In this week’s episode of On the Up and Up, we talk alllll things Intellectual Property with client, friend, and kickass IP Attorney, Nequosha Anderson. 

In this episode, we cover: 

• The emotional impact of intellectual property theft and how it parallels feeling violated, uncovering the importance of protective measures.
• The (not talked about enough) risks posed by artificial intelligence in content creation
• The need for registered copyrights and trademarks as preventive measures.
• Gain practical tips on strategic planning and quarterly goal-setting to fortify the security of your intellectual property.
• Learn the initial steps taken in cases of intellectual property theft and the differentiation between offensive and defensive protection strategies.
• How to integrate legal services early in the entrepreneurial journey to ensure compliance and long-term security.
• The importance of a client experience to create value and longevity in business.

More About Nequosha

Nequosha is a business and intellectual property attorney for the last eight years who assists primarily women creatives who want to legally protect their income-producing ideas. She safeguards businesses and brand assets to ensure their intellectual property is secure and not stolen, allowing the business owner to creatively operate in their genius and not be robbed of what’s rightfully theirs. She serves clients in this space throughout the United States.

ALF Trademarks 101 (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70s5bPo4G64

Follow Nequosha On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esquire44/

Inquire for Legal Support: https://andersonlawfl.com/

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, business, person, feel, client, operations, entrepreneur, attorney, day, create, put, experience, online, love, podcast, protect, understand, legal, deliver, money

SPEAKERS

Nequosha, Kira La Forgia

Okay, I'm so excited for this. Nequosha, I'm just so thankful that you're here today I have I think, since I met you, I've been dreaming of the day. Or we could kiki on a podcast because it always has been so fluid and easy to talk to you. And I learn so much. And it's just always been such a great partnership. And I'm so so excited to share you with our listeners. For not only just like,

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your

literal mounds of information and knowledge, especially when it comes to intellectual property, and all of the things that come along with that, but also just being an entrepreneur running a, like a kick ass operation, like having things be seamless and clear. And I've seen inside of it. So I know it's real. And I think that there is there's so many businesses out there that really need to understand the power of a solid operation. Regardless if you went to law school and became an expert in something completely different. But then you took all of that drive and made it into a really seamless operation. So I want to dive into all this good stuff. But before we do that, tell us all like your kind of elevator pitch. Who are you? What do you do all that good stuff with your own words? Very natural, conversational, whatever. We're gonna get into it. So nothing crazy. Okay,

well, one thank you so much for having me. super dope. Thank you for fluid conversation. I'm had to use that. But anyway, hi, everyone. My name is Nick Felicia sang que sound as in quote, I always tell people, if you can say quote, you can say new closure. I am a business and intellectual property attorney and business is always first. So that's the forefront of everything that I do with my clients. As I think about their business. I've been a an attorney licensed attorney for the last 10 plus years, and I'm trying to do the math, math is not my strong suit. And entrepreneurs, online service providers, creatives, industry breakers, a rule breakers are people who want to leave legacy, but really understand what secured, secured ownership come to me when they want to protect their income producing ideas. So what exactly does that mean? That means that you have a genius, and you don't want to be robbed of your genius. So you come see me to make sure you're not robbed of your genius.

Oh, I mean, I don't know if I want to get into it too much. But let's just say that this hits on a different level these last couple months than it has in my previous experience in business. So I'm super excited to talk about that in a really hypothetical way. But I think what I've learned is that so many entrepreneurs, I'm not alone in having people reappropriate use my intellectual property, you know, take my copy for my sales page, I'm not alone. And that is so disgusting. And there are so many entrepreneurs out there that are that are dealing with this feeling of it's like a different type of betrayal. Like I remember when my car broke, got broken into like 10 years ago, you like feel so violated, and it brought up those same feelings. And that's such a silly thing to remember. But it sticks with you those feelings, you know, and I know that that's a lot about what you do. But can we just like throw it out there that people are actually doing this, like people are actually appropriating other people's stuff,

most definitely, it is very real. Your sense of reflection of that memory, that feeling is because it's along the very same lines of when someone breaks into your car. And it's funny, you bring that up, because I use that very same analogy. When I tried to explain to business owners about their business, it's like a car, would you leave your car doors unlocked. And even if you did leave them unlocked. The purpose of the lock is to try to be a preventative measure is not going to stop someone from going inside of your car, if they haven't mapped out in their brain that my goal is to get inside this car, nothing is going to stop them. Even if we did have the registered copyright. Even if we did have the registered trademark, even if you did have a contract with that client. If they have it sit in their brain that they're going to do something, they're going to do it. But the consequences and the solutions that you have available to you vary based upon what you already put in place as a preventative measure. Right? So take the car analogy. Some people have tracking software on their cars. So if someone breaks in their car in your car and takes it, you had a preventative measure, it didn't stop the action from happening, but you have a different solution, you now can track the car. The same thing applies when you have a registered copyright or registered trademark or actual contract in place. We can go back to that tool and that will guide us in the solution we take next. So thank you for bringing that up. I know it's super relatable, you are not alone. People are really taking things especially Lee, in light of this artificial intelligence wave, and we can get into that a little later. But because most people don't know what artificial intelligence is pulling information all over the web, so that means is taking a little bit of pieces from this and a little bit of pieces from that and a little bit and streamlining it together. But what if it strings together? Something that was very similar related to what you had, and someone puts it out there? And then you're like, wait a minute, that sounds eerily similar to my stuff. What do I do and what's available to me or you take those people who take artificial intelligence generated content and then they go copywriting so getting remember the government is always the last to know. And this and the last to respond to technology innovation. So the technology is like light years ahead. I'm not a Star Wars or a tricky sound know what they are light years. I don't know, Galaxy. I don't know what all those

The point is heading. So we're on the same page.

Because I'm the type that get confused with Marvel and DC Comics. And then my husband looks at me like to sit down think tank just sit down. Because I'd be like Batman, and spider man. And like, you know, when a Transformers calm, and then like, he'd be like, Girl, what, you know, the Skywalker people took me to like 3d. Anyway. So anyway, bring this back home. So everyone will stop making fun of my lack of knowledge. When it comes, we

all relate more than you realize. So you're speaking my language. So you're good. Because he

was like, I was like, You know what? The Infinity Stones. He was like, that has nothing to do with Luke Skywalker. I was like, Well, yeah, he was making a big deal about the Infinity Stones. I did the same thing Infinity and Beyond, don't they say that. I gave him the biggest headache. He was like, I gotta go sit down, I gotta go sit down. So anyway, to make a long, rapid back, I'm sorry, everyone listening, you now got a new tastes of amyloid, you don't know nothing about nothing about that type stuff. But I do know about the law. And I do know a lot about IP. And I do know a lot about how business owners especially those who are conducting their business online can protect their intellectual property, there are things you can do right now. Like right now, like you listen to the baddest podcast, you're gonna have some key strategies on some stuff you can do, especially as it relates to your employees, your independent contractors, your vendors, the whole nine yards, because I want you to really be on the up and up. Oh, I

love it. And one of the things that I think we connected a lot on is that and I think that was just really demonstrated in just the last two minutes of this conversation is that HR legal, all these things that you have to have for your business don't have to be scary, annoying, they don't have to be totally out in left field, they don't have to be boring, like they can be things you care about, and things that you relate to things that you truly understand on a deep level. And that you can stand behind in your business, they don't have to be something that are going to just cause you a bunch of headaches, it can be something that makes you feel comfy and safe and tucked in at night and all that good stuff. And I love how you are able to present that. So in kind of shaking it back a little bit, realizing that people are out there stealing other people's ideas on purpose and then they're like, oh my gosh, well the first thing I need to do is go get a lawyer were like, what does that process kind of look like for you when you get on the phone with somebody that's observing this behavior through their community or a client or a fellow a competitor or something like that? Like what are the things that pop into your head? First that you want to know that you want to ask these business owners that are having these feelings that I've experienced myself recently

this business owners come to me who have these feelings the first thing is I want them to one get it all out. So I always create an environment where you need to get it all out. And the first thing I need you to know is okay, this is happening to you. I want you to tell me it's usually by once you get it all out I can gauge how you're feeling and they can definitely tell me do you want to how far you want to pursue this is this I'm hurt because How dare this person or I'm hurt because this person is literally deflecting money from my business and I want to you know, go scrap with this person face to face because they literally in and and so I'm like all right okay, let's calm down. So number one is how far do you want to take this usually in the beginning? I want to go all the way in the garage. I want to go all the way And then we start that all the way level starts going all the way down, it comes down some notches. And I want to know, well, when did it happen? When did you notice it? Can I see it? So then I need you to see, because you may think this is exactly like the run, I'm like, Okay, well, who told you? Did a customer come to you and tell you? Or did you just discover it? Because this is somebody in your inner circle? And that's a different type of response. Because if a client or customer came to you and was like, hey, is this you, then that lets me know that there's already some confusion happening? And so then that checks a box for me? And then the next thing is, do you know this person? So that checks another box for me? Would this person have gotten access to your stuff? Oh, that checks another box for me. So these are all the questions that I would start asking you. And then I will come to the person and I will say is this, is this piece, this asset that you're holding very near and dear to you? Is it protected? Is it registered anywhere? Is it? Did you register it as a copyright? Do you have a federal trademark for the slogan or this logo? Or this course or this particular source identifier? Well, no. Well, then that closes some doors for us, because now we're instead of us being on offense, we're on defense. And anytime that you're on defense to defend or stake a claim that you own, something is always going to cost more, it's always going to be a little bit more labor intensive. And so I always encourage people, we want to be on offense, because offense is what the crowd comes to see. Defense wins the game, but offense is what the crowd comes for. Quarterback is always on offense. Now football analogies I can do. But I want everyone to know that if you haven't started, this process is not too late. It's something that definitely should be on a priority schedule for quarterly planning, strategic planning. Yes, you should have some type of a plan. I mean, if you want your business to grow in any type of capacity, you need to set a plan. Now setting a plan and acting in the plan and getting the results that you set out are two different things. But we at least need to get it on paper of Q one, I'm going to do this q2, the goal is this q3 q4, strategic planning is very important, there is no business that you have seen, that has scale and grown without some type of strategic planning, because it sets the tone, it allows you not to be, you know, operating a business from your hip, or, you know, just out here willy nilly in it, because then your audience will get confused. Well, I thought you offered this, I didn't know you did that. Because it can definitely, you know, help you plan. And then as a service provider, or legal service provider, it allows me to do my job better if I know where we're going as well. So if you have a new course or offer or you're planning on bringing on your first employee and q3, then or you're going to hire a photographer or a copywriter to do a sales page or whatever you're doing. If we know in q1, then I can start asking you questions about okay, well, we expect the copywriter to be on board by July. Okay, perfect. What are they writing for? What is the name of the program, let's make sure this program name is actually available. Let's make sure this podcast name is actually available, because you can get your heart set on launching. And we may have to change directions a little bit. So integrating me into your business as soon as possible is the best. Now, if you do find someone has stolen something that you just kind of launched with integrating me in the process as quickly as possible. So you can learn what strategies or options are available to you is so important as well. So one, get it all out to how did you come to know three, if it is registered, then we need to start with cease and desist letters and then go that way. If it's not registered, then I may think all of branch in this situation could be best, including you actually reaching out to the person because they could be a new entrepreneur as well. And they may not have the malice that your brain has told you is there. They intentionally did this and did it. They may not know. So maybe gently say hey, how are you? I'm just reaching out because you're a marketing X and your product is very similar to something that I've been doing. And a potential client has come to me and they got confused. So I don't know if you know, but I'm the registered owner of this product. here is, here is my registration link you'd like you can copy or my registration certificate, and you can show them right off the bat, I own this. So I would really love it if you stop doing that using this for your product. And if you and I would really like it if you stop within the next few days. And if you don't, then I may have to take some next actions, but I'm coming to you to try to stop that from happening. And that typically has worked. Like because there are a lot of people who are entering this online space and they have no this their first business day to day, they probably aren't even registered an entity, they still doing things and they solo capacity. And that's another story for another day. But there's a lot of people who don't You don't know what you don't know. So the things we conjure up in our brain, they say they did it on purpose. They're just trying to take my business. Now they probably don't know. So let's lead with that. Until we get shown something different. Yeah,

I love that. And the the the way that you deliver this, it feels so much more empowering than sometimes the messages that we get out there that are honestly just scary. Like, oh, you got it, you don't have like, why are you even releasing that course without having a trademark or you know, whatever. And it can feel really disempowering and scary and make you not want to create because it's like, well, there's another headache or hassle.

There's just some notes on my to do list. Yeah, yeah. And

I think most of us understand and appreciate the value of the being on offense as you sow love, like it was like the best example ever. And really want to make sure that we're doing things the right way. And a lot of us are often dealing with being on offense in some areas of our business, and also now finding smees defensive situations. And so I want to speak to that experience as an entrepreneur because one thing I love about our relationship is that you can teach us all these things. And there's this big, legal scary language, but it's really empowering. And you understand it because we're both entrepreneurs out here providing

Yes, yes. So if you click the link in the bio right now and go to my homepage, the very first paragraph you will see after my photo at the top, is I Oh, what you're talking about? Because I am you. I too am delivering my services on Al Gore's internet, just like you. I am you. So I understand the pitfalls and things that you're going through. Like nobody else, the internet dynamic changes all the time. Oh, God, I'm supposed to have this. Oh, wait, we're pivoting over to notion now. Okay, wait, I can't use Slack for that, oh, wait, zaps. What is the ZAP girl. So like, I get all of that confusion of what do I do now that because this landscape is, is is changes so fast. And you're like, I can't keep up with this. But I get that. And I try my best to convey of educating. So it's so fun. And you say empowering. Because our big three at the firm is for all people who interact with our firm to feel seen, supported, and empowered, whether you hire us and not my job is to help you along your path. Because at some point, you've realized that you needed some help of some kind, you may not know the exact solution, but you have recognized that you need some help, whether I'm the best person to help you, I may not be and I tell you that I may not be the best person to help you. But let me learn what's going on. So I can put you on the path or the journey to get the help you need. Because I don't want nobody out here flourishing, flourishing. I don't I want you all to flourish. I want you to grow and get this money because it is money to be had. I don't it is so much girl, it may in person human breathing. There is so much money to be had out here. You just have to put in the work. And that is where a lot of online entrepreneurs go wrong. They want a magic pill. They want the matrix of fake Red Pill blue pill, boom, I'm a millionaire. Well, they don't really work like that, like I need for you to understand that the people that you see on the internet oftentimes are only presenting you with a highlight reel. They're not telling you that they had to take out a stripe capital long, just a front that campaign that they you saw all over the pay for those Facebook ads. And so people will be like, Oh, I had a I had a six figure launch. We'll let's just talk about that. A six figure launch is just the baseline that now that's like a baseline that's a six figures is very vast six figures is literally what 100,000 All the way up to 9999999 Mm hmm. When you say a six figures, what is that literally 1000 000 or 500,000? Or what is that? That is vague and the consumer now is more savvy than ever before. So the days of the early COVID, sales and people developing all these courses and coming up and ideation and all that, if you think that this space is crowded, nobody wants what you have. So why should I protect it is not worthy. Baby, I'm here to tell you that this landscape is getting smaller and smaller by the day. So please don't feel like your stuff is not worthy of protection, because most likely it is.

Yeah, I love that you say that because it can feel like a constant barrage of just information and fear and fear tactics thrown at us and false income claims and just kind of like for lack of a better term, like a bunch of bullshit. And I think when one thing that I really appreciate about the legal side of things is that we're taking this kind of abstract concept of our business that sometimes exists through zoom and podcasts and digital space and online business, you could be walking down the street and making deals on your phone that no one knows about. And you know, all these things are going on. But then you take that and you turn it in to an asset. And I think that that's one of the most powerful ways to utilize legal and like you were talking about the quarterly planning, don't think about it like a task. Think about it, like these are building assets in your business that extend outside of this fun podcast that I made up out of the clear blue sky, you know, so it's really important to see it as not just an investment, but you're building an asset that creates a saleable thing for your business to exist outside of our space.

And that is that, yes, you hit the nail on the head. So that's why I always encourage people to come learn from me get my resources, because you just spoke my entire framework, you know, that's what we call it our frameworks or because I didn't have the proper way to say it before. But I worked with a beautiful person, her name is Sarah moon, she does marketing and like message, and then I work with another messaging sale. Anyway, I came up, I finally was able to take it from my head and get it out. And I call it create, protect, and share. And so many entrepreneurs, especially in the online world, we are creators baby, we will create, create, create, create, create, create, and we will immediately jump to share, right? Well, what I need everyone to know is there's a middle space there, I call it protect. And this is where most people skip, you will go create and you will jump directly to share and you will forget protection and then you got to come down a notch to protect and as usually when you come find me and you're I'm like okay, well you create it. Oh, you're already selling, but we haven't protected. So now I gotta go do some back work. Now I got to figure out how did you create the logo because that vendor that you use, or that graphic artist, you didn't have a written agreement. So guess what, now you and that person are technically co creators. So now I gotta go find that. Or you're out here delivering your speech or your signature offer. Okay, well, now I gotta go figure out what you promised these people because they may got exclusive rights to something that you're now want to put back in the vault. But they still got access to it. It's like I have to play who did what, when, where how? Because you skip that phrase, that phase of the process. So in a dream world we create this is where you're you know, coming up with the prototype, figuring out what if I want to do a podcast was what criers what does that really mean? Then? Okay, I got the podcast. Okay, I want to protect this. So what level do I do in a grocery? Well, let's make sure the names available. Okay, well, I did my first recording. Okay, have you published yet? No. How many artists is going to be a guest or solo? Oh, a solo Okay, cool. Would batch record 10 of them things and then we can do a single copyright file. Most people don't know you can copyright things before you publish them and save some money. But you know that when you bring me into the process a lot sooner. So this is what I mean where if we follow the form the formula works, it works. I promise you it works. I've seen it work, but people don't know and the type of audience and the type of my dream clients. They are no closer if you tell me the order of operations. I will follow that thing I want to know like Please Excuse My Dear Sally for legal what does that look like? Well, that looks like creating it, making sure I know you create it before we release that thing because remember shares at the very top before we really He's that thing, these are the steps we need to take. And I get you want to make money I get you want to take it to market I get, hey, and of course with some of this stuff takes time. But if you develop a core relationship with someone like me, we might can get you the answers, you need to make data informed decisions in your business, versus you making emotional based ones, because you really liked this name, huh?

I know, and it's naming stuff is so hard as it is. So I think once you add in that extra layer of like, yeah, like, we want to have something that we can mark it and we can develop, and we can feel passionate and stand behind and all that stuff. But it's also like, Yeah, but we're also creating an asset that's going to make us money for a long time, then it not only elevates the experience of ourselves as creators, but also our it sets a standard that our clients can count on. Like, we're legit, like, we've got our shit figured out, like we're out here doing this for real. And that's why I really want to talk to you about your client experience, because not to like totally put you on blast, but I've seen it. I'm in it, I've had you were referred to me by somebody that swears by you. I've been on Zoom calls with people where they're getting customer service check ins on the phone from you, which is absolutely unheard of in most of the online space. And I just want to talk about like, why did you decide and we work with a lot of amazing lawyers. But this is one thing I think that really sets you apart. Besides just the way that you've just messaged that and explained it all today has been like cooped up, I'm like, I don't even know how we're gonna write the show notes for this. There's so much. Okay, the client experience has been an entrepreneur, the entrepreneur, like, it feels like it's been a priority for you. Why did you decide to make that something that you gave a crap about when you already have all the knowledge to fall back on like, it feels like such an intentional decision?

Oh, one, thank you so much. This is affirming in so many ways. So I thank you for that. But hospitality is a core of all the things about my inner makings. And so naturally, when I develop my business, it flowed from there. So most people probably have heard of this before, but I just wanted to share it again. I am not the only intellectual and business attorney that is operating online. So I needed to make sure that my experience set me apart. And I use the analogy of Tiffany's right, we all know Tiffany's, the aqua blue box, right? They are not the only jewelry store. But what sets them apart, what makes people go and covet that aqua, blue box and white ribbon, their exterior experience. And that is what people are buying when they come back again. And again. You are not the only course creator, you are not the only photographer, you're not the only wedding expert, planner, event planner, you're you're not the only fill in the blank. But what sets you apart? Oh, well. So it because I got all this No, it's not your expertise. It's the way you make people feel, it's the way they experienced you. People can receive bad news if you give it to them in a good way. So I'm not going to always be able to give my clients good news. But because of that leveraging of good experience, and being making sure they're seeing making sure they're supported, making sure they're empowered, is going to change how they receive what I give, give them. So hospitality is one of the biggest doors that you can always open because you may not always have enough money. But if you make that Secretary feel good, she may put you on the list. Or you may not always have money to get the upgraded concert ticket. But the ticket holder or the person who guides you to your seat, you treat them nice you ask them how they're doing. They may be like, hey, look, it's like the second act. I know for a fact these seats aren't taking. You know, it's the acknowledgement of people and making sure people are seeing the cashier, you're looking them in the eye. You're making sure you're asking her or him or them or they are that human how they're doing today. And they may look at you and totally treat you different. Your eggs may not be broken by the time you get out the grocery store, all because you ask them how their day was. So hospitality is huge for me. Because not only does it make a person feel seen, and that makes me happy. But it changes the way you interact with my firm. You're going to be an advocate for me and put my name in rooms that I'm not even in because of how I made you feel and you want someone else to have that same feeling.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that that's different because a lot of attorneys that we see in this space. And we do have, we have such great relationships with so many of them. But I think that is just something that I've really noticed that you've always put at the center of the experience of your of your clients and just in the way that you kind of conduct things. And I think that this next we talked, we, you know, briefly touched on, you know, the COVID pandemic bubble, like the online business, every throwing money at each other, like, ain't no thing like we you know, and now we're starting to see people separating themselves from the pack. And it's of my opinion, that exceptional knowledge coupled with and kick ass client experience is what's going to set these big businesses apart. And that's the magic, it's not magic. It's a formula that takes work effort, time intentionality, like it's not veering, that's a pill or red pill or whatever. But it's, it's a choice can't

get over that you can't skip over that at all. And if you do, then your business at the end of the day, it may sound, it may take very high very quickly, but you're rapidly going to fall off. Because that can only keep you for so long. I mean, at the end of the day, you want longevity, you want consistent buyers, you want people to continually when they think of human resources, they're gonna think of you when they think of legal I want them to think of me even if it's not a practice area that I have. I refer people to other practitioners all the time, because it's just not something that I do. And understand that my goal is to not just help you with legal but just to be a helper. So I can't be a helper if I don't know what's going on with you. I can't be a helper. If I don't know, you know, if you think I'm only calling you to sell you something half the time, we follow up with clients just so I can see, we could see as a team, how this person is doing as a human. I serve as a lot of online providers, and being a online service provider is lonely. You are it is so lonely. Think about that. I mean, just think about this week, right? How many people outside of your family? Did you interact with, like, Oh, and if it was your clients most times as a solo solo, service, online service provider, you're not meeting these people, you don't know them. And you don't have like that layer of relationship, building with them like that you know them, but you only know a certain aspect of them. So I want to build community, I want to make sure my people are seen, I want to make sure my people are heard and empowered. And if I can help them bridge the gap, I'm going to do everything I can to do that.

Yeah, and I think one thing that I've noticed with your process as well is that when you sign up to work with an attorney, oftentimes it's a very transactional experience. But I know that you have, it actually differs a lot from our business in a sense, where we're like, we want to give you this package, and then you run with it. But you have these long term relationships with your clients, like you know them so well inside and out. Like you know a lot about them. It's important for you, I mean, we built your job descriptions and your cultural stuff. So we know, that's right on the top of your values, you want your team to know your people and all of that. And I think that that's something that's really different from a lot of other attorneys out there not saying that your way of doing business is exceptional and amazing. And I mean, that's why we have a sales call on the books. But also, there are plenty of other attorneys out there that may not provide that same experience. So you're also calling in a client that wants that and is going to respond to it in a way that's like, I want to be in I want in a coach's advice, I respect her as a person, I enjoy talking to her like I want her to be involved. I want to feel safe to go and tell her I have this amazing idea like how can we make sure that I'm getting that bottom of the pyramid, you know, that create section sorted out so that I can really like pursue these aspects of my dreams. So there's somebody out there for everybody. And so for our listeners that we have attorneys on here all the time, like there's something really special about feeling seen by someone that you think is just going to be an interact like a transactional interaction, and it's different. Why do you think it's important to do that, from your perspective and the way that you like the the way that you run your services? Why is it important to have that type of experience where it may not be for other attorneys besides the hospitality factor?

Because it sets the tone for how you deliver the service and, and most practitioners when we go to law school, we learn theory, right? And then we leave law school, we take a bar of some form, and then we learn practice. But in that element, that gap, there's a gap of human How to Be a human in this process. And that wasn't lost on me coming from some of the previous experiences I've had and being In the youngest person working in our local school district, I was the second youngest person and a building that service the ninth largest school district in the United States. So imagine how I had to foster and build relation being a you one of the youngest people. And one of the I worked on the seventh floor. And in a department that was central to the whole nucleus of the district, where we serviced, we had 120, some schools, divided from high school, middle and elementary and some other off sites. And I worked, I worked in the curriculum department, I serve as the curriculum director for the entire district. So that means all your core subjects were under me. So being the second youngest person in the building, I had to Hey, how are you? Hey, how are you? What is your name? And then I started looking for little key things that I can connect on. Okay, this person, a lot of family photos, boom, comes in coffee a lot. Okay, boom. All right. So if I need something from this person, I need to talk about family, I need to talk about coffee. Okay. So this person, okay, a lot of hunting, okay, boom, sports memorabilia. Oh, Ohio State, okay, I need to go, you are from the Ohio State next time I greet them, and then that's going to lower their barrier that's going so those same skill sets of survival, follow me throughout my entire life. Because having a name that is very challenging for people to pronounce, I, and it's not challenging, they just get attempt intimidated, because it's not something that they encountered before. But it lowers the barrier of connection. If I come in, and I learned something about you, or I, you know, make you feel because you're already a little kind of tense, because I'm like, I don't know how to say this girl's name. I don't want to mess up her name. Oh, my God, I read, I can see the thoughts. I've I've seen them across people's foreheads, is like an invisible ink. That tenses up when people don't. And so I try to lower that threshold to make them feel comfortable. So then they are a little bit more receptive to me. And I try that that same line, in my practice, I want you to feel connection, I want you to feel like this is okay. And because hiring a law person hiring an attorney, or lawyer is just is one of the hardest things because you're already tense. You're already in a moment of oh, my god, I gotta have a lawyer. How much is this going to cost? How long is this going to take? Is this person really going to help me? Oh, my God, I just don't know what I don't know. And it's already an intensive type situation. So if I can lower some of that intensity for you, and one, you'll be more forthcoming with information, and then I can really know if I can help you. And then to I try to change the perception because lawyers have this, people have this idea that you're either a high Harvey from suits, like untouchable, or you're the crinkled up suit wearing person, a public defenders and mind you, I was a public defender for almost five and a half, six years. And I don't like that connotation, because some of the hardest people I've worked with, were public defenders, and they actually do care about their clients. And they go further. And I always used to tell people, especially when I got encountered with, well, I want to I'm gonna hire a real lawyer. And I'd be like, Well, I am a real lawyer, and you're very welcome to go and spend money. But understand that I'm in this courtroom every single day. The judge has a relationship with me, the judge knows that if I'm advocating for something in a certain type of way. Why isn't it kosher talking about this in this particular way? And that kind of went over? Did it always work? No. Did I always get what I needed? No. But that relation, helped a lot with state attorneys when I needed to negotiate, or any of those types of things or ages. Relationship at the core is at the core of everything. And if you don't have that, you have nothing. Yeah,

I agree. And I love how you are kind of bridging the gap between the fear and anxiety that comes along with not only just legal, but also for HR, there's a lot of that as well, and confusion and why, you know, it takes sometimes years you're in contact with your attorney. And so it's so important. I mean, not to say like we have favorites with our attorney partners, but like, it's so important to have a relationship that you can count on and like I can speak to that from firsthand experience and offline. But what I will say is that there's something really unique about the client relationship with an attorney and I want to switch gears and talk a little bit about what that meant for you, when building your team and company culture and how that translated and what's different about those relationships and priorities versus your clients that you're serving?

Well, for me, that attention to detail and empathy is number one, I need someone who's going to so when I reached out to you and your team, I needed the provider who was going to help me build out in writing what was in my head, because, you know, as service providers, we all I know how to run my business. Yeah. But to somebody else, what did you get? Oh, you know, or if you want to grow, so I needed to get it out of my head. And one of the key things I told you all was, I need someone who understands how to be empathetic, this is already a traumatic experience for a person to want to reach out to me, but I am not. Most people. And I always tell people, I'm a happy lawyer. Because most people who come to me are excited, they are thrilled about creating, and they're just I know, I need to protect an emotion, I'm so excited, I want to latch on to that. But there comes times in that relationship where I may have to deliver bad news. So if I was able to meet the person where they are built relation with them, and my team understands how important that is, because it is one of the key things that helps us grow. And then trust us to know that we have their best interests at heart. There have been times where I've had people on my team who literally treated the other person on the other side as a transaction. And that experience was filled, and that person didn't come back. And I acknowledged that to the client. I said, you know, I, I reviewed your experience. And I apologize, and I understand that, that does not change how you felt. But I want you to know that I saw that. And that was not cool with me. So that culture building of me being empathetic, and to I'm a mom, I have a family and life happens. And so I get that you may have had an appointment with me on Wednesday at two o'clock. And you probably and your person that you may be caring for started throwing up at 132. And you can't make the two o'clock appointment live the life. So I need my team to be able to come in and support and understand that. So I found for my culture, my team typically does best with people who are caregivers, whether that's to children or other adults, or they have their new neurodivergent. Because if you're neurodivergent, you have the skill set to acknowledge that I am a unicorn. And so I require different things. So if you require different things that can also translate and how you do things for others. So I'm learning in my culture, building certain things to look for. Have other people who don't meet those criteria has been exceptional, most definitely. But at the end of the day, that culture building of are you a caregiver, have you cared for like caregivers doesn't always mean human, you may have an animal that you're a caregiver for so you understand what it likes to that person or human or animal that you're taking care of can disrupt your whole day. And you have to be able to adapt very quickly. So that shows me if you can adapt quickly to change. So all these undertones is how I kind of built out my culture and how it is inter woven and how we deliver our Inter woven. Is that right? Inter weaving? I don't know one, but it shows it shows up in how we deliver our services.

Yeah, yeah. And I feel like there's a little bit of a, like, I always tell the same story. Like when I first started my business, I thought everybody was going to want the same things. And it was going to be pretty easy to templatized a handbook, and it was going to be pretty easy to put together some job descriptions and share them with people when they have a client experience coordinator or you know, whatever. But we have like, you know, we've worked with almost 70 businesses now it's usually for like a short term, like packed in period. And I would say we probably hired 10 different marketing assistants, every single one has a different job description and KPIs and metrics and all of that. And so embracing that as an entrepreneur has been really interesting and a challenge for the linear brain of an HR person. But I think that especially when we get to see the back end of certain businesses and you can actually see the infusion of the culture in the processes and in the operations. That's where you start to see like a ton of impact right up front about the culture. So I wanted, I know how you're we're both like kind of operations geeks. And we love our systems. We love our processes and our data and our metrics. But we're also like very human centric. And I think that's a unique The way I always describe myself as I've never been able to decide if I'm left brained, or right brained. So don't like ask me to I'll just like switch back and forth whenever it's necessary. And in that sense, I know that operations comes up all the time, and I hear it used super incorrectly. I know you don't use it incorrectly? Because I've seen it. So what are some of the things that that define the operation side of your business to you, I just think it would do everybody a real service to know this definition?

Oh, wow, you put me on the spot. Operator operations is I'm gonna go back to this word, the nucleus of of business. And if you don't have operations, you are the you, it's very challenging, it's going to be challenging for you to deliver your services. Even in an exceptional way, if you don't have good operations, you can't scale and grow your team, you can't deliver, you won't be able to deliver the transformation without an operation. And so many of us, especially as online service providers, we our bread and butter is I got the solution, I have the transformation, you have a problem, I gotta go, I can fix it. But if you don't have a systematic way of doing that, it is going to be challenging, you're going to have a problem. Not just if you don't even if you're a solopreneur, where are you keeping all your notes on your client? How are you keeping all the invoices? How do you know if you're gonna get paid? Or have you been paid? How, if you promise 10 sessions, but you don't have a documented way of keeping track of the sessions, you could be on your 15th session, and this person only paid you for 10. So you lose that money in time. So operations is everything. So even if you are a solopreneur, please don't be intimidated. But literally just talk about from I always tell people, it's marketing brings people in the door, sales, gets them in your bucket. Intake and onboarding, captured them from feeling like what did I just do is read that series of doubt. So your intake and onboarding is basically your reassurance period, then you have your production, make sure that is frictionless as possible. So if you are a tech nerd, like me, then make sure your tech stack is actually usable. Because if you are jumping from dubsado, to Kalindi, to Slack, to, to notion to Trello to this and that. Maybe that's a lot of screens to navigate even for one person. So streamline your production part as much as you possibly can. And then think about what is the client experiencing during the production phase. So you probably gonna have to reevaluate reassurance again, because they're in this time, this is when you're doing a note to the bolts, but they don't know that they have no idea what happens in the notes in the boat space, they just know that I haven't heard from you or I thought I was going to get a transformation. Why isn't this happening? So you just need to bring them along, not for the notes in the boats, but just let them know that hey, we started picking up the notes and picking up the boats. And then from there, you deliver it in the Tiffany blue, white box and blue. Yeah, though, then there'd be like, Oh, they didn't feel not included in the process. And they were alongside of the journey. So that's why I tell people when you partner with Andersen Law Firm, we bring you alongside of the journey, we are constantly iterating new improvement, there is always room for us to grow. And that's why we do a lot of touches to know, how are we doing what is going on for you. Because even though our system is designed to keep flowing, we make a tweak one little lever that you brought to our attention and it can amplify the experience for everybody else. So don't feel like you can't speak up. Now there are some times we give feedback and we, we receive it and I do hear the person. But that was a very subjective experience, not an objective feedback. So you have to learn how to, in the words of some people chew up the meat and spit out the bone. Mm hmm. Yeah, I

mean, feedback is such an integral part of growth anyway. But sometimes what the lesson we learned from feedback is just how to overcome it and not have it make us lose sleep and take, you know, like you said, the best parts of it and and apply that to what we're doing. If you care about your business, you're going to do that, you know, like getting that feedback and making everything better. But like the way that you talked about the different phases, I think when it comes to operations, there is a process behind each of those phases that's helping to propel things forward. And I love how you've been able to kind of funnel that into your team fits into specific parts of the process. And your culture is like really resonant throughout that so I just think everybody should take a little like, I guess page out of your book, because

now I'm gonna get all these people just to get my, which is perfectly fine. Because maybe if you go curry, sign up, I dropped dope emails, I if I do say so myself, and my I write my newsletter. And I get a lot of engagement. So that's another thing as a business owner, you don't have to be everywhere. You don't have to do all the things. You don't have to be on the ticky, talkies, the Facebook, the IGs, and all the YouTube BS. If that's not where you feel the best I want you to show up with in a place that feels good for you. So for what feels good for me is showing up in my newsletter. What feels good for me is I show up on Facebook, but on my personal page, yes, Anderson law firm has a Facebook page, but there's no engagement there. Showing up good for me is in my IG stories, like you will learn a lot about how I travel and I have an obsession with the Orlando airport carpet. And I let people know where I am by filming the carpet. And people comment like it show up where you feel good. And people will feel that energy transfer and it over. If you're consistent, it will definitely show up. So like, like prime example I found this is so Rando curious, so random, I found a I found a company that prints the airport carpet on a town a beach towel. So they it's a it's Orlando based company and they have these different, you know, little insignia is about Orlando. So if you're from Orlando, you could get the reference. But maybe they have a beach towel with the airport carpet. And I was able to leverage that because I'm going back and forth from whether or not I'm gonna purchase it. And I put up a IG poll to get my audience who knows because I show I bring them in about the carpet thing. Oh, should I buy it or not? And so this is what I mean, we're showing up for your business doesn't always mean I'm a lawyer, I'm a lawyer, I'm a lawyer, I'm a lawyer, I want to actually see your humanity. And that, if you think about it that way, how do I want a person to feel? And you answer that question? When you are thinking about what type of welcome email I want? Or what type of how do I want a person to feel when they open their invoice from me? How do I want a person to feel when they get their product or their first book a call with me? If you go with that mindset, it will help you and it'll keep down on your Human Resources issues and some of your legal issues.

Yeah, that communication is key, especially if you can build it out in those operations. But well, I could talk to you all day, but I know that we you know have to save something for the paid people so but we call this our desperation minute. So where can everyone find you and connect with you and follow you on your airport carpet journey and also get on the books for to get you to help them to build that first step and really help us step into our Creator mode so you can help us feel safe doing that.

Oh, I love this. So you go Google Nick Crozier, I'm the only one

Madonna of the Internet yes,

so if you type in the quotient in EQ UOS ha I will pop up I'm the only one but if you wanted to reach my firm we are Anderson law firm PLLC I am I am not unique there so please make sure you put the PLLC and you will see Florida and then I will pop up but all of this is in the show notes how to spell my name is in the show notes so baby don't feel bad. I get it but I'm everywhere on Instagram at at Esquire for for the for for us because I was born on April 4. So I get that question a lot. And Instagram. That was Instagram and then Facebook is new crochet interesting. So Oh, come find me. I am there. And I look forward to you all telling me where you found me from so if you found me friend podcast gonna hop in my demons be like I heard you on the show, I'd be like, should I buy the towel?

I'm obsessed with that. And yes, we'll include everything in the show notes, including you so generously shared a trademarks 101 training on YouTube. So we'll include that too. So that if this really piqued your interest and empowered you to feel motivated to protect yourself as a business owner, start there. And then reach out to Nick Rocha through all the ways that I'm going to link you. But thank you so much for taking the time today. And I'm so excited for our audience to meet you because you're freaking amazing and the whole package.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me today.

Yay. All right.