This week on The Liberty Alert, join Dr. Gregory Seltz and his guests, Stephanie Taub, Senior Counsel with First Liberty Institute and Tim Goeglein, Vice President of Government communications of Focus on the Family as they discuss the growing problem of corporate discrimination in the workplace of those with a traditional, Christian worldview. Hear how 1st amendment protections function especially here as well protecting, even encouraging you to be the excellent employee or boss that you are called to be. Listen in for the political, the cultural, the moral, and the faith perspective on these vital issues and their impact on our culture and our mission….as we continue to grow in the wisdom needed to be 2 Kingdom citizens for the country we love. Join us!

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The following program is sponsored by evangelical life ministries.

Welcome to the Liberty alert with Gregory sells, sponsored by our friends at the Lutheran center for religious Liberty here in Washington, DC, a program that cuts to the chaos and confusion in the culture today by talking to kingdom, citizenship, old biblical principles for a robust public Christian life. And now your host, Dr. Gregory Seltz good

Day, good day, Washington DC in friends of the program all around the country. I'm Gregory. Retz welcome to the Liberty

Alert where every week we try

To cut through the noise and take on the issues, especially the public issues that matter to people of faith. Today in our program, we are privileged to have Stephanie tos council for first Liberty Institute and Tim Galine vice president of government communications for focus on the family. Welcome Stephanie.

Thank you, Greg. Thank you for having me on great

Meeting with you. Thank you. Listen, let's just jump right in. Cuz I, Stephanie, this is a huge topic now and I just wanna start off by saying this. Um, back in January, we had Kelly Shackleford from first Liberty on our program and he said something that is still incredible to me. He said, this is the best time in his lifetime for religious Liberty protections, uh, for the church and her people. And I of course said, oh, come on. you know, but we're seeing this in the courts. We really are. We, you know, with the Bladensburg case, starting make its way down river with some of these kind of things and it's happening. And that's such a great thing to see, but then your initiative, which is to see what's happening in the workplace where corporations are actually making it harder on people of faith, uh, to just be good employees, but what are we today? Why do we still need this religious Liberty initiative in the workplace for people of faith?

So thank you so much for setting that stage. And I, I have to agree with, uh, my boss, Kelly Shackleford, that this has the most potential right now. Uh, as we've seen in the past week, for example, at the Supreme court, the Supreme court issued fantastic opinions, protecting the free exercise of religion, right? Incredibly strong religion or opinions that protect religious Liberty for all Americans. Um, and then you're also right that, um, in the marketplace we're seeing more threats than ever, uh, two religious employees, two people of faith that simply want to work without being forced to compromise their religious beliefs who simply want to work without being forced to choose between their religious convictions and their job. And so many requests for legal help come to my desk every week. We're we're getting requests, um, from someone who is facing this choice, whether they they're afraid that they're going to be fired or they have been fired because they simply want to stand up for what they believe in

Now. Isn't that amazing though, but, and lemme just ask you this again too, before we get into some particulars of what you're talking about, you would think that if the courts ruled and, and they protected and they laid the ground floor of civility, uh, there for us all, when did these corporations decide that they were gonna become the religious philosophical, ideological voice of our culture? Do you, is that what's going on with these big corporations?

Yeah. And I think Tim, this, this actually, uh, I I think goes to a deeper issue and I think our people don't even understand this really there's a growing secularism in our culture that sees persons of faith as nefarious, backward problematic. And, and, you know, I just think it's past time, uh, to take on these false charges seriously, you know, why is it even more important to defend the Judeo Christian worldview and the public square? Because it is, and it has been a positive force for good. So, you know, when we see that these five fortune 500 companies don't even mention it, what they're really saying is all the blessings that we have today have nothing to do with the religious worldview. And that actually is crazy.

I, I am so glad you raised this point, Greg, and especially in light of what Stephanie was sharing with us, because what first Liberty Institute is doing. And I think this should be to borrow Thomas Jefferson's phrase as a fire bell in the night. I think what, uh, what we are learning about now is that the tip of the spear of the potential crackdown on people's religious Liberty is not just historically residing with government and governmental institutions. Let's remember that a be of, uh, of, uh, of major religious Liberty cases, you know, did not, uh, arise necessarily from a governmental institution, but increasingly in, in, in the private sector. And that's why I think this is enormously important to pay attention to because those of us who are passionate about religious Liberty and the rights of conscience, we should stop only looking to government or government affiliated institutions for the potential place of the threat, to our working lives. That increasingly to the point that you made and the point that Stephanie made, and the point that is inherent in the narrative of this very important program is that unfortunately the private sector now is increasingly a monumental potential threat to, uh, religious faith and to religious Liberty. And it's frankly, it's where we're going.

You know, and Timmy well said because, um, I just read an article where it said the Supreme court restores a culture of life to America, and that's not what they did, you know, with the overturning of Roe V. Wade and Dobbs. What they did is they, they made possible a framework to restore life in America, but they didn't do it. You know, they just gave, they just put, you know, the constitutional protections back where they belong. We have to engage the culture. And reinstill what life means because we're already seeing philosophically people saying, yeah, you know, life's being taken away from us. And it's exactly the opposite. So well, well said. Okay. Um, Stephanie, back to you, you know, when we talk about some of the issues that you're gonna be addressing with this initiative, I think people understand the accommodation one. Okay. But again, you please explain some of those kinds of things, but the one that really gets to me, and this is the one I think has just popped up recently, which is the hostile workplace where actually being a hard working person who just happens to be a Christian.

You're not there preaching the gospel, and you're not, you know, maybe you read your Bible at, at lunchtime or something like that, but you're just, you're a good employee. But if they find out you're Christian and that you actually have belief systems, I mean, this there's a hostile workplace for people of faith, like never before. And I guess, I don't know how they get away with this because these are philosophical, ideological, moral ideals, and they don't have the right to enforce those on us. So talk about accommodation and then talk about this hostile workplace stuff.

Absolutely. So title seven is federal employment discrimination law. It protects, um, virtually all employees across the country. If you work at a, any business that has 15 or more employees, then this protects you and you have a right to request a religious accommodation from your employer. And then it also protects you from, um, being discriminated against because of your religion. It protects you from facing a hostile work environment because of your religion. Unfortunately, I, I have to say that these, these are strong protections, but they haven't always been enforced. Um, oftentimes companies feel empowered to disregard these religious Liberty protections in the workplace, and sometimes courts let them get away with it. So we are pushing a first Liberty Institute to make sure that these, uh, religious Liberty protections actually have teeth. We are bringing lawsuits, um, our, uh, primary primary lawsuit and this sphere right now is, uh, against Alaska airlines.

And so we are increasingly seeing woke corporations, feeling empowered to censor disagreement and root out employees of faith who hold traditional religious beliefs on moral issues. Alaska airlines, for example, fired to flight attendants because of their religious posts on their internal company messaging board. And in the notice of discharge to one of these employees, they said even defining sexual orientation or a, or gender identity as a moral issue is a discriminatory statement. And so at Alaska airlines, if you hold religious belief, if you even imply that you hold, um, different moral beliefs on these issues, then they're gonna consider that discrimination they're can consider that harassment and they will fire you. And so this is absolutely religious, uh, discrimination title seven clearly protects you from being fired because of your religious beliefs. And that is exactly what these work corporations want to do. And so I, the threat is increasing and we need to, um, really step up and defend our rights if you are in, um, if you are, any of your listeners are facing a similar situation, we've got, um, guides that sit that, tell you what you can do if you're facing this sort of a situation mm-hmm , and you can reach out to us, or there are a handful of other good religious Liberty groups that do this kind of work.

Um, and so we would love to reach out to you, uh, to connect with you.

Yeah. And we'll talk more about that at the end, cuz I really want them to get, uh, a hold of the, the great information that you provide and the great resources that you provide, but also talk about this hostile work environment, because you know, what you just said is once someone actually voices, their, you know, their opinion, um, that there can, it can be very punitive, but it's, it's even worse now where people are brow beaten into silence and just basically told what to do. And that goes with a lot of the, these HR initiatives where you go through this training, you go through that training and basically those trainings are slapping you around morally because you don't believe in a lot of the fun, fundamental things that they're talking about. Even though you believe that you believe in diversity, you believe in co equality, you believe in all those things, but what they're talking about is different than that, but then you're kind of intimidated into silence. And I noticed in the hostile work, uh, discussion, you were saying, well, they can't, you can't have in a religious accommodation not to go to these trainings. Okay. Well, if I don't go to those, if I have to go to those trainings, am I not being coerced into thinking a certain way? Even if I disagree?

So this is our wonderful opportunity. Um, and so this particular case involves a post office employee who simply wants to observe the Sabbath on Sundays. Um, and he has been able to, and is willing to, uh, work extra hours that aren't on Saturday on Sundays, but continually it's still scheduled for Sundays and continually denied religious accommodations. Um, and so the post office can accommodate, but hasn't, and that's why, um, so we're asking the Supreme court to take the, to take this case, reexamine that bad president, um, and really which could help employees, not just observing, uh, in the Sabbath context, but across the board who need a religious accommodation.

Well, Tim, I, you know, and the religious accommodation in practice, that's something I think people have grappled with and they really do understand this. What I don't really understand is it the hostile work environment, because really there's a philosoph, there are philosophies being hoisted on us today. Now, if you tell me I have to go through a training, just because that's what we do, but we're not coercing you to think that way. Well, that okay, fine. Because all of us have to be challenged many, many times, by the way we think about things. I don't have a problem with that. And when push comes to shove, I'm comfortable debating things, uh, freely in the public square, because I do think the way we think about things is a blessing, not just for us, but for all people, but here we're talking about, again, certain voices being told, uh, that they can speak and certain voices being told that they can't speak. And that's, what's so problematic. Why aren't people more outraged about this

And I think that this is precisely what we are seeing in the way that you have described it, Greg, and the way that Stephanie has described it, this is a managerial, a corporate revolution that we are living through. And the target too often is people of faith and conscience. And the real problem I wanna go if I may very quickly to the point that you raised the real problem here is that millions of men and women of faith are never gonna be a part of the discussion. Like the one we are having, right? They, they, they, they simply want to get up in the morning, meaning they wanna go to work. They wanna work hard and smart and be great employees and do their jobs. And they do not have an expectation that there's not going to be any kind of accommodation or understanding that for the overwhelming majority of Americans, you can be an excellent person of faith and an excellent employee. And those two will never, ever collide.

Right? Well, you know, even just, just think of it this way. Folks, you have inalienable, unable rights, where do those rights come from? They don't come from the state. They come because you are created by God. So that's the foundational principle that undergirds the not only the declaration, but also why we limit the powers of the government and the constitution. And so that's it. Now, Dennis, Preger said it this way. So if you're an American, uh, act like you believe in God, whether you do or not, I love this. He said, cuz your, your personal liberties depend on it because if, if the state takes away those unalienable rights that come from God, because they convince you that you're just a blob, that actually is an accident in history. And there is no God, well, your citizenship goes with it. That's what we're trying to get at here. That there are foundational principles that actually undergird Liberty. And some of these corporations are attacking those things. And we're saying, no, we're gonna defend those things for everybody. So Stephanie, your people are doing this, but what are some of the solutions offered by this initiative? And then get to some more of the, of the resources that, that people can access.

Absolutely. So the number one solution, and it really is a focus of first Liberty Institute. That's why it's unusual for a law firm to have the word Institute in their name. is because we focus on education and if you win a Supreme court case or a other big, uh, court case, but no one knows about it, then it's almost as if the case didn't exist. So it's so important for our, um, for everyone to understand what their rights are, um, and to stand up for them because the, the simple fact of the matter is if every employee of faith understood their rights and stood up for their rights mm-hmm , um, then we wouldn't have this crisis that we have right now. And we would, we would actually be able to have a voice and exercise our, our rights mm-hmm . And so we're really encouraging everyone to stand up for what you believe in.

And if, and if you are called to make this difficult choice between your faith and your job, then just to know what your rights are, be very cognizant of the fact that corporations might not respect your rights. They might retaliate against you for standing up for what you are legally entitled to mm-hmm and you might face repercussions. But with that in mind, we, we offer guides and resources on our website to help you consider, uh, what your options are. If you're faced with these difficult circumstances and some recommendations for best practices and how to request a religious accommodation.

Thank you. And we'll get your website here right before we close. But Tim, I, I love we've talked about this too. Know your rights. I think one of the problems today is we think we tend to think in rights, but rights really are responsibilities to be exercised in culture for the sake of another. Uh, I don't know where this self-centered notion of. It's my right. So I do whatever I want and you have to pay whatever consequences come from me exercising. My right. No, that's never been the founding fathers. So again, Christians need to understand don't you think that God is the one who preserves the world. He's the one who saves the world and, and his word is very powerful and we've seen it work. We've seen it, bless people. Why aren't we, you know, shouldn't we be thinking now, what are my responsibilities? They're defending my right. Thank goodness for that. But now what are my responsibilities?

Yes. It's about duties and obligation, right? Uh, it's about what is my vocation and what am I to do, you know, in the public square, you know, not everyone's vocation, uh, is to be on a great radio program like this, or to be an attorney, uh, or a moderator or a host, et cetera. But in the Christian life, we all have duties and responsibilities. And the first one is that we are not ever to put a bushel basket over our candlestick. We are always to allow the gospel to be, uh, uh, debated, to be discussed, to be heard in the public square. Uh, it doesn't mean that we have to get up every morning, get, get, get a Bullhorn out of our closet. That's not what we're speaking about here, but as good citizens who also happen to be Christians have to be able to maneuver and to navigate and are extraordinary exceptional country and our constitutional rights, uh, absolutely protect the ability, uh, to be faithful Christians, uh, to be excellent employers. And I think that this guide, uh, is an outstanding resource. I think we at focus on the family would be very eager to point people toward the wonderful first Liberty Institute resource and say, here's a great one stop shop to understand, you know, your rights and, and how they can

Be applied. And one thing I'll add for those of you listening in, um, there's a great book I read a long time ago. It was what if Jesus had never been born by James Kennedy and it talks about things like we talk about universal education. Like it actually is something that's always been, that's so silly. It's just a, it's a blip in time. And it happened because of the reformation and, and people thought that everyone should be able to read the Bible for themselves. And you start to get into this, the dignity of humanity, the dignity of children, the dignity of women, the dignity of family, all those things, even though the golden rule used to be don't do unto others, what you don't want them to do to you now it's due unto others. What you wish them to do to you. Jesus turned all those things in a whole different direction. And if he had never been born or the Christian worldview had never been so influential, we would see a radically, radically different world. And so we're supposed to be part of this educational process. Uh, first Liberty's supposed to be part of this educational process and we are proud to do it together. All right. Stephanie, last word. So what are some of the cases that you're, that we should be praying about? I know you just talked about the, uh, religious accommodation case. There's a couple more along these lines.

Absolutely. So we're, uh, so as I mentioned, the case for the flight attendants against Alaska airlines, we recently filed that, um, prayers would be appreciated for that one. Then we're then the post office case about religious accommodation. We're asking the Supreme court to take that case. We'll be asking them to take it soon. We know the Supreme court only takes about one or 2% of cases where they're asked. So if they took that case and issued a ruling, protecting religious employees across the country, that would be, um, that would be outstanding. So prayers for that. Um, and then also, um, we're, we're continuing to fight of, again, for business owners of faith as well, such as, um, the small family business, sweet cakes by Melissa. Yes. That, um, simp simply wants to be able to engage in the marketplace without being forced to violate their conscience, their religious beliefs. And so we're going to ask the Supreme court to grant them a final victory in that case as well.

Well, uh, I just signed, uh, onto the letter supporting, um, Melissa, you know, in the sweet case case. And I would recommend that you all go to first Liberty Institute's webpage. Can you give that webpage again real quick?

Yes, we are first Liberty Institute. It is first liberty.org,

First liberty.org. And you can see all of these things, these, uh, first of all, this great information, uh, you can also see the other great work that they're doing. And again, folks, uh, we, what they're doing is they're, they're guarding, you know, they're actually doing what, uh, our constitution wishes us to have done, which is to protect state encroachment from you being able to live a virtuous life for the sake of others, and that's the secret of America, but that means now it's up to us then to reinstill these not only in our children, but in our communities. And so please go there to see how some people are standing up to this. Uh, maybe grab that book and see some of the, the beautiful things that have happened just because the Christian biblical worldview has, uh, taken hold in some parts of the world, uh, but understand, uh, that sometimes you have to contend for these things or, or they can be, um, E even with the right loss in place, they can be lost very easily. So Stephanie, thank you for this engaging work that you're doing. God bless you and keep up the good work. Thank you and Tim, thanks for being with us today. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks for tuning in today to get to know our LCR L DC work better. Check out our website@lclfreedom.org contain. There are resources to empower your public square dynamic discipleship till next time. God bless you. Always I'm Gregory. Seltz have a great week.

You've been listening to Liberty alert with Dr. Gregory Seltz executive director of the Lutheran center for religious Liberty in Washington, DC. This program has been brought to you by the Lutheran center for religious Liberty.