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What is the Power of Storytelling? Interview with Kristin N. Spencer
Episode 21 • 6th December 2022 • Ongoing Mastery: Presenting & Speaking • Kirsten Rourke
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In this week's episode of Ongoing Mastery: Presenting & Speaking, Kirsten talks with Kristin N. Spencer, the Ghostwriting Copywriter and owner of Literary Symmetry. Kristin sees her job as listening carefully and pulling out key details in her clients’ stories, because everyone needs a coach to help them get out of their own way.

Key take-aways:

  • Know, like, and trust isn’t just a sales & marketing technique; it’s about building relationships 
  • The heart of Ongoing Mastery is to try, to fail, and to keep going
  • You have to practice talking about your own failure, because clients won’t believe that you’re perfect anyway

Rourke Training’s webpage: https://www.rourketraining.com/

Ongoing Masgtery: Presenting & Speaking page: https://ongoing-mastery.captivate.fm/

RSS feed: https://feeds.captivate.fm/ongoing-mastery/

Read a transcript of this episode: https://share.descript.com/view/bma7i50vDB4

For the video version of this episode: https://youtu.be/nJ5-KGTza9s

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirstenrourke/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kirstenmalenarourke

Twitter: https://twitter.com/kirstenrourke?lang=en

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rourketraining/

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Transcripts

Kirsten:

Hello everyone.

Welcome to Ongoing Mastery:

Presenting & Speaking, the podcast and the interview.

Welcome to Ongoing Mastery:

Today, we are interviewing Kristin Spencer, who is the power of storytelling

Welcome to Ongoing Mastery:

personified, and I'm gonna have her tell you her story, starting right now.

Welcome to Ongoing Mastery:

Hi, Kristin.

Kristin:

Hi Kirsten.

Kristin:

We have name friends, right?

Kristin:

Where, like,

Kirsten:

Yes

Kristin:

Do you get called Kristen?

Kristin:

I get called Kirsten all the time.

Kirsten:

I get, I get called Kristen, I get called Kirsten.

Kirsten:

Karastan is the one that bugs me, because that's a brand of rug.

Kristin:

Kirsten:

That's the one that's my least favorite.

Kristin:

Okay.

Kristin:

I've never heard that.

Kristin:

So that's unique to you, I feel.

Kirsten:

I, it's probably to me, but I also have Kierstein

Kirsten:

Rorique was my, I'm like, really

Kristin:

What?

Kirsten:

Really pushing it.

Kirsten:

It's Kirsten Rourke, but they were looking at it spelled out

Kirsten:

and I think they were just trying desperately to figure out what it was.

Kirsten:

So,

Kristin:

Yeah.

Kristin:

So, oh, my story, right?

Kirsten:

Your story.

Kirsten:

So, as a storyteller, yes.

Kirsten:

What is your gig?

Kirsten:

What do you do?

Kirsten:

What's your thing?

Kristin:

Yeah, so I'm obsessed with storytelling.

Kristin:

I used to stalk my parents around with a pile of books until I could

Kristin:

read when I was four, and I thought that I shouldn't be a writer because

Kristin:

it seemed really impractical to me.

Kristin:

Like, I was gonna write my first novel when I was 13 and I was

Kristin:

like, "No, I can never make money at this," as a 13 year old, right?

Kristin:

Like, maybe I should have been a kid longer is what I'm thinking now, but, so,

Kristin:

I kind of avoided storytelling, honestly, until I couldn't avoid it anymore.

Kristin:

I had a friend who was taking a comparative world literature class

Kristin:

and he kept talking about it.

Kristin:

And so I stalked him and I went to the class and I was like,

Kristin:

"Oh my gosh, this is for me."

Kristin:

But then I realized that it's difficult to make money as a writer, which my

Kristin:

13 year old self knew and was right.

Kirsten:

Mm-hmm.

Kristin:

And so I was like, "Okay, what kind of writers make money?"

Kristin:

And I was doing a, you know, cursory job search, and I saw two different

Kristin:

descriptions from the same company.

Kristin:

One was for editing, which I'm a certified copy editor, and the pay was $30,000.

Kristin:

And then right under it was a spot for copywriting for

Kristin:

a hundred thousand dollars.

Kristin:

And I was like, "I'm in the wrong industry."

Kristin:

So, I switched.

Kristin:

That's what happened.

Kirsten:

Yeah, and for those on the podcast, in the video, I'll,

Kirsten:

I'll hold the bag up so you can see it, but on the podcast, if you're

Kirsten:

hearing wrinkling, that's because I'm opening a bag of treats from my dog.

Kirsten:

Because she's behind me making small noises

Kristin:

For Angel

Kirsten:

It is unhelpful.

Kirsten:

There you go, Dingus.

Kirsten:

So yeah, I have been on the receiving end of your power and it is pretty awesome.

Kirsten:

You actually pull out

Kristin:

Oh, thank you

Kirsten:

People's stories really, really well.

Kirsten:

How did you start that?

Kristin:

On accident, honestly.

Kristin:

I was like desperate for money.

Kristin:

All of my copyediting clients had basically taken

Kristin:

a pause during COVID, right?

Kristin:

Because that's not a necessity, for someone to copyedit the book that you've

Kristin:

been dreaming of writing for 10 years.

Kristin:

And I was like, "I need to pay my bills.

Kristin:

My husband can't work.

Kristin:

What am I gonna do?"

Kristin:

And so, I did this challenge called 10 Days to 1K by Rachel Peterson.

Kristin:

And I just put my stuff everywhere and I was like, "I can write copy."

Kristin:

Like, I had done a copy training, copywriting training.

Kristin:

It wasn't that great, but I, I knew I could do it even better

Kristin:

than what the program taught.

Kristin:

And so I just listed my stuff everywhere and two people hired me as a ghostwriter.

Kristin:

And I was like, "Okay, I can do this.

Kristin:

I write books all day."

Kristin:

I did this experiment one time where I wrote 125,000 words in five

Kristin:

weeks just to see if I could do it.

Kristin:

Because that's what kind of person I am.

Kristin:

I'm strange in that way.

Kirsten:

Okay, but repeat that.

Kirsten:

You did what?

Kirsten:

I'm sorry.

Kristin:

I wrote, I wrote 125,000 words in five weeks.

Kirsten:

Dear Lord, okay .

Kristin:

I just wanted to see how fast I could write, because I

Kristin:

felt like I'm getting really fast.

Kristin:

Let me just see if I can

Kirsten:

I'm looking over at my producer.

Kirsten:

She's just nodding with like, respect.

Kirsten:

That's all I'm getting from her.

Kirsten:

She's giving you the, she oh

Kristin:

She, she's a writer.

Kirsten:

She's giving the

Kristin:

so she understands.

Kirsten:

Yeah, yeah 125,000 words in five weeks.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Kristin:

So, I was like, I knew I could do it, right?

Kristin:

And

Kirsten:

Yeah

Kristin:

So, they hired me and I wrote them books and one person

Kristin:

listened to everything I said, and they didn't make a ton of changes.

Kristin:

And one person made a ton of changes, including, they literally shredded the

Kristin:

intro, which is the most important part.

Kristin:

And the person who did everything I said, their book is a best seller.

Kristin:

They, everyone keeps calling their book unicorn, right?

Kristin:

Like, and all I did was ask him questions, because that's

Kristin:

my whole job as a copywriter.

Kristin:

I ask people questions all day.

Kristin:

And as an editor that's what I would do, is ask questions all day.

Kristin:

So, yeah, his book is amazing.

Kristin:

I can't say who I wrote for, because obviously I'm the ghost.

Kristin:

You don't get to know what book it is.

Kirsten:

Yep

Kristin:

But the other person just tanked and I knew exactly why.

Kristin:

And also they didn't wanna pay my copy editor, so they hired, I don't wanna

Kristin:

say a baby, I feel like he was 17.

Kristin:

Like I saw him, and I was like, "Oh, he's a baby."

Kristin:

And the table of contents alone, I counted 13 egregious errors.

Kristin:

I was just like, "Oh my God."

Kirsten:

Wait a second.

Kirsten:

That got past editorial?

Kristin:

I mean, he hired a 17 year old as his editor.

Kirsten:

Okay, so I, I missed that part, because I was like, "Okay,

Kirsten:

he's, he's doing the copy editing, but there's gotta be somebody

Kirsten:

further down the pike that would"

Kristin:

No

Kirsten:

No

Kristin:

That was it.

Kirsten:

Oh wow.

Kristin:

And, like, you could tell.

Kristin:

No CMoS, and for those listening, CMoS is the Chicago Manual of Style.

Kristin:

We're currently in the 17th edition.

Kristin:

Hopefully, the 18th edition will have the singular "they" back in there.

Kristin:

It better, whoever's listening to this, whomever's listening to this.

Kirsten:

I'm seeing the thumbs up out of the the peripheral vision from

Kirsten:

Kellie going, "That would be good."

Kirsten:

Kristin:

Yeah, because they had it and then they took it away.

Kristin:

We're like, "What?"

Kristin:

But, so, like, editors don't just come and decide, "I feel

Kristin:

like this should look like this."

Kristin:

We have standards we use and so that actually helped me being an editor.

Kirsten:

Well, some of you have standards you use.

Kirsten:

Some of you.

Kristin:

That's true.

Kristin:

Anyone, anyone can call themselves a copyeditor.

Kristin:

I'm certified, which means I definitely use standards, and I

Kristin:

went through a year of hell fire and crying to get that certification.

Kirsten:

Well, as somebody who primarily does instructional

Kirsten:

design in my work, yeah.

Kirsten:

Instructional design is a field that not only is most people don't know what it

Kirsten:

is and can't explain it, every single place it's done, it's done differently.

Kristin:

Right

Kirsten:

There's not actually a standard.

Kirsten:

There's supposed to be, but there's not.

Kristin:

Oh, you could make one.

Kirsten:

The Masters I got was, well the Masters I got, I argued with

Kirsten:

the school that some of the stuff they were teaching us was crap.

Kirsten:

And they were like, "Well, but see, that the K to 12 people use this thing

Kirsten:

and it's really important to them."

Kirsten:

And I'm like, "But the science debunked it."

Kirsten:

So, we should explain

Kristin:

You love that.

Kirsten:

That learning styles, and I'm just gonna go off on a little

Kirsten:

tangent here, learning styles,

Kristin:

Yeah, do it.

Kirsten:

Is a lovely, lovely thing.

Kirsten:

It's an addition.

Kirsten:

It's, yes, if you can follow somebody's learning styles, it's their

Kirsten:

preference, but scientifically, people don't actually learn, the people

Kirsten:

who are like, "I'm a X learner,"

Kristin:

Mmm-mm

Kirsten:

Actually, you're really not.

Kirsten:

You have a strong preference, but if it's taught properly, you can

Kirsten:

actually be taught in any method.

Kristin:

That's the thing though.

Kirsten:

That's what the science shows.

Kristin:

Teaching properly, that's, that's the part that people are probably missing.

Kirsten:

So, if you see business instructional designers, and you see K

Kirsten:

to 12 instructional designers, you will see the ones who are like, "Learning

Kirsten:

styles are the best thing ever," because that's what they've been taught,

Kirsten:

and the people who are like and holding up cross and going,

Kirsten:

"Get away from me with that term," so it's a little, yeah, it's not subtle.

Kirsten:

So our podcast is Ongoing Mastery,

Kristin:

Yes

Kirsten:

Which is your work.

Kirsten:

How does ongoing mastery show up for you?

Kristin:

So, and I'm sure you get this answer a lot, but I have

Kristin:

to say it, because it's true.

Kristin:

For me, I'm a lifelong learner.

Kristin:

I'm obsessed, and you can tell, I think you can tell I'm obsessed.

Kristin:

When new things come out, I read them.

Kristin:

When new studies are revealed, I go through and I make notes in

Kristin:

the abstract, like someone who is obsessed because that's what I am.

Kristin:

And for me, it also means practicing constantly and pushing myself to do

Kristin:

new things that I haven't done before.

Kristin:

And, you know, you're a part of that.

Kristin:

That's how I got to be friends with Kirsten is, she's like,

Kristin:

"Hey, you're making a keynote.

Kristin:

Let me help you."

Kristin:

And then I went to her, and I was, like, shaking and nervous,

Kristin:

and, like, wanted to throw up.

Kristin:

And, like, five minutes in, she stopped me and she's like, "Okay, you have these

Kristin:

things you need, but you have too much content," which she thought I was gonna

Kristin:

be crushed, but I was like, "I don't care.

Kristin:

I'll put it in a book," right?

Kristin:

Because I can write a book really fast.

Kristin:

And that's what I'm doing right now, actually, is I'm

Kristin:

putting it all into a book.

Kirsten:

Excellent

Kristin:

But she, like, boiled it down to the one thing, and that's, when

Kristin:

you want to have ongoing mastery, it is impossible to do it on your own.

Kirsten:

Yes

Kristin:

Like, that's what I'll say.

Kristin:

You need people around you, because if you're in a bubble, you

Kristin:

won't get the feedback you need.

Kristin:

You won't get the new ideas you need, and you won't know when something that you've

Kristin:

learned has been debunked, for example.

Kirsten:

Yeah.

Kirsten:

We have, on our team, Dani is from the K to 12 world, and when I hired her as an

Kirsten:

instructional designer in my last job, the conversation of learning styles came up

Kirsten:

and she went, "Oh, it drives me insane."

Kirsten:

And I'm like, "I love you."

Kristin:

Kirsten:

It was just perfect.

Kirsten:

It was like right out of the gate.

Kirsten:

She's like, "Yeah, we're supposed to use it.

Kirsten:

But I do explain it's a preference," and I'm like, "Yes.

Kirsten:

Thank you.

Kirsten:

That's my girl."

Kristin:

Yeah, kindred spirits.

Kirsten:

Kindred spirits.

Kirsten:

Well, we're all of a personality type, which I, I notice like

Kirsten:

you, Kellie, Cait, so Caitlin Donovan, who we also interviewed.

Kristin:

Yeah

Kirsten:

We all kind of have an approach to learning, which

Kirsten:

is basically like, "Feed me.

Kirsten:

Give me more.

Kirsten:

Just keep giving me the information."

Kristin:

Right

Kirsten:

"And I will keep digesting it."

Kirsten:

And I recognize that's not necessarily how everybody is.

Kristin:

True

Kirsten:

But I think the power of knowing people like you, and like Cait, who can

Kirsten:

take that power and kind of use it for good, because you could use it for evil.

Kirsten:

There is a world

Kristin:

That's true

Kirsten:

In which you are a super villain, I'm sure of it.

Kirsten:

Same glasses, though.

Kristin:

The metaverse

Kirsten:

I'm not sure why, but your evil self is wearing the same glasses.

Kristin:

Because they're the best.

Kristin:

These are my personal favorites, so I'm sure my evil self also likes them.

Kirsten:

Yes, I, I'm just gonna have to go into Photoshop and

Kirsten:

make an evil version of you.

Kirsten:

I'm just gonna have to.

Kristin:

Kirsten:

But I think what you're saying about pulling in

Kirsten:

other people's thoughts, yes.

Kristin:

Yeah

Kirsten:

So what is the big challenge for you in asking people

Kirsten:

and getting people to see things?

Kirsten:

Because when we were working together, you had to work pretty

Kirsten:

hard to get me outta my own way.

Kristin:

I did, yeah.

Kristin:

That's, that's what I do.

Kristin:

Well, because let's, let's just be clear, right?

Kristin:

I have a coach.

Kristin:

I'm not my own coach.

Kristin:

You have a coach.

Kristin:

You're not your own coach.

Kristin:

You need the help of someone else to subvert the self doubt that happens when

Kristin:

you're thinking about your own story.

Kristin:

Something as simple as your own story, which you should be able

Kristin:

to tell, that self doubt comes in and it kind of, like, blinds you.

Kristin:

It's like a fog, right?

Kristin:

And you can't find your way down that path that's been in your brain for years.

Kristin:

And so I come and I'm like, huh.

Kristin:

And I like push the fog out of the way, for the listeners, I'm gesturing

Kristin:

wildly here, and I make sure that you can see yourself clearly.

Kristin:

And a lot of people will tell me, and I've been accused of this so often,

Kristin:

I constantly am arguing back, but they're like, "You're just so positive.

Kristin:

You're only seeing the good things."

Kirsten:

Kristin:

And I'm like, "No, I'm very realistic."

Kristin:

Like, if I see, I have meetings, I have discovery calls with people who just

Kristin:

wanna get to know me, and I'll be like, "You don't have a business at all."

Kristin:

And then they just look at me.

Kristin:

I will tell you exactly how it is.

Kristin:

Because if you're selling one thing and you're not profitable and you don't have

Kristin:

the foundation, you don't have a business.

Kristin:

You're selling one thing, right?

Kristin:

You could be selling a pencil sharpener, or you could be selling a call.

Kristin:

Either way, you're not a business, and so I'm not going to kiss your ass.

Kristin:

That's

Kirsten:

Yeah

Kristin:

Not my job.

Kristin:

My job is to dig for the truth nuggets, which sounds really funny after I

Kristin:

just said, "kiss your ass," by the way, and go through and learn about

Kristin:

you, so that I can tell the story that you can't tell yourself, even

Kristin:

though it's about you and your life.

Kirsten:

That's it, right there, that's it.

Kirsten:

Because I remember the thing I balked on was the, I'm a strong

Kirsten:

cup of coffee, like, I'm a lot.

Kirsten:

And I remember going, but "I don't wanna offend people."

Kirsten:

And you're like, " Kirsten," and the fact is, is that I, I am, I am.

Kristin:

Yeah

Kirsten:

I mean, that's what I'm constantly fighting is, is a

Kirsten:

little part of me is like, "Should I be apologizing for breathing?"

Kristin:

"And the answer's no.

Kristin:

You shouldn't be.

Kirsten:

The answer is no.

Kirsten:

Yes, yes.

Kirsten:

And, for listeners, I, when Kristen and I had a conversation, I think it was our

Kirsten:

first get to know you chat, because we met

Kristin:

Yeah

Kirsten:

In a speaker group.

Kirsten:

And then I got on a call with you, and I had just done a webinar in which

Kirsten:

29 people, no, 28 people loved it.

Kirsten:

And one person hated me and said that I was the worst person ever.

Kirsten:

And I was obsessing about it.

Kirsten:

And I'd just met you, and you were like, "Oh please.

Kirsten:

Oh, please.

Kirsten:

Just drop it."

Kirsten:

And I'm like, "It's one of my people.

Kirsten:

It's one of my tribe.

Kirsten:

Yay."

Kristin:

Because I, well, and I didn't just do that, right?

Kristin:

I took you through.

Kristin:

I'm like, "Why did you do?"

Kristin:

They were annoyed at your sense of humor,

Kirsten:

Yeah

Kristin:

Which is so annoying to me.

Kristin:

I'm like, "No, you're annoying me right now, on Kirsten's behalf.

Kristin:

But, they were upset with your trying to bring humor into the lesson, and I asked

Kristin:

her, I was like, "But why do you do that?"

Kristin:

Because I know, because I'm a storyteller.

Kristin:

And you're like, "Because of information retention."

Kristin:

I'm like, "Exactly."

Kristin:

Because you're trying to help them, not because you're trying to annoy them,

Kristin:

because humor will help them remember the lesson that they need from you, right?

Kristin:

That's why they hired

Kirsten:

Yep

Kristin:

You.

Kristin:

And you just kind of looked at me and you were like, "How dare

Kristin:

you make sense when I'm upset."

Kirsten:

Yeah, pretty much exactly that.

Kirsten:

And, yeah, it's, I, I was a tech trainer for 22 years, and one of the things was,

Kirsten:

I always brought humor into it because tech training traditionally is boring.

Kristin:

Mm-mmm

Kirsten:

And I'm like, "No, no.

Kirsten:

That means it's done wrong."

Kirsten:

If tech training is boring, then you're not, you're not reaching,

Kirsten:

you're not reaching your audience.

Kirsten:

And it doesn't mean you have to be goofy.

Kirsten:

You don't have to do what I did, which is I taught a room full of

Kirsten:

people how to curse in Old Norse

Kristin:

That's hilarious

Kirsten:

At the software because, I'm sorry, but Adobe Captivate needs

Kirsten:

you to curse in multiple languages.

Kirsten:

It's, just, it does.

Kirsten:

It's built into the software.

Kirsten:

So, more about you.

Kirsten:

This is a good conversation, but it's focusing way too much on me.

Kristin:

Kirsten:

So, in your world, what is your next ongoing mastery that you're doing?

Kirsten:

What are you, I mean, I assume there's a lot.

Kristin:

The, it's a big one.

Kristin:

I mean, right now, I'm deep into the world of offers and Alex

Kristin:

Hormozi is my number one teacher.

Kristin:

But because I work with people to help them tell their stories, right?

Kristin:

And, they have amazing stories, and I teach them how to use it to get money.

Kristin:

But, then they might turn around and use it, their story to

Kristin:

get, let's say, $1,500 offers.

Kristin:

That's okay, right?

Kristin:

$1,500 is a respectable amount of money.

Kristin:

I will give you that.

Kristin:

But, the amount of hours they have to put in to get that money is not okay.

Kristin:

Like, they're, you know, they end up getting paid like $30 an

Kristin:

hour, or something like that.

Kristin:

And if you make $30 an hour, that's respectable.

Kristin:

I did it for a lot of years.

Kristin:

I don't wanna do it any more, because I can make $300 to a thousand

Kristin:

dollars per hour with my specialties.

Kristin:

So, I come in, and I look at my client's offers.

Kristin:

And I tear them apart.

Kristin:

I build them back.

Kristin:

I teach them how to, you know, use an offer stack, for a lack of a better term,

Kristin:

so that they can make the money they deserve, and also so they can pay me.

Kristin:

Because a lot of times people can't afford my prices and instead of saying,

Kristin:

"Oh, well too bad," I'll either refer them to one of my colleagues who doesn't

Kristin:

have as much experience, or, I'll teach them how to get the money to pay me

Kristin:

because it benefits both of us, for free.

Kirsten:

I love it.

Kirsten:

I love it.

Kirsten:

And so when people wanna find you, we're not done, but I just wanna make

Kirsten:

sure I get this in there, when people wanna find you, how do they find you?

Kristin:

So, if you go to literarysymmetry.com, you can book a call

Kristin:

with me directly, and you can also get my free masterclass, which teaches you

Kristin:

basically the same process that I took Kirsten through, but in a quicker level,

Kristin:

not as deep, so that you can create your one big sentence to explain to people

Kristin:

what you do with confidence, quickly.

Kirsten:

Fantastic.

Kirsten:

So, if you could give any advice to people who kind of, storytelling is, is finally

Kirsten:

being recognized as a powerful tool

Kristin:

Right

Kirsten:

For business, for education.

Kirsten:

It's becoming less of a, "Oh, storytelling," and more of

Kirsten:

a, "Oh, we really need it."

Kristin:

Yeah

Kirsten:

How do people who wanna incorporate it, but don't know how to

Kirsten:

begin, where would you guide them to?

Kristin:

So, a lot of people think that if you're going to tell a story, it

Kristin:

has to match the exact experience of the person who you're telling it to.

Kristin:

But that is not accurate.

Kristin:

And also that's a pretty impossible thing.

Kristin:

Especially, let's say you're speaking to a room of 200 people, there's no

Kristin:

way your experience is going to be the same as all 200 people in that room.

Kristin:

It's just not gonna happen.

Kristin:

So what I recommend instead is, I'm gonna geek out a little bit, because I

Kristin:

can, and I know you'll appreciate it.

Kirsten:

Yes

Kristin:

So, I like to use speaker listener neural coupling, which is when

Kristin:

I tell you a personal story, not just any story, it needs to be a personal

Kristin:

story from my life, the patterns that light up in my brain, light up in

Kristin:

your brain on a delay, because you're processing the information, right?

Kristin:

So, what I tell people to do is mirror the emotional experience that your audience

Kristin:

is having from a story in your life.

Kristin:

And they're not gonna come away and say, "Oh, that's nothing like my story."

Kristin:

They recognize the feelings in themselves.

Kristin:

You're building know, like, and trust from a sales and marketing perspective,

Kristin:

but you're also connecting with them on a deep emotional level, so

Kristin:

that they're going to remember not only what you said, but who you are.

Kristin:

And people are going to then associate you with that story.

Kristin:

Like, for me, I'm the glasses lady.

Kristin:

I tell the story about how, when I first started my business, to gamify my own

Kristin:

experience, I bought a new pair of glasses for every $5,000 someone spent with me.

Kristin:

So, now people call me the glasses lady.

Kristin:

I don't buy more glasses anymore, because I haven't found any I like recently,

Kristin:

but, so if you're trying to keep track of my income, good luck .

Kirsten:

Kristin:

But that's one of the things, like, I was struggling.

Kristin:

I needed something to keep motivating me, and I was feeling overwhelmed.

Kristin:

I had never made that much money, that fast.

Kristin:

I needed some kind of anchor for myself, and my husband suggested it.

Kristin:

He's like, "You've been wanting to branch out in your glasses for years,"

Kristin:

because I really like Carla from the Food Network, and she has, like, 20 pairs, and

Kristin:

she always looks fabulous and amazing.

Kristin:

So, that's how I was able to get through that extreme transition into unprecedented

Kristin:

growth for my business without losing it, is an eloquent way of saying it, I guess.

Kirsten:

Fantastic.

Kirsten:

I love that.

Kirsten:

I love that.

Kirsten:

I'm now thinking, "Oh, how am I gonna tie that into my life?"

Kristin:

What can you gamify?

Kristin:

Yeah.

Kristin:

As you're entering that, because it's uncomfortable when you grow.

Kristin:

Just like if you're doing ongoing mastery, you're going to feel uncomfortable a lot

Kristin:

of the time, because you're constantly pushing yourself and learning new things.

Kristin:

And you have to figure out a way to make your brain switch that nervous,

Kristin:

negative anxiety into excitement.

Kristin:

And you can do that by doing silly things like saying, "Oh, I have

Kristin:

this new pair of glasses picked out.

Kristin:

When I get this next client, I'm gonna buy them."

Kirsten:

Fantastic.

Kirsten:

One final question.

Kirsten:

I keep wanting to talk to you, but I know we're not doing like

Kirsten:

an hour we're doing a little bit.

Kristin:

Kirsten:

So, failure, the power of failure.

Kristin:

Mm-mmm

Kirsten:

I believe one of the things you asked me was, one of the stories

Kirsten:

was, how I, you know, how I epically messed up, and I remember that threw me,

Kristin:

Right

Kirsten:

Because I was having trouble finding something in which it wasn't a

Kirsten:

deep personal moral failure in my head.

Kristin:

Yeah, and I think that is the question people get most mad at me for.

Kirsten:

I wasn't mad, I wasn't mad, I was just talking about

Kristin:

Mad, or thrown off, whatever you wanna say, it, it creates some

Kristin:

kind of emotional response, right?

Kristin:

Let's say that, and the reason I ask it is because, whatever you're

Kristin:

doing, whether you're a teacher or a business owner, the people that you're

Kristin:

working with will not trust you if you tried to make them think that you're

Kristin:

perfect, because no one is perfect.

Kristin:

So, the best way and the quickest way for you to build know, like,

Kristin:

and trust, which isn't just a sales thing, it's a relationship thing.

Kristin:

So, the fastest way for you to do that is to admit a time when you failed and

Kristin:

then explain how you got out of that failure, because that's resilience and

Kristin:

people respect and admire resilience.

Kristin:

So, that's why I ask people to tell me that story.

Kristin:

I'm not setting them up to look like a failure.

Kristin:

I'm setting them up to be relatable and to show that when they fail, because

Kristin:

we all do, they will keep going.

Kirsten:

And that is pretty much how ongoing mastery works, which I'm

Kirsten:

fine with it being anybody but me.

Kirsten:

Ongoing mastery is you fail and then you keep going, of course, and I coach that.

Kristin:

Right

Kirsten:

And then as soon as you asked me, I went, "Ahhhh" and I froze.

Kristin:

Kirsten:

And it's interesting, because I'm like, "No."

Kirsten:

I can pull it out of other people, but as soon as I went to do it

Kirsten:

myself, I'm like, "But no, I can't."

Kirsten:

So, that was really annoying.

Kristin:

Yeah, you have to practice.

Kristin:

You have to practice talking about your own failure.

Kristin:

It's a lot easier to point to someone else and be like, "Oh,

Kristin:

they, they messed up," right?

Kristin:

And also, it's easier to give other people grace and mercy for those

Kristin:

mistakes than it is for yourself.

Kristin:

So, it just takes practice, and that's what I'm practicing every day .

Kirsten:

So, I think that will be the homework for everybody

Kirsten:

that is watching and listening.

Kirsten:

So, embrace one of your epic screw ups.

Kirsten:

And, if you can, go to the LinkedIn Ongoing Mastery: Presenting & Speaking

Kirsten:

group, join us, and throw it into the conversation and say,

Kirsten:

"Hey, here is a time in which I completely and utterly tanked it."

Kirsten:

And

Kristin:

That's right

Kirsten:

I will happily share you one of my stories and we can go from there.

Kirsten:

Thank you so much for coming on.

Kirsten:

This was fun.

Kirsten:

I wish, I kind of wanna do this forever, but I know we need to

Kirsten:

stop, so thank you for coming.

Kristin:

Well, thank you for having me.

Kristin:

It was blast.

Kirsten:

I will see you in the, the speaker group coming

Kirsten:

up and obviously other things.

Kirsten:

You, do you have any events coming up that people know about, need to know about or

Kirsten:

any, any sales or anything like that?

Kristin:

I, so I'm thinking about doing five spots for offer audit.

Kristin:

I'm only gonna offer five.

Kristin:

It's a thousand dollars, and I will work with you for 90 minutes

Kristin:

and build, rebuild, tear part your offer stack and rebuild that.

Kristin:

So yeah, if you just wanna go to literarysymmetry.com,

Kristin:

hop on a call with me.

Kristin:

When five people have signed up, that's it for the year.

Kirsten:

All right.

Kirsten:

Fantastic.

Kirsten:

Thank you so much, and everybody, we will see you next time.

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