Consultancy and systemic change in private practice with Dr Laura Bennet

Welcome to the Business of Psychology podcast. Today I'm joined by Dr Laura Bennett, a clinical psychologist with over 20 years of experience supporting children, young people, and their families through some of life's most complex challenges.

Since qualifying in 2009, Laura has worked across a range of NHS services, before founding Oasis Psychology in Dorset in 2022. Her practice is a really good example of a specialist service, as Laura specialises in supporting children who are in care, those who have been adopted, and families on the edge of care, focusing deeply on developmental trauma and attachment, and most importantly, supporting the system around the child.

Today we are looking at Laura's work beyond the therapy room. Many psychologists and therapists worry that moving into private practice means narrowing their scope to just one-to-one clinical hours. Laura is proving the opposite. She's currently spearheading the Parenting with Trauma Project in collaboration with Dorset Action for Children and Bournemouth University. It's clear from Laura's journey that she's never really stopped at the therapy room and has been working with systems and research and data. So I know that you're going to find her story really interesting, and hopefully inspirational if you are somebody who wants to do a little bit more, or different from therapy in your work.

Full show notes and a transcript of this episode are available at The Business of Psychology

Links for Laura:

LinkedIn: Dr Laura Bennet

Oasis Psychology

Links for Rosie:

Substack: substack.com/@drrosie

Rosie on Instagram:

@rosiegilderthorp

@drrosiegilderthorp

The highlights

• Laura tells us about her transition into private practice after 13 years in the NHS 01:57
• Laura talks about what she provides through her private practice, Oasis Psychology 5:21
• Laura discusses how she transitioned into a service that’s less focused on one-to-one work, and more about indirect support. 7:04
• I ask Laura about her work with Action for Children 21:42
• Laura gives us her advice for psychologists and therapists who have an idea for a different type of project, but feel a bit stuck 36:37
• Laura tells us the best place to connect with her 47:34

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Speakers:

Rosie Gilderthorp, Laura Bennet

Hello and welcome to the Business of Psychology. Today I'm joined by Dr Laura Bennett, a clinical psychologist with over 20 years of experience supporting children, young people, and their families through some of life's most complex challenges. Since qualifying in 2009, Laura has worked across a range of NHS services

So today we are looking at Laura's work beyond the therapy room. Many psychologists and therapists worry that moving into private practice means narrowing their scope to just one-to-one clinical hours. Laura is proving the opposite. She's currently spearheading the Parenting with Trauma Project in collaboration with Dorset Action for Children and Bournemouth University.

But it's clear from Laura's journey that she's never really stopped at the therapy room and has been working with systems and research and data. So I know that you're gonna find her story really interesting and hopefully inspirational if you are somebody who wants to do a little bit more or different from therapy in your work.

So let's head to the interview with Laura.

Hello, Laura. I'm so pleased to have you on the Business of Psychology today.

Hi, Rosie. It's lovely to be here.

So could you start by telling us a bit about your transition into private practice in the first place? Because I think you did 13 years in the NHS before you founded Oasis Psychology. So tell me a bit about what the vision was that pushed you into private work?

Absolutely. So, you know, when I, when I trained as a psychologist, it was very much to work within the NHS and that was kind of my vision at the time, and actually, you know, when I made that transition, I was working within a, um... well, I was employed by the NHS, but I was sat within a social care team.

And this was, this is kind of my ideal role actually at this time. I was embedded in the team, I was really working holistically supporting social workers, supporting carers, really able to offer the kind of support I wanted to offer. And then there was kind of a double whammy of Covid. Covid turned up and all of a sudden, uh, you know, we were no longer sat in the office together, but everyone was in their separate spaces, and at the same time, the local authority decided to restructure, and as part of that restructure, they took the team that I was embedded in and they split it into 13 different teams.

And within that restructure, they kind of forgot about me. And I ended up working across all 13 teams, still trying to do the same job, and also didn't have any management structure in place. They were basically kind of like, oh, we don't really know what to do with you. Uh, maybe this person could manage you, oh, but they don't oversee these teams. And it just became a really, really difficult job to do. And I started to feel quite isolated. I was working in a permanence team, so as children who were in care with foster carers, actually Covid saw a massive increase in the number of children coming into care. So, there was a huge amount of kind of increase in work, and it just became really, really stressful and really isolating, and I felt like I was, you know, there were gaping wounds and all I had was a sticking plaster to put on top of them. And I just thought, you know what, this isn't, this isn't my vision, this isn't what I signed up for. And so I kind of took the leap, and I just went for it. And I didn't really have much of a plan, but I think I'd just reached that point where I'd had enough and, yeah, kind of went, set up Oasis Psychology to try and replicate what I hadn't been able to provide in the NHS.

Yeah, so it came from, I suppose, two things, it sounds like. Feeling really undervalued, I mean, forgotten about, that's, that's horrible. It sounds like a really, really difficult experience, but also, it doesn't sound like an ideal way of getting the job of a psychologist done either being spread across 13 different teams, nobody quite knowing where you fit. I, yeah, I did a locum job that was a bit like that and didn't last long, so I can understand how unpleasant that would be. But it's not just unpleasant, is it? It's also unfulfilling because you are not, you're not providing the service you want to provide. So tell me a bit about what you started to provide through Oasis Psychology?

So when I, when I decided to kind of leave the NHS and, and go it alone, I really wanted to create a kind of service that could really meet the needs of children in care primarily. And, it was about a holistic service who actually, whereas in the NHS I might do an assessment and provide all these recommendations, none of which there'd been any money for, and then it'd feel a bit kind of pointless of having completed that assessment, I wanted to be able to offer the assessment and then go, and this is the support that these children need, so let's provide that for them. And I was hoping, you know, I had really grand plans in the beginning to be able to create a multidisciplinary team that offered all the, the kind of different therapeutic elements from individual work all the way through to the kind of more consultative, reflective practice type work because actually we know that supporting children who have complex trauma, who have attachment need, it has to be a systemic approach to working with them. So that was the vision, and I was kind of lucky enough that the adoption of support fund had a chunk of money for children who'd been adopted, so there was, there was a kind of pot of work waiting for me, which made that transition that little bit easier. And so that's kind of where I, where I started really. And then over time as happens, things have kind of transitioned into a service that is maybe less focused on that direct bit with, with children and is more about the indirect support.

And why did that transition come about?

So I think initially and there, you know, there is still a kind of drive that actually you've got children in care, they need therapy. And so very often the work that is being sourced is being commissioned by the local authorities, by the Adoption Support Fund is about direct work for children and so, you know, that that was what was landing at my door. And actually it felt really refreshing in the beginning to be able to say, yes, yeah, I can take that, I don't have a waiting list. Come on, come on in, because that's so rare. And so I took the work on, and actually I soon realised that I was actually just replicating an NHS service, you know, where I was taking on too much, too intense, individual work. And actually with each piece of individual work was coming, all the complications of, well, actually this child's not engaging because they don't feel safe within their family home. So now we need to put some, some parenting work in. And actually now when we look at the system, this system isn't working for this child. So actually they need educational support as well, and they need the social workers to be understanding why they have all these. And I started to, to remember actually, that was what I loved about my NHS job when I first took it, it wasn't about sitting in a room with a single client, it was about actually connecting with the professionals, formulating over the kettle, because actually we'd been stood in the kitchen together and they'd gone, oh, Laura, while you are here. And actually, then we could think about what child really needed. And I wanted to, you know, over time I've tried to bring some of that back into my practice as well as, as having a bit of a reality check that, you know, I am a mum, I don't work full time, life is busy, and actually the type of individual work I was doing was really intensive and you know, I needed to take a bit of a step back from that as well, so.

Yeah. And often the two things do come together that there's a realisation that the way we've always done things, or the way we've been sort of used to services looking, isn't necessarily optimal for the client and it's not optimal for the clinicians either. But changing that is quite brave. And I know because we were in coaching at the time as you were making that transition, I know that it did feel scary because the, the individual work felt kind of limitless. Yeah, like you could just, you know, you would never be struggling for work that way, but it was taking such a huge toll, it just couldn't carry on. Whereas it's a bit of a harder sell sometimes to explain why some systemic work would be more valuable.

So how did you start to kind of carve that out, where I know that there was a little bit of, maybe not resistance, but sort of reluctance at first?

Yeah. It felt really hard. And you know, we did, we talked about this, didn't we, about actually how, you know, when you're working with people who, in individual therapy with children with complex trauma can go on for years and years and years.

And so there was no easy stopping place. So to be able to kind of break some of those relationships, I found that really hard, and did feel like I was letting people down at times. So I did, I needed support from you, from other people to say, actually this is okay. And so that was kind of one part of the puzzle.

And also to know that I couldn't change things there and then, it was gonna be a slow journey. And actually that therapy needed to come to an actual end for some people. And it did, it took, it took over a year for me to move some clients on because that's what they needed. And actually I couldn't let go of those values, they're really important to me. But actually doing that gradually made it an easier process. And then it was about really starting to, to do something that felt really alien to me, but that was to sell my message and actually to start saying to people, if we're actually going to support these kids, there's a different way of doing it. And to not be afraid to kind of talk about that. You know, I was lucky that a couple of contracts with residential homes came along and actually that was for reflective practice, I have a lovely alternative education provider that I also support, with supervision and reflective practice. And so those things kind of allowed me and gave me, gave me kind of content, I suppose to be talking about, look, this is how this is working, and to really try and, and kind of talk about it to help people see.

You know, I think there was another kind of barrier for me, which is that actually, you know, you will know anyone working in the caring and health services knows we're not very good at giving ourselves time and space, not very good at looking after ourselves. And so actually, when you say to people, oh, you know, why don't you, why don't you take a, an hour a month to reflect and actually stop and think about what you're doing? It, that's can be quite a hard sell within social care, because actually it, they are so used to working in a reactive way and there's so many crises and they're so busy, so it's also about kind of shifting some of that mentality for people as well.

Yeah. No, I think it's really interesting using the word sell because I was writing something earlier today actually, about how psychologists in particular, we're always selling. If you think about every reluctant client you've ever had who's kind of been coerced into seeing you, I mean, you know, I worked in the prison service. Tons of people I've had in front of me who have been like, I wanna see a psychiatrist, I do not wanna see you. And I've managed to get their buy-in. That was the first thing I ever learned to do as a completely unqualified person in the prison service, the first thing I learned, they actually called it selling the skills. That was the training I went on. And that's, you know, that's what we do. And, and you've got, you've built up reputation and authority that has allowed you to, to do that. It's not really about persuasion, it's about showing people that we have something that they need, but it might look different to what they anticipated, but they can trust you because of the expertise that you've built up.

I think you're, you know, that's absolutely right. There's something about the word sell, isn't it, that almost has a negative connotation. But the reality is, you know, if every parent I saw did what I asked them to do, my job would be so easy. But actually the skill and the work that we do is about getting a parent to the point where they can do what we're asking them to do, you know? And that, that's the expertise really, isn't it? And so it was, I suppose it's just taking those skills that we have as psychologists as, you know, health professionals and using them slightly differently.

Exactly. And that you can make so much impact when you are able to do that.

And of course it does take time. I think it's great that, you know, you've mentioned that, that it isn't like, oh, I've changed my business model overnight, because often we can put that expectation on ourselves and then start to be really judgmental if, say, within three months, whatever arbitrary timeline we've put on it, we haven't made this complete pivot. But actually it's much more realistic to think it will be a slow transition, because it takes time for us to adjust what we are doing, it takes time to become known for a new service, a new business model, and it also takes the stakeholders time to think and, you know, learn enough from us that they feel confident to move forward. Plus all the complications of therapy relationships.

Yeah, and it is, I think for me, there was also something about actually as psychologists, we, yes, we are trained in individual therapy, but we're trained in so much more than that. And actually that's something I can offer that maybe other therapists don't.

So why wasn't I using those skills? Why was I using the ones that probably were, you know, I've said to people before where, you know, I've got a couple of associates who aren't psychologists, and they're like, oh no, we need a psychologist to do the individual work. And I've said, well, if it was me, I would not pick a psychologist, I'd pick this person whose, you know, core expertise is one-to-one work. That's not my core expertise. My expertise is much wider than that. So it was about actually reframing some of that and thinking it's okay to say, do you know what, this one-to-one work is really, you know, taking up so much of my emotional capacity, and that's okay to go and do something different, that doesn't mean I failed. It just means there's another, another way of working out there that I know I'm gonna be better at and I know is going to be, you know, probably more beneficial for the client group that I work with.

Yeah, I think if there's one thing that I would fix in training programs for psychologists, it would be getting more confident with what we actually are, rather than, because I think often people tell me that they leave training and just feel like they're a less good CBT therapist than the CBT therapists. And I felt like that, you know, I still feel like that often, actually, I can't claim I've completely moved out of that feeling.

But what I, you know, I also, I coach CBT therapists, I coach counselors, I coach people from all different disciplines, and I coach psychologists. And it's really helped me actually to see what the, the differences and the strengths of each different profession is, and I wish I'd had that insight earlier in my career because now, like you, I can much more confidently say, no, I think that you'd be better off with this specialist CBT therapist I have in my team, you know that they're gonna be able to do the CBT therapy that you want better than I could, a hundred percent. But I also feel confident in what I can do, which I don't think I did for years. So yeah, it's interesting how it can take us a while to get to that point, and we often do have to go through a bit of a crisis to, to get there. It's a shame.

Yeah. I think also maybe NHS services don't help with that because obviously they are, you know, so overrun that there's such a desperate need for therapists that psychologists are being pushed into that role and that was, you know, that was very much what happened. You know, I was really lucky in that last job that I had, that actually I was being given scope to not do that. But previously when I'd worked in CAMHS, when I'd worked in learning disability teams, actually the push was we've got these really complex cases, you need to do one-to-one therapy with them. Here is your long waiting list of people with significant trauma.

And actually, that's how, how I spent my time, and the wider role of being a psychologist was, was completely being lost. And I think, you know, it has taken me, what am I? I'm kind of three and a half years in to private practice now, and it's taken me that time to kind of go, oh yeah, this is, this is what I do as a psychologist and this is what I'm good at and this is how I feel happy working as well.

One thing, I mean, this might be controversial to say actually, to some people, but part of what helped me kind of connect more with the psychologist identity was actually getting involved in a BPS committee. I was on the special group for independent practitioners committee for several years.

And because that brings together psychologists of all different types, but all applied, I started to see more like what holds us together and what a psychologist is. So I would, I'd encourage people if, you know, if you feel like you're struggling with that, if you're struggling with your identity, then actually the BPS does have some good stuff. I think, you know, reading the articles in the magazine, going along to some SGIP events, SGIP's super affordable, and it does kind of give you that feeling of the wider role of psychology and the loads of different amazing ways that people are working, which I think really helps. And I'm sure you know if you are from a different area of work, so if you're a counselor or a therapist, I think those professional bodies also provide those kind of enriching spaces where you get to think about how your work could look different to maybe what you've experienced, particularly in kind of pressed public service where scope can be incredibly narrow.

Yeah, I think, you know, what you're talking about there, Rosie, is that wider connection, isn't it? That actually can become lost both in very, you know, overstretched NHS teams, but also in private practice when you, you know, you are defined by the referrals that are coming to you and actually it is about branching out, it's about, you know, meeting other people, it's about, you know, not becoming isolated. And there's so many different ways through different, you know, registered bodies and organizations that you, you can be getting that. And you know, actually one of the things for me was when I took on a couple of associates and just thinking, oh, oh, I'm back talking to psychologists, and I hadn't realised how much I'd missed that. You know, I'd been sat in NHS teams where I was the sole psychologist for a long time and then, you know, working on my own in independent practice. And I think it is really important whether they are psychologists of the same discipline or different disciplines, it really does give you something that you don't get otherwise.

Definitely. And actually that reminds me, one of the things I really wanted to talk to you about today was your work with Action for Children. Because I know, I think that predates Oasis Psychology, doesn't it? So that's been a long-term relationship for you.

Yeah, I kind of fell into it actually, Rosie. So, I was, I was working in the NHS, I had young children, I had no intention of doing anything alongside that. But my mum actually set up the kind of parenting support service, in Dorset with Action for Children and they were looking for a psychologist to run these two hour workshops about once a month, and knew that my mum had a psychologist daughter, so I agreed to kind of step in, not really being in a place to take that on, but actually I found it really rewarding. And again, you know, within an NHS role, there wasn't much scope for training, so it was, it was a really nice space to be in. I knew they were kind of free workshops for parents, and they were kind of the precursor to a longer term parenting course. So it felt, felt really good. And I did that for a long time until 2022 when I kind of set up Oasis Psychology and then that, that work just kind of continued. And it is slightly different to what I do through Oasis, because actually it's general parents, there's, there's no link to children in care or a kind of complex trauma. A lot of the parents coming do have children who have some level of neurodiversity. So it's a slightly different world to the one I'm used to being in. But actually whenever I run those sessions, I get so much value from it, and actually Action for Children are such a lovely group of people and a really nice charity to be, to be working with. So that, that kind of, that's how the work came about. And then actually over time, since I've been in independent practice, I've had much more scope to then work more widely with them. And actually they have really bought into this concept of supervision and reflective practice for their, their staff members, which has been really nice. It kind of feels like they're, they're coming on my journey a little bit with me. Yeah.

I guess it's another example, isn't it, of how you build up authority over time. And so slowly those messages that you want to share, they're easier for people to hear when they've seen you at work, they've benefited from working with you. So tell me a bit about what your work with them looks like now?

Yeah, so now, so I still run the two hour workshops, and I still really enjoy those. But I also now have a contract to offer management supervision and monthly reflective practice to their parent coaches who they have a... it's a text, online text service, so parents can text into it and they get parenting advice from the coaches. So there's one called Parent Talk and then there's one for children and young people, so actually that's called Sidekick, and so any parent can text into them. So they get all manner of things coming into them, it could be something from breastfeeding all the way through to, you know, dealing with suicidal ideation. So a real kind of wide scape. So really sensibly they were like, actually these coaches are dealing with a huge amount, they need some space, and so we've been able to put that in for them and they use it really well. And you know, to begin with I was a bit like, well, I don't know anything about breastfeeding, how am I gonna...?

And actually what I've realised is we're talking about exactly the same things. We're talking about how to engage parents. We're talking about giving parents space. We're talking about getting alongside them, giving, you know, most of the parents coming to the text service, they don't need breastfeeding advice, they need somebody to listen and hear just how difficult it is. And so that's been a really nice kind of support. So they put that in for the staff to begin with, they've now realised actually our managers need some supervision around this as well. So that's growing. We've done a bit of training for them as well.

And so that's been really, really nice to kind of grow that, create those links.

That's amazing. And I think it's a really nice example of you being able to do work which, and maybe it's not about growing the business, but it's about giving you something which, you know, fills up your cup as a professional.

Absolutely. And I think it's part of this journey that I've been on. It has been, you know, when you first start out, you get rid of your, you know, secure salary and suddenly you are like, oh my God, I've got to pay my mortgage at the end of this month. How, you know, how am I gonna do this every minute of my time, it links into, you know, to money, and it's a real shift. And I, you know, I think some of my focus was on that to begin with, and success was linked to, you know, how many paid hours I was working. But actually I've taken a real step back this year and thought, do you know what? There's so much more that matters. And really start to look at how I measure success and what is important for me. And actually what is important is all of the values I set out to, you know, originally, it's about building a service that feels useful and helpful to people. It's about doing work that is fulfilling for me, and it's about making connection and, you know, working in a way that is comfortable for me, it's about being a psychologist.

I think it's a really powerful reflection because you know so many of us, for one reason or another, we kind of fall into independent practice, maybe not in the best place we've ever been in. You know, probably people listening to this know my story, literally crashed out of the NHS 'cause it was an emergency and I was needed much more at home. And so I had to replace that salary as fast as I could, and I went at it with a lot of gusto. But it all came from this place of fear, like real fear. And I think, you know, it wasn't my story, I actually had an amazing NHS job, and which I'm very, very grateful for that experience, but a lot of people that I coach, that hasn't been the experience.

Maybe they've been in a service that has driven them into the ground and their nervous system is fried, absolutely fried, and they have to replace that income. And so they're also starting from this place of absolute fear. And you know, I don't live in cloud cuckoo land. There's a reality that sometimes we need to take on the clients we can get, we need to pay those bills. But what we are not brilliant at is noticing when that season is over and actually we can afford to step back and reevaluate and build something that is more sustainable, allows us to feel well and helps us to feel fulfilled as a professional. So I know it's not easy is it, to come to that realisation? Was there anything that sort of helped you?

No. I think it is really, really tricky and I think it, I think for me, maybe it was one, realising that actually there were different ways of working and that just because I wasn't seeing people one-to-one, I was still earning money. But also just that actually if I wasn't happy, I couldn't show up properly. You know, there's only, there's only so much of yourself you can give, and actually I needed to do things which allowed me to connect to people that allowed me to use my creativity, that allowed me to use the other skills that I have as a psychologist in order that I would feel happy and fulfilled and that actually then people want to work with me.

And I think maybe it is, you're absolutely right that, that fear that drives you initially. You know, for a lot of people we're also coming into private practice feeling some sense of loss. You know, we've lost this career in the NHS that we thought we were gonna have. So your kind of battling with that loss, you're battling with that fear and that desperate need to earn the money.

And we're also generally pretty rubbish salespeople, and we give our services away. So actually with you, we did a lot of work about actually what is my worth? And actually, am I, you know, am I charging what I'm worth? That's really important. But also it's about worth in terms of how I feel, do I feel worthwhile? And actually, does it have to be linked to money? So I think all of those things are really important. And when I got to a point where I was just like, well, I can't actually keep doing this, I've got to, to make a change, you just, you just have to take that risk. And then I was suddenly like, well, actually I am, I am still paying the bills. I'm not doing the work I was doing, and I am still paying the bills. And actually, that's all okay, 'cause that's all I need. I'm not, you know, you don't, you don't come into a career in the NHS if you wanna make the big bucks. That's not how it works, is it? So actually it was, it was about kind of being able to step off and take a risk in some ways that the income would still come in and, and see that that was okay.

Yeah. And I think that knowing your values allows you to sort of calculate the risk in a way that I suppose I maybe wasn't always encouraged to do with... I did some sort of generic business courses at the beginning of my practice 'cause I was very lucky as an Armed Forces spouse, there's funding for us to go on courses and set up businesses and things.

So I did some of that and I think they've actually got a different course now, which I've heard is really amazing. But the course I did was very kind of old fashioned in some ways. It was really useful, I mean, I'm very grateful for it, but one of the ways in which I think it was a little bit old fashioned was the kind of assumption that we would all build the kind of businesses that we just wanted to grow and grow and grow and grow.

And that's an assumption that's baked into an awful lot of entrepreneurial podcasts, books, MBA courses, like really most of the mainstream business stuff out there is based on this assumption that you will always want to be upping the revenue, upping the profit. And there are, I think for me, there are seasons for that.

You know, I get very excited by opportunities sometimes, and if I'm in a place in my life where I can kind of, you know, strap in for the rollercoaster and go for it, then that is in my nature. But there are seasons where that is not the right thing. And I think something that I have tried to encourage my clients to do much more, and we really focus on, on the retreat that we run, which is coming up in May actually, which is very exciting, we're doing our second one. But the theme that really came up a lot in that was this need to step back and evaluate what season am I in? And what's an appropriate goal for this season? Because if we just apply the same goal that might have been right at the beginning to where we're at now, it can get all out of alignment and starts to just feel hard and heavy.

Yes. And I think it's about how you look at grace, isn't it? Because you are absolutely right. You know, first off, as psychologists who didn't get any business training, so you kind of come into setting up your practice with, with no idea and it's, you know, services like yours and then just having to go out and find that, and learn, you know, and actually in the beginning that's really exciting 'cause I was like, oh, I am actually learning some new skills and I don't feel like I've learned new skills in a different area for a really long time. So I really enjoyed that and I realised that actually maybe I've got a bit more of a business head on me than I ever even knew.

And that was really nice. But then, and so I think that kind of fueled me into, okay, I'm gonna grow this business, I'm gonna grow this business. I've now kind of gone, actually, it's not, you're right, season is not the season for me to be doing that. But actually I'm still growing because I'm growing in a different way. Because I'm going, actually, what do I need to feel fulfilled in this work if I can't give every hour that of the day that I've got to my work, if actually family need me a bit more at the moment, but I still need to feel that I'm, I'm going somewhere. Well, actually, let's think about this, this connections I can make, the services I can be offering that still give me that sense of growth. And so this is why I'm looking at actually let's, let's kind of join forces with people. Let's build connection, let's set up some courses, you know, I'm developing this course for parents who've experienced some level of trauma, because actually, you know, I've seen that there's a gap in the services for this. And actually at the minute it's not making me any money at all. And that is not a problem in any way, shape or form because I'm really enjoying it. And actually that's growth just as much as anything else.

One hundred percent. I think remembering that there's this part of us that we need to feed and that if we have been in a season where income has been the priority for a while, that part can get a bit depleted. And so when there's space to kinda nurture it again, it's so valuable to, to take that. I think that will probably really resonate with a lot of people and it certainly does with me.

So have you got any advice that you'd like to give for maybe a psychologist or a therapist who's got an idea for a different type of project, but feels a bit stuck. Maybe they're doing lots of one-to-one at the moment and just isn't sure how to make that real.

Yeah, I mean, it's really interesting, Rosie, because you were like, if you've got any advice, my immediate thought was like, well, I don't how, I'm not qualified to give this advice to people.

And it, you know, actually that, that imposter syndrome sits with us all the time, doesn't it? But actually, you know, as you were talking more, I was like, oh yes, because I am in this journey and I don't have to be an expert to be, to be giving suggestions to people. And you know, I think what I would say was absolutely, i'm sure there's people listening today thinking, oh God, what a, what a lucky position to be in, to be able to go, well, actually I don't have to worry about the money. But, and I completely get that. And there will be people who are stuck in that place. And, that's not to say I've still got, I've still got to do my work to earn the money. I'm, yeah, you know, I'm not sitting in some luxurious bubble and it, so it is that, it's that balance actually. You know, taking the time and balancing out what, what am I prepared to forego in terms of immediate income for that other enrichment? And I think for me, probably going with your gut, actually this, you know, the project that I mentioned there about kind of parenting after trauma, that just came from a parent coming up to me after one of these workshops and saying, it's all well and good, all these strategies that people are giving me, but my own trauma's getting in the way. And she was, you know, really open about that, what courses are there? And I literally was like, I don't think there's anything. So actually I was like, I need, I need to go with this. And actually, because I was already doing that with actual children, there was a discussion that could be had straight away. And then just kind of being brave, you know, actually we had this idea, we didn't have any funding, we had some data and I was able to go, right, we need someone to help us to analyze this data, i'm going to the local universities. Maybe not thinking about it too much, actually, let's just go with it and see what happens. And I think also for me, even if nothing comes of this project, and I really hope it will 'cause I really feel like there's a need for it, and I'd love to be able to offer it through Action for Children, so it is a kind of free option for people as well as there being a kind of low cost option. But actually, if nothing comes of it, it won't matter because it's connected me with people, it's got me back into a world of research that I have not been in for ages, and it's made me have other ideas for research. And so it's about being able to see the other wins that might be out there, even if it flops, so yeah,

I really, I think that's such an important message. Again, it's about how you define success, isn't it? Like a project like that is such a great opportunity for learning and growth and even if you can't get funding for it, how many people from, as a result of seeing what you've done with the research and the proposal, are now convinced that this is something that's needed.

So you might not get funding this time, but maybe you will next year. There's always, what gets funded is linked to what are the hot topics and the hot priorities each year. It'll come around. If it's not now, it will come around and there'll be a lot of people in Action for Children in the people that you've worked with, with the universities who have this on their radar now that might not have before.

So it's still making an impact, even if it might take longer to do it.

And I think the, the beauty of it being something that I'm not doing to try and make a lot of money is that there isn't a time pressure. So actually if it doesn't come off now and it comes off later, it will still be a success.

And I don't, I've got that time to, you know, there's, there's other work, there's paid work set alongside that, and this can be, you know, almost a breath of fresh air, actually to do something completely different.

And you know, one thing I will pick up on there, just to make sure that listeners take note of it, was that you were brave enough, and perhaps this is because you've spent time nurturing those relationships, to bring this idea out into the open and seek support to get it off the ground. Very often I talk to people who have similar ideas. You know, they'd like to create something that's free, and I say, well, you need to partner with a charity and apply for funding together because you do have to be paid to do this in the end, or it won't be sustainable. You can't actually deliver this with zero funding, because you'll just crash out after a couple of years, and that's not what anybody wants. But often that's the barrier, that they don't want to talk to the charity about maybe putting in a joint funding application or start those conversations because it feels scary and like they might have to do some of that selling stuff, if it might be something that maybe the charity's not necessarily thinking about or not thinking about the problem in that way from the beginning. But this is the value of, of building those relationships over time and having that collaborative mindset from the beginning, because you couldn't do this entirely on your own, not if you wanted to make it free or low cost for people. It's just not possible. But in partnership, we can achieve so much more than we can on our own. So yeah, just to acknowledge that the bravery and also the importance of relationships.

Well, thank you for saying that, Rosie. It's interesting because it didn't feel brave.

It just felt like a really natural progression, and I think it does say something about the importance of us fostering relationships with, with so many people in our network and in our system, because this, it was, it was just a conversation. I didn't, you know, I didn't have to psych myself up to pitch it to them.

It was, it was a water cooler conversation, you know. And it's so important that we hold onto those things even when we work in a world that is far less face-to-face. Because without the relationships, you know, and that feeds through everything we do, I think it's, you know, it's about building the work that we do in our private practice, it's about our clinical work, you know, it's all around us about, actually, it's about our own wellbeing as well, isn't it? Without that connection. And you know, I know you and I have spoken before about how private practice can be isolating for people. You know, lots of people do kind of leave in really difficult circumstances, then find themselves working alone and it's really important. Not only does this, you know, this project give me, um, scope to go out and find funding through the charity. It gives me people to be working with, and that's really, really important.

Yeah, it really is. I think the more that I'm kind of in this coaching world, and I've been doing it for six years now, which absolutely blows my mind, but the more I see that difference that the people who are really isolated struggle so much more than the people who reach out, make kind of peer network connections in their communities. We just need to be part of the community, don't we? I had a wonderful supervisor once whose dream was to be like a psychologist version of a midwife on a bike.

She's like, that's what I want to be. I want to be cycling around. Everybody knows that's the like community psychologist who comes and knocks on the door and says like, how are you doing today? And that's really stuck with me as an image in my mind that I think it would be amazing if we held those positions in our community where yes, people just go, oh yeah, I'm struggling with this. Laura would know about that, i'll just give her a ring.

Yeah, I think that's where I came from in that role within social care. That actually it was, oh, not sure about where this placement for this child, I'm just gonna have a quick chat with Laura. And actually there is, you know, and I, but I do think there's some, there's, there's very, very few roles within kind of services that, that offer you that.

We have that benefit in private practice that we, we can make our roles how we want them to be. And it might be hard and we might have to challenge ourselves, but we can do that. And actually, you know, one of the things that I've kind of gone back to and as I've been thinking is looking at all of that stuff around community psychology and what I do doesn't quite fit, fit that model. But it's probably the closest out there because it is, you know, I can remember right back when I, when I first qualified, my very first job was to support residential children's homes in Cambridgeshire. And my supervisor said to me, right, so, what I want you to do is I want you to go to all the children's homes and hang out there and go for dinner. And I was like, I've just spent three years qualifying to be a psychologist and you want me to go and hang out in a children's home and have dinner? It was the most helpful advice that she could have given me because I sat there, I had dinner, I chatted with the kids, I engaged them, I got to know the staff. All this stuff that we're talking about in terms of authority, relationship building, trust. So actually when they come to me and say, oh, I think this kid needs some therapy, I'd be like, i'm not actually sure they're quite ready for therapy yet, shall we think about maybe putting a bit of PACE in and thinking about how you're parenting them? And I could have all those conversations and they would take it. So, you know that way of working has been instilled in me since, since I qualified, and it's really lovely to now be in a position to be building that up for myself in the way that I want it to be and the way that it can work.

Yeah, it's proper values-based practice, I think. So thank you so much for joining us today. I think that there'll be lots that people take from this that gives them hope actually, that they can build a practice that gives them fulfillment and a sense of professional growth as well as just a good income.

So thank you so much for sharing your story. If people want to come and connect with you, I've noticed you're doing some cool stuff on LinkedIn, so where's the best place for people to find you?

Yeah, so people find me on LinkedIn, Dr Laura Bennett. And it's, there's, this whole world of social media is like really new to me, I was really pushed into it, and I've really, um, kind of just again, had to take the leap and be brave, but I actually quite enjoy it now. So yeah, please do find me there, or my website, which is oasis- psychology.co uk.

Brilliant. And I'll make sure that those links are in the show notes, so it's nice and easy for people to find you.

Oh, well thank you so much Rosie, it's actually really nice to have that space because, you know, we spend a lot of time talking about the importance of other professionals reflecting, but very rarely do we get the chance to re reflect on, on what we would are doing ourselves. So thank you for that opportunity.

Oh, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you.