Diagnosed recently with both ADHD and autism within the past two years,  Cat Orsini’s candid storytelling takes us on a journey from feeling like an outsider as a child to building a thriving business based on authentic relationships, automation with heart, and radical self-acceptance. 

In this interview, Cat reveals her unique approach to business—one that centers curiosity, genuine connection, and meeting people where they are (with a little tech magic to make life easier and more fun). 

You’ll hear not just the triumphs, but also the complex, sometimes messy moments of “unmasking” and designing a business that fits your actual brain and values, not someone else’s idea of success.

Meet our Guest: Cat Orsini

Cat Orsini has an MBA, is a master-certified coach, an entrepreneur, and co-author of the book "Experts Never Chase." 

She specializes in relationship marketing, strategic conversations, and building automated systems that allow her—and her clients—to focus on human connection over busywork. 

Through radical acceptance of her neurodivergence and trauma history, Cat has crafted a career and life that honors her strengths and refuses to squeeze herself into a neurotypical mold.

Episode Highlights

• Strategic Relationship Marketing vs. Automation
• Cat breaks down why automation and relationship-building aren’t mutually exclusive—and how smart systems can let neurodivergent business owners focus on authentic, meaningful connections.
• Attract, Don’t Chase
• Move over “hustle culture.” Cat and Diann discuss how building genuine relationships and letting people self-select nurtures business without the creepiness or pressure of hard selling.
• Neurodivergent Thriving in Business
• How Cat’s ADHD and autism traits fuel her ability to notice patterns, create unique solutions, and support her clients in efficiently reaching their goals.
• Radical Self-Acceptance
• Cat shares her journey from masking and trauma in corporate environments to embracing her differences and demanding work that fits her—not the other way around.
• Automating the Human Touch
• Learn how emails, follow-ups, and event workflows can be automated, freeing up energy for one-on-one connections with those who are ready for deeper engagement.
• The Power of Knowing Yourself
• Discussion around building business systems that honor your strengths and limitations, rather than struggling to “strengthen your weaknesses” and dilute what makes you unique.
• Ethical Reciprocity & Non-Bro Marketing
• Cat outlines how heart-centered reciprocity builds lasting relationships and why neurotypical tactics often miss the mark for neurodivergent individuals.
• A New Standard for Neurodivergent Entrepreneurs
• The episode closes with hard-won wisdom: Radical self-acceptance and intentional business design are powerful antidotes to burnout—and Cat’s story is proof.

Links & Resources:

• Connect with Cat on LinkedIn
• Learn more about Cat Orsini and her work
• The Book Cat Co-Authored with  - Experts Never Chase

Know someone who identifies with ADHD + Autism (officially diagnosed or not…)? 

Think this episode would inspire them? Here is the link to share it with them, in the most comfy way possible: https://bit.ly/episode-blog-292

© 2025 ADHD-ish Podcast. Intro music by Ishan Dincer / Melody Loops  / Outro music by Vladimir /  Bobi Music / All rights reserved.

H: Cat, one of the things I know about you is that you don't like to just stay inside the box. You don't just play inside the sandbox. You're like, take something over here and something over here and bring them together in a completely new way. One of the first things that attracted me to you and your work is that you talk about creating strategic conversations and relationship marketing. Not to be confused with multi-level marketing, but you also combine that with automation and I'm like, wait, what full stop, aren't those two diametrically opposed things?

G: Yeah, no, they're really not. And one of the reasons is really how I think about things. So I am someone who I hate waste, I hate wasting time, energy, money, all that other stuff. But, you know, we are on the ADHD podcast, so I have ADHD. I also have autism. I was only diagnosed a year and a half ago with ADHD and with autism about two months ago. So, you know, I did all this stuff that my whole business right before I knew I had these things. So this was me just operating in a neurotypical world and still having these kind of values and these, you know, these interesting qualities, right, that I was trying to manage through. And one of the things that I knew and that I can now point to and say, okay, this is you know, an autistic tendency, this is an ADHD tendency was I can't stand monotony.

I was actually fired four separate times before the age of 22 for my lack of ability to pay attention to details. So, it might have been 24, but anyway, that's so autistic like specific date and like, my brain won't let me get away from it. So, you know I can't stand monotony, I can't stand being bored unless it's something that I choose, right? So I don't like something else boring me and I just noticed that there was a lot of things, right, not just that I did, but that my clients did. And the automation wasn't something I ever planned on doing. It's actually an entire second business. I was not one of those people who was really interested in being a serial entrepreneur. But what I noticed was, is as a relationship marketing person, I could give my clients everything.

I have 2,000 templates. I gave them structure, I gave them processes, I gave them systems, I gave them the words, right, the strategy, everything, and they were getting results, right? It wasn't the issue, but it wasn't the results I knew they could really get right. And so it was like, yeah, you're making a lot of money, but it also feels like there's this push. And I don't like the grind and hustle culture and I was just having a lot of conversations around, well, what about this and what about this and what about this and that? This was always the same thing and I was like, okay, one, I don't want to keep having this conversation. It's not necessarily something I can record and, you know, give you access to as a training thing. It was a habit and the habit had to do with an aspect of human interaction.

And so I am a big proponent of bringing the heart back into business. Relationship Marketing is about building relationships and so I started looking at, all right, hold on, this doesn't mean this, you know, because for me, it's like, just because there's a problem doesn't mean that there isn't a solution out there. So even if something was designed to do one thing, doesn't mean I can't make it do what I want. So I started looking at where were my clients really kind of, you know, falling over themselves and kind of getting in their own way.

And it had everything to do with the follow up and so kind of engaging people, having the conversation, staying in touch, keeping top of mind. And it was kind of and it everything from just following up from a conversation to staying in touch on a regular basis. And, you know, I started looking at it and I looked at myself and I was like, all right, you know, how much do I struggle with this? Yes, do I have to put a lot of effort into it? Kind of do. Is it my favorite thing? No. And I was like, but what if I didn't have to do this? And I always ask two questions when I meet something where there's resistance right. Where there's maybe friction, I always ask, how can I make this easier and how can I make this fun?

H: Yeah, those are my two questions too.

G: Right, right so I started looking at, well, what would make this easier? What would make it easier if I didn't have to do it? And so I kind of jokingly said that to myself and I was like, wait, hold on, what if I didn't have to do it?

H: I think we're onto something.

G: Like, what if this was something that I really focused on? What was the part of the relationship that I really needed to be involved in, but what was the other pieces that I didn't really need to do right. That still needed to happen, but that I didn't actually need to do. And so I started diagramming out conversations and looking at, all right, let's see what typically happens in a conversation. And I was like, okay, well, let's say someone comes to your workshop. Well, they either came or they didn't come right. So we're looking at a process flow here right. So these are decision nodes well, if they came, thanks for coming, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

If they didn't come, hey, I missed you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, well, that can be automated because you're only ever really going to say, hey, thanks for coming, or thanks for not coming right. So can we just update this piece of information, which might require a human piece, or depending on how you set up the workshop, you can tell who showed up and that just gets handled. So then I can focus on the people that maybe I had a really good connection with, or someone who basically had raised their hand and said, hey, this is something I'm interested in, and reach out to them directly, knowing that the automation is happening for everybody else and that they're going to get that information.

And that lets me focus on the best opportunities. And in an order that makes sense of not just everybody. Everybody gets that touch point but who are the people who are ready right now? And then focusing on the people that are becoming ready and releasing the people that don't, not to go off, but to engage them to see if there's other people they know that might be ready or becoming ready.

H: You literally just created an entire mind map in my brain by talking me through this. It's like a bunch of people show up, but they're not all in the same place right. Let's say you do a webinar. Let's say you do a workshop. Let's say you, whatever it is.

G: Even in person networking, it applies to every interaction you're going to have with a human.

H: Every interaction. And you know what's I really have to laugh about this is that this outdated idea that people who are on the autism spectrum lack communication skills. This is next level communication skills where you are looking at all the possible connections.

G: Yeah. I call it choose your own adventure where nobody dies. Well, I mean, if you think about it, that's what we're doing. So we're having, you know, we're reading chapter one. We read the first page da, da, da. This is what happens, here's a scenario. And I just, I remember there's this otter book that I read. And the otter had the choice between going after the slow fish or the faster fish, right? So if you want the fast and at the end it said fast fish, turn to page 62. You want the slow fish, turn to page 12. So you would turn that page, see, we are humans, we are all unique and different, but our behavior is often very predictable.

H: As much as we hate to admit it.

G: Right, but there's only really so many outcomes to a situation. So, sure, I talked about the person who registered that they show up, not show up. Well, the person who didn't register, right. Are they in what buckets do they fit in? Are they interested? Not interested. Have they engaged? Not engaged. And you can create this system on the back end. Because here's the important thing, and this is the piece that also blows people's mind too, is there's interactive data and then there's behavioral data. And what I mean is you and I can talk. Maybe we meet at a networking event and you tell me what you do and I'm like, oh, yeah, great and I'm telling you I'm not interested. But we're having a good connection and I'm like, oh, there's people I can introduce you and connect you to. So you're like in your brain. Cool.

Referral partner, right? This is a power partner. This is someone cool. This is someone who could be my friend, right? And then the behavioral data, this is the piece that most entrepreneurs do not pay attention to. And I'm talking about people crossing six figures into nine figure businesses. And they're not paying attention to the behavioral data. So you've classified me in your brain as a referral partner. Cool. There's no loss here. However, let's say two weeks from now, I remember something you said.

Now I'm in that place where I'm like, oh, yeah, that might be something I need. So what do I do? I go on your website, I click here, I download this. Maybe I sign up for this other thing, right? Maybe I even email you, what are you doing and are you collecting that data? Because now my system would say, oh, Cat is a potential lead. And ding, certain activities, sends you an email saying, hey, Cat is a warm lead. Now you're getting that email and you're going, wait, hold on, I thought she was a referral partner. Let me go check out what she's been doing, whoa she's been all over the website. She read my about page, she was on there for about five minutes.

Then she clicked over to the program page. Hmm, maybe, now this is the human piece or it can be automated too. You can have all of this happen and then you can send out an email because you have anticipated what path someone might fall on. And that email, and there's certain activities then activates, Hey, Cat, I noticed that you, you know, we're checking out some stuff about xyz, I actually have some ideas for you. Would you be open to jumping on a quick call to make it easy? I just went ahead and dropped my calendar link here right and then maybe the system notices.

H: It's also a little bit creepy that you're like, wait a minute, how does she know what I'm thinking?

G: Sure, but you know what but here's the thing it could be creepy or it could be relief, because that person could have been like, oh, wow, she sees me right? And if that's something that's not in alignment with you, you don't have to turn on that feature right? So this is that you don't have to do it a certain way. There's no rules and laws when it comes to marketing and human interaction. So you get to decide how the experience is for someone else. If you know and you should know your ideal client this well, if you know that will put your ideal client off, don't do it. But I know that my people, some of them are waiting to be asked out.

H: You know what? Because I'm protective of other neurodivergent people. Kind of like a mama bear in that way, how sensitive many of us are. And because of all the stories heard about how people just really get batted about, my first inclination was, oh, that's creepy. But as you continued to share, I realized, you know, and this won't surprise you, one of the most frequent pieces of feedback I get from my clients is I've never felt so seen. Seen like, you see me, you get me. I don't have to explain like, you get it before I've even I mean, it's at first, it's unsettling if they haven't experienced it before. But it's not only a tremendous sense of relief, it's also efficient as fuck. Because you don't have to explain anything or mask.

G: Right, let me caveat this with certain paths only expose themselves after a certain level of interaction. So that path is not something that might happen right off the bat with someone you've never met. I'm just trying to kind of expose some of the different options that people are not thinking about that could be automated.

H: It’s so much more nformation that's available to you right. Like, I mean, when you think about the frustrations that people have with strategic relationship marketing, we know who we're trying to connect with, we know why we're trying to connect with them, we know where they hang out, we know how to approach, we know what they're interested in. But what we don't know in most cases is what they're thinking, how they're feeling and what they're going to do next. What you're talking about based on the fact that people are more predictable than they realize and that we realize we can notice those micro decisions and those micro actions and what they reveal to us if we choose to have that level of information and if we choose to act on it, we might not. We can say my intuition, because here's I want to know, because I know you are a highly intuitive person. We talked about this in our first meeting. Like, where does intuition come in? When you're looking at the behavioral data and your intuition tells you, I see what this is telling me, but my spidey senses are telling me something else.

G: Yeah. So I tend to look at the intuition more from what am I trying to avoid versus what I tend to lean towards, which is what am I trying to claim. So instead of the spidey sense kind of focus, I tend to look at where I'm excited. So if I'm excited about someone, if I'm like, oh my God, you're amazing, you're awesome. And then so my first level qualifier is, do I even like you as a human being? If I don't like you, I don't want to work with you. I can make anyone money, it's not a problem. But I don't want to make bad people right more money. I want to work with people who have heart right. Who have this knowing because this was me.

I had a knowing that I was going to be successful. It didn't matter what I saw in front of me and did I have my low moments? Absolutely but I always had that knowing, I am going to figure this out. Those are my people because I know that there is a block in front of them and they can't figure out and quite see what it is. I'm literally like, this is what it is. It takes me 30 seconds and then it's just a matter of supporting them through helping them get out of their own way by creating structure and systems that allow them to move down the path faster and faster every time they walk it.

H: You do something in your business that was surprising to me and now I'm like, yes, ma'am. Now it completely makes sense. It was very easy for me to make a first appointment with you. Like, you caught my eye, I was reading the book that you co-wrote, Experts Never Chase, brilliant title, by the way. Excellent book. And I thought, I want to have a chat with her. And I think you had just commented somewhere online, Cat, that you were adjusting to your new ADHD diagnosis. I'm like, I fucking knew it, now I have to talk to her. You didn't set up a lot of barriers to that first conversation. In fact, I don't even remember if when I filled out the form, if I had to acknowledge what it was I wanted to talk to you about.

G: The question wasn't even there.

H: No, it wasn't. And this is what's so fascinating, and how you can see your values and the way you think and what you prioritize just in the choices that you make in your business you are most interested. Before we talk about any kind of meaningful exchange, before I hire you, before you hire me, before we do a collaboration, before I accept an invitation to be a guest on your podcast, any of those things, I need to meet you. I need to experience you. I need to see if I like you and if I want to get to know you better. Because before I know that, I really don't care about any of the rest. All the rest is going to be a hard no if that doesn't go well.

So you really made it quite easy for us to connect. And I remember thinking at the time, this just feels like I'm just hanging with a friend that I just met, a new friend. And I thought, okay, when is she going to start asking me specific questions and it kind of didn't go that way. And now I realize the brilliance of that your screen is not okay, what kind of relationship is this going to be? Referral, partner, strategic partner, content, collaborator, client. It's like, do I even like this person? And everything else follows from there, which makes a whole lot of sense because we do not have endless amounts of energy and they get completely drained by people we don't like in any capacity.

G: Exactly. And the thing that someone will be one of four things. You'll be a potential client, you'll be a collaborator, a connector, or it's going to be a miss one of those three. If not, one of those four. If not, you know the three will happen right. So I typically someone very rarely will fit into that fourth category. And so usually I say it's just a client, collaborator, or connector. And the reason is my marketing is loud enough that you know who you're talking to. And you, if you can't handle this, you're not going to schedule that call to, to chat with me kind of thing. So I don't need that barrier because I know one of those three things will happen. It's again, it's a knowing, because my focus is, how can we elevate each other?

Sometimes it's me helping and working with you. Sometimes it's the opposite and there's always an opportunity to collaborate and connect. And so I don't ever actually, I don't focus on the client piece. My first focus is how can I support this person? My commitment to every single call is there is at least probably one person I can connect you to and I look and listen for that. How can I make that introduction or connection? Sometimes it doesn't happen and it's okay. This is strategic advice kind of stuff. But it's I go into those conversations with what can I offer of value, how can I give? And not from a place of the trauma, which is the only value I have in the world, is what I can do for someone else. My focus is how can I turn this into a friendship?

Because my collaborators and connectors, right, my power partners are not these, hey, this is just business. There's no just business with me, it's just Cat. I become friends with my clients, I've had very late night conversations with some of them around personal issues on both sides. I've called clients before in tears saying, this is what's going on right now. Can I talk to you right now? And not right away, guys, I'm just, you know, yes, the too muchness, right. But I'm saying it develops over time because I don't want to solo myself I did that in corporate. And when I was in corporate, I was a very different version of this, I was masked up. I'm not talking about one mask, multiple masks. Over the past three years, I have been unmasking and it's been like turbo speed since I've gotten my diagnosis.

H: Let's talk more about that because being successful in corporate environments, academic environments, non-profit environments, even in the field of mental health, I'm so sorry to say, neurodivergent people find it absolutely necessary as a survival strategy to mask up. And you have been joyfully revealing yourself and doing so in record time. Before we talk about the decision to do that and really the experience of that and how people are responding to it, I want to take you back a little bit to before you knew you were autistic and ADHD. You definitely knew there was something different about you. I suspect you've always known from a very young age. Can you share some of your, what I call attributional theories? Like before you knew it was ADHD, what were the other, what were the other labels you slapped on yourself and thought, yeah, this describes some of it, but I don't think this is the whole deal.

G: You know, I didn't really find any labels. I just knew that I was different and not in a good way, right? And it was like, I'm special, but only in my brain and everybody else. Like, you know, I knew I wasn't a bad person, but I just didn't fit in right. It was always, you know, when because it wasn't very often I had friends. It wasn't friends like we think of it. It was people who tolerated my presence growing up. And so it was, you know, I was on the outside of the circle looking in, and they just were like, you know, okay, well, she's standing there.

H: They let you press your nose to the glass they didn't invite you in.

G: That's what it was, right? Without putting something in front of me, not everybody did. And so I had a panic disorder. Since I was can one of my earliest memories at like 5 was having a panic attack. And basically I thought until the age of 18 that I was the only person in the world that had this thing because I didn't have a name for it that happened to them and it caused all kinds of emotional trauma. And, you know, I was a social pariah and all this. I was bullied and just all this stuff, right happened that just kind of perpetuated it. And so around the age of 18, I found a name and I was like, oh, it's a panic attack. Like I had finally been able to figure out what this thing was. And I got on medication when I was 20. And so that was the first time that I started kind of living right. So up to that point.

And at the age of 22, I was 320 pounds. So it was just, you know, trauma, food consumption things like that. So, the weight also didn't help with my ability to fit in, literally, physically or with other people, because there is social not only just being a little bit odd, but now I'm the fat girl. And there's no problem with however much you weigh like, but we didn't have body positivity when I was growing up. I grew up in the anorexic chic era of time. And so this was not acceptable in terms of how to look. It was non desirable. I was persona non grata from, you know, any way I showed up. But there were just things that I just couldn't figure out that I could see other people doing. And it wasn't until it was my Senior year of high school that I started figuring out how to work the academic system. What's interesting is I can look back at it now and be like, wait a minute, I made dean's list every quarter in school. And yet it wasn't until the age of 18 that I thought that I had some kind of level of intellect.

That doesn't quite add up, right. So I had finally at least been able to figure out how to be self sufficient in the school system and get good grades. I was able to carry that into college. I just kept my notes in the books and you know, didn't have a social life. So yeah, by the time I was 26 was when I first started living. It was the first time I was, you know, the weight that I wanted to be. I was living independently, you know, I was living independently at 23. I'd buy my first condo then, but I felt like I am living. And I just, up to that point I had, like I said, I'd been fired four times. Like talk about having, I'm already overweight not happy about it.

I don't have any friends, I'm living alone in this studio apartment. You know, I've been fired multiple times now. I have no self esteem, no value and it was a decision where I said, wait a minute, I have value. And that was the first time things started changing where I was like, I have something to bring to the table and I'm not going to keep hiding. I fought tooth and nail for and negotiated my salary for the job that I was going into. I have had that innate, even though you may not see me as a human that has value, I am going to be paid as a human that has value. That was something that I always had. Just like I had a knowing that I was always going to be successful. And so those two things were just, that was bedrock for me right. Those two things could not be cracked.

H: I’m a former therapist and I often think once a therapist, always a therapist. So I in no way want what I'm about to say to invalidate the lived experience of anyone listening to this conversation. And there is such incredible power in deciding to radically accept yourself even if no fucking body else does. Because sometimes we are so different, we are so exceptional. Our neurodivergence is so profound that there literally isn't a place where we are going to naturally fit in and be accepted and belong as our full selves unmasked. So being able to create that space, and we're going to talk about how you've done that in your business, being able to create that space for yourself is a must. And it must be predicated by you deciding, even if nobody else agrees, I have value.

I am here for a reason, I have something to contribute, and my success is inevitable, and I'm going to be paid well enough that I can live independently as I choose. Though nobody could have offered you permission, nobody could have granted you the right to those thoughts. You claimed them. And it's kind of like when you hear about people, like, hitting rock bottom. Like, you're not an alcoholic, but you hit rock bottom with your weight. You hit rock bottom with trying to fit into the corporate life. You hit rock bottom with being accepted by other people.

And you decided, I'm going to rebuild the whole thing, starting with accepting myself and you have. It's remarkable and I'd like to think, Cat, I'm, like, totally optimistic in this regard. I'd like to think it's possible for any of us, when we're ready to name it and claim it. And I understand you had to crawl through a lot of trauma. I've had to crawl through a lot of trauma to get to the point where that was even a possibility. But I really, really want to hold space for that being a possibility for all of us.

G: It's an absolute possibility because it's a choice. It's a choice. It's a verb, right? It's something that you can choose over and over again, and you can conjugate in whatever tense that you want. You want it to be in the past tense, then it'll be in the past tense. If you want it to be in the future tense, then it will. And it can always be conjugated in the present tense. And, you know, it's really just around and the radical acceptance isn't just in what you want, it's also accepting your limitations. And that's part of what I had to do. I got fired those four times because one of the times was because I couldn't file properly. I know my Alphabet, and I know it in four different languages, right?

So because I speak four languages, I know I know it, but I could not and it's not, I don't have dyslexia, but for whatever reason, my mind would go to mush, and I would not be able to put that. This was back in the financial aid office where you pulled physical files. They had to be in alphabetical order or you had no idea. And it's not like it was like I was switching my Ds and my Ps. It would be in this most random place ever and so I got fired, rightfully so. You can't argue that. I can't say I was a victim to that, I couldn't file it. I remember the second transition that I had was, you know, there's been just these milestones of buying my first place and being determined to do it right?

So having the gastric bypass surgery, buying my first place, negotiating for the hell out of that job after I'd been fired those four times so that I could make sure that I afforded my place and had things. And I remember, you know, and a couple other things, but I remember when I was at Booz Allen, this was in my corporate career, and I was starting to get the same feeling of, oh, I'm ready to X now, I'm fucking up, right? Again like, there's these little details that I'm not paying attention to. And the trauma from having been fired so many times was, oh, my God, I'm gonna get fired again. Oh, my God, oh, my God, and so, you know, talk about someone who already lives in fight or flight being autistic, right? And ADHD and then complex trauma, you know cause let's just put a bow on this.

H: Well, and your brain has lots of experience with panic attacks, and the more times that's happened, the easier it is for your brain to go there again, right?

G: Every ounce of me has lived in fight or flight for the entirety of my life, essentially. And so I was like, I can't and I just made this very simple decision. And it came when I first started doing some personal development. And what I realized was, is I have been told my entire life that I need to strengthen my weaknesses. Strengthen your weaknesses, become better at this thing that you suck at, right? Never double down on your strengths. It was strengthen your weaknesses, strengthen your weaknesses. You have to be a beige, a full beige person, right? And I was like, but I'm red and you're telling me to dilute myself and to focus on these weaknesses, but then I'm atrophying my strengths. And that's was the relationship that I was seeing and I was like, like, I'm done. I can't do this anymore and I was like, I am no longer going to allow myself to be in situations where I have to do the work that's aligned to my weaknesses. I'm going to say no or I'm going to find someone else to do it and I'm going to double down on my strengths and all of a sudden I started your business.

H: That was the origin story of your business really. I don't know how long it was before you started your business after that, like, moment of reckoning.

G: It is the origin story of my business because the personal development work that I was doing was getting my coaching certification and it was exposing me to all of these concepts that I had never been exposed to before. And it was just, I mean, talk about a hockey stick experience where just. And it was just all these innate strengths of, okay, I can't do this, but I'm not going to leave it in the lurch. So this person and just again, promoted, got the number one employee award in the company, right like promoted again. You know, ended up having and getting promoted twice and having had three kids like in that time span was just on, I was on track, I kept going. I would have eventually made partner at some point, but my soul was dying because even though now I was really good at what I was doing and I was being recognized and awarded financially and with words because good Lord, please validate the hell out of me, right?

H: Yes.

G: It wasn't enough now that's all I ever wanted. I just wanted that pat on the head, that's all I ever did. That's why I got my MBA was to get out of being an admin and to start getting those accolades of you are somebody and you're worth something. And then I started saying, oh my God, I got the thing that I wanted and it's not enough. This was supposed to be the American dream. I got the corporate thing, I got the MBA, I've got the six figure salary like, I've got this, I've got that. I'm supposed to be happy. Like everything on paper says I'm supposed to be happy and I am not. What's wrong with me? And I was like, well, I'm not doing work that I like.

Wait a minute, do I have a choice in this because I should be grateful, right? I'm supposed to appreciate and I did. But I wanted more and it was that knowing of, I will be more successful, I will be happy and I wasn't. And so I started then talk about ADHD, autism, and, you know, superpowers of like, all right, here's a plan, here's the thing, here's what I'm gonna do. I don't need you to give me a box. I'll build the damn box myself and check it right. And it was just as much as that. I started working 50% of my business and 50% at booze. I closed the gap, I made the jump, and I haven't looked back.

H: It's really such a remarkable story of resilience. And I obviously, you're highly intelligent, obviously, you know, you're white. You've got those privileges. But you also had plenty of jokers in your deck too.

G: I think I just had a lot of instructions in my deck. Because you can play a joker, you can't play the instruction cards.

H: You're absolutely right. Duly noted and I will tell you, I never read the instructions. I always call them destructions because they're not meant for brains like ours. And the thing I want people to hear most of all from your story is that we fundamentally have to be the ones to give ourselves permission to have meaningful work that is aligned with our strengths. And nobody else can give you that permission. You have to sign your own permission slip. And most of the time, if you're high ability, and I'd say you and I are both high ability, we both have master's degrees. We succeeded in the neurotypical world at our own expense, and some part of us realized it at the time. And I think for a long time I refused to leave that world because I had fought so hard to be successful in it. even though I was miserable.

And just really realizing, you know, it is not necessary to crash out before you get out, but creating a business that works with your autism, that works with your ADHD, that works with the stage of life you are. Like, now you're a single mom with several kids, like being able to work all that in, there aren't a lot of mentors and role models for that and there's not a lot of permission. When you think about the fact that you've only known for a couple of months that you're autistic and not much longer than that, that you're ADHD. Can you now see, as you look back on obviously the decision to become self-employed, but like, how you've built your business, how you've scaled your business, how you've structured your business, and all the systems within it. Can you now see, like oh, yeah, oh, that, well, that explains. Yep, oh, yep, that's the ADHD in me, that's the autism in me. Like, it's worked its way through everything you've done even before you knew it, it was there.

G: Oh, yeah, and I knew something, you know, and I say something was off, something was different as compared to a neurotypical person right. I can look at it now and be like, oh, I can see the gift in this. I can see the value in this. You know, but there's still, I’m one of few compared to the population, is what I mean right. So it's easy to have that mindset of this is how I'm different versus this is how I'm special. Because we think of special as special right like, special you know, kind of thing. And I can I mean, when I found out I was ADHD now, I had suspicions, but it wasn't until I was 40 that I had I suspected.

And it came through one of those videos where it was like, put your finger down kind of thing. And then it was like, if you put your finger down and I literally was like, how do you know all of my secret shame names? How do you know that this is I do other people do this because I thought I was the only one that did this kind of crazy stuff. And to have it be out on a public stage like that and then it said, well, then you probably are ADHD. I had an existential crisis for five minutes, and it took me two years to actually get assessed so ADHD.

And so what it did was it didn't change anything. Didn't change a damn thing. I was still who I am. I'd already started unmasking because I needed to, for my own ability to breathe, which is me coming out in my business and being more me, which then allowed more of my people. And I don't mean ADHD or autistic people like me and with my values right to gravitate towards me. That allowed me to be more gracious with myself. And what I mean is I was able to look back at my childhood, and the autism was then able to help me take that even a level deeper. So I wasn't a deviant, malicious, difficult child. That's what I was told, that's what I felt like. That's what I was labeled, that's how I was treated. You know, I had autism, I didn't understand what you were asking of me.

That's why I asked why, that's why I didn't complete it because my brain cannot move forward if I don't have the logic behind why I'm doing something. I literally physically get stuck and so now that I know that I'm able to take that and implement things faster, but I was able to look back at that three year old, that four year old, that five year old who wasn't complying immediately and go, oh, it's not because xyz, it was because of abc. And so, you know, I could just love on myself a little bit more and not fault and be bitter as much with other people. So, and be able to say, you know what we were at a different consciousness back then. People were at their own level of evolution, right? ADHD is like totally acceptable now.

Autism, I feel like, is still getting there, right? But you know, ADHD is like the cool kids club now kind of thing, and it's not right and I don't care. You have it, you don't have it whatever. What having the labels did for me was it allowed me to embrace it, which meant that at any given time I could have said, you know what, I think I'm autistic or ADHD, researched it, looked at what the structures are, how the brain operates and be able to, I could not embody it and accept it until the label came through. When the label came through, I could then say, okay, this is almost like this is real and here are some systems and strategies that I can use to help, blah, blah, blah, right? And I could start understanding my thought patterns.

I could start looking at where is this popping up with this, you know, this confluence of these three things of ADHD, autism and complex trauma, and how is it helping me and how is it potentially aggravating? How are they fighting each other and how are they helping each other, right? Because they can fight against me or they can support me. And so being able to kind of start looking at where I have friction in my life, how are those things influencing that experience and is there something I can change with my relationship with those labels that then allow me to create more success.