Matt Woodcock is Research and Impact Support Officer in the School of English at the University of Leeds. Before this Matt was an academic for nearly 20 years, reaching the status of Professor of Medieval and Early Modern Literature.

Sarah and Matt talk about

• Why he sees his career journey as an ongoing process of specializing in the work he really enjoys
• What it is like to have a 360-degree view of the research process
• His love of editing and the peer review process which led him first into publishing and then to the ARMA Insights magazine
• How empathy underpins the work he does with researchers

Find out more

• Find full show notes, the transcript and timestamps on the episode webpage
• Connect with Matt on LinkedIn or via the University of Leeds website

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Research Adjacent Directory Member of the Month: Clare Jonas, That Thinking Feeling

What do you get if you cross an academic psychologist with a research communicator? Some amazing skills training workshops! Clare offers workshops which support researchers to develop knowledge and practical skills in three overlapping areas: research communication, taking care of ourselves and each other, and career skills for academia and beyond. They’re based on Clare's professional expertise, lived experience, evidence from psychology and related fields... and love of dad jokes! Find out more at https://www.thatthinkingfeeling.co.uk/

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Come along to meet other research-adjacent folks in person at Brooklyn Bar in Leeds on Thursday 30 April 2026 from 5.30pm. Open to anyone who feels part of this world. Facilitated by podcast host Sarah McLusky. Find out more and sign up here https://researchadjacent.circle.so/c/open-events/leeds-research-adjacent-community-networking-4058c1

The word academic covers such a multitude of different activities

and I'd been in that profession for 20 years and making that pivot to

professional services enabled me to focus on elements that I really enjoyed.

Rather than seeing it as a discontinuity or heaven forbid as there being a

kind of hierarchy between academia and professional services, is actually

really seeing it ultimately as continuity or I suppose even specialisation.

We write with the expectation and hope that we will be peer reviewed and just

having seen the, I suppose the generosity and the articulation of intellectual

generosity at work every day is really fantastic part of that process.

Hello there.

I'm Sarah McLusky and this is Research Adjacent.

Each episode I talk to amazing research adjacent professionals about what

they do and why it makes a difference.

Keep listening to find out why we think the research adjacent space

is where the real magic happens.

Hello there and welcome to Research Adjacent.

We're back after a short Easter break with a brand new episode

and a really interesting guest.

Today I am talking to Matt Woodcock.

Matt is currently research and impact support officer at the University of

Leeds, but what makes Matt a particularly interesting guest is that before joining

the team at Leeds, Matt was an academic, and I'm not just talking about any

academic here, but a full professor of medieval and early modern literature.

Being an academic is a job that he did for nearly 20 years, and the really

surprising thing is that he sees his move into a research adjacent role as a

way of specializing in the work that he really loved, rather than the step down

that many people might assume it to be.

As you can imagine, we talk a lot about how he has navigated this

change, including how it has shifted his identity and why he's now well

placed to support researchers who find themselves where he used to be.

And we also talk about why he loves the peer review process.

Yes, really listen on to hear Matt's story.

Welcome along to the podcast, Matt, it's fantastic to have you here.

I wonder if we could begin by hearing a little bit about

who you are and what you do.

Thank you very much, Sarah.

I am the Research and Impact Support Officer in the School of

English at the University of Leeds.

I've been at Leeds just over two years now I suppose two and a half

years now, and my responsibility really covers three broad, but heavily

interlinked areas linked to research, linked to impact, and I do a lot with

research comms research communications.

And so thinking about the visibility of our colleagues research,

yeah, no two days are the same.

I love that it's a mixture of kind of cyclical administrative activities

and lots of project based tasks.

So I enjoy the rhythm of those two.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Could you give us maybe a couple of examples of the sorts of projects

that you've been working on recently or the sorts of research that's

happening in your, the people, the academics you work with?

Yeah,

Certainly.

Well, in the school of English at the University of Leeds, we've got a wide

range of different kinds of research taking place and lots of impact case

studies going alongside those and in terms of projects, I've been really interested

in thinking about resource development.

I'm not gonna mention REF yet, but it will come up, I'm sure.

But also been really interested in thinking about, I suppose the

whole of the research lifecycle.

Really interested in thinking about supporting researchers all the way

through from that moment where you're thinking, oh, I could do this all

the way through past publication, to thinking about, okay, what will this

do in the world, who am I speaking to?

How can I make my research better known?

And I've been really interested in thinking about peer to

peer development activity.

And I set up a project probably about 18 months ago in the school, thinking

about how to work with researchers really while research is on the anvil.

So work in progress.

All researchers have got work in progress, it's the one thing, which is

the great leveler is that somebody is always working on something generally.

And so it's really thinking about a peer-to-peer development structure,

which enables colleagues to read each other's work, maybe to work in groups,

maybe to work individually, and really to think how to preempt the responses

that a peer reviewer panel or a funding panel or publishers panel may have.

And to how to how to get past that part of the writing process, which certainly

in the humanities can be quite isolating, quite lonely and quite individualistic.

And and again, I can speak a little bit about my own experience

in, in that place as well.

So that's something I've been really interested in.

We have a lot of colleagues working in across historical research, linguistic

research and practice research as well.

And so I'm I work with colleagues in all of those different sort of

facets and sectors of that school.

Yeah.

Fantastic.

Thank you for that.

And I think that, what you've said there about your interest in the whole

of the research lifecycle and some of the challenges that researchers

face in terms of getting their work pulled together makes a lot of sense.

Once we know a bit more about your backstory, which is the main reason that

I wanted to invite you on the podcast as a guest because we've had lots of

people on before talking about impact and the ways that they support impact.

But I think your perspective on it's really unique, could you tell us a

bit more about your background and how you've ended up doing what you're doing.

Yes.

I had close to about 20 years as an academic including

18 years in, in one role.

I had a role as a, eventually I worked my way up to be a Professor in

Medieval and Renaissance Literature at the University of East Anglia and

had a career involved in teaching management and in, in research.

And so I've been involved in, in publishing projects, I published

essay collections and monographs, and I've received funding.

I've I had an impact case study in REF 2021 and I've had quite a lot of

senior administrative roles in relation to research and impact as, as well.

And so it's, it's been really interesting.

I look forward to talking, unpacking this a little bit as we go along in

terms of thinking about that that experience and having been on what

sometimes gets pitched as the other side.

Yeah.

And sort of having made that pivot to professional services

Yeah.

Certainly is, to have your perspective.

I think when we talked before we came on the call, you talked about

it as almost having like a 360 degree view of the research process?

Yes.

Yeah.

I also worked for two years in STEM publishing when I left academia.

And so that was a great pivot.

In many ways thinking of what academia really looks like from, from a STEM

point of view rather than a SHAPE point of view or humanities point of view.

I was heavily involved in the peer review process for academic journals and so

working on that side of the process.

I've worked quite a lot with publishers when I've been an academic in terms

of being on boards and what have you.

But it was just really insightful to think about what research looks

like in, in different fields and actually really thinking about the

the parts of the process of peer review which are vital, which is

in some ways is the most exciting, collegial part of this profession.

And how that then gets how that then gets managed.

I don't know that I've ever heard anybody describe

peer review as the most exciting part of the research process before.

So I love that you've got that, I love that you've got that insight there.

So what is it that, that you find so compelling about that part?

It is, it is the idea of dialogue and it's something

I, I think we'll probably come back to and talk about this.

It is the ability to imagine two sides of a process, two sides of an argument, which

is part of the writing process as a whole.

One one, one sees the process in involving, a writer, a reader, a reviewer,

a publisher, and the publisher's got their own demands as well and an editor as well.

And so seeing that the many different perspectives, views,

demands involved in that process.

And at the heart of that is this intangible force, which is individuals

working frequently for free, reading to improve the work that's published

and the sharing of new knowledge.

And if we're thinking about sort of key core definitions of what research is,

it's new knowledge and it's dissemination and peer review is fundamental to that.

And we write with the expectation and hope that we will be peer reviewed and that our

colleagues will have time to, to do that.

And just having seen the, I suppose the generosity and the articulation

of intellectual generosity at work every day is a really

fantastic part of that process.

And then to see that, as an author, to see as an editor, and then to see

it in as somebody involved in research support, it's it's, yeah, it's a

very warming part of the what can be sometimes called a, a difficult terrain.

Yes.

Yeah, no, really interesting to have that positive reframe of it.

'cause as you see, for a lot of people the idea of peer review is

terrifying, it's so intimidating.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I've been on the end of some bruising, peer reviews myself.

Yeah.

I've thought, I thought, oh, okay.

And so that's, part of my job as well is managing what happens when

one gets not so good peer reviews.

Yep.

Yeah, definitely happens.

It's definitely part of it.

So no doubt peer review, as you say, it's something you had a lot of experience

of in your 20 years as an academic.

I am sure there will be a lot of people listening thinking, okay,

so 20 years as an academic all the way to being a professor, surely

that's what people are aiming for.

That's the goal.

So why make a move?

I yeah, I made a pivot from academia, I suppose.

In one sense it enabled me to, being academic is such a portmanteau role,

such a portmanteau career involving teaching administration, management,

publishing, grant applications.

The word academic is covers such a multitude of different activities and

I'd been in, in that profession for, for 20 years and making that pivot to

professional services enabled me to focus on elements that I really enjoyed.

Maybe we don't talk about enough in relation to, to

work or, or academic roles.

But it did enable me to really, I think, focus on editing, which I,

I love and really enjoy and indeed thinking about support as well.

And I'm really happy to be in a job, which enables me to really focus on

those particular aspects, drawing upon the hopefully the experience

and expertise that I can bring from that, but sort of reframing it.

Yeah.

So.

How have you navigated then?

One of the things that I talk to a lot of people who have maybe had, even if it's

just a PhD or just, I don't mean to say just a PhD. A PhD in itself is a very

challenging thing, but who've had some degree of a career in academia or they've

thought about going down that path and then coming to do something different.

That sense in the shift of identity and sense of self, how has that been for you?

Yeah, that was I suppose, one of the biggest challenges.

As well, because I think, certainly as I inhabited the role of an academic I

really saw it as a vocation it wasn't just something I did, it was who I was.

And had this real commitment to the job and the sort of, multiple shifting

goals that that, that really has.

And so it did take some time to actually really think is there, a way

of detaching, well there has to be a real way of detaching who one is

as an individual from what one does.

And that was that process of disaggregating has, has actually

been really positive from a from a personal point of view in

terms of dividing work and life.

But also as I said, really focusing on the aspects of the academic career

that I, I enjoyed and actually, rather than seeing it as a discontinuity or

heaven forbid as there being a kind of hierarchy between academia and

professional services, is actually really seeing it ultimately as continuity

or I suppose even specialisation to use that a buzz word of the day.

But but it did really enable me to think that there are a lot of aspects

of this that I'm effectively really just continuing and having a conversation

about similar kind of things, similar kind of principles, same kind of worries,

same kind of concerns, but but maybe viewing things from a different way.

And it is, as you mentioned at the top of the call, as a kind of 360 experience

of this, which hopefully I can, I bring to the role and so it's, it is

negotiating that idea of discontinuity and that's been really helpful from

a sort of personal point of view.

Yeah, it's fascinating your description of it as in your head,

it's almost like you've specialised, like you've niched down on this one specific

part of things that, that, of the role of an academic that you enjoy doing.

And I don't think I've ever heard anybody use that kind of framing before, and

it's such a positive way to think about the way that these roles intersect

and the ways that the skills overlap.

And so how have you now found being, and people often do talk about it as

being different side of the fence, different sides of the academic process.

How have you found it being now on the research professional side and

interacting then with academics from that different perspective?

Hopefully I've found it, my colleagues have found it

useful and insightful and, one doesn't wanna sit in in, in a position and

say or been there, I've done that.

Or let me tell you how it was when I was there.

But it is.

There's lots of parts of the process in terms of, building impact case study, in

terms of receiving peer reviews, in terms of applying for funding, processes that

I've been involved in from from writing funding i've been involved in assessing

funding assessments quite a lot as well.

Is just being able to see both sides of that process and actually say this

is what's being looked for, this is, I know where you're coming from in

terms of these set of priorities.

These are the priorities that a funder or that a reader of

an impact case study will have.

Let's think about how we can, maybe translate those or think

about the the different demands.

And, it's been a, it's been a learning process for me in terms of moving and

looking at parts of processes which I think are frequently occluded or not even

really considered because there's loads of things that I, universities are big very

complex institutions and as an academic one is involved in one small part of that.

But actually being involved in thinking about, what it means to cost up a

funding bid or to think about the the evaluation of an impact case study

requires a whole set of new tools.

And it is that process of introducing academics to those parts of the process,

those parts of their institution and indeed the profession, which is, it's,

I think one of the things I really enjoy about the the role I'm in.

Yeah.

And is there anything that you've learned in particular that helps

to, as you say, in some, it sounds like, where you're positioned and

your experience you're managing to, to blend those two worlds together,

the professional and the academic.

But certainly a lot of people do feel that there is a bit of a barrier

there or there's a little bit of kind of antagonism between the

different priorities of the roles.

Is there anything you've particularly found that helps

to break down those barriers?

I suppose the key thing is really empathy.

It's actually really, when I'm involved in helping a colleague on the impact case

study or funding bid or the assessment of their research, I, I know what it means.

I know many how many hours and it takes to throw oneself into this or,

to, and there's a lot of sacrifice involved and there's a huge amount

of hidden unmentioned work and things that one chooses not to do that then

goes into writing a book or putting a funding bid together or working

with a team on a impact case study.

And so I think it really just helps to be able to perceive the value of those

activities and those sacrifices for want of a better term to actually think,

okay, this is important, this counts.

And to really then think, okay let's think about how we can between the

two of us get the best out of this.

So it just putting myself in that other person's position because I've

been in that position and I've known, there's lots of moments, peer review

is part of that, where you don't get the results that you necessarily would

like or the outcome that one would would expect having put in a lot of work.

And so managing that is it's, is difficult, but it's, hopefully

the experience of having managed that with others is something

I can bring to the role.

Yeah, as you say, that empathy piece and, and when it is helping

people to navigate, disappointment or critical feedback or things like

that, there, there's this unseen emotional labour that goes along with

that as well, isn't there, when you talk about all the kind of invisible

contributions that go into things?

Yes, absolutely.

And again, the, I suppose the sort of editing paradigm is something I

do keep with me and the idea that the editing process looks at one thing

and says, okay, it could be this.

Actually, it could be this or with tweaks, it could be this.

And having that idea of a sort of subtleness of thinking in terms of

thinking okay, this article wasn't gonna end up in this particular publication,

but it could be this, or it could now form the chapter of a monograph.

This funding bid wasn't successful, but it could now be this.

And so it's the idea of reworking the the amazing intellectual resources one,

one has and thinking, okay, we go again.

We reshape it and it could be re-edited, reworked into into different forms.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's interesting thinking about the way all of these different skills

come together in different ways.

And so one thing that you have done since you've come into this research

professional role is you've started to get involved with, some of the

professionalisation of it, I guess.

You've been working with ARMA, haven't you?

How did that come about?

Yes.

And what were you working on?

Yes, I, i'm a member of of ARMA and a member of

the ARMA editorial working group.

And so I'm involved in the editing, that word again, of ARMA Insights, the

the magazine of the the organisation.

And so involved in the part of a brilliant team involved in commissioning

and thinking about what the readership of the magazine would be.

What the leadership needs or wants from that and been involved in commissioning

as well as peer reviewing pieces for that.

And actually being involved in ARMA has been just really insightful

in terms of seeing the profession and not just the institution.

And again, I've had a lot of experience of that from a,

from an academic point of view.

Where you know be at universities and then go to conferences and be involved

in professional organisations and being in a professional organisation

connected with research support has just been an immense learning experience.

Quite a learning curve.

And I think I've gone into it as an academic would saying,

okay I'm in a new role here.

What's the first thing I'm gonna do?

I'm gonna read lots.

It's been really good just in terms of putting me in direction of some amazing

resources as well as just amazing people.

Yeah.

And actually it's the connecting with people and building new networks,

which has been really exciting part of, of, of that process.

And a part as well of building that new identity, as you say

from having that shift from a, an identity you had in an earlier part of your career.

Yes, absolutely.

Yes.

And connecting with a lot of people who are in a similar position in terms of

thinking about what gets frequently called porous careers and people who are moving

between academia or editing or working with a funder and professional services.

So it's just really good.

Again, it's really good for just thinking, what, there is a a body of

people involved in this rather than just that slightly individual isolated way

in which I think sort of academia can work and sometimes post COVID, I think,

I think individuals can work as well.

So it's been, yeah, I can't recommend it enough.

Yeah.

And as you see, I think it's only when you really get into the research professional

roles that you start to really understand how much of an iceberg research is, so

you've got on the surface, there's the publications and the conferences and the

contributions to knowledge, however that is, that is structured and presented, but

then yeah, under the surface, all these different roles and different people

and different contributions that they're making to keep the whole thing running.

And certainly for myself, it was only when I came into a research

professional role that I really got my head around just how much went into it.

Yes.

The, I think back to when I was an academic, maybe a, an early career

academic as well in terms of thinking, I just wanna write articles, just

wanna write books, just want to spend time in archives and libraries.

And, that's still a valued and vital part of the of the of the work.

But it is, like you say, it is an aspect.

There's so many aspects and, it continues to grow and to gain in sophistication.

And the culture of research has changed vastly from when I

entered the profession as well.

And that's been really interesting to see in the way in which, you know,

collaborative and team-based research and interdisciplinary research and the use of

kind of a level of sort of prioritisation of different types of research as well.

These are all sort of new nuances and it's, I'm seeing behind the

scenes on that or rather seeing into territory, which as an academic

I hadn't really fully ventured.

You know, I'd worked with funders before.

I worked for publishers before, but it was really looking at it into seeing

just how vast this world of research was

it's been dizzying at times, it's part of the continued plan.

Yes.

Yeah.

Oh with your as you say, 360 degree view of the research process, i'm

really interested in your answer to this question, which I like to ask all of

my guests, which is, if you had a magic wand, what would you change about this

world that you find yourself working in?

I love this question and I'm sure my answer is a real sort of cheat

answer as well, but there's two answers.

One is that, in some ways I'd love it if one could get more sort

of detailed, nuanced feedback on unsuccessful funding applications

where you just get a no and that's it.

And obviously that requires somebody at the other end of that to spend

time providing that information.

So that's, the behind the magic there is somebody working.

And so perhaps that's unrealistic.

So I suppose if I was gonna have a second choice it would be really thinking,

I suppose it'd be really useful for academics to have the opportunity to

learn more and to be able to shadow research professionals and to have

the I suppose a little bit more time maybe willingness to to do that.

And so that doesn't necessarily require a magic wand that just maybe

requires a little bit more time, which I know is what people ask for a lot.

Well, it is that's, that's one reason why it's a magic

wand, 'cause we can magic up time.

But but yeah, as you say, both of your answers there actually quite

pragmatic and doable with the right resources and mindset really.

I'm not anti magic.

Yeah.

But I think you're, I think you're right.

I think that just more opportunities for people to really understand each other.

I think it comes back to what you said about empathy, doesn't it?

It's, academics and research professionals really understanding

the pressures of each other's jobs.

And then also from what you've said there as well, it's almost like

funders understanding what it's like to be on the receiving end of that no.

And the fact that a little bit more nuance and constructive feedback can

help to soften that blow, can't it?

Yeah.

And I know as an academic, I would've found it really insightful, I think to

have just spent an afternoon with the team costing funding bids or the that the

team involved in impact administration.

Just to find out, what happens once that application form has gone in and

I was involved in quite a lot of peer review and various things like that.

But it is, yeah.

I think it's something which could be done.

Yes.

Yeah.

With a little bit of money

Yeah.

But also it, as I say, speaks to that thread of empathy running through

the conversation that we've had and clearly just the way that you work.

Yeah.

And having conversations and having dialogues and and chatting with

people over coffee, which I do a lot.

Yeah.

I think the more we connect with people, the better.

That's what I'm all about anyway.

Yeah.

Thank you so much Matt for coming along and sharing your story.

If people want to reach out to you at all, is there a good

place that they can find you?

Do you hang out online or through the university website?

What's the best?

The university website.

I have a webpage there which describes what I do, who I am, talks a little

bit about my academic route, and is a way to connect up with me.

Yeah.

Fantastic.

We'll get that link and put it in the show notes.

So thank you so much for coming along and sharing your story and the

fact that you've seen it from all sides I think is really fascinating.

So thank you.

Thank you, Sarah, thanks for this opportunity.

Thanks for listening to Research Adjacent.

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