Bishop Julius C. Trimble is the Resident Bishop of the Indiana Area of the United Methodist Church.

Bishop Trimble has the personal mission to encourage all people with the love of Jesus Christ to rise to their highest potential. It is his commitment to his personal mission that led Bishop Trimble to create the “To Be Encouraged” Podcast along with co-host Rev.Dr. Brad Miller.

Bishop Trimble says, “I am compelled by Jesus to share with you an encouraging word or two about Jesus, theology, the Bible, the pandemic, the environment, racism, voting rights, human sexuality, and the state of the United Methodist Church.”

To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble is to be published weekly and is available at www.tobeencouraged.com and all the podcast directories.

https://www.inumc.org/bishop/office-of-the-bishop/

Episode 098 is the recording of Bishop Trimble live teaching on the book "Multiplying Love A Vision of United Methodist Life Together" By Dr. Paul W. Chilcote. This podcast was recorded live on March 17, 2024 and is the third of a four part Lenten Book study.

https://www.cokesbury.com/Multiplying-Love

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In this uplifting episode of the "Multiplying Love" Lenten book study, Bishop Julius C. Trimble leads an engaging discussion on Chapters 5 and 6 of Paul Chilcote's book "Multiplying Love: A Methodist Renewal for Discipleship, Mission, and Community."

The conversation kicks off with a powerful reading from Colossians 3:11-15, setting the tone for exploring what it truly means to be a movement of inclusive love and grace as the church. Participants share profound insights on rediscovering the church as a loving, spirit-led movement rather than just an organized religion focused on doctrine and structure.

Drawing from sobering statistics, the group wrestles with the hard truth that many unchurched Americans view Christianity today as more about organized religion than loving God and neighbor. This sparks a poignant dialogue on how the church can better embody and convey the generous, benevolent love of God.

In a moving moment, Rev. Dr. Michael Cartwright offers a heartfelt confession, reflecting on his early ministry years and the need to prioritize "being with" over just "doing for." His vulnerability reminds us all of the transformative power of abiding in Christ's love through authentic relationships.

The discussion then turns to John 15:4-10, the powerful vine and branches analogy, leading to insights on the church's calling to be a community that radiates God's inclusive love and grace to the world. Echoing Wesley's heart, there is a resounding call to be with people where they are, especially those on the margins, rather than expecting them to come to us.

Throughout, Bishop Trimble masterfully weaves in theology, personal stories, and thought-provoking questions that both challenge and inspire. The necessity of leading with humility, kindness, and a spirit of confession is emphasized as crucial for the church to truly multiply love.

By the end, it's clear this is no ordinary book study. It's a Spirit-filled rallying cry for the people called Methodists to reclaim their roots as a Christ-centered movement of unrelenting grace poured out through loving relationships and compassionate presence in the world.

Whether you're a lifelong Methodist or simply seeking to know God's love more deeply, this rich discussion will stir your heart to embrace the high calling of abiding in Christ so you can bear lasting fruit as His sent ones multiplying love.

A little more time to bounce back.

I hope that everyone is doing well on this,

Sunday, wearing my green for those whose

heritage is that and celebrating that.

I was at a church early this morning, and they reminded me

that I needed to come in my green. So there we

go. I was very mindful of that, and I'm glad that they

reminded me because that would have not been on my radar at all. So

there's Bishop. Wonderful.

Greetings, beloved. As we journey the Lent

Lenten season together, may the lord be with

you and also

with

Methodist

that are joining. We have, those that are

joining now. I was just making them aware we had a

grand celebration for you and your upcoming

victory lap as you pivot with passion, but yet you're still

on the payroll now.

I've got a few more, places to preach and,

worship and and gather on the districts and looking

forward to a joyous annual conference. I don't know if

people know that any anybody and everybody who's United Methodist can

come to annual conference. We often think of it as only for

members of the lay members and clergy members,

and but, really, others can come. The visitors can come

and they'll come. And it's gonna be it's Saint Luke's in a local

church, which we really think will be, fun,

because we're already being a worship setting, and, they've got a

huge parking lot that we're gonna have outdoor activity. So,

hopefully, some of you probably come in anyway, but

you're all welcome to come for a day or longer.

June 6th through 8th, just in case people needed those dates. Excuse

me. June 5th through 8th, just in case people needed those dates.

And the registration is supposed to open here after Easter because we

need to get to the resurrection.

So, bishop, may I offer a word of prayer as we

begin and, so that we're mindful of the Trimble? Because, you know,

we're not here long. Yes. Let let let's let's

join. Go ahead as others are joining.

Awesome. Will you pray with me? Good

gracious and loving god, thank you. Thank you for the beauty of

today. Thank you for the opportunity to celebrate.

Thank you for the connection via technology

that binds us together as we continue to explore what it

means to multiply multiply love in and throughout the

United Methodist Church in Indiana and beyond. We give you thanks

for our bishop for his participation and

leading and leadership, not only of our conference, but at this,

book study. And so, lord, we say speak

or you are lit we are listening

in Christ's name. Amen. Amen. One of

the invitations that was extended and if anyone is on for

the first time, we want we want you to

join us as we continue this commitment. On page

42 is a prayer, that I've invited

those of us who are joining together on this Lenten study to pray,

together. If you have your books and turn to page 42, doctor

Fulbright has opened us with prayer, but I wanna use this more as a

litany for a time of discussion.

And I I did have a chance to, talk with doctor Fulbright

before. We're gonna really Encouraged you to

engage in, conversation for this session

as we look at chapter 56. Am I right? 56.

Chapter 5 really about just the notion of renewal as

well. So on page 42,

new every morning is your love, great god of light, and all day

long, you are working for good in the world. Stir

up in us desire to serve you, to live

peacefully with our neighbors, and to to devote

each day to your son, our savior, Jesus Christ,

the lord. Amen.

Paul Chilcote, unlike some Wesleyan

theologians, is just as much a fan of Charles

Wesley as he is John Wesley. And so

in his writings, particularly this book,

you will see the reference to the hymns, some of the

hymns that that are in our hymn book, and the emphasis

that our theology and the way in which we really live out

being Methodist in in in in our day

to day lives includes both the Bible, but also,

our hymns. Some said say that our theology of what we believe

is best expressed through our hymns, And,

I know Tracy is a is a is a trained music

music person, so she knows music history and and is a practitioner

and, oh, Lord Glenn Gibson as well. And I know some of you

others may also know this better than your bishop does. So,

that's what I I like about Chilco's writing because I know he's just

as much a fan of Charles as he is John C, and sometimes Charles gets

kind of the short script, so to speak. The other thing

is that this book was written we said this in a very

in response to a book written in 2022 entitled Multiply

Methodist. And I know one of the authors of that

book, Bishop Lowry, because we were both consecrated bishop

in the same year and had spent time in our,

in our conferences. But we are not taking

this, opportunity for the Lenten study to reflect on

this affiliation or or responding to

those who may who may have chosen Bishop affiliation or who who may

still be desiring after general conference for more of that.

What we're focusing on is the invitation

to multiply love. And what does that mean for the current, and I like

to say for the vision, which is the subtitle of the book, The Vision of

United Methodist Life Together. So I hope our conversation

really, can really can take further

shape around how you feel about that. What is the vision

for United Methodist going forward from

your from your local church standpoint, from you as a

leader? And maybe if you're like me, I'm a lifelong

Methodist. Some some a lot of people are on conference or

not. We we come from many different places. But

what does it mean for us to to to really,

cast and embrace a vision of United Methodist life together?

The other thing is that I'm gonna repeat every time the the,

what I think one is the most important pieces they read. What if the United

Methodist Church were known for being the most loving

church in the United States. I'm not saying that, but I'm not reading it in

front of me now, but, I think that's that's the essence of it.

Here it is. It's in the chat. What if the United Methodist Church if

if that were we were really known for that, then this doesn't require us

knocking any other denominations or even, for that matter, any other

faith expression, but actually living out,

at least in part, how John Wesley

describe the character of a Methodist and how we we are embracing

for our annual conference this year, the theme cultivating

joy. So I really want us to connect

with that. I'm gonna stop talking in just a minute, but I wanna turn to

page 55, chapter 5,

and, begin with the

reading of Colossians 3. If you have your books turned there, if you you're

doing it you have an electronic, version,

or if you have your Trimble, Colossians, the New

Testament, chapter 3 verse 11 through.

And chapter 5 is is the opportunity before

us, and and

this is an opportunity for us to to hear this. In this image,

there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised,

barbarian, Scythian, slave, nor

free, but Christ is all things and in all people.

Therefore, as god's choice, holy and

love, put on compassion, kindness,

humility, gentleness, and patience. Be

tolerant with each other, and if someone has

a complaint against anyone, forgive each other

as the lord forgave you. So also forgive

each other.

On page 56, writes, we don't need to make

renewal happen. That's god's work.

But god needs willing partners to tend the flame of the

spirit's work. Do you want to be one

of those partners? So let me stop

there and, ask if there's reflection on the

Colossians text or your reading in chapter

5, what reflections do you have there? Of

course, there's quite a bit in there. And, doctor Fulbright, I don't know if you

had a follow-up prompting question that we might wanna

engage in.

So Bishop has asked the question, friends, based on the reading

of Colossians 311 through 15 or your reading

of chapter 5 in its body, what

ahas, ouchies, or curiosities do you bring to the

conversation today? There's a note of our Zoom etiquette. You can

raise your digital hand, wave your physical hand, or you could put

your comments in the chat. This is a conversation

today, friends. So, it is hard to be in conversation

first with someone, plural that are not in conversation with

you. So Bishop has asked the question based on the Colossians

text in your reading and or your reading of chapter 5,

what curiosities, ahas, ouches do you bring to the

conversation? I do have some promptings, but I'll

wait.

Welcome welcome, friends. Doctor

Michael Cartwright, are you unmuting to share, or are you unmuted by

accident? I do have something to

share. Wonderful. I

I'm a longtime admirer of, Paul Chilcot.

He was a graduate student when I was a seminarian,

in the late seventies, early eighties, and,

I've read his many books with with great appreciation. And and

this, point that he's making

about renewable being, god's work and

us willing partners is a important Wesleyan

thread and one that that Paul makes in all of his books,

but I I think it's it's a place where we've had a lot of

Trimble in the church. If if you

start from the premise that we've gotta get it right

and then we can renew the church, we don't

ever get there. It's, I

I think Paul is is right that it's the gift of God

that makes renewal possible, and, then we join in

God's work. But over and over again, we,

fuss and feud in the United Methodist Church over

what it means for us to get it right, and we just never get

there. C

comments? Tracy, I think you had your hand up.

Yeah. A part of this chapter that really, struck

me was, where he was referencing the Lifeways

survey and talked about the fact that 79%

of unchurched Americans think Christianity today in America is about

organized religion rather than about loving

god and loving people. 86%

believe they can have a good relationship with god without being involved in

church. And so I think even that last

one can have a good relationship with god.

I I think that, you know, the message of

this book reminds us that it's about relationship.

Our relationship with God and our relationship with one another. What ought to be a

relationship characterized by love? And, in

my role, I've been reading my way through the, surgeon general

study on the epidemic of social isolation in America.

And and, yeah, we

I mean, church in America could be an

answer to so much of that epidemic. And what I really

noted when I started reading his study was there's a portion of it early

on where he notes places where people can connect in

community, and the church isn't even

identified. Mhmm. So what does that tell us

about how America now

views the role of church in cultivating loving community?

We didn't even appear in the list. Wow.

Alright. And that is so different. At least my understanding

of of, the shaping of America,

you know, a 100 more than a 100 years ago, and particularly,

if you if you were to I come out of the

historic African American culture,

and my parents come out of an African American stream of

Methodist, and that is so

counts to what's what's revealed in that. In fact, the every the

everything relative to community was centered around and

through the church. But I do have,

family members, including, at least one of my children at

one point, basically asked a question, that I think that he he asked later,

and and that is why should anyone bother to be a Christian,

period. And I I realized,

friends, that I pretty much was not for years. I was

handed handed faith and handed the church.

You know, it was kinda it was it it was will to be

a transfer, but I realized, that I have

family members in a in a real a good a good portion of our society.

C, basically, as you as you've just, revealed in in the

study, is you know, that's not that's not

how we are experiencing

a spiritual encounter or spiritual growth at all.

And sometimes I wonder if I really have a a good

answer for that. What you know, why should anyone bother to be a Christian

much less be a part of the United Methodist Church?

Why would anyone want to bother to be a Christian?

Pastor Sherry Drake, I saw you on mute.

Yes. I've managed to lose my own image.

I'm not technical. Emma, are you hearing me now? Yes. We

are. Okay. I'm waving my hands and stuff. They no.

I I was just thinking, this, this is such

an important question to me, in the sense that

a a few years

can take a doctor of ministry class where I was trying to see

about the the the traditions of the church.

Like what, you know, what, what do we have to put to

to to carry forward and thought about that verse, where they tell the

story of the a wise householder goes into his house and brings

out treasures both old and new. And one of the things that

I'm loving about this book study is the that invitation

to take the very, kind of core of our Methodist

traditions in a way, but then interpret and

reinterpret and rereinterpret it into a new future.

And so that gives me so much hope. And I'm

sorry that we haven't found the way of

communicating that to those outside of the church

yet. You know what I mean? So

It's a really good point. Are there others? Erin, I see your

hand waving. Yeah.

Well, first, I wanna say hi to Lisa Trigg. Hi, friend.

Lisa and I had the opportunity this summer to spend a couple weeks with

Paul Chilcote in England. And this particular

chapter highlighted some of the conversations,

at least that I was in on with Paul. Lisa, you were probably in on

them too. It's one in particular where on

page 56, he says, we need to rediscover what it

means to be a movement. And,

because as we Trimble to Oxford and to Epworth and and

Bristol and London and all the Wesley places, we were

constantly amazed by how the Wesley's ignited

this revival and started this Methodist movement inside

the church. And the question for all of us was,

how can we do that today? And,

and that seems to be the question that is here too in

this chapter and throughout the rest of the book is how do we

ignite a revival within our church today.

And we have a real opportunity before us, that

he outlines for us, and it's all centered around love and, yes, relationships are huge.

C

that that remains the question, doesn't it? Mhmm.

And I think the, I certainly connect with the notion

that a movement, is not

connected to, right doctrine or

adherence to the the right perfect

doctrine, but more as he argues

to the to the movement of the spirit and to love and to

being known by love and to loving those

that often feel unloved more so than if

we all can agree on, the particulars

around Amen. Doctrine. Yes. And earlier in the

book, he talked about the the real the way that the

Wesleys were really unique in being able to

take the message to a people who did not feel loved, who

did not know that god loved them regardless

and help those people understand that, yes, you have a god. He loves

you, and, you can live through this into a

better life. And that was the real fire that

Wesley had. And don't you know we're in a similar

situation today, where the bulk of

our our friends on the streets who are not with us in the churches

Yeah. Don't know that they really are loved and that they are

worthy. And and that was part of what Paul said

too. The movement is outside of our church buildings. It's out

among people. It's out in the places where you don't expect it to be,

but it is, and that's where it's most receptive. So it's it's

the jails and the food pantries and all those gritty

places we might not want to go. Those are

that's where we reignite this movement,

and that's where we've gotta go. This connects real this

really connects for me, doctor Fulbright, with,

I know all of us weren't there, but to hear Bishop Bob Farr,

and the emphasis because I kept wrestling with how good

we are at mission, but but sometimes we don't

get the names of the people that we are, quote, unquote, in mission

with. What does it mean to become missional and for us to

become missionaries? And the Wesley's and the early Methodist,

it was a movement because they were essentially missionaries.

Some argue I'm not an expert on this. Maybe doctor Cartwright can

help us with this as or one of the other scholars on here. But in

that some argue that in 1968, when we became 68

when we became the United Methodist Church, then we

became a church for its membership. We were we in

fact, we became much less of, we

in fact, we gave up the priority of even actually being a movement altogether

because we've now we're, an institution. We

had sufficient numbers to brag about our ranking in

terms of main, protestant

presence in the US. Now it's very very much a different

church with growth taking place, not

not in the west, but taking place in in the

global global south, and to

recognize that our membership has has declined essentially

from 1970 till now,

in the US and has grown in other places outside of the

US. So, this notion

of of of movement versus, maybe

institutional stability and survival, has

really has really, really been a an ongoing

conversation. It's not a new conversation at all.

But some places, we do actually see see, you know,

excitement and enthusiasm, and I often wanna I often ask the

question, you know, what what

happens in your local church, does it really matter? And

I believe it does matter. And sometimes it matters what we may

seem like to us in very small ways, but essentially,

it's it's it's really, it's really part of what

what god is doing through the church.

Other commentary on chapter 5.

This is Sherry Drake again. Like I said, I cut out a

picture of myself, so I don't know whether but, may I bring just a

quick word of of hope that I, came across?

When we're talking about how we do things, one of the

things that, I've always been a music lover and have had a

chance to sing and stuff. And I was absolutely

delighted to discover that at Ball State University

in the last decade, one of the most

the the fastest growing music,

requests are for people wanting to learn how to

play traditional church pipe organs.

And the interesting thing was is that these are young people. I talked to a

couple to try to find out why they wanted that, And they love

a mixture of music, but they love the ideas of

some of the old hymns that are played in the ways

that we used to celebrate. So our little congregation

is trying to play around with how it is we might be able to get

those of us who love the traditional pipe organ because that's what we grew up

with, together with these younger people who are

saying that they're really excited about it it too. So end

of story. That was great that was great story. That was

great story. Did you have a I'd be 1 oh, I

see Steve Burris. Steven Lee Burris. He

wanted this year. Yes, please.

We can hear you. Okay.

Just in I wanted to encapsulate this in,

what I think is a simple phrase. It's not

about doctrine. It's not about structure. It's

about attitude, an attitude of love. And we

can have that even in the environment

within the local church. But sometimes, the

little church spends most of its time on saving the structure

or protecting the doctrine.

Mhmm. Okay. Yeah. I

did keep in the chat. Diane offered a great question

for pondering and further conversation. You want me to read it?

Yes, please. Diane or, Diane, if you wanna

unmute, you can read your own question. I just don't see your face, so I

just wanted to be mindful of that. Go ahead, please.

I just was thinking as we were talking, what would happen if

we were asking the question, what can we do for our neighbors,

rather than how can we get our neighbors to walk through our doors.

And I was thinking about it because I was in a small rural church this

morning preaching, and I was just thinking, you know, this church

wants to grow and wants people to come to them. But what would happen if

they put all of their effort into going out into the

community and, being there and being

present rather than worrying so much about who was

coming through their doors and how old they were and etcetera,

etcetera. What if they were what if we were all

out trying to figure out what we could do in our own neighborhoods instead

of trying to think that our mission was to get the people in through

our doors? Great. Great. Great. Great. That's

that's so consistent with on page 61, the

top, about the what our primary question should be.

And do our siblings and the human family know they are loved?

So so, you know, can we answer that? Do do do the folks in our

communities know that know that know that they are loved.

C? I think it's also such a culturally

right time for what Methodist really

stands for. And, and I'm gonna put a quote out of that,

surgeon general's report. I just put it into the chat because one of the things

that he talks about also is that as we see the

widening gap between the rich and the poor in America and the decline of the

middle class, that places where people can establish

social connection, there need to be spaces that are

equitable. I mean, it doesn't do me any good to, like,

you know, establish social connection with people at an art

institute if I don't have the money to take on a membership.

Whereas church, you know, as as Wesley

showed, Wesley left the building because, basically, people couldn't

afford the building and went out into the fields

to preach to the poorest of the poor who desperately

needed to hear about God's love and also

be brought together in community, in caring community.

So in some sense, it's it's back to the future. We're experiencing some of the

same cultural context as what the Wesley's

ministered in and and how they started.

Because church holds the power, not the building church. The

church as the collected people of Christ

holds the power to truly create

equitable connection and love and care.

Right. Right. Doctor Hartline?

Yeah. They they say that confession is good for the soul, and,

I'm a a little bit more than a year into retirement. And I've

been trying to practice what, James Baldwin called,

doing your first works over, which means to go back and

examine things. And it's it's sort of

a an examination of conscience, but it's also about truth

telling. So as it turns out, I was a pastor of a rural

church in North Carolina 40 years ago,

and that was the time of the bicentennial of

Methodism. And so, we did a number of things. So

that particular congregation had been,

sir, had, hosted,

Francis Asbury in 17/80. And so it was a

rural congregation, but it was over 200 years old. And,

it it was a good season for me as a first time pastor,

but I was a workaholic. I was all

about doing, and, it wasn't enough about

being with. So I I look back on

that season that I was the pastor of that

church, And, I I,

I've learned the learned the distinction from,

Samuel Wells. He says we we

tend in our preoccupation with our achievements to be

all about doing for because it

it seems to offer us the the

consolation that we're accomplishing something, but,

we overlooked the opportunities for being with.

So when I look back 40 years ago, I

realized that I had opportunities for

being with those who were alcoholics.

And I had the opportunities for those,

to cross the color line every day. I lived in a

segregated community where there were blacks and whites. There were 4 white churches

and were black churches, and, I I

was pretty righteous about wanting

to propose that our church worship with the other United

Methodist Church in town, but I I wasn't

enough about multiplying love in the way that Paul Chilcot

is talking about it. And so I didn't form relationships with

with, the people in the town,

black or white. So, you know, it's it's,

it's a hard thing to recognize,

fundamental errors, but, if I had been about multiplying

love, 40 years ago

in rural North Carolina,

I I would not have done some of the things that I did for

which I got accolades. You know? I I achieved

things, and I I felt good about my achievements. But,

meanwhile, 2 of the children that I

baptized in that church that year grew up in the

family of an alcoholic. They are United

Methodist clergy today, and they are alcoholics.

And it's a a very

poignant thing to know that that's part of their baptism,

part of their life, and witness part of the ways in which they,

have died and been raised with Christ. But I have to wonder

what what what, what might have been

if I had been, more

attentive to, being

with that family in the midst of it. I I don't have

any reason to think that I would have kept them from

being alcoholics, but I I might have offered some

consolation in the midst of what has been a lifelong struggle.

So confession is good for the soul. Thank you for

sharing. Erin, I saw your hand.

Yeah. Doctor Cartwright, as you were talking, it got me thinking about another

thing that jumped from Paul Chilcote's pen into my

head part. I don't know. But he says, you know, all

crush Christians find their ultimate purpose in servanthood.

Just as in Jesus' image of the vine and branches, we are gathered

to learn how to love as disciples and then sent

out into the world as apostles to share that

love with others. It seems like we do a

pretty good job gathering and sharing the message

with each other. It's the hard part is that going out

into the world not to do to those other people or even

for those other people but to share with them the good

news. And god then takes that and goes from there. And

what we don't do that good job of is taking it out

the next step. Just

thanks for that prompt. Now what is what is

our work? What is God's work? Yeah. Alright. And to my to my dear

friend and colleague, Michael, in the name of Jesus Christ, you are

forgiven. Mhmm. We all are for our,

looking at as as one who's getting ready to step into retirement. I

look back look back on all the things that I did not do. But I

wonder just reading 61 and 62, I don't know if you were

just just indicted by, but I wonder if

the god we are offering is not the god that people believe in

or the god that that they believe. So if

25% of those who, who,

from the Baylor Baylor study, really believe that

the god is a what what's the word

I'm looking for? 25% believe

oops. 25% god is a generous and benevolent

god. So that means that the majority of people really think of god

more as authoritarian, a critical god, judgmental

god. So so and then the the second part,

really second looking at non Christians view of Christians,

here we turn to 2 different studies, the Lifeways study,

drew the following conclusion. A majority of unchurched

Americans, 79%, friends, think that Christianity

today is really more about organized religion

than loving God and loving neighbor or loving people.

86% believe they can have a good relationship with

God without having anything to do with the church at all. These are I'm

paraphrasing, but that's essentially what it says. So we've got

a a majority of folks who, a

significant number of folks who believe that the god that we are that that that

the church has to offer is not a gracious necessary.

I'm I'm adding this myself, but I don't know if you agree. You know, maybe

they're saying maybe we think that the god we're offering we're

offering god as love. We're preaching sermons on love, but that's not

how other people are perceiving or experiencing or receiving what

it is that we have to offer. I have a a brother-in-law a brother-in-law

who's passed on now who we had kind of an

ongoing discussion around whether you really even needed to be part

of the church to to be a healthy spiritual

spiritually connected to God. My bias was, well,

it's in the Trimble. You know? The Bible said Julius as

Jesus went to the the synagogue, they said, as was his custom. So I'm

assuming that Jesus went more than just first Sunday every

quarter. And so I was a firm believer in that where's the

text Thessalonians, where's the text where it says or Hebrews where it's

neglect not to gather and, you know, so so I think

there's an encouragement for us to be community. I'm a I'm a big believer

that Christian community is essential for Christian

growth. My brother-in-law was of the belief that, you know,

people don't have to go to church, they have a relationship with

God, accept Jesus Christ, and just do good

things, you know, and that was that was it. So

now that I got my little therapy session out of the way

I think it's time to move on to chapter 6, Bishop. Alright. Alright. We we

we got time limitations on this. Because we got time.

Okay. Let's go to check. Go ahead, doctor. What what what do you

So the title of chapter 6, the church as a community of

inclusive love and grace. So I think it's quite interesting when you talked about

that Baylor study. It's how are we

conveying who God is? Because the ways in which

people experience God is through our words and our deeds. And

so it's quite interesting that that Baylor study elevated

the views of persons related to god when it should

be counter from what our understanding of who god is and the fullness

of who god is as we understand it is full of love without

bounds. But yet, sometimes, church people

don't necessarily, give a good name for

God. That's just like on Yelp. If someone gives

only 2 stars to a restaurant or some type of establishment,

people are not going to go to that establishment, typically, if

there's only 2 stars. I just wonder what's God's

yelp right now as it relates to humanity.

Is god only getting 2 stars? And if that's the case, how can

we change that? That would be my curiosity. I didn't get to

preach this morning. So, Bishop, I'll I'll quiet that down.

I just just need to preach in. What

I really like about this book, friends, is well, there were a lot of things

I like about it, but with the titles of the chapter. So the number

6, to me, it's like period, hard stop.

This is this is this the church is a community of inclusive

love and grace. Would somebody be willing to read

the read the scripture text and then, unmute

unmute yourself and and read the scripture text on page

65.

Who would be willing to share? John, 154 to 58

through 10. Krista. I would do the remain

in me, and I will remain in you. A branch can't

produce fruit by itself, but must remain in the vine.

Likewise, you can't produce fruit unless you remain in

me. I am the vine. You are the branches.

If you remain in me and I in you, then you will produce

much fruit. Without me, you can't do anything.

My father is glorified when you produce much fruit, and in this

way prove that you are my disciples. As the father loved

me, I too have loved you. Remain in

my love. If you keep my commandments, you will

remain in my love. Just as I kept my father's

commandments and remain in his love.

Amen. Amen.

Commentary on, on the reading of the text and

the and the title of chapter 6, the church's community of

inclusive love and grace.

I think the reading of this text, pairs well with what Chokot says

on page 67 when he says that everything begins with God's

love. Everything. Ideally, the church embodies this

love as well. And one of the notes that I had shared is that

if we are truly a culture of love, it's not what we do, it's who

we are.

Alright. I see you on mute. Go ahead.

Alright. I don't have my copy of his book, right before

me. I did did read it, this week, and,

he he, I think he has

identified something quite telling in his critique of the other

book, and I I know our focus is not to,

be preoccupied with what, Jeff Greenway and,

Mike Lowry wrote. But

I think this is one of these places where there's a a great confusion

between the kind of unity of like mindedness

that, that he identifies as as a

problem and the kind of unity and love,

the abiding and the bind that is being described in

this in this chapter. And so,

I I do grieve for those who have disaffiliated,

because they find like mindedness to be

more

viable for getting on with the mission that they wanna be about.

And, as our bishop said,

you know, the doctrine rightly understood,

is is about loving, and, rightly used

is going to is gonna be, for the

sake of mission. But,

this this movement to

recreate the church around like mindedness, it just grieves me

deeply. It creates

a mirror image of not a mirror image. It creates,

more echo chambers, more

culture wars, frameworks. And so I I do think that

Paul Chilcot has, named quite

well, the dimensions of this that extend

out in terms of polity, institutional arrangements.

It's just such a well may well wrought,

vision of the church that he's, describing for

us here. And I I do fear that, you

know, there are there are left wing versions of this as well.

So it may be it may be very easy for us to

talk about, like mindedness as if

it's all about, right wing

patterns of doctrinal uniformity. But, I I see

it on the left, and I grieve about it there too. And

so god god help us, and god deliver us from, the

too easy

invitation to group ourselves around being like

minded and everyone agreeing with,

what they judged to be the most, salient points. And,

this this vision of living into,

abiding and divine that that has a lot

of, a lot of power, but it it

does create and has a great deal of vulnerability

because I I didn't have to I have to deal with you

and you have to deal with me. And

not not just what what we, what we say we agree

on. I think it I think

it would be who was to really become much

more confessional and Trimble

in our approach to,

you know, our Christian identity and faith.

I really wrestle with the words authentic. Y'all

know Brene Brown and others have made authenticity and vulnerability

very popular terms in recent years.

But even when even when, Chico writes about Wesley

and and and, you know, the portrait of what an authentic Christian

looks like, You know, it always it always raises in, you know, I guess, what

if you're striving? You don't you you're just resting with trying to be,

I I like the hymn, Lord, I wanna be a Christian in my heart first.

I wanna be more loving. I wanna be more like Jesus.

This notion of, oh, what this is an authentic Christian witness,

so this is an authentic Christian identity.

I think there's a bit of I don't know. I don't wanna say

arrogance, but but I think if we can approach,

where we want to be, where we where we want God with where we

think God wants us to be with a lot more humility, which I think

is the reason I think our prayers of confession are

needed. We don't need to I know in our effort sometimes

to abbreviate our worship liturgy, we we we cannot

have exited, our prayers

of confession, even sometimes in our communion liturgies.

We've and I always wrestle with doctor.

I don't know if you've ever had people come to you and say,

people have come to me and said, Bishop, can I be brutally honest? Can I

be honest with you in this conversation? I always wondered, well, all

these previous conversations that we've been having, David,

do we need to go back and review? I thought we

were being to the best of our abilities, being honest.

So I don't know. I I know. I wrestle I know there's limitations

in our in our in our language in our languages, and that's

why I really appreciate interfacing with people from other

who speak other languages and from other cultures and,

and who sing other songs. Right. One way I love going to Africa

University and because some of the songs and the songs that they

sing when they translate them, I said, woah. That is really a

fresh look at what it means to love God and praise God

when you hear it from another language and it's interpreted,

into into English. Bishop,

I see Steve. Steve, did you have something to share?

Yes. To, to quote

earlier, to be brutally frank, and to

reflect on what, doctor Cartwright said.

As a former council and ministry director working with Ed

Finstermacher as it might, turn out. You might

know him well. And

and that role, certainly part of it was church growth, and we were all

about, making sure the churches grew

and, started new churches, but so much

of it was about about finding the

location, getting the people inside the building.

And I think we've come to especially after the pandemic,

we've come to a real crossroads because

those who do remain in the church,

are are clinging to, the

structure, the building,

and to deal with the idea that we might have to walk away

from that and to to be

with, as doctor Cartwright said, to be with

others and to have that to really be the

main thrust of our service in the name of

Jesus. And, now we're

involved in a church now that, will,

will have to make some serious decisions about the edifice

at a time when we wanted to be

out with people making a difference. I I've got

the the joy in of, being able to be a

volunteer, chaplain at the YMCA.

And purpose that goes right along with what doctor

Cartwright was saying, was to do a ministry of

presence just to be there with people,

to be open to talk to them, whether it's about their faith or

whether it's about what they did yesterday or with the new car they bought or

whatever it is. And that

seems so different than what I,

was charged to do along with many other things in the role of

council director. It's just a new world,

and, it's a world that we have to accept

the reality. We have to make a change. Thank you for

doing this, Bishop. Thank thank you for joining us, all of

you. One of the books that, I've also

encouraged people to consider reading is is Bishop Ken Carter's

book, Unrelenting Grace, and I think it really pairs

pairs beautifully with what, Paul

writes. Because maybe the future and I think the argument there and argument

here is that our future might not be in our edifices,

Steve, as you as you as you were sharing, but our future may be

in our theology and our capacity

really to be with people where they

are and the fact that it that our that our strongest part

of our Wesleyan, way of being

is the notion of generous grace, you know,

a a generous unrelenting grace. And I think

that's best experience as others have said,

on this this evening and previously,

relationships. You know? People experience god's grace

in large part through relationships.

And I see that when I'm visiting local congregations, and I

see the way in which, they've made room for people in the

community, and they are engaged in their communities.

This is how people are experiencing and how people are experiencing God

in part in part, how people are experiencing God.

Awesome. Are there any other insights,

curiosities, and our concluding minutes together this

week? My, how time flies when we're having fun,

and having rich conversation. Doctor, I see you on

mute. Welcome. I see that. Yes, John. Gospel

of John right there, remain in me, and I will remain in

you. I think we kinda have to go back

there. That's the whole genesis of this

study. A lot of times, we

forget to be to be with the Christ,

and somehow I am in control.

I am in control. And we

and if I if I know that I am in control over church and

building and then all of that, it is difficult for us

what it means to be and remain in Christ,

remain in Jesus. So I just kind of as we conclude,

I like words to kind of take us back to,

you know, Christ following Jesus means that we are going

to the margins, not at the center where I

control everything. I am at the center, and I

am I have given all the power to control, be sure that

everything runs smoothly the way that I see it.

But he said not true. It is not true

that God and through Jesus Christ has not given us commandments.

Yes, ma'am. And so if you're talking about it because right here, we read it.

Sometimes we read this and we we hear the word love and unity, but we

forget the word commandment. It's this is not something

that we're supposed to be trying to figure out how to do some new

new foot fandangled way of of being

being a a god follower. It says the commandment

the the commandment is love. I'm

sorry, You weren't finished making your your

point. But I was I was I went back and looked at the scripture how

you how you were raising that. Yes. Yes,

Bishop. Thank you, though. I think a lot of times a

lot of times, you know, it is time for us to as a as a

Methodist, you know, is there something that we have a control over?

Or is is this a time for us to kind of, release

that we thought that we have a control over? And then

going back to the main, you know, main you know,

the the relationship with the Christ, he said remain in

me. Amen. Amen.

I see something else in the chat.

Brad Miller was giving his information information about your Be

Encouraged podcast. So, friends, if you have missed the last two

other weeks that we have been on Journey and you would like to get caught

up or curious about what was said, if you've missed, the

be encouraged podcast, we'll provide those this learning

in addition to today. Also, as we are concluding,

next week is our final week. My word. It has gone by

so quickly. And so if you have friends

that, have wanted to join, but they forget forgot to

join, invite them to be a part of it because as you see, it's

more conversational as we are taking leadership from our Bishop,

and we will be concluding this book, chapter 7 and 8. But

again, the book is not needed fully in order to gauge in

the conversation because a lot of it is by our

experiences, but then also the movement of God's spirit just to remind

us from scripture what we are called to do as faithful followers

of Jesus Christ. So, Bishop, in your last minute

with us this week, is there any concluding things

that you would like to share? Yes. I'd like to invite us once again,

beloved, to tomorrow morning or whenever you wake up, I hope it's

tomorrow morning, that you'd read, the prayer

from the top of chap page 42. New

every morning and your love, god. The second thing I saw in the

chat around, a waitress,

people going to restaurant and sometimes people come out of church being

and I I know that to be true. This is not this is not

hyperbole or or this is this is not

anecdotal in a sense a study could be done and and and

certainly facts would bear the bear this out. And here's my invitation

for the remainder of our Lenten time. When we just I just

came from a restaurant with some of our family who's in town, and they'll

leave in town tomorrow. And we had a wonderful experience,

wonderful exchange with the server. But that

we have so many opportunities when we encounter people to

really demonstrate kindness. And, we I don't think we

we we get extra stars for that. But but

kindness should really be slow easily from the mouths and from

the hearts of those of us who are Christ followers.

And, I I just if we can encourage each other, something

I need to be encouraged to to to remember that I'm gonna have an

opportunity tomorrow at some point to,

to really demonstrate, what I call Christian kindness,

but but kindness during this season. And I have

22 of our 3 children, 2 our 2 boys, all

both served as service in restaurants. One of our

oldest son for a number of years, and the stories that we

we heard from people who actually worked in restaurant and service,

I was I was I was disappointed to hear how some

people, really, really,

interact with people who are who are serving them.

Let us pray. Loving god for our time together, we give you thanks

and praise. Grant us another opportunity, oh

god, to not only be receivers of grace,

but extenders of grace. Grant us, oh god,

another opportunity at night to rest well and tomorrow

to to awaken, to give you praise

and glory with another opportunity, oh god,

to grow in grace and to extend and

express the love of Jesus Christ to a hurting and hungry world.

Bless those who've been able to join us on this Lenten journey with

multiplying love, and grant us, oh god, a commitment,

to really strengthen the connection of the United Methodist

Church in the present day and the days which are ahead.

It is in Christ's name we pray. Amen.

Love you, friends. Be encouraged. Have a good evening. Thank

you, Bishop.