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15. Growing Your Show & Biz Through Podcast Guesting w/ Natalie Koussa
Episode 15 • 5th October 2023 • Podcast That Pays • Angie Jordan
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In this episode, Angie talks to Natalie Koussa, messaging and storytelling expert, all about how to refine your message and story and get booked on more podcasts.

If you are looking to get really intentional about being a guest on podcasts to grow your audience, influence, and podcast, this episode delivers the why, the how, and the motivation you need to get started on your podcast tour.

Natalie is also the creator of The Speakeasy, a program designed to help you refine your messaging and your story, find relevant podcasts to pitch to, craft your pitch, and book more shows. Go here to learn more about joining The Speakeasy. https://www.nataliekoussa.com/speakeasy?affiliate=angiemjordan


If you are ready to create a podcast that pays for your business, head over to www.podcastthatpays.com

Follow me on Instagram @angiemjordan

Join us over in my Facebook Group- Launch Grow Explode Your Podcast.

Music credit: Mavericks by Harrison Amer. A Podcast Launch Bestie production

Transcripts

Speaker:

So today you guys, I have a

very special guest for you.

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I'm super excited to talk

all things podcast guesting.

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I know that a lot of you are, wanting

to grow , your current podcast and grow

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your audience and Get more visibility.

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And this is always a , really

great way to do that.

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So I have miss Natalie Kusa.

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I hope I'm saying your

last name correctly.

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It's flawless.

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I love it.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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every time I have a guest on it.

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It's like, I never ask in advance.

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And then when I do it, I'm just

like winging it, but I get it right.

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So.

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So happy to have you Natalie and

talk all things podcast, guesting and

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what you're doing in your business,

because I absolutely love it.

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So can you just start off by just

telling us a little bit about you

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and your business and what you do?

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Yeah, sure.

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So I'm Natalie.

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Hi, the through line of

my business is messaging.

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I'm your messaging BFF.

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I just love.

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All things messaging.

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So I have two main offers.

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One is the Speakeasy, which is

all about growing your business

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by speaking on podcasts.

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And of course the key to speaking on

podcasts in ways that actually work

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is having really stellar messaging.

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And then I have Luminous,

which is my mastermind.

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And it's all about offer

messaging, sales messaging, but

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that's the link between the two.

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I love that.

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And, I think the thing that

really Attracts me to your work.

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And that really resonates with me is it's

not just about being a podcast guest.

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, I remember when we first

connected and you're just like,

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it's not just about pitching.

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I don't teach pitching.

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I'm not just teaching pitching.

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, and I know now why you were

like really adamant about that.

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It's because that's literally all that's.

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It's mostly out there.

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It's like, it's 2, 000 a month here.

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Let me pitch you to all these

podcasts, but there's not a lot

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of work done around your messaging

and refining that and, and how it's

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really going to tie back to building

your authority and your credibility.

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So can you tell me a little bit about.

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Why your philosophy about why messaging

is the key and so important , when

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you are being a podcast guest?

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Yeah, sure.

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So to be clear, I do teach pitching, but I

don't teach only pitching and it's because

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Anyone can get booked on podcasts, Angie.

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Like, you know this as well as I do.

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Anyone can get a list of 100 podcasts

and do the little featured thing on

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their website and all that good stuff.

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But it really depends why you

want to speak on podcasts.

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If you want to speak on podcasts

because you want to grow your business,

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you want to grow your podcast, if

you want to call in really aligned

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clients, Your messaging needs to be

on point because your messaging is

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what differentiates you between all

the other millions of people that are

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offering exactly the same thing as you.

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So if you're truly playing a numbers game,

sure, go ahead and just pitch yourself and

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get booked on tons and tons of podcasts.

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I think the only reason I would

recommend that is if you're an author

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and you're building, you need a really

big platform to get a publishing deal

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or just to get your book into as many

hands as possible, then I think that

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can be a really good strategy for you.

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But if you are selling.

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One to one work, high end done for you

packages, you know, most of my clients are

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working really closely with their clients.

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You only need a handful of clients a

year and you want those clients to be

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super aligned with what it is that you

offer and that's where you're messaging.

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That's how you communicate with that level

of client that wants to know that you

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really get them and you get the nuance

they're working with and you understand

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their industry and you can get kind of

results they want and all that good stuff.

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That's.

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All tied up in your messaging.

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Yeah.

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And I love that you said what is

the reason why you're wanting to

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be on other podcasts and , what

are your goals and it just.

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I think it's so important.

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And I talk about this.

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I think I just wrote a

post about this today.

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I've been like a content creating

machine lately for some reason.

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I've just, I woke up, I rolled

over and I'm like, into my notes.

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Oh, I'm so jealous.

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It has unlocked.

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Something has unlocked.

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Cause I feel like I have been silent for

months and I now I'm just like, I got it.

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And it's because I'm having a shift

in, in my messaging, going on.

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But so I think.

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One of the things for me when you

are starting to when you're coming

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into the podcast space in general,

this is something that I talk about

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with starting your own podcast.

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It's what are your goals?

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Like what is it that you're

truly trying to accomplish?

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Because there are a lot of

different ways to go about it.

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Like you said, if you are like

purely in this for the numbers and you

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just want to be on as many podcasts.

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As you possibly can.

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There was a guy in a one of these

podcast groups the other day that

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was like, I've been on 747 podcasts.

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Here's what I've learned.

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And I was like, holy

shit, like 747 podcasts.

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Like it was some, it might not have

been that number exactly, but it

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was some crazy number like that.

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And I was just like.

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Whoa.

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And I think that was the

strategy behind it for him.

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Right.

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And so I think that there's a

lot to be said for being really

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intentional and knowing what it is

that you're trying to accomplish and

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what you're trying to accomplish.

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Like what's the in, what's the end

game or what's the six month game or

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what's the, what's the year long game?

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Where do you want to be?

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What is it that you're

really trying to accomplish?

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And understanding that there are

different strategies out there.

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There are different things for you

and things that you need to do.

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Like when you, if you want to launch

a podcast and you're just wanting to,

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rank in the top 10 when you launch your

podcast, there is an absolute different

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strategy that I'm going to give you.

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Then if you're just telling me, I really

just want to launch my podcast so that.

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The people who are in my world can

experience me in a different way.

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And I don't want it to be a big fanfare.

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I'm gonna give you two different

strategies, a hundred percent.

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So tell me, since the people who are

listening, majority of the people who

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listen to, , this podcast are podcasters

who have existing podcasts or people

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who want to start their podcast and a

big thing for them is podcast growth.

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So what have you seen . In what

you do, how can that tie back to

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being able to grow your podcast

from being on other podcasts?

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Yeah, sure.

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So I think even before you start

your podcast, if you've got aspiring

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podcasters in the audience, guesting

on other people's podcasts can be such

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an amazing stepping stone into starting

your own podcast, because You get all

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the good bits of being on a podcast

without any of the responsibility

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behind the scenes of the editing and the

promotion and all of that kind of stuff.

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So I think I see a lot of people within

the Speakeasy, my podcast guesting

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program, they come in and they tell me

I've got an ambition to start my podcast,

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but let me start with my messaging with

speaking on somebody else's podcast.

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Let me grow my confidence.

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Let me just get the hang of speaking

into a mic and making it feel normal.

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And then let me go and start my podcast.

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So I think that's one way.

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And then another way is, it's growing

your network in two main ways, right?

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Like it's growing your network

with other, um, hosts so they

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can become your future guests.

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You can do podcast guesting swaps.

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You are, it's basically doing what people

do when they have loads of coffee chats.

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It's doing that, turning

it into marketing.

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So you're.

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Building a network with other hosts.

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And at the same time, you're getting in

front of all of these listeners that are

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already listening to an established show.

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And then you mention, Oh, and on my

podcast, we do dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.

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They're already podcast listeners, right?

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So you're not trying to pull

them off Instagram where they're

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like, no, no, I just want to

scroll while I'm watching Netflix.

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Like that's, that's all

I'm doing right now.

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They're actively choosing to find podcasts

that they're really interested in.

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So when you mention yours.

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They're gonna be like, Oh, amazing.

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Let me add that podcast to my list.

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So next time I'm out for a

run, I can listen to you.

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Or next time I'm folding the

laundry or whenever it is.

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Because podcasts, people that listen

to podcasts, and I know this is true

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because I've heard you say it, Angie,

and I'm also a massive podcast listener.

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We have moments in our days and in our

routines where we think to ourselves,

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what podcast do I want to listen to today?

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And then we go looking for that material.

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So then we're really listening.

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It's just a whole different level of

connection to social media or, you

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know, some of the more traditional

marketing strategies for podcasts.

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Yeah.

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And, the biggest thing that I

want to note out of that is.

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We are meeting people where they

already, like, we're meeting

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people already on the podcast app.

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, you should share , your

podcast on social media.

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That's great, but if we can

meet them, we know that they

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are already podcast listeners.

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They are already on the app.

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They, like, most podcast listeners

are always looking for the next.

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thing to listen to, to be honest,

like we're always like, okay, , what's

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next, and to be honest, from the

perspective of someone who listens

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to podcasts, it's hard to find new

podcasts to listen to sometimes.

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And, and the best way to find them is

by recommendations from people that

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we already know, like, and trust.

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So if somebody is already listening

to the show and then they bring

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on, they're like, this is my.

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My guest, this is someone who's cool.

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Hey, this person.

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And you find out they have a podcast too.

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You're more likely to come

and follow you as well.

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And that's a really good

and good growth strategy.

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And like you said, it's also building

that network in podcasting your

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community and your network is.

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Everything.

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It's like, it means so much.

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It's such a powerful thing, your

community, building a community around

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your existing podcast and building

that network with other podcasters is

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so beneficial to your podcast growth

and so beneficial to even just like

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knowledge, like we share knowledge,,

we share opportunities, we share

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guests, we share things that are all

going to help us, , Grow together.

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So I really, I really like, that

you brought that up, but let's

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meet them where they're at.

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And I think that's really important for

people to understand how they can use

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podcast guesting to grow their audience.

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So what would you say?

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There are a lot of people in my audience

who want to be guests on podcasts.

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And I'm telling you, I have such a love,

hate relationship with podcast from

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the perspective of, well, actually

it goes both ways, but from the

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perspective of someone who teaches.

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Podcasting and how to grow your,

influence and your credibility and

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sell your offers from your podcast.

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And then just having on anybody on

your podcast as guests, that doesn't

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make any sense for your podcast.

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It drives me.

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It drives me insane.

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It drives me insane.

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Like this podcast interview

right now is so purposeful.

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It's valuable.

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You don't do exactly the same

thing that I do, but it's such

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an adjacent thing to what I do.

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My guests are going to get a ton of value.

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You're going to get

value from being on here.

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Like it just, it, it

works very, very well.

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So it's worth doing this.

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It makes sense.

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But what I see a lot of people, even

with guesting, it, it drives me bonkers.

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That they're just like saying yes and

just wanting to be on everyone's podcast.

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Okay.

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And like, I'll see a thread.

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. And these threads drive

me crazy in these groups.

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And they're like, I got a podcast about

such and such who wants to be a guest.

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And then they're just,

and I'm like, how is this?

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How you're vetting your guests?

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Like, how is this?

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But anyway, I digress.

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But I also think there has

to be a smart way for you to.

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Look at it when you're first starting

out and you're like, okay, I want to

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be a podcast guest and, and I am in

this place, , Natalie, just so you

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know, I'm in this place where I'm

wanting to go on like podcast tour.

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I, I really want to lean into

spending majority of my time,

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my marketing being on guests.

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Be a podcast guest and actually

podcasting on my podcast.

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Like if I could just shut everything

out and just do that, that's

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literally what I want to do.

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So as someone who's just sort of

starting out, and I've been on podcasts

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before, but never super intentionally.

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I'm always just asked to

be on people's podcasts.

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And then I'm like, okay, this makes sense.

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I'll be on it.

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But never really super intentionally,

where do you start to find these

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podcasts that make sense for you?

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Where do you start or is it that

you do start just being on being

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in your random Facebook group and

saying, Hey, I talk about this.

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Who's got a podcast and just

going out there and practicing.

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Is that like where you just start or

is there more intentionality that you

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should do when you're starting out?

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So for some people, if you are the kind

of person that feels like you want to

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do podcast guesting, but it feels really

nervous, or, you know, you just, you

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just like, Oh, I don't know about this.

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Yes, I would say just accept any offers

that come your way respond to those

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random threads, get booked on a couple

of podcasts, ideally ones that not huge,

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you know, huge numbers of people listen

to, and just use them as a practice.

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But for someone like you, Angie, no, like

you, you don't need to be wasting your

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for somebody that is ready to get really

intentional about, okay, which podcasts

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are really going to be worth my time and

are going to fulfill all that criteria

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that Angie's just said, like bring value

to the listeners, calling people that

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I actually want to be in my community

around my business, all that good stuff.

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I think the one thing to really be

looking at beyond are the listeners.

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going to be interested in your

topic and likely to become clients,

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like all of that, hopefully

kind of goes without saying.

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I think the one thing to look

at is how much trust is there

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between the listeners and the host.

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Because when there's really high trust

between listeners and the host, what

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happens is that transfer of trust.

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So the listeners really trust the

host, because the host has earned

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their trust right, like over the last

few months or years or however long

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the episode, the sorry the podcast

has been running for listeners.

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Become loyal and they, they learn

to expect a certain level of value

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or funniness or entertainment

or vulnerability or whatever

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it is, whatever the reasons are

they listen to that podcast.

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And they know that the host is

only going to bring on guests

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that match that level of quality.

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So that's the kind of podcast.

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And to me, that's way more important

than topic or ranking or like you just

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said, , you can game ranking, like anyone

can have a good ranking podcast, pretty

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much, you know, you can do a Facebook ads.

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It doesn't necessarily mean that the

quality of the conversations are there.

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So you want to look at trust and they're

the podcasts that you want to be pitching.

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I love that.

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And as you're saying that, I'm

like, I think my people trust me.

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. They do . I'm, I'm one

of your people, Angie.

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I trust you.

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We do, we do

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Trust me, because, , and I love that.

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I think that's a deeper conversation

to even have with, with people who are.

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podcasters and have their own show.

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It's like, how do you create

that trust and that level of,

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and get these loyal people?

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Because then, I think I read a statistic,

, once and podcast stats are wild.

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So like, like you, you have to take

them with a grain of salt always.

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Cause they are, they are wild.

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They vary wildly.

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It's very hard to really nail down, like.

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Really good statistics, but

I read one once like some of

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them when they're really good.

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I'm like, and I want to believe them.

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I just stick with them.

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I'm like, okay, yes, I just go with it.

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, it was that 63 percent of listeners by

the suggestions of their podcast hosts.

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And it that is such a high percentage.

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Of people that will purchase from

you, they'll purchase your thing,

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or they will purchase the thing from

someone else that you're suggesting.

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And it goes back to trust and it goes

back to also the level of connectivity

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that you have on this platform.

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, it's something that just builds this

intimate relationship , with people.

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And, so I love that, but , I want

to say, this also ties into why you

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shouldn't just have any kind of guest

onto your show and stop having just

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random people onto your show because

that diminishes the value and the trust

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that people have in you to deliver the

content that they are most needing, right?

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So that's number one.

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, stop having just random

stuff on your show.

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But the other thing I want to know

is , how can we tell that someone has

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built this trust with their audience?

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So how can I tell that when I'm

looking at this podcast that , they

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have this trust that's built?

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Yeah, so that's trickier but there are

a few kind of indicators that you can

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look at to show you so a few of them are

things like when you open up your podcast

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app, and you're scrolling that podcast.

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What does even the quality of the

Episode titles look like, you know,

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are they just all over the place?

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And all right, one week we

want to talk about this thing.

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Next week, we're talking about

something completely random, like not

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to be down on those podcasts at all.

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There is totally a market for

them, but they're probably not the

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ones that you're wanting to pitch.

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If what you're wanting to do is grow your

business by speaking on those podcasts.

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If you just want to go and have an

amazing conversation, or if what

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you're sharing is more kind of personal

experience and telling your story, Sure.

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Like those might be brilliant for you,

but when you're wanting to grow your

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business or grow your own podcast by

speaking on other people's podcasts,

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I'd be looking for a really clear.

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Like golden thread kind of

through line of those episodes.

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So you can just like, Angie, your podcast

is a brilliant example of this, right?

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It's called podcast that pays.

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That is so obvious what it is,

hopefully that you're talking about.

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And then even if you don't listen

to a single one of your episodes, if

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you just scroll through every single

episode is so clearly thought about.

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Here's something, you know, a

question you're likely to have if

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you're starting a podcast, here's

to how to grow your podcast.

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Here's how to get paid from your podcast.

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That's what you're looking for

when, when you're scrolling.

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And then I always suggest that people

listen to at least one or two episodes.

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And if you don't want to listen to the

entire episode, just listen, at least to

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the beginning and the end of the episodes

and just get a sense of things like.

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What's the rapport like between

the host and the guest, you know,

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they don't have to be best friends.

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They don't have to know each other really

well, but you don't want it to sound

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really awkward because then it kind of

suggests that maybe the host has got this

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really chaotic process behind the scenes.

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Maybe the guest has no idea.

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What, what's going on or what

they're going to be asked.

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That's not what you want for your

experience so have a bit of a listen.

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And then another way that you can

really see the likelihood of trust

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between the listeners and the host is

have a bit of a research of the host

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:

like have a look at on social media.

370

:

Does there seem to be a

community around their business

371

:

or are they just broadcasting?

372

:

Um, do they have some kind of group

or presence that you can check out?

373

:

You know, we're kind of moving out of the

days of big Facebook groups, but there are

374

:

still people that like Angie, you've got.

375

:

Super engaged Facebook group around

your business or school is a new kind

376

:

of big platform that people are using

for groups, that kind of research.

377

:

And it doesn't need to take forever.

378

:

Like you could do all this research that

I've just said in what, like 15 minutes,

379

:

just really to get a sense of who the host

is and what kind of business they've got

380

:

and how much their audience trusts them.

381

:

If it's like tick, tick, tick, go for it.

382

:

Yeah.

383

:

This is like.

384

:

Podcasting 101 people.

385

:

, this is what people are looking for

when they're coming to your podcast

386

:

to determine whether they want to

come on your show and, . And I,

387

:

I love that you said, when we're

looking through this person's podcast,

388

:

just glancing and seeing, what

their episodes are, if it's like a

389

:

consistent topic, , is it organized?

390

:

Is it together?

391

:

And, the thing that I wrote down from

that is consistency builds trust.

392

:

It does.

393

:

It does.

394

:

I'd love it to not be true, but it's true.

395

:

It builds trust.

396

:

So if you want to build trust with

your audience and you want to attract

397

:

people that want to be guests and your

podcast, like consistency builds trust,

398

:

consistency in your messaging goes back

to what you are, , talking about a

399

:

messaging and, it will even spill into

selling your offers and things like that.

400

:

Consistency builds trust

on and off podcasts.

401

:

, So I really love that point,

that consistency builds trust.

402

:

And the other thing is, y'all, please

go and listen to these podcasts

403

:

that you're trying to be guests on.

404

:

, I know that this happens so

much because I see it happening,

405

:

where it's like, no clue.

406

:

Of what they're walking into of what the

podcast, like none of those things that

407

:

you've said, like people are not doing

any of this recon or any of this research.

408

:

Like they are just

hopping on these podcasts.

409

:

And I mean, , , I'm going to be honest.

410

:

Like when we were talking, I was like,

I can't go in a podcast if I ain't got a

411

:

podcast, Mike, cause I'm a podcast person.

412

:

So my brand, I can't go hop on

with somebody who's out here.

413

:

That sounds like they're in the

bathroom recording a podcast.

414

:

Like I can't do that for my brand.

415

:

Like, I'm not going to do that.

416

:

So I think that it just depends

again, back to your goals and those

417

:

kinds of things, but like what you,

what you're, what you're wanting to

418

:

accomplish, but you do need to listen.

419

:

And something I think when you were

saying that too, is how, how the host.

420

:

talks to their people.

421

:

I think you can tell in there

what kind of rapport they have.

422

:

Like I talk to my people like I know

them and they, I do, and they know me.

423

:

And we're like, we BFFs.

424

:

Like, but there are, you can

tell if there's that disconnect.

425

:

So I think that's really

important and just something for.

426

:

You , to look out for and you guys listen

for you to be able , to listen to,,

427

:

to determine that, that trust factor.

428

:

So that consistency is, is

there that rapport there?

429

:

And the other piece was the community that

they have, like building that community

430

:

around your podcast is important and being

able to see that someone else has that

431

:

community is, I think a great indicator.

432

:

So, I love that you said all that.

433

:

And I just wanted to kind

of recap that for people.

434

:

How do you, as a business person, you said

something earlier about the difference

435

:

between if you're trying to Be on a

podcast to grow your business versus

436

:

you're on there to just tell your story.

437

:

And it's more personal.

438

:

My question is, and I feel like this

is something that you help people do

439

:

and probably help do it within, , the

speakeasy, which , we'll talk about

440

:

your program in a little bit, but if

I am, because I think that story is

441

:

so compelling and being able to tell

your story, even as a business owner.

442

:

if I'm wanting to be on podcasts and I'm

wanting to show up and be this compelling

443

:

guest for this person, , shouldn't I

be pulling together a story that's kind

444

:

of a combination of Personal business.

445

:

, how do I begin to craft this?

446

:

If I'm going to pitch to you and

say, I'm coming on your podcast,

447

:

but like, what's my angle?

448

:

, don't you need to have sort of an angle?

449

:

So I'm this podcaster.

450

:

I, part of mine could be, I don't know.

451

:

I like, we could just use

me for an example, Natalie.

452

:

Like I started off.

453

:

The reason why I do

podcasting is because I.

454

:

I started a podcast as a life

coach, and that was the first

455

:

thing I did in my business.

456

:

That was the first marketing thing I

did in my business, which is like so

457

:

backwards from what everybody teaches.

458

:

And I got my first client from my podcast.

459

:

I started getting DMs like crazy of

people who listened to my podcast and

460

:

they were so impacted and they were like,

Oh my God, I made this . Insert big

461

:

life choice because I listened to you,

you've changed my life in this way.

462

:

And I was just , I'm getting chills

because , I felt so much pride in that.

463

:

And so I was making an impact and

all I was doing was just showing up.

464

:

I was talking to my car.

465

:

My sound was.

466

:

I was just showing up , and speaking

from my heart and these people

467

:

were being impacted and I was like.

468

:

Wait a minute.

469

:

Wait a minute.

470

:

This is really impactful.

471

:

This is really impactful platform.

472

:

And I looked around at all the

people in my audience and all the

473

:

people around me on my social media.

474

:

And I'm like, there's some

brilliant people here.

475

:

I, they need podcasts so that they

can get their brilliance out into

476

:

the world and they can make impact.

477

:

They got much more of an

impact I can make if I'm.

478

:

Helping these people make an impact like

I, what the ripple effect that I will

479

:

have, I can create even more impact.

480

:

So that's my sort of origin story

of how I switched from being a life

481

:

coach to talking about, I didn't

wake up and wanted to do podcast

482

:

editing or , it's bigger than that.

483

:

So that's kind of my story.

484

:

So how would I.

485

:

Take that and start to position

myself as this, like, here's my

486

:

story, but it ties into business.

487

:

, give me your thoughts , on that , and

don't you need to kind of do that?

488

:

Right.

489

:

Yeah, you do.

490

:

All right.

491

:

So what we're going to do, Angie,

is we're going to talk about all the

492

:

reasons your origin story is flawless.

493

:

It's such a fucking good example.

494

:

And let me pull out why because I'm

sure people listening are like, yeah.

495

:

Yeah.

496

:

Yeah.

497

:

Oh my god.

498

:

That sounds so good.

499

:

Let me tell you why it's so good.

500

:

So a few different things

that you've done there.

501

:

All right.

502

:

One of them is you, you

led with your mission.

503

:

Right.

504

:

So inside the speakeasy, I

call it manifesto messaging.

505

:

And it's that sense of like leading

with your mission, bringing people

506

:

behind you, inviting them in

to join in with your manifesto.

507

:

Your manifesto, Angie was so clear

that everyone else out there is

508

:

saying, Oh no, don't start a podcast

for the first thing, and you're out

509

:

there changing lives from day one.

510

:

Like that is that's such a powerful.

511

:

Call to action in the true,

mission sense of call to action.

512

:

I don't mean buy my thing,

call to action that we all use.

513

:

And it also shows such a strong

point of view that you are, you're

514

:

saying something different to what

the industry in general is saying.

515

:

Normally people say, wait

till you're super experienced.

516

:

Wait until you've got a signature

offer, da, da, da, da, da.

517

:

And then start your podcast.

518

:

You're like, no, like this is how

we can use this marketing channel.

519

:

So that's one thing you did amazingly

well was you led with mission.

520

:

Another thing you did really well was

you used what I call moments, which

521

:

are these little like micro stories

or micro examples within the bigger

522

:

story to make it so specific to you.

523

:

So.

524

:

I don't know if you think of like

a different kind of origin story,

525

:

you know, so often we hear this.

526

:

Oh, I was working in

corporate and I got burnt out.

527

:

So I started my business and now I do.

528

:

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

529

:

Like it's a, it's a story.

530

:

So many of us have got, and it is

so valid, but it falls a little bit

531

:

flat because we've heard so many

versions of that same story before.

532

:

Whereas imagine if instead of

saying it like that, you said.

533

:

Oh my God.

534

:

So there was this moment

I walked into work.

535

:

It was a Monday morning.

536

:

I hadn't even had my morning coffee.

537

:

Um, Matt from accounts was like,

Natalie, I need to talk to you.

538

:

And in that moment I was like,

no, something needs to change.

539

:

And that's when my business was bought.

540

:

They tell the same story, right?

541

:

Yeah, they are so different to listen to.

542

:

And it's because of the specificity

and I call them moments.

543

:

And Angie you had moments where you talked

about getting DMS from your women, and

544

:

even the way you said, and they told me

they were insert big life choice here.

545

:

Yeah, it's funny, it's relatable.

546

:

Yeah.

547

:

You're just a brilliant storyteller.

548

:

And there are two other things that

you did to make that a really, not

549

:

just an enjoyable story to listen

to, but a story that builds your

550

:

credibility, that shares something

about your point of view, and that

551

:

really invites trust from the listener.

552

:

They're the kind of origin

stories that we want.

553

:

I love that.

554

:

And thank you for that.

555

:

And I can add on to that.

556

:

The moment when it's super dramatic,

, there was a moment when you said that

557

:

I was like, Oh, when I was working in

corporate, when I was working in New

558

:

York city, and I was had this life

that was quote unquote successful.

559

:

And I was making over six figures

and everybody was so proud of me.

560

:

And I was just not into it.

561

:

And one day I was riding

the train to my job.

562

:

And I quit my job on the,

, platform, subway platform in

563

:

New York City, in Times Square.

564

:

Okay.

565

:

How about that for a moment?

566

:

That's another moment.

567

:

Mic drop.

568

:

That's another moment.

569

:

And then I called my sister in law

and was like, Hey, I just quit my job.

570

:

I have no plan.

571

:

Meet me at Grand Central Station.

572

:

And let's have drinks.

573

:

I need lots of drinks.

574

:

And so that's, that's how my next

evolution of my life was, you know,

575

:

bored when I was like, this is just crap.

576

:

I don't want to do this.

577

:

But anyway, I love that.

578

:

And I love that , you mentioned Being

a good storyteller because that also

579

:

builds trust it gets people to get to

know you and feel more connected to you.

580

:

And I think that's really important when

you're Guesting and also when you are

581

:

like having your own podcast, so someone

asked me this question Not too long ago

582

:

in My DMS, I believe, and it was around

because being a good storyteller, for

583

:

me, a lot of the stuff comes natural.

584

:

I will just be honest.

585

:

You guys like I, it doesn't

come natural for everybody.

586

:

It really, really doesn't.

587

:

And that was something

that I had to learn.

588

:

In what I do is that podcasting

and podcast skills don't come

589

:

natural to a lot of people.

590

:

Like being able to like create

an episode that is engaging and

591

:

that has a point and that serves a

purpose and that lands the plane.

592

:

Like that's my new like thing,

land the damn plane people.

593

:

What is the damn point?

594

:

And interviewing people is a skill

and you get, you, you hone it

595

:

and you have to get better at it.

596

:

So someone asked me about, um,

and just back up real quick, I'm

597

:

very open and can be very open.

598

:

And , I just don't care

about people's opinions.

599

:

in a way that will throw me off track

from being able to say what I want to say.

600

:

So I do care.

601

:

There's a little care.

602

:

I'm not gonna say I don't care at all, but

it doesn't, not enough to hinder me from

603

:

being my authentic, who I am raw self.

604

:

And there are people who really do

struggle with That part with the

605

:

being really authentic , and real

and being able to share their story.

606

:

And I had someone ask me, how do

you share something really personal?

607

:

How do you share this personal thing?

608

:

, how do you get over this hump when

maybe it could bring harm to others?

609

:

Who are maybe there's others who are part

of your story that you don't necessarily

610

:

want to talk about and maybe that's

something that I think it gets people

611

:

stuck sometimes in their messaging

and in their storytelling because they

612

:

think that they're scared to talk about

it or it's something maybe they have

613

:

something really powerful to say but It

involves other people or they're worried

614

:

about what other people would think.

615

:

And you probably run into this

too, as you're helping people craft

616

:

their story and their messaging.

617

:

So what would you say to someone who's

really struggling with this idea of

618

:

how authentic, how much story, how do

I create this compelling story, maybe

619

:

without stepping on toes or should I just.

620

:

Not worry about it.

621

:

Should I say, fuck it?

622

:

What would you say to someone who's in

this place of, I want to be authentic.

623

:

I want to be a better storyteller, but

I feel like I don't know , how much to

624

:

tell what to include, like that sort of

thing, or it's kind of in that place of

625

:

being a little bit scared or apprehensive.

626

:

Yeah.

627

:

So we coach on this all

the time in this week.

628

:

And the biggest thing that I would

say is have a sense of what you

629

:

want to share and what you don't

want to share before you hit record.

630

:

So if you're like Angie, and you're

like, fuck it, I'll just share what comes

631

:

up in the moment, and I'm not going to

have a massive vulnerability hangover.

632

:

I'm all good.

633

:

Then.

634

:

Do that.

635

:

Don't over prepare and kind of make it

sound a bit more forced than it needs to.

636

:

But if you're somebody like

Angie's just been describing

637

:

that either is worried about not

sharing enough or sharing too much.

638

:

Your secret weapon is preparing.

639

:

Before the interviews, don't use the

interview where you're recording and

640

:

where, so where all of the brilliant

things about podcast guesting, like

641

:

it's evergreen and you want to record

once and people can find you forever.

642

:

Don't use those things against yourself.

643

:

Don't share something that

is now on the internet.

644

:

And you're like, Oh, I really

wish I hadn't said that.

645

:

I mean, if you, if that really happens,

you can ask the host to edit it out.

646

:

. The best thing to do is have a real sense

of what details do you want to share.

647

:

So in that example, which details are

yours to share and which details maybe

648

:

other people's to share or not share.

649

:

And then you can craft the story

around what you do want to share.

650

:

And there's so much that you can

say in a story, leaving pretty big

651

:

gaps, but doing it in a way that

invites curiosity from the listener.

652

:

And you don't have to

fill those gaps for them.

653

:

you don't feel like you have to

say absolutely everything , to

654

:

make it a great story.

655

:

A bit of suspense can be a brilliant

element to have in stories as well.

656

:

. And I like that.

657

:

, here's your permission slip you get

to decide what you want to divulge and

658

:

how open about something you want to be

just because you see Angie over here,

659

:

just Balls to the wall, doesn't care,

like saying everything she wants to

660

:

say, like, it doesn't have to be you.

661

:

You don't have to have my same personality

to be successful at crafting your story.

662

:

You don't have to have to be open and

tell every single detail of your life.

663

:

And people would be, you would be

shocked at how private I am, even

664

:

though I seem so public, like people

would be really shocked at that.

665

:

At how, what I share is things that are

easy for me to share, but there are a

666

:

lot of things that I keep for myself and

there are a lot of ways that I am still

667

:

a very private person, even though I show

up very authentic and raw and there are

668

:

a lot of things that I keep for myself.

669

:

And you would be, you would be, people

would be surprised because I seem

670

:

just so extroverted and like, yeah,

here, whatever I talk about, whatever.

671

:

But I there, I am actually.

672

:

A much more private person and,

and I'm much, I, I can be a shy

673

:

person too, which is like, blues.

674

:

So hard to believe.

675

:

I can be, I'm telling you.

676

:

And that's actually, I

used to be really shy.

677

:

And in 10th grade, 10th grade,

I decided, I made a decision.

678

:

I was like, you know what?

679

:

I'm not going to be shy anymore.

680

:

Like forget it.

681

:

And I was at a football game and there

was these guys who were sitting in

682

:

front of me and this was like my

pivotal, I'm not shy anymore moment.

683

:

And there was these guys sitting

in front of me and one of the

684

:

guys kept like rubbing his head.

685

:

Like he had a headache.

686

:

I don't know why this had to be

my unshy moment, but I offered

687

:

the guy to rub his head for him.

688

:

A random stranger now, granted,

he was a very cute guy.

689

:

Okay.

690

:

There was like, it was a little

more motivation in there just

691

:

than a random guy, cute guy.

692

:

And he was like, his head was hurting

and I was like, Hey, did your head hurt?

693

:

You want me to rub it for you?

694

:

And I don't know why that was my

moment, but like that was my moment.

695

:

And then After that, it was, it was over.

696

:

I was like, I got to get over this hump.

697

:

No more shy Angie.

698

:

And so from then on, I've been

like, I went really in the opposite

699

:

direction, but there are still little

moments where I can be, I can be shy.

700

:

And so it's just, it's interesting,

but we've mentioned a couple

701

:

times here about the speakeasy.

702

:

And I really want , to

talk about, your program.

703

:

And not just because it's like

about to open cart, because

704

:

obviously this will be evergreen.

705

:

And this will be here, but I, I just

really, what you teach and how you

706

:

teach podcast guesting is, it just

feels like such a holistic thing

707

:

and such something that you can

take beyond just Podcast guesting.

708

:

Like, these are lessons that you

can bring to your own podcast.

709

:

These are lessons that you can

weave into your messaging in general

710

:

and your business and everything.

711

:

People are always shocked when they

do calls with me and it's like I'm

712

:

digging into their messaging like

when we're doing their podcast.

713

:

Like it could because you have to, right?

714

:

Like, that's a big part of it is

storytelling and your messaging on

715

:

your own podcast and being on others.

716

:

And so I really love the

way that you teach this.

717

:

So I, I want to talk more about

the speakeasy and what, what it is

718

:

and why you, I guess, first I want

to ask, what made you create this?

719

:

Like, why did you create

this, this program?

720

:

What need did you see?

721

:

Yeah, so I think part of this is

from my own life that before I

722

:

started my business, I was director

of partnerships for a nonprofit.

723

:

And that was all about influencing.

724

:

So I was using messaging and speaking,

I was doing public speaking, I was doing

725

:

private meetings with influential people

trying to influence policy change.

726

:

And I just love those skills like they,

I can see so many times in my own life

727

:

and other people's lives where having

the ability to advocate for yourself

728

:

and influence somebody and speak up

for yourself and be articulate and

729

:

encourage people to listen to you and

take notice of what you're saying.

730

:

They're just really fucking good

life skills to have in business.

731

:

They're essential, but even, I've

got personal stories that I could

732

:

tell around where Having those

skills have changed my life.

733

:

And I used to be a social worker.

734

:

I've seen, I've seen those skills change

women's life when they leave a violent

735

:

partner or kids life when you know

when they can advocate for themselves

736

:

around what they want in terms of

their care, all that kind of stuff.

737

:

So that's the kind of

background that I brought to it.

738

:

And then when I started my business.

739

:

Visibility coaching and I'm

laughing because I didn't really

740

:

know what I meant by that.

741

:

And so no one else did.

742

:

So like, you can see how that went, right.

743

:

But what I meant was like

partnerships, development and

744

:

messaging, that kind of stuff.

745

:

And I just started to see this.

746

:

Pattern with my clients where

they were like, all I want

747

:

to do is speak on podcasts.

748

:

Can we do that?

749

:

And I was like, yeah, of

course we can do that.

750

:

I know how to pitch.

751

:

I know how to develop a persuasive

message, all that kind of stuff.

752

:

So I started by doing VIP days

and then I got asked, can you

753

:

make this into a group program?

754

:

And so it used to be called the pod squad.

755

:

It was a pop up that I

did as the pod squad.

756

:

And then it's just grown and evolved.

757

:

Now it's the speakeasy and now it's

serving this community of amazing

758

:

entrepreneurs that are growing their

business and speaking on podcasts

759

:

and sharing their point of view and

shaping this wild west of online

760

:

business that we all work in.

761

:

And I just love it.

762

:

I really, really love it.

763

:

So that's why That's why it's continued.

764

:

And you can see the growth in when,

when people dial in their messaging

765

:

for podcast guesting, it doesn't

just stop at podcast guesting.

766

:

Like you'll see this with

your podcast as well.

767

:

Like sure their podcast is

shit hot, but then it ripples

768

:

through their whole business.

769

:

And I love that.

770

:

I love seeing that, that ripple

effect through how people

771

:

show up and their confidence.

772

:

And, and of course, going

on a podcast tour like that.

773

:

Yeah.

774

:

Yeah, yeah, I completely agree.

775

:

People are always shocked.

776

:

Like I said, when they work with

me, because this is something that

777

:

ripples through your business, that

ripples through your messaging.

778

:

And I do talk also a lot about that

mission based marketing and . How to

779

:

get people hooked into your mission

because , everybody loves a good

780

:

mission to sink their teeth into that

they can come along with you for the

781

:

ride with and , people love that.

782

:

So tell us more about, , why so

now we know, , where the speakeasy

783

:

came from, but , who is this for?

784

:

And, and what are some of the things

that you work on inside of the program?

785

:

Yeah, so it's for

changemaker entrepreneurs.

786

:

Is the way that I say it.

787

:

And by that, I mean, entrepreneurs

with a mission, um, everyone

788

:

inside the speakeasy.

789

:

Most people are coaches or

service based providers.

790

:

We've got all sorts of people in there.

791

:

Copywriters, Facebook ads,

strategists, designers, I know

792

:

all sorts of people in there.

793

:

But what unites everybody is And most of

them don't want to be on social media.

794

:

I don't want to rely on social media.

795

:

So then you need to find

another way of finding people.

796

:

They are people who want to talk

about something that matters to

797

:

them, who want to share nuance,

who want to be in conversation.

798

:

They don't like that kind of broadcast y

feeling that you get from social media.

799

:

So that's who's in there.

800

:

And then, I mean, it's set up like

a pretty traditional group program

801

:

that you'd see on the online streets.

802

:

It's, you know, as soon as you

join, you get access to the online

803

:

portal and the curriculum inside

the portal takes you through every

804

:

single step from, yeah, sure.

805

:

I want to speak on podcasts.

806

:

I have no idea what I'm doing.

807

:

To having your messaging sorted,

knowing exactly how to pitch, knowing

808

:

how to find aligned podcasts, knowing

what it is about you specifically

809

:

that makes a brilliant guest.

810

:

And then ultimately going

on your podcast tour.

811

:

So there's live coaching.

812

:

There's a community space.

813

:

It just gives you everything

you need to grow your business.

814

:

Right.

815

:

I love it.

816

:

And of course , it's something that,

, I've never personally gone through it.

817

:

I'm thinking about it just so you know,

I need to come and get into this thing.

818

:

I need to come and get into this

speakeasy just because, , , like I

819

:

said, I'm going on a podcast tour.

820

:

I, this, even just this chat, Natalie,

I've got notes and just like note to

821

:

all of you podcast hosts out here who are

doing interviews, write notes , as you're

822

:

interviewing and refer back to your notes.

823

:

It's going to help you create a

better episode so that you can

824

:

say, Oh, you just said X, Y, Z.

825

:

Let's talk deeper on that.

826

:

A lot of people don't do that.

827

:

So just give me a note.

828

:

I always have a ton of notes, but in this,

it just, even just talking to you, I've

829

:

been able to, in my mind, figure out.

830

:

I think I know what I'm going

to pitch to people already.

831

:

I love that.

832

:

I think I know what my, I

think I know what my hook is.

833

:

I think I know what my signature talk is.

834

:

And how to begin to refine

that, to pitch that to people.

835

:

And I could see it working for lots

of people's audiences that are far and

836

:

wide beyond, , beyond even business,

cause it's about how to bring your

837

:

brilliance, your impact, , and I, of

course, I talk about it through using

838

:

podcasting, but it's deeper than that.

839

:

Which is what I love that you

do and what you, what you teach.

840

:

So if you guys are listening and

you are thinking about, you know,

841

:

working with Natalie and you want to

dip your toes into podcast guesting

842

:

before you do your podcast or as

using it as a growth strategy.

843

:

I think , this is such a great offer and a

great way to, , to get yourself out there.

844

:

And I just believe in, I

believe in your mission.

845

:

I believe in how you teach this.

846

:

And.

847

:

It to me, it's better than, and yes,

you, I know you help with the pitches,

848

:

but it's better than just hiring someone

who's just pitching you, who's not helping

849

:

you perfect and craft this and really

understand how to pull this out of you.

850

:

And so I would just, I think

that it's such a benefit for

851

:

all areas of your business.

852

:

Yeah.

853

:

And I think there's so much value

in developing your own messaging

854

:

and not outsourcing it in the same

way that I think you should only

855

:

ever hire a copywriter once you've

already done the work to have your

856

:

message, know what your voice is.

857

:

Otherwise you're just giving over the

power to somebody else to kind of design,

858

:

how people experience your business.

859

:

And I think Taking the time to

be supported, to develop your own

860

:

messaging for starting your own

podcast or guesting on podcasts is

861

:

going to ripple through your business.

862

:

And you're going to end up with something

that is more you and more powerful

863

:

than anyone else could create for you.

864

:

Yeah.

865

:

I, I 100 percent agree with that.

866

:

So tell us, Natalie, we're so happy.

867

:

I'm so appreciative that you decided

to do this on the, on a whim with me,

868

:

because that's just how I operate.

869

:

We finally got it going, but

tell everyone, how can we.

870

:

Find you.

871

:

How can we find information

on the speakeasy?

872

:

Obviously, I will put

that into the show notes.

873

:

, but tell us how we can,

connect with you further.

874

:

Yeah, sure.

875

:

So my website is nataliecousa.

876

:

com.

877

:

Cousa is K O U S S A.

878

:

The speakeasy is there of course, but if

you are joining, so if it's open when you

879

:

listen to this episode or if it's, if it's

closed, you can just join the wait list.

880

:

, use the link in the show notes

because Angie is a referral

881

:

partner for the speakeasy.

882

:

So I would love you to use Angie's link.

883

:

, but yeah, nataliecousa.

884

:

com all the show notes is.

885

:

And I did talk about that.

886

:

I think I'm going to put a little, I

might put like a bonus for joining.

887

:

So you get something from me as well

if you join, ,, through my link.

888

:

So check out the, , link in

the show notes, you guys.

889

:

And thank you so much,

Natalie, for being here.

890

:

I loved catching up with you

and sharing your, sharing your

891

:

brilliance with the audience.

892

:

I appreciate it so much.

893

:

Thanks, Angie.

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