In this second episode is the End of Seeking Instant Recognitions Compilation and this might end your seeking. What is in between opposites?

There exists no liminal space within the so-called “in-between”—only the startling clarity that opposites have never truly existed. It is an ungraspable immediacy that eludes the confines of logic and reason.

What unfolds is a gentle, all-encompassing radiance—a peace so complete it transcends the need for comprehension. It humbles with the paradoxical realization that there is, in fact, nothing to realize. A subtle yet infinite contentment emerges, neither clinging to nihilistic denial nor succumbing to grandiose illusions.

This is neither acceptance nor rejection. Even phrases like “just this” fall into the realm of misunderstanding, and appending “but for no one” flirts with unwarranted sophistication. In the intimate stillness of this ineffable presence, all language is rendered mere noise.

No words suffice. No “in-between” exists within the “in-between.”

To Book a session https://www.emersonnonduality.com/book-online.

Sa. What's sticking?

It's funny. I can't. I can't grasp onto a thought now.

Yeah. What if you can't go to the past of the future? What do you have?

I don't have anything.

Yeah. What seems to be the problem?

I'm looking for one.

Who's looking for one?

It's just another thought.

Yeah. So what are you. Without those thoughts or ideas or whatever?

I can't. I can't say anything.

Yeah. So what are you looking for?

I don't know anymore.

Yeah. Isn't that great?

Why is it so easy when I'm in front of you?

I don't know.

There's definitely, like this. I don't know if it's like an anxiety, but it's. Yeah, it's like a need to. To. To know what I'm going to say.

Yeah, but who is that? Who. Who needs that? What? Anxiety. If there's no next. What if that's it too?

Wait a minute. No.

Yeah.

It.

It.

It doesn't. It doesn't quite feel like there's. There's time passing right now, but there's no time.

What time? Can you find it?

No, no, not without my thoughts.

Yeah. Yeah, man.

Yeah. I'm kind of feeling the lightness of it now.

Yeah.

Although I. That eye. What's the eye?

What's the eye? Where is it? Show me it. Point it to me. Where's. Where did it go? I can't seem to find it. Can you?

No.

No. Okay. There you go.

I don't want to.

Yeah, but even that. Who. Who doesn't want to? Isn't it just another thought? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. They're all. They're all just thoughts.

Yeah. So it's like dreaming in thoughts. Right? And it's like, awake now, and that's saying too much.

There's a thought now that's like, you know, saying, well, what's. What's awake?

Who's asking that? It's just another thought.

It's just another thought.

Yeah. What the hell, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just.

There.

There's like a. There's like a. A want for certainty, but I know that's just another thought.

Yeah. Who wants that?

I just. I don't know why that's been nagging at me so much.

That's just another thought. There's. Where did it come from? Out of nowhere, right?

I don't know. Yeah, there. There's. There's. There's nothing there.

Yeah, there's nothing there.

That's so weird.

Yeah. Boom. Like, my shirt Boom.

Yeah, boom.

Boom. Yeah, that's it. Boom. What? Okay. It's empty, isn't it? Isn't it so empty?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is there any boundaries here? No.

No.

What's. Boundaries? So if there's no boundaries, there's no beginning or ending, isn't it? That's just a thought.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, yeah. Yeah. It can't, it can't. This doesn't start it.

Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't end as well.

God, it's like such a strong illusion.

Yeah.

Not right now, but like.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I guess it's just always been like an addiction.

Yeah.

To thinking.

Yeah. This is sobriety, basically.

I feel like I'm watching one of your videos.

Yeah. When did you start listening to me? Not that long.

It's, it's probably been six months, maybe a little longer.

Oh, wow.

Okay. I've, I've been, you know, wanting to do a one on one for a little bit.

Yeah.

And I was, I was terrified too.

Yeah. I hate that all the time, but, you know.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's really, I don't even think it's like the confronting aspect of it, but like the fear that you're not gonna, you're not gonna see it.

But when there's nothing to be seen, it's like, yeah, there's nothing to worry about, I guess.

Yeah.

I've seen like all your one on ones. Every single one. I'm like, I got.

No, you're in one.

Yeah.

But there's no one here at the same time, right? Yeah, there, there is. You know what? I've been at it. This is like my fourth one today. Right. And it's just like the same thing over and over again.

They're like, what the hell? What the hell?

Yeah, it just, you, you're like a brick wall.

Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing here. There's nothing there.

I, I, I want to grasp. But then the eyes of thought. Like, I want to like, yeah, I want to grasp something.

So the, the trick is the character wants to grab something, but it, it's not even there. Who's grasping it if there's no one there?

So weird.

Yeah, it's awesome though.

It's actually awesome.

Yeah. Isn't it wild? So wild.

Yeah, like, yeah, it's like, I, I don't want to.

Go ahead, Go ahead. It's like a. What the. Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I, I don't want to, I don't even, I don't want to grasp.

Yeah, there's Nothing to grasp.

You know, who's such a nobody? That's, that's why I'm like, I'm saying I. But like.

Yeah, it's just a word. It's just language. And, and if you look at a word, it's made up. The word I is made up.

Right?

Yeah, but what, what this is, you can't make up, isn't it? Right. And that's why it's like, what the. You can't make this up. Yeah. Who can, who can make this up?

It's not made up.

It's.

It's just, it just is.

Yeah. Yeah, I know. The, the past people that were the two.

At least that they were, that I talked to earlier, they're like, I watch your one on one videos and I'm like, but who's watching it?

It's. It's just happening. And then it's like the, the thought comes in and.

Yeah.

And labels it.

But yeah.

It has the seer or something.

Yeah. And not even that. That's too much words.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's so, it's so hard to not start like telling a story.

Yeah. And it's okay to tell a story too. Who cares?

Yeah.

Yeah. It's all it. It's all it and not it. Weird, huh?

It's like, it's like, it's like, you know, like you, it's like stepping into the Twilight zone that everything that you thought is just a.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's like, it's like uncomfortable. But it's also exactly what I'm looking for. You're touching my face. I don't.

Someone earlier was like laughing. Crying goes. This goes laughing and crying is happening. What the hell? Like there. But there's no one laughing or crying. No one's touching your face.

And that's just too much words. Again. See. See the. There's almost like this, this trying to grab it, but it can't grab it. So it tries to, you know, but who's even trying?

So it's just like seemingly layers and layers and layers of thought, but there's not even a thought. It's. It's really peaceful, isn't it?

Yeah. I, I, there's, there's like, there's there's this feeling like I'm, I just, I want to grasp onto the happening.

Like.

But that, like that eye is just happening.

Yeah.

And I'm really like going back and forth.

But you know what? There's no next and there's no before. It's just a thought. It's like time breaks, right? You're like, what the hell? There's no time. Yeah, there's time.

There's.

There's definitely. There's definitely not time.

Yeah. So tell me your story. Like, how. How were you seeking for a long. You're. You're a young dude.

I'm about 26. Yeah.

That's a young dude. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I. I think. I think I started when I was 20 and. Yeah, you know, I had.

I had like an experience that, you know, of course I came out of it thinking I needed to be special.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And that carried on for a while, but as. As I discovered, you know, new teachers, it just got closer to this non specialness.

Yeah.

And then to the point where, you know, you're not, you're really not there. But there was, there was a lot of suffering, which is, which is the reason for the seeking.

I couldn't.

I was so depressed about nothing. You know, life was good.

Yeah.

But. But there was just this emptiness that, that the mind wanted to grasp, you know, and I couldn't.

Yeah. Yeah, I. I went through a lot of suffering too. But you know what? Right now, where's that? It's.

It's not, it's not here.

Yeah. Is there even a here? This.

This is, this is something that I. I want to. I want to get is.

Yeah.

Or not get. But. Yeah, because it. It feels like there's here. But that's like two.

That's. That's it too. See, that's the thing, right? Anything that appears is it. But there's just a thought that it's two. But there's no two.

Because two is just a thought. Yeah. It's like a trickster, huh? It's like, what the hell. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because it really. It really makes you want to think. There's like a before, it's almost afterthought.

Yeah. But to, to outsmart is not to think about it. Yeah. Yeah.

I just.

I just wanna. I just wanna. Yeah. That's why it's like what. It's like, well played. Long con. Right. You know, like, you know, well played. It's like, what the heck.

I don't even. I don't know what to say.

Yeah. It's okay. So all these six months of waiting to talk to me, the first few minutes, like it all falls apart.

I didn't think it would be like this. I thought there would be like concepts, you know, and we talk about concepts or something. I mean, even though it's all just. I know It's.

No, no, I know.

None of it will be.

Yeah, yeah. This can't be. This can't be conceptualized. There's no concept. Or is the concept now?

There's. There's. There's no concept.

Yes.

There's no concept.

Bingo.

I'm seeing. Because you always say, even this is a concept, and I'm like, I'm seeing even that, you know?

Yeah, yeah. But at the same time, doesn't matter, because concept, no concept is just a thought. Thought. Yeah. He always goes back to that. Yeah, yeah.

Does it. Because I know you've said, like, sometimes it.

It.

It gets kind of shrouded again.

It does. But that's just another thought. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's just another kind of like. It's like. It's like, you know, you get caught up in an illusion.

It's like the illusion becomes your addiction. Then you think that you're that and this, this and that. Right? So. And then there's, like, you sober up and everything.

And then there's this moment of like. Like a relapse. But the relapse also kind of like, you know what? All of a sudden, it's like, yeah, just. Just call me up. You know what I'm saying?

You'll have my. I'll give you my number and everything. It's. It's quite simple. And it's basically. This is life without suffering versus suffering.

How can it even happen? Right. It's unthinkable. Right? Isn't it, like, wild?

It's just exactly what I was looking for.

Yeah.

I. It's so. Still.

Yeah. Leave, though, right now.

I. I do believe in. Yeah. I do believe in unity. I do believe in oneness. I do believe that something is appearing. And something.

And something.

Something knows that this is appearing, but I don't know what that is like, you know, it's kind of like. It's kind of like magic to me. It's like. I know there's not two.

So it's impossible for me to be speaking to you because we're, you know, that doesn't exist. That really shouldn't exist. But yet here we are, talking to each other, so to speak. But it's like magic. So how. How does this happen?

You know, it's just. I don't know.

It's.

It's weird.

What are you without those beliefs, though?

I don't know.

Yeah. What if the belief is just believing a belief?

And I've heard you say that before because I've watched, you know, I've watched Some of your videos.

Yeah.

And I've asked myself that question and I just go blank. Like, I can't answer that. I don't know.

Perfect, isn't it? If you can go to the past or the future, if there's no thoughts. Isn't this perfection already?

Yeah, I guess it is.

Yeah. It's always here, right? Like what you said. It's always here, you said. Right. So it's always here. It's blank, isn't it?

Not a thought, not a concept, not an idea, not a word.

Yeah. What am I trying to improve?

Well, if there's no next, what's there to prove?

Nothing.

Yeah.

It's just ideas in my head that aren't there.

Yeah, exactly. What's between an idea and no ideas?

Nothing.

Exactly.

So what have I been doing all this time?

I don't know.

Like, there's literally. Like, there's only. There's nothing here. Like this is.

Yeah.

Like looking at my hands is like. I see it, but I know it's not. Like it's not really there.

Exactly. What's between here and not there? There and not there? What's been between that? Oh, you. You. You froze.

I don't know. Nothing.

Nothing. Yeah. What's in between nothing and not nothing?

I can't even conceptualize that.

Exactly. So everybody talks about the unknowable, the unthinkable, the unspeakable, the unfathomable.

And they'll tell you, this is not knowable, but here it is. Directly it is. It's so direct, you know, I'm saying you can't even. Your. Your thinking even goes. It zaps it. Right. Or the thoughts, James.

I'm trying to find them. Like when I.

When I.

This is weird, man.

Yeah. It's always here. This is always here, right? Whatever this is, it's always here.

I've been trying to find nothing.

Yeah. Years. For years. Right?

There's nothing to find.

Exactly. Yeah. That's why seeking is futile, isn't it? What a joke, huh?

That's a joke, man. That's horrible. That's funny. Wow. I've been ashtick.

Future's not got nothing on this. You remember the prank show from mtv? This has got nothing on this. Right. Ultimate prank, you know?

Wow, this is so funny, man. Because, like, I've been searching and, like, you know, trying to wonder what it is that some people find that I haven't found yet.

You know, got this missing thing, but they don't have anything.

No. Everybody's talking about concepts, even when they say it's no concept. It's a concept.

It is all everything.

Yeah.

Like it's looking at stuff for the first time. Because I'm not. I'm not seeing what I've been told. Like, exactly.

Yeah.

Like my puppy. My dog.

Dog.

Like dog. How can dog those letters be. Be that.

Exactly. It's just three letters. What are even three letters? What's even a D and O and a G. What do we own? O, N, D. Yeah, we made that up. Yes.

It's just words that we put meaning to from.

Exactly.

From wherever. Like somebody puts meaning to it and then we just all kind of fall in line.

And I'm going to go through it. Right. So does. Does. I am. That makes sense right now. What exactly? Nothing. Being everything. No.

No.

Is everybody BSing? Yeah.

Because you can't know this.

Like, how do you. Exactly.

How can you label this?

Exactly. Yeah. How can you even speak about it?

And who can label it?

Like, who can. Who's here?

There's nobody here to really do that.

This is. Yeah, it is. Boom. Pow.

Bro.

Yeah. The look on your face is classic right now.

Bro.

Yeah. What a trip, huh? What a trip.

What a trip.

How long. How long have you been doing this, James? Man?

About seven years.

Wow.

Yeah, about seven years. I. It started out with just kind of self improvement stuff that led to.

That's how it starts usually.

Yeah.

And man, what is the self to improve exactly?

Like what am I? Like. Like how laughable that I am trying to improve something laughable is that. Like who am I to improve on? Like, how could I even do that?

Yeah.

It'S already here.

So. Yeah. How can you improve on something here? It's always been here. We just, you know, in seeking. It's just talking.

Teaching just reinforces that there's something missing, isn't it?

It is something you got to go after. There's something that, like you need to tap into this completeness that you're not tapped into already.

But everything is already complete and you're part of it. You're in it.

You're.

But it's not it. It's just a dream. It's like magic.

It is. It's magic.

Like I'm seeing this stuff. I'm hearing my voice. I'm seeing my hands move.

Yeah.

I see you there wherever you are. But it's not true.

Yes. What's between true and not true? Let's even go further. Boom. We can't even say it. Any word. Is just.

Is just a mask or kind of like almost like A deception. But we have to somehow communicate.

It's trippy.

It is trippy. It's like a. It's like a dmt. Have you tried?

Yeah, it's like. No, I haven't. I haven't, but it's.

Now you have. Yeah. This is trippy.

Like, you know, understanding that there's no understanding. Like, I can't understand it.

See, the words create an opposite, right? So every thought creates a next. Right? So. So seeking is. There's. There's this next. Where's the next right now? Can you find it, bro? Where's the next?

There is no next. It's just exactly like all that stuff is. I don't even know what that is. Like, I don't.

I don't.

And I feel like. I feel like this is something I need to contemplate, but there's nothing to contemplate.

I would get a new piece of information that I needed to kind of contemplate to try to let it sink in, you know?

Yeah.

But that's futile.

There's. Yeah, because, you know, it's kind of funny.

I've been talking about this for two, almost three years now, I think, and there's clarity here, but I can't seem to. I was afraid I was going to muddy it because it's so clear, Right? It's so clear right now.

So somewhat I have brought you back into that appearance when I first got it. Because what's the point of talking about this when you can't show it?

Who's gonna believe this? Who can come if I. If I. You can't talk to. I mean, you can't. I don't know.

But what a relief, right? It's over. The seeking is over, man. There was nothing to seek anyway.

There was nothing to seek. It's already done.

Yeah. Like, it's here. It's already. It's always been here. It can never go away, too. Because if you can't think of the next.

Like, it doesn't matter.

Because it doesn't. Yeah, it's not. It's.

It's magic.

Like, it is.

It's gonna happen, but it's just a happening. Like.

Yeah. And this can't be intellectualized, can it?

No, because I'm like, I'm. I'm really trying. I'm trying hard to hold on to something, to, like, make it. Make it. Make it. I don't know, make it concrete.

But I feel like, what am I doing that for? Like, there's nothing to put. There's nothing to put concrete on there's nothing to.

Yeah.

There's nothing to hold on to. There's nothing.

No. And you know, it's funny, right? Because, you know, like, I have. I was seeking for longer than you, man. Like, I was like.

I became a spiritual teacher even. I was like, teaching this stuff. And. But I know that it was. It's all fake, you know, the teachings and everything. Because it can't be thought of this.

Yeah.

And it's so obvious. Like, once you. Once I really understood, like, I've always had the concept that, yeah, we're all one. There's no. There's only one consciousness.

There's only one. Whatever it is. There's only one of us here. You know, we're all one. But really not seeing it, though. Like, not seeing that.

If we're all one, how can there be this seeming division and these same different people and animals or, you know, all these different kingdoms of, you know, animals and plants and insects? But it's magic.

Because it's magic. We can't. You know, it's full. Funny, right? Because we just assume that we know what we're looking at, but we're looking at words, really.

We are looking at words and concepts.

That we put on something. Yeah. Like, what is this?

I don't.

What.

What am I?

Is this a body? Yeah. What is this?

I don't know what this is.

Yeah.

But I'm moving it.

Yeah.

Or something is. You know, it's happening.

It's happening. Yeah. Yeah. But also simultaneous. Is it really not happening? No. Yeah. Man.

Like, this is so trippy.

It is. It is. Right?

I don't even know what I'm doing. What am I doing?

Yeah. And you know, it's funny, right, Because I.

So there's just no right or wrong.

No, no.

Everything is just happening and it's just innocent and it's all coming from nowhere.

Yeah. And that's even saying too much. You know what I'm saying? If you look at it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's.

It's just everything is an appearance, but an appearance is also just a word. So you can see what's between reality and illusion. Yeah.

Just nothing.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like waking up from. It's. Every time that you go to. In between. It's like waking up from a dream. And then. Yeah. It clears.

It just drops.

It just.

Yeah. It's like. There's just a. Yeah.

Whatever.

Whatever, like, was.

It's like when you. When you. When you wake up from a dream. So. So silence is the eternal awakeness, basically. It's infinitely awake. Thinking is dreamlish. Yeah.

If you beginning to notice that now, right? It's like. Yeah, yeah. So it's awakened. It's awake and asleep simultaneously. Because the language is asleep, Right. It's dead. Whoa. Yeah.

And the awake is alive. You can also say that there's something that never moves, which is just silence. And then there's. There's coming and going, which is thoughts. Yeah.

It's because I like. Okay. I feel the silence now.

Yeah, you feel.

But then I get pulled back into the thoughts, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in between thoughts and no thoughts, it's back into that silence again. Yeah, yeah. It's. Wow, huh? It is. Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you know how many people. How many people email me now like every day that they stop seeking? It's insane, right? So it's insane. It's like. And I like it. That people. Yeah.

It's so good. It's so good, right? It's. Yeah. What a relief.

Oh, my God. It's all allowed.

It is, yeah. Oh, everything is allowed. Nothing is denied, basically. Right? It's the most compassionate thing. Yeah.

It's so loving.

It is.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, yeah. It's so loving. Right? And it's so open.

Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. And it's like when you see it, like when you see how thinking, it's just. It's not even satisfying, you know?

No, no.

Like when you get. When you do taste the silence, it's like. Yeah, that's it.

That's it. Yeah, yeah. And then you know what? Eventually the thinking will not even matter anymore because thinking really is just silence in a different angle.

Interesting. It's like he's just thinking. It's just like echoes of silence. It's like a broken telephone that you're hearing it as words, you know?

Have you ever played telephone? You know, like by the time it gets to the next person, it's completely different interpretation. Whoa. Yeah.

So it's silence basically just echoing and you think it's. It's a word.

And like, what memories too?

Like what memories?

Right now memories are just.

Yeah, yeah. It's just appearing out of nowhere. Everything is appearing out of nowhere. And that's just a thought too, right?

It's like at one point, I can't remember what's behind those eyes. If you cannot use words or thoughts or language, what's looking. What's looking right now? If you cannot use words or thoughts.

Is there a Sebastian behind there?

I guess not.

Yeah. So what's behind the thoughts then? If there's no Sebastian behind a thought.

I guess it cannot be described.

Yeah. So what's suffering then? If you cannot use your thoughts.

I.

Don'T know what is the sensation then? You cannot put a label of thought to it. What are feelings for sensations if you cannot put labels to it? If you cannot put a word to it?

I cannot put a word.

Yeah.

To it. It's just this.

Okay, so even this is too much words.

Yeah. Right.

So in this directness, I just wanted to take you, not you, because there's really no you aside from a thought. In this directness, in this silence, you know, words are appearing automatically without a thought behind it.

There's this emptiness, wholeness, so to speak, that is always. And it's just that simple. In this simplicity, in this directness, are there any problems?

What are problems?

There you go. In this directness, in this intimacy, is there an individual?

I guess.

Go ahead.

I guess not.

No. So where is this? What's happening right now? If you. If you're not able to use thoughts or words, what's occurring?

This myth of this.

Yeah. So these words are seemingly appearing with silence simultaneously. So are they really words even, or are they just silence?

Can repeat the question, please?

Yeah. These words that are coming out, is there a prior to it? Is there a thought behind it or. Even.

When you respond to me, in this directness, is there time, are there words? Are there thoughts in this immediacy?

No.

No. So all of thoughts, ideas, times individual, all of that is irrelevant in this?

Yes.

Yeah. Are there any thoughts right now?

What are thoughts?

There you go. So it's just really simple. No. No. No illusion, no words, not even any description. It's just very direct right now.

So seemingly the story only exists as a thought. The story of Sebastian, even the history, even the shamanism and all that kind of stuff, if there's only this emptiness. Did it even happen?

Guess not.

Yeah. It's only a thought, isn't it?

It's a thought.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Is there anything as a contracted energy right now?

Yes, this is also a thought.

It is also a thought. Yeah. So in the absence of thoughts, in this directness, there's just this unthinkable, unknowable, whatever this is.

Some people call it unconditional love, but that's too much of a thought as well. We can't even call it anything, can we?

I guess any label is not it.

Yeah. Is there a me or a no me?

Both.

Yeah. So it doesn't really matter. Yeah. They're both illusion. So it doesn't even matter what we say here. Right. Because it cannot really be caught.

We cannot really name this, but yet words are coming out and trying to explain this. They cannot really be explained. So in this directness. In this directness, there are really no problems, isn't it?

There are no problems and there are no problems whatever. There are no words really.

In this directness.

Yeah, there is. Yeah. Are you feeling. You can use words, Take a break into this story.

I feel. Feel relaxation.

Yeah.

And like the. The thoughts are getting slow.

Yeah. Openness, basically. Right? There's an open.

Yeah, it's open.

So let's just. Let's just put it that way. Even any thought is irrelevant, isn't it? Yeah. Time is irrelevant.

It doesn't even exist because that's just a thought, isn't it?

Yes. Yeah, I think so.

Yeah.

It's irrelevant.

Yeah. So in this openness, this emptiness. Let's just say it. That there's just this singularity that's even a thought. But let's just. Because I can't.

I have to use words somehow. So this emptiness is speaking. This emptiness is hearing. This emptiness is looking. This emptiness is being looked at. The emptiness is thinking.

So it's all really empty thoughts, isn't it? It is, yeah. It's blank.

And to be honest, there's a slight sense of fear arising.

That's also. That's also empty. Fear. It's afraid to be seen that it's also emptiness. It's a. It's trying to hold on, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.

But empty is trying to hold on to empties. It's always will come out as empty. It's crazy, isn't it?

I don't know what's going on.

Yeah, Beautiful. So those satsangs. Doesn't really matter anymore, Right?

Which.

I know. There you go. Yeah. Yes, there you go.

It doesn't matter. No, it's.

There's not. There's not even a non duality, isn't it? No, no. Or. Or anything that Andrea said. It doesn't matter.

Completely. Yeah, totally.

Yeah. Everything is just seemingly spirituality, even non duality, is just on a thought level. But thoughts are relevant, isn't it?

Totally.

Yeah.

That'S. It's crazy. It's a relief and.

Yeah.

And also fear comes with it.

The relief is empty. The fear is also empty. So it's just sensations and then there's a naming calling it, you know, relief or calling it fear.

But that's just emptiness appearing as whatever the unnameable appearing to be Named as fear or the unnameable called Relief. But both don't really matter. Doesn't it?

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Yeah.

True, true.

Yeah.

Nothing matters.

Nothing matters. So simple, isn't it?

It's very simple.

What if that's just another idea? What if even what I'm saying is just all ideas? And that's why the seeking continues, because you're trying to figure out the ideas.

And the ideas of awareness, the ideas of radical are both illusions, are both basically bullshit. I know it's hard to hear that sometimes, but everything that is a word is basically made up.

And the me or no me, you know, the self tries to land in one of the position, tries to figure out what's being said. Although from both sides, you know, one side will say it's all awareness, one side will say it's all nothing. But those are.

Those are just ideas again, so it's not neither. Neither whatever. Right? And what I'm trying to say is nothing different because it's all ideas. But what's between ideas and no ideas?

What's between a self or no self? What's between belief or no belief? So in the directness, in the directness, there's no opposites. There's not even any thoughts.

There's no next, there's no past. It's just very direct. And in this directness, there's nothing that needs to be known.

There's no such thing as this is it, because that's just another idea. The reason that the character keeps on seeking is because it thinks it found this is it, but it will get stuck there again for another 10 years.

So what's in between this is it and this is not it? Yeah. So is there any problem in. In the directness? No. Okay. What's between silence and no silence?

So there's this emptiness in this directness that I can't even call emptiness because the words don't really make sense anymore. Yeah, I get. What if. What is between getting it and not getting it? Yeah. Yeah. So what's happening right now, do you think? How do you feel? What's that?

Very, very, very good. Very, very good. Yeah. Good. Yeah, Very good. Simple. Simple. Yeah.

So the seeking of listening to others, you know, just creates an idea that someone knows this. No one knows this. No one knows this. How could it be known when it's unspeakable? It's unthinkable. So again, what's between thoughts and no thoughts?

Wow. Huh? There's this peace, this emptiness at this moment, right? Yeah. This moment Silent. Yeah. And that's the end of suffering. Simple.

No jargon, no message, no awareness, no abiding, no nothing being everything. No, nothing has ever been said. Because it's all ideas. Yes. Yes. So there's this. There's this directness. It's really fresh, isn't it?

You can't go to the past. You can go to the future. Because they're just ideas. Yeah. Simple. Yeah.

The end of seeking because everyone's just saying the same words over and over and over again. Then you start believing the words that being said or you start believing the practices that's being offered. But even no practice is practice.

No teaching is teaching. It's all the same bs. Yes. And it's okay. There's nothing wrong with words because wrong is just a word.

But in this clarity at this moment, there's nowhere else to go, isn't it? No, no. Yeah. And no need to go. No need to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the in the next idea doesn't come up. No. Yeah.

The teachings or the speaking will only try to propose a next. A next. A next. A next. You know, they try to go to the next. So that's a carrot dropping away. Contracted energy, hoping that there's a next.

That there's a drop. There's no such thing. There's no such thing as contracted energy. There's no such thing as awareness.

There's no such thing as any words that's being said. And everybody's just trying to sell words, beliefs, followers, because there's always going to be a speaker or a teacher that's above you.

There's no such thing as above you or below you. So this directness is just quite simple. Here it is. Speechlessness. Huh.

So many.

What's that? I had so many questions, you know, where are they? That's why, you know, the Q A sometimes just keeps the seeking going. Right.

So going to the meetings, going to the zooms. Although I have a zoom later on today, but at least I admit in the zoom that, you know what? This is just keeping the seeking going. Yeah, yeah.

That's okay. So this clarity is. Is the piece that you can't understand. The freedom from all the ideas of freedom. There's just here. Yeah. So 20 years.

Is it 20 years? Yeah, it's over. 30 years. 30 years. It's over. Yeah. Something basically. And attractive energy. It's all ideas. It's just all belief systems. Yeah.

Oh, it's so. It's so good to. To see that. That it's. It's a relief huh? Yeah. Yeah. Really have the basis. It's just ideas. Right. So all of these are just ideas. And.

And you're always looking for the next idea. Kind of like when tomorrow happens, can I. You know. Well, there's the same thing over. Happen all over again. Right. So. Yeah. And then you're looking at.

No, no, you've been watching my one on one side. Yeah, but it's not about you knowing it, and you know that it's not about knowing it.

Yeah.

Because there's something that you can't know, but you think you know, and that's what seems to create this illusion that you don't have any control or you have control. So what's. What's in between control and no control?

Yeah, you know, I've been hearing that. Nothing.

Yeah, yeah. No, no, but that's what's. That's just an idea again, what's between nothing and not nothing?

I don't know.

Yeah, but do you really. Are you just saying I don't know because you think you know?

I know that's what came out to my mom. I mean, like, originally, nothing was like, oh, that's what I need to. That's my answer.

Yeah.

But then when I said I don't know, that's, you know, this came out without sort of like, oh, yeah.

So that's it. That's it. Right. So when. When there's nothing happening in your head there. So it's really. I don't know. Right. What's wrong with I don't know? Yeah.

So if there's nothing wrong with I don't know, then there's no problem then. Because the. The problem seems to create a problem when you think that there is a time in the next, but there's no next. Really. Yeah.

So if you can't go to the next, you can't go to the past. What's wrong with right now? What's wrong with this moment?

Yeah, it was bothering me. It's like my children.

You're going to the past. I'm going really direct. You're going to the past. You go to the past. Right. So I want to be direct because I want to be direct. Right.

So if you can't go to the past, you can go to the future. What do you have?

Oh, nothing.

Yeah. Yeah. So really, thoughts are nothing.

Oh, I feel something in my body.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, my God. Yeah, exactly. My body shaking.

Yeah. Because it has nowhere to go. Right. The peace has nowhere to go. There's. That's. This is peace. Right. So peace that can't be known. Right.

And it's not what you think because all you have is thinking. You is the thinking. So if you can go to the past of the future, what do you have right now? Yeah. And it's peace, isn't it? It's peaceful.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Like, I'm on top of the room.

Yeah.

Oh, my goodness.

Why is it so easy when you, you know, you're in front of me.

You'Re making an excuse again. See.

When on my own, then. Oh, my God. One second. I'm having runny nose.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because like after, I see expectation. Like expectation.

Yeah, yeah. There's no after. There's no after. Again. Right. Again. What. What do you have when you don't have a past or a future?

Nothing.

Peace. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, gosh.

Yeah. It's okay to be at peace. Yeah.

Nothing. Nothing much to say now.

Yeah.

Oh, this is crazy. Oh, gosh. Yeah. You know, I was. I thought, you know, before I. Before. Before, you know, I said, oh, I'm gonna ask you a lot of things. This and that.

Now suddenly there's no more questions, right? Yeah. Because that's what it is. The thought wants to maintain a thought by creating thoughts. By thinking that there's an.

But the answer is also just a thought. Yeah. Yeah. And there's just this aliveness right now. Right. It's kind of like, oh, what is this?

Yeah, I feel like so alive. Like, oh, my God.

Yeah.

It feels like, oh, I thought I would be like, so.

And you were like, oh, I've listened to this before. So you're like, I know. No, no, no, no. It's not about knowing. Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's so nice and peaceful, isn't it? Hooray.

Oh, my God, I feel like my chest gonna explode.

Yes.

Because of sort of like happiness.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

I really enjoyed, you know that. Yeah. I always. And also, like, I've noticed I couldn't. The only. You're the only one that I could connect.

Yeah.

When, you know, like, I tried to listen to the other speakers, even Tony.

Yeah.

It doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah.

What they're talking about.

Yeah. Because it's coming to an intellectual. Right? This is not intellectual. Yeah, this is. This is. This is not. Understand. This is not a concept.

You know, confusion is not quite the right word for it. You know, it's not like.

Someone described this to me as. It's. There's this. There's this quietness in the chaos and that's always there. So that quietness, that. That stillness.

I can't even say the word stillness, any, you know, whatever is constantly there, that can never be, that can never be denied, is what seemingly is running the show. But it's not a source or any. Is what's happening and you're not apart from that.

Your thoughts are not apart from that, Your seeking is not apart from that. It's. It's. It's. It's this. It's this. It's like this blank canvas of.

Of pure light that's saying too much, that's emanating all of this imagery, the sounds, these feelings, the sensations, this longing. But that blank canvas is it. It appears in everything. It's that stillness, the depth of the ocean that I'm talking about. It's the immovable, it's the.

It's the unknowable. It's what people call this is it, or this, or whatever words that they can come up with. It, cannot capture it. And I know that there's a resonance.

It's basically what's resonating with that stillness or that blankness is. Is also it. It's almost like a relaxation, isn't it? Yeah. It's not the ebbing and flowing. Right. It's not the ups and downs.

It's what's in the up and it's what's in the down. It's what's in the thought, it's what's in the no thoughts. It's the. It's the. It's the silence in between all of the heartbeats.

It's in between everything. It's in everything. It's what's behind, it's what's beyond, it's in everything. There's not even a beyond or behind.

But you know what I'm trying to say. Yeah. And all that's going to appear, seemingly, is just residues of this and not this, but this appears in this and also in the. Not this.

It's in the background of everything, so to speak. It's the basis of everything. But there's no source. It's like the blank canvas where everything magically appears and disappears from.

It's not the you that you think of, but it's also the you that you can think of, think about. Isn't everything that you look at, it's what's looking at and what's being looked at, it's the same. There's no escaping it.

You can think, you can escape it, you can deny it, but it's all. Even in the denial of it. So the clarity cannot really be expressed in words.

If you notice the constant clarity that there's nothing and everything appearing again. These words are muddying it already. It's. Whatever. What's that?

Yeah.

Yeah, it.

I think you broke my brain.

Good. Wherever the brain goes, you know, the thoughts kind of like goes into polarity and everything, right? It's always constantly there, this.

This silence that you can't think of. That unthinkable, the unthinkable appears in every thought, but it's unthinkable. You will never figure it out because it's already there.

So it's like, you know, playing hide and seek. But there's only one person. So it's being longed for. Seems to be hidden because it's already in everything. See, we're looking for is in everything.

It's in the fan, in the wood and the air, in the taste of your mouth and every blink and everything in the thinkable and the unthinkable, in the silence and the chaos. It's in everything. It's the sanity and the madness. There's this sanity always right, and there's this madness.

Thinking everything is that every thought is like madness. It's like schizophrenia. But there's nothing wrong with it. It's just disappearance of thoughts and no thoughts and all this kind of stuff. But the. The.

The serenity or the. The sanity that. And it's hard to imagine that. But this doesn't move. Kind of like when you. You mentioned you were biking, right?

You're like, what the hell? I think you had that glimpse that nothing is really moving.

Yeah.

Yeah. When the seeker or the brain doesn't have anything to hold on to it, it breaks, it drowns a little bit, doesn't it? It's like. What's that?

There's not enough to say.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah. It's almost like nothing is really happening now, right.

Even a bigger, bigger degree before, you know, what's that feels like there's different stages of there's nothing happening.

Yeah. Yeah.

More active and it gets more passive.

And.

And that. And even that statement doesn't make sense anymore because that's just another thought.

I wanted to say that so I could flip it further, further down the. The void. You know what I'm saying? The bottomless void that, you know, it's just. And that's what. What.

What seemingly appears sometimes is that the void is. Is the void meaning that it doesn't have any depth? It doesn't have any. It doesn't have any seamless. It doesn't have any boundaries, right?

And the boundaries are only created to keep afloat. That. That. That seeking idea that there's something missing. But the void is the void already. It's empty and full, but it doesn't matter.

Those are words. It's like. It's like. It's like, you know, you are at the event horizon in a. In a. In a black hole. Right. Everything's getting sucked in.

And you're like, no. And that's freedom. The freedom that it's just whatever seems to be happening is not happening. Whatever seems to be.

It's kind of like being in the middle of an event horizon. I'm here, but I'm not here. In the black hole, there's no you. But in the apparent.

In the opposite of that, there is this you that keeps on getting sucked in, back and forth when there's no more resistance. It's just seen that there's really no duality. There's no black holes, there's no reality. There's no. And again, all of that means nothing.

That's just another rambling of something that cannot be figured out. And that's why I want to walk. Walk. You know, when I walk around in the morning, I don't know if you hear my talks. It's like I'm like, what.

Because especially like it when. When there's just this crispness of everything. Yeah. That can't. Cannot really be said in words and everything. So I'll name it now.

Like, you know, like it's. It's. It's just nuts, you know that for quite a while, I didn't really see the goldenness of everything.

The perfection that seems to appear, even if it's shitty. Right. Without the thoughts, without the polarization. I might not like it, but that's also perfect. Just like the seesaws all of a sudden went still.

You're like, oh, yeah, yeah.

It kind of reminds me of like. Like a mescaline trip almost. Just kind of. Mescaline.

Mescaline. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Really smooth, really organic, really natural type of. Just like stillness. Yeah, like mushrooms.

Yeah. It's like, you know, it's a little bit. Yeah. There's. There seems to be a. In mushroom. What? I find that there's usually a.

Like an elder or something beating you down, you know.

Stomping on your face.

Stopping on your face. You know, it's like, why. You know. But yeah, masculine is like this, right. It's just like, you know that clarity, right. That it's smooth, it's.

It's Edgeless. Yeah, yeah, it's natural, you know, it's. It's very natural. It's. It's very organic, kind of like, you know. Yeah. What a relief, huh? Silky smooth.

Yeah, yeah. Again, words cannot really describe this, but yeah, it has this. This edgelessness and smoothness about it. Softness. I like that word too.

Someone said softness. A soft stillness.

Yeah, soft stillness. We got these crystals over here in the window. All these rainbows.

Oh, beautiful. Yeah, it's amazing, huh? Sorry, go ahead.

We bought like, 10 of these things in Amazon. And the window, when the light hits, right? Like, this entire place just lights up with rainbows and prisms.

Yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. I used to get caught up in going, internalizing everything, right? You know, kind of like meditating, contemplating, inquiring.

And then one day I was just walking. I'm like, what the did I miss this for? Kind of like it's just this softness and everything, right?

I used to go inward to feel peace and everything, but there's no inward and there's no external things. It's just this. Nothing's missing. And the. The white in your shirt's making you look super enlightened right now. You see it?

One time, I was wearing this fluorescent, like, you know, this green kind of like, you know, like one of those, like, sports shirts and everything. And this guy goes, I. I think you're. You're like, super Saiyan enlightened right now. I'm like, oh, it's the shirt. It's the shirt.

You're just seeing this glowing shirt. I said, let me change. Go ahead.

The initial thought that comes up is like, there's more Clarify.

That's also it. That's it. Also. See how funny that it. It appears as something is lacking, or there's more in everything, but that's it. That's it.

Everything that will appear, is it. Everything that will arise, is it. That's it. Not to. That's it. When. When I saw this.

Well, you know, in the narrative of seeing this, that everything is this six years or five years. I don't know the timeline. Five years later, I'm still in awe of the mornings, you know, when I look at you know what I'm saying?

Like, it's so nuts, right? It's like, it's almost like I. I avoided this. Like, it's almost like I.

I was hiding from it, you know, saying it's like I didn't want to face up to it or whatever. This silence or whatever, you know, this. Whatever. And now I see it in everything. Right. So it's. It's. It's not. Not that there's more.

It's in everything. More or less. It's in the more, it's in the less. It's in the lack. It's in the abundance. But there's no such thing as opposites. It's just.

It's in everything. I didn't realize my gracket. My glasses were crooked the whole time. It was like this. What's that?

What's part of your stick?

That's what works. That's what usually happens is that, you know, they get a little bit, you know, confused with the glasses and it snaps out, you know, the.

The seeking a little bit.

What's that Disorient them a little bit?

Yeah.

The googly eyes coming out of the next.

I don't know. I. I really don't know.

There you go.

I mean.

Okay, so. So if. If that's. There's the. I don't know there. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know. Is there an eye to know or an I not to not know?

So since I know this is. There is a very. What has happened here is that. That this sense of the way I. I describe it is that there is no one really having an opinion anymore.

Yeah.

So it has been a gradual, like, weakening of. But. But if you ask me, is there an I there?

But who believes that I. Sorry, who believes that subtle eye. What's that subtle belief of that? I.

Well, say that is the story that I tell you to. To describe something that is.

But who. Who again, has the story?

I don't know.

Okay, good. So what's between I don't know and I know?

I mean, I have a. I have a problem with. To. To. To think I know.

Yeah. I mean, the.

The what. What has disappeared is the. The feeling that I know.

Okay. And also, let's even corner that a little bit because that's just coming more into stories. Sorry.

Okay.

Some brutal directness, then. Let's go for it. Right?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah, sure.

Everything that you're referring to is about the thought about the past, and that doesn't exist. So if you can go to the past or the future, what do you.

Have if I can't?

Yeah, you can't, because it's the past or the future. There's no reality to it. Right. So what is here?

I can say this because that's not the word anymore. I mean, like any. Either it's. It's is no answer to your question.

Yeah, but that's basically, again, you're just coming up with something that you've heard from before or you thought of before. What if you're coming here fresh and you, you know what's between a past and a future when you can't.

When the world of now is also an illusion, the world of time is an illusion.

I don't have any answer.

Yeah. Yeah. What's wrong with. I don't have any answer. Borrowing from seller Bob.

What is. Sorry, I didn't understand.

What is wrong with. I don't have any answer.

No, there's nothing wrong with that.

So the mind, the me, the self, whatever, only can go to the past in the future. So what if there's no feature and there's no answer? So it's obvious here.

Sorry, what did you say?

If. Okay, if you can't go to the future because there's, you know, that's just another thought.

But I feel that I'm just reacting to your questions and then that's just another thought about.

That's just another thought about the past. Right. You're trying to go back into the knowledge. What if you. What's in between knowledge and knowledge? Yeah.

So. So this is how it feels to me. And I'm. I'm really comfortable with you being as brutal as you want. So don't worry about that.

Okay?

I'm not trying to protect anything here. But if the, The. The only question answer that comes up, and of course that is also thought.

Yeah.

Is. I don't know. I mean, so there is.

Yeah. So. So, yeah. So if there's a blank here. Right. Then there's really nowhere to go to the past or the future. It's just blank.

And in this blankness, there's this. There's this subtlety, like a, you know, like an isness that does not need to be known because it doesn't have a past or future.

What if you're stuck with right now, where there's nothing to know? No past, no future. Yeah. Then there's clarity here. But it doesn't have any words. Doesn't it?

There is. There is. There is a fog.

That's just another thought. That's just another past thing. What if you. What if you unpeel that. That's just a word. What if you unpeel that and then what. What. What's there?

If you take away that word fog. But if you can go to the passage of feature, because that's just thought, they don't exist. And there's this.

Thoughts are Just like bookends, past and future. What if that is just. There's this wide openness here. There's this clarity here.

Without words, without thoughts, without comprehension, without understanding what already is. It's just often overlooked, because the thinking, the whole construct of Johan is the thought.

So the thought will keep on coming up, either about a past or future, when there's no such thing. You will say that there is a fog here, that's just an idea about the past. There is confusion. That's just another thing I can't seem to get there.

So all of this seeming, you know, appearances will keep on trying. But there's something in the middle, something in this neutrality. What is belief and no belief? Try to go there.

But it's between concept and no concept. What's between a self or no self, what's between me or no me? There's a clarity, but no words. What's between doing and non doing?

And there's like a hum here, like a really subtle hum. It's permanent. It's not about you hearing it, because you hearing it creates another finite movement. But it's here. Thoughts are just delusions.

Thoughts will try to come up to. To obscure what's already clear. It's just like a. It's just like a brain, you know, it's like a brainwash of words and thoughts and beliefs.

But the words, beliefs, the self, the mind can go in between, in the gap. But the gap actually is not a gap. Actually. It's. It's. It's. It's spacious. Without the guarding of the thought about the past, of the future.

Because those are illusions. It's like it's wide open.

And there's an often, you know, missed or overlooked or like a directness, like an energetic transmission with no subject object. It's just. It's everywhere. The thoughts will try to come in and we'll try to say that this is not it. But if you.

But that's just another thought about the past is trying to make up something of something that can't be made up here. There's something here that can't be made up. Some people say it's like. It's like a. A soft ringing, like a soft hum. How are you doing, Johan?

Good, good. Yeah. There's a piece here that is so clear, it's like. It's so. It's so. It's so subtle that you don't even notice it. But it's here. It's always here.

Not a belief, not a non belief.

I notice when you kind of blocked my tries to, to put labels on what was happening. I just noticed the, the, the tendency to move away from.

Oh yeah.

And then I thought also about the. What you are repeating all the time. Maybe I'll stop repeating it. But it's, it wasn't really a thought in that sense.

It was more of an acceptance that, that the tendency to think is also part of what is.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. But again, what's between thinking and non thinking? You're just really thinking that you're thinking.

But that's just another thought. Yeah. Everything that will try to come up to try to persuade you to negotiate that there's something missing. It's just a thought.

A thought will maintain a thought to create a thought to maintain a thought about reality. But reality is just a thought.

There is, there is normally. No, not much thoughts here. Yeah. It's.

And this has been for quite a long time that it's almost like, like someone is talking but very softly way back and because no one is listening anymore.

But what.

I don't really care about that.

But that was what. That is just another thought. That's just another landing.

The, the. Which one?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just under the landing. It's just another thought. It's.

How do you mean landing?

It has a position now that there. It's not much thoughts anymore and everything which is just another thought. And that's the trap.

Sometimes because you get complacent or get used to that kind of thing. Right. It's just the past.

I mean spent, spent some time trying to understand something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But what if, but what if understanding is just another thought? What if it doesn't matter? It doesn't matter any understanding. Right.

So sometimes the biggest obstacle here is the hoarding that we think that we know or we understand. But understand is just the etymology of understand is to stand under one's authority.

What if we take away all the authority like understanding, knowing and kind of stuff and so that what this is is seen clearly without the, the idea that I almost got this because I almost got this. It's just another thought. The reason I know this because I was there for quite a long time. Yeah. What is in between?

I got this and I, I, I don't get it. Because the mind is still trying to control the show by trying to say that you know what the thoughts are not relevant anymore.

It's soft now and everything. So you know what? I'm okay. Right. This is good. Good for me. Right. But that Maintains again that there is someone. That there's still something missing.

Right. It's just a different way of communicating it. Yeah. What if you can't use. Really use the past or the future? And what if you're. There's just this.

This moment right now. And this moment doesn't have a past or future. So any thoughts that try to create just. Just is irrelevant. Any even. I don't have much thoughts.

That's still a thought. I don't have thoughts. That's still a thought.

I really still feel the need to express something in this conversation also.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no worries.

So it's kind of like.

Sorry if I'm being too harsh, but you said.

Is this all you got? No, I'm. I'm really listening to this and I notice. Yeah. What you say is. Is true. I mean that when, when you ask these questions, it's. It is really not.

I can obviously not answer them.

Yeah.

And if I try to, then I of course activate them. And as you say.

But Johan, just.

Explanation.

Yeah, you said. Okay, I just. I just have to close my door. Just a second. Sorry.

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

No problem. Yeah, it. It. Sorry about that. Thank you so much.

No problem.

Oh, I'm so. Right. Just a second. It's okay. So all that you've got really is thoughts. And that's what you're.

That's what you keep on coming up with is what I'm trying to point out. Right. All the framework of Johan is just based on thoughts. It will go to the past to try to make it relevant. Try to go to the future saying that.

Is this all that you have? That kind of thing. Can you give me some more?

One, what's being pointed here directly over and over again, is that if you can't use your thoughts whatsoever, there's no time, there's no future. If you can't use concepts or beliefs or understandings or knowledge. Right. What's really here? What's in between a thought and no thought.

What's between real and unreal? And you've come up with an answer. What's in between that and what's in between that and what's in between that?

The self is trying to go somewhere, but it has nowhere to land. It will keep on trying to go to the future, the next. Because it's getting called out. That it. It's neither real.

What do you say?

It's. It's getting. It's getting called out. Right. Because it's. It's. It's. It's being Direct with it, the middle. There's no self.

Self or no self can go anywhere, right? Because it's. It's. There's no such thing as in the middle.

The mind can't comprehend that, so it tries to go to the past or the future because it's afraid to get figured out that it's irrelevant. You will only go to opposites. When it comes in directness, it doesn't. It doesn't exist. There's just this emptiness, like a piece.

Because there's no more opposing things. There's no more past or future. Not even a now. Every single word is made up. If you look up a word, you will just come up with more words.

If you engage in a thought, it just engages in more thoughts. Even if you say, don't have much thoughts anymore, that's still a thought. But there's this serenity, you know what I'm saying?

That's in between everything. An isness. Directness. Neither you are not you. Neither self or not. No self. It's just it. You can't name it. It's unthinkable. In the belief that.

That there's you. That is almost there. It's just another belief. What's between a belief and no belief? Yeah, it's the. I don't know, really.

And then that clarity, you know what I'm saying? Because it's not not knowing or, you know, whatever. There's this directness. The directness is always avoided by thoughts.

And then you'll have a feeling, and the feeling is hijacked by a thought that it's not. This is not it. So it's still a thought, any movement. It's like playing a chess with stillness.

And every move that you make, every thinking that you make is checkmate. Because this never really moves.

So it's this. What would you call this? Creating this, or. I can't put words because I'm a little bit worried about saying not the wrong thing.

But that's okay. Yeah, that's okay.

Yeah. You point out, like this, the space in which the. The mind cannot really have.

Yeah, yeah. It's like the abyss. It's like the void. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. It's empty.

The mind tries to go to, you know, space and time, basically, right? It tries to go. It uses time, but there's really no time aside. If there's no thought, then there's no time.

If there's no time, then there's no thought. Illusion of time.

Yeah. I mean, so. Yeah, yeah. But I still have some questions.

Go ahead. Go ahead with some questions.

Yeah.

It will try to go to the answers. It will try to come up with a question. Right. So what if the question is irrelevant? Because it will just try to try to find out something.

Is, is. Is. Is. Because what you are doing now is when you're. You're talking is that you are putting these questions. That puts my mind into a space where.

Or a place where it is silent.

Yeah.

Because it cannot really figure it out.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So it doesn't exist. And if it can't figure it out.

No. So. So then you will find. Half an hour. I will do other stuff.

No, no, no, no. But you're going. You're going to the future again, right? You're setting yourself for failure again. Right. Because in a half an hour.

Right, but there's no half an hour. What's half an hour? It's just a thought. So what I'm trying to say is it's okay.

It's not about getting rid of the thoughts, seeing that they're all irrelevant, that they're all lies.

Yeah, that is, that is an easy by for sure.

Yeah, that's.

That's obvious.

Yeah, but. But for who? The.

I thought.

Okay, but is there a thought, really?

No, I. I know that there is. What I describe as the. The gap is. Is where there is no such thing. It's obvious because there is no mind and there is no.

Yeah.

There is no function for it. But, but that, that.

But I mean, the thing is, you're too intelligent and the intelligence becomes a hindrance. This has nothing to do with intelligence, you know?

I know, I know.

Yeah.

I mean, I can say I'm. Everybody thinks that I'm. I'm thinking too much. I'm not thinking. I'm not thinking.

Don't worry. I thought it was. I. I thought it was. I was so intelligent, too, that I think that I kept on figuring this out.

I almost got this, but it took me 20 years, you know, I'm saying, to finally admit that I have no clue what this is. I have no idea.

And that. That is if. If you would ask me. And now I'm talking about me. That is what I would say. I mean, I have no clue.

There you go. So what's wrong with no clue?

Nothing.

Okay, so where's. Where's there to go if there's no clue, if there's no ideas?

Well, there is this recurring feeling in the body, but now I'm expressing a thought again.

That's a thought. Yeah, yeah. The Thoughts are all irrelevant. You know what? You're right.

In the story, you already have clarity, but you keep on it up by thinking about it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sorry.

No, no, no, no, no. I mean, I don't want to wait 20 years.

No.

And I. Who is I? And all that, but yeah, I mean, the, the. The. It's interesting.

Now.

There is no, There is no need if here to. To understand anything.

No, no, no. Stop it, Stop it. If you can't, there's, there's no, no need to understand, then what is there then? Because you keep on.

You keep on touching it and you keep on, you know what, screwing it up by, by you know, saying. Because you get there and then you're like, okay, there's nothing to understand. Stay there.

If there's no past and there's no future, then there was really no need to understand. This better be it. If there's no past or future, you have no choice. The only. The only thing. The only thing that you think that you have is thinking.

And all thinking is irrelevant. Everyone, every single one, Every single thought. Even feelings get hijacked by a thought.

Yeah.

Yeah. So if there's no past and there's no future, and then this must be it. Because you.

I don't know if you're beginning to see that thoughts are just past and future.

No, not fully, but I, I can. I, I kind of. I mean, it's. It's like obviously like a comparison with something or if there is a feeling, a need for.

For expressing something or reacting to something. And there's all these systems that are. Are connecting. So in that sense, of course, it's, It's. It's history.

But I mean, the more, like what makes more sense, whatever I'm who forever. Who is when it was to say that thoughts are irrelevant because that is. That is obviously the truth.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, the thinking that. The thinking process is, is.

It's like a virus. Yeah.

Yeah.

I've.

This is a quote from me five years ago. I've never thought a good thought in all my life. And my friends were laughing at me. Yeah, but I felt like that it's. The thinking process is just.

Yeah, yeah, it's just. It's. It's neither good or bad. You even have even haven't had a bad thought. Yeah, because.

No, no, no. Of course. But it was more.

What's missing out is that the eye is just a thought. It's not an I thought. It's just a thought. There's no I. It's Just a thought. Yeah, yeah. There's no belief, it's just a thought.

There's no true, it's just a thought. There's no reality. It's just a thought. There's no time, it's just a thought. Everything is a thought. And it's so simple as that.

You don't even have to believe or understand or learn anything. Just the moment that you catch a thought is a thought. What is a thought? I have no idea what it is.

And that's okay because the moment that I have more ideas of what the thought is, that's just more thought. Did not just keep on thinking and thinking and thinking and you know, it's a loop. Right?

So the thought maintains a thought about a thought, but what a thought is, is just a thought. Who knows what a thought is? Who knows? Because knowing is just a thought. So there's nothing to know. There's nothing to, to go.

So in between thoughts and no thoughts, what's it? There's just clarity without words. We caught up in words. Every single word is made up. Clarity without words. That's it.

And if a word comes up, it's made up. If a word comes up, it's made up. A thought is just made up of words. So thought is a bunch of made up words. Basically. There's no reality to it.

Even reality is a thought. It's a word, it's made up.

Struck me very strongly the other day about beliefs and how when a belief is, has disappeared, then there is no like solidity in whatever was believed.

Yeah, but that's just another belief.

Yeah, no, it's a intellectual idea about something.

Just intellectual seesaw. Right. It doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah. Belief, even, no, belief is still a belief. Yeah, Doubt is just belief as well.

Sorry, what did you say?

Even doubt is just another version of belief. Yeah, it's still using, it's still utilizing the mind that does not exist. Yeah, yeah.

The moment that it, it, it thinks again, then it believes, it understands, it thinks. But that's just all thought. Belief is just a thought.

And no belief is just a thought.

Exactly. Yeah, it's. It all comes down to thoughts. You want to go further? It all comes down to words. All words are made up.

Every single word that's been ever uttered is made up. Consciousness, God, nothing, everything. So let's just say this really clearly.

All of the teachers and speakers are just selling you words, hoping that you believe what they say.

Sorry, you know what?

Hoping that they believe what they say. Yeah, yeah. It's just really sobriety from words, thoughts, beliefs. That's it.

Seeming to understand what I understand.

Yeah, sure.

I know is not really. It's not a comprehensible thing in any event, but I still, I still feel the need.

Yeah.

To experience something different.

Yeah.

Knowing. Knowing that, you know, that that itself is part of what is.

Yeah.

And you know, also, I mean, you know, generally some of the speakers will say, I think you too, that whatever is being experienced is what is totality.

Okay.

Right in the moment. Yeah, but that's not good enough.

It is not good enough. But what if you can't go to the next? It's just a thought.

It's kind of like I'm going to the next in the past at the same time.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. What if you can't use time? What if you can't use thought? Because thoughts, time. And time is thought. Right. Right. Yeah, but.

All these qu.

I'm.

I'm pretty good at coming up with these questions now, having heard you say them.

Yeah. But if you can't go to the. You can't go to the past, then what's the question is it's irrelevant.

Right.

Yeah. So I mean, it's like nipping the bud before it. It starts to flower.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because all that you really have is concepts and, and thoughts and ideas and everything. What are you without those?

Then he goes back into this indescribable. And it's simple. The mind seems to complicate it.

But if you put the mind in a corner of like what's between mind and no mind, then it goes blank again. Right. Because nothing that can really be said here, you can keep on coming up with a whole bunch of stuff. Right.

But if you nip it at the bug, then it doesn't have anywhere to go. There's always going to be a feeling of something. Miss a feeling. And when the thought interprets it, there's something missing.

But if you take away that something missing in the feeling, it's just sensations. That's basically it.

And images.

It. And images. Yeah. It's inherent. You know what I'm saying that there's always a feeling of. We don't even know it's something missing.

There's just a feeling always. Right. A feeling of separation, a feeling of whatever.

But if it doesn't go any further, if you have never heard of non duality, then you're just going to look for the next, you know, collection of, I don't know, cars or, you know, or. Or movies or music that you like. Right. But at Least that's not as dangerous as seeking for something. Yeah. That's not there.

And that's the sufferings because you can't find what's missing. And you go back over and over again, you'll hear suggestions, you know, when the contracted energy falls away, right. Then it's home.

So you're going to the next, the next, the next, the next.

And you have. If you have this need, it's the eye and the eye.

That's Right.

And you don't want the eye.

You don't want. You nip it at the butt.

Never had it. It was just an illusion.

It's just an illusion. There is. So people have been coming up with me over and over, over again, again with, with this scientific thing now. And I haven't really.

I haven't had time, you know, and I'm not really interested, to be honest with you. Right. But it's, it's. People are saying this is similar now to that new finding, Right. That from a. That the radical non.

Duality speaking from one side of the brain perspective. Right. It's almost like a. It's almost like a delusion. There's no one here. There's nothing to do.

And everything that's from the right brain or something. I'm not sure which one it is. That's more kind of like wholeness and everything. Right. So.

But if they're communicating to an audience that's thinking from the opposite side of the brain.

Yeah, the analytic side.

The analytic side, yeah. So the analytic side is like, well, I don't feel that this is everything. I don't feel that, you know, so that there's always. So the.

The analytic side and the creative side, let's just call it that. Right. Is simultaneous. So even if that feeling of like, well, I gotta find something's missing, then when the.

That side starts to merge as like in a hole and hole and not. It's because we. We tend to wear. One side is going to say it's whole and one side is going to say it's not.

But when you go in between the wholeness and the not whole vanishes because we've been operating from the analytic side as a seeker. So that analytic side will never be fulfilled because they're talking about a side that is not possible for analysis. Sure. Yeah.

So therefore it keeps the seekers trapped into that ideology of one side when they can't get it, even if you understand it.

Most people understand that there's nothing happening, there's nothing whatever, but they will never get that experience because they're waiting for the next. So in between concepts and non conceptual, there's something that you can't talk about. Right? Yeah.

And that's the piece that pass it all understanding, it's direct, it's not in. It's not a thought, it's not a philosophy, it's not a. It's not something that can be said.

So saying over and over and over and over again reinforces that seeking that there's something to get. And then when you defend the belief, then you're trapped in that belief system.

So the, the belief in everything you just said.

Yeah.

Is sort of defeats itself.

Yeah. What's between belief and non belief? Again, I'm asking people not to believe me. Right.

Because all my words, anyone's words is just basically blah blah, blah, blah blah. Right. So this is something that really can't be said. And they say it, it can't be said. It's already the case. Right.

But for the mind, it goes, I want to get to. It's already the case for the thinker, it wants to go, go to. I want to see. It's already the case, it will never see it.

So therefore what's being said now is all carrots.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So this is, this is great. But the fear comes up.

Yeah.

What about next?

Well, there's no nexus. Irrelevant.

Right.

Yeah.