Ever wonder if busyness has to mean burnout? What if you could stay busy while still feeling deeply rested and fulfilled? 

In today’s episode, host Maegan Megginson dives into these questions with Lori Cangilla, an author and licensed psychologist who helps highly sensitive people thrive. Lori believes that busyness isn't the enemy—as long as it aligns with your values.

During this conversation, Maegan and Lori break down the difference between 'good' and 'bad' busy, sharing insights on how intentional choices can transform chaos into a vibrant, balanced life. Lori also opens up about her own career changes and the creative freedom she’s found on her journey with Singularly Sensitive.

Whether you’re overwhelmed by your to-do list or just trying to lead a more intentional life, this episode offers practical advice on how to spot the difference between energizing and draining busyness. Tune in to discover how you can create a life that’s busy, but also deeply restful.

Here’s what you’ll discover in this episode:

• Lori Cangilla’s path to authentic self-expression (00:00)
• The journey from chaos to fulfillment (02:36)
• The truth about busyness: misconceptions vs. reality (06:39)
• How to identify and manage ‘bad’ busy (08:49)
• Embracing intentional busyness and its benefits (14:06)
• The power of self-compassion in a busy life (25:26)
• Escaping the comparison trap (35:00)
• Living authentically in a busy world (39:29)
• Practical advice for balancing busyness and authenticity (44:07)

Don't miss Lori's wisdom for anyone looking to bring more intention into their life without sacrificing productivity. Listen now to start transforming your busy days into ones that feel purposeful and restorative.

To watch a video version of this, check it out on YouTube: https://youtu.be/vfqeJDI-CLE 

To hear more from Lori, be sure to join her Substack at https://substack.com/@singularlysensitive.

Mentioned in this episode:

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[00:00:28] Lori's ideas on the topic of busyness have really helped me shift the way I think about my to-do list in my own life. She's helped me become more values aligned and intentional about the way that I use my time, and she's helped me see that it is possible to do everything that I want to do while still taking really good care of myself.

[00:01:20] Lori's book, Wander and Delve, has empowered readers on six different continents, and she is a frequent media contributor and podcast guest. Also, she publishes her writing on the Singularly Sensitive newsletter on Substack, which I highly recommend checking out. Okay. If you're ready to listen to a fantastic conversation about busyness, this is for you.

[00:02:36] Maegan: Hi, Lori, welcome to the podcast.

[00:02:42] Maegan: I am thrilled to have you. It's such an honor, and I'm very excited for a juicy conversation today about being busy. And specifically what you're bringing to the conversation is this idea that we can actually be deeply rested and busy at the same time.

[00:03:11] Maegan: Whew! To be busy in the right ways. Okay, okay. I'm very excited, but before we dive into busyness, I want to talk for just a moment about how you and I found our way to this particular conversation.

[00:03:48] So you were feeling really constricted, and you really wanted a platform, a place to share your ideas more authentically, more freely. Can you just tell us a little bit about that struggle?

[00:04:08] neutral, narrow voice in what we talk about. And I think that's all really important for clinical work, but I think it's hard for me to live in that space. It's hard for me to just parcel out that part of my identity. And so I was really looking to work with you to help me look for ways to branch out into a writing career and do those other kinds of things that, as a psychologist, I'm not really doing.

[00:05:00] I subscribed, obviously, right away, and started getting email updates. And I think it was only like your second or third post on Substack that came into my inbox about busyness. It was this hot take on busyness. And I was just like, Whoa. Get out of the way. Lori is here. She has arrived and these are some really powerful ideas that you're sharing on this platform.

[00:05:42] Lori: Well, thank you for that compliment. it. Yeah. Really means a lot to me because I think there is a riskiness to doing that.

[00:06:21] Maegan: It really speaks to the power of. When we're in the right place, on the right platform, with the right people, it's so much easier to share our bold ideas because we know there's going to be a little bit of safety in having those ideas received.

[00:06:40] I'm finding my community there in a way that I certainly didn't on any other kind of social media or even other writing platforms. You know, there's something about the mix of people who are out there. They're my people. I'm one of them. And so it's very easy to share my voice with them.

[00:07:03] So may we bring the spirit of authenticity and bold opinions into this conversation about busyness. So, busyness, Lori, gets a really bad rap. Right? Especially in the more anti hustle culture, burnout recovery communities, it's like we've overcorrected around busyness, and now there's this sort of, it's in the zeitgeist of like, don't be busy, be less busy.

[00:07:43] Lori: Right. Well, I think like you said, there's a lot of reaction to the hustle culture, to the standards that capitalism holds people to, which is basically being busy until you're burned out, and you collapse.

[00:08:17] Maegan: And people have really rigid beliefs about what it means when you're busy. Let's talk a little bit about that, right? If I see you and you're really busy, then I can... I can't, but my default judgments are that, like, I can make some assumptions about you, right? That, oh, you're busy, so that means what?

[00:09:02] Maegan: Yeah, that is so interesting. Sometimes that's true, right? Sometimes it's true that busyness is bad, that like we are busy because we're kind of sucked into the byproduct of capitalism or hustle culture.

[00:09:26] Lori: So I think busyness is a bad thing if it's coming out of difficulties with managing our lives. So that could be being in a work environment that is putting really high demands on us.

[00:10:02] I would say the busyness itself is not the disease, it's not what needs to be cured,if there's even such a thing as cure. But in these situations where it's something where we're lacking skills, or we're lacking some kind of information that would be helpful to us, that's the piece that people need to address.

[00:10:24] Maegan: Okay. And we're going to come back to that in a minute, like when busyness is not a bad thing. But I really appreciate what you just said about busyness being a symptom of a larger problem in life or a larger challenge that we're going through in life.

[00:10:59] But I want my body to learn, to read the signal so that I can kind of clue myself into moments when my busyness is a byproduct of something else. And I think about times when the busyness that I feel, there's an urgency behind it and it's like fueled by fear and scarcity, right? Like I'm busy because I'm trying to make more money because I'm really afraid that, you know, I'm not going to make enough.

[00:11:44] versus living life at a different pace. Am I getting this right? Is this kind of what you mean about like, busyness being a symptom of something else?

[00:11:59] It seems to offer us that solution to the problem. So if we're feeling bad about ourselves, I'll just do more and then I get more praise for that.

[00:12:19] Lori: Because we get the appreciation, and the attaboys, you know, and sometimes it's the financial rewards, or the promotion, or the pride that somebody else takes in our accomplishments, and all of that feels good.

[00:12:53] Maegan: Right. It's like, is my busyness helping me outrun a truth that I don't want to face or that I'm afraid to face? And if so, it's like the busyness... I feel like a victim, too. I think maybe that's another feeling I get in my body when I'm bad busy. It's like I feel like I'm just a victim to my circumstances, right?

[00:13:37] Am I getting that right?

[00:13:57] That kind of vulnerability, too. Those are all signs that the busyness is becoming problematic. Yeah. And what we need is a really, a deeper way of looking at our lives and taking stock.

[00:14:19] That's a really important question. But I want to flip the coin to the other side now and talk about the good side of being busy. Because you say in your post that busyness doesn't have to be bad. And in fact, sometimes choosing busyness can be a sign of a vibrant and complex life. Tell me more.

[00:14:57] And when we are choosing to be busy in support of those things that we value so deeply, that can be a really healthy, authentic, life affirming choice that we're making, that it really is a matter of understanding what we value and being able to make choices that reflect that, and sometimes that means being busy to support all of those things that we care about.

[00:15:25] Okay. This is where this conversation gets really interesting, right, that busyness as a byproduct of decisions that are deeply aligned with my values, with the way that I want to experience the world, that busyness can be delicious and rich and juicy. You talk in your article about how the common advice that we get is just to, again, just do less. Just do less, you know, just like say no. No is a complete sentence.

[00:16:23] Tell us about what can happen if you are just removing things from your to-do list because you were told to be less busy.

[00:16:45] I only see people three days a week, and I have all this time free... that's not necessarily doing anything for my sense of self, my belief in what the values are in my life. So I think we need to be really careful about asking ourselves, what am I creating this time for?

[00:17:13] If it's to just show everybody that, look, I created time... You're not going to feel different in your life just because you can show people your amazingly spacious calendar. In fact, this whole practice that you and I are talking about is deeply personal.

[00:17:45] Lori: I think there's a need to check in with their values around rest and spaciousness, because those can be values that we make choices around, too.

[00:18:20] as being more true to who you are.

[00:18:36] Lori: Yeah. So one of the values that I really have is around family, and around being a mom in a certain way.

[00:19:04] And he is very accomplished. He was the state champion this past season for his age group. So we spend a lot of time at the studio. We spent a lot of time driving him back and forth to camps and meets, and these things are important to him, and they're important to me, because I want him to have these opportunities to do this and explore and develop himself in this way.

[00:19:52] Because it matters to me.

[00:20:00] Lori: Yes, because it gives me that sense of like, I am living the vision of motherhood that I have. The motherhood that is supportive and invested in my child. And I would rather be doing that than having every evening to sit on my couch.

[00:20:27] Maegan: It is so personal, and I do think there's something really helpful for me at least, in thinking about, like, bad busyness depletes me.

[00:21:06] getting to the precipice of like too much of a good thing?

[00:21:50] So it's really this ongoing process of weighing all and balancing all of these different pieces. And that takes a lot of effort.

[00:22:08] Lori: It is effortful. It consumes time.

[00:22:23] And maybe it just starts with like five minutes a day. You know, like five minutes of really intentionally looking at your calendar, looking at your to do list, and asking yourself. What here fills me up, and what depletes me, and is there a balance? And how can I, if not, how can I create more balance?

[00:23:27] I don't have that privilege in my life." Lori, what do you want to say to people listening right now who are having that really resistant, kind of combative, reaction to this conversation.

[00:23:46] But you know, I really wanted it 10 years ago, too. And it's taken a long time to get here. So I think first acknowledging that, yes, you want this, and it feels very far off. It feels like it, maybe it's impossible. Maybe you don't think you have a job that you could do in a more flexible way, or maybe your values seem to conflict.

[00:24:34] And then start there and allow yourself some time to unfold.

[00:24:56] I want people listening to this right now to really be able to see themselves in this process. So, you want to play a game with me? Okay, let's play a game. So let's say that there's a single mom listening to this episode, and let's just say, like, she has a private practice. And she's also working part time on the side at a group practice.

[00:25:38] Lori: I think she can start with just some self compassion for all of the demands that are on her. I grew up in a single mom household. My mom raised my brother and I by herself, and it's a tremendous amount of work. Anytime my husband goes out of town, I'm like, wow, I forgot how hard this is to have it all on myself.

[00:26:23] And is there something that she might want to do differently or might want to change? So maybe she has a habit of doing something around the house that she's just done always and maybe doesn't want to continue to do the way that she's done. For me, it was very liberating years ago to sort of realize I don't care all that much about what my yard looks like.

[00:27:04] Maegan: I love that.

[00:27:16] Is there some kind of trick like that?

[00:27:29] Okay. Listen to this advice from Lori through that lens, and the first step is meet yourself with so much love and compassion because life is fucking hard, and you are struggling, and that is real. And we will never record a podcast and be like, well, I mean, just like let life be easy. You know, just like, let it be easy.

[00:28:10] So let's say that this mom does that. My sister is a school teacher. She does live in an HOA, and a couple years ago she replaced all of the quote mandatory landscaping in her front yard with artificial plants because she just did not... it was just like what you're saying. She was like this is something I don't want to give my time to so she filled it all in with artificial plants. So let's say that the mom in this example does that.

[00:28:52] Lori: I would start with questions of what makes you feel lighter? What allows you to be curious? Or what connects you to something you used to enjoy when your life was less full. Maybe it was when you were a kid, or you weren't working, weren't working this way. But I think starting to explore a little bit of that idea of what might be pleasurable, what might be exciting.

[00:29:49] Maegan: This is such great guidance. And I believe this with every ounce of my body, Lori. Like, look to what gives you pleasure. You know, look to what sparks your curiosity, your imagination, your energy. I love these reflective questions you're offering about, like, think about yourself as a kid. What did you love to do?

[00:30:31] Instead of spending that five minutes doing yard maintenance on a Tuesday, I'm going to take an extra five minutes in a steaming hot shower. Right? Or I'm going to take that five minutes to curate a playlist, and dance in the living room. Whatever you can do to connect to yourself, to energize you, be busy.

[00:31:03] Lori: Yeah, absolutely. And I think when we do that experiment, when we take that five minutes and we use it differently, if we take 15 seconds afterwards and check in with ourselves, how was that?

[00:31:28] Maegan: Yes, the compass is pointing north at that point, right? And like follow the breadcrumbs in that direction, and let it take as much time as it takes.

[00:31:54] So much joy, so much connection, creative energy, fill in the blank. And I realized the other day, thanks to a Facebook memory, that it's been 10 years this summer since I did my last show. First of all, that blew my mind because it feels like it was five days ago. You know what I mean? And I was like, Whoa, wow.

[00:32:34] Doing shows takes a lot. It's a lot. It's very time consuming. For a short amount of time, like say like two months, it takes all your time, all your free time. And I've said to myself, ugh, it's just too much time. You know, I'm already busy, I would be too busy, it would overwhelm me, I can't do it.

[00:33:18] Like, oh! I need to think about this because I have been just default saying no through this conditioning that being busy is bad.

[00:33:40] You've filled that time. It can be hard to say, I want to uproot that. I want to do something different. But it, it doesn't have to be an impossible obstacle to overcome.

[00:34:03] So, thanks Lori. I'm going to keep you posted. I recommend everyone start a podcast so you can get free therapy from your friends. Okay, great. Thanks for witnessing that, that personal process. I think we could all stand to take a big pause in our day.

[00:34:45] And let this be a process that expands and unfolds in my life over time. Such beautiful wisdom, Lori. I have one more question for you about busyness. It's really easy to compare, right? We talked about this a little bit earlier. Like, it's really easy to be like, well, how much free time do you have? And then to judge myself in comparison to you.

[00:35:40] Comparing my life to someone else's life. What do you want to say to me about that, Lori?

[00:36:12] Maegan: Ooh wee!

[00:36:28] Maegan: My busyness is none of your business, and your busyness is none of my business. That's a bold statement. How do people tend to react when you share that idea with them?

[00:37:13] It is truly none of my business.

[00:37:42] And now I can really see that for what it was, which was an overly simplistic way of trying to make sense of our lives in late stage capitalism. You know, like, oh, if only it were that simple to be like, oh, I can just look at what's on your schedule and tell you exactly why you're burnt out or exactly why you're struggling.

[00:38:27] As a friend, maybe the only question is, like, how can I bring more joy and love to your life? And I can just stay out of it altogether if I think someone is too busy or doing too much. I mean, it's just, it's a really... it's a big idea. And it's a, it's a gentle and loving slap in the face that I think we all need.

[00:38:55] Maegan: busyness is none of my business and my busyness is none of your business. Whew, and let's all stop comparing and really take the time to assess through inquiry. Am I spending my time in a way that aligns with my values? Is it making me feel better, or is it making me feel worse?

[00:39:46] And you've done it. I mean, you posted. Go to Lori's Substack and read this post about... I think it's actually called my busyness is none of your business. Read it. Lori, what I want to know now is what's it been like for you these last few months as you've been really showing up in the world in a more authentic way?

[00:40:29] It's not that being a psychologist isn't important to me. It's that there are other things that I am curious about, and passionate about, and want to give voice to. And so having that ability to balance both of those things right now is good. Objectively, I am way busier than I was six months ago.

[00:41:10] Maegan: Lori, this is so incredible.

[00:41:26] And years ago, when I first started business coaching, every coach I was working with said, Maegan, the only way you're going to make money in this business is if you sell people the solution to work less and earn more. And I ran with that for several years. It was one of my core marketing messages, you know, work less, earn more.

[00:42:04] But in a completely different way, right? Just like what you're saying, like, whoa, all of a sudden, like, I am working Saturday mornings, and I love it, you know? And I feel so fired up, and it's like the work is flowing out of me, and there's so much ease, and there's so much creativity. And I'm putting so much more into it, including time, and that's a really beautiful thing that I think totally aligns with intentional busyness.

[00:42:41] Lori: Yeah. It's so different than times in my life where maybe I've worked, you know, multiple jobs just for financial survival, or I've worked in community mental health and had a caseload of a hundred people and worked 50, 60 hours a week. That is not the kind of busyness I want to have again in my life.

[00:43:22] And I would rather have been doing something else. Scrolling my phone mindlessly instead of running to the garage would have been fine. But I think when we make choices for ourselves, and on the whole, we are doing the kinds of things that are values aligned, then it's easier to sort of absorb the energy of those nuisances.

[00:43:59] Fallout? Consequences? As you've shared more of yourself.

[00:44:20] And that's okay. It hasn't caused any damaging rifts in my personal relationships. cause I think I show up pretty honestly there, but I think there are consequences to this. There are people in my life who don't agree with the choices that I'm making, or want to see me work in a certain way, you know, in a very narrowly prescribed, this is what psychologists do.

[00:44:50] Maegan: Lori, what do you want to say to all the people listening who are really afraid to do this? Like, they are afraid to break the mold, they are afraid to show up more authentically in the world. What do you want to say to them?

[00:45:09] I've been starting small for years. Like, I've been growing in this direction for years. Much like, you know, you plant a seed and sometimes it looks like it's never going to flower. And then suddenly you wake up one morning, and it has a bud. And then the next morning that flower is open. I'm at that stage with you where the bud was already set.

[00:45:57] How could I not follow them?

[00:46:15] But then there's another and another and another. And then something happens and the floodgates open and whoosh, transformation washes in. And it happens in a flourish. And it's a little bit dramatic, and maybe some things have to burn down around us to make space for transformation for the emerging parts of ourselves, and that's a beautiful process. And Lori, it's been such an honor to be with you in your process and to witness you stepping so fully into authenticity and self expression. And the world is a better place because of this conversation, because of your ideas

[00:47:05] Lori: I am so grateful for all you've done and been in my life so far, and I'm glad to be a part of this audience.

[00:47:19] Lori: Yes, you can follow me on Substack.

[00:47:25] Maegan: So you can go to https://singularlysensitive.substack.com/ to subscribe to Lori's newsletter. I highly recommend that you do it because her stuff is incredible. Lori, thank you for being here. Let's get off this call and go be busy.

[00:47:45] Sounds great, Maegan. so much for having me.