What if pursuing what is lovely could transform every part of your life?

In this inspiring episode of The Collide Podcast, we sit down with Jenn Johnson to explore her journey as a worship leader, songwriter, author, and mom. Jenn shares about her early love for music, how her faith became her own, and the stories behind some of her most beloved songs, including a personal love song written to Jesus. She also talks about her book All Things Lovely and how choosing what is true, pure, and praiseworthy can impact your home, heart, health, and hospitality. Whether you’re navigating your own spiritual journey, creative pursuits, or family life, this episode will encourage you to live more intentionally and beautifully.

Meet Jenn Johnson

Jenn Johnson is an American worship leader, songwriter, speaker, and author, best known as the co-founder and President of Bethel Music and its Worship School in Redding, California. Alongside her husband, Brian Johnson, she serves as senior worship pastor at Bethel Church. Jenn has co-written songs that are sung worldwide, including Goodness of God, You’re Gonna Be OK, and God I Look to You. She is also the author of All Things Lovely and founder of the lifestyle brand Lovely by Jenn Johnson, which inspires women toward holistic health and intentional living. Jenn and Brian live in Redding with their five children, including two adopted children who inspired some of her songwriting.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn

• Jenn’s musical roots and early dreams of worship
• How her faith became her own and shaped her life and ministry
• The inspiration and core message behind her book All Things Lovely
• Her favorite love song written to Jesus and what it reveals about worship
• Practical ways to pursue beauty, wholeness, and grace in your home, heart, health, and hospitality

How This Episode Will Encourage You

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by busyness, perfectionism, or the demands of life, this episode will inspire you to slow down, embrace what is lovely, and cultivate intentional rhythms. You’ll be reminded that worship isn’t just about music—it’s a lifestyle of beauty, gratitude, and wholehearted devotion to God.

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Connect with Jenn - Website | Spotify | All Things Lovely Book

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Hey there. Welcome to the Collide Podcast. This is Willow Weston. So glad that I get to hang out with you today.

Hey, if you ever turn your radio on to Christian worship music or when you go to church, I am positive you've probably heard our guest's songs.

The goodness of God. You're gonna be okay. God, I look to you. These are all songs that have been sung and written by Jen Johnson.

And she's also the co founder of Bethel Music.

And I gotta have a conversation with her today where we talked about all things from her dreams as a little girl all the way to her dreams right now and everything in between. You're gonna wanna listen to this interview. Check. Well, Jen, you do a million things.

You are a worship leader, songwriter, speaker, author, co founder and president of Bethel Music and sing some of my very favorite worship songs of all time. And there's so many things I want to ask you, but I just have to say I'm so impressed.

You're hopping on here sick today and you could be sleeping, but here you are. Oh, my goodness. Thank you for.

I don't like to cancel. Well, I sound like a little bit of a frog, but. Ribbit, ribbit.

You sound great.

As I was thinking about our time together today, there's so many things I want to ask you, but one thing that I thought was really interesting is that you started getting involved in music at a very young age. And I'm curious what the little girl in you dreamed to do.

You know, I started singing when I was. I mean, it's probably two years old. You know, my mom is a piano player, was for church, and my dad sang specials for church.

And I grew up in church surrounded by music and, you know, worship team rehearsals and just all the things like that. We had worship in our house with our Bible study that my parents hosted. So I just grew up all around it.

I think I sang my first solo at a women's aglow meeting when I was five years old. So I've just kind of always been around it. But I think when I was little, I just wanted to be a mom and I wanted to lead worship.

And when I kind of got older and in junior high, high school, I was going towards being a preschool teacher in college and an aerobics instructor because I figured I'm going to be a healthy queen and why not have people pay me to watch me work out? That sounds genius. I never.

Oh, my gosh.

I never fulfilled that calling. But I love it because my daughter now has become a Pilates Instructor, so she's taking the reins of that genius.

That's so awesome. I would pay people to not watch me work out, so that's so funny. Well, your dream came true. You're a mom of five kiddos.

Yeah. We have a tribe. We're rolling deep.

Yeah. For. For real. I want to talk about that as well. But I'm curious.

In your experience growing up, you grew up in the church, and you're surrounded by people who love Jesus and serve Jesus. When did Jesus become real to you?

Like, do you have a moment where we talk a lot about colliding around here, that Jesus, you know, crashes into your life, and there's, like, a moment where things shift and change in a pretty transformative way?

Did you have an experience where God really became real to you, or do you feel like you were given faith from a really early age and he's just always been. Been there?

I think it's definitely both.

I have just known Jesus and walk with Jesus my entire life and, you know, going from just probably re giving my life to Jesus multiple times as a kid, you know, But I think that my first memorable encounter with God was when I was about 10 or 12 years old, when I was like, wow, God is real.

And this moment happened when I was outside playing basketball, and I just kind of said this stupid little thing of like, God, if you're real, make that streetlight blink three times.

You know, and the streetlight blinked three times, and I just remember dropping the basketball and, like, running in the house to my mom, like, oh, my gosh. And my mom's like, yeah, God is real. You know, so. But it was probably when I was in high school that I just started to hunger for the voice of God.

So I've always had faith. I've always believed that God was real. I felt his presence.

And I've had little moments in my childhood, but when I was 15, 16, that's when I really started to hunger to know the voice of God more. So I would just say, God, speak to me. Tell me anything. I want to. I want to know your voice. And God started to speak to me.

And it was a little, still, small voice of, like, do this or tell that person this or. And. And I think just growing in that, it just made everything come alive on a whole new level.

But I. I definitely experience God in many ways or people. Like, how do you hear God? I'm like, I think you hear God in your five senses. Like, I think you can see the beauty of nature.

Like, just go outside and look at creation. Like, look at your fingerprints. Like, God designed that.

Like, that's incredible, you know, so it just kind of became this exploration still to this day, where I'm discovering God in and through everything and what he's saying and who he is and what he's speaking. Obviously, the word of God. I have my big old Bible right here that I'm reading right now. A study Bible.

I'm doing a lot of study studying right now just on kind of the breakdown of verses. But I think we just get to know God kind of like we do with any friends as the years go by and we spend time with them.

I love that you're inviting us to remember that we can experience God through our five senses. I think there's some faith traditions that maybe emphasize some senses over another. Right.

Like, there's some denominations that emphasize knowing God with our minds and, you know, and kind of neglect all the other ways that we can know Him. And some are like, you can feel him, but we don't spend a lot of time getting to know him with our mind.

So it's interesting that you're kind of opening this up and saying, hey, like, you can actually experience God in all of these ways.

Absolutely. I mean, anyone who's tasted my truffle popcorn will experience God in their taste as well.

Oh, well, please share the recipe.

I think it's in my book. I have a book called All Things Lovely, and it's just about, like, your heart and your home and hospitality.

And it's a lot about, like, cleaning and purging, not just in the physical, but also emotionally and spiritually. Well, about forgiveness. I've always wanted to write a book and just never felt like I had the green light from God.

But actually, right before COVID happened, I just felt like God said, okay, sign your book deal. And I was like, okay, on what?

Am I going to have time in this crazy zoo of a life that we live, and then the whole world shut down, and so it's like, oh, great, we'll write a book and adopt another baby. Okay, great. So what else do we have going on? But, yeah, some of my favorite family recipes are in that book.

And just some big themes in my life of worship and forgiveness and kind of cleaning out the junk drawers in our life, and also just the value of hospitality and loving people. Well, and there's a lot of. A different thing of topics in it. That's why I called it All Things Lovely, because there's a lot going on in it.

But my popcorn recipe is in there, I'm pretty sure.

I love that so much. Talk to us a little bit about the cleaning out the junk drawers of our life. I love that phrasing.

You know, another great analogy for that is just like a garden. You know, you grow anything great in a garden and weeds grow and you just have to pull them and kind of like that life happens mantra.

And, and there's just kind of like things that happen in our life that collect that if you don't deal with them, they end up in a weird junk drawer. And then you open that and you, you know, can't even get the drawer to open.

But there's just, I think in our hearts and in our actual junctures, there's just time where you have to pull that thing out and dump the whole thing out and go through it and purge and organize.

And in our hearts, even with the Lord, like one of the biggest questions you could ask is, who do I need to forgive and where am I harboring unforgiveness? And I think that it's such a kind of like a spring cleaning for me emotionally.

I do a lot of work with counseling and I have, both my husband and I have as well, just to before we got married.

And then all through our marriage we have talked to leaders and counselors and that's, I think a huge recipe for success in life is just keeping your heart open and cleaned out and healthy. So that's a big practice for us is just having that.

Yeah, I love it. Your. Your core theme of that book, from what I've read, is this idea of like pursuing what is lovely coming out of scripture.

Why is that a passion for you? And how do we maybe get that wrong?

Like, we don't spend a lot of time thinking upon things that are lovely, true, pure, praiseworthy, but spend time focused on other things. And what does that do in our life when we don't reframe?

Well, yeah, I mean, for me, I have to read my Bible every day or I get so weird. And I've known Jesus my whole life. I've known Jesus my whole life, you know, and I can't, you know, go to Target without reading my Bible.

So I just think that staying anchored is a big theme for me. It's what I'm telling my whole Bethel music team right now. That's the word that I feel is like staying anchored in reality.

And what is reality and the biblical truth? Washing our minds, renewing our minds every day of just the biblical truth. Being around people who are spirit filled Christians is really important.

We love the Lost. We want to be around.

And not just exclusive to Christians at all times, but at the same time, like, it's really important who you surround yourself with.

For me, even, you know, I've got friends who I love, and they love Jesus, but they're super negative, and if I'm around them, it affects me, you know, and so just monitoring what's speaking to you, you know, these phones, like, what, constantly. The algorithms are telling you, like, you have to be really careful to guard your hearts. And.

And so for me, like, even with what I watch on tv, I'm laying in bed the past couple days, you know, and I've just found myself, like, if I watch these, like, stupid, cheesy, like, girly, emotional shows, like, it's like, it doesn't do anything great for my life. I'm just gonna, like.

But if I watch, like, cooking shows, which I love, inspiring, like, travel and cooking shows, I'm, like, creatively inspired and, like, I want to get up and make something.

And so just being mindful, I think of, like, what you're taking in and how it's affecting you, who you're following on Instagram and all the social sites, like, what you're eating, what you're taking into your soul. For me, it's really important. I'm kind of on high alert on what I'm taking in, both physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

Such a good word you talked about. You get so weird. I laughed because I totally know what you're talking about. And you don't mean, like, you just start barking like a dog or something?

Like, hopefully not.

You get insecure, you start acting out of your flesh. You start prioritizing weird stuff. Like you're leaning into this idea of encouraging your team to be anchored.

What's your advice for a woman when she starts to see she's acting weird and she's lost her center, she's lost her grounding her anchor.

You know, actually, Christine Cain, who's one of my favorite humans, has a book called Don't Drift, I think it's called. And so I would recommend that book for sure, because it's so easy to drift, isn't it? For all of us and self included. Hand up. Two hands up.

You know, and so I. Yeah, I think it's simple. I just think staying grounded in the word of God, staying in a good church community is such a massive anchor.

Having the people being surrounded by the people of God in the house of God is so important. The Bible says it's Clear as bell. Those who are planted in the house of the Lord flourish. Planted doesn't just mean I attend, attend.

I'm there once a month. It means I'm actually invested. I'm doing something to contribute to being in the house of God and to being the church.

And so does that mean you're stacking chairs or helping on the info booth or on the worship team or, you know, even just asking the Lord, what can I do with the gifts that you've been giving given me? I was reading that this morning in my devotions. Just about all of us using our gifts together to be the church and to be the body of Christ.

But staying anchored, staying in community, making sure we're monitoring what's coming into our life and keeping ourselves healthy. I think those are all key ingredients for not getting weird.

When you set out to write this book, and it's interesting that the Lord made a way for you to do it. In Covid, you wrote a book about home and heart and health and hospitality.

Did you draw from things you experienced in your home as a child, or did you create sort of this home and hospitable life and all of these things sort of on your own? Like, you. You were like, I. I want to create this. And I'm not looking back to take notes on what people did, but I'm going to create my own thing.

Because I think there's a lot of women who don't necessarily have anything to draw from, from their childhood.

Maybe.

Maybe a few things, but then there's some who don't at all. What was that like for you?

Yeah, it was a mix of both. I had an amazing childhood. My mom and my granny were very. And my grandma, before she passed, were very in my life.

And I grew up cooking, and I grew up in a very safe home. My parents were really wonderful parents.

I don't have anything negative about my childhood that, I mean, that's a standout, you know, and so I'm very thankful for that. It's a very unique situation. And my granny and my mom were actually very hospitable. So we had people in our house.

My granny was always cooking for somebody. My papa was always fixing some random old lady's fence. Like, so I think, like, the heart of hospitality was really in me in a big way, in seed form.

And I think through my life, I think I've just taken a lot of those things that I collected as a child that were nurtured and then have kind of grown those to another level with what we do with our worship team, for example, we have our worship team. We've led the teams for 25 years, and we have the whole worship team come to our house once a month.

And we eat together and pray together and disciple them and love on them and cry with them. And so community is really important. And I think that those little moments of opening your home and inviting people in is so important.

I think that there's not many ways I can think of loving people than bringing them a meal or inviting them into your home as a sense of family. And when they feel family, ultimately the goal is for them to feel Jesus and to feel loved and feel cared for.

And so those just are all themes that I think I brought pieces of my childhood and then expanded and widened those kind of through the influence that God's given us around the world and locally.

I think there's a lot of women who struggle with hospitality and inviting others into their home because they think it has to be perfect.

Yeah.

What's. What's your thinking around that?

Absolutely. And you know, I write on this in the book as well because it's such a big topic that people ask about. And I think the.

The cool thing is that we really can back up this with our life. Like, we have this really huge. You'll see the photos of it in the book. We have this big, beautiful home that we spent 10 years building. It was crazy.

That's a long time, Jen. I'm building a house and I don't want to be doing it in 10 years.

Yeah. So it explains my crazy. But we, you know, it shows pictures of a before of the house as well. And it was just. It was quite the project.

But the beauty of that is that we've lived anywhere in a small apartment to, you know, we've been in renovations and all of our different houses and we've still hosted people. So you don't need anything crazy. I do think though, it really hosting and perfection, it kind of.

It does come back to something that I think is an invitation for all of us to be more excellent in is.

No, our house doesn't need to be perfect and spotless, but I think that the way that God's called us to live is to actually take care of the spaces that he's given us.

And so when you're going to host, you know, you do clean your house in a way that is like better than you probably would have known was coming over, you know, so it kind of keeps this mindfulness and this accountability as well that people are coming Over. So we need to, you know, keep our space in a good way.

But at the end of the day, people are looking for love and they're not even looking for this extravagant meal. Like, you don't even need to, like, try to be Martha Stewart. Like, she's got that.

Like, it can be so simple because the point is like eating together, breaking bread. You see Jesus all through the Bible. He was a foodie. He's always at a gathering table. He's making breakfast for the boys on the seashore.

And what breaking bread with people does for connection is really, really beautiful, the conversations you can have. So I just include. I encourage anyone to open your house up. I mean, even people who are lonely.

I was just talking to our team a couple weeks ago and there was a few of them that are just really dealing with loneliness. And I was like, you know what? Don't wait to be invited to the party. Open your house and throw the party.

Be the one that welcomes people in instead of waiting to be invited. That's a big testament of my life is I love people, I love being around them.

And I think you have the choice to make of either I'm just going to stay home and be a recluse because no one's invited me, or I'm going to throw the party. You know, invite people who like the story in the Bible where they invited people. The rich people wouldn't come like that.

And then so they invited the lost and they invited the randos and created their own friend group. You know, so that's my vibe.

Totally. I love it. I always tell my kids, you have to be a friend to have a friend. So don't sit around and wait for people to initiate with you.

You go initiating. What do you think? Think this sense of community and hospitality and home that you have created and some you picked up from.

I think you called her your granny, your mom and your granny.

Yeah, my granny.

What do you think that has done for your own children that they'll carry into their future lives?

You know, it's actually fun to watch because my older three are 23, 20 and 18. And it's so fun because, you know, you don't see oftentimes what you are sewing into your kids until they're later and they're doing it.

But what I love is that they all three host their own little parties and get togethers and, you know, they.

My older daughter is like such a little party thrower and like always has people in her house and has a book club and you Know, so I just, I love seeing it. And then my, my older son, he, he lives with us and he's, you know, just threw his friend a surprise birthday party here, you know, last week.

So I just love that there's kind of, that they've gleaned that the beauty of, you know, how we fairly loved people and, and, you know, we, we sat our kids down a few years ago and had an honest conversation with them of like, how was your childhood? Like, do you feel okay? Like, are we all good? Like, do you want more counseling than you're already getting?

You know, because we encourage them all to get counseling, which they do and have, but they just. We need help in life, you know, I don't know what, what idea of you have it all together as an adult. Like, no one does. So we all need help.

And I think encouraging people just to like, take the stigma off of like that counseling's because you're, you know, crazier, you know, it can be, but it's also just for everybody. So we all need help.

And, and the good thing is, is I think that there's, there really are moms and dads, especially in the church, you know, who are so incredible and loving and have so much wisdom to offer and would sit down with anyone if they just asked. So I don't think help necessarily even needs to be a licensed therapist.

It can just be a Jesus loving mom or dad in the church that you feel drawn to to get. Get some connections and wisdom. But yeah, my granny and my mom and my.

I'm definitely, I'm seeing themes trickle all the way down from the generations and I love it, especially with cooking. Like, my kids all love to cook, which is fun.

That is fun. That's awesome. You mentioned you adopted a kiddo in Covid. Tell us more.

So we had our three biological kids. We thought we were done and the cliptide glorified. We were like, next kids will be grandkids.

You know, we were just thinking our life was going to head a different direction. Our youngest at the time was nine, our son. And so we were just like, we're good.

And, and then we were watching this show snuggling on the couch and out of the blue, it was after actually Darlene Check had been with us and she was telling us this word that she was studying. And it was actually the here I am, send me verse that she was studying.

And she said that in the Greek or Hebrew, it translated as my answer is yes before you even ask. And that was so profound. To me.

And I felt like I got pregnant, if you will, with that phrase of like, wow, God, what does that mean for me with this life that I've established and this. Our. Our house was done and where everything's smooth sailing with what we're doing with everything on the music side?

And so I kind of felt this holy irritation.

And so the next week, I'm snuggling with Brian, we're watching the show, and the whole episode is about this family who adopts a brown baby, this white family who adopts brown baby. And I. I am like. And I'm not a big crier unless it's Jesus. I'm like, tears are just, like pouring out of my eyes.

And I kind of, like, look up my husband because it's obvious that I'm crying. And again, he's like, okay, something's going on. And I was like, I would do it.

And he looked back at me and the shock of my life, he was like, I would too. And we just. We were losing our minds because we were like, no, this is crazy. Not with everything we have on our plate right now.

And it was insane because I went into the school where my kids go to Bethel Christian School. And for your Mother's Day presents, they pray and prophesy over each mom. It's crazy. It's unreal. It's like, what? What is like.

So I'm sitting down there praying over me, and one of the little guys, you know, they have the cute little words. They're like, you're pretty. Sing nice, you know? And then this one little guy puts his hand on me and he's like. He's like.

He goes, you have a really big plate of fruit. Like a huge plate of fruit, and you want to know what to take off the plate. And he goes, but God made your plate bigger. And I was sobbing.

Like, I was like, sobbing. But we knew. We had a shout out with Dalek. We. We knew that we were supposed to adopt. But anyway, and so we. We.

I called my friend and who had adopted, and I just said, hey, it's super top secret, but I think, think we're going to adopt. And she's like, you're going to adopt a black baby boy, aren't you? And I was like, we told no one. And I start sobbing and I'm like, yes.

And she goes, I knew it. The lord told me 10 years ago. But I couldn't tell you until he told you. I was like, oh, my God.

So it was just a crazy setup, but we knew it was the Lord. We jumped into the process. It was wild. It was beautiful.

The birth mom, we've actually adopted two babies of it now who are now five and eight, which I can't believe. My baby is five. And the heart of adoption is truly supernatural. It. The way that you attach to that baby is supernatural.

The spirit of adoption that we read about in the Bible, when it comes to life in your heart, it is so incredible. And these little boys are just the cutest thing that you've ever seen in your life. Like, they're just so cute.

Oh, they are so cute.

They're a gift to us and just how it's connected our family.

Like, it was just the plan of God that we had these two little guys and they were both born outside of the Houston area and different birth mom situations. But it's just been. It's been a gift to be in the birth mom's lives and. And obviously to have them in our family. God always knew.

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So they're a gift to us and just how it's connected our family.

Like it was just the plan of God that we had these two little guys and they were both born outside of the Houston area and different birth mom situations. But it's just been. It's been a gift to be in the birth mom's lives and, and obviously to have them in our family. God always knew.

I love that he confirmed this for you and your husband in so many different ways. So he knew it was him because you do do so much. I mean, I mentioned at the start.

Of our talk, that's a lot of doo.

Doo.

That's exactly. It's a lot of doodoo.

No, no, no, no, no. But you know, for people listening, they might not know that you are one of the founding voices behind Bethel music.

There might be people who don't know what Bethel music is, but. But they don't realize they know a ton of your worship songs and sing to them on the regular at church and in their car.

And so can you invite us into that piece of your life and tell us how it got started and how you came to be. I mean, you literally sing probably one of my top favorite worship songs, Goodness of God. We sing it all the time at Clyde conferences.

Absolutely love it. Like, can you let us in on that piece of your life and what it's like to be you?

I. I love people and I love writing songs. And writing songs is actually a lot of work.

I mean, getting the song inspiration is usually fun, but actually finishing the song out is like a lot of brain work and to make it great. And my husband is actually one of the best songwriters, especially in the Christian space out there. And he's kind of the silent one.

And so I think a big key ingredient first the song World of Ours is we have a lot of song collaborations that we do. So we write them and we sing them with our friends who are insane. And that cross pollination is really beautiful.

I mean, to see like the song Holy Forever, for example, Chris Tomlin and Brian and Phil were writing it and they didn't have a chorus for it.

And so they played me what they were getting for like the verses in the bridge and I just sat down at the piano and instantly like, I just thought the Lord just gave me, like it was a gift, like, and the angels cry holy. I just sang that back and they were like, yes. So it's kind of like a puzzle.

But other than writing songs, I definitely, I love encouraging other people who are leading worship and writing songs. So that's one of my favorite things to do, is just have people and grow people and help them and disciple them.

When you see a spark or you see God's mark on their life, whether they're in our own team or around the world, the point for us is never that people sign with bevel music. If that works out and that feels right, that's great.

The bigger thing is that we're always looking to see what God's doing and how we can help that and how we can encourage that.

And whether it's me texting someone who's really established in the music industry, just an encouraging word that I feel like the Lord's giving me, or if it's someone who's brand new to our team that we're like, oh, you're a little tiny seed that we're going to now get to help grow and disciple. I love it all. I love all the in between of pastoring, I guess, at the end of the day.

And so it's just fun to meet and just getting to know and love on and have these People that come onto our team then become our friends. Like I think about Paul and Hannah McClure, who are two of our worship leaders on our team, who are just the most wonderful humans.

It's been heartache as well. It's not all daisies. It's.

I have a lot of, you know, heart battle scars from pastoring and losing babies and marriages falling apart and just really walking with people in the trenches. But it's just been really beautiful.

I think that I'm probably a pastor at heart, maybe with a little bit of a prophetic edge, but probably if I hadn't choose one five fold, I'd probably choose pastoral because I just really love people and I really love music. And so I think I'm in the right job.

Yeah, you certainly are. And I love how you describe that creation process where you love to, you know, collab with other people who are making beautiful things.

And I'm curious what that's like when you're in a room with people and they're all tapping into the gift that God's given them and, you know, they're collaborating with each other. And then you get that moment you said yes, like when you just know, like, that's it. Like, what is that? Like that moment.

It's the best. It's the absolute best. It's the best when, you know, you've really just.

At the end of the day, we're not giving people anything that God hasn't already given them.

We're just encouraging them, correcting them, discipline, you know, helping as best we can, whether it is in correction or in love or in encouragement to be all that they can be, you know, and so you, you watch people come along and we've had so, I mean, thousands at this point of 25 years, thousands of people come through and some of them, you know, it's kind of like a garden.

It was really hard on me initially in the beginning years because I had this idea that, like, we'd grow this beautiful team and we just changed the world together, all together, you know, from reading. And God was like, not my idea. I'm going to move them all over the world and take them out. You know, I was like, oh, that's going to be.

And you're going to have to restart over 55 times, you know, So I was like, cool, cool, cool. I wish I would have known that that would have been easier for my heart.

But to have all these people come through and love on them and disciple them and stay connected to them, and then they just go all over the world and do the most incredible impact for the kingdom. It's been incredible to stand back now for 25 years and just watch what God has done with our. Just continued. Yes.

Of loving people and encouraging them. And it's wild. It's really wild.

Never imagine it's interesting because God's pretty much asking you to pour into and invest into these people and raise them up, and then you're almost like, giving birth to send them out and let them go again. I mean, it's almost like parenting where I just hit empty nesting.

And so, man, like, you give everything to your kids and then you have to, like, let them go. And it's. It's literally worse than giving birth. But you're having to do that over and over again with these people that you've loved so much.

Yeah, it has to be really hard.

I mean, the cool thing is, is now we just have, you know, friends that are so close, like family all over the world. I mean, so, I mean, that's incredible. And just to see what they're doing, you know, here, there and everywhere and that, I mean, it's. It's amazing.

But it's hard.

And even just for our team here, where we live, like, in Reading, Reading is a very, like, transitional place where, like, people come for, like, one to three years, and then they usually move. Like, oftentimes people will, which is amazing for the greater good.

But to live here, it's kind of hard with relationships because you build with people and then your community can change. But again, the beauty is, is that when someone moves, then some, there's new space in your weekly life for someone else to come.

And you kind of have two choices. Either I shut down and I give up and I'm like, it's too much, it's too hard.

Or I open my life to new people, and then now my love is multiplied with relationships. And I think that's how we've chosen to live.

And it's just been amazing to see all these incredible humans that have kind of come through and are still our friends.

You've written many songs. What would you say, up to this day is your favorite love song to Jesus?

It's like picking a favorite child.

I won't ask you to do that, I promise. Jen, we have one.

But no, just kidding. No, they're all. It's true.

They all, in some way or another, come from, you know, some form of an encounter with the Lord and something that you've learned about him or seen about him or that he's done something in you. Probably. I'll probably say not on the global scale. I think.

I think it's been stunning to watch on the global scale what Holy Forever and Goodness of God have. Have done like it.

It's baffling to me to see, like, I wrote Goodness of God after, like, 50 or 70% of the song after we had adopted our baby and the adoption was closed, and I was just singing to God in my car. And then I took the song to my friends to help finish it, who are geniuses. And so.

And then, you know, I told you about the story about Holy Forever, but probably one of my favorites is God, I Look to youo. And because it was this honest song that I sang in the car to the Lord when I had three kids, and I was just so overwhelmed with life.

And I. I just said, God, I look to you because I am overwhelmed.

And the Lord spoke to me and said, if you keep saying that you're going to stay that way, how about you change the lyric to God, I look to you, I won't be overwhelmed. And prophesy that over yourself. And so it's still honest without declaring that you are something that you're actually not. You know what I mean?

And so that's probably one of my favorite ones.

And then my other favorite one is Probably Come to Me because it really is such a lightning bolt to your spirit that God's with you in the absolute darkest night. And come to me. I wrote. I laid down on my floor in my room and I just said, God, what's on your heart?

What do you want the whole world to know that I could put words to? And I felt like he gave me like, 90% of that song in that moment of, like, I'm your anchor in the wind and the waves.

I'm your steadfast, don't be afraid even when your heart and flesh fail you I'm your faithful strength. I'm with you wherever you go like that. Just like, God is my anchor, God is my rock.

And it was just a song that, in that moment, I didn't even feel like maybe I needed in that moment, but it's a song that I felt like the world needed.

There was a lot of natural disasters, and people all over the world were just so Scared that something bad was going to happen to them and so much fear. But it actually has become a song throughout the past 20 years after writing it.

That has been an anchor for me in going through a lot of different difficult times in my life.

So I love that so much. How do you keep your own personal worship pure?

I think that. Being a we, like we go to church every Sunday, even when we're not leading, especially if we're not leading.

And I think that has been an anchor for me of normalcy and purity and, you know, you see a lot of the same people every Sunday. And longevity, I think that's a big one, is just having continuity and doing things that just keep you anchored to reality.

Reading my Bible every day, it is the number one anchor for me to keep it pure and to keep it clear.

And my father in law, Bill says if you have five minutes to pray, take three to worship and then see what your prayer looks like the last two minutes. I think that's a profound thought for me. Just to turn my affection to God. God, I love you. Thank you for, you know, everything that you're doing.

And then to pray my requests after I've just turned my heart to him and affection that's changed my life. And then I think having kids, having kids keeps it simple and pure.

I think kids are such a gift to us of the simple things in life and not overcomplicating them and, you know, just in love, kindness, patience, like all of the fruits of the spirit, just focusing on that and not letting the big things in the world overwhelm us or, you know, so quickly with anything media or anything that's happening in the world, can we feel tidal waved in our life? And you know, just even what I was reading this morning in Romans, again, I'm reading this study Bible and it's like incredible.

You know, and so I think like, even in these wild times that we're living and just the opportunity that we have to live in faith and not in fear every day. Like, I. I will not live in fear of like, what's going to happen to my kids at school. And so I really have to stay anchored in truth.

And I think that. Yeah, yeah. Anchored in truth.

I'm curious what your advice is for people listening who have been hurt in church or they have a deep distrust for people on the stage and they come into a church service either because out of obligations, you know, it's Christmas Eve and someone's making them, or they come, but they're questioning. They're questioning what's going on.

How can they sort of move past the obstacles that that creates between them and God by projecting past hurtful experiences onto, you know, present people who are leading them in worship?

You know, I think that we all go through questioning, and we all go through, you know, especially if you've been in leadership like we have for 25 years, around the same leaders who are not perfect, neither are we as leaders. And so I think that there has to be a lot of grace. Grace doesn't, excuse me, error or mistake or anything that, you know, I mean, we've.

We've had to repent multiple times for just different things that we've. In anger or frustration or.

So I think that having grace for people, especially leaders, is massive, you know, and I think that it is not washing over a situation. There are and have been things in church leadership history that have been insane and allowed and unexcusable. And so we have to have that.

But I think we have to have a grace culture of, why didn't those people talk about those things sooner? Is it because they would have gotten canceled? And so I think that there's a real wrestling that we have to have there with grace and accountability.

But for me, coming in the door, knowing that God has placed this person in leadership where God has, I think that. And giving them that grace of, like, okay, they're not perfect and I'm not perfect.

And maybe even the simple question of, like, God, help me see them like you see them, would be helpful for someone who's having a hard time with leadership. But it's okay. Like, it's okay to have a hard time.

And, you know, I mean, I've had times in my life where I've not been okay with some things that are happening with leadership. And I've talked to them. So maybe God's placing that on your heart because you need to go say something.

There's a story in Job that says Job's friends had all talked to him and he wasn't listening.

And then one of my favorite secret Bible characters, it says, and then Elihu, who had written himself off because he didn't know Job and he was younger, he felt like he was supposed to say something to Job, but he didn't because of his age and lack of stature. But then it says the next verse, but the spirit of God compelled Job, compelled Elihu to speak to Job. So he did.

And then right after that, you turn to the next chapter and it says, and Job heard from God. And so I think that oftentimes when you're feeling something, be bold.

And you know, one of my pastor friends here on staff, he said, anytime you have a confrontation or something that you feel like you need to bring to someone that's not happy, that's negative, ask it in a question, and then it's not so accusing, it's actually inviting people in. And so I actually just sat down with a person that I was questioning and I said, hey.

I said, I don't want to let this become something in my heart, but I can't shake it. And I just wanted to ask you about this xyz.

And it invited a conversation that actually invited more leadership into it to actually speak into something that was a pretty red flag. That actually was a big, potentially life saving red flag moment for them to have an awareness of.

So maybe God's giving you something that you actually need to speak to someone that could save them from something. We all have blind spots. We need people in our life to not only love us, but also to say, hey, this part of your life, I love you, but this is.

It needs some attention, I think. And so I think we all need that. And extending that grace kind of gives us different eyes for people than maybe we would have coming in.

There's so many things I want to ask you, but I want to get you back to your bed, Jen, because I know that you're fighting sickness.

But my last question while I have time with you is there's so many beautiful things that you're doing, and I'm curious if you have any up and coming dreams that you're working on. Yep. Yep. That you're like. I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. Anything you can share about?

Yes, I. I actually am almost finished. I'm. I'm a few weeks away maybe at being finished with my album, which I've never done a solo album before in all my 25 years of doing this.

And I felt like God gave me the green light about a year and a half ago to start working on it. And so I've been working on it and I am so excited for this to be out. I have no words. It's a mosaic of an album.

It does have worship music on it, so that's obvious because it's me, but it really is a mosaic of different songs from my life.

There's a song that I wrote 20 plus years ago that I've never released just for people who are really struggling with their faith to know if God's real for themselves. And I do that with my friend Gable Gable Price. And it's just kind of like this Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper kind of a vibe.

And so then there's a song about. I do with Abby Gamboa about just being so obsessed with our kids. And it's called you'd make me Happy.

And it's this fun pop song about how we're just obsessed with these humans that are. And it kind of can go for anyone in your life that you just love and you know everything about them and they just make you so happy.

And then my husband and I did a country love song duet together. Yeah. Which is so cute and just very precious to me just with being married for 25 years as well, so.

And then there's a song just about walking through hard things and why do good things happen to bad people? I mean, bad things happen to good people that I wrote after we lost my Brian's mom. My mother in love and called Mad at God.

And it's just the perspective of someone singing to you when you are just going through it and just questioning like, maybe you do believe in God. Maybe you're just mad at him. And it's like a really haunting like Billie Eilish y vibe, which is very. It's. It's dark, but it's. It's.

It'll make you cry. And so it's really a mosaic of all these. And then I do this crazy. No one sees it coming.

Plot twist song with an African choir and a Portuguese artist. And I do a song in Afrikaans and Portuguese and English. And it's so fun and it's so crazy and so happy called Morning to Dancing.

And the story behind it is so fun. So. And that's just like four or five of the eight or nine songs I do. I have one of the tracks on the album is just my five year old.

He was like four at the time singing this little song. And the whole track is just him singing I've got the Joy. It's like really fun.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, you sold me. When is this album dropping exactly? We're hoping in the next couple months, but looking for a release date that makes sense around the holidays.

So I'm not too stressed out with all the holiday things. So it could be January. Ish. But we don't know.

I love it so much. Well, thank you.

And then I'm working on another book too. One of these after this is I finally finished this. Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm working on.

I have a publisher meeting tomorrow again and so I'm jumping into the book writing game again for just kind of a life story.

I thought you were gonna answer my question and say, well, I'm gonna adopt five more children, but your turn.

Almost empty nest. You can now. So your turn.

Yeah.

I asked my husband actually the week we became empty nesters if he would ever consider adoption and his answer was not the same answer as your husband's.

So you never know though. God could change his heart. You never know.

Oh well, Jen, I hope you feel better and I know there's people listening who want to come and like follow along in your life and happenings. How can they do that?

The best way to contact us and kind of join the party is probably just following bethelmusic.com as far as the email for that or Instagram Bethel Music Jen Johnson and that's probably the best. Or Bethel Church. I'm there every week.

Love it so much. Take care, Jen.

Thank you so much. Bye guys.

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