Welcome to another compelling episode of The Last 10%! Today, our host, Dallas Burnett, sits down with Heather Hansen, a former trial attorney turned TV personality, author, and speaker, to dive deep into the power of shaping beliefs in both the courtroom and everyday life. Heather shares her journey from defending doctors in high-stakes malpractice cases to becoming a leading voice in communication and persuasion. They explore the critical importance of belief in influencing others, Heather's unique "SEE" technique can create lasting change. Heather also sheds light on her personal experiences with hypnosis and offers practical advice for leaders and individuals striving to overcome stress, anxiety, and burnout. Plus, hear about Heather's favorite reads and her transition from the high-pressure world of trial law to a fulfilling career in coaching and thought leadership. Tune in for insights that will transform the way you lead, persuade, and build belief within your team and yourself.

To find more great content from Heather, visit: https://advocatetowin.com/

Hey everybody.

We're talking to Heather Hanson today.

What an amazing woman.

She is a former trial attorney turned TV personality turned author and

speaker has some incredible stories about how we build belief and how

important that is in our work and lives.

She's a great new friend of mine.

You don't want to miss this incredible conversation.

Welcome.

Welcome.

Welcome.

I am Dallas Burnett sitting in my 1905 Coke Brothers barber

chair in Thrive Studios.

But more importantly, we have a great guest today.

She has had television work on the Today Show, CNN, Fox Business.

Good Day, Philadelphia and the Doctor Sage Show.

Oh my goodness.

Welcome to the show, Heather

Oh my God, Dallas.

It's so fun to be here.

I'm excited about today.

We've already been talking and we were like, we gotta hit record because

there's just too much to get to.

We got to talking two before the show about jobs, and I've had some really

weird jobs in growing up and coming along, but I was fascinated to hear

that your first job was a salad girl.

So we've gotta talk.

We gotta talk about that.

Tell us, tell me about the salad Girl job.

Mm,

Okay.

So I grew up in Massachusetts and my grandparents lived in Cape Cod.

So we would spend the summers in Cape Cod and there was a restaurant

my grandmother would take us to.

It was on the water on a Marina and the waitresses were so aspirational to me.

They were all like college girls and their little aprons and they were so cool.

And I knew I w it was the chart room and I knew I wanted to work at the

chart room, but it was a hard place to get a job because the waitress

has made a lot of money in tips.

And so the way you are sort of guaranteed to be a waitress is if you

worked your way up and working your way up meant starting as a salad girl.

So

I was 13 years old

when I started as a salad girl.

And I mean, you can imagine what that job entailed Dallas.

I would clean lobsters for lobster salad.

I would clean

chickens for chicken salad.

I would chop onions for garden salads, and I stunk to the high.

Heavens, when I got home at night,

that had to be a great day when you got offered the, the waitress

outfit or the whatever the apron they wear instead of getting out and move out.

That had to be a great

well, it was, although you had to work your way

up from salad girl to bus girl to

Oh,

I had to become a bus girl next, which was a great day because

I got to interact with the humans on the other side of the restaurant

and I didn't smell quite as bad.

And then the, when I got to be a waitress, I was in heaven.

You're in heaven.

Ah, that's awesome.

That's a great story.

I love that.

And you were already so driven and you were like, Hey, I want that.

Show me the salad.

Let's go.

let's make it, that's

awesome.

It's

so good.

salad.

Show me that my mom would leave a bucket of lemons outside when I got

home and I would have to shower in the outside shower and scrub myself with

lemons to try and take away the smell.

oh, man, hey, you, you gotta want it.

You gotta want it to do that.

You

gotta want to be the waitress to go do that.

That's awesome.

That's a great story.

I have to shower with lemons outside.

I earned my way

You earned it.

, that obviously.

Was a formative experience.

And that was really important for you because you then

leverage that and went into law.

not only that you're in, you were, you in trial law, you were in trial law.

So tell us a little bit about what it's like to be a trial lawyer and

what propelled you into that field?

So I went to college thinking I was going to be a journalist.

I wanted

to be Oprah.

and my, I went to American university and they had a really weird major

called CLEG, which was communications, law, economics, and government.

And I hated the economics part.

And so I switched to psychology.

Which, best decision I ever made.

I was a self help junkie from the time that I was young.

I've been a voracious reader since I was young,

and I've read all the self help books.

And I loved the psychology degree.

And then, I also loved the idea of being on a stage, and I put that in

quotes, and Knew that acting would be, a difficult road to make the

kind of money that I wanted to make.

And so a trial attorney made sense.

You know, I've thought of the jury as an audience I went straight from undergrad

to law school and started working at the firm where I worked until just six

months ago when I was still in law school.

Wow.

Do you feel like for you that your.

Alignment your giftings would be more, even more set for trial attorney

being a trial attorney like that.

Or what do you think?

you know, I think that it was a lot different than, It's a lot

different from acting and now, and we'll talk about this later, but now that I'm

keynote speaking, it is very different.

Talking to a jury is different endeavor.

First of all, you have a job to do.

You have to build their belief, right?

And you have to do it in a very specific way.

when you're acting, it's sort of, you have to build belief in your character,

but this, you really have to build belief in your story.

And remember there's someone on the other side, who's trying to tear

your story down the entire time.

It's also very formal.

I went to 12 years of Catholic school.

So I stepped well into the formality of the job.

but it's very different.

And so I definitely feel like a lot of my strengths were exhibited in the

job, preparation and determination and.

the ability to speak in public, the ability to read

quickly was really helpful.

I also, all of those years, Dallas, from the day I started at my firm,

I defended doctors and hospitals in medical malpractice cases.

So that was also fun because when I was younger, I wanted to be a doctor.

And so learning all of the medical stuff, I got to watch a lot of surgeries.

I got to be very good friends with the doctors who I served.

And so all of those things came together.

And for a very long time, I loved that job.

And then towards the end, not so much.

Not so much.

Right.

Right.

. What's one of the hardest things that you felt like for you is going through that.

What was one of the hardest things for you in that time?

There were two things and I'll tell you a specific story that

really exhibits both of those things.

So this was a case towards the end of my, well, I'd say the middle

of my trial attorney career.

And these cases were very sympathetic.

Some of them, some of them, the patients were faking it and,

and things happen in hospitals.

Doctors are not God and they

can't fix everything.

But some of the cases were very sympathetic.

And in this particular case, it was an 18 year old young man who died.

And they were suing over this death.

And

so very sympathetic.

That's hard in and of itself.

And then the doctor who I represented, she was a young driven emergency room doctor.

And I was a young driven trial attorney.

And so I really could relate to her and I knew she had not done anything wrong.

sometimes.

When you, I was assigned cases, I didn't get to pick them Dallas.

So some of the cases I'd be assigned from the insurance company, I'd

be, you know, we might want to settle this one and you have

to talk to the doctors about it.

But this one, I was so sure she hadn't done anything wrong, which makes it harder

because the pressure is so great to win.

And she had told me at the beginning of the trial on the phone, we were talking

on the phone that if she lost the case, her boss had said she'd get fired.

And I immediately had an allergic reaction to my own stress hormones and

ended up in the emergency room myself.

So the pressure of knowing that these doctors who care so much about these

cases are putting all of their faith and trust in you and the sadness

of seeing someone who is injured or has lost someone, it was very high,

high, high stress and high emotion.

It's incredible.

How do you, how do you deal with that?

that's unbelievable stress because you're not, you're getting it, like you

said, from both sides, you're getting it from feeling really sympathetic

to the to the person that died.

And then your client is like, yeah, but it's not my fault.

And they're really nice and great and smart and intelligent and driven.

And you're like, man, that is, how do you handle that stress?

Well, not well, right,

but that's not actually true.

most of the time that was the very, the straw that broke

the camel's back, I did a lot.

I started doing yoga in the nineties, the early

nineties, and I did yoga every day, especially trial days.

Because it was my way of sort of like on the mat, I could breathe

deep and let go and regroup.

And it made it easier throughout the day to respond rather than

reacting in the courtroom.

Because the other thing on top of everything you just said is that

you've got a trial attorney and less than the numbers differ every

year, but less than about 5 percent of trial attorneys are women.

And most trial attorneys love to fight.

I

do not, but most attorneys do.

And so they're in there like loving the fight and just wanting to get after it.

And you're trying not to react, to respond and be thoughtful.

And so without yoga, and then I also got into meditation and without the

psychology degree, that psychology degree helped me in so many ways in that job.

And when people come to me now and ask me about, I want to be a trial

attorney, what should I study?

I say, Study psychology because the psychology of the jury, the

psychology of opposing counsel, dealing with your own mental health.

And then also we are called counselors for a reason and helping the doctors

and nurses that I represented, counseling them through trial.

It was a huge help.

I don't know that I would have lasted without the psychology

That's incredible.

You, when you think about law and trial law, that's not the first

thing that would come to mind.

And I think it's so true.

And I love how you were you were so just intentional about, doing yoga.

It's like you didn't overlook the physical, you know, like our stress.

So much of that is physical.

It's just, our body and mind you're tapping into both of those with yoga,

just pulling back to the present and being able to stretch, stretch your

body and just like you said, put it on the mat and that's, that's really good.

I, can we ask, is that, is it possible to know how that all, how

did that case actually come out?

the case ended.

So in many of my cases, there are many defendants.

So I represented the emergency room doctor.

Someone else represented the cardiologist in the case.

Someone else represented the hospital in the case, the jury found against the other

defendants, but not against my doctor.

So.

I mean, from the other defendants, I hate to say this.

If any of the other defendants are listening, they would be mad at it.

I say this, but from my perspective, it was a perfect ending because

the patient's family was still given something for their loss.

But my doctor was not, the jury did not find that my doctor had done

anything below the standard of care.

So she did not, was not found liable.

Oh, man.

So she kept her job.

She's happy.

the person that lost her life, they, their family was compensated because of that.

So yeah, that, okay, there you go.

It worked out.

So

now good for you.

That's right.

so let's talk about this.

Cause you, you've obviously started there.

You had a very successful career and then you are not doing that now.

So how did that all, how did that transition take place?

You were very successful.

Yeah, I was very successful and I loved it at the

beginning, but then, ending up in the emergency room and fighting

every day, every day someone was yelling at me, plaintiffs, the

attorney attorneys like to yell.

They'd yell at my secretary, which would really get me because

she didn't sign up for that.

And I would go bananas.

and also I just had run my course with that.

And I knew that I wasn't going to want to, I, first of all, I

knew I never wanted to retire.

I love to work obviously started at 13.

I love to be challenged.

And so I knew I was never going to retire, but also at 40 years

old, I couldn't imagine another 40 years of battling every day.

And so then I started to explore and I always say, people say

leap and the net will appear.

I did not leap.

Mine was a creep.

I like tried, tried one thing and then the other.

So I trained to be a mediator, which is someone who helps

people to resolve conflict.

and that was just very slow and I don't have the patience for that necessarily.

And then I was doing quite a bit of speaking to doctors and someone

approached me and said, would you ever want to do television?

And that led to some of the TV opportunities that you mentioned.

And I loved that Dallas, I would have loved to have been.

The next, Savannah, Guthrie from the today show, but I had sort of

aged out and if I wanted to do that, I would have had to start at the

beginning and I had golden handcuffs.

and so I still do that.

I'm an anchor at the law and crime network, so I still do television stuff.

But from there, I also got tired of talking about.

rapes and murders and crime all the time, which is what

lawyers on TV mostly talk about.

So I wrote my first book and that just organically led to coaching and keynote

speaking opportunities, which then grew.

And so that creeping, I was like.

Creeping from one pot to another and replanting myself

and have now completed that transition.

So it's just this year that I completely stepped away from the trial attorney work

and stepped completely into the identity of author, trainer, keynote speaker.

Oh, wow.

Good for you.

Good for you, man.

That's,

that's exciting.

Well, and I love how it's more, it's like progressive elaboration.

We have, sometimes I'll have music for them.

People only was, um, uh, music junkie as well.

And so we would have somebody in the business on and they would say something

like it's the overnight success.

It's 13 years in the making, it's like anytime you hear of an artist

and I'm sure that goes in acting or even on the news or whatever it is.

It's everybody just sees someone and they're like,

they just came out of nowhere.

And it's no, They were grinding for many years before you ever

saw them or heard about them.

And so it's

the 13 year overnight success is what they always used to say.

But, yeah, but it's like you said, it's, it feels like a creep, but

then it's oh, okay, we made it.

We've got to the next level.

So that's awesome.

It seems like you've made that transition, solidly now.

I would love to, because you are, and you mentioned this when you were talking about

law, and this is something that I know our listeners will just really resonate with

them because we've got a lot of leaders.

We've got business owners, we've got coaches, across all types of

organizations listening to the show.

And one of the things that we talk about with the one on one coaching system is.

Is battling for belief and how important belief is.

And you mentioned it when you were talking about in the trial, how you were

trying to, shape the belief of the jury, but at the same time, you've got other

people that's actively working against you to shape it the other direction.

So that's a fascinating way to approach that.

And so it definitely makes you an expert in that, especially with

your background in psychology.

Let's talk a little bit about belief and how we go about shaping that.

would you want to take that from a personal standpoint

first or out outside for others?

Well, I think you have to take it from a personal standpoint

first, because one of the things that I always say is you can't prove

something unless you believe it.

People often will say to me, what did you do if you knew

the doctor had made a mistake?

And I'm putting that in quotes because it's more complicated than that.

But if I had gotten a case and I looked at it and then I talked to

my expert and I talked to my doctor and I reviewed the medical records

and I reviewed the literature and I really felt like the doctor had made

a mistake, we would not argue that the doctor hadn't made a mistake because

a jury would be able to feel my energy and know that you can't fake that.

You know, there's, You can't really fake it till you make it in that respect.

And so.

So.

I truly believe that your belief comes first.

I talk about, we all have our juries.

Your jury is anyone whose belief you want to build and anyone who can give you

your wins, but your first jury is you.

if you don't believe for your leaders, if you don't believe in

the change you're going to make, your team is not going to believe

for the salespeople or the coaches.

If you don't believe in your offer or your service or your product, your

prospect or client isn't going to believe.

And so you've got to start.

with building your own belief so that you have

the energy to go out and build other people's.

Oh, I love how you just associated energy with belief.

And that's so true because you can see, especially if you're, if you

own a business and you have either, either you have no mission, vision,

or values, or you have a very weak set of mission, vision, and values.

When I say weak, that may sound really good, but if they're placard

on the wall and nobody ever knows what they are and you don't ever talk

about it, then what good does it do?

And really what you're talking about is if you are leading, you're If you

don't believe in those values and that those values truly do embody what you're

trying to create and that vision, if that's not really where you're going,

how in the world do you get passionate enough to make that energy contagious,

like to pass that energy on, you know?

And so, man, that's so good.

It definitely starts.

It definitely starts with you.

Definitely starts with you.

What are some tips that you would give coaches specifically, but leaders,

cause we see leaders as coaches in how they would approach someone

to help them shape their belief.

Obviously it starts with you, but how would you go about helping someone

else and shaping someone else's belief?

So the first thing that you need to do is the way that

I describe it is know your jury.

You

need to know them.

Like what is their pain?

What are their dreams?

What do they want?

How do they see the world?

What's their perspective?

I got a very limited time to know my jury in the courtroom, But I

would take what I knew, Oh, it's, this many people are parents.

This many people are retired.

This person worked in carpentry.

How can we make an analogy between carpentry and the surgery that you did?

So really understanding

oh

the jury is imperative.

Once you know your jury.

Then, I have what I call the C technique, S E E, so it's

stories, evidence, and energy.

Once you know your jury, you know what stories are going to resonate with them.

For the carpenter on my jury, if we told a story that was making an analogy between

the surgery and building something, that might resonate with that juror.

What evidence is going to resonate with my jury?

There are so many ways to communicate your evidence.

And so some people learn visually, some people learn kinesthetically,

some people learn by listening.

And so really thinking about once you know your jury, what are the stories

that will resonate with that jury?

What are the, what's the evidence that will support those stories

and then your energy of belief.

Oh, that is really good.

And I think that is.

It's very true.

I think one of the biggest things for people and that many times managers,

leaders miss when they're in that environment is that They overlook

the getting to know your jury part.

I think that's if I'm, if I am managing or leading someone, if I don't know

them, then there's no way for me to craft the story or the evidence

that's really tailored to them.

to help shape their individual unique belief, because I don't know what

their individual unique perspective is.

Right.

So that's really great.

Right.

and she's in the C suite and she wants to go to a

different company and we're doing as much as we can to know about her jury.

And I always put that word in quotes, her jury is going to be the

people that she's interviewing with.

Right.

Those are the people whose belief she wants to build that she's

the best person for this job.

We only know so much about them.

She knows a lot about the organization, but those individuals, we have done a

deep dive together, what you can find on Google and social media, and just to get a

sense of them, do they, are they married?

Do they have kids?

Do they travel internationally?

What's going on?

What sports do they like?

Because then conversations can happen and you might do an analogy about a sport

that actually speaks to that person.

So for your listeners, you might be thinking, I can't really know my jury.

I don't have that much available to me.

Use what you have available, ask questions if appropriate to gain more

knowledge, and then take whatever it is that you know and use that to

craft your stories and your evidence.

I love that.

I love that.

It's so good.

Now let's talk a little bit about this because I think as it relates

to belief, I, what you pointed out in the courtroom was so a lot of times

with organizations, because We've been a part of change initiatives.

Everybody's been a part of a change initiative.

And if you've ever led a change initiative, , I don't know if

it's like nails on a chalkboard or some people would just be like, I

feel like I got a gun to my head.

Obviously there's a lot of people that hate change and going through change.

So you've got this jury, which is everybody you're leading.

and at the same time where you're.

Maybe you've got to know there, you've got to know the jury and you're trying

to tell the story and lay out the evidence of why this change is great.

But there's always this, there's always the few, right?

That's always going to be the naysayers.

And I say, you've got usually on any change, you've got 30%.

That's all for you.

They're like gun hoe.

You got 30 percent in the middle.

I don't know.

And you got 30 percent that's actively pushing against you.

that's the best case scenario.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

That's,

how would you deal with those things?

Anti change pushers or the anti belief, lot.

Yeah.

And I think it depends on the situation, but Wayne Dyer had a

quote that I talk about all the time.

And I love, he said, there's two ways to have the biggest building in town.

You can build your own building or you can knock down everybody else's.

And And I love that And I think about that way as far as building belief.

So you want to build belief in the change for the 30 percent who are on board.

And we're going to come back to them because they're important.

And the 30 percent in the middle, you also do want to knock

down the other side's story.

You know, cross examine that story, really question it and get after it and

prove where it's wrong.

But I, I think it's much better to spend the majority of your time

building your story than knocking down the other side's story.

Sometimes you have to do it.

It depends on the circumstance.

In the courtroom, I had to do it.

I had to knock down the other side's story and build my own at the same time.

But I think as leaders, sometimes we spend so much time focused on

knocking down the other side's story that we haven't built our own.

And your secret weapon there is the 30 percent who are on board.

Because when you have people who are true believers, they want to share that belief.

They want other people to believe as well.

They become your strongest advocates.

And so you want to give them stories and evidence to share.

So that they can be out there building belief when you're not there, talking

to their colleagues, talking about the things with, it's more than a fan, a lot

of people talk about have your raving fans and that's great, but you want advocates.

You want people who have stories and have evidence.

To build belief when you're not in the room.

I love that.

In your mind, the way you see it.

What is the difference in, between a raving fan?

How would you describe that versus having an advocate?

Cause that's a loaded word, especially for you, the advocate word.

Right.

So tell our listeners about

Well, I think an advocate, the definition of advocate

is to publicly support something.

So

fans and advocates would be close in that respect.

But for me, the difference is that an advocate has assets.

So as a raving

fan, I might say, gosh, I love Taylor Swift as an example that everyone can

relate to, whether you love her or not.

So I might be, I love Taylor Swift.

That's a raving fan.

I go to all of her concerts, I love her music.

Whatever an advocate might say, did you know that she gives proceeds from every

one of her concerts to this charity?

Did you know that this song has to do with this specific issue that you love?

This story behind this song is one, they know their jury, right?

So for you, this song may actually speak to this experience that you had.

Did you know that she is a huge fan of cats just like you are?

So you really, it's.

It's using the assets.

It's more than just saying, I love her music.

I go to her concerts.

I think she's phenomenal.

It's stories and evidence to go out and build belief for

her when she's not around.

Oh, that's awesome.

It's almost like one is more consumer oriented.

And one is more, I don't know, it's more ground, it's more

fundamental grounded, or I don't know, but yeah, I totally see that.

You can totally see that.

I love how you put it as assets.

I almost see it as two, it's the person that would be, not only

advocate Taylor Swift, but then open connections and things like that.

So it's Hey, it's not the person that says, yeah, Dallas is a great guy.

He's the it's the, Hey, Dallas is doing this show and let me get you on that show.

Right.

Or let me open this door for you.

Right.

Or Dallas to you, it's that asset.

It's the connection.

it's also the knowing of it all.

So I, yeah, that's a, it's definitely a much deeper level.

It's more fundamental than a.

Raving fan.

I love that.

And it's

usually based on a stronger belief,

right?

A raving fan believes, but an advocate believes and wants

other people to believe as well.

Yeah, they know it's like the advocate knows and believes

like everybody.

Oh, we all love Taylor Swift.

Yeah, but I love her and I know this, this, this, this, this, this, this,

this, and I still, think she's great.

Right.

And so that's really cool.

That is so it's stories and evidence and energy.

The main three ways that you would say that people in an organization would

build that advocacy around an idea.

Is that the main three?

It is.

I think that, Each of those have their own, like spiderwebs that come out of

them.

And I, and I, so in my work, we talk a lot about the C technique,

stories, evidence, and energy.

We also talk about the three Cs of an advocate, but so those are

curiosity, compassion, and credibility.

but those are really when you're talking about your jury.

So you want to be curious about your jury.

You want to have compassion for them, see things from their perspective

and speak to that perspective.

And then you want to have credibility with them.

And then you can use the C technique, your stories, evidence,

and energy to speak to your jury.

So we start with who's your jury.

Get curious, get compassionate, build your credibility.

And then we move on to, okay, now how are you going to communicate to them

with stories, evidence, and energy?

That's so good.

you've totally, you've done such a fantastic job of taking your experience in

trial and just overlaying it wonderfully.

This is just, that's just really well,

Well, and it's taken years.

I mean, this is, that's part of the creep, right?

It's been like, I've tried different things and different ways of talking about

it because I had the curse of knowledge.

I knew.

how to persuade a jury, how to build the jury's belief

so well that I forgot what I was doing to make that happen.

And so it's taken, I've started doing keynote speaking in,

I don't know, 2018 or so.

And it's really now that I feel in my sweet spot of my thought

leadership that this not only can I talk about it, but it works Dallas.

You know,

I see it working with my clients and that takes time I think to

dissemble and then reassemble.

it's so true when you're a creator, which

is obviously what you're doing.

You're you've created this system.

It's one thing to know it and own it.

It's another thing to be able to, to at least share it, but then to systematize

that it's a whole different level.

So I totally get it.

and honestly, it doesn't sound like you were creating it.

Creeping if you started doing this in 2018, you've been pretty good

to get this clear in my opinion.

That's pretty good.

Well, thank you.

it's really good.

I would love to, to talk a little bit about any advice that you

give leaders, especially as, and this is more about your journey.

if someone is.

Facing a situation where maybe they're out of alignment or maybe their values

alignment doesn't allow, whether it's with the company or even the career.

What advice would you give that leader?

That's maybe on the front side of walking through what you've been walking

through and come out the other side.

I think, and this is going to speak to the hypnosis,

which I know you wanted to get

into, but, and I have, I have a lot of stories about the hypnosis, but

one of the things that I know is that it's very challenging to make

change and to make choices when you are afraid or anxious or stressed.

And I'm studying to be a hypnotist, which I know we'll talk about.

And one of the things that I'm learning is that.

It's a relaxed mind that makes change.

And hypnosis is a way to relax your mind.

It's not the only way, but for leaders who are in that situation

that you just described Dallas, they are anxious, they are stressed,

they are nervous, they are afraid.

And that's a very difficult place to make decisions from, to make change from.

And so my first thing would be to find a way to relax your mind for some that

might be, It could be hypnosis, could be meditation, could be breath work, could

be running, could be a bath, could be spending time in nature, could be fishing,

but you need to find a place where you are truly relaxing your mind as much as you

can, given your circumstances.

And then just start trying different things and different beliefs on for size.

Oh, I love that.

All right.

So you opened the, you opened up the can that we, I wanted to get to

this whole time, so this is great.

So first of all, I can't agree with you more.

one of the things I talk about is battling burnout because we've

just, this is like an epidemic

and, and I experienced that myself in the early thirties.

and.

And had part of my story.

it's, I don't know, it's just fascinating, but I was trying not

to experience the same burnout I had witnessed in, my own family.

And then.

And then experienced it at the exact same way, it's just

a different side of the coin.

And so it just hit me in the face.

I was like, Oh, I realized this.

And one of the things that really helped me a lot in that was meditation,

because I was in, it was just that quieting of the mind is very difficult.

Very difficult to do if you haven't practiced, and you just are flooded,

and that was one of several things I had to make changes on, but that was

definitely one that really helped me.

So that resonates, but I've never been hypnotized.

I have watched it and seen.

crazy acts of wonder of people on the stage doing things I never

thought they would do in college.

We'd have a hypnotist come in and they would, people would be up doing

chicken dances and all that stuff.

So it was crazy.

I was like, there's no way they're doing that.

And there they go, So first of all, congratulations on transitioning to some

very diverse, activities going from trial lawyer to keynote to TV to now hypnotist.

That is fascinating.

So you gotta give us the kind of an inside, like how

in the world did you decide

So this is actually a great story.

When I was in college, I was a hundred pounds overweight and I saw

an advertisement for a hypnotist in the newspaper back in the day

and he was hypnotizing people in the Sheridan, a conference room

at the Sheridan to lose weight.

And I went and it was like two hours and I got hypnotized by this

man and I bought all the tapes.

It was cassette tapes at the time and I listened to the cassette tapes

every morning and every afternoon and I lost a hundred pounds.

What?

And more importantly, and much more difficult because the

hardest thing is keeping weight off.

so I have kept it off for gosh, it's now been 30 years or 25 years.

so that foundation for me was so, it changed my life.

completely changed my life.

Interesting side note.

I just found the man who hypnotized me back then, and went to coffee with him.

And he's actually mentoring me now through my hypnosis.

I'm getting certified through a more formal, but I got teary when I talked

to him because I can't imagine what my life would be like had that not happened.

There's so much about.

That experience, obviously just losing weight, you're treated differently

and life is different, but also it gave me such a belief in myself.

Because I did something that hard.

I had such evidence that I could do hard things

and that I keep promises that I make to myself.

And so it changed my life.

But then also it's interesting that you say that you saw someone experience

burnout and you wanted to avoid it.

So I saw my uncle slash mentor have a heart attack in the courtroom.

during the days that I was a trial attorney and it was early

in my trial attorney days and I didn't think it bothered me.

But then of course I ended up in the emergency room later in my career.

So I totally relate to your idea.

So that happened.

He had the heart attack in the courtroom and then later my ex had a heart attack

while we were together in the car.

And those two things gave me pretty heightened health anxiety.

I also worked with doctors all those years.

So if someone in my family had a sneeze, I'd be like, you have pneumonia

and we need to go to the hospital.

And this is where the doctors are going to mess up.

And this is what we need to look for.

Like I was there, Dallas, I used hypnosis for that.

And it totally took my health anxiety down to more than manageable.

I mean, really brought it down.

and then most recently I, I've got all the aches and pains that come as you get older

and have done marathons and all that.

And I was getting terrible foot cramps every single

night waking me up from sleep.

Everyone's telling me eat bananas,

drink more water, and I'm doing all the things.

And my physical therapist said, it's at this point, it's

just a habit your brain is in.

And I was like, Oh, let me try hypnosis.

And so I started doing hypnosis and they have totally, I wouldn't

say, I mean, 90 percent better.

And so then I was like, I've got to get certified.

I've done, that's it.

I've, I hear you universe.

Yes.

Third time's a charm.

I'm going in.

going in.

Wow.

That is, that's amazing.

, I need to ask, 'cause I, because I've never been hypnotized before.

what does it feel like to be hypnotized?

Because it always seems to me that you are in this, I don't

know, like you are unconscious or you're totally outta control.

are you aware

Yes.

So the people that you see on stage, that's a, that is a different type

of hypnosis and it's very unusual.

And the hypnotist is choosing people who are very suggestible,

number one, because they want the person to be hypnotized, right?

You're not going to pick somebody who's just so you're, there's ways to tell and

you're choosing people who are highly hypnotizable and anyone who raises their

hand to be hypnotized in that setting is okay with doing the things that a

hypnotist is going to have them do.

Like I would never raise my hand, right?

Cause I don't want to collect like a chicken in front of my friend.

So I want people to remember that because you never do things you

don't want to do under hypnosis.

Hypnosis is really the way that my teacher, so I'm getting certified

by a woman named Grace Smith.

And the way she describes it is hip hypnosis is meditation with a purpose.

Oh, wow.

So the whole time that I'm, I get hypnotized almost every day

as part of my training now with apps or with a, by another person who's training.

And there are times that I'll open one eye and peek at the

phone to see if I'm almost done.

It's not at all like I'm out of it at all.

oh, okay.

Oh, that's different than what I expected.

That's very different.

You literally come out a little bit to see,

and then go back.

That

is way different than I thought.

Huh.

And

very

different than stage hypnosis and they're just different ends of a spectrum.

But if I, once I'm certified, I'll be hypnotizing people to help with imposter

syndrome and patience and overwhelm and building beliefs, and some of the

other things that we've talked about.

I mean, it's very good for pain.

Very good for pain.

Really under.

not enough people know about it, but there's some great studies

out of Stanford that show that hypnosis is better than pain pills

Wow.

Well, I mean, you see it.

I've seen it on TV where they put the needle through the guy's hand and

you're just like, and he's like scared of needles, terrified of needles.

Then he gets hypnotized.

It's yeah, we're going to run this all the way through.

So he's like, yeah, no big deal.

And it's like, what?

so

that's so how, if you are hypnotized and you're, let's say you have

anxiety, what is going on there?

is it giving you.

a quieter space, or is it giving you like more mental control?

how did it work to help you?

What's happening is the hypnotic induction, the

period of time that different people do it different ways.

For me, the way I'm doing it is counting someone down and

having them relax their body.

And you speak slow and it takes an induction, especially the first few

times, because it's like a muscle.

Every time you're hypnotized, you get better at being hypnotized and

you go under a little more quickly,

but that induction is relaxing your conscious mind.

So just like we were talking about before, it's hard to make change and it's hard to

make choices with a stressed out, clenchy,

fearful mind.

So the hypnotic induction is.

I'm telling the conscious mind, you can chill out where

we've got it under control.

And now I'm going to talk to the subconscious now

that you're just chilling.

And I'm going to tell the subconscious that you think that

this anxiety is protecting you, but it's actually hurting you.

And so it's okay to let the anxiety go.

You're powerful and you're strong and you can handle anything that comes up.

And so you're just talking to the subconscious and telling the subconscious.

The things it needs to hear without the conscious mind getting in the

way and messing up the signal.

Now the person is not communicating because they're hypnotized

It depends on the type of hypnosis.

I, when I, so I am more likely to hypnotize people the way

I like to be hypnotized.

Right.

So I'm learning all the ways.

And some people do have conversations and there are hypnosis to go into past lives.

There are hypnosis to go into none of that's all that interesting to me,

but in those situations or to go back.

So one of the ones that is interesting.

And, My mentor now, the guy who hypnotized me, he has a great example

of a person who came to him and was a stutterer and a terrible stutterer.

And he was asking him to tell the story of when he started stuttering

and the man couldn't get the story out because of the stuttering.

So he put him under.

And then asked him, when did you start stuttering and under hypnosis, he was

able to tell the story without stuttering.

And so my hypnotist, I don't pretend, he's amazing.

He was able to then speak to his subconscious and say, this was protective.

You were protecting yourself from your grandfather who hit you, what happened.

And ever since that day, that man has not stuttered.

Oh man.

Yeah.

It can really change lives.

That's amazing.

It was the movie about the stuttering.

It was the king,

Oh, King.

the I know the.

movie you're talking about.

It was a

It was a great,

it was a great

movie,

but it was, it's almost the same scene, just when you were saying that it's

almost like the scene where he puts the headphones on and records them, and

he's just, it's separating the minds, you

That's it.

things at one time.

That's it.

Let the subconscious mind take a rest.

that's amazing.

That's so cool.

so how long does it take to get certified to do this?

this is a process.

So how long does it take?

Well, it can take, so it's very, hypnosis.

My dog just came running into the room for anyone who's listening, who might hear

We're all right.

We're pet friendly the last 10%.

It's all right.

He comes in and wants to play with his toys.

He's all kinds of hyper.

it's not a very regulated industry.

So there are some, and you might, it's.

If listeners are interested, you want to ask your hypnotist,

where did you get certified in?

What was your certification process?

Like mine is six months, it's, 20 hours at least of practice.

It is, lots of examinations, lots of reading.

And then on addition to that, I'm getting mentored by, That man who hypnotized me

he's now retired and he's helped so many people quit smoking, the stuttering,

lose weight, overcome phobias that I want to tap into his brilliance.

And so that'll be some additional mentorship for me.

So I will be, we're recording this in June.

I will be ready to put my shingle out in September.

Well,

good, good luck with that.

That's exciting.

That is so cool.

And I think that's so rewarding.

yes, and it's also, you know, in the tools that we've

talked about with building belief, they're the conscious tools, story

stories and evidence, but the energy part and your own belief part,

sometimes the subconscious gets in the way of your belief in yourself

and that you can do that thing.

And so the tools that I'm learning as a hypnotist are going to help me with that

part of building belief with my clients.

just makes you that much more aware of what's

going on under the surface.

So when, even when you're speaking to conscious people,

you're more aware of how it works

below the, below this back behind the curtain kind of thing.

Yeah, no, that would be so powerful.

That's awesome.

I'm very, Very excited to hear how that comes out and we'll keep tabs on you and

we'll have to have you back on the show.

we can talk more about that cause that's just, that's so fascinating.

How can people, you're an author, you're a speaker.

How can people connect with you, your material?

You shared some great things like.

the story, the evidence, the energy, knowing your jury, belief starts with you.

If they want more of this, they go, man, we need more of Heather

at our company or our event, where can they find you or your books?

So my books are everywhere.

The first book was the elegant warrior and the second book is advocate to win.

My website right now is advocate to win.

Once the hypnosis certification is done, it's going to change to belief builders.

com but right now it's still advocate to win.

com and there you'll find my podcast, my books, my offerings and all the things.

Okay.

Advocate to win and we'll be belief builders.

that's awesome.

We'll put that in the show notes.

So if you're driving, don't worry, we've got you covered on that.

Now we always ask the guests on the last 10%.

The last question we get to is who would you like to see on the show?

So I am obsessed with this author.

His name is Graham Moore.

He, I read the book recently read his book, which is his most recent book.

It's called the wealth of shadows.

And that book is about, it's based on a true story.

It was this secret part of the treasury department that right before

world war two, right before America got involved in world war two, they

were tasked with trying to bring down germ, the Germany, Economy so

that they couldn't fight in the war.

So it's all based.

There's a lot of, like famous economists that it's based in truth.

It's really based on truth.

And I learned so much, I said, I dropped, I gave up my major in

college cause I hated economics.

And yet this book taught me so much about economics.

And then I went down a rabbit hole.

His name is Graham Moore is the name of the author,

but he also wrote a book that I just finished called the last days of night.

Which is about Thomas Edison and Tesla and Westinghouse and the

attorney who was fighting for the patents on the light bulb.

And it reads like he also wrote the imitation game and won an Oscar for that.

So these books read like a movie.

They're quick chapters.

And I just learned so much from both of those books and I

would love to pick his brain.

Now

we will definitely reach out to see if Graham will be on the show.

And, and that, that would be awesome.

So we're gonna, we're gonna see if we can get him on.

however, guys, if you're listening to the show, Heather reads like 200 books a year.

So if she says this is a good book, she knows what she's talking about.

She has, she's read them all.

Right.

I mean, she's read them all.

So just go ahead and take Heather's

word for it.

all, but I wish.

her word for it.

you should check it out.

and, we'll see if we'll see if we can get grandma to show it.

So Heather, this has just been a pleasure, such a fun show.

Thank you for sharing your story and so many good, just, just so much wisdom that

you've shared with the listeners today.

I know they got, just a lot of out of it.

So thank you for being on the show.

Dallas, I have to thank you so much.

Your energy is contagious and really does reflect your belief in your, what you

offer for your podcast, what you offer to your listeners, the way that you work

with your people, and so I feel glad to have been in that energy for a while.