In this engaging episode of "Talking Hospitality," hosts Timothy R Andrews and Tracey Rashid welcome the esteemed chef and restaurateur, Cyrus Todiwala OBE. Recorded at the bustling Cafe Spice Namaste, the episode delves into Todiwala's inspiring journey in the hospitality industry.

Guest: Cyrus Todiwala OBE

Hosts: Timothy R Andrews & Tracey Rashid

Key Points:

1. Cyrus Todiwala's Early Culinary Interests: Todiwala shares his childhood experiences that sparked his interest in cooking, including his early encounters with food while dealing with asthma.
2. Career Beginnings: His journey in hospitality began with a diploma in India, leading to a significant role at the Taj Mahal Hotel in Bombay.
3. Transition to the UK: Todiwala discusses the challenges and hurdles he faced in establishing himself in the UK hospitality scene, including a 10-year battle with the Home Office.
4. Establishing Cafe Spice Namaste: Insights into the establishment of his renowned restaurant and the unique challenges he faced.
5. Personal Life and Support: Todiwala highlights the importance of his wife's support in his career and personal life.
6. Community Contribution: His involvement in setting up the world's first Asian and Oriental School of Catering in Hackney Community College.
7. Quick Fire Round: A light-hearted segment where Todiwala answers rapid-fire questions, revealing more about his personality and preferences.

Why Listen to This Episode?

If you're a hospitality professional seeking inspiration and practical insights, this episode is a must-listen. Cyrus Todiwala's journey from a diploma student in India to a celebrated chef and restaurateur in the UK is a testament to resilience, innovation, and the power of supportive relationships. His story is not just about culinary excellence but also about navigating bureaucratic challenges, contributing to the community, and building a legacy in the hospitality industry. This episode offers a blend of personal anecdotes, professional wisdom, and engaging storytelling that will resonate with anyone passionate about hospitality.

Conclusion:

This episode of "Talking Hospitality" is more than just a conversation; it's a journey through the life of a culinary visionary. Cyrus Todiwala's experiences, challenges, and triumphs offer invaluable lessons for anyone in the hospitality industry. His story is a powerful reminder of the impact one can have through dedication, creativity, and a deep love for the art of hospitality.

Chapters:

00:00

Immigrants in the UK hospitality landscape

01:10

Cyrus Todiwala's journey to the UK

02:04

The birth of Cafe Spice

03:18

Culinary interest and early experiences

05:07

Revamping Indian cuisine in the UK

06:25

Challenges in establishing Cafe Spice Namaste

08:16

Breaking barriers and changing perceptions

09:36

Advice for immigrants starting a business in hospitality

16:04

Resources and support systems for immigrants

21:22

Cyrus Todiwala's involvement in MasterChef

22:20

The importance of Cyrus Todiwala's wife in his journey

24:03

Quick fire round

Welcome to the fifth episode of the new season of Talking Hospitality. I'm Timothy R Andrews, joined by my fantastic host Tracey Rashid

Thanks for watching. Hi, everyone. We are thrilled to bring you another episode this fabulous season.

And we have a very special guest, the renowned chef and restaurateur, Cyrus Todiwala. And we were lucky enough to record this episode at Cafe Spice. Namaste. So any sounds you hear, they are of a working restaurant.

Before we dive into it, did you know that immigrants have significantly shaped the UK's hospitality landscape?

Absolutely.

In fact, a study by the Migration Observatory in Oxford, the University of Oxford, reveals that immigrants own a substantial proportion of hospitality businesses in the uk.

That's very true, actually.

That brings us lovely to our esteemed guest, Cyrus Todiwala. Welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Tell us your story, Cyrus.

I came here on the behest of one of my friends who worked with me at the Taj Mahal Hotel in Bombay where our careers began. And he was here working with the Taj Group in London. But he also had the opportunity to take over somebody else's restaurant and manage it.

And one thing led to another, to another, to another. We ended up having to take over that business because it was at the peak of the 90 recession.

From there on, we partnered with the owners of Smolensky's restaurant. Michael Gottlieb had this vision about having a chain of Indian restaurants in this country. There never was one.

And so the Cafe Spice was born because Namaste was a restaurant we managed in early street, just further down the road, became very synonymous with my name.

And so we brought the name Namaste into Cafe Spice so as to keep it different and thankfully so, because as soon as Cafe Spice became very famous, 90 other Cafe Spice restaurants opened up straight away. And you couldn't differentiate because the only thing differentiated was Namaste and that we could trademark.

It's been a tedious long, tiring at times, but exhilarating, exciting, lots of trials and tribulations and we've come a long way, but we are here today, reasonably well established again, maybe a couple of Years from now you shall see a little bit more success coming our way.

Sure we will.

Exactly. We'd love to see that. We know that your journey.

We're going to talk a bit more about the resilience that you've gone through and some of the difficulties. What was it that sparked your culinary interest when you were younger?

My culinary interest started many years ago. Even as a child I just love dabbling in food.

So going back many years, when I was little I was very highly asthmatic and as a result you missed a lot of school. So I'd be wheezing and puffing and coughing in the morning. Mum would then say, sorry, you can't go to school today because you know it's really bad.

But when 9 o' clock goes, mentally the brain, you start feeling better because now you know I'm not going to school, it's nine o' clock and as soon as I start feeling better, I'm trouble for mother. And in Bombay most women send their husbands tiffins.

So the tiffin man came and collected the tiffin at 11 o' clock or so and took it to your father's office and delivered a box there.

So mom would start cooking immediately after my sister left for school and everything happened and then my trouble would start and then she'd say, okay, behave yourself, I'm dragging you in the kitchen. The little bits and pieces would start. The family loved food so the interest grew. And I think after my A levels I had no clue what I was going to do.

I wanted to get into agriculture, which was one of my other loves. You know, I love the environment, land, animals and so hesitatingly thinking what can I do?

And then a friend of my sister said, why don't you come and have a look at my college, you may like it, you like cooking, come and have a look. And that's it. That changed my mind completely. And so I went into hospitality. In those days there was no degree courses in India.

There were only diplomas finished that got selected by the Taj group to come and work for them. And that's how the career began at the Taj Mahal Hotel in Bombay and worked with them for a good nearly 16 years.

Rose from being a very low down commie to the youngest executive chef in India of a five star deluxe property at one time and then eventually in charge of two property, then threw it all up and came and started back again as a kame in the restaurant here because the food was named Indian but it wasn't Indian. I couldn't understand it. Every name was descriptive of Indian food, but there's no representation of Indian at all.

And I thought how can Britain be wrong? And so I had to then have the guts and the courage to change everything.

And that brought the restaurant into a great dip again because people walked in, didn't recognize the menu, walked away. And those were challenging times as well. Eventually the articles came out, the reviews came out and same people came back.

And then we had one of the best followings ever of regular customers through the previous Cafe Spice Namaste. And now the old regulars are coming back, still few of them and we are building many more new ones.

So people have come to realize that our food is different. Don't compare it.

It's a really great story. Like 28 years is very impressive. So firstly, congratulations.

Thank you very much.

Secondly, could you talk about some of the dips? And we are obviously we're talking about some of the highs as well. But what would you say is the biggest hurdle for you?

What was the biggest hurdle in establishing Cafe Spice Namaste?

Well, I mean establishing Cafe Spice Namaste would be the easier option, but establishing myself as a resident of UK was the bigger hurdle. I came on a work on it this country that means I'm employed by somebody else.

Circumstances changed and we decided that if my wife joined me, we will take over the running of that business. I had no idea what I would do, but we had too much at stake.

Given up everything back home and I said if you join me, we'll take over the running of that restaurant. And she joined.

What happened was that changed my position with the work permit from being an employee to an employer and that ruffle the feathers of the home office. We had a 10 year battle on our hands to just live in this country. So it was a lot of things happened during that time. I don't blame them.

It's just that in that bureaucratic circle you get picked out because you've done something which is not expected by the system. And the system then tick marked you as a man to be exempt from this country. But we are so much asticked. They were employing people.

Had they had I been ticked out, they would have lost their jobs. Children were in school, they were small and we could not give up. So that was the first big hurdle.

And even while Cafe Spice was successful, that hung as a sword on my head for a few more years until eventually things evened out.

Then the people who helped on that journey to make sure that you were recognized as a person who was integral to the fabric and eventually got accepted.

We were very much the pioneers in that sense, in the sense that I very bravely changed the cuisine, not knowing that the British public was too set in their ways on how they considered and thought of Indian food. Many still are. We still cannot change everybody's perceptions.

But that was a perception I did not understand, and I was glad I didn't understand that, because if I understood that, I would have probably veered towards that a little bit to pander to the expectations. But I had to throw it all out and just completely revamp the situation.

I paved the way, I think, in a sense, for other great chefs to follow and make a bigger success of it. I'm very happy with the fact that I allowed that to happen to myself.

As a result, the others were able to tread on a little bit more firmer ground because the foundation started getting laid. People started to understand that there is a lot more to the subcontinent of India than chicken tikka masala.

Britain at the moment, I think, is the most fantastic country in the world for experimentation of any cuisine.

Because the British palate is so well developed now, where it was not 28, 29, 30 years ago, it is now developed to an extent where by which the British public are receptive to anything. And they will try it. Some will love it, some will not love it, but they will definitely go and try it. You can see outside, the trends have changed.

Yeah, because so many now, South American restaurants, Vietnamese restaurant, Chinese restaurant, you name it. There's a plethora of them out there. And everyone's vying for business by the same time.

Every European inside, it's not always their own people, immigrants, it's always the British public that is the most prolific amongst Western. I think we all had a little part to play in that, definitely.

Yeah.

And do you think it was your forward thinking that kept you motivated through those tough times?

I often toy with that idea myself. I will always think, what's next for me to do, to be creative, to be different. Educating people was, I think, primary in a sense.

And then there's so much out there that I still would love to try. It is a motivation. I mean, you go to the markets. I am very involved with farming. I'm very involved with the environment.

I'm very involved with the marine conservations. I'm involved in all these activities.

So for me, it's always exciting to do different things, to highlight what goes on, and that gives me an opportunity to remain excited like a child. I could have given up and Easily gone. Back home, we didn't have our passports. My parents were old. I couldn't go visit them.

That was the most painful thing for us, that I can't go see my mom and dad. It still hangs on my head. But I couldn't leave the country. And that's exactly what somebody would have wanted.

Leave the country, ask for your passport, you're not coming back. So it's all these things working on your mind. How do I look after my kids and my wife? What do I do?

And I went through all of that and we came out laughing. I think those are great things to reflect upon.

So one day, hopefully, if I get a chance, maybe, you know, write a little story about your life and about what you've been through. I often toyed with the idea that was it some form of racism? And I. I don't believe in that.

Hopefully somebody somewhere listens and understands what the real situation is. And then, like me, you benefit from it.

The story's one of, like, resilience and, you know, keep going. And do you think there's anything in your background or your culture that's made you like that?

Or is that something you just are as a person or circumstances made you like that?

Oh, there has to be something of both in there. So we never had a very easy life anyway, throughout. Yeah, it's been tough. I mean, as a child with asthma. And then that's one aspect.

Second aspect is we were okay. We never felt ever deprived. It's always that you must fight on to make it better. The other is community. So we are foreigners to India.

We fled Persia from religious persecution. One of the promises our community had made was that we shall always mingle and amalgamate within your people. We will make it better.

We will always be productive. We'll always contribute. So there are these historical things that great Persians have played, I think, somewhere on the line.

It gets into your genes and you want to succeed and you want to fight. Of course, there are people born with a golden spoon in their mouth. You got to create that golden spoon for yourself.

And that's what we are all about. We always had rich kids in our schools and, you know, very rich. And they had everything under the sun.

For example, I had a prince in my dormitory in school. He was the only guy who got a big glass of milk in the boarding school. We never got milk. And he used to keep showing up.

One fine day, I grabbed his milk and chucked it into our tea. And he was very upset because he is so used to having Milk all the time.

So I think, you know, a lot of people are born with that, but most of us are not. And we have to work hard to create our own golden spoons. And each golden spoon is different. Everybody has their set of ambitions.

Everybody has their own mental makeup of what they want to achieve. Wealth has never been my motivation. I remember in class five the poem that was I had to say on stage.

The last line was, lives of great men all remind us how to make our lives sublime and departing Leave behind us footprints on the sands of thy. And that's been my motivation always. Will I leave a footprint behind? Will I leave a legacy behind? And what will be my legacy?

It's a great ending to that poem. It has never left my mind and I was only tiny. Standard five years I was tiny.

I think it's a great ending to the book that you're going to write as well.

Hopefully. Hopefully. Hopefully one five day.

Yes, bring it back to you today. What advice would you give to immigrants who are aspiring to start their own business in hospitality in the uk?

You know, some of the big chef names within the Indian diaspora here, they used to all come and hang around in my kitchen at one time. Now they are superbly successful, more successful rather, they have more restaurants, they have generated enough wealth for themselves, etc.

But I think they would come and hang around and say, what is it? What should we do? What can we?

I said you should.

One thing in one thing in your mind is you have to break certain banners. Everyone says America is the greatest land in the world, but don't Forget it is 75 times the land mass that we have gotten.

It's a vast nation compared to this country. Here we have many, many, many opportunities. We've got to just strive for it.

And I think within hospitality, the main thing you want to learn as a migrant is first and foremost, understand this industry. I started it on default.

If everything was okay, I would have still been running someone's restaurant and maybe gone on to move in a job somewhere else. I would have been happier in a sense, perhaps because my income would have been stable. So find the niche, find the thing, work with people.

That will make you understand certain things. The fear is of course, the language one. And I think everybody that comes to this country must learn English.

It is absolutely essential that you become conversant in English because that is the first factor that drops you down. And what immigrants try to do, which they should never do, is work only within their community. It's wrong. We always want to work within our people.

So we talk the same language, we have the same culture, we work with the same people, we eat the same food, we never learn. Learn to speak English first and mix in within the people that are creating magic these days.

Find a job, work as a porter if you want, it doesn't matter. But build yourself up. Never, ever lose sight of your vision or your dream. And that's what cripples most people. They lose sight of that vision.

And if you think, I'm going to make it, you will make it. You will make it. And this country, for everybody's sake, I think, is welcoming to that.

You're very inspirational. Thank you.

Talking about help and stuff like that, are there any specific resources or support systems that you yourself have found helpful that perhaps our listeners might think, oh, I should go and investigate that.

Most immigrants, sadly, sometimes find a way of how to live within the system and other how to live outside that system.

So my belief is that if we come in as a migrant, if you make yourself comfortable in accepting what is handed out to you, you are always going to remain low. So you need to come out of that level first and come out of that comfort zone and fight it.

That's the most important thing, which most immigrants forget. I had no idea that help was available when I came in.

And when I first came to Britain, I thought, wow, finally I'm going to a land where everybody will speak English. So I do not have to train the staff, I do not have to educate them, and I am going to have trained staff.

So in India, I am that thing all the time, getting people from villages to train them, educate them. And when I came here, the shock just slapped me in the face.

The customers joked up, they never understood what the jokes were. And so I started to ask friends who can come and teach them English.

So we had a teacher from City of London School whose wife was teaching our children how to play the piano. And she said, douglas will help you. So Douglas would come and talk to them in English and make them as a customer how to react, all that.

And then the local council came to know the learning in East London. Tech kept them all. Somebody approached, said, you're dopamine? I said, yeah, but we can increase it. Said, how can you help me? I've got no money.

I said, no, no, no, no, no,.

We will fund you. And that's how we started.

I got more involved with that and that led to a new partnership that was formed, the other called the East London Hospitality Business Partnership. We managed to get hotel personnel managers on board. We got a couple of colleges that deliver training that then went on further.

We started to get help in teaching the staff a few things and that led to then me being convinced that we should open our own school. I got involved with education within government and it went on from one to another to another and I got very actively involved.

Eventually we tied up with two other restaurants, one Thai, one Chinese.

The Thai restaurant Atik Chaudhary runs Yum Yum Thai restaurants and Holland Kwok, who has a chain of restaurants called Good Earth, went to the government office for London, said we need some money to put up a school. Nobody understood, nobody wanted, but we persevered. I went and gave a little presentation.

One person said yes and we got a bit of money but it had to be tied down to a local body. So within Hackney Community College we opened the world's first Asian and Oriental school of catering.

We put 960 young kids into full time jobs within five years. And then the government took away the funding because they don't understand hospitality, even though we had great results.

But they took away that funding and they put it into something else. It took us seven years to pay back the overdraft which we had personally guaranteed. My wife wasn't very happy with it. She wasn't very happy.

She still thinks I'm an idiot, so that's fine. That hasn't changed in her mind yet, so it's fine. I wasn't prepared to give up. I said why am I doing this?

To tackle these kids who are thrown out of school and nobody wants them in Eastern. This is way before Mr. Jamie Oliver opened 15.

We were doing it so that we could bring those kids from getting onto the streets and causing mayhem into doing something constructive. Then we started this competition called Zest West Asia. So the idea was now to look at young students of British origin. Age is not a barrier.

They can be 50 years old. So long as they are in study, in full time education, they can enter.

And the idea is to veer them into that thinking, which is what we are talking about. Out of your box thinking British and French only to thinking the world. And Asia is 80 countries from Turkey to Japan.

And so this competition is now in its 12th year, become extremely successful. It's the most sought after inter college Competitions.

When students and teachers write to me, it brings you up how much you have done to, you know, actually encourage them to do something different. The prize is going taking them to Asia for 10 days where they learn as migrants. I think we.

We need appreciate what has been given to you rather than constantly keep moaning about this not being right or that not being right. Fight to become better. So everybody has a vision, and they should keep their vision going. I don't know what my vision is yet.

I know because I'm involved in 50 different activities. But the important thing is that we did make a difference. We made a mark.

We have influenced many, many, many young chefs who are now aspiring to do different things in their lives.

I think you have a clear vision. From what you're saying, it's. It's like, for me, from what you're saying, it's like serving people through food and culture.

It's serving people through education and knowledge. You give, basically, and I think that's why you're involved in so many different things. It's all about giving.

I think life has to be about giving. I mean, if you don't give, what else is there in life? You can't take anything back.

Okay, so our listeners know that I'm a complete fan girl when it comes to MasterChef. Your involvement in MasterChef has been really significant.

Number one, it's exciting. Number two, it motivates people. The MasterChef platform is not just exciting for people interested in cooking.

The whole idea of food has motivated Britain. No extent. Everybody is into food in some shape or form. It is very important that there is a program there triggering people's imaginations.

And master chefs is doing that. He's doing that because there are people watching closely.

And I think MasterChefs and other cookery programs encourage people to look outside their spaghetti bolognese and do something else with it.

So my last question. Yeah. And there's a person that you keep bringing up in the conversation. Yeah.

And I was wondering, perhaps you might want to say a few words, and that's about your wife. She's been an important part of your journey.

I do bring her up all the time, is that she was a student in the Catering Institute in Bombay. I had just come back from training in Switzerland. We had to all do industrial training in India compulsorily to gain your qualification.

And she was one of them. Kept nosing around my kitchen. And funnily enough, I had this thing in my mind. Yeah. I would marry that girl.

Yeah.

And I took a Bet with one of my colleagues once and she never let me forget that.

You.

You bet, I said. Actually, I made a bet, you know, I didn't know things would turn in my favor and she came one day and said we were extra ticket for a movie.

Would you like to come and join us? And from there it started and We've been married 39 years and two weeks time climbing properly.

I have to go somewhere I know she can handle my kitchen because she is very clever. You need somebody strong behind you. And she's been a pillar of strength all throughout. So she deserves every bit of recognition.

She's an integral part of not just the business but me and everything. I found the best, most stable partner in the world.

Well, that's better than that. Big shout out to Pernicious.

Yeah, it's amazing,.

That sound, Cyrus, it's the sound of a quick fire round.

Super.

Wow. What does that mean?

If we can quick fire answer. Yes, that's true.

So we find that chefs, particularly chefs that have been on tv don't often give one word answers. So we've decided to run a competition.

All right.

You're going to get marked on your speed, your timings and the closeness to using one word answers to the questions that we're going to give. Now it's a good thing you're sitting down, Cyrus. Do you want to know why? Because there's a prize. You want to know what the prize is?

I know I'm not going to win it because I can't give.

Already put five bananas on so it's.

Very difficult for me. One more answer. Let the price be in the suspense.

The winner will get the amazing prize of £10.

All right.

Yeah. You ready?

Ready.

Spend like however you wish.

Dream job as a child.

Last book you read.

National geography.

Favorite movie genre?

I like western movies. Good, the Bad and the Ugly your.

Go to comfort zone.

Darling Rice.

Early bird or night owl?

What?

What's your spirit? Animal Dog.

Hidden talent.

Good at diy.

What's the favorite city you've ever visited?

Geneva, if you want.

What's your guilty pleasure?

Song is by Bette Midler. Eagle. And it always reminds me of Bowen.

What's your best concert you've ever attended?

Swan Lake.

Your favorite historical era?

The Reynolds air.

Who's your dream dinner guest?

David Attenborough.

What's your ideal weekend activity?

Gardening.

What's your most used app?

What's that?

Coffee or tea?

Tea.

Last hobby you picked up?

Influencing young kids.

What's the first thing you'd buy if.

You won the lottery pay off all my expenses.

Favorite ice cream flavor?

Peanut butter with chocolate.

What was the nice new kick called?

Particular ointment. What it does and how good it is.

And your go to karaoke song.

An old Engelbert number.

If colors had sounds, what would blue sound like?

This.

And tranquility.

What do you call a fake noodle?

A bad pasta.

And what's a ghost's favorite dessert? That is now over. You can breathe again. The answer is, of course, an impasta. And the other one is Blueberry cotton.

Blueberry cotton.

Tracy, we've just had this competition. Now we need to add up and work out the score, don't we?

We do calculation.

Don't worry about it.

Just elapsed. Remember, he actually failed to answer any questions with one word.

We have.

I only have I answered with one word.

Thank you. Yeah, thanks for reminding me that divided by seven.

Yeah.

So we are 54.

54. So what does that mean? Sorry, you're gonna have to follow the season to find out it's bad news. Wait till the end and find out.

It's a pleasure.

Thank you for making the time to see. Thank you for sharing your insights.

Sadly, that's all of this episode of Talking Hospitality with me, Tracey Rashid and Timothy R. Andrews. For tune in next week we'll have another fabulous guest who will be Talking Hospitality.

So a big thank you to all our listeners who have made this podcast possible. Don't forget to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening and stay safe and well.

Sam.