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Learn more about Camp Wojtyla!

Follow Camp Wojtyla on IG

Mari Wagner sits down with Annie Powell, founder of Camp Wojtyla, a Catholic wilderness adventure camp in the Colorado mountains, to talk about dreaming with God and trusting Him step by step. Annie shares how, at 15, she felt called to bring people to Jesus through creation in a summer-camp setting, and how that dream was shaped through college, FOCUS, and many “switchbacks” of closed doors before Camp Tiwa launched. They discuss fear of disappointment, discerning whether a dream is from the Lord, practical ways to move from vision to action, and how God can fulfill dreams differently than expected. The episode closes with encouragement to pursue sainthood in ordinary life through daily faithfulness rather than perfectionism.

00:00 Meet Annie Powell

05:47 Dreaming Camp Wojtyla

10:11 Handling Doubts

11:25 Discernment Advice

19:52 Switchbacks and Closed Doors

21:54 Dreams Versus Gods Plan

25:45 Prayer Answers and Surrender

26:59 Learning Through Redirection

28:29 Making Dreams Practical

33:24 Dreaming of Sainthood

34:33 Holiness Not Perfection

38:58 Daughterhood and Gods Gaze

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West Coast Catholic - westcoastcatholic.co

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About

Ever Be is a Faith and Lifestyle podcast hosted by Mari Wagner. Want more? Follow us on Instagram. @mari.c.wagner @everbepodcast

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

Welcome back to another episode of

2

Ever Be Happy Wednesday, everybody.

3

Today I've got a dear friend

Annie Powell on the podcast today,

4

so welcome to Ever Be Annie.

5

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

Thank you.

6

It's an

7

honor to be here.

8

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

Can you share a little bit about

9

who you are and what you do so

our listeners can get to know you?

10

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Sure.

11

My name is Annie Powell, as you just said.

12

And , , I run a ministry called Camp Tiwa.

13

It's here in the Colorado Mountains

and it's like if Outward Bound

14

and maybe a residential summer

camp that you can imagine or

15

think of in your mind, had a baby.

16

That's what Camp Tiwa is.

17

So we're like a wilderness

expedition, adventure summer camp.

18

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yes.

19

And I heard about you guys because

Trey went through your camp and

20

a lot of the Wagners or all the

Wagner kids went through your camp.

21

So the Wagners are such

a big fan of you guys.

22

And I remember when I first met them

and they were telling me that, you

23

know, they were going to camp and stuff.

24

I'm like, oh, that's fun.

25

Like I went to a summer camp

once and they're like, yeah,

26

well we sleep in hammocks.

27

And I was like.

28

Oh, this is like hardcore

outdoor camp, like,

29

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Yeah.

30

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

which is so cool.

31

And I love, I've just loved hearing

about some of their favorite moments

32

and the mass on the meadow, and just

like the ways that you so beautifully

33

integrate the Catholic faith into outdoor

wilderness activities, so, so cool.

34

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Yes.

35

Yeah.

36

Thank you.

37

Yeah, it's been a great joy to

have the Wagners, all of them come

38

through and seeing formed there and

39

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yes.

40

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Um,

yeah, it's just, yeah, incredible.

41

And it's incredible to, like you said,

to just to integrate the Catholic faith

42

into this wilderness experience and see

God in all things, and especially in

43

the beauty of his creation.

44

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

45

Absolutely.

46

Well, before we jump into our convo, um,

where I wanna hear more about like how

47

this came about and your dreams and how

God played a role in all of that, let's

48

kick it off with our ever bee segment.

49

Do you have an ever be moment lately?

50

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

Yes, I do.

51

I, when I saw that question,

I was like, I love this.

52

Um, so was a very big week

in the Powow household.

53

We had our youngest turn nine.

54

It was her golden birthday

'cause she was nine on the ninth.

55

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Um.

56

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

um, And I, as you know, all

57

of our children were adopted.

58

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

59

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: me, are

like a huge thing I want my kids to know.

60

They are treasured, so preferred,

so meant to be in this world.

61

And so a birthday celebration is just.

62

It's a big deal in our house.

63

So I remember like going to sleep

being like, okay, I hope tomorrow

64

we can just shower her with so much

love and make it so special and have

65

her just know how special she is.

66

And it was just such a beautiful day.

67

And I have teenagers in the house too,

and that's always, um, you never know

68

where the moods are gonna be or where

the, where their life is gonna take them.

69

They're so

70

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

71

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

And it was just so lovely.

72

We had a great family breakfast of crepes.

73

We have this like tradition in the

mornings and then in the evening,

74

even though we had play practice

and uh, sacramental prep, we had

75

all these things in the evening.

76

It was just a Monday night.

77

Everyone came together,

the teenagers drove in.

78

We all met up in Boulder and just had

the most lovely meal together where

79

the big kids shared like their favorite

Evie memory and their favorite moment

80

of when she was born and when she

was little and what it was to like,

81

and because they were eight and six.

82

So they have vivid memories of

when, when she came into our lives.

83

And so it was just so special.

84

I remember just sitting there being

like, thank you Lord sacred moment.

85

What a

86

gift.

87

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

That is so beautiful.

88

I love the thought of the older kids,

like sharing their favorite moments.

89

How beautiful.

90

Even as a sibling to know, like,

I'm so loved by my parents, but

91

I'm also so loved by my siblings.

92

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

Absolutely.

93

Absolutely.

94

Yeah.

95

What's your, what your moment?

96

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

Thank you for asking.

97

Yes.

98

Um, so last night I had

bible study here at my house.

99

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Hmm.

100

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: one

of the things that the gals shared

101

has stuck with me all morning and

I love it and I wanted to share it.

102

So she said it was something that her

therapist told her once in a meeting

103

that gave me a lot of perspective

about our relationship with God.

104

So she was sharing with us, like

imagine yourself as a toddler playing

105

in a sandbox and there's like the

little excavator and the construction

106

toys with the sand, you're pushing

around the sand and everything.

107

You're just like happy playing in

the sandbox because you know what

108

to do with these toys, like you

know how to play in the sandbox.

109

And then imagine taking this whole toddler

and then taking em outta the sandbox and

110

putting them in a real construction zone

with real tractors and real big equipment.

111

And like this toddler now wouldn't

know what to do, like wouldn't know

112

how to handle these tractors and the

equipment and it would be too big

113

of a job to know how to handle it.

114

And she's like the construction zone.

115

That's God's job.

116

That's God's job to know how to

move the equipment and where to move

117

the tractors and where to move the

sand and how to build the homes.

118

And your job is to stay in the

sandbox and just enjoy and play

119

in the sandbox and with what the

Lord's giving you in that moment.

120

Enjoy those blessings as a child

and don't worry about like how the

121

whole neighborhood's gonna get built

and how to use the big equipment.

122

And so it was just a beautiful.

123

Just reflection for me, especially as

someone who's like constantly trying

124

to tell God, like, my plan is so good.

125

If you would just give me a chance,

I can pitch you my five year plan.

126

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Right.

127

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

And God's probably like, just,

128

can you play in the sandbox, Mari?

129

Like, let me build your life.

130

Like let me do it.

131

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Wow.

132

So beautiful.

133

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

So, so yeah.

134

So I hope that gives everybody

something to pray with this week.

135

let's dive in though.

136

Can you just share a little bit about your

story of dreaming big starting Camp Tiwa?

137

How did this even come about?

138

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Yeah.

139

Thanks for asking that question.

140

Sometimes I look back and

141

I.

142

think just what a grace, what a

143

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: I.

144

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

the whole thing was from finding

145

this incredible youth group in high

school to having great mentors.

146

Um, but when I was 15, I went

to this, um, imagine like the

147

focus seek

148

conference, but proud for high schoolers.

149

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Okay.

150

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

that's what it was.

151

So I was at this fancy hotel

and it was so much fun.

152

I was with all my friends

and this the speaker, he.

153

He challenged everybody.

154

He said, I want you to write a mission

statement for your life, because if

155

you don't know where you're going,

156

you're gonna get lost.

157

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: True.

158

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: So yeah.

159

So I was like, okay.

160

Um, mission statement.

161

And he was like, now

go like, go right now.

162

Go up to your room or go

somewhere around this hotel.

163

We weren't, it wasn't

Catholic, so it wasn't like a

164

chapel we could go to or

165

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

166

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

Um, but he said, go in and write

167

a mission statement for your life.

168

So I remember like taking my red

notebook, that was my journal at the

169

time, and I remember writing like.

170

Mission statement, what

is my mission statement?

171

know what a mission statement is.

172

And, then I remember Joy, who

was a young mom who was helping

173

out at our youth group, and she

was a very committed, uh, mentor.

174

And would talk about how the Lord will

speak through the desires of our heart.

175

That's in scripture,

176

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

177

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

she, but at the time, I

178

didn't know it was scripture.

179

I just knew it was joy.

180

I remember thinking, okay, Lord.

181

You'll speak through desires in my heart.

182

So what do I love?

183

Okay, Lord, I love you.

184

I, and I was really blessed from

a very small age to just have

185

faith in the Lord and just to

have a relationship with Jesus.

186

And being Catholic in Chicago at

the time that I was there just

187

really wasn't Catholic youth groups.

188

There wasn't the things that we know

today of like a Catholic youth experience.

189

Like that just wasn't what it was.

190

Growing

191

up in Chicago when I did,

192

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

193

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: I was

at this really vibrant Protestant youth

194

group where all my friends were, uh, and.

195

I just got to know the Lord, like

in a really powerful way through

196

scripture and um, just a really

robust relationship with him.

197

So I was like, okay, Lord, I love you.

198

love bringing people to

you in this youth group.

199

We were very evangelical.

200

Every kid got an invite to youth group.

201

We're like, you're gonna love Youth

group, you're gonna love Youth Group.

202

Come on.

203

And we would invite everybody and it was

very welcoming, very wonderful experience.

204

So I was like, I love

bringing people to you.

205

And I loved my summer camp

experience that I got to go to.

206

I went to two different camps, um,

both in Illinois, both very different,

207

but I loved my summer camp experience.

208

And then I loved creation.

209

Now, I

210

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

211

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

up in the south suburbs of Chicago,

212

which is much more urban than

213

suburban.

214

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

215

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

the forest preserves weren't

216

exactly like safe places to go

hike alone or things like that.

217

So it wasn't really Chicago that

instilled that love of creation.

218

I

219

ached for it there,

220

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

221

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: family

every summer taking a road trip out

222

to Colorado.

223

So we'd pack up that minivan, stay at

the YMCA of the Rockies for two weeks.

224

My dad.

225

I like everything in Rocky Mountain

National Park, and I just loved creation.

226

It spoke to my heart in such

a deep and powerful way.

227

And so I looked at that list,

those four things, and I was

228

like, well, Lord, that's it.

229

That's what I wanna do.

230

It was like the Holy Spirit was like,

let's play, connect the dots, right?

231

Just like, let's pull this all.

232

And so I was like, okay, Lord,

I wanna bring people to you.

233

Through creation in a summer camp

setting, and it was so clear,

234

like so abundantly clear that

that's what I was supposed to do.

235

And I was

236

15.

237

So what do you

238

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

I about to say you were 15 and

239

you had this kind of clarity.

240

That's a miracle.

241

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

And I, it reminds me how much the

242

Lord speaks to us at all ages.

243

I think sometimes we're

like, well, when you grow up.

244

God will show you this, but really,

I mean, I was just reading from,

245

uh, the Book of Samuel today.

246

Like, my goodness, like Samuel

was so young when he first heard

247

the Lord, like he's speaking to

us at all stages of our life.

248

And

249

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

250

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: I

just happened to be blessed enough

251

to have that profound moment at 15,

252

What do you do with that?

253

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

254

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

do you do with that big dream?

255

So I felt like the Lord said, um, just

when people ask you when you want,

256

what do you wanna do when you grow up?

257

Just tell them.

258

Just tell them that dream.

259

Which was interesting because that's

when I learned that a lot of people

260

don't know how to dream people would

say to me, oh, well they'd come

261

to me with all the problems, right?

262

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yes.

263

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Gosh,

how are you gonna do that and have kids?

264

How are you gonna do that and get married?

265

I mean, where's the land even gonna be?

266

What?

267

And I was like, I don't, I

268

don't know.

269

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

You're like, don't crush my dreams.

270

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

right, exactly.

271

You can't correct my dreams.

272

Like I just know that the Lord gave me

that step and I needed to follow that one

273

thing, and then he would reveal the rest

274

overtime.

275

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

Yeah, I so.

276

I don't relate to the exact clarity at 15,

but I have definitely relate to sharing

277

dreams that I have and encountering

fear on the other end, and encountering

278

people's kind of like hesitation and

apprehensiveness towards big dreams.

279

I find that a lot of people

struggle to even dream big in

280

the first place at all, and.

281

Maybe even just take their dreams

seriously, out of fear or disbelief

282

that it could actually happen to them.

283

Um, so what advice would you give

to somebody who feels that way?

284

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Um, I

think, I think we might feel that way out

285

of this fear of disappointment, right?

286

Like, if I dream big and then it

doesn't happen, then I'm just,

287

I'm just gonna be disappointed

and then maybe that means that.

288

wasn't really speaking

to me in the first place.

289

Or maybe that means that God isn't

even real if he doesn't fulfill that.

290

So it's, I, think, I think for

a lot of us, first, it's coming

291

to that like, is this dream?

292

Right?

293

Like, I'm gonna sit with that dream.

294

I'm gonna pray with that dream

295

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

296

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

and say, okay, Lord, like if you

297

want this to happen or if you even.

298

Sometimes it's just that he wants us to

dream it because it takes us to this.

299

It's like a launching

pad for something else.

300

so it's like being faithful to

the dreams that God has for you.

301

It's important.

302

It's, I, it's an important

part of our walk.

303

Um, but I would say believing in

yourself and believing in God.

304

Believing that God can do big things.

305

Really believing that and believing

that you can do big things.

306

I think as women we so often

like our gifts and talents

307

or what we, um, just minimize

308

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

309

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: bringing

and to recognize that God takes our loaves

310

and our fishes and he multiplies it.

311

So we, yes, maybe it's not this huge

thing that we're bringing, but it's.

312

A lot bigger than we think.

313

And it's also a really important

thing that we're bringing.

314

I was actually just reading something,

um, from JP two in his letter to women and

315

just talking about, um, the new feminism.

316

And he talked about, um, in some of this

commentary on feminism or on just women

317

rather, not feminism, but on women.

318

he talked about how when women are f

not allowed to be fully themselves.

319

The world experiences a

spiritual impoverishment

320

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

321

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: and,

and I think that part of us living to

322

our dream, listening to our dreams, part

of listening to our dreams is us being

323

fully ourselves, because firmly believe.

324

dreams are from the Lord.

325

I don't think that those are just

dreams from us and they can be.

326

Right.

327

So that's what we have to discern.

328

We have to take that to prayer.

329

Like, is that something I was

just really inspired by, or is

330

that actually a dream for me?

331

Uh, but I think yeah, believing

in God, believing in his bigness,

332

believing in what you are able to

bring to the world through God's

333

grace, through god's working in you.

334

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

335

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

But, you can, you can do big things

336

when God is behind you and God is

337

doing that through you.

338

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

Yeah, absolutely.

339

Let's, um, let's jump back into

your story if there's more.

340

So we left off with you were

share, starting your share to

341

share your dream with people and

encountering all the obstacles.

342

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Oh yeah.

343

All the obstacles.

344

Yeah.

345

Um, yeah, so I remember being so

discouraged by that, being by that,

346

actually, I don't know if truly

discouraged is the right word, but being

347

really frustrated by that and thinking.

348

Well, God's bigger than all of that.

349

God will figure out the plan.

350

God's gonna figure out like the

husband, the children, maybe.

351

I'm not called to be married.

352

I was like very comfortable.

353

Even though I really wanted to get

married, I was really comfortable

354

that maybe the Lord had a plan that

355

just looked different

356

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

357

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

everyone saying it had to look like.

358

, , and so I remember as people would share

those, uh, their own fears, I would

359

suppose, or their own like grownup.

360

Things like, well, how are you gonna

361

do this and how are you gonna do

362

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

363

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

And, they're all really valid points.

364

But I think, I think what I came

to at that young age of 15, 16,

365

17, as I was going through that

was like, God, you're so big.

366

You can figure all of that out.

367

You can figure out the details.

368

You can, you can do the

whole construction zone.

369

I'm just gonna focus in on what

you've given me and what I'm

370

supposed to do here.

371

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

372

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

So I realized that really

373

God had all of those details.

374

God had all of that.

375

Um, all he had all of

those pieces figured out.

376

I just had to be diligent to what he

was asking of me, like in that moment

377

and of me for how I was gonna follow

that dream like today or the next day.

378

And so when it came time to

look for colleges, I remember

379

thinking, what should I major in?

380

it was, it was really lovely because

I remember thinking, well, maybe

381

the summer camp world would say I

should major in like recreation or

382

leisure studies or things like that.

383

And.

384

My mom really helped guide me

to an education major, which

385

I thought was really good.

386

Like how do we learn, how do

we grow, how do we develop,

387

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

388

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

school for elementary education

389

and then middle school education.

390

Um, and then my time, again, being

faithful to like the next step in my time

391

at University of Illinois, there was this

great ministry called Focus, and they came

392

my junior year and started a bible study.

393

And then I was in that

394

Bible study

395

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

396

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

Missionaries about dream that I had.

397

And they said, wow, like,

that's so beautiful.

398

That's so incredible that God

would give you that dream.

399

I wonder what

400

he's gonna do with that.

401

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

402

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

people of faith, women of faith who,

403

who have been dreaming with the Lord

as well, and they're saying, not like,

404

how are you gonna figure all this out?

405

They're saying, wow, I wonder how

the Lord is gonna keep revealing

406

that to you step by step.

407

And then I

408

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

That's so beautiful.

409

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: I know.

410

Isn't that amazing?

411

And the way we can speak truth to

412

each other as sisters

413

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

414

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

so powerful.

415

And so then, I, I joined Focus

as a missionary and I remember

416

my focus missionary, who I had

in college, say, you, you need to

417

tell Curtis about this strength.

418

Founder focus, right?

419

Like he's that guy and they're like, you

need to tell Curtis about this dream.

420

You need to tell him what you're

thinking because maybe there's some

421

alliance here, some collaboration with

422

focus that could work.

423

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

424

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

I remember thinking, am I?

425

I am now 22 years old

426

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

427

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: I to

like walk up to this man who started

428

focus and say, Hey, I have this dream.

429

You know?

430

What do you think?

431

And, it was through their

encouragement, uh, that I did, I,

432

I presented that, um, to focus.

433

But before I say that, I wanna talk

about my very first year in focus.

434

'cause

435

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

436

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: moment.

437

So here I was just getting to know

all the other missionaries and I would

438

tell people as, as we were, share what

we wanted to do when we left Focus.

439

Um, I would talk about this

camp that I wanted to have.

440

And now the one person I really hadn't

told that to was my now husband Scott.

441

we were getting to know each other.

442

We were becoming really good friends, and

he and I are just sitting there talking.

443

I don't know even about what.

444

And he said, you know, something

I've always wanted to do is have

445

like this like Catholic whitewater

adventure type program and like teach

446

people about God through rafting.

447

I was like, oh my

448

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

You are like, you're kidding me.

449

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Right,

450

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

That's perfect.

451

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: right.

452

And, and, and it's one of those

moments where as, as a girl internally

453

you might be like, oh my goodness.

454

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

I'm gonna marry this.

455

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

marry you.

456

And luckily I had a shred of

prudence and said nothing.

457

But I also was so awkward.

458

I was like, I have to get out of here.

459

I have to walk away.

460

Like this is like

461

too much for me to handle right now.

462

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

463

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: are.

464

you know, you aren't dating

your first year of focus and

465

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

All right.

466

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

were so faithful to the dating fast,

467

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

468

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

it was so clear we liked each other.

469

It was

470

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

471

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

of obvious.

472

Um, so yeah, so then I, um, I pitched

it to Curtis this, uh, the next year and

473

he's like, Andy, this is a fantastic idea.

474

Like, go figure this out.

475

I want you to go to graduate

476

school.

477

I want you to write the program, and then.

478

And then we can see about, uh,

479

maybe focus, helping you

480

launch this being like a,

481

Parent nonprofit, if

you will, for a moment

482

as you, as you

483

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

484

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Uh,

and that's, exactly what happened.

485

and that's the story where you hear

about all the things that worked out.

486

Right.

487

But what I'm not telling.

488

And what we could talk a whole nother

time talking about is all of the times

489

where it felt like the door was closing

all of the times where it felt like,

490

again, so close to something and then

491

it just fell

492

apart

493

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

494

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: it was

495

a no.

496

And so looking back, I had like,

497

almost like, um, when you get to the top

of a mountain here in Colorado, right?

498

We have our lovely fourteeners

or 13 ERs, whatever.

499

You're hiking and you're doing these

crazy switchbacks and you, you don't.

500

Really understand how it makes

sense to go so far one way then

501

so far to the other

502

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

503

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

until you get.

504

The mountain.

505

And then when you look at the

top of the mountain, you see

506

that that one switchback helped

you avoid like the cliff side.

507

And you see that that other

switchback helped you avoid like

508

the steepest climb ever and made

it much more gradual and doable.

509

And so you see all that from the

top, but you don't really see it when

510

you're going through

511

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

512

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: so

there was a lot of moments where I

513

felt like this is never gonna happen.

514

This is

515

just, I don't understand even

what you're doing, Lord, I am.

516

Having just a lot of doubts

about this, not that he would.

517

Do it.

518

Not that he would be faithful,

but how he was gonna do it and

519

how it was gonna come to be.

520

And maybe it was gonna be, you know, when

I was 40 and not in the younger years

521

that I was hoping it was gonna happen.

522

But then I look back and I'm like, wow,

it actually happened pretty fast actually.

523

It was exactly how it was

supposed to be and thank

524

God those doors closed.

525

The,

526

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

527

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: saying

God clothes that did otherwise, camp

528

TiVo would look totally different and

529

not be what

530

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

You would be where you were

531

right I love what you're

saying about the switchbacks.

532

That is such a great visual.

533

Um, and I feel like so often in our walk

with God, we're like, what are you doing?

534

Like, why didn't you answer this prayer?

535

Like, how did I end up here?

536

Or Why did you close this door?

537

And it seems so confusing sometimes,

even when you're trying to be

538

faithful and truly say yes to the

Lord and following in his plan.

539

I mean, we've had.

540

Stuff like that recently where

we're like, we feel like that

541

God's, God's calling us here.

542

And we walk through it and then

right as we're about to walk in

543

through the door, the door is closed.

544

And we're like, was that

not your plan for us, Lord?

545

Like we like what?

546

So I kind of wanna talk

about that a little bit.

547

Like how do you hold like both the

really big dreams and those desires

548

on our hearts together with like God's

ultimate plan for our life, right?

549

Like, we're not saying that

they're completely different or

550

completely separated because if we

believe it's true that the desires.

551

Of our heart, we're placed

there by God himself.

552

Then there is an alignment with like

our dreams and God's plan, but how do we

553

navigate like chasing our dreams while

also like being open to God's plan and

554

navigating his plan at the same time?

555

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

I think that we have to remember

556

dreams can just be that launching

off pad again for something else.

557

So think that sometimes the

558

dream like takes us to

the next thing that God

559

has for us, but it might not

necessarily be that, like that dream

560

was the end

561

point.

562

And so I think about

even with Camp Foti up,

563

when I first had the dream of the

concept, it looked so different.

564

Than what it looks like today.

565

And a lot of that is because of

different things that happened, uh,

566

different, closed doors, but it was

really the building of a foundation

567

for what camp was going to be.

568

And, and I think of, um, our own lives

and, you know, one, one, like pretty

569

big one for us is, and I think a lot of.

570

of us women, we have

a dream of motherhood.

571

And I think for Scott and I, we

were dreaming of having our family

572

and, you know, three

years into our marriage.

573

We weren't pregnant, then we,

then we, there was reasons, right?

574

there was

575

reasons, for

576

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

577

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

thought, Um, and then led us

578

into the world of adoption

579

wow.

580

Like, so then I realized like my dream

for motherhood and my dream for pregnancy

581

even to care for a child from the very

beginning, it had to get reshaped right?

582

Like I was praying for my child.

583

That I was carrying in my heart, I

was praying for, um, all of these

584

things that had nothing to do with me

585

biologically

586

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

587

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

to them In that way,

588

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

589

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

say I give all of myself all of

590

the time to my kids and it's,

uh, but it's just different.

591

It's just different than, than

how I dreamed it was going to

592

look, and yet it's so beautiful.

593

So, so I think that the Lord places

dreams in our heart, and then

594

they're fulfilled oftentimes in

595

different ways than we imagine,

596

but it's always in the best way.

597

Like it's the way that the

Lord has imagined for us

598

that's way better than what we

599

could have imagined.

600

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

601

Oh gosh.

602

That's so, that's so beautiful and such

an element of surrender that has to

603

play into that total trust of the Lord.

604

And when you start seeing like.

605

Taking the left turn, you didn't

expect in your life to trust like,

606

okay, like I'm trusting you Lord,

that like your plan's better.

607

'cause I didn't see it going this way

and I didn't dream of it going this way.

608

But in the end we just have to

trust that like if God is a good

609

loving father, then the things that

he wants for us are good for us.

610

And given he is.

611

God, the omnipotent, all-loving,

all-knowing creator of the universe,

612

we should be able to trust him

more than we trust ourselves.

613

Um, and it's actually like so much

harder to do than to just say it.

614

I think when we say it that way.

615

It comes, it becomes pretty

clear like, wow, wow.

616

Why don't we trust God?

617

Like he is all, he is all knowing.

618

He made everything we can see and

sense and touch and feel, and we're

619

just like finite human beings.

620

How come I trust myself more

than I trust God, right?

621

But it is harder to like

actually put into play and.

622

Surrender.

623

I feel like plays such a big part

in this, like dreaming big and

624

yet holding God's plan for us.

625

And I've probably shared this on a podcast

episode in the past and I share it all the

626

time with my, um, women I'm walking with.

627

'cause it's something my mom has

taught us growing up ever since

628

we were little that God answers.

629

Every single one of our prayers.

630

Um, and a lot of times we hear

like, oh, like this prayer isn't

631

answered yet, but that's not true.

632

God answers every single

one of our prayers.

633

He doesn't leave us hanging, and he

just answers it in one of three ways.

634

He either says yes, and he answers it

the way that you asked for, or he says,

635

um, yes, but not yet.

636

Like, in my time, I will fulfill that,

or, no, I have something better for you.

637

And so it's never just like a

neglect, it's never just a no.

638

It's never just like, you don't

deserve it or I'm withholding from you.

639

Right.

640

It's always like a, if it, if the answer

is not what you thought it would be, it's

641

always a no, but I have something better.

642

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

A no for a greater

643

yes.

644

Yeah,

645

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

Yeah, exactly.

646

Well, and you might've chatted about this

a little bit already with the story, but

647

have you ever had the experience where

you had a dream or plan that you thought

648

was

649

really clear what you were supposed to do,

but then maybe God like redirected it or

650

reshaped it in a way you didn't expect?

651

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: I mean,

yeah, I think that happens all the time.

652

Um, I think.

653

Again, I think we can do is be faithful to

like what God is asking us in that moment.

654

And yeah, I can think of even things

in camp where I'm like, oh, we

655

need to do this and, and, and start

this, and start this new program.

656

And it's like, so perfect in my mind and

it's gonna look like this and be executed

657

like this and this is gonna be the fruit.

658

And we try it and it's like, oh, that's

actually, that's not what kids are

659

wanting right now, or that's not what

families are able to do because of busy

660

sports schedules and, it's okay because

I think it's okay to to say like, well,

661

that just, it was a worthy effort.

662

It was important to try it.

663

And then you learn so much in the

trying of something and the evaluating

664

of something, and then you're like,

that's not how it's supposed to be.

665

So now let's, what have

we learned from this?

666

How can we take that to a new.

667

A new, uh, a new direction and,

and a new initiative or a new

668

way of doing something.

669

So

670

recognize that every, everything that we

do, uh, whether it's wildly successful

671

or a huge failure, is something

that we can just learn so much from.

672

It's something that we can really, it

takes us to our next starting point.

673

And the next starting.

674

It's like, you know, again,

climbing the mountains, like

675

you're still like at the next.

676

Level, like you're still

going up and up and up.

677

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

Oh, I love that.

678

Yeah, it's just a journey.

679

Like, it's just a journey and like, it,

it takes time to get to the top of the

680

mountain and it's not a straight shot, and

681

we're gonna take turns.

682

We don't, we don't know that

we're going to take, so,

683

no, that's great.

684

How, what advice would you give, um,

685

to someone that wants to take

their dreams into a reality?

686

How can they actually begin

to work to take it there?

687

Especially if, you know, this person

has that fear or that disbelief that

688

they could ever do something big.

689

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

take it to prayer.

690

And like in a very specific way, I would

say, um, your journal write it out.

691

For a lot of years I just wrote out the

dream that I had and I tried to imagine

692

like what a day at camp would feel

like and what I wanted students to walk

693

away with and, and I would just write.

694

And so I think there's a lot of

power to just sitting and dreaming.

695

So imagine it's like, you know, now

we do things in like a board meeting

696

and you know, there's a boardroom

and a white, a whiteboard, and

697

everyone's like throwing out ideas.

698

Well, this is like your time to

do that, but like, just with the

699

Lord, like the Lord is your board.

700

Well, really he's the.

701

board, he's the, he's the chairman,

702

but

703

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

704

Mm-hmm.

705

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

What, what is it gonna do for you?

706

What is it gonna do for the world?

707

Um, how, how

708

might it please the Lord?

709

always in these prayers, anytime we're

praying for any reason, we're trying

710

to align our will with God's will.

711

And we're trying to, to want

what he wants for us, even when

712

that's tremendously difficult.

713

Even when there's an element of suffering

in that we want what he wants because

714

he again, sees that whole picture.

715

He sees the fullness of what he wants

for us and what he wants for the world.

716

for us to ask God, you know, please

align my will with your will as

717

we sit in this dreaming session

718

Just to trust again that God has a

way of, of fulfilling our dreams.

719

And it might not be the way we think

the dream is gonna be fulfilled,

720

but it will always be fulfilled.

721

It will always be something that

fills our heart in a way that

722

is, um, beautiful and incredible.

723

And, and it just, in his

724

in his

725

way.

726

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Mm-hmm.

727

Yeah, no, I, I totally

agree with all that.

728

And some of my favorite moments in

prayer are those dream sessions with

729

the Lord, where he gives me, he gives

me just that freedom to be like, share

730

with me what's on your heart, right?

731

Like, what can we do together?

732

How can we work together to

make these things come to life?

733

And then I'll think a little bit more

practically, I think where people

734

really get stuck is practicals.

735

Like, I think, like they might be

able to dream, but then they're like.

736

But I don't even, you know,

like, how would I even get there?

737

And then, and they think of all

those adult obstacles, right?

738

That you heard when you

started sharing your dream.

739

It's like, well, I'd have to find the land

and I gotta find, uh, someone to fund it.

740

Or how am I gonna raise money?

741

Or how am I gonna build a camp?

742

Like all these practical things.

743

So my advice for people would be start

writing down those practical things,

744

even if you're not gonna act on them yet.

745

Just actually write a list.

746

Okay, this is my big dream.

747

What would the steps be to get from

point A to point B and slowly over

748

time, like actually chip away at them?

749

Um, a lot of people ask us like, how

did you start West Coast Catholic?

750

How did you growth?

751

This amazing brand.

752

I wanna do something similar.

753

And we're like Google, it's like crazy,

but it's like we Googled everything.

754

We were in college, we

didn't know anything.

755

Both of our dads are entrepreneurs,

so we had like an entrepreneur, like,

756

you know, mentor kind of relationship

with our parents, but they didn't.

757

Do what we did.

758

So they didn't have the

answers to exactly what we did.

759

We had to go Google and figure it out

760

and write the plans and learn to

tackle them and try and fail and

761

try and fail until something worked.

762

Um,

763

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Yeah.

764

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: so

even on a very practical level, I

765

encourage you guys to do that as well.

766

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

And uh, one thing I learned in my

767

graduate school studies is, uh, one

of the things I did is I went to

768

school for Adventure Education

769

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

770

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: and

they, one of the taglines was let your

771

community be your classroom.

772

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

773

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

And so just like add to everything

774

you're saying, it's like,

775

who can you go have coffee with

776

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yes.

777

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: ask them

778

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Network.

779

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

can learn something from.

780

And the more people you tell

what you're wanting to do, the

781

more people might say, well.

782

Hey, I kind of wanna do something similar.

783

Maybe we should come

784

together on that project,

785

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

786

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: maybe I

wanna introduce you to so and so because

787

so and so also has

788

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

789

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

similar dream.

790

So

791

more, and it's hard though, right?

792

That's vulnerable.

793

You gotta put yourself

out there and you have to

794

speak that dream out loud, and

knowing that by speaking it,

795

you're like letting everyone

know you want it and then maybe

796

it wouldn't happen, right?

797

We have that

798

fear of disappointment, but

799

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

800

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: just to.

801

Stay so focused in on that and be like,

I'm just gonna keep talking people.

802

I'm gonna

803

keep writing things down, making it

happen, and then seeing where Lord opens

804

doors and where he closes

805

them.

806

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

Yeah, that was so helpful.

807

That is such, such good advice.

808

Let's talk about the dream of

becoming saints as Catholics.

809

That like should be a dream

that's on our hearts, right?

810

Like I think a lot of the times we think

of saints and we think those are the

811

canonized saints, the people who are

very well known in the church, who have

812

great devotions and have contributed

in great ways to the church overall,

813

and, and we recognize them in that way.

814

But the truth is, anybody in heaven

is a saint, and our goal should be

815

to be with Jesus forever in heaven.

816

Like that's what we want.

817

And so therefore, we can say that all

of our dreams should be to be a saint.

818

Um, and so how, how do you feel like

we can become saints in an ordinary,

819

modern life in the midst of our.

820

Daily life, our family, our work,

our relationships, social media.

821

I feel like the task or the dream of

becoming a saint sometimes we feel like

822

is really intimidating when you

just see like our ordinary life and

823

we just think like, oh, we're not

824

Saint Fina,

825

you know, we're not JP two.

826

Like, how can we kind of dream

with that and, and become

827

saints in our ordinary life?

828

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: Well,

I think we also have to be sure that

829

we aren't confusing like sainthood with

830

perfectionism,

831

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Hmm.

832

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215: That

to be a saint is, like you just said,

833

to be in heaven with Jesus someday.

834

And that's what all of us want, no

matter where we are on our path.

835

And, uh, I'd like to think of

Saint Foster and JP two and think,

836

well, they were just faithful to

the daily invitation of the Lord.

837

that's it.

838

Now.

839

Their invitations were really big

840

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Yeah.

841

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

But all of us are given really

842

beautiful invitation single day.

843

And so how are we faithful to that

invitation, that invitation to sit

844

with him in prayer, invitation to.

845

his mercy in the confessional and,

and, and his invitation to follow

846

the dreams that he has for us.

847

And so I

848

think it's just about being

faithful to the little

849

moments and letting him into

every part of who we are.

850

One of the things we talk about, I

Can't wait, Tua, is that Saint Hood

851

isn't, it's not easy, it's simple.

852

It's not easy, but it's simple.

853

The whole concept is.

854

Again, we're not meant to be perfect.

855

We don't live to live these perfect lives.

856

We have to live these faithful lives,

connected all the time to the Lord.

857

And so letting every moment of every

day be a time where Jesus is in your

858

life, where Jesus is speaking to you

and you, I mean, he's always speaking

859

to you, uh, but where we're listening.

860

And so listening to him and what

he's trying to teach us in everything

861

that we do, not just our prayer time,

which is our set aside, very sacred,

862

special time with him, but he's

speaking to us, you know, wherever,

863

whatever state you are in life, right?

864

He's you, you're in high school.

865

He is speaking to you

during your high school day.

866

He's speaking to me during my workday

and during my time with the kids,

867

and he's speaking to me all the time.

868

So it's like listening all the time.

869

What he's trying to say, you know,

where he is trying to, um, move my

870

heart and where he is trying to, uh,

invite me into, you know, different, uh,

871

him.

872

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

I love that.

873

Another thing that that comes to mind

too is when you said, you know, sainthood

874

and holiness is not about perfection.

875

It's really that faithfulness in our

efforts, God knows we're human like.

876

We are on earth.

877

So therefore we are not

saints in heaven yet, right?

878

Like we're not sinless

and he knows our humanity.

879

And something I heard recently.

880

Um, father Bonis, in his book

Personal Prayer, he talks about how

881

God expects us to pray as humans.

882

He doesn't expect us to pray as

angels because we're not angels.

883

He created it as humans.

884

He knows our human limitations

and he expects us to do that.

885

And so when we.

886

Get distracted or like our mind

wanders or you know, like all those

887

human experiences we have in prayer.

888

Sometimes we can be hard on ourselves,

but God's not looking at us like, oh my

889

gosh, you know, there she goes again.

890

Like, why can't she just focus in prayer?

891

And actually all those moments

of distraction, all those human

892

shortcomings are moments where we can.

893

Turn them into offerings, little

offerings of love for God, and just

894

turn our attention back to him.

895

And so I think that was like such a

beautiful, just a beautiful thing to

896

think about and it's been so helpful

for me in my day or my prayer when, and

897

I've, I've become so much more aware

of how distracted I get in prayer.

898

I never thought I was someone who like

got really distracted in prayer, but after

899

hearing that, I've, I've noticed myself.

900

I'm like, I just start talking to

God and then all of a sudden I'm

901

like looking at the floor, like just

zoning out and God's probably like.

902

There she goes again.

903

Like, Hey.

904

And then I remember, and I'm like,

oh, yeah, yeah, we were, we were

905

talking and I'm like, okay, Lord.

906

Like, sorry, like

907

I'm back.

908

I'm back.

909

And so instead of like beating ourselves

up for not being perfect, for not being

910

saintly yet, like let's

recognize our humanity.

911

Offer it to God and be

like, okay, Lord, like

912

I fell short this time, but

I'm gonna try again, right?

913

Like I'm gonna offer it back to you.

914

I'm gonna ask for your grace

and I'm gonna try again.

915

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

Mm, absolutely.

916

And just all of that is so important.

917

'cause I think sometimes we can, can,

take our critical narrative and apply

918

that to God

919

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217: Totally.

920

annie-powell_1_02-11-2026_094215:

Receiving him as the loving

921

heavenly father that he is.

922

And one of the things we also talk

a lot about at Camp Tiwa, but I just

923

also in my own life, I reflect on

this all the time, is the facets of

924

our femininity and the way we receive

and reflect God's love to the world.

925

In the, um, you know, I'm sure

you've heard this a bunch, but

926

you know, first we're daughter,

then we're sister, then bride.

927

Father and really spending a lot of

time on that daughter part and receiving

928

the gaze of the Heavenly Father.

929

mari-wagner_1_02-11-2026_104217:

Absolutely.

930

I love that.

931

I love that.

932

Well, thanks so much, Annie, for

just being willing to come on,

933

share your story and inspiration

and encouragement and dreaming big

934

and dreaming of becoming saints.

935

It's been such a beautiful conversation.

936

So if you're listening and you have

kids in that age range and you wanna

937

send 'em over to Annie, go do that.

938

Or brothers or sisters or nieces

or nephews, um, yeah, definitely

939

get connected with camp with.

940

Thanks so much, Annie,

for coming on today.