Mastering Influence From The Stage: Insights from Professional Mentalist Keith Kong

Summary

In this episode of Present Influence, host John Ball interviews professional mentalist Keith Kong about the psychology of influence and mentalism. Keith shares insights on how to engage audiences, the planning process for his shows, and the subtle techniques he uses to gauge and influence his audience. He also discusses the similarities between mentalism and speaking, emphasises the importance of preparation, and explores the role of hypnosis and NLP in his work. Listeners are treated to practical tips on tonality, body language, and audience interaction to elevate their communication and presentation skills.

Visit https://www.kongmentalist.com/ to learn more about Keith and his shows.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Influence and Hypnosis

00:24 Meet Keith Kong: The Professional Mentalist

01:46 The Art of Mentalism and Performance

03:27 Planning and Structuring a Show

08:34 Engaging the Audience

15:45 Psychology and Mentalism Insights

25:49 Understanding Everyday Hypnosis

26:25 The Reality of Hypnotherapy

27:04 Negative Responses to Hypnosis

29:53 Techniques and Applications of Hypnosis

32:19 The Importance of Tonality in Communication

34:24 Body Language and Stage Presence

38:59 Upcoming Projects and Events

41:44 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Go to presentinfluence.com to take the Speaker Strengths Quiz and discover your greatest strengths as a speaker as well as where to focus for growth. For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn

Thanks for listening, and please give the show a 5* review if you enjoyed it.

Mentioned in this episode:

Last Call For Founding KBPB Mebers

There's one last spot in the founding membership of The Known, Booked & Paid Blueprint. This is the only time you can get the program at 50% off. After that, it goes to the full program price, which is still great value, but it's not half-price value. Find out if it's the right fit for you at presentinfluence.com/kbpb

New PI mid-roll

How well do you understand influence?

2

00:00:02,599 --> 00:00:05,989

Do you know the triggers that nearly

all of us tend to react to and

3

00:00:05,989 --> 00:00:08,209

respond to in exactly the same way?

4

00:00:08,629 --> 00:00:13,219

Do you know how to keep a room

full of people energized when

5

00:00:13,219 --> 00:00:14,479

you're giving a presentation?

6

00:00:14,529 --> 00:00:18,369

Do you know how to use some of the

tools of hypnosis to work to your

7

00:00:18,369 --> 00:00:20,759

advantage ? Is hypnosis even a real thing?

8

00:00:20,999 --> 00:00:24,359

Well, we're gonna get into it

today with my guest, Keith Kong.

9

00:00:24,359 --> 00:00:28,679

Keith is a professional mentalist, and

if you don't know what a mentalist is,

10

00:00:28,679 --> 00:00:33,059

think somebody like Derren Brown, you

know, tricks of the mind playing with

11

00:00:33,059 --> 00:00:38,969

psychology and leveraging that in a way

to either be kind of mind reading people

12

00:00:38,969 --> 00:00:42,389

or influencing people to do things

or react to respond in certain ways.

13

00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,760

If you've ever seen professional magicians

and comedians, Penn and Teller, they have

14

00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:52,430

a TV show called Fool Me and Keith was a

winner of that show with his mentalism.

15

00:00:52,430 --> 00:00:52,610

So.

16

00:00:53,170 --> 00:00:54,520

You know that he's good.

17

00:00:55,350 --> 00:00:58,590

And he very kindly came and joined

me in the Present Influence studios

18

00:00:58,590 --> 00:01:02,550

to talk about some of the psychology

of influence and persuasion, how to

19

00:01:02,550 --> 00:01:06,870

use that in presentations and even

how to use some of the entertainment

20

00:01:06,870 --> 00:01:11,640

skills of being a professional stage

mentalist to help you be better on

21

00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,010

stage as a speaker and communicator.

22

00:01:15,450 --> 00:01:18,330

These are all things that you're not

gonna wanna miss in today's episode, so.

23

00:01:18,544 --> 00:01:22,714

It is packed full of lots of really

useful tools and tips from Keith.

24

00:01:23,435 --> 00:01:27,065

Welcome to Present Influence the

show for professional communicators

25

00:01:27,245 --> 00:01:31,115

who want to influence, impact,

and inspire with their talks.

26

00:01:31,505 --> 00:01:34,445

My name's John Ball and I'm your

guide on this journey to mastery

27

00:01:34,445 --> 00:01:36,065

level communication skills.

28

00:01:37,182 --> 00:01:41,382

Keith, thank you so much for coming

and joining me in the virtual studio.

29

00:01:41,382 --> 00:01:42,551

It is great to be with you today.

30

00:01:43,062 --> 00:01:44,112

Keith Kong: Yeah, it's great to be here.

31

00:01:44,112 --> 00:01:45,162

Thanks for having me, John.

32

00:01:46,662 --> 00:01:51,252

John: I wanted to kick things off

since you are a professional mentalist,

33

00:01:51,252 --> 00:01:55,452

by making sure that our listener

is gonna know what a mentalist

34

00:01:55,452 --> 00:01:58,932

is and what a mentalist does, so

that we can fully understand why.

35

00:01:58,932 --> 00:02:01,782

I was maybe so excited to have

you come on the show today.

36

00:02:02,397 --> 00:02:03,657

Keith Kong: Yeah, absolutely.

37

00:02:03,747 --> 00:02:06,447

A mentalist is like a

professional mind reader.

38

00:02:06,807 --> 00:02:10,707

If you think of a magician as someone that

does sleight of hand, think of a mentalist

39

00:02:10,707 --> 00:02:12,237

as someone that does sleight of mind.

40

00:02:12,267 --> 00:02:14,697

So for example, it's a branch of magic.

41

00:02:14,967 --> 00:02:19,617

But it's a specialty think general

practitioner compared to a neurosurgeon.

42

00:02:20,007 --> 00:02:22,857

And neurosurgeon is a good metaphor

here because it's all about

43

00:02:22,857 --> 00:02:23,966

the mind, all about the brain.

44

00:02:24,237 --> 00:02:27,687

You're never gonna see me make things

vanish or levitate or that sort of

45

00:02:27,687 --> 00:02:30,927

thing, but instead, I'm gonna be

making predictions and reading minds.

46

00:02:30,927 --> 00:02:34,707

And this all happens on a stage,

speaking from the platform, typically

47

00:02:34,707 --> 00:02:37,527

at corporate, high-end, private

events and that sort of thing.

48

00:02:37,527 --> 00:02:38,817

It's all entertainment.

49

00:02:38,867 --> 00:02:42,427

I don't claim to be a psychic or

anything like that, but it's a slightly

50

00:02:42,427 --> 00:02:44,257

more sophisticated form of magic.

51

00:02:45,202 --> 00:02:49,942

John: And so you are never really just

gonna get on stage and just mumble or

52

00:02:49,942 --> 00:02:51,862

murmur to your audience right there.

53

00:02:51,892 --> 00:02:54,892

There's gotta be a bit of a

wow factor with what you do.

54

00:02:54,892 --> 00:02:55,797

I should think I.

55

00:02:56,097 --> 00:02:57,097

Keith Kong: Yeah, absolutely.

56

00:02:57,102 --> 00:02:58,332

I think that I.

57

00:02:59,177 --> 00:03:04,667

At a, at an advantage here because,

and I think magicians in general are

58

00:03:04,907 --> 00:03:07,487

because we already start with a miracle.

59

00:03:07,517 --> 00:03:09,947

Like the thing that you have

to do is already supposed

60

00:03:09,947 --> 00:03:11,447

to be impossible and wowing.

61

00:03:11,897 --> 00:03:15,287

So now you have that headstart.

62

00:03:15,407 --> 00:03:18,197

But of course, it doesn't mean that you

can just go up there and do that thing.

63

00:03:18,197 --> 00:03:21,227

You still need to know how to speak

and rehearse and know what you're

64

00:03:21,227 --> 00:03:22,427

gonna say and how to present.

65

00:03:22,757 --> 00:03:25,037

But absolutely, to answer

your question, yeah, the wow

66

00:03:25,037 --> 00:03:26,627

factor always has to be there.

67

00:03:27,841 --> 00:03:33,872

John: And so ju just 'cause I'm genuinely

curious when you are planning a show,

68

00:03:34,112 --> 00:03:37,557

when you're putting your act together,

and I imagine maybe you have more than

69

00:03:37,557 --> 00:03:39,807

one act that you performed over time.

70

00:03:40,347 --> 00:03:41,966

Is that something that.

71

00:03:42,457 --> 00:03:45,127

Very carefully plan the

position like we had.

72

00:03:45,127 --> 00:03:49,567

We have to start with this big opening,

close with this specific opening.

73

00:03:49,567 --> 00:03:52,087

Make sure we keep hit

some beats along the way.

74

00:03:52,087 --> 00:03:52,897

All that kind of thing.

75

00:03:52,897 --> 00:03:56,757

It's just give us a little insight

into your planning process for a show.

76

00:03:58,097 --> 00:04:00,977

Keith Kong: So for me the answer is yes.

77

00:04:00,977 --> 00:04:04,127

I know performers that say,

oh, I just go up there and

78

00:04:04,562 --> 00:04:04,852

John: Okay.

79

00:04:05,057 --> 00:04:07,487

Keith Kong: up to the venue and be like,

I don't even know what I'm gonna do yet.

80

00:04:07,487 --> 00:04:08,567

I'm just gonna feel it out.

81

00:04:08,957 --> 00:04:11,117

And I, that, to me, that terrifies me.

82

00:04:11,492 --> 00:04:13,142

I want to have a plan going in.

83

00:04:13,142 --> 00:04:16,981

I feel like it better prepares me, and

at the very least, I want bookends.

84

00:04:16,981 --> 00:04:20,372

I want to know that I'm gonna start

strong and I'm gonna end strong.

85

00:04:20,372 --> 00:04:23,582

Because shows that start

well tend to end well.

86

00:04:23,582 --> 00:04:26,132

So it's really important that I

hit the opening mark, deliver those

87

00:04:26,132 --> 00:04:30,752

lines, and then, yeah, we, or me

in particular, and a lot of us put

88

00:04:30,842 --> 00:04:32,732

thought into the structure of the show.

89

00:04:33,962 --> 00:04:35,102

do we add texture?

90

00:04:35,102 --> 00:04:37,472

How do we make it so that it's different?

91

00:04:37,472 --> 00:04:39,122

For example, when you see a comedian.

92

00:04:40,052 --> 00:04:42,962

go, and the jokes all interweave.

93

00:04:42,962 --> 00:04:46,412

And at the end of the night, if you try to

tell someone about the show and you try to

94

00:04:46,412 --> 00:04:50,702

tell them a joke, it's difficult sometimes

because the jokes have callbacks and

95

00:04:50,702 --> 00:04:52,112

they come in and go throughout the show.

96

00:04:52,352 --> 00:04:55,922

Whereas sometimes you go and see a

magic show or a mentalist and it's

97

00:04:55,922 --> 00:04:58,502

there's a trick, there's another

trick, there's another trick.

98

00:04:58,982 --> 00:05:03,842

And so I put a lot of thought into how I

weave it, how I make it a cohesive show,

99

00:05:03,842 --> 00:05:06,572

and not just magic for the sake of magic.

100

00:05:07,317 --> 00:05:09,927

John: I guess in my head I'm

picturing like someone like Darren

101

00:05:09,927 --> 00:05:12,587

Brown, who I imagine know is

probably the only mentalist I've

102

00:05:12,587 --> 00:05:14,357

actually been to see in a theater.

103

00:05:14,637 --> 00:05:18,987

But those shows are undoubtedly

very well planned and probably

104

00:05:18,987 --> 00:05:20,307

months in preparation.

105

00:05:20,307 --> 00:05:23,707

So just in my head, that's when it makes

sense to me, but it's a lot like speakers.

106

00:05:23,712 --> 00:05:27,682

Speak a lot of speakers really want to

be very well prepared, have everything

107

00:05:27,682 --> 00:05:30,802

planned out, know what they, how they're

gonna open, how they're gonna close,

108

00:05:31,072 --> 00:05:35,422

have everything so that you can have

things that call back to other things

109

00:05:35,422 --> 00:05:40,642

or things that use the right metaphors

within that, the kinds of elements that

110

00:05:40,642 --> 00:05:45,432

are just very hard to do on the fly

to improvise them into that, that do

111

00:05:45,432 --> 00:05:47,502

require a bit of finessing and planning.

112

00:05:47,502 --> 00:05:52,782

So I like that particularly

that you do that and, yeah.

113

00:05:52,812 --> 00:05:54,642

Keith Kong: don't think they

should be mutually exclusive.

114

00:05:54,882 --> 00:05:58,482

I think that by being prepared

and having those talk tracks and

115

00:05:58,482 --> 00:06:01,812

knowing where I'm going, it also

allows me to live in the moment.

116

00:06:02,202 --> 00:06:05,502

And if something organically happens

in the room, then I can comment on it.

117

00:06:05,502 --> 00:06:10,692

I can break away from that script or

talk track, address it, and be in the

118

00:06:10,692 --> 00:06:14,472

moment, and then I can get right back

on track and know where I left off

119

00:06:14,472 --> 00:06:16,272

and get everything back on the rails.

120

00:06:16,572 --> 00:06:20,112

So I think that it is important to

live in the moment and have those

121

00:06:20,112 --> 00:06:23,982

moments with your audience, but

being prepared also helps with that.

122

00:06:24,952 --> 00:06:28,942

John: Yeah, that makes total sense

to me because if you are improvising

123

00:06:28,942 --> 00:06:32,212

the whole thing and like maybe you

know you stuff really well, ah, I

124

00:06:32,212 --> 00:06:33,142

just get up there and do whatever.

125

00:06:33,142 --> 00:06:36,382

I feel like in the moment you

do have to be giving mental

126

00:06:36,382 --> 00:06:38,002

energy to what's coming next.

127

00:06:38,002 --> 00:06:39,442

What am I gonna go into next?

128

00:06:39,442 --> 00:06:40,672

How am I gonna lead into that?

129

00:06:40,942 --> 00:06:45,722

Whereas prepared show allows you as the

flexibility, again very similar I think

130

00:06:45,722 --> 00:06:51,042

to, to speaking and to some degree into

into comedy as well, because even great.

131

00:06:51,357 --> 00:06:57,177

Comedy improvisers have done so

many reps of improvisation that they

132

00:06:57,177 --> 00:06:58,857

pretty much just know where to go

133

00:06:58,857 --> 00:07:03,537

with improv, though, they have put

in hours or months or even years of

134

00:07:03,537 --> 00:07:05,817

preparation to be able to go and do that.

135

00:07:05,817 --> 00:07:09,002

Even if you don't know exactly where

the improv is necessarily gonna go.

136

00:07:09,862 --> 00:07:10,152

Keith Kong: Yeah.

137

00:07:11,097 --> 00:07:16,167

Then the other thing is sometimes you see

guys that are so rigid in structure that

138

00:07:16,167 --> 00:07:19,917

it just comes across as insincere because

they're not living in the moment at all.

139

00:07:20,067 --> 00:07:23,797

They're just saying jokes and

they're speeding past them, as

140

00:07:23,797 --> 00:07:24,997

if they're not in the moment.

141

00:07:24,997 --> 00:07:27,607

So it's a really fine line.

142

00:07:27,607 --> 00:07:29,557

It's, I think it's an important balance.

143

00:07:30,007 --> 00:07:33,027

John: Yeah you got into

magic pretty early.

144

00:07:33,027 --> 00:07:36,997

When you were a kid, did you

have those natural performance

145

00:07:36,997 --> 00:07:40,237

elements then, or is that something

that you've developed over time?

146

00:07:41,692 --> 00:07:45,322

Keith Kong: I think I had a little

bit of a knack for it, but it was

147

00:07:45,352 --> 00:07:48,802

definitely something that developed

over time when I started working

148

00:07:48,802 --> 00:07:52,492

with consultants and because I was

the guy that would get up there with

149

00:07:52,492 --> 00:07:53,962

that natural talent and wing it.

150

00:07:54,262 --> 00:07:55,612

It went great.

151

00:07:55,852 --> 00:07:59,812

People liked it and stuff like that,

but I'm really glad that I didn't

152

00:07:59,812 --> 00:08:05,212

stay in that space and I started

putting more thoughts into everything.

153

00:08:05,212 --> 00:08:08,842

Like why we do everything that we

do in the show, if it's not adding

154

00:08:08,842 --> 00:08:10,372

to the show, it's taking away.

155

00:08:10,552 --> 00:08:14,392

So I want to say everything

that needs to be said in as few

156

00:08:14,392 --> 00:08:16,282

words as necessary to say them.

157

00:08:16,642 --> 00:08:20,962

And also while evoking emotion

and getting people to remember

158

00:08:20,962 --> 00:08:22,522

it and digest it in an easy.

159

00:08:22,807 --> 00:08:23,707

In an easy way to do

160

00:08:23,757 --> 00:08:24,147

John: yeah.

161

00:08:25,137 --> 00:08:29,247

What I mean, I know what you do

is not the same as what I do as

162

00:08:29,247 --> 00:08:32,827

a speaker and I'm sure you would

have no trouble transitioning to

163

00:08:32,827 --> 00:08:34,147

doing something like that though.

164

00:08:34,506 --> 00:08:39,587

But what kind of ideas or as a

concept do you have in mind for

165

00:08:39,587 --> 00:08:43,217

how to keep an audience engaged

throughout the whole of a show?

166

00:08:44,552 --> 00:08:46,232

Keith Kong: A few things

come to mind instantly.

167

00:08:47,222 --> 00:08:48,122

Visuals.

168

00:08:48,497 --> 00:08:51,647

Stories and things like

that get them thinking.

169

00:08:52,427 --> 00:08:56,717

I would say things that are also

involving the audience hands-on.

170

00:08:56,717 --> 00:08:59,177

So you asked about the

structure to my show.

171

00:08:59,177 --> 00:09:04,307

I like as early as possible in

the show, get everybody involved.

172

00:09:04,307 --> 00:09:07,547

We call it a macro effect, but if I

can get everyone in the audience to

173

00:09:07,547 --> 00:09:12,587

stand up or participate in some kind

of way, now you're in the show and that

174

00:09:12,587 --> 00:09:17,227

just, it makes it, harder to drift

off and get lost in a conversation if

175

00:09:17,227 --> 00:09:19,837

you're actually the center of the show.

176

00:09:19,837 --> 00:09:24,967

And now, if from an early point in the

show you are affected and you experienced

177

00:09:24,967 --> 00:09:30,007

something pretty impossible, pretty crazy,

now you're more likely to be invested

178

00:09:30,067 --> 00:09:31,687

and along for the rest of the ride.

179

00:09:33,247 --> 00:09:33,727

John: Gotcha.

180

00:09:34,157 --> 00:09:38,497

And so I think as there's something

to learn from that in terms of having

181

00:09:38,797 --> 00:09:42,967

a level of audience interaction

and interactivity in what you do.

182

00:09:42,967 --> 00:09:47,167

I hear a lot of people now in the speaking

world talk about they want more audience

183

00:09:47,167 --> 00:09:52,032

interaction, and some people interpret

that to be more like having a workshop

184

00:09:52,197 --> 00:09:56,507

activity in a keynote speech, which I

generally think is a bad idea, but enough

185

00:09:56,507 --> 00:10:01,197

interaction that they're doing something

as you said, sta get them to stand up, get

186

00:10:01,302 --> 00:10:02,667

'em to be involved and be a part of it.

187

00:10:02,667 --> 00:10:06,107

Raise, raise their hands, shout

something out, what's something

188

00:10:06,107 --> 00:10:09,377

that actually has them involved

in what's going on so that they're

189

00:10:09,377 --> 00:10:11,387

not just passive observers anymore.

190

00:10:11,437 --> 00:10:13,817

And I think that's a

really key part in this.

191

00:10:15,347 --> 00:10:16,757

Keith Kong: And it doesn't

have to be something long.

192

00:10:16,787 --> 00:10:20,957

I do like workshops a lot because I

feel like we can get everyone involved

193

00:10:20,957 --> 00:10:24,617

easily and we can make things happen

that are really transformative.

194

00:10:24,617 --> 00:10:28,697

But if you can do something transformative

from the platform, even better

195

00:10:28,697 --> 00:10:30,227

because it's got that same effect.

196

00:10:30,227 --> 00:10:34,517

If I can take you through a transformation

opposed to just showing you from a

197

00:10:34,517 --> 00:10:39,347

textbook or this study said that, but

if you can actually experience it and.

198

00:10:40,487 --> 00:10:44,147

Say, for example, do something that you

thought was impossible a few moments

199

00:10:44,147 --> 00:10:50,867

ago, and now in you're able to do that

thing, which is, it is a real example.

200

00:10:50,867 --> 00:10:53,207

It's a thing that I have done

in different presentations.

201

00:10:53,267 --> 00:10:54,527

It's so powerful.

202

00:10:54,917 --> 00:10:57,947

Everybody in the room talks about

it, and now they leave with this

203

00:10:57,947 --> 00:11:01,487

transformative skill that they

can put into practice immediately.

204

00:11:03,747 --> 00:11:07,232

John: How, roughly how long

would a show of like yours be

205

00:11:07,292 --> 00:11:08,342

when someone comes to see you?

206

00:11:09,407 --> 00:11:12,947

Keith Kong: It varies when you say,

when someone comes to see me, it's

207

00:11:12,947 --> 00:11:16,187

difficult because I primarily perform at

corporate events where they bring me in,

208

00:11:17,107 --> 00:11:17,387

John: Okay.

209

00:11:17,687 --> 00:11:22,417

Keith Kong: ranges from anywhere from 15

minutes as a human caffeine sort of event

210

00:11:22,417 --> 00:11:28,087

energizer in the morning all the way to a

60 minute after dinner entertainment show.

211

00:11:28,807 --> 00:11:33,667

But I think the sweet spot, most clients

bring me in for about 45 minutes.

212

00:11:34,762 --> 00:11:35,302

John: Okay, great.

213

00:11:35,302 --> 00:11:38,992

So again, lots of similarities

to this, to the professional

214

00:11:38,992 --> 00:11:40,462

speaking world with that as well.

215

00:11:41,227 --> 00:11:46,082

What for you are some of the key

elements or key ways that you then keep

216

00:11:46,082 --> 00:11:52,392

people engaged throughout a 45 minute

to 60 minute presentation or event?

217

00:11:53,437 --> 00:11:53,927

Keith Kong: With me.

218

00:11:54,702 --> 00:11:59,222

One thing that's really great is because

it's a mind reading show, people's

219

00:11:59,342 --> 00:12:01,872

favorite topic tends to be themselves.

220

00:12:02,652 --> 00:12:05,322

themselves and their own thoughts

and what it means and their

221

00:12:05,322 --> 00:12:06,462

feelings and things like that.

222

00:12:06,462 --> 00:12:11,112

So if I'm reading your mind, you

are now the star of the show.

223

00:12:11,322 --> 00:12:14,382

And not only that, if I'm telling

you that I can tell you what the

224

00:12:14,382 --> 00:12:18,402

person sat next to you is thinking

now you're curious about that too.

225

00:12:18,642 --> 00:12:21,762

So that's what's great for me is.

226

00:12:22,647 --> 00:12:26,247

show is different every time because

the audience and their thoughts

227

00:12:26,247 --> 00:12:29,577

is what determines the outcomes

of things throughout the night.

228

00:12:29,907 --> 00:12:32,967

So I have that to my advantage

because people are already

229

00:12:32,967 --> 00:12:37,137

intrinsically interested and motivated

to, to follow along with that.

230

00:12:38,037 --> 00:12:43,647

I would say also things like texture,

making sure I, ooh, it's, I saw

231

00:12:43,647 --> 00:12:45,177

a mentalist the other day, and.

232

00:12:46,225 --> 00:12:48,582

Man, I just looked at my

girlfriend who sat next to me

233

00:12:48,582 --> 00:12:49,962

and it made me want to cringe.

234

00:12:49,992 --> 00:12:52,002

I was like, I hate every part of this.

235

00:12:52,242 --> 00:12:56,022

It was just so boring and drawn

out, and it's unfortunate, but like

236

00:12:56,052 --> 00:12:59,382

you've, you hear this sometimes in the

mentalism community or in the magic

237

00:12:59,382 --> 00:13:03,192

community where they say, mentalism

is so boring, and that's not the case.

238

00:13:03,312 --> 00:13:05,202

Bad mentalism is boring, drawn

239

00:13:05,222 --> 00:13:05,572

John: Right.

240

00:13:05,832 --> 00:13:06,162

Keith Kong: is boring.

241

00:13:06,282 --> 00:13:11,112

And so I work really hard to keep things

moving, keep the pace, add texture.

242

00:13:11,572 --> 00:13:12,982

Look at the set lists.

243

00:13:12,982 --> 00:13:15,622

For me, it's like this is

a mind reading routine.

244

00:13:15,622 --> 00:13:18,622

This is a prediction routine,

but I'm not gonna have a

245

00:13:18,622 --> 00:13:19,942

prediction, another prediction.

246

00:13:19,942 --> 00:13:21,292

It's too much heavy spice.

247

00:13:21,292 --> 00:13:25,672

We need to break it up and

create more of a flow to it.

248

00:13:25,672 --> 00:13:28,732

And then of course, no

magic for the sake of magic.

249

00:13:28,732 --> 00:13:30,022

Is there a meaning behind this?

250

00:13:30,022 --> 00:13:31,762

What's the underlying message here?

251

00:13:31,972 --> 00:13:32,722

Why?

252

00:13:33,597 --> 00:13:35,007

Why are we watching this?

253

00:13:35,187 --> 00:13:38,427

Yes, it's for entertainment, but

if I could give them something else

254

00:13:38,427 --> 00:13:42,507

to chew on and think about and take

home with them, then it's even better

255

00:13:42,507 --> 00:13:44,397

because now it hits on multiple levels.

256

00:13:45,162 --> 00:13:50,862

John: I can remember when I very first

trained as a coach certain people

257

00:13:50,862 --> 00:13:55,422

around me got very wary that I was

gonna be analyzing them to coach.

258

00:13:55,502 --> 00:13:57,962

It's not the same as psychotherapy,

but people thought I was

259

00:13:57,962 --> 00:13:58,952

gonna be analyzing them.

260

00:13:59,282 --> 00:14:03,032

Do you find that people are a

little wary of you as a mentalist?

261

00:14:03,032 --> 00:14:05,522

Like they try to be careful

what they say or do around you.

262

00:14:05,942 --> 00:14:07,202

Keith Kong: Oh, a thousand percent.

263

00:14:07,202 --> 00:14:11,552

I've walked into venues and people

that have booked me or been on the

264

00:14:11,552 --> 00:14:15,362

board that knows I'm coming and stuff

like that, they'll be, oh my God.

265

00:14:15,362 --> 00:14:16,622

Don't, are you reading me now?

266

00:14:16,717 --> 00:14:17,557

Don't look at me.

267

00:14:18,347 --> 00:14:19,627

I think it's great.

268

00:14:19,627 --> 00:14:25,582

I remember, it's interesting because

I've had a lot of mentors and psychology

269

00:14:25,582 --> 00:14:27,292

professors and things like that.

270

00:14:28,522 --> 00:14:31,582

And there were times early on

where I looked at some of these

271

00:14:31,582 --> 00:14:32,812

guys and I was like, oh man.

272

00:14:32,812 --> 00:14:34,402

Like he knows what I'm thinking right now.

273

00:14:34,582 --> 00:14:37,342

And so it's really cool to

have been on both ends of that.

274

00:14:38,452 --> 00:14:38,872

John: Yeah.

275

00:14:39,247 --> 00:14:42,947

And so do you find it is something

you can switch off or do you

276

00:14:42,947 --> 00:14:46,922

sometimes find yourself reading

when you don't really intend to be?

277

00:14:48,707 --> 00:14:51,702

Keith Kong: I do switch it

off if I'm not thinking about

278

00:14:52,002 --> 00:14:52,122

John: I.

279

00:14:52,742 --> 00:14:56,762

Keith Kong: sometimes you'll catch

something and then you'll just know

280

00:14:56,762 --> 00:14:59,552

oh, this is what's happening right

now and now you're paying attention

281

00:14:59,552 --> 00:15:01,502

to it and you're back into it.

282

00:15:01,922 --> 00:15:04,052

So it's interesting.

283

00:15:04,422 --> 00:15:09,672

I think I do turn it off because I

don't want to constantly be analyzing.

284

00:15:09,672 --> 00:15:11,172

I think that would be exhausting.

285

00:15:11,607 --> 00:15:15,417

But it's great that you can flip

the switch, turn it back on, and

286

00:15:15,417 --> 00:15:16,917

get a grasp on what's happening.

287

00:15:17,127 --> 00:15:22,437

And the other thing I would say to

that is also sometimes people get into

288

00:15:22,437 --> 00:15:26,637

psychology and they learn a little bit of

it, and then they trick themselves into

289

00:15:26,637 --> 00:15:30,627

believing that they're an expert or that

they have a solid grasp on a situation.

290

00:15:31,137 --> 00:15:31,587

John: Right.

291

00:15:31,617 --> 00:15:34,587

Keith Kong: it's important to read

all of these things, body language,

292

00:15:34,827 --> 00:15:36,567

subtle cues and things like that.

293

00:15:36,687 --> 00:15:38,577

All should be read in clusters.

294

00:15:38,922 --> 00:15:42,102

You are looking for a bunch of

things that are congruent that would

295

00:15:42,102 --> 00:15:43,452

lead you to the same conclusion.

296

00:15:44,337 --> 00:15:44,757

John: Yeah.

297

00:15:45,852 --> 00:15:49,602

I'm very fascinated by the

psychology aspects of what you do.

298

00:15:49,602 --> 00:15:52,002

And the whole area of

mentalism interests me.

299

00:15:52,362 --> 00:15:55,452

Probably not enough to go and start

learning it at this stage in my life,

300

00:15:55,452 --> 00:15:57,862

but I do find it very fascinating.

301

00:15:58,132 --> 00:16:01,852

And I know that you have some

background in, in psychology.

302

00:16:02,272 --> 00:16:07,102

What are some of the maybe most

surprising things that you've

303

00:16:07,102 --> 00:16:11,932

learned or realized from what you

do in relation to how people work?

304

00:16:11,932 --> 00:16:12,472

I guess.

305

00:16:14,707 --> 00:16:15,877

Keith Kong: That's a great question.

306

00:16:15,957 --> 00:16:18,537

There's not a whole lot

that surprises me anymore.

307

00:16:18,537 --> 00:16:24,567

I always like to say people are people and

like people are people, they're fallible.

308

00:16:24,567 --> 00:16:29,037

They fall for the same kinds of

influence and persuasion and certain

309

00:16:29,037 --> 00:16:32,937

things, reciprocity norms, like we're

all susceptible to these things.

310

00:16:32,937 --> 00:16:34,287

Even if you know about it.

311

00:16:34,417 --> 00:16:38,647

There's been, I remember being surprised

by, and this is a wild example, but

312

00:16:38,857 --> 00:16:45,322

schizophrenics, people with schizophrenia

and they're having delusions and all of

313

00:16:45,322 --> 00:16:46,972

these hallucinations, things like that.

314

00:16:48,472 --> 00:16:52,972

Despite that, really surprised me when I

was first learning about all of this years

315

00:16:52,972 --> 00:16:57,292

ago to find that people with schizophrenia

are aware that they have schizophrenia.

316

00:16:58,157 --> 00:16:58,507

John: Right.

317

00:16:59,182 --> 00:17:03,472

Keith Kong: that this is a thing that

they're experiencing false beliefs

318

00:17:03,472 --> 00:17:08,031

and hallucinations and stuff like

that, but then they still sometimes

319

00:17:08,031 --> 00:17:09,832

can't differentiate between the two.

320

00:17:10,531 --> 00:17:13,021

So like that was an

interesting thing to me that.

321

00:17:13,787 --> 00:17:16,997

was one guy that we talked about,

he was actually a therapist

322

00:17:17,267 --> 00:17:18,676

and he developed schizophrenia.

323

00:17:18,676 --> 00:17:22,517

So he was very aware of what he was

dealing with, but it still was able

324

00:17:22,727 --> 00:17:28,156

to control when he is not medicating

himself, which is a whole nother thing

325

00:17:28,237 --> 00:17:29,687

when it comes to schizophrenics and the

326

00:17:29,777 --> 00:17:30,437

That they take.

327

00:17:30,467 --> 00:17:32,927

And we could go on and on about that.

328

00:17:32,927 --> 00:17:34,987

But yeah, surprising surprising things.

329

00:17:35,347 --> 00:17:37,017

There's not too much anymore.

330

00:17:37,632 --> 00:17:42,002

It's just, I think that people are people

and we all can do good things, bad things.

331

00:17:42,962 --> 00:17:43,172

Yeah

332

00:17:43,872 --> 00:17:47,912

John: do you feel like you have any

insights into how people work that

333

00:17:47,912 --> 00:17:49,712

perhaps other people don't have?

334

00:17:49,772 --> 00:17:50,282

Generally.

335

00:17:52,287 --> 00:17:53,102

Keith Kong: I think so.

336

00:17:53,372 --> 00:17:57,632

I think just being aware of, I

think just being aware of the

337

00:17:57,632 --> 00:18:01,922

different things that are out

there when it comes to things like.

338

00:18:03,392 --> 00:18:08,792

Reciprocity norms or body language, like

these are things that are happening.

339

00:18:08,792 --> 00:18:13,322

Body language happens without you thinking

about it, you know that it's happening

340

00:18:13,352 --> 00:18:17,582

and you can pay attention now, you

definitely have more insight into what's

341

00:18:17,582 --> 00:18:22,232

going on than the average person that

doesn't know anything about it and is

342

00:18:22,232 --> 00:18:24,182

watching the same conversation happen.

343

00:18:25,562 --> 00:18:25,862

John: Yeah.

344

00:18:26,432 --> 00:18:29,522

And for what you do, you'll have.

345

00:18:30,197 --> 00:18:33,107

Elements where you're gonna be doing

influence, like one-on-one with people,

346

00:18:33,107 --> 00:18:36,617

I would imagine, and also elements where

you may be doing it with the whole room.

347

00:18:37,347 --> 00:18:40,667

What are some of the things you could tell

us about how the influence and persuasion

348

00:18:40,667 --> 00:18:43,187

skills work in those sorts of areas?

349

00:18:43,187 --> 00:18:48,507

What are some of, they may be insights

or even hacks or ways to understand

350

00:18:48,507 --> 00:18:52,747

this of influencing one-to-one

and influencing on a group level?

351

00:18:53,707 --> 00:18:54,037

Keith Kong: Yeah.

352

00:18:54,067 --> 00:18:54,367

Okay.

353

00:18:54,367 --> 00:18:59,137

So one-on-one is gonna be probably a

lot of the stuff that your listeners

354

00:18:59,137 --> 00:19:02,707

have heard, things like bonding

and rapport matching and mirroring.

355

00:19:03,377 --> 00:19:05,477

Those are all great for one-on-one.

356

00:19:05,807 --> 00:19:07,367

Color psychology is interesting.

357

00:19:07,367 --> 00:19:09,047

Blue is a persuasive color.

358

00:19:09,047 --> 00:19:10,619

Red is usually a power color.

359

00:19:11,147 --> 00:19:13,619

So those things factor in, and I

think that these are all multipliers.

360

00:19:13,967 --> 00:19:16,337

When you know these things and

you stack them, it's just like

361

00:19:16,337 --> 00:19:18,557

bonus points from the platform.

362

00:19:18,902 --> 00:19:23,882

Oftentimes people get loud and

chatty and it's hard to grasp their

363

00:19:23,882 --> 00:19:26,462

attention, especially right at the

start, people in the back of the room.

364

00:19:26,672 --> 00:19:28,952

For me, this is why I like to

come in with something that

365

00:19:28,952 --> 00:19:30,452

involves everybody if I can.

366

00:19:31,132 --> 00:19:31,422

John: Yeah.

367

00:19:31,802 --> 00:19:33,722

Keith Kong: want to build the credibility.

368

00:19:33,722 --> 00:19:38,942

When I come out, there's a sizzle reel

that plays, and it shows the shows

369

00:19:38,942 --> 00:19:42,802

that I've been on and the credits and

accolades that I've received, and now

370

00:19:42,802 --> 00:19:45,782

people tend to say to themselves, oh.

371

00:19:46,547 --> 00:19:49,787

No matter what this guy does, it's

gonna be good because it's already been

372

00:19:49,787 --> 00:19:54,587

determined that he's good based on other

professionals and people like that.

373

00:19:55,517 --> 00:20:01,187

when they get chatty, oftentimes it's our

instinct to get louder and try like guys,

374

00:20:01,187 --> 00:20:04,997

try to command their attention, but it's

actually better to talk a little softer.

375

00:20:05,927 --> 00:20:08,147

And now they're like,

whoa, what's happening?

376

00:20:08,147 --> 00:20:09,677

And now they want to pay attention.

377

00:20:09,677 --> 00:20:13,992

So a ton of techniques

come to mind when it comes

378

00:20:14,292 --> 00:20:17,777

John: Is that something that also, like

if you speak a bit softer, other people,

379

00:20:17,777 --> 00:20:20,327

there's start going, trying to hear them.

380

00:20:20,922 --> 00:20:22,292

Keith Kong: Yeah, absolutely.

381

00:20:22,292 --> 00:20:28,832

It's just, it's great because you notice

the Dr, the change in sound, like we,

382

00:20:30,062 --> 00:20:33,432

really loud and how many times have you

been talking to someone and then the room

383

00:20:33,432 --> 00:20:34,982

gets quiet and it's oh, what's happening?

384

00:20:36,677 --> 00:20:37,667

John: Yeah, no, absolutely.

385

00:20:38,627 --> 00:20:38,867

I get that.

386

00:20:38,877 --> 00:20:43,837

With one-to-one influence and persuasion,

you say matching and mirroring some things

387

00:20:43,837 --> 00:20:44,862

like, but what are some of the maybe.

388

00:20:46,657 --> 00:20:52,287

Lesser known things that you

might use in in working on

389

00:20:52,287 --> 00:20:54,927

stage with somebody or, yeah.

390

00:20:55,772 --> 00:20:56,462

In your routine,

391

00:20:56,512 --> 00:20:58,672

Keith Kong: there's so

many subtle techniques for.

392

00:20:59,932 --> 00:21:03,262

Something as simple as if I want to

determine whether or not someone's

393

00:21:03,262 --> 00:21:09,592

right or left-handed, because I don't

put a whole lot of stock in NLP.

394

00:21:09,652 --> 00:21:14,212

But there are some parts that

do work that I do agree with.

395

00:21:15,802 --> 00:21:19,222

one thing that's interesting is eye

movements, for example, up until

396

00:21:19,222 --> 00:21:21,082

the left is typically fabrication.

397

00:21:21,082 --> 00:21:24,532

Like we might say person's lying

they're creating a story, whereas

398

00:21:24,532 --> 00:21:26,607

up until the right would be recall.

399

00:21:27,472 --> 00:21:31,042

One thing that's interesting is that

it's the opposite for left-handed people.

400

00:21:31,672 --> 00:21:34,522

So how do you know if

someone's right or left-handed?

401

00:21:34,852 --> 00:21:38,392

Sometimes I might just ask in a

presentation, but if I wanna know

402

00:21:38,392 --> 00:21:43,402

subtly, I might hand them the mic watch

for the hand that they grab it with.

403

00:21:44,122 --> 00:21:47,542

now I know like little subtle

things like that are great.

404

00:21:47,572 --> 00:21:53,422

I think if we talk about body

language, your nose and feet tend

405

00:21:53,422 --> 00:21:55,072

to point towards areas of desire.

406

00:21:55,732 --> 00:21:57,082

We could talk about shoes.

407

00:21:57,112 --> 00:22:00,772

Just looking at someone's shoes often

tells you a lot about the kind of person

408

00:22:00,772 --> 00:22:04,252

that they are, their communication

style and that sort of thing.

409

00:22:04,847 --> 00:22:08,867

John: Like if they're all scuffed

up and scruffy, or if they polished

410

00:22:08,867 --> 00:22:10,127

and pristine, that kind of thing.

411

00:22:10,127 --> 00:22:11,117

What is it you look for there?

412

00:22:12,002 --> 00:22:12,242

Keith Kong: Yeah.

413

00:22:12,242 --> 00:22:15,542

If they're polished and pristine,

look at someone's office.

414

00:22:15,542 --> 00:22:19,382

Even if you go into someone's office

and there's a place for everything,

415

00:22:19,682 --> 00:22:24,872

chances are this person is very

analytical, They want the statistics.

416

00:22:24,872 --> 00:22:27,482

They want facts, like

everything's neat and organized.

417

00:22:27,902 --> 00:22:30,212

Whereas you go into someone's

office and they've just got

418

00:22:30,212 --> 00:22:32,342

awards and accolades on the walls.

419

00:22:32,687 --> 00:22:38,297

Now you know that this person is,

like a sort of dominant personality.

420

00:22:38,297 --> 00:22:40,547

If you're in a buyer situation,

these are the people that

421

00:22:40,547 --> 00:22:42,557

tend to like to buy in bulk.

422

00:22:42,737 --> 00:22:43,097

They wanna

423

00:22:43,212 --> 00:22:43,502

John: Yeah.

424

00:22:43,802 --> 00:22:44,057

Keith Kong: done.

425

00:22:44,147 --> 00:22:45,617

Done is better than done, right?

426

00:22:45,677 --> 00:22:46,637

We can just get it done.

427

00:22:46,637 --> 00:22:48,257

We can fix it later if we need to.

428

00:22:49,097 --> 00:22:52,457

If you go into someone's office and

they've got pictures of their family

429

00:22:52,457 --> 00:22:56,257

all over the walls, then you know

that this is like a steady relator,

430

00:22:56,257 --> 00:22:57,967

the glue that holds society together.

431

00:22:57,967 --> 00:22:58,957

This is the person.

432

00:22:59,227 --> 00:23:02,317

That wants everybody to be happy,

everything to be safe and fair.

433

00:23:02,317 --> 00:23:08,137

So I might use words like, if that

sounds fair, then we can, or if we all

434

00:23:08,137 --> 00:23:12,667

agree, then would the next step, would it

make sense to do this as the next step?

435

00:23:13,147 --> 00:23:15,607

And so the language might change

now going back to that person

436

00:23:15,607 --> 00:23:16,657

with the awards on the wall.

437

00:23:17,032 --> 00:23:20,782

In that same conversation, I might say

something like, and then if that sounds

438

00:23:20,782 --> 00:23:25,972

good to you, or I might say something

like, you guys know your industry.

439

00:23:25,972 --> 00:23:27,682

You probably do it

better than anyone else.

440

00:23:27,682 --> 00:23:30,172

And that's all music

to that person's ears.

441

00:23:30,532 --> 00:23:33,862

So you look for subtle cues like that,

and you can deliver the same message,

442

00:23:34,432 --> 00:23:38,782

but worded differently, worded in

a way that caters to that person's

443

00:23:38,782 --> 00:23:40,942

personality and communication styles.

444

00:23:41,692 --> 00:23:45,712

John: And that's just from paying

attention to some of the detail

445

00:23:45,712 --> 00:23:48,592

on the person and around them

in their environments as well.

446

00:23:48,592 --> 00:23:48,622

I.

447

00:23:49,237 --> 00:23:50,347

Keith Kong: Yeah, absolutely.

448

00:23:50,852 --> 00:23:51,692

John: Which is pretty awesome.

449

00:23:51,872 --> 00:23:54,752

I'm interested that you brought up

NLP and your linguistic programming.

450

00:23:54,752 --> 00:23:59,652

Some is something that certainly a number

of my listeners will know something about

451

00:23:59,652 --> 00:24:00,972

and maybe even have had training in.

452

00:24:01,062 --> 00:24:04,902

I've been through training for that

and I'm probably in the same boat as

453

00:24:04,902 --> 00:24:09,422

you as there are some bits of it that

kind of good and useful and there's

454

00:24:09,422 --> 00:24:11,462

a lot of it that's, kind of crap.

455

00:24:12,272 --> 00:24:15,992

Just don't really bother with Are

there, what are some of the other

456

00:24:15,992 --> 00:24:20,037

aspects or that you maybe have got

from that perhaps have been helpful?

457

00:24:20,922 --> 00:24:23,652

Keith Kong: I would say

anchoring is a good one, right?

458

00:24:23,742 --> 00:24:30,872

Anchoring, condiment, anchoring, which

is just tying a feeling to an object and

459

00:24:30,872 --> 00:24:34,502

now anytime that object comes out, but

psychologists might explain that as a

460

00:24:34,502 --> 00:24:36,782

form of classical conditioning, right?

461

00:24:36,782 --> 00:24:38,202

Like very pavlovian.

462

00:24:38,912 --> 00:24:42,782

You associate, if you have these

feelings, when this object is around

463

00:24:43,472 --> 00:24:46,262

now, when this object is around,

you have these feelings again.

464

00:24:46,262 --> 00:24:47,672

So it all makes sense.

465

00:24:47,672 --> 00:24:48,512

Things like that.

466

00:24:48,542 --> 00:24:51,022

The eye movements are

interesting, but I don't know.

467

00:24:51,022 --> 00:24:55,992

I think a lot of the rest of it is just

maybe like too bro sciencey in a way.

468

00:24:57,762 --> 00:25:01,077

John: It certainly made some

people a lot of money teaching it.

469

00:25:01,082 --> 00:25:02,402

There's no doubt about that.

470

00:25:02,402 --> 00:25:08,122

But yes, I think some of it is is

cheap psychology, and for me it

471

00:25:08,122 --> 00:25:13,692

uses uses a lot of peer pressure to

get results in those sort of large

472

00:25:13,692 --> 00:25:17,852

events and things where somebody I

think maybe even certain religious

473

00:25:18,737 --> 00:25:21,197

events might do similar things

where somebody feels that

474

00:25:21,197 --> 00:25:22,607

they have to go along with it.

475

00:25:23,117 --> 00:25:25,537

I think the same is I feel

the same about hypnosis.

476

00:25:26,107 --> 00:25:26,317

I dunno.

477

00:25:26,647 --> 00:25:29,047

But I'm curious what you

think about hypnosis.

478

00:25:29,077 --> 00:25:32,467

'cause I can't, I am a bit like,

I don't necessarily think it's

479

00:25:32,467 --> 00:25:35,947

a real thing, but I think we can

convince ourselves to do stuff.

480

00:25:35,947 --> 00:25:39,797

But where would you, as a mentalist, where

would you stand with something like that?

481

00:25:40,447 --> 00:25:43,472

Keith Kong: so I would say

hypnosis is a real thing.

482

00:25:43,472 --> 00:25:48,312

If you've ever been driving

a car and space out.

483

00:25:49,182 --> 00:25:49,602

you're home.

484

00:25:49,602 --> 00:25:51,132

All of a sudden you're

pulling in the driveway.

485

00:25:51,132 --> 00:25:53,082

You don't remember the

last few miles or anything.

486

00:25:53,082 --> 00:25:54,642

That's a form of hypnosis.

487

00:25:55,092 --> 00:25:58,632

We experience that all the

time in our day-to-day lives.

488

00:25:58,872 --> 00:26:02,322

It's just when it comes to a

stage hypnotist or hypnotherapy,

489

00:26:02,542 --> 00:26:04,252

it's almost as if you

are in the driver's seat.

490

00:26:04,282 --> 00:26:08,802

The hypnotist is in the passenger seat

with a roadmap, steering you, telling you

491

00:26:08,802 --> 00:26:10,482

where to go, and you allow it to happen.

492

00:26:10,902 --> 00:26:11,172

And.

493

00:26:11,952 --> 00:26:15,582

It's not, I don't wanna say it's

playing along, but in a way,

494

00:26:15,582 --> 00:26:19,092

like you are listening to these

commands and you are being receptive

495

00:26:19,092 --> 00:26:21,072

to them, and it is relaxing.

496

00:26:21,582 --> 00:26:24,342

An hour of hypnosis feels

like a night of sleep.

497

00:26:25,122 --> 00:26:27,882

I've been hypnotized,

I've hypnotized people.

498

00:26:29,142 --> 00:26:29,652

can be fun.

499

00:26:29,662 --> 00:26:31,762

I've never done hypnotherapy,

but obviously people see

500

00:26:31,762 --> 00:26:33,592

results with that as well.

501

00:26:35,452 --> 00:26:36,483

so yeah, it's real.

502

00:26:36,862 --> 00:26:39,232

There's different levels

of response to it.

503

00:26:39,232 --> 00:26:39,982

Some people.

504

00:26:40,852 --> 00:26:43,252

Are non-responsive because

they wanna fight it.

505

00:26:43,262 --> 00:26:45,692

They think oh, I'm not

weak-minded and stuff.

506

00:26:45,692 --> 00:26:48,422

And if you wanna fight with

hypnotist, you've already won.

507

00:26:48,422 --> 00:26:49,202

It won't happen.

508

00:26:49,202 --> 00:26:52,232

You're not gonna be able to do,

you wouldn't do anything that you

509

00:26:52,232 --> 00:26:56,262

wouldn't normally do under hypnosis

if you weren't under hypnosis.

510

00:26:56,562 --> 00:26:56,922

John: Yeah.

511

00:26:57,777 --> 00:27:01,077

Keith Kong: Unless you get into like

manchurian candidate type stuff,

512

00:27:01,077 --> 00:27:04,517

which is a whole nother, stage

hypnosis and that sort of thing.

513

00:27:04,907 --> 00:27:07,547

And then there's some people that

have really negative responses.

514

00:27:07,547 --> 00:27:12,047

It's called an abreaction, which is

when there's some kind of trauma from

515

00:27:12,047 --> 00:27:13,727

their past or something like that.

516

00:27:13,727 --> 00:27:18,692

And now being in this trance state,

something triggers that and brings it up.

517

00:27:19,052 --> 00:27:22,342

And they might get really

angry or pass out or shake and.

518

00:27:23,227 --> 00:27:25,567

Yeah, so you look for signs like that.

519

00:27:25,567 --> 00:27:28,597

If you bring someone up and you're

doing an induction, which is the part

520

00:27:28,597 --> 00:27:32,947

that is putting them under and you're

seeing them and their are getting

521

00:27:32,947 --> 00:27:36,853

clenched as they're sitting there, like

things like that, that's usually, it's

522

00:27:36,853 --> 00:27:39,883

not always the case, but if you see a

stage hypnosis show and they tap you

523

00:27:39,883 --> 00:27:43,153

and send you back down to your seat,

that might be one of the reasons.

524

00:27:43,153 --> 00:27:45,973

We don't want that happening on stage

and it's happened to my friends.

525

00:27:46,753 --> 00:27:50,773

they'll be doing a hypnosis show at a

school, a college or something like that.

526

00:27:50,923 --> 00:27:55,183

And a girl came up on stage,

had an abreaction, and just

527

00:27:55,183 --> 00:27:56,893

started crying on stage.

528

00:27:57,943 --> 00:28:00,583

it's obviously an awkward

moment, but now the organizers

529

00:28:00,583 --> 00:28:02,413

of that event also have concerns.

530

00:28:02,413 --> 00:28:05,953

And hypnosis doesn't come back

the next year because of it.

531

00:28:06,433 --> 00:28:07,633

But it's a thing that can happen.

532

00:28:07,633 --> 00:28:09,733

So I'd say it's definitely real.

533

00:28:09,823 --> 00:28:12,793

But yeah, there is an extent of people.

534

00:28:12,943 --> 00:28:16,663

There are even some people that will

get on stage and just play along

535

00:28:17,533 --> 00:28:17,923

John: Yeah.

536

00:28:18,073 --> 00:28:20,503

Keith Kong: the hypnotist

isn't asking them to do it, but

537

00:28:20,503 --> 00:28:21,763

they're the star of the show.

538

00:28:21,763 --> 00:28:26,833

They're up in the and oftentimes if

a hypnotist notices that he will send

539

00:28:26,833 --> 00:28:28,183

that person back to their seat too.

540

00:28:28,183 --> 00:28:29,653

'cause that's not what

we want in the show.

541

00:28:29,653 --> 00:28:32,293

We want authentic responses and reactions.

542

00:28:33,223 --> 00:28:37,503

John: So, I mean, I'm not necessarily

of the opinion, it's all bunk that

543

00:28:37,503 --> 00:28:41,703

there's something there, but I'm not sure

exactly what hypnosis is to that extent.

544

00:28:41,703 --> 00:28:45,318

It's like where do we define the line

or draw the line between it just being

545

00:28:45,718 --> 00:28:49,798

a form self hypnosis where you convince

yourself or where someone external

546

00:28:49,973 --> 00:28:54,763

to you actually has the ability to

have that mental influence over you.

547

00:28:54,943 --> 00:28:57,843

'cause I think as you suggested

that you have to give it to them.

548

00:28:57,843 --> 00:28:59,913

You have to trust the person.

549

00:28:59,913 --> 00:29:03,073

And if you put up resistance to

it's not gonna happen anyway.

550

00:29:03,973 --> 00:29:06,583

Keith Kong: And it's like a

form of mindfulness in a way.

551

00:29:07,003 --> 00:29:10,498

I remember a psychology professor

of mine who would have us do my.

552

00:29:10,603 --> 00:29:15,763

Mindfulness ex activities and exercises

at the beginning of every session, I

553

00:29:15,763 --> 00:29:19,063

once made this comparison and she didn't

like it, but I stand by it I think.

554

00:29:19,273 --> 00:29:23,293

I think she didn't like it because

people sometimes fear hypnosis

555

00:29:23,293 --> 00:29:25,603

and she didn't want 'em to fear

mindfulness and everything.

556

00:29:25,603 --> 00:29:29,293

I don't think you should fear

either of them, there are massive

557

00:29:29,293 --> 00:29:32,743

similarities between the induction

phase, the first 15 minutes of a stage

558

00:29:32,743 --> 00:29:35,533

hypnosis show and a guided meditation.

559

00:29:35,813 --> 00:29:38,483

I want you to concentrate

on that spot on the ceiling.

560

00:29:38,768 --> 00:29:40,808

Focus on that and breathe in.

561

00:29:40,808 --> 00:29:41,318

Breathe out.

562

00:29:41,318 --> 00:29:42,188

Shut your eyes.

563

00:29:42,188 --> 00:29:46,178

Think of this, you're descending down

a stair, a stairwell, like it's very

564

00:29:46,178 --> 00:29:51,218

similar, and so it just puts you in this

relaxed state, which is why it feels

565

00:29:51,218 --> 00:29:53,108

so good when you come out of hypnosis.

566

00:29:53,918 --> 00:29:57,488

Another thing, another hypnotic

technique that you can apply to

567

00:29:58,058 --> 00:30:03,488

various aspects of everyday life when

a hypnotist puts you under and then

568

00:30:03,488 --> 00:30:05,438

they bring you up, they bring you out.

569

00:30:06,668 --> 00:30:09,218

Then they put you back under,

so they'll hypnotize you.

570

00:30:09,278 --> 00:30:11,078

They'll give you a post

hypnotic suggestion.

571

00:30:11,828 --> 00:30:14,918

The moment I snap my fingers,

this is gonna happen.

572

00:30:16,028 --> 00:30:16,808

That happens.

573

00:30:16,838 --> 00:30:20,318

Then they go sleep and you're back

under, when you go back under,

574

00:30:20,318 --> 00:30:22,058

you're in deeper than before.

575

00:30:22,508 --> 00:30:26,818

So if I can bring someone, let's say it's

a sales situation or something like that,

576

00:30:27,428 --> 00:30:27,718

John: Yeah.

577

00:30:28,528 --> 00:30:30,928

Keith Kong: really selling you

on this product and you are

578

00:30:30,928 --> 00:30:32,608

ready to buy, and then I say.

579

00:30:32,968 --> 00:30:36,358

But you're probably, I don't know that

it would work, actually, or I don't know.

580

00:30:36,358 --> 00:30:38,548

You'd be a good fit for this

because of that and stuff.

581

00:30:38,548 --> 00:30:41,098

And then you're like, yeah, I guess so.

582

00:30:41,098 --> 00:30:44,038

And it like deflates you and then

you say, but actually, and now

583

00:30:44,038 --> 00:30:45,418

you like, bring them back in.

584

00:30:45,418 --> 00:30:47,218

Now they're, they want it even more.

585

00:30:47,675 --> 00:30:49,468

They're locked in even more.

586

00:30:49,468 --> 00:30:50,878

A few other things on hypnosis.

587

00:30:51,583 --> 00:30:54,013

Techniques include things

like pacing and leading.

588

00:30:54,283 --> 00:30:58,423

So pacing might be, John, as you're

sitting there with your feet flat on

589

00:30:58,423 --> 00:31:01,993

the ground hands in your lap, you're

gonna start to imagine that you're

590

00:31:01,993 --> 00:31:07,633

stuck to the seat and the harder you

try to stand, the more you stick.

591

00:31:07,633 --> 00:31:13,003

And so now I'm pacing by saying,

as you sit there and you are feet

592

00:31:13,003 --> 00:31:15,553

flat on the ground and they are your

hands in your lap, and they are.

593

00:31:16,333 --> 00:31:19,123

are going to start to feel

this, and now I'm leading.

594

00:31:19,573 --> 00:31:24,733

So I'm saying like as this is

happening, this is also gonna happen.

595

00:31:24,733 --> 00:31:28,303

And then if you notice the language,

I'm saying things like the harder you

596

00:31:28,303 --> 00:31:30,793

try, the more you're going to stick.

597

00:31:31,183 --> 00:31:35,023

I'm not saying like I'm saying

try, you're gonna try to stand,

598

00:31:35,023 --> 00:31:38,083

you're not gonna be able to do it

because you're gonna stick harder.

599

00:31:38,083 --> 00:31:41,293

So there's a lot of language and

there's a lot of structure and

600

00:31:41,293 --> 00:31:43,303

hypnosis as well that helps get

601

00:31:43,313 --> 00:31:43,603

John: Yeah.

602

00:31:45,083 --> 00:31:49,433

And from my, I remember from my

NRP and hypnosis trainings, that

603

00:31:49,433 --> 00:31:51,083

was like embedded commands, right?

604

00:31:51,083 --> 00:31:51,353

It is.

605

00:31:51,453 --> 00:31:55,213

You tell, you're telling them

already what to do but it sounds like

606

00:31:55,363 --> 00:31:57,013

you're just pacing their experience.

607

00:31:57,598 --> 00:31:57,928

Keith Kong: Yep.

608

00:31:59,143 --> 00:31:59,923

John: Very interesting.

609

00:31:59,923 --> 00:31:59,953

I.

610

00:32:01,168 --> 00:32:04,363

From I love the psychology of all of this.

611

00:32:04,423 --> 00:32:09,953

I wonder what psychological insights,

especially that you might have that could

612

00:32:09,953 --> 00:32:15,333

be of great insight or benefit to people

who are on the stage as professional

613

00:32:15,333 --> 00:32:17,973

speakers and and communicators.

614

00:32:20,163 --> 00:32:24,673

Keith Kong: I think a topic that

probably comes up a lot is tonality.

615

00:32:25,033 --> 00:32:27,323

Is a big thing when it

comes to communication.

616

00:32:27,983 --> 00:32:30,283

The platform, speaking from the stages,

617

00:32:32,293 --> 00:32:37,483

I would say more difficult than the

one-on-one situations because now you've

618

00:32:37,483 --> 00:32:41,353

got a massive crowd and you can look at

the audience and see what sort of industry

619

00:32:41,353 --> 00:32:46,573

they come from and get different ideas

based on that of who you're dealing with.

620

00:32:46,573 --> 00:32:49,063

But when it's one-on-one,

it's much more easy.

621

00:32:49,843 --> 00:32:51,943

I would say tonality is a big thing.

622

00:32:52,273 --> 00:32:58,123

It's probably come up here a lot, but body

language we know is 55% of communication

623

00:32:58,133 --> 00:33:04,613

is nonverbal and tonality accounts for

38%, so it's the second largest one.

624

00:33:04,733 --> 00:33:08,243

You could say some really horrible

things, but if you say it in the

625

00:33:08,243 --> 00:33:10,178

right tone, then it'll fly by.

626

00:33:10,913 --> 00:33:13,613

Think of tonality as what dogs understand.

627

00:33:13,613 --> 00:33:14,453

So I could yell at

628

00:33:14,578 --> 00:33:14,868

John: Yeah.

629

00:33:15,473 --> 00:33:17,693

Keith Kong: and be like,

you are the best dog ever.

630

00:33:17,693 --> 00:33:21,203

And the dog's gonna like freak out and

run away because he doesn't understand

631

00:33:21,203 --> 00:33:23,033

the words, but he understands that tone.

632

00:33:23,363 --> 00:33:28,013

Whereas I could be like, oh, you're such

a bad boy while petting him and he is

633

00:33:28,013 --> 00:33:29,723

gonna be wagging his tail and loving it.

634

00:33:30,593 --> 00:33:34,733

Think of tonality when you

speak when it comes to saying

635

00:33:34,733 --> 00:33:36,233

something really important.

636

00:33:37,298 --> 00:33:42,743

Slow down and deliver those lines, and

now it just hits different like the pacing

637

00:33:42,743 --> 00:33:44,753

of the speed of the speech and tone.

638

00:33:45,233 --> 00:33:48,233

Those are all very big, I

think for influence as well.

639

00:33:49,003 --> 00:33:52,298

John: And that suggests that you

want to have them congruent to

640

00:33:52,298 --> 00:33:55,928

what's going on or to the emotion of

a particular piece that you're in.

641

00:33:56,228 --> 00:33:56,888

Keith Kong: Absolutely.

642

00:33:56,888 --> 00:34:00,878

Because anytime there's an

inconsistency or incongruency between

643

00:34:00,908 --> 00:34:04,628

those three forms of communication,

words, tonality, body language.

644

00:34:05,123 --> 00:34:06,893

It comes across as disjointed.

645

00:34:06,893 --> 00:34:08,693

It's what we see as sarcasm.

646

00:34:09,112 --> 00:34:11,413

I could say wow, John,

you're a really smart guy.

647

00:34:11,713 --> 00:34:14,382

Or I could say, wow, John,

you are really smart.

648

00:34:14,803 --> 00:34:20,713

It's the same words, but the tone makes

a massive shift because comes across

649

00:34:20,713 --> 00:34:23,053

as sarcasm because they're disjointed.

650

00:34:24,773 --> 00:34:28,943

John: Are you, when you are on stage, are

you conscious of your own body language or

651

00:34:29,033 --> 00:34:30,983

maybe even of your audience body language?

652

00:34:32,023 --> 00:34:34,838

Keith Kong: I try to

be of my own for sure.

653

00:34:34,838 --> 00:34:38,128

We do this thing in rehearsal

sometimes where we stand on of paper.

654

00:34:38,908 --> 00:34:39,368

It's what is it?

655

00:34:39,368 --> 00:34:42,368

Eight and a half by 11

inches sheet of paper.

656

00:34:42,368 --> 00:34:46,918

And we don't move from that paper

unless it's motivated by something,

657

00:34:47,788 --> 00:34:51,628

because I myself am a natural pacer.

658

00:34:51,658 --> 00:34:54,868

If I'm talking on the phone, I

am pacing around the whole house.

659

00:34:54,868 --> 00:34:56,728

I'll get my day's worth

of steps in that way.

660

00:34:57,748 --> 00:34:58,918

But on stage.

661

00:34:59,308 --> 00:35:00,478

It is important.

662

00:35:00,478 --> 00:35:01,708

It goes back to that thing.

663

00:35:01,708 --> 00:35:03,448

If it's not adding, it's taking away.

664

00:35:03,448 --> 00:35:05,488

So everything has to be deliberate.

665

00:35:08,238 --> 00:35:11,413

John: I like that all your movement

on stage should be volitional.

666

00:35:11,413 --> 00:35:15,773

And certainly I feel for anyone

who's on stage for whatever reason,

667

00:35:16,043 --> 00:35:19,643

if you are pacing around or rocking

or those kinds of things without

668

00:35:19,643 --> 00:35:22,703

purpose, it makes you look unconfident.

669

00:35:23,663 --> 00:35:27,323

Like it may be damages your credibility

from that sort of perspective.

670

00:35:27,323 --> 00:35:30,533

So I think that's a very

valuable thing to pin onto.

671

00:35:30,998 --> 00:35:31,298

Keith Kong: Yeah.

672

00:35:31,298 --> 00:35:32,108

Not just that.

673

00:35:32,408 --> 00:35:36,818

Have you ever heard someone say something

like, sit down, you're making me nervous,

674

00:35:37,058 --> 00:35:41,498

or you get, you make people anxious

by moving or just patting your leg and

675

00:35:42,308 --> 00:35:43,748

John: Yeah, mirror neurons, I guess there.

676

00:35:44,258 --> 00:35:44,528

Keith Kong: Yeah.

677

00:35:44,528 --> 00:35:45,218

Mirror neurons.

678

00:35:45,218 --> 00:35:45,878

Exactly.

679

00:35:45,878 --> 00:35:45,938

I.

680

00:35:47,018 --> 00:35:49,448

John: So we pick up on

what's going on from stage.

681

00:35:49,928 --> 00:35:53,438

And with the audience, you don't,

do you pay attention to, like how

682

00:35:53,438 --> 00:35:56,838

they're sitting or how they're

physically responding to what you do?

683

00:35:57,363 --> 00:35:58,653

Keith Kong: Yeah, absolutely.

684

00:35:58,833 --> 00:36:00,543

It's that same thing.

685

00:36:00,873 --> 00:36:04,113

If their feet or nose are pointed

towards the door, you're in trouble.

686

00:36:04,323 --> 00:36:10,173

You can also gauge like people have

short spans sometimes, so I often tell,

687

00:36:10,173 --> 00:36:11,643

I think the reason that I get booked.

688

00:36:11,988 --> 00:36:17,028

For 45 minutes most often is because I

usually tell my clients and prospects,

689

00:36:17,388 --> 00:36:21,408

I found this to be the sweet spot

where it feels like a complete show.

690

00:36:21,408 --> 00:36:22,668

Everybody loves it.

691

00:36:22,668 --> 00:36:25,038

It leaves them wanting

more, but it's not tired.

692

00:36:25,038 --> 00:36:26,208

By the end of it, they're not.

693

00:36:26,928 --> 00:36:27,978

not overdone.

694

00:36:28,158 --> 00:36:29,928

The novelty hasn't worn off.

695

00:36:30,818 --> 00:36:31,108

John: Yeah.

696

00:36:31,408 --> 00:36:36,588

Keith Kong: So a 60 minute show is usually

where I push it to, maybe 70 minutes.

697

00:36:36,588 --> 00:36:39,468

If we're in a theater and

it's something theatrical.

698

00:36:40,203 --> 00:36:43,683

If you go any more than that, 90 minutes

you mentioned having seen Darren Brown.

699

00:36:43,713 --> 00:36:45,423

There's usually an intermission

700

00:36:45,873 --> 00:36:46,263

John: Yes.

701

00:36:47,163 --> 00:36:48,738

Keith Kong: people would

go stir crazy without.

702

00:36:51,408 --> 00:36:55,598

John: I think so when you are

performing, do you have I, I ask

703

00:36:55,598 --> 00:36:56,798

'cause I do this as a speaker.

704

00:36:57,138 --> 00:37:00,948

Do you have a conscience about this is

how I want to be showing up energetically.

705

00:37:00,948 --> 00:37:05,278

This is what I'm aiming to project

out to my audience of how I want to

706

00:37:05,278 --> 00:37:06,838

be showing up in the performance.

707

00:37:07,388 --> 00:37:08,738

And what would that be if you do.

708

00:37:09,623 --> 00:37:11,948

Keith Kong: Yeah, it comes down to

what do you want 'em to be saying in

709

00:37:11,948 --> 00:37:13,958

the stalls when the show lets out.

710

00:37:14,033 --> 00:37:18,473

They go to the bathroom and they're

thinking about the show that they just

711

00:37:18,473 --> 00:37:20,273

saw, what do you want 'em to be thinking?

712

00:37:20,273 --> 00:37:21,413

What do you want 'em to be saying?

713

00:37:21,463 --> 00:37:22,993

Wow, that was incredible.

714

00:37:22,993 --> 00:37:24,943

That was so mind blowing.

715

00:37:24,943 --> 00:37:26,653

And they have, they're

just full of energy.

716

00:37:26,923 --> 00:37:32,293

Or do you want them to go away

reflecting, thinking about their

717

00:37:32,293 --> 00:37:34,243

identity and who they are as a person?

718

00:37:34,243 --> 00:37:36,116

And there's no right or wrong answer.

719

00:37:36,253 --> 00:37:38,923

It's up to the entertainer

or speaker or presenter.

720

00:37:39,283 --> 00:37:40,543

To make that decision.

721

00:37:40,543 --> 00:37:46,053

And so you decide on how you want 'em to

feel and then work backwards to determine

722

00:37:46,053 --> 00:37:53,373

what you can do those thought provoking

questions or to just wow them in magic.

723

00:37:53,373 --> 00:37:57,963

We have these things that are called ta-da

moments, and it's, you don't actually say

724

00:37:57,963 --> 00:37:59,763

ta-da, but that's the gist of it, right?

725

00:37:59,908 --> 00:38:00,063

There's

726

00:38:00,208 --> 00:38:00,498

John: Yeah.

727

00:38:01,023 --> 00:38:03,363

Keith Kong: thing happens

and the audience goes, wow.

728

00:38:03,723 --> 00:38:06,363

But sometimes in mentalism.

729

00:38:07,578 --> 00:38:13,998

We don't want that big applause

moment because, and sometimes we

730

00:38:13,998 --> 00:38:17,358

do, but sometimes we don't because

that's not a natural response.

731

00:38:18,618 --> 00:38:23,488

genuine amazement isn't my instinct

after that isn't to start clapping.

732

00:38:23,608 --> 00:38:25,348

That's what we are trained to do.

733

00:38:26,043 --> 00:38:26,333

John: Yeah.

734

00:38:26,428 --> 00:38:31,888

Keith Kong: do something and it's

just silence for a moment because

735

00:38:31,888 --> 00:38:33,778

everyone's mouth is just like.

736

00:38:33,778 --> 00:38:35,083

and they're looking around.

737

00:38:35,923 --> 00:38:40,333

The other day I did a show, it was

actually like a really informal thing.

738

00:38:41,533 --> 00:38:44,893

And the audience, it was

like a hundred people.

739

00:38:44,893 --> 00:38:48,368

They started Chanting Witch,

which that was a fun one.

740

00:38:49,728 --> 00:38:53,263

John: Did you want them to be or were

you in a very religious environment?

741

00:38:53,383 --> 00:38:53,863

Keith Kong: Thank you.

742

00:38:55,118 --> 00:38:58,003

No, they, it was, they meant

well by and they were just

743

00:38:58,303 --> 00:38:58,798

John: Oh good.

744

00:38:59,743 --> 00:39:02,993

I know you've already had some great

successes with your career so far, and

745

00:39:02,993 --> 00:39:05,168

you've got some exciting plans ahead.

746

00:39:05,168 --> 00:39:08,678

I dunno if you're able to talk about

what you've got coming up right now,

747

00:39:08,678 --> 00:39:10,748

but what's what can you share with us?

748

00:39:12,488 --> 00:39:15,428

Keith Kong: It's funny that you

prefaced it like that because it's,

749

00:39:15,518 --> 00:39:18,518

unfortunately there are some probably.

750

00:39:18,983 --> 00:39:22,643

One of the biggest things that I'm

working on right now I'm not allowed

751

00:39:22,643 --> 00:39:27,773

to say much about, but the things that

I am allowed to say are I'm working

752

00:39:27,773 --> 00:39:31,253

on a book and it's going to have

a lot of the things that we talked

753

00:39:31,253 --> 00:39:33,833

about today included and so much more.

754

00:39:33,833 --> 00:39:39,743

It's like a psychological Swiss Army

knife, so tons of practical situational

755

00:39:39,743 --> 00:39:43,223

psychology from the boardroom

to the bedroom, to the bathroom.

756

00:39:43,223 --> 00:39:46,703

It's got everything in there

and I'm really happy with that.

757

00:39:46,703 --> 00:39:47,213

We've got.

758

00:39:47,558 --> 00:39:50,498

A section on memory techniques,

a section on the psychology

759

00:39:50,498 --> 00:39:54,308

of attraction, psychology of

influence and persuasion sales.

760

00:39:54,308 --> 00:39:58,178

It's so very excited about it,

and so I've been working on that.

761

00:39:58,448 --> 00:40:01,568

I also just have a ton of

corporate events coming up.

762

00:40:01,598 --> 00:40:05,108

I'm being booked out further

in advance than ever before.

763

00:40:05,138 --> 00:40:08,828

I've got things booked

through mid 2026 right now.

764

00:40:09,668 --> 00:40:13,328

That's not to say there's no

openings from now till then if you're

765

00:40:13,328 --> 00:40:15,338

interested inquire, but it's great.

766

00:40:15,338 --> 00:40:20,508

We've got tons of corporate events

coming up, national conferences award

767

00:40:20,508 --> 00:40:22,128

shows and those types of things.

768

00:40:23,148 --> 00:40:23,328

John: Great.

769

00:40:23,433 --> 00:40:27,663

I will certainly be wanting to check

out your book once it's available and

770

00:40:27,663 --> 00:40:30,713

even though it's stuff, you can't talk

about we wish you every success with

771

00:40:30,728 --> 00:40:34,458

all of that and the stuff that you can

talk about as well for those who maybe

772

00:40:34,458 --> 00:40:37,908

do want to come and find out a bit more

about you and maybe connect with you so

773

00:40:37,908 --> 00:40:42,428

that they can stay tuned for what you've

got going on and what, when your book's

774

00:40:42,428 --> 00:40:45,368

out and those kinds of things, what's

the best way for people to do that?

775

00:40:46,073 --> 00:40:48,893

Keith Kong: Yeah, so I

will give you the link.

776

00:40:48,953 --> 00:40:51,503

My website is kong mentalist.com,

777

00:40:51,503 --> 00:40:54,233

KONG, mental IS t.com.

778

00:40:54,683 --> 00:40:58,613

If you go to that website, if

you do kong mentalist.com/.

779

00:40:58,898 --> 00:41:00,546

Links, L-I-N-K-S.

780

00:41:00,728 --> 00:41:01,868

It will give you everything.

781

00:41:01,868 --> 00:41:06,308

So you'll have the links to my Instagram,

YouTube, where to sign up for the mailing

782

00:41:06,308 --> 00:41:07,778

list, and that way you'll be notified.

783

00:41:07,778 --> 00:41:11,528

You'll be the first to know when that book

gets launched and everything like that.

784

00:41:11,738 --> 00:41:14,168

So kong mentalist.com/links

785

00:41:14,168 --> 00:41:15,098

will have everything.

786

00:41:15,458 --> 00:41:18,018

And on most social medias,

I'm at Kong Mentalist.

787

00:41:19,758 --> 00:41:20,358

John: Fantastic.

788

00:41:20,418 --> 00:41:22,968

That's gonna be in the show notes for

anyone who just wants a link to click

789

00:41:22,968 --> 00:41:24,318

on, but I'm sure you can find it.

790

00:41:24,318 --> 00:41:27,617

It's been from what from

what Keith has just told you.

791

00:41:27,627 --> 00:41:30,237

Keith, you've shared, you shared a

lot of great insights and there's

792

00:41:30,237 --> 00:41:33,237

some nice little hacks and stuff

for people to pick out today and

793

00:41:33,237 --> 00:41:34,467

it's been a fun conversation.

794

00:41:34,467 --> 00:41:36,657

So I just wanna really thank

you for coming and being my

795

00:41:36,657 --> 00:41:37,947

guest on present Influence.

796

00:41:38,397 --> 00:41:38,727

Keith Kong: Yeah.

797

00:41:38,727 --> 00:41:39,387

Thank you so much.

798

00:41:39,387 --> 00:41:40,467

The time's just flown by.

799

00:41:40,467 --> 00:41:41,547

This has been really fun.

800

00:41:42,387 --> 00:41:42,867

John: It has.

801

00:41:42,867 --> 00:41:43,677

Thanks so much.

802

00:41:44,782 --> 00:41:47,662

I wonder if you're anything like

me and have a few thoughts about

803

00:41:47,662 --> 00:41:50,812

some of the things that Keith

talked about in that conversation.

804

00:41:51,382 --> 00:41:54,462

For me, it was fascinating to

hear about how we pretty much

805

00:41:54,462 --> 00:41:55,842

all work with the same triggers.

806

00:41:56,317 --> 00:41:56,437

I.

807

00:41:56,437 --> 00:42:00,397

But there are sometimes subtle

things that we can tune into

808

00:42:00,727 --> 00:42:02,407

that might give us an edge.

809

00:42:02,647 --> 00:42:05,797

Things like looking at the

context of a situation.

810

00:42:06,007 --> 00:42:08,557

One element that Keith talked about,

particularly in relation to that, was

811

00:42:08,587 --> 00:42:11,947

like maybe how someone's dressed, looking

at their shoes, to give you a sense

812

00:42:11,947 --> 00:42:14,647

of how they take care of themselves

or how they think about themselves.

813

00:42:14,917 --> 00:42:18,317

If you are in one of their

environments, like their office

814

00:42:18,317 --> 00:42:22,647

or somewhere in their home, looking

at the context of the situation.

815

00:42:22,857 --> 00:42:25,907

So you're not just looking at the person,

you're looking at them in the context of

816

00:42:25,907 --> 00:42:29,767

the space that you can pick up on some

cues around them, as to how they might

817

00:42:29,767 --> 00:42:33,637

like to be talked to, or what you, what

they might appreciate you focusing in on.

818

00:42:34,087 --> 00:42:37,737

Notice the things that they kind

of want you to notice, even if it

819

00:42:37,737 --> 00:42:41,997

hasn't been super conscious from

them, what is it that they've made on

820

00:42:41,997 --> 00:42:44,007

display that they want you to notice?

821

00:42:45,072 --> 00:42:49,272

It really was interesting to me to have

that talk about NLP and they note that

822

00:42:49,272 --> 00:42:50,862

I'm pretty much with Keith on that.

823

00:42:50,862 --> 00:42:54,582

Some aspects of it are great,

some aspects of it, not so much.

824

00:42:54,582 --> 00:42:58,122

And there's bits I use and

bits I tend to dismiss.

825

00:42:58,452 --> 00:43:02,712

Even having paid a small fortune to

do NLP trainings, I'm very nearly went

826

00:43:02,712 --> 00:43:04,992

into becoming an NLP trainer myself, so.

827

00:43:05,017 --> 00:43:08,197

Kind of glad these days that I didn't,

and the whole thing, I don't know, I,

828

00:43:08,407 --> 00:43:11,497

I could be wrong about this, but the

whole NLP movement thing does seem to

829

00:43:11,497 --> 00:43:13,387

have died off somewhat, thankfully.

830

00:43:13,717 --> 00:43:15,987

Although I'm certainly aware that

people like Tony Robbins is still

831

00:43:16,007 --> 00:43:19,367

doing very well with, with their

events, and some people think they're

832

00:43:19,367 --> 00:43:21,167

wonderful, some people less so.

833

00:43:21,167 --> 00:43:22,517

I'm not gonna get into it here.

834

00:43:22,622 --> 00:43:25,022

I'll say this though, I've always

been a little on the fence with

835

00:43:25,022 --> 00:43:28,652

hypnosis as to how much of a thing

is it, is it really just we're

836

00:43:28,652 --> 00:43:30,302

convincing ourselves to do things?

837

00:43:30,302 --> 00:43:33,222

Is it more that somebody else

can actually guide as we go

838

00:43:33,222 --> 00:43:34,932

into particular trance states?

839

00:43:35,542 --> 00:43:38,032

There are elements of it that

I'm like, yeah, I get it.

840

00:43:38,032 --> 00:43:41,572

But I, it's so hard to

define and really pinpoint.

841

00:43:41,882 --> 00:43:46,192

I see it being more related to, as perhaps

Keith was saying, like meditative state

842

00:43:46,282 --> 00:43:51,112

mindfulness and the lights where we kind

of can slow our conscious thinking down a

843

00:43:51,112 --> 00:43:56,332

little bit, and maybe influence ourselves

more effectively in those states.

844

00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,560

So whilst I wouldn't necessarily suggest

that everyone needs to go out and

845

00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,280

study mentalism, unless you actually

want to be a stage mentalist or mind

846

00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,880

reader or something like that, then

it might not be the thing for you.

847

00:44:07,180 --> 00:44:10,270

But there are certainly some tips

and tricks we can pick up on.

848

00:44:10,270 --> 00:44:13,810

And as professional communicators,

we should pay attention to the things

849

00:44:13,810 --> 00:44:19,060

that can have great influence with

our staging now, we will always hear

850

00:44:19,060 --> 00:44:22,750

people talking about things like

vocal variety, especially if you

851

00:44:22,750 --> 00:44:26,400

ever go to a Toastmasters or public

speaking club, is one of the bits

852

00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,060

of feedback that comes back more

often than just about anything else.

853

00:44:30,860 --> 00:44:36,140

But to know that it's a tool of influence

and that playing with the speed that

854

00:44:36,140 --> 00:44:38,300

you talk with can be that as well.

855

00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:42,500

And playing with your volume, so

many different vocal elements that

856

00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:47,130

can captivate your audience, that

can keep them engaged and even

857

00:44:47,130 --> 00:44:49,290

enthralled in what you're talking about.

858

00:44:50,710 --> 00:44:53,610

These are really good things to play

with and I like this whole principle

859

00:44:53,610 --> 00:44:57,240

of it's far easier to play with

these things when you have a well

860

00:44:57,270 --> 00:45:01,590

practiced rehearsed talk that you can

go out into the world and deliver.

861

00:45:01,890 --> 00:45:06,170

It's gonna make it easier to do

the finessing, to be a little more

862

00:45:06,170 --> 00:45:07,850

improvisational, to be in the moment.

863

00:45:08,340 --> 00:45:13,860

But as Keith dutifully reminded us not to

get ourselves stuck into a rut where we

864

00:45:13,860 --> 00:45:18,380

are just doing it from memory and maybe

even just phoning it in after a time.

865

00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:22,730

We have to find the ways to keep

our presentations fresh for us

866

00:45:22,730 --> 00:45:24,500

as well as for our audiences.

867

00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,690

So if you have already created

a keynote talk, great, but

868

00:45:28,690 --> 00:45:30,640

it is not carved in stone.

869

00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,480

It should be a living thing

that you get to update.

870

00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:38,020

It's not like when we write a book and

you have to publish it and then that's it.

871

00:45:38,020 --> 00:45:38,680

Boom, it's published.

872

00:45:38,730 --> 00:45:42,570

Sure you can do a revised version later

on, but it's not really the same as

873

00:45:42,570 --> 00:45:46,890

being able to, maybe the next time you

do a presentation, bring in a new bit

874

00:45:46,890 --> 00:45:51,180

of supporting evidence or a bit of a

development from where you've been at.

875

00:45:51,690 --> 00:45:54,540

Things do develop, we

learn more over time.

876

00:45:54,540 --> 00:45:58,280

We see things a little differently

and sometimes we find out the things

877

00:45:58,280 --> 00:45:59,485

that we've been teaching for years,

878

00:45:59,990 --> 00:46:03,740

we probably need to stop teaching,

and not necessarily that they're

879

00:46:03,740 --> 00:46:06,380

wrong, but maybe they've just

been superseded by something else.

880

00:46:06,380 --> 00:46:11,560

And we should be able to step into

those things and not be dogmatic about

881

00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,120

how we do things, how we perform.

882

00:46:13,390 --> 00:46:16,900

It will get stale for us, and it

will get stale for audiences too.

883

00:46:17,170 --> 00:46:23,540

We absolutely must adapt, at least

small elements of our presentations

884

00:46:23,590 --> 00:46:27,790

to the audiences we're in front of,

to the cities and countries that we

885

00:46:27,790 --> 00:46:29,620

are in when we are delivering them.

886

00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:34,066

Let's personalize little aspects

of it and we should always aim,

887

00:46:34,066 --> 00:46:39,406

I think, to improve one particular

aspect of our talk and presentation

888

00:46:39,436 --> 00:46:40,936

might be how we say something.

889

00:46:40,946 --> 00:46:42,926

It might be changing up

a story a little bit.

890

00:46:42,926 --> 00:46:44,876

It might be playing with

the order of things.

891

00:46:45,566 --> 00:46:50,196

Keep it fresh for you and be open

to what actually makes more sense.

892

00:46:50,676 --> 00:46:53,376

And some of that's gonna come from

audience feedback and some of it's

893

00:46:53,376 --> 00:46:57,996

gonna come from what feels right and in

flow for you when you're on the stage.

894

00:46:59,156 --> 00:47:01,976

Lots of things to consider

from this episode, and I hope

895

00:47:01,976 --> 00:47:03,206

that you've enjoyed it too.

896

00:47:03,536 --> 00:47:06,866

Now if you are looking to punch

up your keynote, or maybe you

897

00:47:06,866 --> 00:47:09,476

haven't written your keynote yet

and you want a bit of help and

898

00:47:09,476 --> 00:47:11,576

guidance around that, get in touch.

899

00:47:11,576 --> 00:47:14,096

You can find out more about

[email protected]

900

00:47:14,366 --> 00:47:18,346

or come and connect with me on LinkedIn

and shoot me a message there and we could

901

00:47:18,346 --> 00:47:20,926

have a little chat about where you're at

as a speaker right now, where you want

902

00:47:20,926 --> 00:47:25,516

to get to and what's available here

to get you to where you want to get to.

903

00:47:26,216 --> 00:47:28,016

So don't be afraid to

reach out and get in touch.

904

00:47:29,141 --> 00:47:33,431

I'm still looking for a handful of people

who would like to be coached on the show.

905

00:47:33,431 --> 00:47:35,381

So that's a free coaching session for you.

906

00:47:35,741 --> 00:47:37,181

30, maybe 40 minutes.

907

00:47:37,181 --> 00:47:37,961

We'll see how we go.

908

00:47:38,261 --> 00:47:43,446

But the catch or the cost, if you like,

is that that coaching call is gonna be

909

00:47:43,476 --> 00:47:48,426

broadcast, is going to be published in

the podcast, so other people will be able

910

00:47:48,426 --> 00:47:53,196

to watch on YouTube or listen on podcast

channels and to your coaching session.

911

00:47:53,196 --> 00:47:54,846

So we all get to learn

and benefit from it.

912

00:47:54,976 --> 00:47:58,646

While we speak is a private coaching

session, but it's not gonna stay private.

913

00:47:58,916 --> 00:48:00,416

That is the agreement that we make.

914

00:48:00,416 --> 00:48:03,956

If you are interested in being

coached on Present Influence, whether

915

00:48:03,956 --> 00:48:07,196

it's developing your keynote or

even getting started as a speaker.

916

00:48:07,701 --> 00:48:10,011

If you checked out the first

coaching episode with Julia

917

00:48:10,011 --> 00:48:13,441

Packwood, you will know that

that was a great coaching episode.

918

00:48:13,451 --> 00:48:16,741

Julia's just getting started with

her speaking career and I think

919

00:48:16,741 --> 00:48:19,411

we got made some really great

progress in that one session.

920

00:48:19,771 --> 00:48:23,251

You might be a little further along

with your speaking journey than Julia.

921

00:48:23,496 --> 00:48:26,966

Either way, get in touch if you are

open to being coached on the show and

922

00:48:26,966 --> 00:48:31,136

maybe even helping others through your

coaching session, maybe you just wanna

923

00:48:31,136 --> 00:48:32,546

listen to the show and that's fine.

924

00:48:32,546 --> 00:48:36,146

I absolutely appreciate you for

doing that and for tuning in today.

925

00:48:36,236 --> 00:48:38,306

Now, I hope you are already

subscribed to the show.

926

00:48:38,306 --> 00:48:40,226

If not, it only takes a moment to do that.

927

00:48:40,226 --> 00:48:43,196

You can click the plus button

on Spotify or follow on Apple

928

00:48:43,196 --> 00:48:46,596

Podcasts, or maybe it's something

different on your podcast provider.

929

00:48:46,806 --> 00:48:50,346

Or if you are watching on YouTube and

you've got this far into the video

930

00:48:50,346 --> 00:48:53,286

and you haven't already pressed,

like and subscribe, please do and

931

00:48:53,286 --> 00:48:54,426

maybe even leave a comment as well.

932

00:48:54,426 --> 00:48:57,546

What has been the biggest takeaway

for you from this episode?

933

00:48:58,371 --> 00:49:02,901

I am gonna be back on Friday breaking

down a story that I delivered just a

934

00:49:02,901 --> 00:49:07,941

week ago, last Sunday at a storytelling

contest here in Valencia, Spain.

935

00:49:08,241 --> 00:49:10,421

It won me top raconteur of the night.

936

00:49:10,421 --> 00:49:15,511

I got voted the top storyteller for the

evening, it is a bit of a personal story.

937

00:49:15,511 --> 00:49:16,681

But I hope you'll enjoy it.

938

00:49:16,681 --> 00:49:20,011

It's certainly got some laughs in there

and some ooh moments in there as well.

939

00:49:20,216 --> 00:49:23,816

And I'm gonna break down how that

story ended up getting put together.

940

00:49:24,056 --> 00:49:27,386

I will probably try and get the organizer

for these events onto the show as well.

941

00:49:27,576 --> 00:49:30,876

Because I think what he's doing

around helping people get on stage,

942

00:49:30,876 --> 00:49:33,976

doing storytelling and running the

workshops that he's doing, is something

943

00:49:33,976 --> 00:49:35,446

that's worth sharing with you too.

944

00:49:36,276 --> 00:49:37,776

All right, so I hope

you'll join me for that.

945

00:49:37,826 --> 00:49:42,056

At this moment, I haven't completely

decided which of the next of my queued

946

00:49:42,056 --> 00:49:44,396

up guest interviews I'm gonna bring you.

947

00:49:44,666 --> 00:49:45,596

There is a reason for that.

948

00:49:45,596 --> 00:49:47,006

I might share it with you next week.

949

00:49:47,276 --> 00:49:50,876

However, I will be back on

Wednesday and Friday next week

950

00:49:51,086 --> 00:49:52,466

with more Present Influence.

951

00:49:52,526 --> 00:49:55,556

And so wherever you're going, whatever

you're doing, have an amazing rest of day.

952

00:49:55,646 --> 00:49:56,336

See you next time.