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Dr. Alice Kerby on Addiction and Life Beyond the Pink Cloud
Episode 3216th September 2021 • Podcaster Stories • Danny Brown
00:00:00 00:25:52

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After suffering from severe stress while going through her doctorate, Dr. Alice fell into a downward spiral of alcohol abuse. This continued until she realized her problem, and she has been sober for three years since.

It's this experience that led Dr. Alice to starting the Beyond the Pink Cloud podcast, where she talks to people that have overcome their own battles with substance abuse, as well as inspired others by living their best lives.

Topics up for discussion this week include:

  • how the podcast grew from her own recovery from alcohol abuse
  • how the Covid-19 pandemic is leading to higher stress and addiction temptation
  • how we're adding to our stress levels while working from home
  • how the show's direction has evolved from recovery-focused to multiple fields of expertise across various topics
  • why she's inspired by people living their dreams
  • some of the hurdles that are hard to overcome when dealing with abuse
  • how the drinking culture of different countries affects addiction levels
  • the fear of sharing her story in the first few episodes
  • how she became a semi-professional fire dancer

Settle back for an open and honest discussion about addiction, recovery, and what that means to the people afflicted, and those surrounding them.

Connect with Dr. Alice:

Contact me: danny@podcasterstories.com

My equipment:

Recommended resources:

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Transcripts

Alice:

That was a wonderful piece of advice.

Alice:

Actually, a friend gave me, he was like, just try this for six months.

Alice:

You can always go back to drinking.

Alice:

And that really made it very possible for me.

Alice:

And I liked that perspective and I share that frequently because it

Alice:

takes this scary nature of, oh my God, I have to change this forever.

Alice:

But you can do six months.

Alice:

Most of us can look at that time period and say, okay, this is doable.

Alice:

Why don't I try this?

Alice:

Why don't I do some research with being sober and see what that feels like?

Alice:

On

Danny:

this week's show, I've got Dr.

Danny:

Alice Kerby from San Diego in California.

Danny:

Who's the host of the beyond the pink cloud podcast.

Danny:

So Dr.

Danny:

Kirby or Dr.

Danny:

Alice sorry.

Danny:

I'm not sure which.

Danny:

Dr.

Danny:

Alice, I'll get you stared Dr.

Danny:

Alice, welcome to the show.

Danny:

How about you tell the listeners about yourself and your podcast.

Danny:

Sure.

Alice:

Thank you so much for having me.

Alice:

It's a, it's a pleasure to be with you this morning.

Alice:

And so I'm Dr.

Alice:

Alice Kirby.

Alice:

I'm a doctor of physical therapy as well as a health consultants and a somatic

Alice:

experiencing practitioner in training.

Alice:

And a lot of people haven't heard of somatic experiences.

Alice:

Essentially I'm a trauma practitioner.

Alice:

So I work with trauma.

Alice:

I work with chronic stress and anxiety primarily within my consulting work.

Alice:

And I'm based here in San Diego.

Alice:

And I started my podcast beyond the pink cloud.

Alice:

About a year ago.

Alice:

I have a, a special love for working with women in recovery, from alcohol

Alice:

addiction and sober women who are.

Alice:

You know, who have moved forward from that place in their lives, where

Alice:

they've been very, you know, dependent or struggled with using the substance

Alice:

or even women who are more like gray area drinkers, or just want to try

Alice:

something other than alcohol to help with anxiety or stress or calming them down.

Alice:

And so I started the podcast as.

Alice:

Really for that community of ways to move forward beyond recovery.

Alice:

And I've really, I'm so happy with the direction it's taken because of

Alice:

course we S we certainly still hold that in the, in the theme of the

Alice:

podcast, but it's really evolved into just a place full of information.

Alice:

I have guests on every week.

Alice:

And so I interviewed people from I had Dr.

Alice:

Neal Barnard on who is really big.

Alice:

The psychologist based in Washington, DC, that does a lot

Alice:

within the plant-based movement.

Alice:

And he's published, I think, 17 books and a bazillion, you know, research articles,

Alice:

but he's had phenomenal results with people actually reversing diabetes, using

Alice:

a plant-based diet and with women who have been able to really heal endometriosis and

Alice:

really you know, painful menstrual cramps.

Alice:

And debilitating, you know, menstrual type syndrome.

Alice:

So he was really interesting to talk to.

Alice:

And then I, I just recently had on Bruce Perry who produce the BBC show tribe and

Alice:

is this documentarian, and he's lived all over the world with indigenous people.

Alice:

And as we talked a bit about the egalitarianism tribes and what

Alice:

that's like to live with people that really don't have anyone.

Alice:

In charge and nobody is able to be in charge.

Alice:

So it really is this sense of equality within a community.

Alice:

So it was really lovely to talk with him.

Alice:

Anyway, I get really, really excited about the show because there's just I'm

Alice:

I love how, how many of these amazing people come on and speak with me and

Alice:

really give my audience a sense of, oh, there's all these other things in life.

Alice:

Like if they are sober, you know, now that I'm sober, like look at all

Alice:

these other ways I can, I can delve into my own journey of, of just really

Alice:

thriving and be my essential self.

Danny:

Right.

Danny:

And for people that, that may not be aware of the town pink cloud what does that.

Alice:

Sure.

Alice:

So it's a recovery term.

Alice:

And I don't know if it's just like in 12 step recovery or if it's more

Alice:

broad, but I know it as there's this time period, almost like a honeymoon

Alice:

phase, I think we could relate it to in a relationship where everything's

Alice:

really lovey and it feels really great.

Alice:

And you know, it's, it's like this with recovery.

Alice:

So when you.

Alice:

When you give up a substance or when you get sober from alcohol or drugs or

Alice:

whatever your thing is there can be this time period, and not everyone goes through

Alice:

this, but a lot of people experience it and it's called the pink cloud.

Alice:

That's essentially where you're just kind of floating on this happy cloud

Alice:

and you realize how great life is.

Alice:

And I think it's before maybe some more, the work can come

Alice:

in around, you know, recovery.

Alice:

But some people stay on it for a really long time and just feel

Alice:

really good, know that they're free of addiction and substance.

Alice:

So that's where the term that pink cloud comes from.

Alice:

And so beyond the pink cloud is really like, okay.

Alice:

You know, now that we're moving forward in our.

Alice:

What's next and how can we continue to thrive?

Alice:

All right.

Danny:

And I know you'd mentioned that obviously your professional job is a

Danny:

therapist and the, the, the podcast is more about recovery from addiction, but

Danny:

it was some of that can be done to trauma and get up recovering from a therapy.

Danny:

What, what, where did the idea of the podcast come about?

Danny:

Thromb?

Danny:

Was it people you were speaking with brands, et cetera,

Danny:

or how did it come from?

Danny:

So your professional day job into the, of.

Danny:

Addiction focused topic of the podcast recovery.

Alice:

So, yeah, sure.

Alice:

And so I I've been transitioning from practicing more as a, as a DPT,

Alice:

as a doctor physical therapy over the past year and a half, really.

Alice:

So I don't actually see.

Alice:

That many patients anymore.

Alice:

I do a little bit of PT still, but not a lot because I've really

Alice:

moved more into the trauma recovery work because it's so valuable.

Alice:

And I'll certainly use that with some of my PT clients because it's

Alice:

great for any kind of like motor vehicle accidents or falls or even

Alice:

surgical prep, things like that.

Alice:

The trauma work is hugely hugely important and works really, really well for those.

Alice:

But in my own life, I got sober almost three years ago and I had really

Alice:

struggled a lot with addiction with alcohol specifically was my thing.

Alice:

And even in as I was fig as I was finishing some of my clinical

Alice:

internships in rotations through my doctorate program, I was really

Alice:

struggling with a lot of anxiety and stress in my personal life, and like

Alice:

really having to claw myself to get.

Alice:

Like I have this picture of like digging out of a hole, like

Alice:

really just clinging to a wall.

Alice:

That's really what it felt like in this last bit of my, my education.

Alice:

So my own drinking really took me down and I'm quite lucky cause I was able to

Alice:

get help and go into some recovery and experience that pink cloud for myself.

Alice:

And then at the same time, I was working with a therapist who introduced me

Alice:

to the somatic experiencing tools.

Alice:

Really resonated with that work.

Alice:

And it helped me so much.

Alice:

And my early sobriety continues to help me a bunch now, but it was

Alice:

really, I think, quite pivotal for me to make that switch of knowing.

Alice:

Okay.

Alice:

Not just do I want to give up this substance, but I'm gay.

Alice:

Sense of myself and the sense of being able to really feel good in my body.

Alice:

And so that was very powerful for me to want to stay sober.

Alice:

So the podcast just came about as part of this greater step into working

Alice:

more with sober women or working with.

Alice:

Women who are under a lot of chronic stress or anxiety.

Alice:

I work for goodly with women in the corporate sector as well, even if they

Alice:

don't have the issue with alcohol, it's almost this addiction to high achieving

Alice:

or addiction to like work and stress where where we get so used to it, that it

Alice:

becomes part of our identity is what I've seen with a lot of the women I work with.

Alice:

They're like, well, if I change my job, I don't know who I am.

Alice:

So.

Alice:

That's kind of a long answer, but no, no,

Danny:

it's, it's, it's interesting to hear, you know, from your own personal

Danny:

experience, how that grew into what you're talking about now and the people

Danny:

you're helping know through the show.

Danny:

And I, I know like some of the people I've spoken to what would be in sort of in

Danny:

the green room prior to shoulder gardens, for example, we've spoken about the

Danny:

impact that COVID-19 has had on people's mental health and their stress levels.

Danny:

And some of that has done to the fact that now a lot more people are working from

Danny:

home for the first time to find that hard to switch off because they don't have.

Danny:

Dedicated 9:00 AM start a 5:00 PM cutoff point.

Danny:

Now you're driving home commuting or whatever.

Danny:

Is that something that you've possibly found, you know the last few months or

Danny:

people you've spoken to on your own show that stress levels are increasing as

Danny:

workload, et cetera, increases over the last few months because of the pandemic

Danny:

and the fact that we've got more time to allocate to work, that we wouldn't know.

Alice:

I think so.

Alice:

I mean, definitely.

Alice:

I think yes, overall stress has been pretty high on a global scale.

Alice:

And I think part of that is that we, we, when you think about it from a

Alice:

trauma perspective and trying to like orient to the threat of like what's

Alice:

coming for us and there's no real visual thing to, to orient to where to find.

Alice:

So it's, it's like we're trying to place ourselves in relation to this, this

Alice:

scary thing or this threatening thing.

Alice:

But I love the, I love your point about working from home

Alice:

because that's huge for people.

Alice:

And particularly I tend to work with women, not

Alice:

exclusively, but primarily, and.

Alice:

Working with women who have children in her home and are

Alice:

trying to do their busy jobs.

Alice:

And yet also caretake all the time.

Alice:

I know that that's been incredibly stressful for people as well.

Alice:

And in some of the things that I encourage people to do to speak to

Alice:

your point of their home all the time.

Alice:

So work can just go on into the night.

Alice:

It can start earlier.

Alice:

There isn't the same constraints or bookmarks of like I

Alice:

start work and I end work.

Alice:

So having people, if they can to set aside a space in their home, even

Alice:

if it's just a table, Somewhere, and that's just designated for work.

Alice:

So to have a particular space that's just around work and you don't sit

Alice:

there and do other things, if you can.

Alice:

And I know not everyone can do that, but if you could even have like a small

Alice:

quarter, that's just for work and I've been doing that myself, cause I'll notice

Alice:

the same thing where it's 10 o'clock and I'm doing this or that for my business.

Alice:

And I'm like, you have to stop.

Alice:

Yeah.

Danny:

Okay.

Danny:

Now I know you mentioned earlier about the guests that you've been

Danny:

having on and the conversations you've been having on the shores.

Danny:

And I noticed that there's a looking at your episodes.

Danny:

You're up to it's about episode 30, 2 33 at the moment 33 was the last one.

Danny:

Yeah.

Danny:

And it looks like you've got a a solid mix of health professionals.

Danny:

And then what I would say is normal everyday people, even though they're

Danny:

well-known in the field, was that always a goal to have a major.

Danny:

Health conversations as well as, you know, creatives and professional people,

Danny:

or did that come about organically?

Alice:

I think it did come about organically.

Alice:

I really, my goal with going into it was to provide the listeners

Alice:

A wide range of perspectives on how to move forward in life.

Alice:

And in the beginning it was more recovery focused.

Alice:

I had more kind of recovery coaches or people like that on people

Alice:

talking about their own recovery journeys, but as it's expanded.

Alice:

Like I was saying earlier, I've re I've really enjoyed the opportunity.

Alice:

And I know my audience does too, to have these people from, you know,

Alice:

from all these various fields and levels of experience and expertise

Alice:

that aren't necessarily tied into the recovery community, but that

Alice:

do offer it a different perspective on what life could be like.

Alice:

And for me personally, I really like talking to people who are.

Alice:

W living there, their inspiration, you know, and who are working in a field of

Alice:

their inspiration, because I think that just gives the rest of us the ability

Alice:

to see, oh, this is possible for me.

Alice:

And, oh, I can follow some of these things that cause.

Alice:

And,

Danny:

And speaking to the guests there's a, as we mentioned has been a wide

Danny:

variety with very open raw topics at time.

Danny:

Has it been not to try to put you on the spot or anything, but has it

Danny:

been possibly like an episode that's really stood out or, or impacted you

Danny:

or of the shows that you've completed?

Danny:

So.

Alice:

Oh, that's such a great question.

Alice:

I don't think anyone's asked me that before.

Alice:

You know, I don't, I have my favorites.

Alice:

I do have summer.

Alice:

I just really not, you know, not because anyone's better than anyone else,

Alice:

but I've had guests that I've just really enjoyed and gotten a lot out.

Alice:

Kirsten Johnson was one of them.

Alice:

She lives over in Bali and has this book called the heartgasm revolution

Alice:

and she's big in the sober community, but I just loved her story and her

Alice:

vibe was so infectious and I feel like she's one of those people that's really

Alice:

embodying what she's what she's preaching, you know, what she's working with.

Alice:

And that was, she was just a delight to speak with.

Alice:

I had Jason Stevenson on who's.

Alice:

Someone I've really admired for a long time.

Alice:

I love his work.

Alice:

He's a meditation coach and is pretty big on YouTube.

Alice:

And, you know, my mom loves him, which was, it was exciting for her.

Alice:

She's a caregiver to interview him.

Alice:

And so that was neat.

Alice:

And he was just a lovely guy sometimes.

Alice:

And the same thing with Bruce Perry, where I'm a big fan of his work.

Alice:

And so it was neat to just sit down with the person.

Alice:

I don't know if those have been hugely impactful on my own personal

Alice:

life, but I do get something out of everyone I speak to.

Alice:

And I think it really does draw back to what I was saying earlier that seeing

Alice:

people that are really living their dreams and are really inspired and motivated in

Alice:

their work is definitely just a catalyst for me to continue with my own journey.

Alice:

And hopefully for the audiences.

Danny:

Yeah, no.

Danny:

And I know, I mean, I'm really jealous that she lives in Bali.

Danny:

I did a fly over there once when I was in Australia many years ago, and

Danny:

it was only there for the evening, but it was just an incredible island.

Danny:

I'm super jealous Rachel

Alice:

lives there.

Alice:

I know, I know.

Alice:

It's me too.

Alice:

It's coming up on the list.

Danny:

Yeah.

Danny:

No, you'd mentioned that the, the podcast sprung from your own personal

Danny:

experience and your own sobriety journey from the last few years, what

Danny:

do you feel is the biggest hurdle?

Danny:

To overcome an addiction, whether it's, you know, substance abuse, alcohol abuse,

Danny:

et cetera, is there, is there something that, that you find is a sort of, you know

Danny:

a similar obstacle for most people or, and how do you help with that overcoming?

Alice:

I think that's a great question as well.

Alice:

And you know, I don't know if there's any one biggest thing.

Alice:

I think you.

Alice:

I can speak from my own experience.

Alice:

Like I really had to get over the idea of Like being able to moderate

Alice:

or being able to control my drinking.

Alice:

I had to just accept that.

Alice:

Like, I can't like alcohol is not for me.

Alice:

It's just not, I can't drink.

Alice:

If I do it, it just goes bad.

Alice:

And I've proven that because I've done a lot of research in

Alice:

that area and my personal life.

Alice:

And it's not something I can do.

Alice:

And some people can, some people can moderate and be very well, but I think

Alice:

you have to really take an honest look at yourself and if it's something, whatever,

Alice:

whatever the thing is, if it's something that you, if it's negatively impacting

Alice:

your life, and that could be, maybe you have a glass of wine at night, but if

Alice:

that's keeping you from reaching your creative potential and you feel like

Alice:

you can really do more and offer more.

Alice:

And be more in your life and that's keeping you from that.

Alice:

Then you've got to be really honest with yourself.

Alice:

Of what role is the substance plain for you, or what role is

Alice:

this behavior playing for you?

Alice:

And I think if you can get honest with yourself on that then seek

Alice:

out community, seek out some kind of support and help around it.

Alice:

A counselor, whether it's working with the coach, whether it's some

Alice:

kind of a group recovery program, there's tons of different options

Alice:

for people now around things.

Alice:

Alcohol in particular, I'm quite aware of, cause that's the field

Alice:

that I work in, but there's a million different options because a lot of

Alice:

people say, well, I don't want to go to a 12 step thing and that's fine.

Alice:

There's like 10 other things you can go try, but you've got to try something.

Alice:

And, and building that community right.

Alice:

The central, whoever that's with, but just to be around other people who can

Alice:

relate to what you're going through, relate to what you've gone through.

Alice:

I think that helps.

Alice:

It's huge.

Alice:

It's huge for recovery.

Danny:

I know I've got a friend who you know about his own alcohol addictions.

Danny:

And one of the things he constantly said was the point you made about having that

Danny:

community network around you, of people that are, have either experienced it

Danny:

previously, or are currently experiencing because they can relate and to know

Danny:

what you're going through, where to see a partner or a colleague or a

Danny:

friend or anything may not be able to understand what you're going through

Danny:

and give you bad advice, even though the things that giving you friendly.

Danny:

Good advice.

Alice:

Absolutely.

Alice:

Absolutely.

Alice:

I've had some women who, who have wanted to kind of question their

Alice:

relationship with alcohol, but one of the women that I'm working with

Alice:

currently, she mentioned, oh, you know, this, this person who's close to me

Alice:

in my life told me, oh, but you never really had that much of a problem.

Alice:

You never heard anyone.

Alice:

You never were driving drunk or anything like that.

Alice:

But she knew that it was really detrimental for her.

Alice:

So I think if you know, inside, like it's not always good to listen to those

Alice:

people that are saying, well, maybe it's not that big of a deal because

Alice:

they don't, they don't live within you.

Alice:

So.

Alice:

You don't trust, trust yourself a bit around that.

Alice:

If you, if you think it's a problem, then try not doing it.

Alice:

That was a wonderful piece of advice.

Alice:

Actually, a friend gave me, he was like, just try this for six months.

Alice:

You can always go back to drinking.

Alice:

And that really made it very possible for me.

Alice:

And I like that perspective.

Alice:

And I share that frequently because it takes this scary nature of, oh my

Alice:

God, I have to change this forever.

Alice:

But you can do six months.

Alice:

Most of us can look at that time period and say, okay, this is doable.

Alice:

Why don't I try this?

Alice:

Why don't I do some research with being sober and see what that feels like?

Danny:

And I know the and I think a lot of that comes down to like, certainly I,

Danny:

I look at the UK, it's a very big drinking culture, drink and mindset culture.

Danny:

And I compare that to see in north America.

Danny:

What of Canada?

Danny:

The U S.

Danny:

And it's very different.

Danny:

And the UK it's celebrated, you know, you're not distrust you unless you

Danny:

have a beer on hand or something.

Danny:

So it's interesting to, you know, I came to Canada 12, 13 years ago almost.

Danny:

And it's been interesting to, to continue to watch my friends back

Danny:

in the UK and their behaviors and how that is so different over.

Danny:

Is it

Alice:

different in Canada?

Alice:

What's it like there with the, with the drinking?

Alice:

Yeah,

Danny:

it's it's weird in Canada because it's got Canada's sort of weird halfway

Danny:

house between the UK and the U S I think, you know, it's like we're closer to the

Danny:

UK than the us and mindset, but we're close to the U S and a lot of things.

Danny:

So I think there's definitely a party culture here, but I think

Danny:

Canadians are, do a better job.

Danny:

Managing it, you know, they don't have bars up until say 4:00 AM or 24 nightclub

Danny:

and et cetera that you have in the UK.

Danny:

And I think that definitely, there's not like a pub scene, like in the

Danny:

UK, there's very much a pop scene.

Danny:

Every lot of times guides at least two or three pubs on the same street.

Danny:

It's crazy.

Danny:

Whereas here not so much.

Danny:

I think that helps for sure.

Alice:

Definitely does.

Alice:

Yeah, I would think so.

Danny:

So with the, the podcast was there, cause obviously you, you

Danny:

mentioned that you'd started a podcast to a land from your own journey and

Danny:

share your license and help women, you know, looking to become sober

Danny:

or continuing a journey of sobriety.

Danny:

What are any sort of obstacles that you had to overcome as a podcast

Danny:

to coming into the space talking about, you know, something that some

Danny:

people might not want to hear about.

Alice:

Yeah, definitely.

Alice:

It's a little scary, particularly the first couple episodes where

Alice:

I sort of shared my story.

Alice:

And I think also getting over the hurdle of being able to interview

Alice:

people and speak articulately.

Alice:

There's certainly an art that comes with that and time helps a lot.

Alice:

And I've noticed more frequently, I've been guesting on more podcasts

Alice:

and really sharing a lot of, more of the details of my own story.

Alice:

And I went back and listened to one and I definitely had a moment of, because

Alice:

I know my mom had listened to it and I had this moment of like, wow, that

Alice:

was really pretty raw and vulnerable.

Alice:

I just shared all that in this very public space.

Alice:

So some of that will come up.

Alice:

I think as long as, you know, for me, as long as I'm feeling quite grounded

Alice:

and true to myself, then it's okay.

Alice:

Because I think being vulnerable and sharing these experiences are what

Alice:

really can help other people to know.

Alice:

Okay, I'm not alone.

Alice:

Other people have gone through this and they've come out the other side, you

Alice:

know, and they're not still stuck in this really miserable place of, of addiction.

Danny:

Alright.

Danny:

And I know you'd mentioned the, the first few episodes.

Danny:

What about yourself?

Danny:

And, you know and you're, you had lessons as a podcast as well.

Danny:

So if you were to give advice, like any piece of advice for either someone is

Danny:

looking to get into podcasts in, or the health professional, like yourself or

Danny:

someone, that's got your, you know, your, a similar story to yourself and is looking

Danny:

for an outlet, what would be your piece of advice for someone looking to begin.

Alice:

Well, I recently learned about Libsyn as far as a podcast host

Alice:

and I did my podcast on anchor and there I'm still currently hosting

Alice:

it there, but I've recently learned a bit more about why that's not the

Alice:

best platform and other platforms.

Alice:

So I think doing a little bit of research, actually on the mechanics of what is a

Alice:

good platform, talk to other podcasters.

Alice:

Anytime you want to start something new, talk to someone who's been doing.

Alice:

And is doing it well and ask them questions.

Alice:

But I think don't overlook some of those technical things as well of it, especially

Alice:

if it's a project that you'd like to start and carry through for a while, see

Alice:

if you can begin on a platform that's going to grow with you and sustain you.

Alice:

So speak with someone who's been doing it, someone like yourself, or, you

Alice:

know, there's so many people that are doing podcasts and doing quite well.

Alice:

But ask questions and get started too.

Alice:

Like, don't be afraid you can order really basic equipment.

Alice:

Very inexpensively.

Alice:

That sounds good.

Alice:

So don't get hung up on the technical things, but getting advice from someone

Alice:

who has been doing it is always a good way to start when, when you're beginning

Alice:

a new journey or a new A new task.

Danny:

Yep.

Danny:

And I like the thing you mentioned, you know, it's as great to

Danny:

start on something like anchor.

Danny:

That's what I started off way back in the day.

Danny:

And it's a really easy platform and that'll let you know, dude, is there

Danny:

something I want to do, you know, in 2, 3, 6 months time, et cetera.

Danny:

And now you can start to, as you mentioned, you know, start to wear

Danny:

headphones and know why you should be wearing headphones when you're, you

Danny:

know, speaking on a podcast recording.

Danny:

So just to, just to switch it up a little bit, what's It may not even be an answer.

Danny:

And that's perfectly fine, cause I know you're a very open book when it comes

Danny:

to about yourself, the show, et cetera.

Danny:

But what might be something that not a lot of people know about

Danny:

you that may surprise them?

Danny:

Ah,

Alice:

oh, that's a great question too.

Alice:

I am such an open book.

Alice:

When I lived in Hawaii, I was a semi-professional fire

Alice:

dancer and belly dancer.

Alice:

And I think some people know that I used to belly dance.

Alice:

I've done a a body of research around it as well, but I don't really do

Alice:

the fire dancing so much anymore.

Alice:

But when I lived over there, it was great.

Alice:

I had this group of women and we would book parties and we got paid.

Alice:

And that's why I say, say my professional, because it was

Alice:

something we were making money for.

Alice:

And it was so much fun.

Alice:

And a lot of people are doing it more.

Alice:

Now I see it a lot in my neighborhood here in ocean beach.

Alice:

There's a big fire community and it's pretty cool, but I like to think we

Alice:

were a little bit cutting edge back then because it wasn't so, so widely popular.

Alice:

That was a ton of fun.

Alice:

It's really neat to work with fire and to have that elemental nature while you're in

Alice:

really in your body and, you know, moving on the earth and, you know, Hawaii is such

Alice:

a magical place for all of that to happen.

Alice:

So,

Danny:

so how does fire and work?

Danny:

I seen also ballet dancers and I seen people like walk over

Danny:

coals and up at fire dancing.

Danny:

What does that look like?

Alice:

So there's a couple of different ways.

Alice:

Like some people will have the long staffs and then there's different kinds of

Alice:

wicking material you can put on each end.

Alice:

I know Canuck is one type and then there's another type.

Alice:

I forget the name of it, but it's like a, a substance.

Alice:

You can dip it in gas.

Alice:

There's white, you can use white gas is what we used to use and then you light it.

Alice:

And so it'll burn, but it'll stay contained.

Alice:

You know, WIC primarily.

Alice:

And so you can have a really big wick and you get a really big flame

Alice:

where you can have it smaller.

Alice:

And I learned with , which is traditional from Hawaii or from

Alice:

that region from the Pacific island region, I think maybe Samoa.

Alice:

And I may be saying that wrong.

Alice:

So I apologize if I am, but it's like two chains and then you have little

Alice:

balls at the end, so you can kind of swing them around and dance and it's fun.

Alice:

Yeah.

Alice:

It's a lot of fun.

Alice:

It's neat to work with

Danny:

fire.

Danny:

Was it ever any accidents?

Alice:

I have a little bird.

Alice:

I got a scar, but nothing major.

Alice:

No.

Alice:

And, and I think for those accidents, you learn really quickly what you shouldn't

Alice:

be doing and just ways to be careful and.

Alice:

You know, take precautions.

Danny:

Yeah, that's cool.

Danny:

I like the sound of that.

Danny:

I, I, I seen people know that you mentioned, I've seen people with the,

Danny:

the ones that are hanging down, like Macy's old sort of medieval messes

Danny:

with the balls on fire at the end.

Danny:

So it's swinging a boat thrown up there and catching it.

Danny:

It's pretty cool.

Danny:

It's a little bit.

Danny:

Well, Dr.

Danny:

Alice, I really appreciate you coming on the show today.

Danny:

It's been a real interesting conversation and I know people take a lot away

Danny:

from the topics you've been talking about for anybody that wants to learn

Danny:

more, either for themselves or for partners, our family, et cetera, about

Danny:

either addiction, recovery, and you know where to listen to your show

Danny:

is about these topics, et cetera.

Danny:

Where's the best place for people to find.

Alice:

Sure.

Alice:

So I'm really active on Facebook.

Alice:

Alice Kirby, there, you can also check out my website, which is

Alice:

Kirby method, consulting.com.

Alice:

I have an Instagram presence too, which is Dr.

Alice:

Dr.

Alice:

Alice Kirby.

Alice:

But on Facebook, I'm on there pretty regularly.

Alice:

I do it a lot of live videos.

Alice:

I talk about some of the trial trauma healing work and just different ways

Alice:

to, to change our relationship with stress and anxiety and integrate our

Alice:

nervous system, things like that.

Alice:

But, yeah, my website's got a lot, all my links and everything as well.

Alice:

Okay.

Danny:

Awesome.

Danny:

So what I'll do, I'll make sure that I drop all the, the links to your

Danny:

shore, the website, the Facebook, et cetera, and the show notes.

Danny:

So if you're listening to this in your podcast app, be sure to check

Danny:

the show notes so we can direct you over to where to find Dr.

Danny:

Alice.

Danny:

So let's see if I really appreciate you coming on today, man.

Danny:

What's your plans for the rest of.

Alice:

I've got a little bit more work to do, and my partner has the day off.

Alice:

So I'm hoping I can get him out to the forest to go for a hike.

Danny:

You'd mentioned that hiking.

Danny:

So that's a big

Alice:

thing.

Alice:

Yeah.

Alice:

I love it.

Alice:

That's what I've been doing a lot of during COVID.

Alice:

So it's, there's an area I discovered recently that actually has trees,

Alice:

which for Southern Califor.

Alice:

A bit of a rarity.

Alice:

So I'm hoping I can take him there this afternoon.

Danny:

Oh, that's cool.

Danny:

Hope you enjoy that.

Danny:

We've we've got the kids they're just doing some schoolwork at the moment.

Danny:

I hope they're doing some schoolwork at the moment.

Danny:

I don't know what they're doing in this half hour.

Danny:

I will pull

Alice:

up.

Alice:

That's a good

Danny:

sign.

Danny:

Well, that's a border, right?

Danny:

Unless they'll make it a huge mess somewhere else.

Danny:

We'll find out.

Danny:

Well, I hope you enjoy your hike.

Danny:

And as I say, I really do appreciate coming on.

Danny:

It's been a pleasure having you on.

Alice:

Thank you so much for having me.

Danny:

This has been another episode of podcast stories.

Danny:

If you enjoyed this week's episode you know, feel free to leave a

Danny:

review on iTunes and share with anybody that you feel might enjoy it.

Danny:

You can find more episodes at Podcaster Stories dot com and on your favorite

Danny:

podcast app, like apple podcast, Google podcast, Spotify, and more until the