Hello, my rebellious friends! I'm Siobhan Daniels, your guide and ally on this exhilarating journey we call "Retirement Rebel". In today’s episode, we're welcoming the incredible Jo Moseley, who, like many of us, has found her stride and voice in an age where society has often told us to slow down.

Our introduction paved the way for three key subjects that both Jo and I hold close to our hearts. 

Firstly, we're addressing the transformative power of adversity. Life threw Jo more curveballs than most—a divorce, the responsibility of being a single mum, and the heartache of losing her parents. It’s in the throes of these struggles that she discovered the cathartic joy of paddleboarding, which didn't just offer her solace but became a cornerstone of her life story. We discuss how diving into such passions can act as a conduit for personal renaissance, something Jo demonstrates so beautifully.

The second subject that both of us believe is essential is the rejection of society’s rather dated and, frankly, inaccurate perceptions of ageing. We refuse to accept that our latter years are just about decline. Jo speaks candidly about her adventures, her filmmaker and author pursuits, and even taking up skateboarding, approaching 60! She embodies the message that turning sixty is not the end of excitement but rather the start of new, daring chapters in our book of life. We both passionately advocate for a mindset where age is not a barrier but a badge of courage.

And thirdly, we delve into the importance of support and community. Jo and I, through our own channels, aim to repay the kindness and help we've received over our journeys. Our shared ethos is to provide a platform for voices like ours to be heard—voices that have often been marginalised or silenced by misconceptions about what ageing women are capable of. We're here to not only challenge those ideas but to create a space where people, regardless of their age, can come together, learn from one another, and embrace the rebels within.

Together, Jo and I aim to inspire, encourage, and sometimes gently nudge our listeners towards embracing their inner rebel and living life to its absolute fullest. So, buckle up, my friends. This episode is all about breaking moulds and celebrating the sheer, unadulterated joy of being alive at any age.

Don’t forget to follow / subscribe to the podcast for FREE on your podcast app of choice, or play it directly from the website: www.retirementrebel.co.uk

Key Points:

04:29 Riding a million meters, grief, reinvention.

07:46 Elderly need vibrant and practical products.

12:29 Defying age limits, inspiring women to succeed.

16:19 Encouraging women to try new activities. Leadership.

19:14 Short, precious life. Pursue dreams and skateboard goals.

22:41 Finding joy and calm in everyday moments.

24:13 Encourages others and pays back kindness received.

29:48 Celebrating life, wisdom, and natural ageing gracefully.

31:06 Ageism perpetuates negative attitudes towards growing older.

34:16 Intergenerational dialogue to bridge understanding gaps.

39:10 Unexpected encounter while leaving a skateboard shop at Christmas.

41:23 Joy and inspiration at 60.

Guest Info

Jo Moseley is a dynamic bestselling author, award-winning filmmaker, engaging speaker, podcaster, and creative freelancer. Celebrated for her insights into aging gracefully, adventure, solo travel, and making meaningful changes, Jo's work radiates positivity and empowerment. Her debut bestselling book, "Stand Up Paddleboarding in Great Britain," has inspired countless individuals to explore the UK's waters.

Beyond writing, Jo crafts authentic, impactful campaigns for clients like Inghams Walking and Lovat Parks, sharing their stories with creativity and passion. Her speaking engagements span from adventure festivals to the Royal Geographic Society, captivating audiences with her stories of courage and fresh starts.

Jo's filmmaking prowess is showcased in her award-winning films "Found at Sea" and "Finding Joy," highlighting the joy and wellness the outdoors brings. Her story is further celebrated in "Brave Enough - A Journey Home to Joy," a film by Frit Tam.

Committed to philanthropy, Jo has embarked on various challenges, including a 162-mile paddle boarding journey for charity and climbing "Everest" in her backyard for the Skipton Foodbank. As an ambassador for Seaful Charity and Patron of The National Women's Register, she's a beacon of hope, advocating that it's never too late for adventure or to make a difference.

Discover more about Jo's adventures and projects at https://www.jomoseley.com/, where she continues to share her belief in the power of embracing life's journeys, regardless of age.

Links and Resources:

• Jo Moseley's book on paddleboarding
• Jo Moseley's upcoming book about the Lake District
• Online screenings of Jo Moseley and Frit Tam's film
• Jo Social Media

Quotes:

 "Keep your mouth shut. You don't need to comment on a woman's ability to do something. It's not a requirement."

 "I'm a bit afraid and I'm going to do it anyway, and I'm just going to see how it goes and test my limits and go out of my comfort zone."

 "Have I done enough? Have I contributed enough? Have I failed myself? Have I failed my family? You think of all these questions and so rather than just say, oh, it's all going to be fine, and dismissing any questions, it's like you want to explore them and say, I'm not the only one that wakes up and thinks, damn, I never became an astronaut."

If you enjoy the show, then please consider giving us a review; it would mean the world to me and will help others make informed decisions to give the show a try. 

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Website: www.retirementrebel.co.uk

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Instagram: Matt - Producer

Podcast Production: www.kult.media

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Copyright 2024 Siobhan Daniels

On today's show, we're speaking to Joe Mosley, who's a solo adventurer, author and filmmaker who finds the joy in living. We spoke about the importance of living in the present, enjoying what life has to offer you as you get older and finding those pockets of joy. She reflected on times in her forty? S and fifty s when she struggled, and how when she was younger, she never envisaged her life like that. And we chatted about when she was at her lowest, how she managed to turn things around with paddleboarding adventures, writing a book and making a film. She now says she feels excited about hitting 60 and seeing what's in store for her. Before we get started, though, can I ask that you give us a follow on your podcast app or Instagram? Now let's get on with the podcast. Welcome to retirement. Rebel Life after 60.

I'm your host, Siobhan Daniels. Join me on a journey to meet inspiring rebels who've redefined retirement. Together, we'll explore new passions, triumphs over challenges, and discover the vibrant possibilities of life after 60. This is about living boldly, not just ageing. So, are you ready to rebel? Last week I spoke to Barbara Scully, journalist, broadcaster and author of Wise up, who unravelled harmful attitudes towards ageing. We agreed that ageism is at crisis point in society and that things do need to change if we're to have more fulfilling lives as we get older. If you haven't already, give it a listen. Welcome, Jo.

Oh, thank you, Siobhan. I am so excited.

Well, I mean, our paths have crossed many times, haven't they? At the Kendall Mountain Festival and we both spoke together at the Wild Writers Festival.

Yeah.

You're someone who loves to find the joy in life. Why is that important to you?

I just think that we need to live very much in the present. We spend our lives thinking about the past or the future, but finding joy in the present just makes the most of every day. And we only have one life as far as we know, and just to make the most of every day as much as we can, and just to find little pockets of joy wherever possible.

Now, our paths have crossed many times, haven't they? We've both got the same publisher. I spoke to you, I think, first of all, was it about three years ago in lockdown when I started doing some Instagram lives?

Yeah. Amazing. The last three years, they've both flown by, but also, we've both packed quite a lot in, haven't we?

And we've both met an awful lot of strong, adventurous, positive living women, haven't we, in our lives?

Yeah, I think we both sort of seek them out and also kind of attract them in a way. And yeah, they've all contributed to our lives. And I have a little saying. We rise by lifting others. And I truly believe that of this generation that we do do that as we're sort of progressing forward in our lives, we are lifting each other and inspiring each other.

Well, you've definitely been a support to me along the way as I've been a pro age campaigner and trying to forge my path and getting people to hear. And I love the way that you are embracing getting older because that's what I'm all about, giving that positive ageing message, stopping women from self limiting and stopping them from losing themselves when they midlife. We often find difficult situations. I know I was broken in my mid 50s for the menopause death of relatives struggling in the workplace. You yourself had a difficult period, didn't you, when you were in your mid fifty s and that's when you needed to find some joy in your life. Just take me back to that period.

Yeah. So for me it was mainly in my late forty s and my 50s have been really good, but my 40s weren't so great. So for me it was my late forty s. I was divorced, single mum, just trying to keep everything going. Mum and dad were both having chemotherapy, my mum died and the menopause and it all just hit at the same time. And so, yeah, it was a really dark time for me. Very sad, which is why I like to look for joy, because when you've been sad and broken, I think you relish and cherish the joy even more because you know how special it is. So, yeah, it was a really difficult time.

And then through a variety of things, like a rowing challenge. Once mum had died, I raised a lot of money for Macmillan cancer support in her name and I just started to rebuild myself.

What was that challenge?

So it was ten years ago this year I rode a million metres, two half marathons and a marathon. And I did all that on a rowing machine. So a million metres is sort of like from Paris to Edinburgh over a period of months. The marathon was on one day and I did all that really to work through my grief and to raise money in Mum's memory. And then I just was really rebuilding myself and had been really since my late 40s, mid to late forty s. And then my 50s came and it was like, right, what else can I do? And meeting other inspiring people and women and just sort of following their lead, really. And I think my impression was that in your fifty s everything would be settled and life would be sorted. But for me, it was reinventing, rewriting a story for me.

And now I feel, coming to the end of my 50s, what's the next chapter? That I would kind of want to write for myself.

Do you think a lot of women, though, in their 50s, feel that it is a time for them to reinvent themselves as they're approaching their 60s? Because I know when I was in my fifty s, I thought this was almost like the beginning of the end. I had no idea that life was going to be as good as it is now approaching 65. And do you think a lot of women find themselves in that place? And how did you feel?

Yeah, I think we're led to believe that by our 50, well, certainly growing up, that by your fifty s, sixty s, life would be so settled and you would just kind of go on this trajectory, but it would be a trajectory of decline. Sort of like you reached your peak in your forty s and it was downhill, whereas it was really downhill. In my late forty s, I couldn't really go any further, so I had to rebuild. And now I'm kind of going upwards to the top of the hill, and there's still more peaks to climb, so to speak. But I think it is easy. The media sort of gives up a lot on women in their forty s and fifty s. It's very easy to mock them. It's very easy.

Sixty s?

Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, I think I thought my 60s would just be sort of. I don't know, I never even imagined what they would be like because they were just a blank. Like, why would I have vibrancy or interest or. Dude, it would just be like a blank time. Or it would still be very much a time of giving. Giving. And I think this generation is saying, okay, we've given, given.

Maybe it's time to take a little energy back for ourselves and a little space for ourselves and look at our dreams. But from what I can see as I go on, that there's generation sort of people like you are just kind of reinventing what it means to be 60. And I think I always thought that sixty s and seventy s were this very. Everybody was very similar and very beige. But the more I researched, the more I realised how different everybody is and were lumped together by the media as over 40, over 50, over 60. But the diversity within it of how men and women are leading their lives is so interesting. It's like everybody's doing so many different things, following conventional past, following less conventional past. And I find it absolutely fascinating.

I work with women and men in their sixty s, seventy s and eighty s in my day job, and I find it incredibly fascinating.

I love it there. When you say about the beige, because one of the things that I shout from the rooftops is when you retire, you refire. But I also say when you age, you don't be age, you don't fade into the background. And I do find a lot of things for older people. Clothing, a lot of clothing. It just suddenly becomes doubt. It is getting better, but it's still got a long way to go. And I also think when people need things in their house, maybe to help them get in and out the shower or handles, when they're sort of trying to get up steps, if they become a little bit infirm, when they're ageing, they're all greys and browns and creams, and you think, come on, where's the vibrant colours? Where's the imagination? We don't have to live in an environment like that.

But take me back now to when you actually rediscovered something as you were getting older, didn't you? Paddleboarding, and you had an amazing adventure. Yeah.

So in 2016, I had my first paddleboarding lesson. I'd injured myself, and as I was recovering, I took this first lesson on Derwent water. And I know it's a phrase that you often use in terms of being a warrior woman. And for the first time in months, I said I felt like a worrier, not a worrier. And worrying is my natural default mode and always has been as a little girl and as a woman. And so, yeah, 2016. And then in 2019, I became the first woman to Paddleboard, coast to coast, across the country, raising money, picking up litter. That led to a podcast, it led to two little films I made, it led to a feature film, it led to my first book and then my second book.

So one little thing changed my life.

Gosh, you rushed through all that. You rushed through all that, though, then it's major achievements. I mean, you paddleboarded all that way. There must have been some highs and lows when you were actually doing it. And what kind of emotions did you go through? And did you ever think, do you know, maybe I'm too old to be doing this?

Yeah, no, I did. And I was told I was too old. I mean, that was the thing back in 2016 when I had the idea and I told a few people, I was told that it would be logistically too difficult, it would be complex, but it would also be too difficult for me. And I was only coming up to 52 at the time and instead of going as I would do now. Well, yeah, whatever, mate. Thanks for your opinion, which I would do now, but at the time I was like, yeah, maybe they're right, maybe I am too old. Maybe I can't do this. Because it was something that only one person had done, a friend of mine, Jason, and the message was still very much that these sorts of things were beyond us.

And what did I feel on the journey? All the feelings, all the feelings, excitement, joy, worry, tears, facing emotions on the canal that you sort of have a bit buried and wondering, is this possible? Can I do it? Have I got the strength? And then even on the canal, I remember, I think I was about 80 miles in and somebody said, where have you come from? And I said, liverpool. And he went, yeah, in your dreams. You know what I mean? I've done this and you're still questioning me. And I guess that just. And at the time, and in the film, brave enough, I sort of joke and say, oh, I don't think they think I can do it, but now I think my answer would be, that's just wrong. Why does somebody feel that they can question somebody trying to fulfil their dream? Keep your mouth shut. You don't need to comment on a woman's ability to do something. It's not a requirement.

Yeah. All the feel and then just feeling very pleased that I had accomplished it. We'd raised money, my dad was there. It was an emotional time, really, and it just sort of made me realise that I was probably braver than I thought. I mean, I think we've discussed this, that we've both been through times when life has forced us to be brave. Work situations, breakup of relationships, being single parents, going through the menopause and life has forced us to be brave. But sometimes there's also a time like this was, which was, I'm going to choose to be brave. I'm going to choose to go out there and do something like you've done, like you've gone off Endora, the explorer.

You've chosen to do that. You've chosen to write about it, to podcast about it. And those are times when people can take potshots at you, but you realise, actually, I can do this. And if I can be brave enough to do this, what else can I be brave enough to do? And it just builds up. It's like a muscle, isn't it. Courage is a bit like a muscle.

Yeah. You said there that you were told at some stage that you're too old. Do you think the fact that that is prevalent in society, that a lot of people are told, oh, you can't do that, you're too old to do that, that it makes us begin to be fearful and begin to self limit far too early on in our lives. And I think women like you and I, hopefully, are showing other women, get out there, have your adventure, go and do it, because it is possible and you feel so alive. I mean, I found my courage because I was not going to accept the cards that I could see that society seemed to be handing me. I thought to myself, no, I want to go out there and forge my own path and find my happiness and show that it can be done. But I was really frightened at the time. I remember I didn't show it so much, but inside I was really frightened because I didn't know where I was going.

But I found my courage. And I'm saying to other women, if you feel as low as that, then go for it, and that's exactly what you do.

Yeah. It's not a case of not being afraid. I mean, obviously, I'm not talking in terms of physical things, but it's a case of not saying I'm not afraid. I'm going to do it, saying I am a bit afraid and I'm going to do it anyway, and I'm just going to see how it goes and test my limits and go out of my comfort zone. And I'm not saying that we all have to do mega scary things or big challenges or change our lives, but just slightly pushing the boundaries and overturning that built in ageism, which says, I'm too old, I can't do. I mean, the number of young women I see on Instagram and social media sort of saying, I'm 37, I'm just a bit too old for this. And I'm like, oh, you're really not. Oh, my gosh, I'm starting this and I'm 37, and I'm like, yeah, go for it.

Whether they listen to me or not, I have no idea. But I think we do just need to keep encouraging each other that we can do more than we think we can.

How was your film brave enough received? And was it sort of shown to older women and younger women across the board?

Yeah. So it was in lockdown that the film came out. So the director, Frit Tam and I, we did online screenings, and I think we had one industry and four sellout online. And there were people of all ages, to be honest. And then film festivals like Kendall, which is such a prestigious place for it to be filmed, to be screened. There were men and women in the audience. I think I get a lot of feedback from women in their forty s, fifty s and sixty s definitely do. Just saying, gosh, I can really recognise myself.

Whether that's because we talk about the menopause or divorce or being a single parent or motherhood miscarriages, I talk about a lot of things which those women are sort of touch points, but then I also get a lot of men saying, wow, I understand my wife a bit better. I'm a bit more thoughtful about that. You're like my mom, I get a lot of that. You're just like my mom. My mum would like you or whatever. So I think all ages, obviously the 40, 50 think definitely it really spoke to them, but then a more diverse audience as well. So, yeah, we were really pleased.

Yeah, I find a lot of the youngsters that I come up against and they say you're like my mum, kind of thing, but they also love the fact that I'm being so vibrant and out there and having my adventures and facing my fears and being honest about the highs and the lows. They say, I'm going to go back, I'm going to tell my mum, she's got to read your book retirement rebel. I want her to do. A lot of younger people want their parents to live their life to the full, don't they? And I think it kind of makes them sad when they see they're not grabbing life.

Yeah, I do. It is always really nice when they sort of say, oh, I'm going to tell my mum and she's going to take a paddleboarding lesson or she's going to go swim in the sea or she's going to go for. Go camping or whatever. And I just sort of feel like, wow, that's just a lovely little thing that maybe I've just encouraged someone to do something that maybe she wouldn't have thought of doing. And that's always what I want to do is just. I think I'm very much at that sort of messages from people who aren't doing something to people who do something for the first time. I'm not the elite, I'm not the endurance, but I'm very much encouraging women who've not done something to be that bridge to help them do something. And I think that's where my kind of strength lies.

Yeah, it is always really lovely when they say, oh, my mum took a paddleboarding lesson because of you. And you're like, oh, thank you.

Talking about doing things for the first time, I've noticed on your social media that you're doing something for the first time. And I think it's incredible.

Skateboarding. Skateboarding. So, yeah, I've always wanted to skateboard. I mean, I don't know about you, but my brother had a skate. He was a couple of years younger than me. He had a skateboard. And I tried it, but never really had any lesson. When I was like, 1112, never had any lessons.

My son's got tiny little penny boards about 1011 years ago, but they were tiny, tiny. So I've approached it in a really kind of nerdy way, which is, I'm having lessons, I bought a book, I've got an online course, I'm going on retreats. I think it's brilliant nerding out on skateboarding because obviously safety is a factor. When you bounce as a toddler, you bounce. I don't know how I was talking to someone, I said, how many times do you think a toddler falls down in a day? We're like 100, 200. And they go, oops and bounce up. When you fall at 59, it might not be.

You're not quite as bouncy.

So I am taking it really seriously in terms of the safety. I'm, like, completely padded up.

Did you say you're going on a retreat?

Yeah, I'm going on a retreat in the woods in October.

Just think it's incredible. When I saw you with all the kit on, having your first lesson, when you showed up, I just thought, how brave, how wonderful. You're just such a great inspiration for women. It's the last thing. I mean, I think I'm pioneering, but it's the last thing I would have thought, know. And I did find myself thinking, oh, I'd be too old. And I thought, stop it, Siobhan.

You're probably just a bit more sensible than me, but no, it's something always wanted to do. Yeah. No, you're not. It's something I've always wanted to do. And I think we all know this time is precious. And I think with my day job, I work for a church. I'm a parish administrator. I look after people who are getting married and having baptisms, but also funerals and death is a part of life.

And I just think that life is just very short and precious. And if you have a dream, you should try it. And I've always had a dream that I would like to learn to skateboard and very much on my terms. I'm not going to be doing the funky flips and all this stuff and I'm just going to. I have my own goals and that's what I want to achieve and it's a really lovely community. My instructor's been away in America and I'm super excited that he's coming back. And then I'm going to book my lessons again and know, doing little practising and it's just a lovely, lovely thing to do. And what really surprised me when I went to the skateboard shop in Leeds and I just walked in, I thought, oh, my God.

And these kind of like, kids know, baggy jeans and tattoos and all this kind of look and baseball caps kind of looked at me. I was like, they're just going to laugh at me. And they just smiled and they were so nice. And the stuff in the shop was so nice. And then this woman came up to me and she was with her son and she said, who are you buying the skateboard for? And I went, me? And she went, wow, so where'd you go? And I went, Ella. And she said, I take my son there. I said, well, maybe you could have a lesson. Then she went, maybe I could.

And I just thought, well, she will. And the kids at the skate park are so sweet and like the little eight year olds are like, no, you need to do this. And then the older men come up and they say, okay, let me teach. And they're so nice. And honestly, these kids just look so cool that in the past I might have thought, oh God, they're just going to laugh at me. They just looked and they're like, oh no, that's what you need to look at. Oh no, that comes with that. Or oh no, that's this, mate.

And they were like teaching me in this shop and just smiled at me. Just literally smiled at me. And I felt so welcome.

I can feel the joy from you as you're doing it.

Yeah, it is. It's just really nice. I think I love being a beginner. I think that's where I'm really good at things. I love being a beginner. I love learning and that's kind of what I approach my 60s with. I want to learn how to be 60. And you're giving people that chance to say, oh, I could be this in my sixty s.

I think when I envisage all the me listening to all your podcasts over the next few months, it's like, oh, God, that's a good idea. Oh, I could take a little bit from each of them and like a recipe and make it because we're not all the same. I think that is what your podcast is going to show, is that being 60 is not one way. There are so many different ways you can be 60. And I want to learn from all your guests, so I'm excited.

Oh, thank you. But also, you're doing sort of like a countdown to being 60, aren't you? I've been looking on yourself. You're upside down all the time. What's that about?

So when I had Covid last year, I had Covid and I just injured my ribs, so I was just feeling a bit grim, really. And I thought, I need something little. I'm very good at having little things just to keep my joy topped up each day. And so I thought, well, I'll do a headstand a day until I'm 60. And I do it and I share it on my social media and just on my little stories and market. And now what I'm also doing is using it as a diary. So it's like it's done of the day. The 20 January.

It was really windy on the beach, or it was quite snowy in the garden, or I went to my special place. So I've got like a little record and I really take these moments just to breathe and just completely live in the moment. Like, what can I see upside down? And am I calm and am I getting a bit stronger? And sometimes it's just like, oh, I didn't realise I forgot to bring a hat. So my head's covered in mud or whatever, but it's just a joyful little thing. And it is leading me up to being so I'm 60 at the end of this year and it's just like, I want to arrive at 60. Quite joyful. And this is just a nice way to count down, really.

I think it's brilliant. I know. When I first saw you posting them, it made me think to myself, do you know what? I haven't done a handstand for years. So I put my camera up and I went to film it just to show you that I was useless and I was going to corpse. And I surprised myself. I actually managed to do one, but I tell you, one was enough. I wouldn't be doing one every day.

One was great. In fact, recently I did one just before I went for a swim and I had my pyjamas on, on the beach, which was a bit funny, but yeah, I'm sure people were like, why is she doing in her pyjamas?

But one of the things that I like about you as well as you're doing all your adventures and finding the joy in your life is you give back a lot. And it's important for you to give back, isn't it? In what ways do you give back?

I guess I do like encouraging other people. I get a lot of DMS where someone saying, how do I do this? How do I do that? I always try and really pay attention when people ask me questions and support other people and say, look, this person's doing this and they're great. I guess it all just comes back to those times in life which we all know, which I'm sure your listeners know. And I know, you know and I know, I know when you felt very lonely and very sad and very broken, and you just wish somebody would have put their arm around you and say, it's going to be okay. And if I can do that in a small way, then I'm paying back for the people that did that to me. And often they were strangers as well. They were women in supermarkets who said, I don't know why you're crying, but whatever it is, it's going to get better. And I guess I'm just paying that back, all that kindness back, and knowing that behind those masks that we all have, which are like, yeah, no, everything's fine.

It's really great, actually. There's a lot of people that are struggling and you just want to say it's going to be okay. I don't know what you're going through, and it might be a while before it's okay. And I'm not having toxic positivity or anything, but it will be okay. It can get better. You're not alone. And that's what I try and do, really in a small, small way.

And I also think it's so important for people to talk. You said about having the mask. I had the mask. I went around trying to pretend that everything was fine as I was getting worse and worse and not coping with life. And I think one of the reasons I'm doing this podcast is to have this platform, and hopefully women will listen to it, and then they will talk with their friends, and then they will open up more about exactly what's happening to them. If they're facing ageism, or if they're struggling, approaching 60 or being in their 60s, then they can talk to one another, because I don't think we talk positively about ageing as much as we should do.

No, I don't think we do. And I don't want to be like, oh, there are things about becoming 60 that I'm like, oh, my gosh. Wow. How did that happen? Where did the last 40 years go? Have I done enough? Have I contributed enough? Have I failed myself? Have I failed my fat? You think of all these questions and so rather than just say, oh, it's all going to be fine, and dismissing any questions, it's like you want to explore them and say, I'm not the only one that wakes up and thinks, damn, I never became an astronaut. When I forget to do that. There are things which, I mean, I would never be an astronaut because I'm quite scared of heights. But there are things that you realise it's probably not going to happen, however big you dream. I'm probably not like, I always thought I'd have this really long, happy marriage.

Unless I get married tomorrow, which is very unlikely, I'm not going to have a 40 or 50 year old marriage that I can look back on. So it's like sometimes you have to reconcile yourself to maybe not happening, but what else can you still do? It's reconciling and accepting some limitations, but also breaking through other limitations as well.

Well, I think you get a lot of limitations. I did when I was going through the menopause, because my body was sort of letting me down and my mind and I didn't feel right and you begin to think, oh, my goodness, is this it? Am I ever going to be able to be as physically active as I was? And actually, once I got through that, the other side, I would honestly say, for me, this is the best phase of my life.

Yeah. Because also, I think we recognise we have to look after ourselves. And I think the menopause forced me to start looking after myself. But then you do and you realise that, yeah, there are limitations. You might do a workout and you might need more recovery time or whatever, but you can build it into your life and look after yourself. And you have, I have seen on your social media, kind of like you glowing sometimes. I'm like, what, Shivon? What are you? And partly I think it is an internal thing. Partly I think it is you are up in Norman, Scotland, and it is the sunshine on your face and you are just glowing from joy.

But also partly because you're looking after yourself. And I think women do grow into themselves, don't they? I think there's a real. I love looking at those things. Where they have actresses like in her twenty s, thirty s, forty s, fifty s, sixty s. And I think the beauty comes through in some of the women in their sixty s. And you're like, God, the beauty is just glowing out of your face. Because they're so settled in who they are. Not settled compromise, but just settled and accepting and then exploring different things.

They're not trying to be anyone except themselves. And I think that's just amazing. And that's what I aspire to be.

Really talking about, the beauty. I think that we need to start rethinking the way we think of beauty and what is beautiful. Because like you, I love to see older women's faces where they've really lived. You look into their eyes, they're alive, they're glowing, their smile radiates. And yet everybody seems to have this obsession with antiaging and it drives me bonkers.

Yeah, I just don't understand, because why would you be anti the opportunity to keep living longer, it's natural part of life. And why would you be anti the process of having more time on this earth being with people that you love? I saw a little video of Julianne Moore and Annette Benning and they were just looking so lovely and I kind of put it on my stories and I think what was lovely was you saw Annette Benning's sort of wrinkles and a little bit of wrinkle on her cheek. And it really reminded me of what my mum had looked like sort of in her early sixty s. And I just thought, these women have all lived their lives, they've got a beautiful friendship here and yeah, let's celebrate that. Let's celebrate all that we have been through and all the wisdom that we have accumulated. I'm not saying that all older people are naturally wise, but many of us have gained some wisdom at some point through some really difficult times. So yeah, definitely. I'm not really into that whole trying to look younger.

Do you think ageism that is prevalent in society? Well, in the world, the World Health Organisation has got campaigns to try and combat ageism. Do you think that plays into the fact that we struggle to age more naturally?

Yeah, because I think that looking older is often seen as a derogatory thing. It's your old woman. It's a way to put someone down rather than to celebrate them and to celebrate the wisdom and the lives that they've led. And so you keep hearing that and so it makes you shrink a little bit sometimes when people say that and you think, oh yeah, maybe I shouldn't do that. Maybe I should just be invisible. And I think there are all sorts of ways that we just hear it, either from advertising or newspaper articles or how sometimes the media pitch generations against generation, like maybe in the housing market or whatever, and it's like, well, do you not think we have, some of us have children? And it sort of goes, oh, I'm a boomer by five days. So I think I'm more of a Gen X than a boomer, but it's like they pit generations. I was very much a Gen X baby in terms of how I was brought up and certainly financially, I'm not a boomer.

But I do think the media sometimes pits people against each other, generations against each other, and we really shouldn't do that because we're all just trying to get along in our own sweet way and look after each other and look after the planet, hopefully. So, yeah, there's a lot of messaging that we, oh, you look good for your age, rather than, oh, you look great today, or you look well today, whatever. I hate all that stuff. Hate it. It's just so.

But in your skateboarding, you're hanging out with, like you say, people of all ages, and I think we need to encourage that to happen more. Maybe not skateboarding for me, but if we did, I really want to do sort of intergenerational dinner parties so you can talk to the young people and think, what do they think about getting to 60? What do they think it's going to be like in their sixty s? And then for the older people to say, well, this is what it's like in our how can we work together to change it so that we can all live our best lives possible every single day and age as positively as we can. But like you say, I do agree there's too much pitting against each other for the generations, but we need to talk.

I think sometimes younger generations maybe don't realise that women of my generation, our generation, couldn't buy houses without a man's signature or get credit cards or all these things. And these aren't things that happened centuries ago, these are in our lifetime. There are women whose careers and opportunities to express themselves professionally were really curtailed, or their financial decisions or divorce laws and where children went. These are things that women have really had to and men have had to fight for in different generations. And I think if we could explain some of that and then the younger generations could explain to us what they see about things. I mean, I love having conversations with my sons who are in their twenty s and I'm like, I don't get that. And then they'll explain something and I'll go, oh, okay. And these are the boys I raised.

I mean, you must have that with Sammy.

No, I agree with you totally, because it's the same with my daughter. We're able to talk about things and I'll say something, and she's quite shocked because of my attitude towards it. And then she will explain something to me about what she thinks about ageism and comments that I will pull people up on. And I just see things from a different perspective when I talk to her. And I think that's very important. And hopefully I get her sometimes to see things from a different perspective. But I do think I'm determined to, following on from the podcast, to try and do something with dinner parties and get the generations together so that we can just forge a way forward and be happy and find the joy.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It was so funny. Just a little snippet. When I was at the skateboard, this little boy said, do you want an opal fruit? And I was like, no, I'm really good, thank you. And he went, no, I insist you have an opal fruit. And then I was doing something and he came up to me and he goes, no, you need to do it like this. And I was like, but I'm trying.

And he's like, try harder.

You're joking.

This is really hard for me and I'm quite scared that I'm going to pour. He was just like, just do it. Literally. And then his mom came up and she was just like, yeah, leave the lady alone. I was like, no, it's really helpful. And he was some really good tips. But it was so natural to him. He was like, you'll just fall, it'll be okay.

And just have another opal fruit. And I was like, no, really, my teeth can't take anymore.

Opal fruits solve everything.

Yes, I insist you have a suite. And then there was like 16 year old boys, because you can do scooters as well. And honestly, they were going down the ramp up, twisting and jumping, and I was just like, looking at them, it was like watching a television programme. And I was like, no, you go first. And they were just so lovely. And so it was just really fun. And I can't wait for him to get back, and then I can have.

Yeah, but the thing I'm noticing when you're talking about it is how you become so joyful and you're radiating joy and you almost become even more alive than you are hopefully people that are listening to this. You never know. You might get some more skateboarding pals taking to it as they're in their 60s, but certainly not me. It won't be me. What would you say to anybody that maybe would want to do skateboarding? Paddleboarding? Anything. Any adventure in their sixty s?

I would say definitely give it a go, but I would definitely say get a lesson. Definitely. With paddleboarding. That's always in my books. Get a lesson, get a lesson. Meet other people. Start small and be a beginner. Unleash that in a beginner.

Just don't feel. I think one of the things that happens naturally as you get older is you worry less what people think. I think that's a natural thing. I spend a lot of my life trying to please people and then realise that I could do everything to please them and they still wouldn't be pleased. And so I think one of the greatest gifts of getting older is you just don't worry what other people think of you anymore, or as much. So I would just say, just do it if you want to. Just try it. Take a lesson completely.

Get all your safety kit, both in paddleboarding and skating, and just find people that will cheerlead you and be a beginner and don't be afraid to fail. I think that is another benefit of getting older, is not being afraid to fail anymore because you think, well, I've only got one chance at this life thing, as far as we know, so I'm just going to have a go. And if I fail, well, I have tried, at least just try and know that there are loads of other people that are out there doing it as well. And a lot of people cheering you on. A lot of people.

When I feel fearful, I really push myself and I just think, what's the worst that can happen? What's the worst that can happen? And I try and break it down in my mind. And like you say, I've got more confident as I've got older and I've got more. I don't really care what people think. I used to be desperate for everybody to like me and everybody to think that I was doing the best. So I'd try too hard. Many times I tried too hard and then I had this overwhelming sense of disappointment in life. And I think now I'm just going for it and actually finding so much more joy. But I ask all my guests one question.

Yeah, and I've got to ask you this, but I think I know the answer, actually, but it's. When was the last time that you felt like a rebel, I guess most.

Recently would be going into the skate park and going into the skateboard shop and thinking, this is not what people expect. And I remember coming out of the skateboard shop with a skateboard under my arm, and it was Christmas time, so it's between Christmas and New Year. And this guy came up to me and I thought, oh, God, what's he going to say? I think he was a bit drunk. I was like, oh, you know, in the middle of Leeds, what's he going to say? And he goes, you're going to skateboard that home. I bet you'd be able to do it. And I was like, oh, thank you so much. And I was like, no, I really wouldn't. But, yeah, I was like, oh, thank God.

I'm not a very rebellious person because I do like to follow the rules quite a lot. But I do think that was just. It was saying to myself that the little girl who was ten and eleven, who would have loved to have done this, I'm kind of honouring. I know it sounds a bit woo woo, but I'm kind of honouring that little girl's dream. And that's not what you expect of people at all, really. Not what you expect for a woman approaching her 60s. But I only have one chance at this and I just want to have a go. And we'll see, we'll see.

As I keep practising, I, for one.

Love seeing this rebellious side of you, and I can't wait to see how you progress on your skateboard. And I'm thrilled to have been able to speak to you on the podcast. So if anybody wants to get your book, where can they get it from? And what's the name of your book? And if they want to keep in touch with you.

Thank you. So, my first book, which is behind me, is called stand up paddleboarding in Great Britain. And I have a new book coming out in May. I guess writing two books about paddleboarding is quite rebellious, too. So that's coming out May, and that's paddleboarding in the Lake district. So that will be again with Vertebrae, who are both our publishers. And I'm Joe Mosley on Instagram jomoseley. And my website is jomosley.com.

So super simple. And books available from all good publishers, all good bookshops and obviously online.

And having your second book out when you're 60, in your 60s, what a great way to start your sixty s. And thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

Well, thank you, Siobhan. Thank you. Bye bye bye.

I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Joe Mosley just as much as I did. What I took away from our time talking together was that Joe really sees the joy in life. She's doing all she can to see the positives that can come with being 60 as well. And contrary to what a lot of people think about ageing, she sees her next decade as potentially the best time of her life. And that's exactly what I hoped this podcast would enable others to feel in their sixty s, seventy s, eighty s and beyond. We agreed that even if we're afraid, we do need to tackle new things as we get older. Jo's just taken up skateboarding as she's approaching 60, which I think is marvellous and inspirational. It's not my thing, but maybe I too will be inspired to push myself a bit more and find new challenges in my mid 60s.

Next week I'll be speaking to Sarah Barnes. She's a wonderful Yorkshire woman in her 60s whose life took on new meaning after major surgery. She's also the author of two books and an avid cold water swimmer. Thank you so much for joining me on today's retirement rebel life after 60. I'm truly grateful for your time and your willingness to embark on this journey with me. If today's conversation sparks something within you, or if you've your own rebel story to share, I'd love to hear from you. Please reach out through our social media channels or email and let's keep the conversation going. Email us on podcast at retirementrebel Co.

UK and remember, if you found value in our time together today, consider sharing this episode with a friend who might also enjoy and benefit from our retirement rebel community. Spreading the word helps us grow and continue to challenge the narrative around life after 60. All of our details can be found on RetirementRebel Co. UK. Retirement Rebel Life after 60 is written and hosted by me, Siobhan Daniels and produced by the incredibly talented Matt Cheney. Join me again next week for another episode. Until then, keep embracing your inner rebel and living life to the fullest. Bye for now.