What if writing the story you’re afraid to tell is the exactly what your readers have been waiting for?

Leigh Carron, author of Fat Girl and other body positive romance novels, didn’t set out to follow trends, chase algorithms, or fit neatly into what the publishing world expects. She set out to tell her truth. And in doing so, she’s built stories centered on body diversity, biracial identity, desire, and authenticity, even when it felt risky or uncomfortable.

In this conversation, Leigh opens up about choosing self-publishing, navigating imposter syndrome, writing spicy romance that centers fat and marginalized bodies, and learning how to market without losing herself in the process.

Highlights

Diversity in writing as lived experience

For Leigh, diversity is personal. Her stories are shaped by who she is and who her readers are, and she writes with the intention of reflecting real bodies and real identities on the page.

“I write spicy, diverse, body positive romance. That’s sort of my niche, my brand, and I love doing that, bringing body diversity and racial diversity to my stories. I want them to reflect me and the people that read my books.”

Empowerment through characters who take up space

Leigh is intentional about who gets centered in her stories. Her characters aren’t there to support someone else’s arc. They get to be seen, desired, and fully human.

“I want to show fat characters being loved on, being desired, feeling good about themselves, not being the side characters in stories, but being their own leads.”

Choosing the indie path without a roadmap

Traditional publishing wasn’t the only option, and Leigh chose to take the leap without having everything figured out. What mattered more was resonance and momentum.

“I decided I’ll just venture out into this wild world of indie publishing. And I didn’t have a clue what I was doing, but… it sort of resonated.”

Marketing as an ongoing experiment

Marketing isn’t something you master once and move on from. Leigh talks honestly about the trial-and-error nature of showing up, learning, and staying curious without burning out.

“You have to be your own marketer and you have to figure that out... I’m still learning those things. Why do some posts hit? Why do some books resonate and others don’t?”

Writing authentically even when it feels risky

Chasing trends might feel safer, but Leigh chose alignment instead. That decision comes with risk, but it also comes with clarity.

“I have stayed true to what I want to tell and haven’t followed what’s popular in tropes, and I know that can also be a risk.”

Writing through cultural and racial identity

Leigh shares how early experiences shaped her understanding of identity and belonging, and how those experiences continue to influence her storytelling today.

“I learned very quickly that being biracial was not a good thing then. Like that was not something to be proud of. That was something to be worried about and to fear what people would think.”

Balancing creativity with real life

Writing doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Leigh balances her creative work with a demanding professional career, and some days are harder than others.

“It’s a challenge some days, especially because I’m a change management consultant. So I work with companies in helping them kind of reframe their culture.”

Reader connection over perfection

Not every conversation has to end in agreement. For Leigh, the value comes from connection, curiosity, and dialogue.

“I love the reader interaction, even if we’re not on the same page with things, just learning and having that conversation, I think, is great.”

Advice that leaves room for both art and strategy

Leigh encourages writers to stay grounded in their creative vision while still acknowledging the realities of publishing and marketing.

“Write the story that you want to tell and make that your focus. That’s not to say you shouldn’t be mindful of the marketing and all of those pieces.”

Authenticity is what lasts

At the core of everything, Leigh believes readers respond to honesty more than polish.

“It comes down to authenticity, of being true to yourself. I think that’s what people will see. That’s what will resonate, that authenticity that people can relate to.”

Closing reflection

Leigh’s story shows us that our most resonate work comes from honesty. We just need to trust our voice and keep writing, even when it feels vulnerable.

If you’re an author navigating visibility, representation, or the pressure to do things the “right” way, this conversation is for you.

You might be sitting on a story that the world has been waiting to hear, so let’s share it.

If that sounds like you, leave a comment about your journey in the comments.

The first thing I would say is write, because I think that people get.

You think I have to write for it to go somewhere?

No, you, you don't like, just write because you can figure that out, you know, at the end of it.

But if you don't write, then there's nothing to.

To do with it.

And I think people can get blocked by the whole, oh my gosh, and then I have to publish and then I have to do this and I have to do that.

Forget all that initially and, and just write the story that you want to.

To tell and make that your focus.

That's not to say you shouldn't be mindful of the marketing and all of those pieces.

I think that's really important.

But none of that matters without, without a book to write.

And I know so many people who have partial things done all over the place and not bringing any one thing to completion.

So I would just say finish your book.

Welcome to Standout Authors Unbound, a space for writers who refuse to disappear.

This is where you can share your work without shrin.

Softening or polishing yourself into something safer.

I'm your host Kevin Chung, and I created this series for authors writing from lived experience from the margins and replaces the system often overlooks.

We'll talk about voice, visibility and building a writing life that honors who you are, not just what sells.

Let's get into it.

Hi and welcome to another episode of Standout Authors Unbound.

And today I'm on Lee Caron.

I. Lee, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your writing journey and how you got into writing?

Yes.

Thanks for having me, Kevin.

I really appreciate it.

I'm excited to be here and talk with you today.

I write spicy diverse body positive romance.

That's sort of my niche, my brand, and I love doing that.

Bringing body diversity and racial diversity to.

To my stories.

I want them to reflect me and the people that read my.

My books.

And so that was really important to me to bring those stories and spicy because it's fun.

And when I'm.

When I'm writing body positive, in particular fat characters.

And we can talk about that word in a moment because that's really important to me as well.

Sort of the.

Sort of taking the power back of that, of that word fat.

But I want to show fat characters being loved on, being desired, feeling good about them, you know, not being the side characters and stories, but being their own leads.

And so that's really what started my, my journey because I saw a lack of that in the marketplace and I Wanted to, to, to write about stories that I wanted to, to read.

And so my first book was Fat Girl and I wanted to kind of just put it right out there that that's kind of how she was identifying and at first her journey is seeing it from not a positive standpoint.

She had, you know, self esteem and confidence issues, but it was sort of her growth through that to kind of take back the power of the word fat and to.

It's just a description.

It doesn't have to mean anything unless you sort of attach meaning to it.

And so putting this, you know, this, this black fat woman out there as, as the lead felt really empowering for me.

And readers responded very, very well to it and ended up doing a sequel to it and kind of, that kicked off a series for me, my first series.

So.

That's amazing.

That's.

Yeah, that's been that.

It's been a fun journey for sure.

Hard, but fun.

Oh yeah.

I'm sure every author's journey, as far as I know, has been difficult.

Not necessarily the level of difficulty is across the board.

Obviously.

Some people obviously have more challenges than others, but.

Yeah.

Can you talk about like some of the more difficult or challenging things that you found?

Well, you know, I had when I first started and, you know, I, I wasn't sure that I was really going to be an author.

I wrote this book and I had people say to me, oh, this is really good, you should do something with it.

And I felt, you know, semi confident.

But, you know, I think like most dumb authors, we go through that sort of imposter syndrome.

Is this real?

Should I even be doing this?

Is anyone going to care about what I put out there?

So I, I thought about that and how I wanted to put myself out there.

I had spoken with a traditional publisher and I knew that wasn't going to be for me, sort of the pressure of timelines to conform to a certain, you know, prescription of, of how the story would unfold.

There was just a lot of things that I knew I would never be able to, to deal with, just wouldn't match my personality.

So that meant leaving it where it was, you know, on my desktop or self publishing.

And so I decided I'll just venture out into this, this the wild world of indie publishing.

And I didn't have a clue what I was doing and, but people, you know, it sort of resonated.

I think that the title in particular grabbed attention and that was, that was good.

And then I kind of had a feeling I wasn't.

I'm not really an author.

Okay, so people liked it and whatever, but I had a job and I just went kind of went back to my job and it was years before I wrote again.

And then when I came back onto the scene with the conclusion to Fat Girl and Naked Beauty, the world of publishing had really changed.

And you know, there was so much to be done on social media.

You had to really work a lot at marketing your, yourself and you know, for, I think a lot of us, for authors, we just want to write but, but you don't get the luxury of that.

You have to be your marketer and you have to figure that out.

And then there's of course all the Amazon algorithms and there's this and there's that and it' you know, so I, I, I sort of tapped into some support to figure these things out that I knew I was never going to, to master.

And honestly, I'm still learning those, those things.

Why do some posts hit?

Why do some books resonate and others don't?

You know, I'm still, I'm still figuring it.

You know, I'm six books later and I, and I, and I couldn't tell you what the magic formula is.

And some days that's really frustrating because I don't know why some people will just love something and then not another.

And is it something I could be doing differently?

You know, but again, I want to write for me.

So that's, so that's always sort of the, the dilemma, the balance.

Right.

Yeah, I think it's, it's so interesting because you can write stuff for other people, but I think that's oftentimes when stuff gets muddied and it's not as good because you're just trying to work for a formula.

And yeah, I think a lot of people can tell even if they're, you're not attuned to like literature or writing or any of that stuff.

They can just tell.

Right.

Very formulaic or whatever.

So there's, there's two ways to go about it.

You can either lean into that and continue to do that because it's so popular, that is a way to, to be like an author, or you lean into the idea of this is the way I want it to be done and therefore that's the way I'm going to do it.

So or you can balance the two, obviously.

But I think it's important to know what your options are before deciding whether or not you want to go a certain path.

Yeah, I think that's true.

And also I don't know if you're familiar with sort of all of the tropes that, especially around romance, writing tropes is a very big focus.

And so, you know, there are tropes that are obviously more popular than others.

So do you lean into that because it's popular and trending, or do you write what's true to you and the stories that you want to tell?

So I have stayed true to what I want to tell and haven't followed what's popular in tropes.

And I know that can also be a risk.

And, you know, I've just chosen to take that.

Yeah.

I think if you find the people who like the way that you write and the way that you tell stories and the way that you present things, they're going to continue to like you.

The harder part is really finding an audience beyond you're current.

Right.

So you need to either introduce them somewhere earlier or make your next book the biggest push.

So you have to figure out if people aren't buying you because you did this formulaic thing, what is it about your book that stands out?

Yeah.

And this time I wrote a black romance.

Previously, I've written interracial romances with the exclusion, exception of my first of my debut, so.

But I came back to black romance where both characters are.

Are black.

And the love that I was shown actually from the.

From the black read, you know, reading community was humongous.

Like, they just took to this book and it's just like the success of this book is not something that I have seen in my other books.

So the, you know, black readers really showed up for, for me and kind of made this book a big thing.

And then, so, you know, and I've continued kind of the, the momentum with that level of.

Of support.

But this by far second to my debut has been, you know, my most successful.

So not again, not sure why specifically, what's different?

Um, not maybe not that it's black romance only, but certainly black readers who want to support black authors and who want to support black romance really did show up.

Yeah.

And now the question is whether or not you continue to follow that because it was popular or do you go back and figure out the story and don't worry about whether or not it's a black romance or you're a mixed romance or what have you.

It's.

Well, this series is a black romance, so the other two books, because I've already introduced the characters, it is, you know, it is a black romance series.

That said, that does not mean that after this series is complete.

I would not go back to interracial.

You know, that's my background.

I'm of that mixed background.

It's what I know, it's kind of what I live.

But I do identify probably more as, as, as black than I do biracial, but still.

So, you know, both feel like, comfortable to me.

Yeah.

Can you talk about that experience writing as a biracial person?

Yeah, I mean, I can talk about it from the fact of living as a biracial person.

Right.

I have.

Even though I'm in Canada now.

I was born in the US and was raised in the US up until the age of eight, and I've been in Canada since.

But the, you know, back when, when I was a kid living in, in the US My father's from, from Mississippi.

He married this white woman.

And so I learned very quickly that being biracial was not a good thing then.

Like, that was not something to be proud of.

That was something to be worried about and to fear what people would think.

And I remember my grandmother, who, on my, my father's side, my black grandmother, had said to me, um, and I was only five at the time, she said, you know, try not to be too white, try not to be too black.

Just try and find like, lay low sort of thing.

And at 5, I had no idea what that meant, but sort of, I can understand now the context as a, you know, as a grown up that she was trying to protect me from, you know, that you're not going to be accepted on either side, so just somehow figure out a way to blend in.

And so I, so I.

It's very different for biracial kids now, but then that was a real issue.

And I think it did sort of frame the way that I wanted to write and tell stories.

Not that they always have to be about the racial experience that people have.

But, you know, that is, that is a part of it.

That is that, you know, part of how.

How people, you know, experience life.

Unfortunately, we are judged by the color of our, of our skin, and you can't.

And, and I don't want to pretend that doesn't exist in, in romance, even though it's, you know, there's a fantasy element and, you know, you're trying to escape.

So I don't make it hard and, and deep, but I want it to be recognized that, hey, this is a biracial romance and these people are from different cultures potentially and have different experiences in life.

And so that I write from that, from that place.

I've heard other Authors talk about the challenge of writing about race.

So how do you make it so that it's not about race, but it's clear that your character is either black or white or what have you in your stories without, like, okay, this is like a sign.

This is person is whatever.

Yeah.

I think I approach it the same way that I approach my.

My fat characters that I don't want this to be about.

Yeah.

Everything is about their weight, their.

The way they look, you know, that it's.

It's just one part of their life, one part of their experience.

And so I try and make it authentic and as a natural part of the.

Of the.

Of the story, you know, how I would.

How I live my life as well.

I'm not every day thinking about my race.

I'm not every day thinking about, you know, my shape and size.

Like, those are the things that stand out to me.

I'm.

I'm much more than that, and so are my characters.

But they.

But they influence the way we think and the experiences that we have.

And so I just try and have a natural integration into that.

It's easier when you're writing, for example, black romance, where both characters kind of have that commonality already.

So, you know, they just sort of get it.

You know, they don't have to make it into a big thing.

You know, my last character, lot, she wears her silk bonnet.

He's not gonna go, what.

What is this that you're wearing at.

At night?

He already knows that black hair gets protected by.

By satin.

Right.

He gets that.

But if you're with.

In an interracial, he, you know, the.

The.

The white character in the story might not be familiar with that, might have a question about that.

And I think that's sort of an authentic way of.

Of talking about it, as opposed to, I'm black and you know, or I'm white, you know, that.

That sort of thing.

It's just having those.

Those.

Those natural pieces incorporated.

Yeah.

I think it's interesting because the way that the industry is set up, the natural conclusion is, by default, characters are going to be white in stories, at least North American stories, Canada and the US Versus other places.

Asia, obviously has characters based in, like, Asian background.

But I think it's difficult to.

To not state certain things as you're writing, because if you don't want people to think this person is white, you have to explain their situation and who they are versus just letting them be a person.

Yeah, as a default.

Exactly.

But I also think that white authors and.

And any author who's writing white characters should be describing those characters.

Right.

That.

I don't think that it's only non white characters who should get the description because that feels imbalanced to me.

Right.

You're white.

So describe the white skin as you would, you know, black skin or, you know, or, or whatever, or whatever race you're writing about.

So I think you're right, because the ex.

The assumption is that they're white, but it should be described.

Yeah.

If you want the person to know that this is a specific character with this specific background and experience that I think helps to enrich the story because then you have a whole different context on who this person is because the experiences of different communities are completely different.

And obviously you can introduce those in different ways.

You don't have to say this person is white.

You can say this person went to temple or whatever they went to, they prayed to whatever Mecca or whatever it may be.

Just to say this person is not necessarily a white person.

It's a diverse character.

Exactly.

Can you talk a little bit about your experience becoming a writer?

Did you know immediately from the start, when you're a child that you wanted to write, or is this something developed later in life?

Yes and no.

I mean, I always loved writing as a kid.

I, I wrote.

I remember writing little, you know, stories, you know, as Young as probably 8 years old, where, you know, in my little notebook.

And then through high school, you know, I was always writing stories and I got a lot of support.

You know, I have one, one English teacher, shout out Mrs. Aqua Harrison.

She was amazing, who really supported my, my, my writing.

But I didn't see writing as a career per se.

And back then also, I think that if you were sort of this outgoing person that you would be, you know, guidance counselors can say, oh, well, you know, you should go into social work.

You should go into, you know, these sort of people related fields.

And so that's what I ended up doing actually, and ended up going through social work and then into human resources and all kinds of things.

And honestly, I hated every minute of.

Wasn't.

It wasn't me.

And so.

But I loved writing as a hobby.

And then it was my husband who one day was saying to me like years later, how come you're not like writing as much anymore?

And that kind of would, yeah, I haven't written.

You know, you get busy with your career and life and all of that.

And so that's when I sat down and, and the story fat girl just came to me and I thought, okay, Maybe, you know, and.

And.

And then that's how my journey began.

Began sort of, you know, in the sporadic way of, you know, out there, go silent.

Then I come back a few years later with book two, and then I think, okay, I'm gonna get serious.

And then, you know, book three, four, five, and.

And now six.

So that's been, you know, that's kind of how that evolved.

Amazing.

I always love to hear how people stumble onto certain careers.

No matter whether what you're doing as a creative person, you don't always pick the straightest path.

No.

To what we want to do.

We.

We find we meander our way into things and end up at a certain point saying, okay, this is enough.

I need to be doing something that fulfills me versus, you know, just the capitalistic system that we all need to live in at this point.

So.

So I think it's important to.

Even if you're not doing it as a career, you need to figure out how it is that you can keep continually creating to fulfill that certain need.

Because I think it makes us all happier if we're creative people.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think so.

Though I have to say now, with all the AI stuff, it's making, you know, life as.

As a.

As an author, as a theater in general, I think it's.

It.

It's quite.

There's quite a threat to that moving forward.

Yeah.

The thing is, right now we're at a point where AI is pretty easy to spot in a lot of cases.

As far as, like, writing goes and creating believable human people.

Yes.

There are some cows for sure.

Yeah.

But who's to say in the future it doesn't improve, especially if it goes unchecked, where people's work, who's being used to train these models doesn't get better and they continue to just take people's work.

So it's like, how can we, as creative people go beyond what it is that a computer can write?

Because obviously there's something human about creation and being creative versus saying this is what I want this book to be, and just give.

Letting the AI go at it.

Right.

Yeah.

No, it's true.

I was just reading that Harlequin.

I think it was their.

Their French office that they let go of all of their translators because they're going to use AI Generated translation.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's not just the writers.

It's, you know, sort of the whole publishing aspect of it and kind of, how do writers learn to kind of protect their work going forward?

You know, these things that you have to.

To think about that are beyond just the, you know, the writer, you know, the marketing piece that we talked about before.

But now there is also this part of how you protect yourself in contracts and, and in what you, you know, kind of put out there that you very intentional about.

I don't want my work being trained.

Doesn't mean that it won't happen, but that you need to, you know, protect yourself with those kinds of clauses and in contracts and, you know, even in your book where, you know, the publishing page, you know, putting those kinds of things on the copyright.

Yeah, that's why I think it's important to, if you're going to do traditionally published books, to know exactly what you're getting into.

Because if you sign off all your rights and characters and all this stuff as intellectual property, they can essentially do whatever they want with it.

Well, exactly right.

Which is, I'm sure, exactly what they're doing right now.

Yes.

So, yeah.

There is one thing that is interesting.

I think it was Ireland.

They started a program to.

To pay authors, artists a monthly stipend, kind of like a basic universal income kind of deal.

And they found that that has actually helped those creators become sustainable.

Right.

So what is it as we society, if we're going to lean into this thing called AI, to, you know, it can obviously have benefits to the world, there are many things that it can help society at large with.

What is it that we should be doing together?

Directing as a whole what society should be doing instead of letting like five billionaires decide.

Right, exactly.

What's happening with everybody's information.

Yes, no, that's exactly right.

And also, I mean, just think about the volume, like, putting the quality aside, the volume at which an AI can produce a book.

I'm a slow writer.

I will produce sort of two books a year, and I'm okay with that.

I know a lot of people are putting out sort of four, and that's, I think, kind of the ideal is to have four, because, you know, then you kind of keep the momentum from book to book.

And mine's very slow because I only put up two.

But, you know, with AI, of course, they can generate, generate, generate.

And that's what, you know, then you start to compete against.

Against that as it gets as.

As the technology gets better and harder to detect when something might not have that human factor.

If, if we come to that.

Yeah.

I think that's one of the important things about being an author is to build relationships with people.

So if you have an AI author, they can Obviously pretend that they're writing all of the content of the book, but if you're actually writing it and you know your characters inside out, all this stuff, what is it that you bring as a human being, as a storyteller, as this person who birthed this thing into the world to relate to people that, you know, an AI cannot do, or a person using AI cannot do.

Right.

Yeah, I think you're right about the relationships.

That's my favorite part about this, other than the writing of the story, is the connecting with readers.

And I'll invite readers, you know, pop into my DM while you're, while you're reading it.

And I love to get, you know, sort of the feedback real time.

You did what your character did what.

You know, that, that, to me, making it sort of that interactive process.

I just, I love that part about being an author.

Yeah.

Can you talk a little bit about, since we just mentioned it, how you go about doing marketing?

Because a lot of creative people push back against it because they think of this process as like just being a salesman, essentially.

And I mean, you in some sense are.

But I think beyond that, it needs to be about the connection and the story and the messaging and all this stuff.

Yeah, I'm really not good at the, at traditional marketing, like thinking about, you know, where, where should I be promoting myself?

I don't do a lot of events.

I'm sort of very low key and, and I'm not into to a lot of, of that.

So I have to be more intentional and more thoughtful about what I'm going to, to do what's been easiest for me.

And so that's probably why I gravitate towards.

It has been on Instagram because there is, you know, sort of this existing book community that you can tap into.

And when you tap into it and you make those connections, those connections tend to be quite tight.

And then when people love you, they will promote you without you having to do it, which I also, I always think that's the best way.

Right.

The word of mouth where somebody's going to talk up my book on their social media platform, they're going to tell their friends, they're going to tell their book club.

So I've been nurturing those relationships because I really value them and I like them and those people have, you know, sort of returned that love by, by sharing.

And that's, you know, for my, my, my latest book, Take a Shot on Me.

That's really, I mean, that was the extent of the, the marketing and so.

But that works But I'm sure there is more to be done.

I'm just not, I'm just not doing it.

And I see, you know, a lot of my peers posting daily, sometimes twice a day.

I'm not going to do that and maybe there's a cost to, to do that, but I just, I just cannot take, I don't have that bandwidth to, to, to do that emotionally.

I just want, anytime I open Canva, it's like, oh my gosh.

So I've had some people do some marketing for me, like do posts and that, but it doesn't feel the same.

I feel, I feel like I need to, to do that myself.

I don't mind to get help with some art, some stuff, but in terms of putting together the post and scripting and all of that, that needs to feel like, like me.

So anyway, all that to say don't come to me for marketing advice, I have none.

I really think it's important to know what you like to do and don't like to do as far as marketing goes, because if you don't like to do it, you're not going to do it.

Right.

So find a thing that really gravitates towards in for you, that is individually talking to people on Instagram, building community through like actual relationships versus like one to many.

Yeah.

And that doesn't mean that's going to work for everyone.

So it's really figure out what you like to do and yeah, if you need help, seek help.

If you don't think you want help, then just continue to figure out what it is you need to do that you can sustain, that is, that works to be sustainable and has to work and that, you know, feels aligned to you as an author and a creator.

Exactly, exactly.

And I think that's also an evolving process, you know, because before I wouldn't even sort of touch social media.

I was, I didn't know what I was doing.

I didn't want to get involved in that as I sort of stepped into it.

And then I said, oh, okay, wait a minute, I do like this aspect of it and I like that aspect.

And so I can lean on into those pockets that I really enjoy.

And so, yeah, I just think it is.

There's a lot of learning in the, in the process and that's good.

Yeah, just be willing to take chances is definitely one of those things.

Like you won't know if you like it or don't like it unless you've attempted it.

And also things are moving and evolving so rapidly all the time.

Like One day your posts on TikTok or reel or whatever could blow up and you keep trying to replicate the same thing, but it doesn't work anymore.

So it's really about like constantly testing yourself and being willing to mess up.

Because I think most of creative life is just a series of failures and finding out what works.

Right.

So how do we figure out what it is that we want to do and yeah, do it the way that we can and want to do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lots of lessons learned for sure.

Can you talk a little bit about that period between your first book and the second book?

What were the results of the first book after you released and what made you decide to come back?

So I, unbeknownst to me, because I wasn't trying to do that, but unbeknownst to me, because of my own experiences, it related to other people's experiences.

And that book, even with no marketing, it just completely took off and I, and I sold thousands of copies in the beginning and just, you know, things that indie authors don't often experience, at least not back back then, especially without a social media platform or any marketing.

So that that book did really well and I just didn't have the confidence in myself.

It felt like a fluke.

And even though it ended on a happy sort of for now message that you would expect, of course, a sequel.

And I had said a sequel, I just, I, I didn't know how to keep building on it.

And, and it's, I guess it sort of paralyzed me a bit in terms of the fear of it that I can't replicate this.

I don't even know what I did.

I just did this, this book.

And so, and I still had my, my job and, you know, so I just kind of put it aside and it was always there and sometimes I'd come back and, and work on book two, but I didn't really get serious about it till like Covid and when I was sort of home and you know, and that's when I did the second book and decided to release it.

But all that time I was not really focused on myself as an author.

I didn't even see myself as that.

I think last year was maybe the first time that I kind of said, okay, no, I'm an author.

But up until that Point I feel like I was kind of playing at it a bit and not having the confidence to own it as much as I am now.

So.

So though those years just were not spent with, you know, focused on my creativity, you know, and.

And now it's.

It's the reverse.

I still have my.

My job, but it has a lower priority and writing has.

Takes more.

Most of my.

My time and creative thought.

It's so interesting because there are things that are completely out of our control that will force us to do things that we feel like we should do.

Because at some.

Like in Covid, no one was going anywhere.

You were not seeing other people.

So you're pushed into the situation.

And sometimes we are fortunate in certain circumstances.

Obviously, Covid was not great.

It was terrible.

But in your particular case, it allowed you to, because of the four circumstances, lean into the thing that you've been wanting to do again.

So I think we just need to be prepared for any of the opportunities that come our way and just attune our creative senses to feel for those opportunities versus it can always be pushed back later.

Anything can be pushed back into the future.

Right.

So it's really finding and listening to your gut and.

Yeah.

Taking advantage of those opportunities.

Yeah.

And then I thought, you know, I'm coming back so, so many years later, the readers are gonna feel like, let down by me.

Like, where.

Where was.

Where's the book?

Like, you, you know, you said there was a book coming.

Where.

Where's this book?

So I really worried that my.

That the readers would lose fate, would have lost faith in me, wouldn't return.

And in some cases, I didn't even know how to reach them because I didn't know back then, like, to keep like email lists.

Like, I didn't do a newsletter.

I had nothing.

So I couldn't even tap into a lot of those of those people.

I think I was only using maybe Facebook then, and I never find that really that great.

But anyway, I put it out there and I said, sorry, you know, I did a video of explaining kind of where I was coming from.

And, you know, I had some people say, yeah, I read your book, and I can't wait to read books book too.

So I did have those.

Those loyal people who, who came back despite, you know, all of those.

Those years.

But I also found new readers.

I, you know, Naked Beauty did not see the same success as Fat Girl out of the Gate.

It sort of took time for it to build.

And I think as I wrote more stories and then people like those stories and they went, you know, they go to the back catalog.

Oh, she's got this and she has that.

So I've seen, I've seen the success sort of come that way, but I was really worried about letting my.

Letting my readers down and feeling like, you know, they're not going to be happy with me, that, that I took so long and.

Right.

And rightly so, honestly.

I mean, they had every right to feel that way.

So I really appreciate the ones that, that said, I'm sticking with you.

I don't care how long it's been, I'm going to read your book.

Yeah, that's.

At least you now realize the lesson that you maybe could have taken from that.

I think a lot of authors will ignore this particular thing is just to have the email list.

And that is because.

Not because email is like the best platform or anything, it's because you have control over it.

And people cannot dictate to you how you use the email addresses that you accumulate.

Because people have given you express permission.

Exactly.

Obviously, on Instagram, if they were to decide to just disable your account right now, there's nothing you can really do.

But if you have those same people on your email list, you can tell them, oh, this happened on Instagram.

So I need to figure out where we can all chat again.

Right, yeah.

So I think important.

That is probably the number one piece of advice as far as me coming from a marketing background goes.

It's just to have your own list.

So that way you have control of all the people who are reading your books and therefore you can do whatever.

It is that you need to do.

Exactly, exactly.

Yeah.

And I've.

And, and you know, your point about Instagram, you know, disabling the account.

I think a number of us authors, we have experienced the sort of, the punitive measures of Instagram if they don't like a particular thing that you're saying or doing.

The big one for me recently has been the not safe for work art.

So that's where it's a little bit sort of risque, you know, and, you know, more.

You might see they're usually illustrated copies of things, but they are still suggestive.

Sexually suggestive might be, you know, some nudity sort of thing.

But, you know, as black authors, we were experiencing, we felt that sort of a.

An in that we were more targeted and more penalized than our white authors when we were showing black bodies and fat black bodies at that.

So I had, I've already had two major restrictions placed on me because of that.

Where they have said inappropriate, you know, and I will see.

Wait a minute.

I just saw my, you know, a white author post something more risky than that.

And their post is, you know, has not been taken down.

So it's an interesting dynamic there that's, that's happening with the, with the way that Instagram, I guess, flags things and then the penalties that they, that they affect from there.

Yeah.

I'm not really sure how they detect these things, but I know a lot of the work that they do as far as moderation and guidelines and all of this stuff goes is AI.

There's no real person that you can get a hold of in order to say, this is not actually wrong.

Right.

It's just the system said it is what it is.

You're not big enough to matter to Instagram in order to get it changed.

Yeah.

So that's why we have to be aware of all the places that we're trying to build our audiences and knowing that if we can take them with us, that is the path that is the least risky.

Although we might not like writing emails or receiving emails or any of that stuff, it's still the only way that allows us to really keep in contact with people.

Because we don't have.

We're not asking for phone numbers or sms.

That's just for, like big companies.

Right.

And a lot of authors are doing like, Patreon accounts now because you have more latitude.

You can, you know, it's your, you can post kind of anything that you want there without the same kinds of consequences that, you know, the community social media platforms like Instagram, you know, try and, you know, say this is wrong and, you know, with, with, with a wide, with a wide brush that doesn't look at nuances of what you're doing.

So Patreon is another thing.

Of course, I'm not, I'm, I haven't done that yet.

But, but it is a thought, you know, about, about doing that.

You know, it's another way of connecting with, with, with readers as well.

Yeah, I, I really love the model of Patreon because it's.

Your direct supporters are essentially funding you to continue creating.

Right.

Which is a model.

It's not necessarily the model.

Right, Right.

So figure out whether that or not that makes sense to you.

And what, what is it that you're going to offer these people?

Because Patreon, as a creator on Patreon, you have to offer different tiers for different things that you offer to people.

And knowing that you have to hold yourself accountable to that commitment.

Right.

Is also something you have to take into consideration.

But it is like one of those, go back to the early days of funding the arts, coming from the people versus, you know, I have to worry about, you know, this book publisher to say, yes, exactly.

Exactly.

What do you think has made the biggest impact on you as both a creator and someone who needs to connect with people in their writing?

Yeah, I would definitely say that aside from sort of my, my friends, I have a strong author friendship base that, you know, I have two authors in particular that I write with.

And that's, that's been, that's been great because we hold each other accountable.

They're there.

You know, we can bounce ideas off of, off of each other.

It's not a competitive environment.

It's very supportive of each other.

Even though we're all writing romance, we appreciate that, you know, there's a market, you know, there's a, you know, that there's, there's enough market for, for all of us.

And so we, we sort of share openly.

And I think that that's been very, that has really helped me with my, with my writing, sort of sharpening my pen as well as just helping me in my confidence and things like that.

So I really love those two women that have had a major influence on me and they're, you know, amazing writers on top of it.

So that's inspirational right there.

And then, as I mentioned, you know, connecting with the, the readers and it, you know, it's, I, I, I do hate reviews.

I will say that I, I don't like them because, of course, they are people's personal opinions and you're not always going to like people's personal opinions and, but they're fair game.

And I do try and read them and kind of take what is meaningful to me.

That might make me a better author, like the person who just doesn't like my book.

Okay.

I mean, that's, that's, that's fair.

But if you give me something constructive that allows me, and I'm not saying the readers have a responsibility to do that.

I'm just saying just when they do, I do take that into the consideration.

And it's interesting because the last book that, that I wrote, some of the readers thought my, my main female character was too stubborn too.

You know, she didn't, she didn't give enough and she was too guarded and that kind of thing.

And, and even though I wasn't trying to change their opinions, I appreciated that they reached out and I could have a dialogue with them to talk about I don't apologize for writing her that way.

I think that's exactly how she needed to be written for, for me.

But that's okay if, if you don't like her that way.

But it was.

I loved having the dialogue about it and why, and why some readers felt like lot was this very difficult character.

But you know, she had some heartbreak and she, you know, she had some things that she put up the walls and she said like I'm not just going to let them down because you're showing me this or that.

No, you need to show up for me consistently and I need to, to see that.

And I think that's a powerful message for women to actually get.

But I also recognize that, you know, she's not nice and sweet and lovey dovey.

You won't like her because of, of that.

But I love the, the reader interaction even if we're not on the same page.

It's just learning and, and having that conversation I think is, is, is, is great.

So I appreciate that and that has had.

Had an influence on me and, and I think about those things as I go into my next book.

Not to be.

Not that I won't be true to the characters, but did something resonate that I want to kind of make sure I include as.

As I move forward.

What was a learning for me in that?

Yeah.

And just like any other review opinions, there's people that are going to love it and hate it.

I think it's actually better to have strong characters who can be loved or hated versus being indifferent towards them.

Exactly.

Your character is indifferent.

Yes.

You cannot recover from indifference.

You can.

No.

If you're just blah.

Yeah.

If your characters are strong enough either way it will attract opinion which is good and bad obviously.

But just knowing that if you're right for everyone, it's likely to not resonate with anyone.

Right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Can you talk a little bit about how you balance the writing since you said you still have your other job, how you balance your time with writing and doing other work.

It's a challenge some days especially because I'm, I'm a change management consultant.

So I work with, with companies in helping them kind of reframe their, their culture, whatever mergers and things like that.

So you know, it can be, you know, when I have, I'm on a client project, it can be very demanding and you know, take time and energy and you have to, you need that energy for the creative process.

So what I find works for me when I can, is that I do my, my work first.

To get that sort of out of the way and that's not on my mind and then I can free up myself to.

For the creative process.

I'm also a night owl, so writing into the night is, is comfortable for me.

Like I'm, I'm good with, good with that but you know, striking the balance and I'd add into that family and all of that.

You know, I have a daughter that, that needs me too.

And so, you know, just, just making sure that, you know, I'm untrue to all of those things.

That.

Because without that nothing else is going to.

To matter anyway.

So, you know, it's finding that.

That balance.

Yeah.

I think it's always important for people to figure out for themselves what the best way to work is because you can follow anyone's advice and be like, oh, that didn't work.

And it doesn't mean that it doesn't work generally.

It just means it doesn't work for that person exactly.

In the circumstances that they're in currently.

Because things can change for yourself as well.

It doesn't mean just because it worked in the past doesn't mean it'll work work now.

So it's just really in this moment, what is the best way to proceed in order to get the things I want to do done right.

Yeah, yeah, no, exactly right.

I got a couple more questions.

Sure.

What is the biggest piece of advice you would give to an aspiring author standing out in their writing or in their author journey?

The first thing I would say is right, because I think that people get.

You think I have to write for it to go somewhere?

No, you, you don't like just write because you can figure that out, you know, at, at the end of it.

But if you don't write, then there's nothing to.

To do with it.

And I think that people can get blocked by the whole, oh my gosh, and then I have to publish and then I have to do this and I have to do that.

Forget all that initially and just write the story that you want to.

To tell and make that your.

And make that your focus.

That's not to say you shouldn't be mindful of the marketing and all of those pieces.

I think that's really important.

But none of that matters without, without a book to write.

And I know so many people who have partial things done all over the place and not bringing any one thing to, to completion.

So I would just say finish your book as the, as the number one piece of advice, even if it's crap like, that's okay too, because you can, you can rewrite, you can refine, you can do all of those, those things and maybe the first book isn't going to go anywhere, but it gives you learning for the next, for the next book, because it's one of those skills that you have to practice.

Like you, you have to hone your writing by writing more and by reading as well because it helps you to be a, a better writer.

So I would say that those are the, that's the advice that I would give to, to somebody who's aspiring to be a writer.

Yeah.

You can only be a writer if you write.

You write and like, and making it sort of the daily thing.

Like I try and write every day whether I have a book that, you know, do or not do.

Just because it is a skill and you should practice it.

Yeah.

And that doesn't mean you have to have a specific way of writing.

I talked to somebody that said that she dictated her book because she was nursing at the time of her wanting this book to come out.

So figure out what it is that you can do in any capacity.

Write it down, speak it, you know, relay it to somebody, messenger position, whatever it is.

Yeah.

In order to get it done.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's just.

And you know, some people do better with an outline.

And I would say for that, like, make sure you know what works for you.

Are you an outline kind of person that you want to have, you know, some things scripted out so that you have a guideline to follow.

One of the, the women that I, that I write with, she likes to do a very detailed, like she almost writes her, her book in the outline.

Right.

She's, she's got so much detail so that when she sits down to write it, she's got all of this info that she's just sort of fleshing out.

But I don't write like that.

I have tried and that doesn't work for me.

So I just like to blank canvas it.

I'm going to Blue Sky.

I'm like going to just.

I'm going to go and let the characters take me where they take me.

But that's not for everybody.

And so you need to know what works for you so you can put those kind of tools and systems in place that are going to help you to, to write more effectively.

And that's just I think sometimes that's just trial and error.

Yeah.

Figure out what it is that works best for you.

Just like in when to find time to write.

It's also when you're writing.

Here's how it works best for me.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Do you need silence?

Do you need music?

You know what?

You know, is there a particular place in the house that works better?

Are you better at a coffee shop?

Like all of those things matter for, for your creative process and how that's going to all kind of marry together to allow you to, to.

To do what, what you love to do.

Who are some standout authors that you know?

I guess it really depends.

On what, on what I'm looking for specifically.

You know, I do read a lot of black romance because I, I want to support black authors, but I am also a big supporter of indie authors.

So even though, no, no, no shade to Kennedy Ryan, she is amazing.

She writes amazing stories and people love her.

She's probably not going to be the person that I'm going to go to first because I don't feel like she really needs me.

So I'm going to look for more of, you know, the black in indie author.

And there are so many, so I'm not even going to try and name them.

I'm just going to say that I, that I love that and I love also authors who are writing any kind of diversity rep, whether it's mental illness, whether it's, you know, diversity and culture, like whatever.

I want to, I want to read those books so I can expand my world.

And I also want to just support what people are doing around that.

So if I'm looking for books, I am definitely looking for indie and I am looking for as diverse as I can get.

You know, queer rep is really important, you know, and having these positive experiences with that.

So not writing it as stereotypes, but writing it as real authentic people who are living that, that experience and doing it in a respectful way.

Awesome.

In a similar vein, what do you want people to take away from your writing?

Well, I hope that people take away something kind of that touches them.

Like, even though if I'll write a book like my last one that has a lot of humor in it, I am also trying to, to touch you in, in some way.

And I, I write a lot about family dynamics because I find those interesting and there's all.

And there's so much material there to work with, whether your family's totally dysfunctional or, or, you know, a little dysfunctional.

We're, we, we're.

We're all somewhere on that, that spectrum.

So I think that's a relatable one.

So I, Yeah.

So I hope that people take that away.

That, oh, this, this is authentic.

This feels real to me.

And I, and also, you know, about the positivity around being, being black, being fat.

I want people to, to feel, to see themselves in, in my work.

And that means a lot when, when readers reach out and say, like, I felt really seen by that I wrote one, one book.

And it's, it's really timely for January because I know with all these sort of New Year's resolutions with the, with the diet culture and, and all of that, you know, where people are running to the gym now to, to lose weight because they feel bad that they ate over the, over the holidays or what.

What have you.

And I wrote this book called My Curvy Rival, and she is a gym owner.

She used to be about ballet dancer, and she faced a lot of fat phobia in the dance world.

So she took it upon herself, say, no, I'm gonna establish this inclusive gym that really is body positive.

And we work out for the joy of, of movement and of, you know, that and to feel good as, and sweat as opposed to trying to reduce, you know, don't try and shrink us.

Right.

If you want to shrink, I'm not against that either, but I'm just saying that people don't have to do that for that purpose.

And so when people read My Curvy Rival and they're going, yes, this is what I needed, like, because I, I like to work out, but I don't, but I don't work out just, you know, I don't work out to, to lose weight.

And people don't seem to understand that.

They.

Let's say, well, then what are you working out for?

Right.

You can work out, you know, for other, for other reasons that are just feel good reasons.

And so that was.

Those are the kind of stories that I want to tell where people go.

Yeah, that, you know, I get that.

I feel that.

And thanks for, for putting this into a, to a story that resonates.

Yeah.

It's always important to.

Well, if that's your goal, to have like a positive message with your writing.

Yes.

If that's what you want to do.

That is what I want to do.

Yeah.

Versus.

I mean, there's.

Obviously you can write for other reasons, but.

Oh, yeah.

Definitely know your message in why you're writing.

Yes.

And, and really dig into it.

So that way it resonates with people.

Because I Think the more specific you are in your writing and your message, the more likely it is to connect with somebody.

Yeah, that's what I hope.

Can you give a challenge to the people who are listening to this on how to be a standout author?

Well, I'm gonna say, you know, at the risk of repeating myself, I do think it comes down to authenticity, of being true to yourself.

I spoke to one.

One author.

She wrote this book, and this book was wild and would not be for everyone.

And it was a dark romance with.

With some violence that some people would probably find hard to get past.

And so I was having a discussion with her about, like, why, because, you know, you're going to turn off some people with this.

And she said, yeah, but I write the stories for me and the people, then that.

That love that I hope will.

Will come to me, but I don't write for anyone else as sort of.

And I think.

And at first I thought, is that like, a selfish approach to writing?

But no, like, it makes sense that if you can, only if you're not true to yourself, as you had mentioned before, people are going to see through that.

So, like it or not, you have to, you know, write the stories, tell the stories that you want to tell.

And I think that's what people will see.

That's what will resonate that authenticity that people can relate to.

So forget the tropes.

I'm not saying don't use them, but, like, don't.

Oh, fake dating is really popular.

I'm going to write myself a fake dating book.

Because I think when you take it from that standpoint, the story is not going to be as strong as if you have a story to tell.

And fake dating is just a part of that.

A part of that story.

Yeah.

What can you do beyond just the general idea of the story that makes it more specific and relatable?

Because anyone can write a book about fake dating.

But there's a.

There's a story that's deeper than that.

If you're gonna write that type of story, what is it about that that speaks to you?

Exactly, exactly.

And it's also okay to write a story that's just fun.

Like, just own whatever.

Like, if you're saying, I just want to write, like, some good, fun smut, and I'm putting it out there and that's it.

Because people love that too.

But, you know, you just have to be.

You know, you just have to be honest with what kind of book you're.

You're.

You're writing so that the reader can you know that reader that picks it up says, yeah, this is what I'm looking for.

This is what I want, because that makes for a better reading experience.

So don't try and, you know, be something that you're.

You're not.

Awesome.

Well, Lee, this has been amazing chatting with you.

Can you let people know where they can find you and all your books and stuff?

Yes, they can find me mostly on Instagram because that's.

That's where I'm most comfortable.

So you can find me there at Lee Cara Author.

At Lee Cara Author.

My website is Lee Caron.com and I did.

I don't have commerce on there yet, so all my books are bought through Amazon for.

For right now.

And I'm on Kindle Unlimited.

If people are subscribed to that so they can page reads.

Yeah.

Can you spell that out so that people know how.

How to put it in?

Yeah.

L, E, I, G, H, C, A, R, R, O, N. And for Instagram, you add author to that.

All right, Lee, it's been a pleasure talking to you.

It's been great.

Kevin, thank you so much for your time and interest and I guess just giving, you know, authors like me this kind of profile and opportunity.

It's much appreciated.

All right, bye.

Thanks for joining us.

If you're an author thinking about voice visibility or how to show up without losing yourself, you can learn more@outout authors.com to listen to past episodes of Standout Authors Unbound, head to standout authors.com unbound.

If you know someone whose story deserves more room, share this episode with them.

And if you want to keep the conversation going, you can find me on Instagram and Creative Business.

Until next time, keep writing, everyone.

Sam.