A podcast with a thousand listeners makes about a hundred and forty-four dollars a month.

I checked that properly.

So then I say the second thing, which is the bit that makes people go quiet. You don't want a hundred and forty-four dollars a month. You want one thousand four hundred and forty-four. And the way you get there is by not doing ads.

In this episode:

— Why the hundred and forty-four dollar figure is right, and why that's the problem

— The only lever CPM gives you, and where it leads

— The arithmetic that made me laugh

— What renting your mid-roll actually costs you

— My affiliate disclosure, said out loud, because this episode demands it

— One thing to do this week that takes sixty seconds of 'tape'

Tools I use and get paid to mention.

I record on Boomcaster, edit in Descript most weeks, and Captivate hosts this show.

Affiliate links below — I earn a commission at no extra cost to you. I'm telling you because the whole episode is about people who don't.

— Boomcaster: https://www.boomcaster.com/?ref=AzyWVAUu8UgsoCAZT (free trial + 50% off first three months)

— Descript: https://descript.cello.so/Kct9xUy3ilR (50% off first two months)

— Captivate: https://www.captivate.fm/signup?ref=nealveglio

The Podmastery Community is open soon.

Come and join us: https://podmastery.co/podcasting-community

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Podmastery: Podcasting Insights is my podcast for people who've actually had a go at this and are a bit sick of being told they're doing it wrong by people who've never properly done it at all. I'm Neal Veglio, the Podmaster.

A podcast with 1,000 listeners makes about $144 per month.

That's not a guess.

I went and checked it properly.

Two ad slots an episode, four episodes, the going rate, $144.

And every time I say that to somebody, they deflate a little bit.

You can hear it in the voice.

So then I say the second thing, which is the bit that makes them go a bit quiet.

You don't want $144 a month.

You want 1,444, and the way you get there isn't by doing ads

This is Podmastery Podcasting Insights.

I'm Neal Veglio, three decades in audio, most of that time in podcasting, and I've

spent a fair bit of that watching people work extremely hard for $144 per month

Let me be really clear about that first $144 per month number,

'cause I'm not here to crap on it.

$144 It's an honest number.

If you got 1,000 downloads an episode and you switch on automated ads, that

is roughly what will probably show up.

The problem isn't that that number's small, the problem is what it does to

you, because once that number exists, you know exactly what to do to make it bigger.

You get more downloads.

That's the only movement there is.

CPM, which is the model that this whole ad thing is based

on, is a multiplication table.

Audience times rate, and the rate isn't yours to move, so you're

left pushing on the audience.

So how much audience?

To get from 144 to 1,444 with ads, you need 10 times the show you've

got, 10,000 downloads an episode.

That's not a small step, is it?

That's a completely different podcast three years from now, if it even works.

And for those three years, every single decision you make gets a little bit bent

towards reach, so you go broader topics, bigger name guests maybe, titles that

could belong to anybody, and probably do.

All of it's perfectly sensible, and all of it's aimed at the only

bit of leverage that you've got.

And at the end of it, if you even make it, you've built a general interest

show, which, and this is the joke the industry never tells you, is the kind that

advertisers usually pay the least for.

You'll have spent three years making yourself cheaper

now let me talk you through the other route.

Now I want you to really understand the arithmetic on this one because when

you hear it, you'll actually laugh.

$1,444 a month from one person.

One person paying you for your expertise, irregardless of how many downloads

you have and what your CPM rate is.

Your knowledge to them is worth $1,444 a month.

So $144 a month from 1,000 people or $1,444 a month from

one You don't need to grow.

You just need more people who are willing to pay you for your expertise.

And to get one of those people to buy from you, not a thousand, one

So if what you do is worth more than $144 a month, if you're a consultant, a

coach, somebody that founded an agency, anyone with a proper price on your time,

you need to get a price tag And you need to give that price tag to one person

out of the thousand you already have.

In other words, 0.1% of your audience

And here's where it's gonna get a bit awkward.

I'm gonna get you to understand this rather than rush past it.

The mid-roll is the most valuable 60 seconds that you currently own.

It's the moment somebody has committed to your episode.

They're all in.

They're not gonna go anywhere unless you do something completely stupid

and kick them out your episode.

Every advertiser in the industry knows it, which is why it's the

slot that costs the most money.

And the offer on the table is that you rent that out for $18 CPM.

$18 for the only place in your entire operation where 1,000 people who

like you are paying attention, and one of those might give you money.

So that's the trade here.

Not should I take ads?

That you're selling the one piece of ground from which you could

have made any cash from those who respect what you actually do.

And the thing is, most podcasters take it quite cheerfully

because it's money in the bank

But here's where we need to talk about a caveat because otherwise I'm

a complete hypocrite and you'd be well within your rights to say so to my face.

I take money for things.

I talk about Boomcaster and Descript and Captivate on this show, and

I get paid for some of that.

The difference, and I think this is a real difference, though you're

welcome to disagree, is that I use all three of those every single week.

I mentioned this on the previous episode.

I'd name them for nothing, and not one of those is sitting in a slot where I'd

otherwise be talking about my own work.

An endorsement of something you genuinely use is not the same animal as renting

your mid-roll out to a network or to MeUndies or to BetterHelp for $18.

One of those is you talking, the other is you getting out of your own way

And I'm not saying that ads never work.

At 20,000 downloads an episode, the math turns completely opposite

direction and starts making sense.

This is about the stage you're at, not about advertising being sucky.

But here's the thing I keep talking about, and it's got nothing to do with money.

Almost every podcaster I meet would rather advertise somebody

else's product than their own.

They'll happily read 60 seconds about a mattress with some genuine warmth, real

enthusiasm, lovely read as well, and then they'll get to the end of their own

episode and say, "Anyway, if you wanna work with me, the link's in the episode

description. No pressure," in a voice like they're actually apologizing for existing

and daring to tell you about what they do.

' Cause reading someone else's ad is a job.

Somebody's asked you to do it, and they've given you money for

it, and you've sent an invoice.

Reading your own is a claim.

It's you saying out loud to 1,000 people, " I think this is worth your

money." And that's the actual barrier.

It was never the download count.

Right, after this short break, I'd love to play you a podcast trailer from one

of our Podmastery community members.

The doors are about to be open, and if you'd like to come in, go to

podmastery.co/podcasting-community.

And if you fancy hearing your own work in that slot, you know where the link is.

So here's the one thing I want you to do this week.

Write a 60-second ad for your own thing.

Record it properly, put some nice music behind it, and put it in the

middle slot of your next episode.

Not the outro.

Everyone puts it in the outro.

The outro is where things just die.

They get ignored, along with the end credits that you might slot in and the

plinky plonky piano music you insist on everyone hearing because you picked it out

and it totally demonstrates your taste.

Put it in the middle, the expensive bit, the slot you'd have sold for $18.

Read it like you'd read a sponsor's copy, because you would, wouldn't you?

You'd give a stranger's mattress your best work.

Give yourself the same.

And if writing that ad turns out to be tough, it's not a

problem with the exercise.

That's a finding.

If you can't say in 60 seconds what you do and who it's for, then 10 people

were never gonna buy it, and no amount of downloads was ever gonna fix that.

60 seconds talking about your own thing right there slap bang

in the middle, and that's it.

And if you want a hand working out what goes in those 60

seconds, that's a conversation I have with a lot of podcasters.

So go and have a look at podmastery.co, find the contact form, and let me

help you do the rest I'm Neal Veglio.

Go write your own ad and good luck with your continuing journey

towards attaining podmastery