What if being kinder to yourself doesn't make you less ambitious — but helps you work, recover and live more sustainably?

In this episode of People Soup, I talk to Dr Amanda Super, an occupational and coaching psychologist, author and founder of Creating Compassion. Amanda specialises in self-compassion and compassionate leadership, working with organisations across the public, private and not-for-profit sectors.

Amanda's own journey into this work is fascinating.

At 19, she had flunked her A-levels and was struggling with her confidence. Psychological support helped change the trajectory of her life. Years later, when she became seriously unwell and needed major surgery, a nurse pointed out something Amanda hadn't recognised herself:

"You're being very hard on yourself."

That moment led Amanda to discover self-compassion — and ultimately changed both her personal life and professional direction.

In our conversation, we explore:

• What self-compassion actually means — and what it doesn't mean
• Why we're often caught between threat and drive, with too little access to recovery and soothing
• How workplace culture can reinforce perfectionism, productivity and the pressure to keep going
• The three elements of self-compassion: mindfulness, common humanity and self-kindness
• Whether it's possible to be ambitious and self-compassionate at the same time
• How self-compassion can help us develop healthier boundaries
• What Amanda means by fierce self-compassion
• The costs of constantly criticising ourselves
• Amanda's practical RAIN exercise for difficult moments
• Why recovery is productive
• And why self-compassion might simply give us permission to include ourselves as well as everybody else.

There's also a lovely conversation about Amanda's choice of walk-on music, Here Comes the Sun by The Beatles — a song that reminds her of her grandmother and represents the movement from darkness towards warmth, hope and light.

A practical idea from Amanda

When you notice you're having a strong emotional response to something, pause and ask:

What do I need right now?

Amanda also introduces RAIN:

R — Recognise what's happening

A — Allow the feeling to be present

I — Investigate what's triggered the response

N — Natural awareness

And then, in Amanda's self-compassionate version:

Recognise that anyone would find this difficult, and ask,

How can I be kind to myself right now?

She also leaves us with a simple reminder, recovery can be productive.

People Soup: Real conversations about work, leadership, and being human — grounded in behavioural science, with practical ideas you can actually use.

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• Connect with Amanda on LinkedIn
• About Amanda's book - "A Year of Self-Compassion: Finding Care, Connection and Calm in Our Challenging Times"
• Amanda's website

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Visit Ross' Website.

Connect with Ross on LinkedIn

People Soup on Instagram which also features plenty of Ross' photos of the Andalusian life.

Amanda Super

[00:00:11] I'm Ross McIntosh, and in this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Amanda Super, an occupational and coaching psychologist, author, [00:00:20] and founder of Creating Compassion Amanda specializes in self-compassion and compassionate leadership, working with organizations across the public, private, [00:00:30] and not-for-profit sectors Amanda's work asks an important question. What happens when we stop treating ourselves as the person who can always cope, always [00:00:40] perform, and always keep going

[00:01:04] How I found psychology

[00:01:20] I'd had a lot of challenges as well to deal with, and my confidence was really low. And I was really fortunate enough to receive some psychological support [00:01:30] at the time, and looking back, that support changed the trajectory of my life, actually. It helped me rebuild some confidence in myself and in my [00:01:40] academic ability, and I completed an access course to higher education, around my 19th birthday, and then started a psychology degree in [00:01:50] 1993.

[00:02:09] [00:02:10] And I really remember that particular tutor, Professor Nicola Rumsey. she's still practicing a little bit now. She was absolutely pivotal [00:02:20] to the reason I chose the university I did and went there to do my undergrad. But through my undergrad, um, degree, I was working [00:02:30] in a corporate environment simultaneously to support myself through, my studies, and I ended up working in training and development, and, really [00:02:40] enjoyed it actually in lots of ways, and continued to do that after I graduated as well.

[00:03:18] and I wanted to make a [00:03:20] difference, I guess, to people's working lives, because workplaces have an enormous power to either support people to thrive or contribute to their [00:03:30] distress, actually. So I decided, having had a number of years of work experience under my belt, to complete a master's in occupational [00:03:40] psychology.

[00:04:04] Okay, yes, the theories are important, uh, don't get me wrong, but actually how does this work in real life for [00:04:10] people? That was the bit that interested me, and that's never changed actually. I met my husband and later had my son. I submitted my [00:04:20] chartership as an occupational psychologist whilst heavily pregnant with my son, and was awarded chartership, in 2009.

[00:04:50] I've been in business for 17 years. across healthcare, higher education, policing, finance, professional services, technology, and the public [00:05:00] sector. And I'm, to be honest, so grateful really to have worked with brilliant commissioners and wonderful clients who genuinely care about the people who [00:05:10] work in their organizations.

[00:05:12] Ross: Gosh. Thank you, Amanda. Now, I just wanna take you back, 'cause you, you're very open in sharing that you, you'd flunked your A-levels, I think was the way- I did

[00:05:20] Amanda: I did.

[00:05:29] Amanda: [00:05:30] Mm ... "

[00:05:34] Amanda: And it's very easy to feel like that, isn't it? And I, I, it, I, I felt like that to me at the time as well, [00:05:40] quite honestly.

[00:05:58] Because when I first applied [00:06:00] to university, I was applying for law, not psychology. So had things gone differently, I had, hoped to be a family solicitor, actually. what would I say to somebody [00:06:10] whose, A-levels haven't been quite what they might have hoped, is that they don't define us, and they don't define the trajectory of our lives either.

[00:07:00] And, These letters on a piece of paper don't define us, is what I would say. And if you haven't done well, there are [00:07:10] opportunities to try again, and maybe opportunities to do something differently rather than A levels. A levels are really hard, by the way. I found [00:07:20] A levels harder than doing a doctorate, let me tell you. I Some of us are not in the best frame of mind at that time. I've been blown away by my own two kids and how well they've done [00:07:30] in their A levels, and are continuing to. My son's actually just in his first year of A level, but, you know, they're doing exceptionally well.

[00:07:39] [00:07:40] And similarly, when I did my access course to higher education, that I was so pleased they let me in, and I, I finished with the highest credits they'd ever had on that course [00:07:50] before.

[00:08:15] It was, it was truly a a complete life-changing experience, that [00:08:20] access course to higher education.

[00:08:31] Amanda: It was. It was. A turning point for me was around 15 years ago- Right ... when I became really quite unwell and needed major [00:08:40] surgery, and for the first time in a long time, I was forced to stop. during my recovery, a nurse that was caring for me, because I was struggling with the fact that I [00:08:50] had a young family that I wasn't able to care for, I had my own consultancy and a job that I wasn't able to do, I'd had to farm out various consultancy jobs to [00:09:00] associates, which at the time I wasn't that comfortable with.

[00:09:24] You know, have you ever read anything about self-compassion?" And I thought, "Do you know, I'm sure I've got a book called Self-Compassion [00:09:30] on my bookshelf," but of course I'd never made time to read it, had I, Ross? You know, I was always too busy trying to be all things to all people at all times. and paying quite a significant [00:09:40] price myself for that.

[00:09:59] I was [00:10:00] back in work after eight months, and although I was physically not yet 100%, psychologically I felt better than I had done at any point of my adult life as a direct [00:10:10] result of practicing the principles of self-compassion.

[00:10:37] I put myself last all the time. I [00:10:40] rarely recognized my own needs physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually. I was a terrible people pleaser. I had very poor [00:10:50] boundaries. I overworked professionally and personally actually. I invested heavily in relationships and friendships that were not always [00:11:00] reciprocated.

[00:11:23] but what struck me most was that I'd spent years offering compassion, encouragement, and support [00:11:30] to other people, while rarely extending the same kindness to myself. And self-compassion gave me permission to include myself as well as everybody [00:11:40] else.

[00:11:46]

[00:12:05] Amanda: Well, I do my best. I'm not saying I do it perfectly. I don't think the end goal is to think, "Oh, I'm [00:12:10] so self-compassionate in every situation," 'cause that's not feasible or reasonable or possible. Mm. But I notice quicker. Yes. I put steps in place to support myself, [00:12:20] having better boundaries, It's basically self-compassion is a proactive mechanism to cope with the challenges of life, which we will all encounter. Mm. I [00:12:30] remember reading, um, Scott Peck when I was a student, undergrad student, in, um, The Road Less Traveled. The first line of that book is, "Life is [00:12:40] difficult. Once we accept that fact, it gets a lot easier."

[00:13:02] We're primed for that. You know, we're social beings. We live in groups- Mm ... for a reason. We have to connect with others, but we often [00:13:10] neglect ourselves, often when we're struggling, actually, and need compassion the most. Now, it isn't our fault we do that, but it is our problem. Mm. And there are things that we can [00:13:20] do about it

[00:13:21] Ross: I wonder if now is the time just to talk about the, the Paul Gilbert model, Of course, of course.

[00:13:41] Threat System

[00:13:52] And we need a threat system, because otherwise we might just step out into the road and not look both ways first. [00:14:00] However, for many of us, we are hypervigilant for threat, I think, in the current time, at the current place, in the current workplace. So this is all about [00:14:10] anxiety, fear, self-criticism, whether we go into fight, flight, or freeze.

[00:14:20] Drive System

[00:14:33] and we need a drive system, otherwise we might be tempted to lie on the couch all day, watch Loose Women, and eat [00:14:40] crisps. And after a while- ... we'd find that pretty boring. So, the challenge is, though, many of us in overdrive a lot of the time. we are [00:14:50] constantly striving. It's all about performance.

[00:14:57] Soothing System

[00:15:17] And we spend, like I say, a lot of our times [00:15:20] like the ball in a pinball machine, just jumping between drive and threat, drive and threat, with very little access to the soothing system, particularly in our working lives.

[00:15:49] And what we [00:15:50] see from the research is that self-compassion's associated with higher performance standards, less procrastination, better decision-making, higher levels of [00:16:00] motivation and engagement, more creativity and innovation, better team working and relationships, both at work and at home actually. And in fact, I was only [00:16:10] just reading before we came on the call today about the World Economic Forum's 2025 Future of Jobs Report that was saying that by 2035, [00:16:20] in the age of AI, the three skills that are gonna be in demand for the future that AI cannot replicate are [00:16:30] communication, problem-solving, and creative thinking.

[00:16:55] Ross: And many people don't even know about the, according to the model, the soothing [00:17:00] system.

[00:17:04] We have very few role models.

[00:17:50] And social media amplifies all these unrealistic expectations too.

[00:18:09] Amanda: our worth is only [00:18:10] as, much as how busy we are. You know, we glorify- Yeah ... the busy, don't we? Whereas actually, regular pauses through our busy working days [00:18:20] where we can just ground ourselves, think, "How am I feeling right now? What do I need right now?" It might be a glass of water, it might be to get up from our screens, [00:18:30] it might be to connect with a colleague, it might be to go and have five minutes fresh air.

[00:18:57] Whaat concerns you in the workplace

[00:19:01] Amanda: Yeah, I think there's a lot to be concerned about actually. , Workplaces really have to be very cognizant of [00:19:10] the humanity of their people.

[00:19:55] Ross: I love this idea that we're all role modeling for each other, this self-compassion.

[00:20:21] What is self compassion

[00:20:39] MIndfulness

[00:21:07] Common Humanity

[00:21:21] "Why does that always happen to me? Why is this happening to me again?" But the fact of the matter is that that makes our difficulties even [00:21:30] harder. but there will be millions of other people around the world experiencing exactly what we're experiencing, even if we don't know them.

[00:21:38] Amanda: And then finally, the third core [00:21:40] component is self-kindness, how we can be more supportive and understanding towards ourselves when we're having a hard time, when we're struggling with something, when we hit a bump in the [00:21:50] road, rather than being harshly self-critical. Because how we speak to ourselves and how we treat ourselves is so important.

[00:22:33] And if we can do those things for ourselves, we will offer others, both at work and [00:22:40] at home, more authentic and sustainable compassion

[00:22:44] Ross: And if someone said to you, "Amanda, look, is it possible for me to be [00:22:50] ambitious and self-compassionate at the same time?" What would you say to them?

[00:23:14] I'd ju- not long moved back to Manchester, had fam- illness in the family. There were, there were lots of other [00:23:20] things going on. I did it in one year, full-time. It was full-on and really challenging. But I came out of that th- saying, "I am never, ever going to do anything like that again." That nearly finished me [00:23:30] off.

[00:23:40] I came out level, fine, ambitious, still wanting to keep going, not depleted, not burnt out, not [00:23:50] upset in any way. I knew that I'd done the best I could with what I had. It wasn't perfect. Nothing I do will ever be perfect, but I'll give everything my best [00:24:00] shot with what I've got at the time and, and that's good enough, and it's really liberating to have that approach, I have to say.

[00:24:24] Find three things. What could have gone better? But don't dwell on it. Just [00:24:30] take the learning.

[00:24:31] Amanda: And by that, I mean, if I was faced with that situation again tomorrow, Ross, what would I do differently, if anything? And then finally, things that I'm grateful for.[00:24:40]

[00:25:06] If anything, I think self-compassion helped fuel me write a book, [00:25:10] which I did. and published it in 2015, which is the reflective guide to developing self-compassion over the course of a year. It supported me through [00:25:20] various challenges that, you know, we all have to encounter as just part of human life.

[00:25:51] Mm. You know? It's finding that balance, isn't it, across all the realms of our lives. That's what's important, I think. [00:26:00] Mm. And I do like to have a decent book and a good jigsaw on the go as well, 'cause they really encourage me to stop working and read or just spend 20 [00:26:10] minutes figuring out a particular part of a puzzle.

[00:26:32] Ross: and as we said, you won't always live this perfectly, but you really live what you- Oh,

[00:26:37] Ross: won't be perfect ... what you, what you share with [00:26:40] organizations. Well- You really are this wonderful role model for us.

[00:26:50] You know, Look, I'm 54 now, I'm not a spring chicken, you know. I think the thing is is I don't beat myself up with it if it's not bang on the money every day. [00:27:00] It's the best I can do. I think one of the most liberating aspects of this approach is it, it gives us permission to be human beings doing the best we can with what we've got at the time, [00:27:10] and recognizing that we are enough and that is enough

[00:27:15] Fierce Self Compassion and boundaries

[00:27:22] Amanda: please. Mm. Well, I loved it when Kristin Neff started talking about fierce self-compassion, because actually I'd been doing it already, and I think many [00:27:30] of us do when we start to develop self-compassion.

[00:27:55] But we also need the protection, [00:28:00] the safety, and the motivation to- Protect ourselves, say no, speak up, make [00:28:10] changes, live according to our values. As our self-compassion increases, our ability to set boundaries increases as well. In fact, I would [00:28:20] go so far as to say that Boundary setting is a radical act of self-compassion So it might not be that we say no, but we say, "Do you know what? I'm really sorry, I can't [00:28:30] do that yet, but maybe I can look at it next week." So we include ourselves in our circle of compassion, Ross, not Trying to be all things to all people at all [00:28:40] times and paying that price for ourselves. Sometimes the most self-compassionate thing we can do is set a boundary

[00:28:47] Ross: what are the costs of not being [00:28:50] self-compassionate?

[00:28:54] That we can over identify with our thoughts and feelings, and that can take us- Mm ... into lots [00:29:00] of different places. It's also, when we're not self-compassionate, we don't allow our feelings to be present. We avoid them, we deny them usually with, and distract ourselves from [00:29:10] them usually with maladaptive coping mechanisms, you know?

[00:29:34] Oh, I'm feeling stressed, upset, anxious- Mm ... et cetera. [00:29:40] That's okay, anybody would find that hard. How can I be kind to myself right now? So if we don't have that ability to comfort and support ourselves through the [00:29:50] challenging thoughts and feelings we will all have through life, then it feels quite hard to live.

[00:30:20] You know? Mm. Berating ourselves for being human, for doing the best we could with what we had, you know? And that to me, just describing it to you [00:30:30] now, Ross, sounds such a painful place to be.

[00:30:41] Ross: you're giving me goosebumps. It really makes me think and feel for people who are potentially in that place. if you had a, [00:30:50] a takeaway for our listeners, our listeners love a practical takeaway.

[00:30:56] Ross: Is there anything you'd, you'd share with the P supers?

[00:31:02] One I've already shared, which was those pauses to think about, what do I need right now? What [00:31:10] would be good for me? How can I support myself through this? Any time you notice you're having a strong emotional response to something, or you're [00:31:20] finding something difficult or overwhelming, just think, "What do I need right now?"

[00:31:45] So the R is about recognizing. Recognize how we feel. "Oof, [00:31:50] this feels hard. Ooh, I'm feeling very stressed by this." Before we go to the A, take a couple of nice deep breaths [00:32:00] And then now allow the feeling to be present exactly as it is

[00:32:24] Ross: Mm ...

[00:32:34] It means recognizing what we're thinking and feeling in the present moment without judgment. [00:32:40] And that gets us there. Recognizing, allowing, investigating, to the natural awareness. Now, because I advocate a self-compassionate [00:32:50] approach, what I would also encourage is that you tag on the other two elements too.

[00:33:12] So I use that exercise probably two or three times a day.

[00:33:42] Recovery is productive. self-compassion isn't just something we think. we actually [00:33:50] have to act, and I think looking after some of the basics of our physical wellbeing are really important. And as our [00:34:00] self-compassion increases, our self-care and emotional resilience increase as well.

[00:34:22] Wish I could do it more. So you say I'm a role model, but I don't do that, Ross. I don't stand up for five minutes every hour. Definitely not. I'm gonna [00:34:30] try, though, to do it a little bit more. Exercise in ways we enjoy, have and make time to reflect, to just be present, to be. I'm a bit of a lover in [00:34:40] being, trying to be bored And just allowing myself to be bored for a minute and just seeing what comes up rather than having to fill every moment with [00:34:50] stuff. And then switching off, not just when we're on annual leave, but h- doing something we really enjoy at least once a day, whatever that might be.[00:35:00]

[00:35:15]

[00:35:25] Amanda: Okay. Well, and can I just clarify that I'm not sure the song that I've [00:35:30] chosen would announce my arrival in a room.

[00:36:08] And the song always fills my [00:36:10] heart with hope, and I guess that was what I was hoping to share with your listeners. And learning to practice self-compassion has been, and continues to be, life-changing for [00:36:20] me and many others too, but I think most of all it, it offers me hope

[00:36:27] Ross: Amanda, thank you deeply [00:36:30] from the bottom of my heart for joining me and for engaging in this captivating conversation. I've really valued your [00:36:40] reflections and your wisdom and your humanity and your role modeling, which will never be perfect. I absolutely see that and appreciate what you're doing in [00:36:50] bringing this to more people.

[00:37:08] Speaker: P. Supers, that's it. [00:37:10] My conversation with Dr. Amanda Super in the bag

[00:37:28] You'll also find information [00:37:30] about Amanda's book, A Year of Self-Compassion, which has been described by Professor Michael West as a wise and kind seedbed for the growth [00:37:40] of compassion. And as you've heard from Amanda, her website reflects that same generosity in bringing compassion to the workplace

[00:38:10] As ever, thanks for listening and thanks for sharing People Soup with others. You're helping us bring evidence-based ideas about work, leadership, and being human to [00:38:20] more people. Until next time, look after yourselves, Peace Soupers, and bye for now