In Episode 54 of the United Methodist People Podcast Rev. Dr. Brad Miller talks with Indiana Bishop Julus Trimble and Indiana Conference Lay Leader David Johns about simplifying the United Methodist Brand with Love, Grace, and Forgiveness. This is part 2 of a two-part conversation about simplifying the United Methodist Brand. Part 1 of this conversation is on Episode 53 of the United Methodist People Podcast. https://united-methodist-people.captivate.fm/episode/53

We're talking about being full of ourselves since we

are full ourselves when we think about how we our agenda, our

personal focus, you know, our own personal agenda, and how

we've always done it, you know, this type of thing, you know,

we've always done it this way. And maybe this is a time for

even ramping up even more innovation and creativity and

bringing in different voices, whether it be younger people, or

people from the business world, for instance, anything else that

can give us a different perspective, because so much of

what we've done just hasn't been as effective as we would like to

have been busy. What do you think about that thinking about

innovation and creativity in the midst

of a global pandemic? There someone

who said, I don't know who originally said this, but we

should never let a good crisis go to waste, that I think

innovation and add adaptability are really a part of the

outgrowth of being in a global pandemic. So this is a season

for us not just to wait for whatever the future holds, but

really to be creators of a better future and

unapologetically pursuit, pursue beloved community in the

process,

I want to bring it right kind of around, kind of

bring the conversation around now to a a biblical theological

perspective for us to focus for the last minute or two of our

conversation, that's when it put if, for whatever reason is laid

on my heart, these three words that we need to be talking about

a little bit more, we're talking about our branding, and about

the diversity in the church and the division of the church and

how we can kind of get back to the main thing. And those three

words are grace, and love and forgiveness, and forgive grace,

grace, love and forgiveness. And I just like for you to, for you,

two gentlemen, to speak on those permitted in terms of how you

would experience those in terms of this conversation we're

having about branding, and keeping the main thing, the main

thing, Dave, how about you?

That's a great start. Because I've spent the last

couple of weeks sharing with people, my reinterpretation of

the word love, maybe liking the great version, where it's where

I can, I'm concerned about someone else's, I am me, we've

become very much about me and a little less about you. And how

do I get around that and to be reminded that grace is this

notion, I am willing to extend to you the same thing, I want to

extend it to me again, it's funny we are we are good at

skipping our own mistakes, but sometimes extremely good at

identifying someone else's. And Grace, this whole note, I share

the story that, you know, we recently went through, and one

of the one of the meetings, I spend a lot of meetings about

the Samaritan story. And how the Samaritan without hesitation,

saw a need and addressed it. It wasn't about anything other than

putting that person first. And someone Someone asked me about

it. And I kidded him, I said, well, because they said, Well,

Dave, don't do we need to have relationship. I said

relationships great in the context. But if you're hurting

out on the side of the street, what do you want somebody to

come? Do? You want somebody come extend grace to you, you don't

need an interrogation. They don't even know why you're

there. It's what what can they do? So that's, that's the love

of Christ to us. And the grace is extended to us by Christ. And

all he's asking is that we extend the same to others. And

so sometimes it just takes a little self reflection to

recognize where we're still imperfect souls. I mean, I

examine myself and I still make a lot of mistakes. There are

times I wish I could grab words and pull them back. And I can't

always do it. And I expect people around me to to grant me

that forgiveness. And in that same vein, I've got to extend

that same thought to others, because Christ extended that to

me, and is trying to help me understand how to do that.

Because in my world, I was in a tough cutthroat, corporate

world. And, and I've got to learn a little bit more about

how to truly be the face of Christ so that people see grace

in me, they see the love of God in me, and they see forgiveness

in me. And if I expect people to do it for me, I'm going to do

that for others. And that's the tough part of those three words.

I think they're great three words to challenge us. Can we do

that? Can we see example. We've done that because we expect that

Brad, we expect that to be extended to us. How do we extend

that to others, Bishop grace,

love and forgiveness.

Grace is I really like that word grace.

Often I I've heard it years ago and said, My wife and I said,

God loves you. There's nothing you can do about it. Sometimes

we will say and we love you. There's nothing you can do about

it. So we've received grace. And we can be instruments of grace

by loving people without asking for as David said, application

or aspiration. I use it. I use the illustration. I see if I can

use my spiritual imagination. Got it. God has a printing press

in heaven. And God is printing name tags, with everybody's name

on it. And on the back of your name tag is stamp. God loves

you. There's nothing you can do about it. And it says brand or

when it says David or it says Cindy or it says Korean or is

this Candice? Whatever. It's says every single person has a

name, a name tag that God has printed that says you are loved.

And there's nothing that doesn't require action of Congress or

conference to change that. The prophet Jeremiah said, what God

spoke to the prophet Jeremiah, and said, I love you with an

everlasting love. So that's what I see. See graces, David's done

a great job of talking about love, and you know, love, mate,

love and love and flesh, love that love in the flesh and the

sense of, you have to really see it take action, love as an

action word. Forgiveness is something I think that we have

neglected bred. And we really need to recover. And I thank God

for you bringing that up. We, we pray it as a wrote prayer, in

our religious ritual, you know, the Our Father who art in

heaven, you know, forgive us our trespasses, and some

translations, forgive us our debts, as we forgive our

debtors, or forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive others

who have trespass against us, or Jesus tells us that we ought to

be forgiving, not just forgiving and loving, not just those whom

we like, or whom we love, but even our enemies. And that's

probably the hard work, the hard work of reconciliation is the is

the outgrowth of true forgiveness.

I think the forgiveness pieces is a huge

piece of this, because I think the reality is, there's a lot of

hurt a lot of hurt feelings out there right now in our church,

and, man. And in order to get reconciliation, it's going to

take the hard work of forgiveness, asking for

forgiveness, and being contrite in many ways, and we can do it.

That's what our tradition is. But it ain't easy isn't it ain't

easy, and it's hard to teach that as well. I want to bring up

to one more thing I want to kind of conclude on this thought,

David, when jugglin, big, big trouble. And I talk oftentimes,

we had the theme of Bishop trembles theme is be encouraged.

So I'd like to ask you to share what is it you are encouraged

about right now, given all this conversation we've had, then my

ask Vishal trembled to pray us out here. So David, what are you

encouraged?

I'm encouraged, because when, when I can go and talk to

people and a little bit smaller setting, and have a little bit

more intimate time, I see lots of hope out there. And I talk

about how as we have the help of the Holy Spirit, we also have a

tremendous amount of help from our sisters and brothers in

Christ. You know, it takes us that when I can break through

that other shell of these other things getting in people's way,

and you can see smiles on faces that Yeah, yeah, we can get back

to that again. And you go and you visit a food pantry in some

little town, you see the people there and are coming together

and pull that together. I just see all those things out there

and say to myself, it's there, we just got to keep working our

way through it not forget that it's there. And not forget that

those voices are out there. And the sometimes not be overwhelmed

by maybe some of the loud voices that are overly influencing me,

and paying attention to some of the more quiet voices out there.

That in truly our dedicated mission in ministry. And I can't

forget about them either. And so they encouraged me, I just, I

just love having those names and walking out of there hearing the

stories of the things that are going on the people they've

reached, and what they're doing. So Brad, I'm not discouraged at

all. I'm a little discouraged how little work I'm getting done

in that vein, because I've got a job there. I'm not discouraged

by what's out there.

When I think of it I love that about the listening

to the stories and this and the small, quiet voices, a bishop

any closing comments you want to make and then perhaps a prayer

for us?

Most certainly I want to thank Brad

and and David for this rich and robust conversation. And for

those who may hear this podcast, we certainly want to send a

blessing to all of the people who received his podcast may

indeed be a blessing to you. For the Bible says in First

Corinthians, We are one body even though we are many members.

But just as the body is one and has many members, and all the

members of the body, though many are one body, so it is with

Christ. And we often refer to in terms of the church as the body

of Christ. So I think that's a that's a serious mantle to

carry. If we are to reflect, reflect the love and personhood

and power of Jesus Christ. We really must demonstrate those

three words you ended us with grace, love and forgiveness. Let

us pray. Oh God of grace and God of love and God, forgiveness.

Pour your power of healing upon our world, upon your world, upon

our neighbors, and upon our nations. Oh God, we pray, indeed

that those who are lonely will find a friend in you and maybe

find a friend in hearing this word of encouragement. You love

us with an everlasting love. And we are thankful to be recipients

of that grace. Now give us the strength and power To be

instruments of Your grace, so that we might indeed love

others, even the stranger in our midst. It is in Jesus name we

pray, amen.

Amen. Our guest today on the United Methodist

people podcast with Reverend Dr. Brad Miller, Indiana area Bishop

Julius treble in Indiana lately Indiana conference lay leader,

David Johns. Thank you for joining us.