its own.

is low and then you go back and you look at this client's sperm analysis and low DNA fragmentation, less volume of the sperm, high DNA fragmentation, excuse me. Yes, yes. And so that's why we look at everything that we're looking at is because this is a beautiful piece of the puzzle, but

lower high DNA fragmentation.

Yes, right. So it sense.

we're looking at all of the tests and what they mean together so that we can come up with the protocol for this person. But then when you look at the methylation, I'm like, wow, I don't even have to look at the blood work and I can tell you what types of things are probably gonna come up. And very commonly, like Dr. Jayden was talking about, we're seeing with the mood or we're seeing with the cardiovascular risk because this is the precursor, this is at the cellular level.

Yeah, then the, so methyl group donors versus, so like how many are going into the methylation cycle versus how many are being metabolized and used and where things are getting stuck. And then the transylforation metabolites is essentially the detoxification pathway. So.

We always look at the numbers and then we'll look at, because sometimes it looks like it's in the green, for example, the homocysteine looks like it's in the green, but for us it's actually quite high. And so, and methionine, it's in the green. don't remember, 29 is okay, but we want it a bit higher. A lot of these are proteins. So when we talk about what do we do to correct this and why we don't, like I love what you said, why don't we just test one thing? Because...

Mm-hmm.

Even if you look at the one test, it's going to be super helpful. But a lot of the times we'll see methionine that's really low. We'll see serine and glycine that's really low. We'll see cysteine, glutathione, taurine. Those are all amino acids. then it's like amino acids are broken down from peptides that are broken down from large proteins. So then you're like, but there's fermentation of proteins in the gut. So is he not eating enough protein or he's not digesting it?

Mm-hmm.

In this case, it's like he's not digesting it and he's probably not eating enough fiber to help support with the digestion and the absorption because motility is low. And when motility is low, we're thinking there's not enough fiber, there's not enough movement in the body to help like physical movement to help things actually get through. And then that's why the liver enzymes are elevated. And so it's all very much connected. And looking at this, then you're like,

Mm-hmm.

What is going on with digestion? it's there's lots of stuff going on. Okay, and there is an infection, but he doesn't have a big infection his partner does Great. So what do we need to look at the partner in him to make sure because there is that microbial transference and we haven't even you know talked about the genetics but just to give people an idea when you are being told like I just think it's a straight-up lie when you're told

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-mm.

just test this thing and you're good. There's nothing you can do about it. Just on this test alone, we have like five different recommendations. And at least what do I always have say when we're making protocols, it's like, I need you to, as you go through all the tests, and this is what we do, you're just writing down all the recommendations. And it usually ends up being like 30 things. And then our job is to go, but what are the five?

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hey

or what are the three that will move the needle the most because he cannot do all 30 and not all 30 are important. And so that's the art and the skill and the coaching versus punch it into Chad GPT and whatever, know, like people are doing that and then they just listen to it because they don't know what to ask.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And then they go, well, I'm doing everything. And it's like, well, you're doing everything that you know of, but there is also the art of understanding multiple moving pieces, how it's all impacting one another. And then what is this person in front of me capable of doing? Physically, emotionally, mentally, financially, you know, all of them.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And all of those factors play into each other. So what we're seeing at the data, but then what we're talking about at that mental emotional component, and then something that people don't realize that we're doing too, is like, we're looking past when you first started trying to get pregnant. We're looking at your childhood. We're looking at your relationship with your parents, how you were raised, where you were raised, what you could have been exposed to, which are all precursors to what's gonna show up on your test results.

But sure, because your body accumulates, right? It accumulates over time. And let's go into some of the genes, because I think the genes is I just pressed something and I'm not sure what it is. All good. We're back in business.

Okay.

Yeah. You didn't disappear, so that's good sign.

I know, that's it. I'm like, God, it's just, why do you make it so difficult? I don't believe it's this one. I have a couple of them open. So let me just make sure I have, there we go. So with the genetics, we're measuring the SNPs, meaning the, is the SNP on one versus two of the DNA components. And it's not necessarily about like if the gene is on or off.

it's does that gene have a fragmentation, you know, and how much of it is fragmented. So two pluses is not good. It's more. And one plus means there's just one strand of the DNA. And it's there is another one that's not included on here, the COMT. I don't do you want to talk about why we don't just like jump off the cliff when we see that there's two positives?

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah, well, it kind of goes back to that saying, like, the genin X loads the gun, but the lifestyle pulls the trigger. So just because you have it doesn't mean that that's going to be expressed in your body or expressed in a negative way. so finding this is a really good snapshot to look at those genetics and those factors to be able to supplement and nurture your body in the way that it needs to.

Yes.

aside from fertility as well, but like as the bigger picture of, if you can like see there a little closer, all of those other things that we talked about, like the B2, the B3, and all of those things that need to be supported in order to...

Yep. Yeah, it's like the gene can function just fine when it has the right nutrients and it's balanced. It's there is essentially, you know, you have one DNA variation versus two DNA variations. And when we have it still functioning, it's just going to need to have the nutrients in the place for it to function properly.

Hmm. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

because when part of the code is missing, it's not as good at reading it, basically. So it's like that book that we were talking about, let's say there's some words that are erased, you can still make the sentence, you can still understand what's happening. But if now I ask you to read it while you're running, you're not gonna be able to read it, you're not gonna be able to comprehend it. And so the running component is if the nutrients aren't there,

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

then you're asking the body to work harder to be able to read the code and to be able to understand what's happening. So.

We never just test the methylation alone. The other tests that pairs really well with it, and that's something that I'm pushing the US biotech people to do is to increase some things on the nutrient panel from like blood standpoint to look at the riboflavin, because we look at lot of those things in the urine, so how the body is metabolizing it, but not in the blood. And then typically what that does is it just drives the cost up of the test because it's like you have to add all these single nutrients. It's at least a hundred bucks per thing and you need 10 new

so it's like that's a thousand dollars like it's a lot on top of The actual cost of the test and then you need five other tests So that's I think where we should see a lot more Improvement in the next little bit where these tests are going to become a little bit more available because the technology is improving and changing but point being here is and I think that there's still a lot that we don't actually understand about the methylation cycle

because we're still learning about it. But when we see these SNPs, if we get the nutrients correct, this person can have a really good DNA repair and really good hormone production, energy production, detoxification, but it's also probably someone, so like I believe he also had this UOMT gene at the top. And if I see that in women,

I'm always thinking breast cancer, not that men can't have breast cancer, but the way that you metabolize estrogen is going to be compromised here, let alone the adrenaline and the norepinephrine, the epinephrine hormones. So these people tend to be more anxious and more easily overwhelmed because they build up that adrenaline, norepinephrine, epinephrine a lot more in their system, right? And you're laughing because you're like, yes, that's well, it's fitting exactly. And so it's like, I don't know anything about this person. And I like, I do, but I can just be like, is he this?

Because it's fitting. Yeah.

Is he this? Is he this? And then you're like, yes, yes, yes. No, not really. So, you know, the test will tell us quite a bit.

Yeah.

And another beautiful reason why not to just test one is because when you saw in the cycle, each one impacts the other one first. And if your provider is just supplementing because they think that that's what you need to supplement without actually running the test, it's negligent and we need to give what the body needs rather than just giving a bunch of supplements or giving a multivitamin type supplement and hoping.

Yeah.

Yes.

that that works.

Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the multivitamin because I made a couple pieces of content about that. I remember when I first heard Dr. Leah, my mentor, say it, she's like, I'm like, what's a good prenatal you recommend? She's like, I don't use prenatals.

I'm

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

I'm like, what? You're a fertility specialist and you don't use prenatals? And she's like, no, because I test and like, just curate what the person needs. And I find the prenatals too much noise and they usually have too much copper or too much iron or not enough choline or whatever. And I'm like, my God, that's nuts. And it took me probably another six months until I felt confident enough, like working with her until I felt confident enough to be like, yeah, I can't like, there's nothing in this prenatal that this person needs anymore because

Yeah? Yeah?

Mm-hmm.

I know all the nutrients. I can see what's happening with the gut. I can see what's happening with the methylation. And we can talk about like the hierarchy of what we need to make sure is working well to optimize that methylation. And we can have, know, within a three month cycle, because that's the red blood cell cycle, that 120 days, so three to four months, you can have a really good improvement in the methylation. And that obviously lines up with all the information that we have about the

Mm-hmm.

sperm quality can improve in that time. The egg quality can improve. So sometimes you need a couple of rinses. It's not just one. And I do find that most people need more than one rinse. And what I mean by that is like three months, they'll make really big changes. But if you're a person that's starting, let's say I have a client, she's like 250 pounds and she's lost 20 pounds in a month. And I'm like, or a little bit more, two months. So it's like, that's amazing.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, yeah.

And in another two months, she'll be even lighter and better, but she still has another hundred pounds to lose, you know? So that's not going to happen overnight because the body just needs time to repair the deeper components and to rebuild the nutrients, rebuild the proteins and all of that good stuff. yeah, it's you don't need the prenatals becomes noise. The multi vitamins becomes noise because this person doesn't need carnitine.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

do you know what I mean? Or this person doesn't need selenium, but he does need some niacinamide and he needs riboflavin and he needs some glutathione or some cysteine and then you're deciding which one is going to work better based on other results in his gut function because that's, you know, otherwise you're just giving people 30 things and it's like, well, that's overwhelming too.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's, and they're typically a bunch of low doses of a lot of things. And so how I explain it to people too, is I'm like, we're gonna take a bunch of data, we're gonna collect a bunch of information about your system, and then we're gonna essentially build you your own prenatal through various types of supplements based on.

Thank you.

what those needs are within your own body. So we're not giving you just one pill that we built, but we're building you a protocol that is essentially your prenatal protocol that's gonna hit all of those markers that are most necessary in your body at the levels that your body needs rather than just giving you a one size fits all of a bunch of small levels that your body could or could not need.

Yes, I love it. Let's talk about the hierarchy in terms of the foundation, then some of the core nutrients, the methylation companions, the drainage, the detox component of it all as well.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so foundations wise, this is the first thing that we do with people. We're looking at, you know, the lifestyle and like the five components of your body. So what's your protein intake? How is your blood sugar? What is your sleep cycle like? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you getting restful sleep? Are you having regular bowel movements and then inflammation levels within the body and how we can reduce that through lifestyle such as diet. Then...

Yeah, I think the protein is like, so here's what I want to say, because people are like, okay, I'm eating enough protein, I'm eating enough protein. And it's not the protein.

Sure.

Protein consumption is like we need protein, but you can't just hammer your body with any kind of protein. So the quality of that protein really, really matters. So if you're getting that through food sources, like meat sources, where is that meat coming from? Is it grass fed beef? Is it lamb? How is it grown? How is it treated? How was it packaged? How long did it, all of those details. And I have one of my patients like, I don't want to buy meat from the grocery store because it looks gross. And I'm like, you shouldn't buy meat from the grocery store.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

it looks gross but like so you need to find a farmer you need to find someone in the area or delivery service whatever and do your research because food source is really important. Now I'll speak to my patients who are like great that now I'm going to be a carnivore and I had lots because that's huge on the internet right now. There's so many studies and at least I remember when you first started I got you to like watch this gut microbiome module and essentially

Mm-hmm.

you

Yeah.

Again by Dr. Leah Hichman, she presented it for US biotech around the gut microbiome and she just put so much research around the fiber in the prebiotics not so much probiotics but prebiotics the fiber that we need in the bacteria that we need in the gut to be able to digest that protein to break it down into amino acids So then it can be used properly by the body. So we talked about all of those things. It's like those are all amino

Yes.

Hmm?

Mm-hmm.

acids. And so yes, you need to eat more protein. But what's happening in your digestion is really important. And whether that's leaky gut or whether that's you're not eating in a fiber and you're just slamming your body or you're just eating poor quality. I like I can't the gym worlds when I go when we go to Hawaii, I always sign up for like the time that I'm there to the local like global gym. And I just say like, just get fit for the two weeks that I'm there and then I'll

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Because I'll go every day. really like the vibe and then I'll like I'll just go into bodybuilding world But I'm always astound by some like how unhealthy some of those people look even though they're in the gym lifting weights and All they're doing is just chugging so much protein and it's the belly bloat. It's the acne It's the like you could just see how inflamed they are because they just want to get bigger and it's like you're Putting so much crappy protein into your system

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

that your gut is a mess, your liver is a mess, and then you're getting injuries because, I'm just lifting too heavy. And it's like, no, bro, like you gotta eat some fiber. God.

Not to mention the fillers and the additives and like a yeah

Yeah, but I just want to like protein is so important, but so is the fiber and so is the environment that you are eating in. So if you're like on the go all the time, just like don't have time to prep or sit down or whatever, it's like.

but life is just busy. like, I get it. And I've been posting a lot of content about how I'm making food and they're like, you should, I wish you could come live with me and I wish I had time to do that. It's like, yeah, you do. You're making a choice not to do it. It's like, I don't go out to restaurants with whatever, cause it's like, I just don't want to do it. You know, so I have higher priorities. I want to teach my children how to cook and all. It's like you have to make the time to fuel yourself because it's the most important thing that you can do. And I often tell my patients,

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

you have this baby already. Are you gonna be the parent that pulls out the KD as last minute with some microwaved hot dogs for dinner? And they're like, no, I would never feed my child that. I'm like, great. So why don't you just start now? Like if you already had your baby, what would you be making for dinner today? right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Right, so just start doing that. You know, like, but I'll figure it out once I have the babies. well, it's a pretty big learning curve. You should start now. It's a painful one. Yes. Well, it's like you get busier when you have a baby, not less busy. So.

Makes your life easier in the long run.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And then let's talk about some of the core nutrients in the methylation cycle, but like protein is huge, which comes down to digestion and sleep and toxins and all of that.

Corn nutrients, we're looking at folate, B12, B6, the riboflavin, like Dr. Jane has mentioned, magnesium, yeah, B2, B3, all of those precursors that we saw when we looked at it. And those are the things that we're supplementing. And then, you know, in addition to,

you.

We supplement a lot of the amino acids as well. Like if it's taurine, if it's glycine, zinc is a big one. I think zinc, like everybody needs on a good.

to be on a good dose of zinc. Choline, not for everybody. Sometimes you see choline that's elevated and that's usually because that gene is not working properly, that BHMT gene, or the homocysteine is overwhelmed. So like the cycle is just glitchy and it's getting stuck and you're being accumulated. So when we see that kind of beautiful picture, you can see where the cycle is being stuck. And then when you look at the nutrients and the gut function and other infections, all of that, you're like, okay. Or someone is super anxious like taurine is

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

to be super helpful and glycine is going to be super helpful to help calm and bring them down. the amino acids, it's like, yes, we want to increase protein, but we always usually end up curating some kind of amino acids in there as well because so many people are just deficient.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

or like the fermentation of protein, think that's super helpful to see in the gut. I've had so many patients where like I'm eating protein and then you can see that they're fermenting it in the gut. And so that's creating a different kind of mess in the gut, the endotoxins and the bloating and the other bacteria that's growing and feeding off that because essentially things are not moving through properly. So for some people it's the bile flow and the liver support and the digestive support. I've had bitters before food for some

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

people make the biggest difference in their digestion, know, and therefore methylation cycle and everything.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. And toxin reduction. So what you're being exposed to. I mean, what you're putting in your body. What kind of products are you using?

Yes. Yep, for sure. So it's all connected. And I think that if, is there anything else that we missed? I mean, from like the emotional standpoint, nervous system regulation, it's, I feel like it's all connected.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, chronic stress. you know, the feeling, the overwhelmed, the anxiety, dysregulation, sleep fits right into the nervous system regulation. All of it, you know, goes together. Yeah, go back and listen to the Vegas Nerve podcast.

yoga, vagus nerve stimulation.

That's it. Yeah, I think it's, here's my hope is that.

the download happens, the download from the egg and the sperm and the embryo, it's not an embryo yet, but the zygote, the baby goes, all right, this is my information, and then off it goes. So obviously the environment really matters and it will shape if this zygote is then gonna form into a blastocyst, then gonna form into an embryo and essentially implant.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

But it's it's day two. So when people say it doesn't matter, we can bypass male fertility or we can bypass female fertility with IVF.

I still always recommend you need to do at least three months because that three to four month period, you can optimize a lot and it can go from, I don't think it's possible to you could do it naturally, let alone, you know, you need ART at all kinds of ages. know, you're not going to spend, you can either spend thousands of dollars on supplements over a long period of time and not get anywhere, or you can just spend the money on the labs and then be very curated.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you

So you're essentially going to save yourself a lot of time short term and I think cost short term as well, long term as well.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, rather than taking a bunch of supplements and just creating really expensive urine, you can find out what your body needs and absorb what you're taking in.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, anything else that we didn't talk about?

Reflection.

So.

I don't think so, yeah.

We're always going to tell you to test more than less because we do and we're just sharing our process because that's what works for us. And I think depending on the couple, so we have over 70 % success rate. We do update that every quarter and really it usually shifts about in the year, not every quarter. It shifts just because the amount of couples that are rolling out, like we don't work with a lot of people at the time. And then it does an average take probably nine to 12 months. We've had couples when I first started

Mm-hmm.

working it was like three months you'd have couples get pregnant because they just had to stop smoking pot or stop drinking and then you you're getting more more complex cases and people have been struggling to conceive for longer and longer and now that means their methylation has been glitchy for longer and longer digestion has been and the body has been compensating and so on and so forth but it's the we do what we do because we want to get people results and I have a patient who she basically got pregnant right as we were getting old

Mm-hmm.

the results back. So nothing I did to help her get pregnant because obviously it's like we just started testing. But the benefit of having all of that testing when she got pregnant was actually how do we support this and make sure that it's a viable pregnancy? And she was one of those where her methylation was very glitchy and we were concerned about her nutrients when she started. So we had to start her on pretty high level nutrients and we obviously worked up to that. And we had to introduce progesterone in the second half of

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

of the cycle in the second trimester because first trimester it was okay, but then it didn't keep rising and I'm like, I'm concerned about the baby's neurological development and then we retested her methylation so we could see what was happening because there's such a big portion methylation that happens in the second trimester that most people don't know about. It's like we test because our goal is to have a healthy baby, not so we can dismiss you at week eight. In methylation, the genetics are not gonna change.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So when the woman becomes pregnant now, we know where is she going to need the most support. And when we know the males, we can kind of see like, what is the baby going to pick up, you know, and how can we create this, curate this perfect environment for things to be working well or as well as we can. And that's where the nutrients are going to come in, in the liver, in the sleep, in the, you know, the digestion. But yeah, it's like we test because we want to.

Mm-hmm.

It's not just getting you pregnant. It's a lot deeper than that.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, methylation is really impactful for implantation in the first few weeks. And when we see that recurrent loss and miscarriage in the first few weeks of the cycle, looking back at that, methylation is going to tell you a lot about why.

Yeah, that's a whole other can of worms, but like honestly, the recurrent pregnancy loss, if it's before week like six, you always have to look at methylation. And in my opinion, you're always looking at methylation anyways. And when you see, I will never say never because you see people get pregnant in all kinds of inflammatory chronic states, you know? But is that gonna be a good pregnancy? Is that gonna be?

Mm-hmm.

A healthy child, I don't know. Now you're more concerned about things because it's like, this is really inflamed. And it's still, I'm just gonna support my patients the best that I can because I know things are messy. They're not super straightforward. But having these details of the data helps us manage those things a lot better.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, thank you for picking such an invigorating topic. Hopefully people understand that we can get away from this like empty HFR or I just got my folate or I just tested my homocysteine. So I'm good. And we can continue this conversation because I know I'm still learning so much about it every time I watch a new lecture and like, another piece. And I know Dr. Nicole is nerding out. She was nerding out this weekend.

Yes!

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

on methylation and drawing it out. And it's like, yes, there's so much more to it. And we'll continue to share it as we learn more.

Yes.

Absolutely.

Thanks so much for being here, you guys, and we'll see you next week.