In this episode of The Good Enough Counsellors Podcast, I’m joined by the incredible Suzanne Wagg, an integrative therapist with a fascinating journey into private practice. From 12 years in the military to working in education and the NHS, Suzanne’s story is one of resilience, growth, and learning to trust her instincts.

After receiving life-changing therapy following a brain tumour diagnosis, Suzanne knew she wanted to help others. She later became a staff counsellor at the very hospital that saved her life before transitioning into private practice, where she now works flexibly from her beautiful garden office in Lichfield.

We chat about:

• The life events that shaped her as a therapist
• The challenges (and surprising advantages) of moving 26 times before settling down
• How she found confidence in marketing herself (with some help from her cat, Greybear!)
• The power of flexibility and trusting your gut in private practice
• Why being real, human, and a little bit sweary makes all the difference in therapy

Suzanne also shares her philosophy on hope, self-trust, and not getting caught up in comparison traps. If you’ve ever struggled with self-doubt in your practice, this is an episode you won’t want to miss!

One of the best pieces of advice was it's your business.

I still refer back to frameworks and check in with myself and reflective and having the supervision and the insurance and all the things that we know.

But actually if I like to be flexible and not conform to how it should be done, I work in my way.

And I remember my old supervisor saying, when I'm connected to my soul and I'm listening to that part, that's when the best work happens.

So welcome to the Good Enough Counsellors Podcast and today I've got the pleasure of interviewing Suzanne Wagg, who I think you're going to find really interesting to listen to.

And those of you that are on the Goodenough Counsellors Facebook group will know her as Susie Margaret.

So there is somebody else who's going to feature in the podcast who's quite a big famous figure.

So we'll talk about that in a bit.

So Susie's had a really sort of interesting journey.

So she's worked in the military, served in the military for 12 years, then worked in education and the NHS.

And she's got a wealth of experience that informs her work as an integrative therapist.

Her story is one of resilience, purpose and a full circle moment.

After receiving life changing therapy following a brain tumour diagnosis, she later became a staff counsellor at the very hospital that saved her life.

So Suzanne now runs a thriving private practice from her garden office in Litchfield and she's here to share what helped her build a successful practice and what she's learned along the way.

And if we're lucky, we will get to hear about that famous individual which is her cat, Gray Bear.

So, Suzanne, welcome to the podcast.

It's so great to have you here.

Thank you.

It's good to be here.

Yeah.

So, you know, it is a really interesting story that you've got, isn't it, that you served in the military and the education and the nhs.

So what drew you to become a therapist?

It's strange hearing you talk about that and talk about the journey and all those things, because on one hand it feels like, oh, my goodness, that is quite a lot when I hear it out loud.

But I think when you've lived through it and it almost becomes normalized, that, oh, brain tumor.

That's just a thing.

True.

Yeah, it's just a thing, Just a small part of my life.

And I think all of these experiences kind of led me to where I am now.

Yeah.

Working with children with lots of neurodiversity and additional needs physically and helping them access the curriculum.

And it struck me how important it was for people to have a voice.

Yeah.

When they can't advocate for themselves.

And I was still kind of toying with the idea of, you know, I'd really love to when I grow up, I'd really like to do that.

I was probably in my 30s at this point.

I was still thinking when I grow up.

And honestly I look back at that period as it was probably one of.

One of the best things to ever have happened to me.

Such a weird perspective.

Yeah.

But it just turned everything on its head because I thought, well, if not now, when?

Yeah.

Amazing.

So it took quite a lot of determination actually by sense of things to.

To follow it through and to keep it.

Must have been hard sort of.

Because you never sort of progressed with the same cohort of people you were moving around between.

Different.

Yeah, I guess so.

But I think for me that was my norm.

Weirdly, what I'm finding now, because we've lived in Litchfield for nearly five years and it's the longest because I'm.

I grew up in a military family and then joined the military, married the military.

I've lived in 26 houses and I'm 48.

Yeah.

So for me, not change is the change.

Yeah.

So actually I'm quite used to that.

What is weird is what friendships last like down the road longer than two years.

Yeah.

And I find that comes up a lot in the work actually, about adult friendships and navigating around that.

Yeah, I was wondering about that actually, if you find that experience that you've had because it's a very almost nomadic lifestyle, isn't it, just moving around the whole time.

Do you find that almost like you attract people who've got similar experiences or quirky.

I think Slightly different, slightly off the wall, which.

Which I like and I'm naturally.

And one thing that going through a lot of the experiences that I've been through has given me is that strong sense of self.

That's not to say every now and then it doesn't kind of dip away.

But generally being quite content with who I am and focusing on where I'm at rather than where I feel I should be when I go down that.

That road is not necessarily a good place to be, but actually accepting me for who I am.

That's really interesting.

So you think that the fact that you had to move so much just meant that you almost sort of became quite contained in knowing yourself.

Yeah, yeah.

Rather than feeling sort of lost because you kept chopping and changing.

Yeah, yeah.

My son weirdly summed up really well.

He wrote a piece for something he was doing for university around home and what home is.

And he said he's had to discover home within himself.

Yeah.

Which I think is lovely because actually then he gets to carry it around wherever he is, that's home.

And that is kind of how I feel.

Although it is nice to now having put roots down.

But definitely the clients are attract.

I do get veterans, I think, because.

And I promise not to, I'm quite sweary I get veterans and the NHS because they see my experience in that.

Yeah.

You said that having the brain tumour so changed everything.

So how does it come into your work, do you think?

That moment, you know, where you thought to yourself, right, this is it, now I've got to almost grab life while I can.

How does that.

Does it influence your work, do you think?

Does it come into the work?

I think so, because I have quite an a nothing is insurmountable attitude in general.

And I'm.

And I'll often say to people, it's not about polishing poop for one of a better expression, but it is about recognizing where you're at and what you can do about it and taking autonomy.

I can never say that word.

Taking your.

Your own agency and your own autonomy.

Always saying that wrong.

I know what you mean.

Autonomy.

Yeah, you know what I mean.

Autonomy.

And I'll do that with clients.

And I think being.

Being able to make mistakes like that and being okay with it and laughing and recognizing that everything doesn't always go wrong is quite a good way of modeling.

When I was an NHS staff counsellor, I did an extra diploma in solution focused therapy.

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

Now I'm absolutely not a solution focused purist because I draw my Person centered route.

But for me, having that kind of hopeful.

Okay, well, how is it you want to feel?

I think of it like stand with your left and your right foot with your left foot in what's going on and let's validate and let's spend time there.

But then this right foot gently in hope.

Okay, so what's the so what of that?

How is this serving you now?

How is it you want to feel?

So it feels like there's space for both.

It's interesting actually.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently.

I think with everything that's going on in the world at the moment, which could, you could feel quite powerless about.

But I think there's something around, like you say, using your own agency and autonomy and thinking, almost sort of finding, you know, what can I.

How can I choose my response to this situation?

And it's not like you say, polishing poop, but it is about, you know, how can I exercise my own personal power.

And I think for me that that gives me a lot of hope anyway.

It gives me a sense of agency, you know, I can do something.

Even if it's just the way I choose to respond in my own life, it's still something that I can do.

And for me, I find that a really hopeful thing in my life.

So I sort of definitely get where you're coming from.

I think, I think it's really important.

Do you find that clients respond to that?

Yeah, absolutely.

Because I think, because I do have bucket loads of hope and I don't shy away from.

Do you know, the world is in a hell of a state.

There's a lot of scary things happening and we can't shy away from that.

And the impact it's having here and in the world, wider world is horrendous.

Yeah.

But if we can't do anything about it, we kind of have to control where we're at.

So by me remaining hopeful.

And I'll often say to clients, you know, if you, if you're finding it difficult to have hope at the moment, it's okay.

You can borrow some of mine for now because I have loads.

It's great, have a bit of that.

But it's finding that and it isn't about if you're feeling at a zero.

And so I ain't getting out of bed.

Everything's horrendous.

It's not about trying to jump for the 10, it is about thinking, okay, what would I need to notice for it to be a 0.5 day?

Yeah, just a Little, tiny, tiny, tiny.

Thin off, just that one little thing.

What could give you that?

Because when you find that tiny little chink, is it glimmers that they talk about looking for?

Yeah.

Which I like.

I kind of live in a glimmery world because that's how I choose to.

You look for the glimmers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I agree.

And I think that comes across sort of like, you know, when you.

When we see you on social media, that.

That does actually come across.

Because the other thing, obviously, because I know you from social media, is you really love your sport, don't you?

And you love your exercise.

And do you think that that part of that attitude comes from.

You've got a really sort of can do attitude about your exercise, haven't you?

I mean, I imagine that's partly the military training.

Do you think that's it's all sort of like part of who Suzanne's become because of that sort of military background?

Yeah, because it's kind of expected when you're in the military that you maintain a level of fitness.

So it's just kind of become part of who I am.

But I think as I'm getting older and this is definitely a more healthy shift for me, I'm now training to become the old lady that I want to be.

Yeah.

I want to be mentally resilient.

My mum's 82 and she does aqua aerobics three days a week.

Yeah.

And I think, do you know what?

That's really cool.

And I think I might have shared with you.

Certainly on social media.

I had an injury would put me in a boot all over Christmas and oh my goodness, the inner child was out.

I was so cross, so grumpy initially.

Yeah.

But I had to find a way around it and I had to navigate it.

And that did make me kind of lean into other things that I can't just rely on my physical self care basket.

I have to have other things because my tendency is, oh, well, I'll go for a run and I'll feel better, which I usually do, but I can't run at the moment, so.

Okay, what do I do?

Well, I can't wallow.

Yeah.

I did see a post the other day that you did about your self care and it was sort of like other.

It was other things, wasn't it?

You do other things as well.

I mean, I've seen you doing jigsaws, but there's other things as well.

Yeah.

Painting pots and things.

Yeah.

Through varying levels of description.

Mainly cats, obviously.

Yeah.

So tell Us, you know, just sort of going back to the career bit.

What was it like to go back to the hospital where you'd actually had.

Oh, my goodness.

I was so excited when I got that job that I could have actually weed.

I'm so excited, like.

And I didn't get it at first.

So the first round of interviews and I went for the interview and I didn't really know what Solution Focus was and they were looking for Solution Focus, so I kind of winged it and I didn't get the job because I absolutely didn't deserve to get the job because I wasn't a solution focused therapist and I had not done my research.

And then they re advertised because they were expanding the team.

Yeah.

And I really wanted that job.

I was heartbroken when I didn't get it.

And so I wrote to the head and said, I recognize that I've just been through the interview process, but I think I'd be a really good fit for you and I think you should pick me and give me another chance.

And this is why.

And they invited me back in and said, okay, so you've had an interview.

Come in and do us a presentation on stress and resilience management.

And I was a trainer when I was in the raf and I loved that.

I love doing that kind of stuff.

And that, unbeknownst to me, was actually part of the role.

And that was one of my favorite parts of the role, getting to talk to the staff about stress and resilience management and what that looks like and how it can help them.

They used to put me on at 3 o'clock on a Friday afternoon because they knew nobody was going to fall asleep in my session because I'd have people on their feet and we'd have a laugh and just have some fun with it.

That was one of the best parts.

I was quite boundaried when I went in because the team that actually did my surgery and I was still under, I would.

I would be.

They'd be kind of phased out and I wouldn't see them.

Yeah.

See their colleagues.

But for me, if somebody's held my brain, I'm not quite sure I want to hear about how stressed they are because that's not a thing.

And I need to think that they're okay.

Yeah, yeah.

And what sort of issues were you dealing with when you were working with the staff there?

What comes up for NHS people?

A lot of relationships and it can be a really.

It was mainly to do with people, which really surprised me, actually.

It wasn't.

And then Covid came.

Yeah, it was the most bizarre time because I was face to face, but because of my medical category, I was then shielding, so I had to.

And I'd never done online therapy before.

I was like, what?

So I quickly did an online course to kind of get a little bit of.

I mean, yeah, we've seen in this podcast, tech is not my favorite thing.

And a ambulance turned up at my house because we lived in High Wycombe at the time, from Birmingham Hospital, with a laptop and.

And a mobile phone and went, okay, there you go.

Yeah, okay.

Terrifying.

Yeah, yeah.

And I spoke to a lot of staff that were in.

On the periphery.

So a lot of the staff that weren't necessarily intensive care trained, that were then working in intensive care, but again, a lot of it was still around those interpersonal relationships and the impact that has.

It's the people, they can put up with a lot from work if they're not managed properly and it's that kind of work.

And sadly, there were little pockets where it was.

Yeah, it was sad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Quite a challenging environment and obviously, you know, the.

They.

I think it's a really good service that they've still got at the hospital, that the staff.

And it was purely a staff counsellor, so we were on hand for the staff for whatever was going on for them.

And so it's a massive variety.

It was a really great place to cut my teeth before I went to private practice.

Diverse client group.

Yeah.

Ages, ethnicity and gender, from admin assistants, technical cleaners, doctors.

Like just everybody.

Yeah, yeah.

But it was amazing.

I loved it.

Yeah.

Really interesting work.

And did you have to stop that because you were moving?

Was that the reason why you left?

No, I did that for just under three years and alongside it I set up my private practice.

And my private practice was just growing.

Yeah.

And so I was having to turn people away and for me, the travel became a bit fatiguing and I had to weigh up, actually.

It's been an amazing experience, but I want to leave while I still love it.

And I didn't want to get kind of worn down with the travel because the train travel is great when trains work.

Yeah.

7:00 on a Monday morning or whatever.

Yeah.

And as my private practice expanded, I didn't have a choice.

So what do you think's been the key to your success in your private practice?

Oh, I knew you were going to ask this and it's such.

It's such a.

I think Because I'm a bit.

I remember a supervisor saying, you're a bit of an anomaly because you're a white, straight, middle aged woman.

Yeah.

And you attract clients that don't look like you identify as you.

And.

And I don't.

You don't really know why.

Yeah.

And I kind of wish I did.

I wish I could say, okay, is this.

Because then I think I asked for feedback.

I asked where people have found me.

And a lot of the feedback I've had is when they read the profile, I stand out because they get a flavor that I am actually like we all are.

But somehow I've managed to convey I'm just a real life human that gets it wrong.

Somebody says you wear really bright colors, there's cats in your.

There's pictures of you doing sport, there's pictures of you eating cake and no filters that I look like what I look like.

Yeah.

And all my social media presence.

To be fair, I was really scared of social media at first, terrified that I would share something I wasn't allowed to share and I didn't understand, like who owned what and oh my goodness, how do grownups do this?

Because I have no idea.

So I thought, right, I'm only going to share pictures that I've taken.

So when I first started, I would take random pictures with my business cards sat in front.

So I'd have Gray Bear holding my business card.

I'd have them with my trainers with a glass of fizz.

And that kind of became the theme.

And then I eventually, now I've started writing blogs, which seems to be driving.

And again, not really sure how it works, SEO e trafficky thing to my website.

Yeah.

So you're just sort of getting people mainly through the directories and your website, then by the sides of things.

Yeah, yeah.

And now I've come more established.

It's word of mouth.

Yeah.

People that know me, other therapists that know me.

I put.

I.

I always got some of these in my pocket.

Yeah.

And random cafes in Litchfield.

If they've got a notice board, they've probably got one of my cards on it the old fashioned way.

Networking that way.

Yeah.

And have you sort of noticed any dip in your inquiries recently?

Because a lot of people have been having dips.

I think.

I was looking at this because I think sometimes you can get caught up in what's going on in social media and you're reading.

And then I scare myself.

Yeah.

And I have a.

I'm as full as I need to be at the moment and yet always I have the thought, but I've not had an inquiry for a week.

Even though I know I can't take them on, I'm still scared and think, oh no, the wheels are gonna come off and that's it.

And I still have those moments.

But it's been pretty consistent and I'm Probably, I think 20 is my max per week and I usually sit at about the 15 mark and that's been consistent for the past four years.

So there's potentially been a slight dip to last year, but it hasn't impacted my practice, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

And you're just finding, I think you know, when you've been in practice for a little while and you're getting known then as you say, you start getting the returning clients and the word of mouth referrals as well.

Yeah, definitely the returnees.

And I run a really flexible diary because I work with shift workers, I work with a lot of teachers, I work with a lot of parents.

And because I was trained in the solution focus and the single session, I have some that are weekly, very few, a few that are too weekly.

And now I have some clients that have like hour long check in, well being sessions once a month or once every two months.

It does mean my diary.

And I say that to clients.

Okay.

My diary is a complete hot mess, a little bit like life.

And if we agree that our diaries can align, then the way I work it, I only have a limit of the amount of clients I have.

I have a limit of the amount of clients I have in one day.

And I ask that you trust that.

But if you're looking for a therapist, that's 1:00 every Tuesday, that's potentially not me.

Yeah.

Because I can't offer that.

Yeah.

And I think as long as you're honest with people.

Yeah.

And that sort of flexibility probably really works for the people that you're working with.

It really does got shifts, you've got different times, you're available.

And for some people you almost accidentally end up in a routine where they do end up coming at the same time, but I don't guarantee it.

Yeah.

So that then nobody's disappointed.

And I think the other thing that's quite key to attracting clients is for me it's really important to have that sort of 20 minute initial chat that is absolutely valuable.

I think I worked out the other day, I've got something like a 97% conversion rate from that.

So it really works.

It's interesting, isn't it?

So tell us a bit more about what you do in that 20 minutes.

So I first of all invite them to tell me a little bit about what's brought them.

And before even that, the stage before that, I have an email that I send what it's going to be about and say it's just, it's a 20 minute session to use how you wish to get a sense of what it might be like to be in the space together.

And.

And I always say I might not be the right therapist for you.

And that is okay.

We might not be a good fit because that is really important and I'm not going to be offended if you have a session with me and go, oh, wow, Suzanne, your way is not for me.

I'm not going to take offense of that.

And in the same breath, if I don't think I'm the right therapist, if I don't feel that I am working within my levels, I'm going to be really honest with you about that because yes, it's my living, but you matter.

This stuff really matters to have and I genuinely believe that.

And I have referred on, but I think just getting a flavor of what's bringing them, whether they've had therapy before, what their diary like, have they got any questions?

I always end on the a really random question to ask them if they've got a cat allergy.

Yeah.

That's important, isn't it?

I say it kind of in jest, but it's only important if it's important.

And it is a bit of an icebreaker.

You know, it generally makes people laugh.

But I say, you know, you're not going to turn up and find my office full of fur.

It is a clean environment.

But if you've got a serious allergy, I can't guarantee that that little rat bag hasn't snuck in between sessions.

He doesn't come into sessions because he's a nightmare.

Yeah.

But he does knock on the door and annoying as ever.

Gone down the Gray bear tangent.

Yeah.

So tell us while we're on that little gray bear tangent, because he does feature.

How did he become such a key part of your online presence?

I don't know.

Just accidentally because he's cute and I was doing a.

I was trying to show because I'd love to be into yoga.

I think you do yoga, don't you?

Yeah, yeah.

And I really struggle and I keep thinking.

So I did some yoga for therapists a little while ago and he came in and was trying to join in and I caught him on camera.

Yeah.

With him doing the moves with Me and then biting me and us giggling and it ended up turning into a place and it's had the most views.

I do some deep and meaningful.

No, screw the cat.

Because I think people like the fun.

Yeah.

And it's always those.

It always takes me to my surprise.

It's Those posts that are 1.

Pictures of me when I've.

When I dropped spaghetti sauce in the middle of Tesco's, my son snapped a picture of me.

Yeah.

I saw one on Pancake Day, I think.

Yeah.

And Pancake Day.

Right.

Where I'd flip the pack and the whole art went everywhere.

And I think modeling the I'm human is so important.

Yeah, I agree with you.

It's absolutely, you know, just sort of.

People just need to know because they're going to come and bring you stuff that they're not particularly proud of.

They need to know that that's going to be okay.

And I think they don't need to know about me.

The sessions are very much about them.

Yeah, absolutely.

It's building up that sort of trust with you.

They can tell you stuff and you won't.

And I think as therapists, sometimes we can overthink it, that, you know, I've seen questions posed or what if they ask me how I am?

What if they ask me if I've been.

Well, I just answer, yeah, yeah, I am going holiday, thanks very much for asking.

And then I think you very quickly become adept at steering it back.

Yeah.

It's not necessarily anything deeper than them being polite.

And often I find that the arrival in the ending can be quite grounding to have that chat with.

Yeah, yeah, I agree with you there.

Yeah.

It's just sort of a way of settling is.

And breaking the ice, isn't it?

And then coming back up again at the end.

And sometimes I think just, you know, just treating people as people.

They're just people, aren't they?

And I think we can, like you say, get a bit anxious about that and sometimes that can be to the detriment of the client, maybe.

So.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think being human, I got rescued by a spider that had gone in my trainer with a client and I squealed because he pointed it out.

He went, do you know there's like a critter on your trainer?

And it went.

And I.

My trainer came off and flew across the room.

I was like, I'm so sorry.

It was mortifying.

But he was like, shall I get rid of that for you?

Yes, please, yes.

It's quite a nice moment, actually, I should think.

Yeah, it was and often it is those moments so you can visibly see people relax.

Yeah, yeah, I think so.

I think so.

Tell us about your garden office.

So I'm sat in it.

I wouldn't have guessed, actually.

I thought you were in your house.

No, this is my garden office.

I don't know actually about all.

All cancer, but I have my.

My chairs are set out so they're side by side.

Yeah, you can see because I find a lot of my clients and I struggle with the sitting face to face because I find it a little confronting.

Yeah, yeah, sorry.

This is Amber.

That.

That's very unusual to hear.

Actually, you don't hear about that very often.

So tell us more about that.

A lot of my.

I do work with, with lots of clients that don't like me sitting, staring, feel a little intense.

And the idea came to me was because my son opens up when we're sat in the car.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And it's kind of that.

And I as a client, I have walk and talk therapy and I like to walk beside that.

We're kind of angled, like naturally, but it gives the client the choice to look at me or look offset and so not feel that if they are needing a moment that I'm staring at them.

Yeah, because it can feel very sort of like spotlights on you, can't it, as a client?

And that can feel very.

It's quite leveling as well because you're both kind of side by side.

They're identical chairs.

They're side by side.

The layout mirrors.

I generally sit in the same chair, but I will offer the client the choice.

Yeah, yeah.

Because I'm kind of angled, so generally I'm sat like that.

So I'll sit off center.

And then when we're talking and I'm engaging.

Yeah, it's really interesting.

I'd be fascinated to hear if anybody else does that as well.

Really?

Yeah.

It's not something that ever occurred to me because I don't think it occurred to me to put them opposite.

Yeah, I think because in the NHS they were opposite and I'd always move them because I didn't like it.

Now, that's really interesting, isn't it?

And again, that says something about, you know how you said earlier about that sense of moving from place to place and it gave you that sort of sense of self.

And that's a real example of you listening to your sense of self and thinking, now this just doesn't feel right to me.

So I'm going to listen to what I don't feel Is right.

And move it around.

Yeah.

And I think that is so key in private practice.

One of the best pieces of advice was, it's your business.

It turns out you can, you know, as long as you're working ethically.

And even all these years later, I still refer back to frameworks and check in with myself and reflective and having the supervision and the insurance and all and all the things that we know.

But actually, if I like to be flexible and not conform to how it should be done, I work in my way.

And I remember my old supervisor saying, when I'm connected to my soul and I'm listening to that part, that's when the best work happens.

It's when I get in my head and I start going cognitively and I start to panic and think, am I actually a therapist?

Am I like a real life therapist.

Or oh, my goodness, what am I doing here?

I think I should go.

And then in the night when you can't sleep and I'm trying all the things that I talk to clients about, and I think none of this works right.

I'm going to work in white stuff.

That's it.

I'm not doing it anymore.

Yeah, no, it's.

It's really.

We do have those moments of doubt though, don't we?

I think it's just part and parcel of what we do.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And sometimes I'll share them, you know, with client where it's appropriate and to model the.

Actually some of this stuff, I think I was doing a.

I did a trauma course last year and I was doing a technique and it was the first time I'd done it with the client and I hadn't shared.

It was the first time.

But then a couple of weeks later, we were talking about anxious thoughts and things and I said, so I'm curious how you experienced the thing two weeks ago.

Would you have known that I was bricking it?

Yeah.

And she went, what?

I was like.

Because I am not what I would consider experience in that area.

Obviously, you know, I'm safe to practice.

I'm but doing it with you.

And in my head I'm thinking, is she gonna think I'm.

I'm out there?

She.

What's she thinking of me?

But I haven't, as a trainer, said to me once, I haven't got a glass head.

No, Nobody knows that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think modeling that, actually, I get scared too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's okay to share that.

And it's not about hijacking the session.

It's not about talking about my stuff.

But just sometimes, just that little snippet of, do you know what?

It's okay.

It's appropriate, isn't it?

That's what you're saying.

Because with self disclosure in service of the client, it's not about you as long as.

Yeah.

Asking yourself.

Yeah.

Using yourself.

Yeah.

So one of the things that, you know, you talk about is that, you know, I've read your website, is that you really believe that people have the tools within themselves.

How does that approach help you when you're working with people?

It stops sometimes.

And with some clients in particular, I feel the need, that is probably quite familiar, of rescue.

But then recognising, oh, well, that's what I would do.

They're my tools.

And if I've got the belief that the client has got the tools and I just gently sit with that, it means that I'm not paddling like a swan desperately trying to find their tools for them.

Because I just hold this belief lightly that, okay, I can only be responsible to you.

I can't be responsible for you.

And one of the ways I describe how I work is I don't give advice per se, because a.

That's quite patronizing that I would pretend to experience things as you do, because I don't.

But hopefully what we do together is find a blooming great big flashlight for you to find what works for you.

And that could take a bit of experimenting.

The worst that happens is you come back and go, suzanne, that was utter rubbish.

That does not work for me.

Great, we know what doesn't work.

Yeah, that's brilliant.

And then we go again.

Yeah.

And being hopeful about it, using a little bit of humor, that it's all right, that I might make suggestions or we might talk about saying, oh, yeah, I used to do that.

Okay, well, let's look at that and see.

So I'm really interested in, you know, that.

That sense that you've got, you know, I'm not responsible for you, I'm responsible to you.

Because I think that can be a really.

For many of us who are rescuers, that can be a really difficult transition to make.

So do you think that's almost what you've always felt, or do you think that's something that you've developed over time?

And so what's helped you to be in that sort of, from a TA point of view, it's very much sort of adult to adult, isn't it there?

Isn't that that sense of being a rescuer and being sort of dominant and rescuing someone?

Do you think that's something that's always been there as part of your growth?

Go on, tell us more.

Absolutely not.

No, I think I would naturally have gone into that rescue and taking responsibility and overthinking it, particularly with my son, who has been one of my greatest teachers, actually.

Yeah.

In back off and.

And me having to sit on my hands because I want to rescue and I want to do, but I can't.

And that.

That sense of I'm responsible for what I put out there, I'm not responsible for what you do with it, because actually.

And actually, how disempowering that is when I do it for.

But it's definitely taken time and having to learn along the way when I'm doing that and recognizing that and then taking it to supervision and then taking it to finishing again, and then again, oh, I'm doing that thing again.

And I.

When I.

And I.

I'd love to say, yeah, it never happens.

Then I'm totally always.

I never.

Of course I do.

Yeah.

I fall back into it.

The difference, I guess, is I.

I don't tip a bucket load of shame on top of me for doing it.

Yeah.

Tell myself off for doing it.

I go, I've done that again.

Be curious about why I'm falling into that pit.

Yeah.

And do you find that it's sometimes with different clients, that it might be particular types of clients that bring out that rescuing in you?

Yeah.

And I think often.

And then I go back to the basics and think, where are they at?

And often it will be, I think, with some client groups, some don't want to say demographics, but particular client groups that come and it's like, okay, so this is going off.

Off for me, and this is what's happening.

I'm paying you for a service, now fix it.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

You can.

You can feel that pressure, can't you?

And it can be quite an anxious pressure of thinking, I've got.

I've got to fix it.

I've got to fix it.

Yeah.

Holy crap, Batman.

It's all on me.

Oh, wow.

And it's difficult in that moment, isn't it, to.

Because there's something around being grounded, isn't there, about grounding ourselves and knowing, no, I don't.

I don't have to step into this void here, despite the fact that they're holding out this lovely bucket of.

Here you are.

And actually, my way, rightly or wrongly, but it kind of works for me, is to.

I'll often use a gentle humor and I'll go Wait a minute.

Let me just get my magic wand out.

Yeah.

And I'll.

And I'll do all that, because this has been 50 years in the making and.

But also being curious around that, because often it's an indication of a wider.

Something that's going on, maybe in the client.

Something that's going on, like, how helpful would it be for me?

And often, you know, they're quite often told what to do by different people.

So do they really want me to be an extension of that?

Yeah.

It might feel familiar.

Yeah.

But do they want to change?

Yeah.

And that's what they're there for.

Yeah.

If we.

If we want change, we have to make change.

Yeah.

Making a Victoria sponge cake.

And your Victoria sponge cake is perfect.

Everybody loves it.

If you want chocolate cake because you're bored, you've got to add chocolate.

And that's a risk.

Yeah.

Because chocolate's temperamental and it might not turn out and nobody might like the chocolate cake.

So.

Yeah, it's risky, isn't it?

Yeah.

So going back to the social media, what gave you the confidence, do you think?

You said you were sort of a little bit scared at the start, but what helped you to build up that confidence to go onto social media?

I think time.

The more I did it and a little bit, you know, like, with anything that I feel anxious about, just building up that stamina and doing it, being uncomfortable and remembering my superpower that I forget sometimes that I have a superpower.

For 48 years, I've done things with anxious thoughts.

I've done things anxiously.

So I'm pretty good at doing things anxiously.

It doesn't mean.

And it's something I think, that Josh Fletcher touches on.

Just because it's uncomfortable and I don't like it doesn't mean I can't do it.

Yeah.

So.

So do it.

And I was really lucky.

I've got people around me who believe in me.

My family are great.

My son and my husband, they're my biggest cheerleader.

Yeah.

And.

And he's often.

My husband is often the one that just a bit more pragmatic about.

He's like, so what's the worst that's happened?

Like, just do it.

Yeah.

And I think the hardest.

Harder than the social media was pressing.

Go on.

Counseling directory.

Yeah, go on.

I faffed about for months because I kept thinking, what, me put myself out there.

How will I know if I'm doing it right?

Sure.

And it was another therapist who I met at the gym who said to me, stop, I won't say her exact words, but stop faffing about Bracelet.

Just press send.

And then you get your first inquiry and then you just go from there.

And I haven't looked back.

I mean, I didn't have an office at that time.

I rented somewhere.

Started very small, didn't put myself under pressure.

Tried not to listen to the noise of all the different things on social media because I think that can become a bit of a blocker for me, that if I concentrate too much on what other people are doing, I think real, excuse me, real life counsellors out there, like actual therapists are doing it.

You're an actual therapist.

But.

Yeah, it's difficult to believe it, isn't it?

I have to pitch myself because it sounds a cliche, but it's such an honor to do this.

I really love it.

I love working with the people and sometimes I think I never have Sunday scaries because I love it.

I love what I do.

Yeah, that's fantastic.

I don't know if that answered the question.

Yeah, no, it was brilliant.

Thank you.

And I think, you know, you're really not alone in being really scared to press that go on your, on your counseling directory profile.

Because, you know, obviously I help people with that.

Yeah.

Often we, you know, we revisit it and revisit it and revisit it and sometimes it's just, no, you've got to do it.

You just got to do it, you know, and unless you do it, unless you put it out there, you're never going to find out if it's going to work or not.

Yeah, you have to.

And it's been tweaked along the way.

I read loads of profiles, but then I realized, I think some people have like, specific niche and that's how they stand out.

And I was trying to work out what my niche, my USP is, but I think it's me.

Yeah, that's it.

That I offer something.

And it was my, my supervisor, who is relatively new to me, who said, you're quite unique in the way you work and you're quite in.

In your way of being and how you are.

And I hadn't realized that.

And I'm really glad she shared that because I think that's what clients see.

Yeah.

And I definitely won't be the right counselor for everybody.

Well, none of us are, are we?

So.

Yeah.

But I think letting the ego go, that, that's okay, actually.

And I can usually tell if.

Yeah.

Because we were talking about your 20 minute session.

So you can usually tell, can you, if it Just isn't going to work.

You can pick it up.

Yeah, absolutely.

Depending on the expectations, what.

What they're looking for, if it's not going to be.

And there's certain areas that I know that actually there's therapists that have got a lot more experience in that, and I think that might be.

Or if I'm.

If I'm working with a lot.

A lot of trauma, I only take on a certain number of clients because I know that I have to bracket extra time just to look after myself.

Yeah.

So you'll have only a certain number of trauma clients in your practice at any one time?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think it's the only healthy way to work because I need that space to reflect and have a dance.

Yeah.

And just bring yourself back to earth, really.

Yeah.

Is there anything else you wanted to share with people before we finish?

I think for me, the biggest lesson that I learned was not getting caught up in what other people are doing and trusting your soul and your instincts on what feels right for you.

And you're not a tree, you're a pot plant.

So if it doesn't work, you can pick yourself up and find a bit of sun.

That does work, and that's okay.

Jfdi, just flipping do it.

Yeah, always that.

That's brilliant.

Oh, Suzanne, thank you so much for coming along and sharing your journey with us, because, really lovely.

It's just lovely to meet you, lovely to chat and lovely to be together and hear about how you've developed your private practice alongside everything else that you've told us about today.

So thank you so much.

Really appreciate it.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Josephine, I've really enjoyed chatting because I see you online all the time and actually seeing you in person, as it were, it's been really lovely.

It is.

It's great, isn't it?

I love meeting people.

Yeah, it's really cool.

So someone said to me the other day, actually, about the podcast, I just love listening to the interviews with all the therapists.

And I thought, God, I'm so lucky because I meet so many therapists during the course of my work who are just really inspirational, and you're one of them, you know, and it's just so lovely to.

To have this work where I get to meet all these therapists.

It's fantastic.

So thank you for being here.

That's why I like the group, actually.

The Good Enough Counsellors group is really good for that, having that connection.

Yeah.

And nice to meet somebody else.

That's it.

That's it.

Definitely.

Brilliant.

Thank you.

Thanks for listening.

Do come and join my Facebook community.

Good enough.

Counsellors.

And for more information about how I can help you develop your private practice, please Visit my website, JosephineHughes.com if you found this episode helpful, I'd love it if you could share it with a fellow therapist or leave a review on your podcast app.

And in closing, I'd love to remind you that every single step you make gets you closer to your dream.

I really believe you can do it.