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Medical Advocacy with Sarah Jane Yang
Episode 5 • 9th November 2023 • The Nutrition Edit • Jeannie Oliver Wellness, LLC
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In this episode I’m talking with Sarah Jane Yang, RN about what medical advocacy is and how an advocate can help you navigate the complex healthcare and insurance systems. Dealing with your own or a loved ones’ health problems is difficult and stressful enough without having to wade through the endless red tape and bureaucracy, but you don’t have to go it alone! If you’re in a caregiving position or know someone who is, this episode is for you. 

About Sarah Jane:

Sarah Jane Yang is a Masters prepared Registered Nurse and Healthcare Advocate.

Her time at major urban academic medical centers such as Harborview in Seattle and Weil-Cornell Medical Center in New York City, shaped her early career with rich learning environments, and her intensive care specialization gave her advanced training in cardiothoracic resuscitation and neurological emergencies.

This scientific base has been a solid foundation upon which to lay disease specific program management experience, hospital quality leadership training, and strategic relationship building skills.

During her 15-year career as an RN, Sarah Jane has earned additional certifications and honors including a feature in the Washington Post in 2023, a first author medical research publication in the Journal of Stroke & Cerebrovascular Disease in 2019, and in 2018 she received the Mary McClinton Patient Safety Award. She has also earned the Stroke Certified Registered Nurse (SCRN®) credential, and the Critical Care RN Certification (CCRN®).

What is a Healthcare Advocate?

Healthcare Advocacy is a burgeoning field that requires compassion, tenacity, and accountability. Businesses and individuals all over the United States have begun to seek out highly skilled health advocates to creatively solve individual and system level issues for patients and organizations.

As an expert consultant, a Healthcare Advocate will help guide the care of individuals and populations to make healthcare goals become a reality. The benefit of having your own Healthcare Advocate is that an Advocate will continue working with you and your company until resolution is found for your healthcare related challenges.

Where you can find Sarah Jane:

www.lighthousehealthcarenavigation.com

www.greyzonehealth.com

9 tips to help you negotiate a medical bill

 

Also mentioned in this episode:

Nicole Field, Somatic Stress Relief Practitioner

Interested in working with Jeannie? Schedule a 30-minute Coffee Talk here.

Connect with me on Instagram @joliverwellness and check out the options for my more affordable self-study programs here: https://www.joliverwellness.com/diy-programs

Music credit: Funk’d Up by Reaktor Productions

A Podcast Launch Bestie production

Transcripts

Speaker:

Hey there and welcome to

the nutrition edit podcast.

2

:

I'm your host, Jeannie Oliver.

3

:

And today I'm going to be talking with

Sarah Jane Yang about medical advocacy.

4

:

Sarah Jane is a master's prepared

registered nurse and healthcare advocate.

5

:

Her time at major urban academic medical

centers, such as Harborview in Seattle and

6

:

while Cornell medical center in New York

city shaped her early career with rich

7

:

learning environments and her intensive

care specialization gave her advanced

8

:

training in cardiothoracic resuscitation

and neurological emergencies.

9

:

This scientific base has been a solid

foundation upon which to lay disease

10

:

specific program management experience,

hospital quality leadership training, and

11

:

strategic relationship building skills.

12

:

During her 15 year career as an RN, Sarah

Jane has earned additional certification

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:

and honors, including a 2023 feature

in the Washington Post, a first author

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:

medical research publication in the

Journal of Stroke and Cerebrovascular

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:

Disease in 2019, And in 2018, she received

the Mary McClinton Patient Safety Award.

16

:

She has also earned the Stroke Certified

Registered Nurse Credential and

17

:

the Critical Care RN Certification.

18

:

Today, I'll be talking with Sarah Jane

about what medical advocacy is and how

19

:

an advocate can help you navigate the

complex healthcare and insurance systems.

20

:

Dealing with your own or a loved

one's health problems is difficult

21

:

and stressful enough without having

to wade through the endless red tape

22

:

and bureaucracy, but the good news

is you don't have to go it alone.

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:

And if you're in a caregiving

position or, you know, someone

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:

who is this episode is for you.

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:

So I hope you'll enjoy my

interview with Sarah Jane Yang.

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Hey, Sarah Jane.

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Thanks so much for joining me today.

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It's great to see you.

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Thanks.

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Yeah.

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I'm happy to be here.

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I'm stoked to have you.

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I've been wanting to chat about

what you do for a really long time.

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So let's just kick it off and

tell us a little bit about

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yourself and your background.

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Sure.

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So I am a health advocate.

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My background is actually

as a hospital nurse.

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So I spent 10 years As an intensive care

nurse, primarily with a little bit of

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work in the emergency room and surgery.

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And then I became, worked in

administration and I learned a lot about

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how the healthcare system works or, more

accurately to say, doesn't work very well.

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And in 2021, I started Lighthouse

Healthcare Navigation, which is the

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business that I run now and function

as a medical health advocate.

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Awesome.

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So what made you want to become

a nurse in the first place?

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I would say that some combination of

loving science, having deep natural

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empathy and being codependent is

probably what brought me to nursing

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and any of my nurses out there.

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I think you probably

know exactly what I mean.

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I believe it.

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I believe it.

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I can relate to the empathy piece.

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Yeah, for sure.

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For sure.

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Okay.

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So as an empath, I'm curious to know

more, especially about your four

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years in hospital administration.

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Oh yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think, I think, so my take on

hospital administration management, I

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guess you could say, but really what

I was doing was managing quality for

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specific types of patients, specifically

stroke patients, but then it expanded

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to other types of neurologic disease.

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So as an empath.

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I found my meaning by deciding that

I wasn't taking care of patients

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as much as I was taking care of

healthcare providers at that point.

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So I tried to use my time in that

role to support the people who

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were taking care of the patients.

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And that's how I was able to

really find meaning and try to.

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Find as much good as I can in the work

that we were doing and so my favorite

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thing to do in that role was to take an

individual patient story, say a stroke

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patient from when they had symptoms at

home, they come in through the emergency

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department, they end up having to go

to the cath lab, say, where they put

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a wire up inside and they try to do

something to actually remove the clot.

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So blood flow is restored to the brain all

the way to that patient being wheeled into

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the intensive care unit for three days and

then on to the acute care nursing unit.

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What I tried to do was weave that as a

complete story and deliver it back to

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the healthcare providers and show them,

look what a masterful thing happened

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here where there was actually, for

one patient in particular, I remember

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doing this and there was, I think there

was 56 different healthcare providers

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that touched this patient within

their first 72 hours in the hospital.

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Wow.

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And blood flow was restored

to that region of their brain.

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So it's like very exciting what

healthcare is capable of doing.

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that is an area where I would say

healthcare really gets it right.

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American typical hospital systems,

emergency care, restoring blood

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flow, making heart speed again,

breathing when you're not breathing.

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Yeah.

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These are things that we are

good at as healthcare providers.

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I would say after that, it gets pretty

dicey, unfortunately at that urgent

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level of healthcare and it's been really

gratifying as now, working privately

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for patients as a healthcare advocate.

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To try to make some of the other parts

of the system work as well as I have

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seen the emergency and intensive care

parts of American healthcare work.

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Yeah, that's fascinating.

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I definitely agree with that.

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We get the acute intervention piece.

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Yeah, I think we do a great job.

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Not so much the prevention or

necessarily the follow up and rehab.

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Oh, absolutely.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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It really drops off.

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And, and that has nothing to do, in

my opinion, with the quality of the

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individual health care providers.

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Sure.

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I feel incredibly protective of

individual physicians, nurses,

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therapists, social workers.

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The weight that they are operating under.

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Yeah.

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Is enormous.

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The amount of work that each

person gets squeezed out of them

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by primarily the financial forces

above them, it's remarkable.

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And crushing.

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It's crushing.

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It's absolutely crushing.

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And, and I think that all of us

get into health care because we.

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We genuinely enjoy watching

someone else get better.

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I mean, if you want to become famous

and wealthy, there's a hundred

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thousand easier ways to do it.

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Yeah.

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That don't require malpractice insurance.

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Or watching people suffer or all

the times you don't have answers

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and you wish you did, you know?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So, I think that what is able to be

accomplished is actually remarkable.

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However, It's really important

for the individual patient to

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understand how weak the systems are.

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I'm sorry to say, and how much personal

advocacy is necessary for you to get

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your best results from healthcare.

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. So Sarah Jane, tell me then how do you

define medical advocacy and how did you

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make the transition from what you have

been doing in nursing into doing this?

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Yeah.

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So a professional health advocate is

a guide through the healthcare system.

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You think of it like a local person

keeping you safe and comfortable.

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on an international journey into

a country that can be amazing, but

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also you don't know it as well.

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There can be hidden dangers that you

aren't aware of because you're not local.

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So it's like taking a local with you.

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I translate the language because

believe me, it's a different language.

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I read the maps.

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I stay with you the whole time.

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I make sure you or your loved

one get to where they want to go.

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Another key difference between what

a healthcare advocate does and what

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say any of your doctors and nurses

do in your healthcare is my only

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concern are your priorities because

you're directly paid by the patient.

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, it's a totally, totally different

experience than having a nurse or a

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doctor who might wish very much that

they could hold your priorities in

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the highest esteem and hold your hand

through every step of the process.

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Right.

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The reality is they're dealing with forces

above them, and that is who they work for.

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They work for their clinic, they

work for their hospital, they

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don't work for you directly.

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It's very indirect, the

relationship with you.

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Yeah, that makes really good sense.

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It's almost like a political

system in that way.

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Yes, you could, yes, when

we're talking systems.

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The legislator may want to vote

exactly as their constituents wish,

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but there are lobbyists involved

and other powers that be, so.

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Yes, absolutely.

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There are.

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Definitely competing interests and

it matters who signs your check.

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It really does.

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Right.

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I've never had such a direct satisfaction

of taking care of clients and patients

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because it's, it's us together.

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And we're figuring it out step by step

while having wonderful relationships with

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any different specialists that needs to

be involved in you meeting your goals.

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I mean, they are, they are key.

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We are navigating what

they're able to provide us.

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It's not direct healthcare.

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So I would imagine too, that that's a

huge relief for the practitioner as well.

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Oh yeah.

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That they have someone that's

actually guiding their patient

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through and making sure that

their needs are met on all these.

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Angles are these different,

you know, aspects of this

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process that they can't manage.

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They don't have the bandwidth or ability.

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Um, but naturally I do think

that most physicians want

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the best for their patients.

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Right.

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And there's only so much that they can do.

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So having someone like you that's walking

them through the whole process is Amazing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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The relationships that I have been able

to forge with physicians, entire clinics,

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nurses, medical assistants, patient

service representatives at the front end,

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therapists, I could go on and on and on.

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There's so many, there's so many different

ways that medical advocates are able to

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bridge the gaps in the healthcare system.

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And it builds this real sense of team

around the patient and it makes you

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memorable and it makes people kind of

root for you along with us because.

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They know they're supported in their

work and it makes them, I think,

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more likely to honestly say what they

really think because you want to offer

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a treatment if they think there's no

way it's going to be feasible because

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it won't ever happen because you

got to call the insurance company.

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It's a drug trial.

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It's, there's so many steps to it.

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Once I have a good relationship with

the physician, we start being able to

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really think creatively for some of these

really tough patients because they know

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that the follow through is there because

that's where my accountability lies.

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We'll get, we'll, we'll get the

ball over the line, whatever that

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goal is, however, I can affect it.

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We're going to affect it.

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And you have the knowledge and

medical background to understand.

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What's going on?

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I understand the health

aspects, but also the system.

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Yep.

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There's a short hand.

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Yeah, excuse me.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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There's a shorthand.

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So The physician and the nurses can

speak to me very plainly Mm hmm, and

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I'm also imagine I'm also managing a

lot of the emotional support piece And

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so from an efficient it sounds cold

But from an efficiency standpoint and

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oncologist can just talk to me, right?

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It'll it could be Truly a 45 second

conversation for that person.

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If they had been having that conversation

directly with the patient, it would

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have been much, much larger endeavor

because of all of the emotions involved.

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I also deeply understand

the emotional piece.

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So that's where I'm able to translate.

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So there's.

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Translation of what the actual

drugs mean, the receptors, the

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drugs act on the physiology.

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There's that translation and teaching

that I like to do for my clients, but

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there's also the emotional translation.

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I know that oncologist has deep

feelings and wants their patient

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to have the highest quality

of life and the longest life.

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They get to just...

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Download that information to me in a dry

manner, and then together, we can have

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a conversation with the patient that's

a lot more skilled because they know

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I'm going to handle that piece of it.

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Right.

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Versus the doctor trying to tiptoe

around and deliver something gently.

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That's.

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Not gentle.

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Yeah, or thinking they're saying

something in an emotionally skilled

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way, but right god bless them They

are not emotionally skilled Sure.

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Yeah, so they're doing

their absolute best, right?

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and so there's a lot of there's a

lot of gentle changes to phrasing and

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Gentle reminders of who the patient

is and who they're talking to that can

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occur that can completely change the

relationship I'm a physician and it's,

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that's the most satisfying thing to

me is that almost like mediation work.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's beautiful.

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Yeah.

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So who are your typical clients or

who would benefit most from having a

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medical advocate or working with you?

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So I would say that

there's two main camps.

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One are people.

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That don't have life

and death health issues.

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They're, they're not say permanently

disabled from their condition or having

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a threat to the length of their life.

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However, their time and their

stress is worth having someone

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like me who can probably get things

done in a quarter of the time.

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That they would spend doing

it themselves personally.

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I'm probably going to do it

far more effectively because

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I already know the system.

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And so I'm, I'm a person on their

team, so they delegate health

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related administrative tasks

to me and I take care of it.

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And so they might just have some

pretty simple things to manage, but I'm

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able to take care of those for them.

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The other.

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Group, I would say of clients that I take

are people for whom their health is the,

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the, the largest thing on their mind on

any given day for any number of reasons,

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perhaps for their quality of life, or

perhaps because they have a new terminal

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diagnosis that they're navigating and, for

those folks, I'm, I'm involved in their

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care, not just as a time saver, But as a,

say, diagnostic advocate so they've been

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given one diagnosis, they've been given

the treatment, but nothing's changing.

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Oh yeah.

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Symptoms are still there.

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The fatigue is crushing.

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The, the headaches absolutely will not

go away, continue to be unable to work.

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So the question becomes, do

we have the right diagnosis?

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Or if we have the right diagnosis, what's

the next step in the treatment plan?

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And sometimes the.

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The physician who originally, the

provider that originally diagnosed

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you, that, that, that was it.

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That's what they had to offer.

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And you might not realize that you,

it's time to move on at that point.

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You can go to somebody else or

go back to the first physician

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and have a conversation, but you

might realize that it's time to

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bring another specialist in here.

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Either, even within specialties, there's

subspecialties and then microspecialties.

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Oh my gosh.

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Subspecialties, right?

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Yeah.

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And so it takes research

to find the right fit.

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And so in that way, we can navigate,

improving your diagnosis or improving

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your treatment for what does turn

out to be the correct diagnosis, but

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it's all worth questioning if you're

not getting the results that you

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should from your treatment, right?

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And.

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I would think it would be so difficult

as someone dealing with a chronic

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illness or terminal illness, just

to even muster the energy to go

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there and to try and navigate that.

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So doing that on your own or even having

a family member try and do it for you,

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it would be completely overwhelming

and exhausting when you already have,

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you know, nothing left in the tank.

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Absolutely.

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What I'm hoping to do for people

is to let them be the patient

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again, instead of the scheduler.

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The medical researcher, the

insurance specialist, you

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could go on and on and on.

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But yeah, so when the client

or the say, the children of

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the aging parents that have.

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Hired me for their services, you guys let

me know the priority and then I will take

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care of all the logistics from there.

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And I'll check back in with you

at whatever intervals you want.

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So some people are say minimum contact.

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Just let me know when we've achieved

the goal more than happy to do that.

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Some people want to have, you know,

every couple of days we check back

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in and You We find out where we're

at in the process and they're kind

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of closer to steering the ship.

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But yeah, you can let me know.

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We want to, , have this diagnosis

reevaluated by another specialist.

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And then I'm going to come back to

you with a list of three physicians

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that can see you within the next

two months, say pulling, , pulling

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that out of the air, but can see

you within the next two months.

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to take another look at your condition.

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Or maybe sometimes I get lucky

and I'm able to get a physician

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to review your case without even

having you sit in front of them.

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Yeah.

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And then get kind of a, an extremely

offhanded preliminary report of what

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might be happening just because of

the relationships I already have

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with so many different specialists.

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And then that can guide us before

we've even used your energy to

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show up at the doctor's office.

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And that's amazing because I'm

sure that most people wouldn't have

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access to those people necessarily.

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No, and although I will say you'd be

amazed what can happen if you ask.

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So even if you're not able to, or

you don't want to work with a medical

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advocate, it doesn't hurt to ask.

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I mean, , email addresses

are available online.

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Yeah.

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For people.

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So if you have something that you're

researching for yourself medically, some

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interest that you have, find the study.

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On the internet and then go to the end of

the study and then find the email address

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of the people involved in the study.

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Usually the first author, second author,

third author tend to be the people

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that are going to be the most closely

involved with the theory behind the study.

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Right.

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Email them your story.

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See what happens.

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You'd be amazed.

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to actually what amount of information

you're able to get, because if

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your condition matches the clinical

interest of a very active researcher,

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you actually have something

valuable to provide them as well.

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Oh, that's really cool.

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I had no idea.

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That wouldn't have occurred to me.

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You could get, you could get some off the

cuff thoughts from some of the deepest

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thinkers in your specific condition.

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Without any of the rigmarole

it's it has happened.

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It doesn't always happen, but it

has happened and it's amazing.

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Absolutely worth trying.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Very cool.

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Yeah, that's a good one.

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I want to jump back a little

bit and talk about the emotional

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aspect of this because I think.

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Knowing you and you being a very

empathic person, talk a little bit

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into that and the just the importance

of people caring for their mental and

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emotional health through this, whether

they're the patient or the caregiver.

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Um, and how that factors into what you're

doing with them in the advocacy role.

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Yeah, sure.

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Well, I feel like backing up and

telling my mom's story a little bit

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because she, I think, had a life

story that is very helpful to this

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conversation and it Makes sense.

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Molded my initial outlook on

being a nurse, and then now

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informs the way I want to be here.

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And you know, the second act of my life

as I, as I get older and have my own

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children and, move forward in life.

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, so my mother was my absolute role

model growing up and she was and

378

:

continues to be the most giving person.

379

:

, I've been in relationship with.

380

:

It was, it was a level of selflessness

that embedded in me that that

381

:

is how you are a good person.

382

:

first of all, she adopted three

children who had been ravaged

383

:

by the foster care system.

384

:

These are my three older siblings and

endured horrors before she adopted them.

385

:

Adored them.

386

:

Loved them.

387

:

They're absolutely my family members.

388

:

And when I was born into this family,

I immediately, like from birth, because

389

:

somehow I was born after she didn't

have children for 20 years, no birth

390

:

control, then at 40, all of a sudden

she had a child and that was me.

391

:

And I had three older brothers and sisters

that had had an, an extremely different.

392

:

Early childhood experience.

393

:

So adopted at age six, adopted

at age five and adopted at nine

394

:

months, but had already had three

different foster families at nine

395

:

months, even heartbreaking coming in.

396

:

Yeah.

397

:

And so, I was born knowing that there are

extremely different life circumstances.

398

:

I didn't have to learn that

because my family taught me that.

399

:

And I was born knowing you can make

an enormous difference in somebody's

400

:

life by first of all, acknowledging

the experience that they're having.

401

:

And then by taking action.

402

:

And so I am forever grateful for

being born into that experience

403

:

and for knowing that in my bones

from always understanding where my

404

:

blessings lie, where my privilege lies.

405

:

The next part though,

was having to understand.

406

:

where those boundaries lie.

407

:

Because if you don't have skin

around your spirituality and your

408

:

empathy, you pour yourself out in

such a way that is so inefficient.

409

:

You can actually evaporate and I watched

my mother evaporate, essentially.

410

:

I mean, I gave one example of within

my family, the kind of empathy and

411

:

service that she needed to provide

emotionally for other people.

412

:

She was also a third grade teacher.

413

:

And, uh, any child in her class that

had looked like they had any financial

414

:

issues that didn't look like they were

having their hygiene needs met at home.

415

:

I mean, before you know it, my

mother was meeting all of those

416

:

needs and it was, it was so.

417

:

right?

418

:

One example of that was a child that she

knew was probably enduring physical abuse.

419

:

And this was a third grade child

that didn't know his own birthday,

420

:

which was just wild, right?

421

:

I don't actually know how you make it to

third grade without knowing your birthday.

422

:

But this is what my mother told me.

423

:

And what I saw her do for this kid who,

so this little boy loved Harry Potter.

424

:

He learned to read in the third

grade with my mom and he learned

425

:

to read because he loved it.

426

:

The book Harry Potter so much and

he got more and more into the story

427

:

and he lived in a poor part of

town where I grew up and my mother

428

:

orchestrated fake owls to deliver.

429

:

Letters to this kid's trailer.

430

:

I mean, it sounds, it sounds made up.

431

:

Like, it sounds like if this was

a movie plot, you'd throw it out

432

:

because it's like two on the nose.

433

:

Right.

434

:

Yeah.

435

:

But so she got my brother who was like

19 or something at the time to bring

436

:

letters to the kid's front door and

say, an owl gave me this to give you

437

:

an inside the letter was a description

of what a special, special boy he was

438

:

.

And how there are greater things beyond the life that he lives and how if he holds

439

:

on to his goodness, like he'll continue,

like this, this was one example of the

440

:

kind of stuff my mother did amazing.

441

:

By the way, she kept

this up for two years.

442

:

Eventually this culminated into

a trip to target because she

443

:

said that he won some contest.

444

:

I assure you he did not win a contest, but

she created the reality she wished existed

445

:

for this child and there are a lot of

things that can be true at the same time.

446

:

So I don't begrudge, a single act of

goodness that she did for the world.

447

:

And I couldn't even begin

to list all of them.

448

:

The problem was.

449

:

She had no skin for herself.

450

:

. She's in heaven now.

451

:

God bless you, mother.

452

:

She had no sense of.

453

:

What were her emotions and

experiences and what were other

454

:

people's emotions and experiences?

455

:

Yeah, it's just too

porous taking all that on.

456

:

And I watched it happen and she

had no health habits to speak of.

457

:

I mean, that's an exaggeration,

but self care was not an issue

458

:

or another thing in her life.

459

:

No, what she was going to feed herself.

460

:

was 10th on the list.

461

:

What exercise she was going to

give her body was 10th on the list.

462

:

She had separated herself

from her body so long ago.

463

:

Yeah.

464

:

I don't think she had the possibility

of beginning to understand

465

:

what her lived experience was.

466

:

She lived through other people and

gravitated toward other people's

467

:

emotional voids because filling

them allowed her to experience that

468

:

vicarious joy of their happiness for

that moment, reflecting back onto her.

469

:

Okay.

470

:

So that was my role model and I,

and I didn't come close to creating

471

:

an imaginary world for an abused

eight year old boy for two years.

472

:

Okay.

473

:

Like that, I did not accomplish

that level of service that she did,

474

:

but that was very much my mindset.

475

:

And anytime there was a problem,

I felt the need to fill it.

476

:

So when somebody needed money, regardless

of whether that money was going to go

477

:

to feed a drug habit, I had to fill it.

478

:

So, you know, if a family member

tells me they need 20 for gas and

479

:

mayonnaise, but I'm pretty sure

that money is going to get used for.

480

:

Not gas and mayonnaise.

481

:

I'm still giving them the

20 because I don't have an

482

:

experience separate from them.

483

:

I am having their experience or

whatever they're projecting onto me.

484

:

It It pours you out entirely.

485

:

And then you don't even want to know

what's going on in your own body

486

:

anymore, because it's too scary.

487

:

.

So it can be a really powerful gift because I would say that like my

488

:

mother, I have a natural understanding

of another person's emotional

489

:

state without having to even speak.

490

:

Not always, and it's not perfect,

but often a lot of nurses do.

491

:

Yeah, a lot, a lot just

pick up on it automatically.

492

:

A lot of nurses do.

493

:

Yeah.

494

:

The other side of that is I have to hold

on to my own because if I fall down into

495

:

that emotional well with somebody, how,

then how are any of us going to get out?

496

:

Right.

497

:

Yeah.

498

:

And yeah, and my, my

mother's life ended early.

499

:

And I believe on a spiritual level that

it mostly had to do with her inability

500

:

to be inside her own experience and

to allow other people to have the

501

:

life that their soul, in my beliefs,

you know, chose for this incarnation.

502

:

And so there's a real balance.

503

:

I think one of my missions in life

and something that my business has

504

:

allowed me to really explore is what

is that balance between service.

505

:

And continuing to put fuel in your

own ship, which has to keep running

506

:

, and , I'll always struggle with that

and I'll always be the person that

507

:

enjoys filling somebody else's need.

508

:

but I have learned now, as

I'm, you know, approaching 40,

509

:

I think I'm sort of learning.

510

:

I'm trying to learn, how

to do that sustainably.

511

:

Yeah, I'm still learning that too.

512

:

I can relate to that.

513

:

I don't think it's, it goes as deep

with me as it does for you necessarily,

514

:

but I definitely am an empath and

I've really in some cases had to learn

515

:

the hard way of how to create healthy

boundaries, how to manage my energy.

516

:

Output inputs.

517

:

you know, I have a background

working in chronic illness and

518

:

with Lyme disease patients.

519

:

And when you're around that all the

time, it can be really difficult

520

:

to not take all of that on.

521

:

These people are dealing with constant.

522

:

Chronic problems and

you're hearing about it.

523

:

Yeah, 24 7.

524

:

You really have to learn to create

that partition Between your work

525

:

life and who you are in your

personal life and your own health.

526

:

Yep you know something I've learned

about this is There's actually a

527

:

bit of ego quite a bit of ego In

the person that feels personally

528

:

responsible for everyone else's pain.

529

:

What saves me the most from the

downsides of being an empath is

530

:

the practice of humility, because.

531

:

I didn't create the world.

532

:

I didn't create illness.

533

:

I didn't create pain.

534

:

I didn't create joy with my clients.

535

:

I have learned.

536

:

I can no more take credit for their

wins and their health gains than

537

:

I can take credit for their pain.

538

:

It isn't about me.

539

:

Yeah.

540

:

Right.

541

:

So when I remind Myself as I'm trying

to care for somebody else and, and, and

542

:

it's not going the way I wish it would,

which happens all the time in life, right?

543

:

And my loved ones, sometimes with my

clients, I try to think I'm helping

544

:

my clients, but you know, sometimes

it doesn't go the way we want.

545

:

when I'm able to remember my place

in the world and remember that I'm

546

:

a pencil in the hand of some force.

547

:

Far greater than me, I think, I

hope, I don't really know, but

548

:

I think, I know for sure I'm not

God, that's what I know for sure.

549

:

Yeah.

550

:

So, we're all here to learn something

and we just try to make the next

551

:

right decision on a daily basis

and , not self aggrandize beyond that.

552

:

Absolutely.

553

:

Yeah.

554

:

That's a really beautiful way of,

of thinking about it and just a good

555

:

perspective on like, yeah, there can be

this ego piece that can come in for sure.

556

:

I think too, it's our

learned experience, right?

557

:

How we were raised,

how we were brought up.

558

:

If we were in a position, I

think this is my struggle.

559

:

If we've been in a position where.

560

:

We had to kind of hold things together

or be the responsible person or manage

561

:

someone else's emotions, especially a

kid trying to manage adult emotions.

562

:

You can really easily take on that sort

of inner belief, which is completely

563

:

subconscious, that Oh, I'm responsible.

564

:

And if they do something wrong, it's

because it was my fault or if something

565

:

happens bad to them, it would be my

fault or I would somehow be responsible.

566

:

So there's that fear based

origin of that, I think as well.

567

:

Right.

568

:

Absolutely.

569

:

I think it's a tool that children

use because they are literally

570

:

dependent on the, piece.

571

:

of their environment.

572

:

, it makes sense for a child to proactively

manage the emotions of people around

573

:

them because they won't get food

unless somebody puts it on their table.

574

:

Right?

575

:

Yeah, like I'm thinking about

my, , family members that were in

576

:

the foster care system that I mean,

unbelievable stuff, you know, having

577

:

a schizophrenic mother and, Not having

reliable food access, things like that.

578

:

There are things that we

build for ourselves that make

579

:

sense when we're children.

580

:

And then there's a practice that

I have to undergo for myself to,

581

:

realize like you sweet child.

582

:

Thank you.

583

:

Yeah.

584

:

You did such a good job.

585

:

You did such a good job

because you needed that.

586

:

And now we're all grown up and.

587

:

We don't need that tool anymore.

588

:

That was so relevant then.

589

:

Yes.

590

:

And now it's a part of the

Russian doll that I am.

591

:

That's a smaller doll

and that's a memory now.

592

:

And that pain is done.

593

:

I don't have to re experience

that pain because I already

594

:

did it and I did a great job.

595

:

And now my bigger shell, my

almost 40 year old shell here.

596

:

That's what's on the front.

597

:

And I don't need those tools

anymore because I got my own job.

598

:

I got my own house.

599

:

I got my own responsibilities.

600

:

I'm not taking on your shit.

601

:

Yeah.

602

:

I've got my own.

603

:

I'm a grownup now.

604

:

I've got my own stuff.

605

:

So . That skill , can ride in

the back of the bus, not in

606

:

the front of the bus anymore.

607

:

Doesn't necessarily serve us.

608

:

That's right.

609

:

Cause 40 year old me is driving this bus.

610

:

and doesn't that translate into

so many areas of our lives?

611

:

So many, I mean, right now we're talking

about caring for other people, which is.

612

:

What I do for a living and

what I know a lot of people are

613

:

doing for their family members.

614

:

There's a lot of people, , especially

women who are not only caring for their

615

:

children, and trying to maintain careers,

but they then have aging parents or.

616

:

You know, aging family

members or ill family members.

617

:

And I'm going to say this wrong, but I

heard something about, it's like the

618

:

sandwich generation or something.

619

:

They're still responsible for

their children, but they're now

620

:

responsible for their parents.

621

:

, we're all getting punished

for not getting married and

622

:

having children at 20, I guess.

623

:

I don't know, you did it at 20.

624

:

Your mom would be 40 by the time

your kids graduating high school.

625

:

And in just, you know,

a generation and a half.

626

:

My friends are often having kids at 40.

627

:

I had my last kid at 35, so, , if

my parents were still with us, then I

628

:

absolutely would be contending with their

age related issues and my own children's.

629

:

and, , I think something that

I tell my clients that find

630

:

themselves in that situation.

631

:

Well, I mean, first of all,

obviously I want people to

632

:

know that you can hire help.

633

:

Yeah.

634

:

For so many more things than you

might not, than you might imagine.

635

:

I mean, yes, you can hire someone to like

drive your mom to an appointment, but you

636

:

can also hire someone, a medical advocate

to make the appointment to help decide

637

:

what the right appointment is to begin

with, to organize the medical records.

638

:

before the appointment to physically

attend the appointment with your

639

:

mom to help your mother learn how

to use my chart and virtual visit

640

:

options, or just do it for her.

641

:

If that's just not even

worth trying to do.

642

:

So first of all, , you can hire help.

643

:

So it's good for people

to know it's out there.

644

:

That's not an option for everybody though.

645

:

And,, that's the hardest part

about the work that I do and.

646

:

Is that I wish that I was

able to serve more people.

647

:

, but the other thing to remember is that,

you know, what a C is an okay grade.

648

:

You don't have to get an A in everything.

649

:

You don't have to get an A at

every single part of your life.

650

:

My best friend . used

to say, C's get degrees.

651

:

I was more or less an A student.

652

:

She was more or less a C student.

653

:

We'll paint in broad strokes here.

654

:

And you know what?

655

:

She's got a college degree

and I've got a college degree.

656

:

Yeah.

657

:

I was looking at her

transcripts anymore, right?

658

:

Nobody cares.

659

:

Nobody cares.

660

:

Um, like I made myself

physically ill before exams.

661

:

She did not.

662

:

She was watching Sex and the City before

her exams just to totally date myself.

663

:

Okay.

664

:

She did not miss the finale of

Sex and the City when it aired in

665

:

order to try to get an A instead

of an A minus on some biology test.

666

:

Like, she had it right.

667

:

And I think this applies to our

conversation because yeah, it would

668

:

probably go better if These over

functioning women, I'm one of them,

669

:

handled every single part of every

single thing to prevent any ounce of

670

:

pain for all the people in their life.

671

:

Yes, it probably would go better.

672

:

Does it have to?

673

:

first of all, it's not possible.

674

:

Second of all, people deserve to

have their full life experience.

675

:

You can try to pad their pain, but

their soul is here for a reason.

676

:

Yeah.

677

:

You can't be the, Pillow between them

and their experience all the time.

678

:

Right.

679

:

And if something gets done, but

it's a 75 percent instead of a

680

:

95 percent that is damn good.

681

:

Another day in the books.

682

:

Check.

683

:

Moving on.

684

:

Like it does not, it really

doesn't have to be perfect.

685

:

In fact, it can be very, very

imperfect and that's still okay.

686

:

And you and I, in our work together,

we have talked about that sort of

687

:

all or nothing mindset that people

fall into so easily that I'm either

688

:

doing the thing a hundred percent.

689

:

I'm all in or the wheels have fallen off

the bus and I'm completely off the rail.

690

:

That's right.

691

:

That's right.

692

:

How has doing this work changed your

perspective on your own self care and

693

:

health and how you take care of yourself

since that wasn't modeled for you?

694

:

That, oh, that's such a great question.

695

:

Cause just to, continue, honoring

and using my mother's life

696

:

story as a warning, I suppose.

697

:

God bless you, mom.

698

:

So , she passed away and I

was left thinking that my

699

:

destiny was to fill her shoes.

700

:

And oh my God, when she passed away, did

I learn the amount of over functioning

701

:

that she was in the middle of, because

she just passed away right in her sleep.

702

:

She just, whoop, here

one day, gone the next.

703

:

, it was horrifying.

704

:

She was my best friend.

705

:

, and, well, she was

everybody's best friend.

706

:

. I mean, in my little world,

everything stopped that day.

707

:

And it was just a void and grief and

all, all the things you can imagine.

708

:

And then started a journey, so that

was at 23, I started a journey of

709

:

figuring out, first of all, how to

fully function, because my mom did so

710

:

many things for me too, of course, and

then how to maintain this legacy of

711

:

service to other people, empathy, to

trying to right the wrongs of others.

712

:

That we see around us to try

to acknowledge a privilege.

713

:

She didn't have that terminology

because this was so long ago, , but

714

:

she would have, , and how to

survive, because in my opinion, she.

715

:

Knew that first part so well, but she

didn't know how to actually survive

716

:

this life And so the way I have started

to paint how to survive this life was

717

:

first of all from a whole lot of therapy

And what my therapist did with me was

718

:

constantly redirect me to my body.

719

:

Mm hmm over and over and over again

What I had a few therapists Not to brag,

720

:

but I had a few therapists, and , I've

gone to, like, I have a PhD in personal

721

:

therapy and , one therapist told me

they felt something that was gonna be

722

:

really important for me and I think.

723

:

probably important for other empaths

that function codependently like I

724

:

did and have to work to not do today

is to reclaim your own intuition.

725

:

So there's a divorcing that

happens in your gut feeling, right?

726

:

If you feel bad in your body,

especially as a child, and there's

727

:

nothing you can do to right the

situation, there's probably a good

728

:

reason that you feel bad in your body.

729

:

Your body actually talks to you.

730

:

This sounded crazy to me, right?

731

:

Like, I have a master's degree in

biology, like, I, this is, I was not,

732

:

uh, I didn't believe you could speak to

your cells and they would, quote, speak

733

:

back to you when I started this journey.

734

:

However, I have learned.

735

:

That you can, and that it will speak back

to you because when your body feels bad

736

:

and there's nothing you can do to change

it as a adaptive method, as a survival

737

:

method, especially children, you leave.

738

:

Your body, you just leave.

739

:

And if that pattern stays in place, like

it did for me for 25 years, when you

740

:

first are being introduced to the idea

that no, you should be in your body.

741

:

You don't even know that your

body has anything to say.

742

:

You don't even know

what your feelings are.

743

:

I would have panic attacks.

744

:

With no discernible trigger.

745

:

Panic attack as though I'm, you know,

watching someone die right in front of me.

746

:

And I had no idea what initiated it.

747

:

And, I mean, there were

some things to choose from.

748

:

But I had no idea.

749

:

The timeline had no...

750

:

Bearing to my physical experience.

751

:

And so what my therapist did over and

over and over again was say, describe

752

:

the physical sensations inside your body.

753

:

And it, I mean, it took a few years

and I would, and I'm like, what?

754

:

And it felt so ridiculous

and it was so uncomfortable.

755

:

And what I learned to do was, this

is what I, this is what I told my

756

:

friend who just started therapy.

757

:

I told her, you just got to squish in it.

758

:

It's so uncomfortable, but you just gotta

like, it's like you're in wet shoes, you

759

:

know, just wiggle your toes around and

just squish in it for a minute and say

760

:

like, what is going on inside my body?

761

:

And that was the first step.

762

:

Toward that work seems so simple

and like silly and I didn't even

763

:

know what I was doing But I started

to say like, well, I guess I feel

764

:

tightness in the upper left side of

my chest But not like a heart attack.

765

:

I mean, I'm not sick I mean, I don't

need attention like I don't need

766

:

anything but you know, all these things.

767

:

It's not a big deal Yeah,

it's not a big deal.

768

:

And then eventually, you

know six months later.

769

:

I'm saying like I think I see purple

Running in a line down my left arm,

770

:

and that was a, that was an exercise

that eventually got me to the point

771

:

where someone would say something to

me, and I would just know that the

772

:

answer to what they were asking was no.

773

:

It came from deep within me.

774

:

Do you want to, um, stop by

and get this food before we

775

:

go pick up our other friend?

776

:

From deep within me, I would

say, no, I don't want to do that.

777

:

I would really like to go get these people

picked up because I need to get to bed.

778

:

Yeah.

779

:

So To answer your question in a

very big way, that was the journey.

780

:

That was the beginning step.

781

:

That was the initial,

, direction of the ship.

782

:

And then , it has blossomed

from there to being able to have

783

:

employees, to fire employees kindly.

784

:

Sure.

785

:

Because that's who I am.

786

:

I mean, that's a gift.

787

:

I mean, I was born caring,

compassionate person.

788

:

I was born caring deeply.

789

:

I've learned that's not the

part I have to try to be.

790

:

Right.

791

:

I have to work on that.

792

:

What I got to try to do is live

this life because if you're a highly

793

:

sensitive person like I am, like, Okay.

794

:

It's a jungle out there.

795

:

Yeah.

796

:

You got to live this life and you got

to survive this life and you're going to

797

:

have all the answers and it's not going

to make perfect sense and you can't be

798

:

the solution to every single problem.

799

:

You won't survive.

800

:

You actually won't survive.

801

:

people with deep, almost crippling

empathy will, will understand everything

802

:

that you and I are saying, Jeannie,

because, Yeah, you got to be able

803

:

to keep taking another step forward.

804

:

I think another term that we can use for,

maybe not exactly the same thing, but

805

:

something similar, is people pleasing.

806

:

Oh, for sure.

807

:

You know, people that are, you

know, die hard people pleasers.

808

:

I see so many people pleasers in

my practice, and it's no mystery.

809

:

That I see them in their late

thirties, usually at the earliest

810

:

to late forties, and they've been

people pleasing all their lives.

811

:

And suddenly they reach a point

where they're like, I feel horrible.

812

:

Now I've got my own health challenges.

813

:

I've ignored my own needs for

decades with this idea that I would

814

:

be happy and fulfilled and okay.

815

:

If everyone else is happy

and fulfilled and okay.

816

:

And actually it does not.

817

:

Work like that.

818

:

It just doesn't work like that.

819

:

and you, you mentioned something earlier,

when we were talking that, , compassion

820

:

and empathy are very different things.

821

:

Yes, absolutely.

822

:

And we can be compassionate.

823

:

We can be kind.

824

:

Yep.

825

:

But we can also say this doesn't

work for me, or this does.

826

:

And the piece about really getting

in touch with our bodies is so huge.

827

:

Last season I had, or first season,

my first season, I had Nicole Field

828

:

on one of the shows, and she does

somatic stress release therapy.

829

:

That is such incredible work.

830

:

And I've done this with

my own therapist too.

831

:

And actually the therapist I see

now is the first person I've seen

832

:

who does those somatic uses those

somatic modalities where you're

833

:

really getting into your body.

834

:

And, you know, I've mentioned the book

where, um, the body keeps the score.

835

:

I've mentioned that in previous episodes

and it's so profound because we didn't

836

:

really have a deep understanding.

837

:

I don't think of that

until quite recently.

838

:

And.

839

:

it is really tough when you've sort

of disassociated from your body for so

840

:

long to really get back in and go, okay,

where am I feeling this like emotion?

841

:

Like, where is this living?

842

:

If I'm talking about a certain

experience or person or something

843

:

and I'm suddenly bursting into like,

where is that living in my physical

844

:

body and trying to identify that?

845

:

Yeah.

846

:

And then release it, you know, um, it

is not easy, especially for those of us

847

:

who tend to really be up in our heads.

848

:

But once.

849

:

I was able to start practicing that more.

850

:

It does get easier.

851

:

Yes.

852

:

So those of you who haven't done that

and want to, yeah, it's just sticky

853

:

and uncomfortable at first and squishy.

854

:

You got it.

855

:

Yeah.

856

:

Yeah.

857

:

But it gets easier and man, it's

amazing because it gets quicker.

858

:

able to identify that much more

rapidly and readily and say,

859

:

no, that doesn't work for me.

860

:

Yep.

861

:

Here's an alternative.

862

:

Absolutely.

863

:

, and often I find too, when we're

really true to ourselves, if something

864

:

doesn't work for us, it often doesn't

work for everybody else either.

865

:

Especially people that

are highly empathetic.

866

:

Sometimes you're picking up on something

that's much bigger than you too.

867

:

That's a good point.

868

:

And , I think people that are very

empathetic, people pleasing, I

869

:

think they can be wonderful leaders

actually, because they come at it.

870

:

So yes, I'm just, I'm just absolutely

underlining everything you're saying.

871

:

I, I want people to know that if,

if you're, if you found yourself

872

:

in a situation like I did,

you can experience direct joy.

873

:

you aren't, relegated to only experience

vicarious joy from creating some temporary

874

:

peace in the people around you, you know?

875

:

And Oh, I had to go back Oh, the

thera Oh, the therapy genies.

876

:

, I was in the therapy, okay?

877

:

, and another therapist had me go back

to, remembering my earliest memories

878

:

of direct joy, because anytime I

described happiness, it was very

879

:

social and relational and that's me.

880

:

And that's.

881

:

Good.

882

:

But it was because I had accomplished

something else for someone else.

883

:

My mom talked about some

of her happiest moments.

884

:

It would be seeing that child's

face who received a letter from an

885

:

owl from the Harry Potter universe.

886

:

That was her happiest memory.

887

:

And that is beautiful.

888

:

But that's not actually hers.

889

:

Like, what, what direct joy did

you experience in your body?

890

:

Like, what sunlight did you

feel on your own face, right?

891

:

And that was just so interesting.

892

:

And so interestingly, some of

the only direct joy memories I

893

:

could remember, it was all food.

894

:

Yeah.

895

:

Isn't that interesting?

896

:

Absolutely.

897

:

Isn't that interesting, right?

898

:

Absolutely.

899

:

Yeah, we're not alone in that.

900

:

It is so common because honestly, we

live in this society that says women

901

:

should be everything to everyone.

902

:

They should be high performing.

903

:

That's right.

904

:

All the things.

905

:

That's right.

906

:

A hot mother, Teresa.

907

:

Oh yeah.

908

:

There you go.

909

:

All the things I've talked

about ad nauseum on this show.

910

:

And then I talk about with

my clients constantly, but

911

:

you know, we can't do that.

912

:

And we've Sort of taken on this idea

that it's not okay to have our own dreams

913

:

desires and personal joys like it's

like if you're not kind of constant

914

:

sacrifice or You know if something is

just beneficial to you, right or it's not

915

:

okay to want to make good money, right?

916

:

You know, right.

917

:

It's not okay.

918

:

I mean like there's just this Negative

stigma that I don't see existing for men.

919

:

Yeah.

920

:

I think their journey , is

a totally different place.

921

:

It is for me anyway.

922

:

I identify so strongly with a lot

of classically feminine experiences.

923

:

, it is so interesting, not that

men, of course they have their

924

:

own challenges, of course.

925

:

But I just think that it's, they,

that's not one, common, I think,

926

:

challenge or expectation that I see.

927

:

Yeah.

928

:

Yeah.

929

:

If I'm going to pretend to be

an anthropologist, which I am

930

:

not, I think it's interesting

that for a hundred thousand years.

931

:

Women's physical survival depended upon

endearing oneself to those who were

932

:

larger and more physically capable.

933

:

Right?

934

:

I mean, the child skills,, it's

really, they weren't going to get

935

:

food unless the people who did the

hunting and were physically capable

936

:

Killing a baboon or whatever,

brought it back and gave it to them.

937

:

So what we're trying to do in this

generation is, I mean, I have a

938

:

lot , of respect for how human

beings have gotten to this point.

939

:

You know, and I don't, I don't know that

it helps me anyway to think, to label

940

:

things as good or bad that live within me

because I think they live within my cells.

941

:

Like they live within my DNA.

942

:

My DNA somehow made it to 2023.

943

:

God bless it.

944

:

That's my freaking journey.

945

:

This body, which I think of as

like a gorilla, the sweet gorilla

946

:

that my soul drives around.

947

:

Like, , our brains have gone to this whole

other non physical place in modern life.

948

:

But I'm still driving around essentially

like a, you know, like a Model T Ford,

949

:

like a little gorilla, evolutionarily.

950

:

And what's inside my cells was very,

very important for a far longer

951

:

period of time than, than the decades

of this technological age, right?

952

:

Like I don't, I don't need,

generally speaking, I don't need

953

:

my husband to, protect me from

being, physically hurt in general.

954

:

Right.

955

:

In general.

956

:

I'll speak for my own life.

957

:

I don't, I have not had that

issue come up in my own life.

958

:

And yet my cells, I want to, I want

to endear myself to him because I

959

:

believe somehow that will happen.

960

:

Well, it's just our

evolutionary prerogative, right?

961

:

And that brings me back to, you know, the

whole piece with the food, because we're

962

:

so stretched thin, we're so exhausted.

963

:

And this is another thing I've

talked about multiple times, but I

964

:

don't think it can be overstated.

965

:

Of course we're finding joy.

966

:

Food is naturally going to be a

source of joy and that's built into us

967

:

because that motivates us to eat food

because we will stay alive and survive.

968

:

That's right.

969

:

And when we don't have many

sources of joy in our life and

970

:

fulfillment, that's truly ours.

971

:

Yeah.

972

:

That moment that we sit down

with the tub of ice cream.

973

:

Right.

974

:

Right.

975

:

That may be it.

976

:

Right.

977

:

So why wouldn't you, why wouldn't your

brain say, give me the fucking ice cream?

978

:

The Kraft macaroni and

cheese, if you're meaning.

979

:

Exactly.

980

:

Whatever that might, yeah,

or the bag of salty chips.

981

:

That's great.

982

:

I mean, whatever it is that's going

to give you that dopamine hit,

983

:

that feeling of like momentary

happiness, joy, fulfillment, whatever.

984

:

Like aren't I good?

985

:

Yeah, right.

986

:

My, my best friend, God bless her,

ended up with gestational diabetes

987

:

and she had to give up sugar and

she is the most straight arrow.

988

:

Like she's never done a

thing wrong in her life.

989

:

I'm not the same, but this is her.

990

:

She's never done a

thing wrong in her life.

991

:

I'm telling you, she's just.

992

:

You know, she took her contacts out

every night, she washed her face at 8.

993

:

30pm, she took her birth control

at 9pm every single night, like,

994

:

she'd have half of one drink

and then drive everybody home.

995

:

I mean, she's just a good girl, period.

996

:

And, dairy Queen soft serve ice

cream is what she, it's her thing.

997

:

And then she ended up with gestational

diabetes in pregnancy and I remember

998

:

talking to her and she was...

999

:

Sobbing.

:

00:51:19,958 --> 00:51:22,148

And, it's so exactly this conversation.

:

00:51:22,168 --> 00:51:23,093

Cause she said like.

:

00:51:23,703 --> 00:51:25,183

It's my one thing.

:

00:51:25,393 --> 00:51:27,143

Like, aren't I good?

:

00:51:27,473 --> 00:51:28,623

Like, aren't I good?

:

00:51:28,663 --> 00:51:33,043

Don't I, you know, and serve the one thing

and I couldn't, I mean, I didn't have

:

00:51:33,043 --> 00:51:37,723

any answers and that idea of deserving

and I want to, I think that really.

:

00:51:38,478 --> 00:51:43,188

It ties into the work that you do,

because I think as people who do love

:

00:51:43,958 --> 00:51:48,023

whoever we're caregiving for, you

know, , you deserve to have help.

:

00:51:48,063 --> 00:51:54,287

You deserve to have your own life

in the context of someone else, be

:

00:51:54,287 --> 00:51:59,567

it your parent or child or whoever

loved one that's dealing with.

:

00:51:59,657 --> 00:52:00,813

Health problems.

:

00:52:00,933 --> 00:52:04,233

Yeah, and I think we often don't feel

like we deserve to have the help.

:

00:52:04,793 --> 00:52:09,537

Oh, we feel guilty for wanting help

sure, and That we've got we've got

:

00:52:09,537 --> 00:52:13,927

to release that we have to understand

like we are deserving of that joy.

:

00:52:13,927 --> 00:52:19,117

Yeah Self care and rest

like true real rest.

:

00:52:19,197 --> 00:52:19,677

Oh, yeah.

:

00:52:19,977 --> 00:52:20,517

Oh, yeah.

:

00:52:20,927 --> 00:52:21,847

I have a client right now.

:

00:52:21,847 --> 00:52:28,317

You're making me think of that the

daughter Actually hired me to help her

:

00:52:28,367 --> 00:52:34,387

dad take care of her brother Hmm if

you're still with me, but so I get a front

:

00:52:34,387 --> 00:52:39,167

row seat to some of the most Beautiful

gifts that families give each other.

:

00:52:39,507 --> 00:52:41,697

And sometimes I am that gift.

:

00:52:42,777 --> 00:52:46,877

So the daughter, , found

me online and hired me.

:

00:52:46,927 --> 00:52:50,657

And the dad at first, she said,

, this might be, my dad has agreed

:

00:52:50,667 --> 00:52:53,137

reluctantly to have your services.

:

00:52:53,147 --> 00:52:56,657

But she told me, I want you to keep

in mind that this is a huge source

:

00:52:56,657 --> 00:53:01,417

of self esteem for my dad, that he

takes care of my brother who has

:

00:53:01,417 --> 00:53:02,557

all these chronic health issues.

:

00:53:02,590 --> 00:53:04,190

And I appreciated that.

:

00:53:04,190 --> 00:53:04,350

Next.

:

00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:13,176

and over time I've partnered with her dad

and , I am his boots on the ground and he

:

00:53:13,186 --> 00:53:18,246

is in charge and he is still taking care

of his son because I don't know his son.

:

00:53:18,256 --> 00:53:23,546

The relationship is between them, but the

greatest compliment my business can get

:

00:53:23,756 --> 00:53:30,300

and that we received was that He told me

that he feels like his son's dad again.

:

00:53:30,550 --> 00:53:31,100

Oh, yeah.

:

00:53:31,310 --> 00:53:32,480

I just got , the head tingles.

:

00:53:32,540 --> 00:53:37,180

It was so sweet because , he said, I

forgot what it felt like to be his dad

:

00:53:37,220 --> 00:53:41,740

because he was physically cleaning him

up after having bathroom accidents.

:

00:53:41,750 --> 00:53:43,320

I mean, he was all these things, right?

:

00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,460

And so now we have these systems in

place and we do things and he knows what

:

00:53:46,460 --> 00:53:48,010

things he can just send to Sarah Jane.

:

00:53:48,570 --> 00:53:51,030

Because his job is to be his son's dad.

:

00:53:51,090 --> 00:53:51,390

Yeah.

:

00:53:51,430 --> 00:53:51,760

That's it.

:

00:53:51,790 --> 00:53:54,730

That's his job, and we go to

the appointments together, but

:

00:53:54,730 --> 00:53:57,660

he just gets to show up to the

appointment to support his son.

:

00:53:58,100 --> 00:54:00,110

I'm, I've got the agenda.

:

00:54:00,510 --> 00:54:03,920

I made sure that doctor

read his records before.

:

00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,570

The appointment, I made sure that

his dignity was protected when he

:

00:54:07,570 --> 00:54:11,040

needed a rectal exam, you know, like

I was like, Nope, we leave now, you

:

00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,220

know, so he just got to be his dad.

:

00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,280

And, , I love doing that for people.

:

00:54:16,150 --> 00:54:16,470

Yeah.

:

00:54:16,470 --> 00:54:17,310

That's incredible.

:

00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:18,460

That really is a gift.

:

00:54:18,540 --> 00:54:18,890

Yeah.

:

00:54:19,250 --> 00:54:19,330

Yeah.

:

00:54:19,330 --> 00:54:21,340

It really is a gift because

that relationship would shift.

:

00:54:21,410 --> 00:54:27,470

So, so much when you're now the full

time caregiver and, oh gosh, you know.

:

00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:28,310

Oh yeah.

:

00:54:28,450 --> 00:54:31,000

And then, and then you start to

feel, I heard a quote that I really

:

00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,990

liked that said, choose guilt

over resentment every single time.

:

00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:36,190

Oh, I like that.

:

00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:41,185

It's so bold that , the codependent

inside me was like, You know, when I

:

00:54:41,185 --> 00:54:48,605

first heard that, but resentment is the,

the leading emotion that, um, uh, is

:

00:54:48,605 --> 00:54:50,555

recognized in research about divorce.

:

00:54:50,605 --> 00:54:55,148

For example, when you just

like , you think of them and.

:

00:54:55,668 --> 00:54:59,388

You're leading emotion is

everything I've done for you.

:

00:55:01,268 --> 00:55:01,298

Right.

:

00:55:01,408 --> 00:55:01,888

Yeah.

:

00:55:01,958 --> 00:55:04,758

And so , this kind of bold

idea, choose guilt over

:

00:55:04,758 --> 00:55:06,088

resentment, whatever that means.

:

00:55:06,098 --> 00:55:06,908

Every once in a while.

:

00:55:07,308 --> 00:55:11,388

I remember that if I want to take an

extra 30 minutes before I come home

:

00:55:11,388 --> 00:55:14,431

to the kids or whatever, because they

don't want me to feel resentful to them.

:

00:55:14,431 --> 00:55:14,651

Right.

:

00:55:14,691 --> 00:55:15,761

So where I can.

:

00:55:15,951 --> 00:55:16,291

Yeah.

:

00:55:16,341 --> 00:55:16,691

Yeah.

:

00:55:17,011 --> 00:55:17,371

Yeah.

:

00:55:17,911 --> 00:55:20,631

So how has that changed for you as far as.

:

00:55:21,691 --> 00:55:29,051

The way that you practice self care now

and sort of protect your own energy now

:

00:55:29,061 --> 00:55:31,771

in this current, place in your life.

:

00:55:31,821 --> 00:55:32,241

Yeah.

:

00:55:32,401 --> 00:55:36,541

Comparatively to when you were

working within the medical system.

:

00:55:36,711 --> 00:55:37,011

Yes.

:

00:55:37,021 --> 00:55:37,891

Like in it.

:

00:55:38,091 --> 00:55:38,651

Yes.

:

00:55:39,441 --> 00:55:41,621

around and outside of it or with it.

:

00:55:42,201 --> 00:55:42,721

Yes.

:

00:55:42,771 --> 00:55:44,151

Well, gosh.

:

00:55:44,921 --> 00:55:51,841

So another therapist gave me this

wonderful practice where, , I have rocks

:

00:55:52,051 --> 00:55:59,241

that represent each of my clients and And

there I have kind of, , practices like

:

00:55:59,241 --> 00:56:01,181

little spiritual traditions that I do.

:

00:56:01,211 --> 00:56:04,161

And so when there's, they have

these, I sound crazy, but I have

:

00:56:04,211 --> 00:56:08,041

these little rocks and I know their

names and they're my client's names.

:

00:56:08,261 --> 00:56:11,661

Or they could also be, , there's

a rock for my child.

:

00:56:11,661 --> 00:56:14,991

There's a rock for my husband, like

they're actual rocks that I found.

:

00:56:15,001 --> 00:56:16,591

I live in West Seattle,

like out on the beach.

:

00:56:16,591 --> 00:56:16,841

Right.

:

00:56:17,311 --> 00:56:18,091

And.

:

00:56:18,406 --> 00:56:23,366

And when I am looping about something,

when I'm worrying about something, when

:

00:56:23,366 --> 00:56:27,426

I want to do more and more and more,

but my body, I know my body is tired.

:

00:56:27,436 --> 00:56:28,666

I know my brain is just.

:

00:56:28,896 --> 00:56:34,916

Zinging, then I pick up their rock

and I will hold it in my hand.

:

00:56:35,246 --> 00:56:37,986

And , I have a little vase

that I got at Goodwill.

:

00:56:38,366 --> 00:56:41,776

, that is who I give to

God, what I call God.

:

00:56:41,896 --> 00:56:42,266

Right.

:

00:56:42,406 --> 00:56:45,116

And, and I hold it in

my hand and I, and I.

:

00:56:45,486 --> 00:56:50,106

I, I find my higher self,

like that deep, endless amount

:

00:56:50,106 --> 00:56:51,936

of empathy that God gave me.

:

00:56:51,966 --> 00:56:54,276

And I know it's endless

because it's not me.

:

00:56:54,336 --> 00:56:55,146

'cause I'm mortal.

:

00:56:55,176 --> 00:56:55,236

Yeah.

:

00:56:55,236 --> 00:56:58,536

It comes from much, it's a spiritual,

it comes from the ocean, it comes

:

00:56:58,541 --> 00:56:59,736

from this whole other place.

:

00:57:00,346 --> 00:57:02,086

And I go there and my mind and.

:

00:57:02,276 --> 00:57:03,686

Hold that rock and I squeeze it.

:

00:57:03,686 --> 00:57:06,056

And , I hold it and I say, I pray it.

:

00:57:06,056 --> 00:57:09,156

And I say, I want this, like my son,

for example, like that's so easy.

:

00:57:09,156 --> 00:57:09,386

Right.

:

00:57:09,386 --> 00:57:10,996

But I'm just like, please let him be safe.

:

00:57:11,006 --> 00:57:12,246

Like, please let him be safe.

:

00:57:12,696 --> 00:57:15,026

Please let this issue not be a problem.

:

00:57:15,036 --> 00:57:16,536

Please let him have

friends, all those things.

:

00:57:16,966 --> 00:57:20,676

And then I let it build

to a fervor and then.

:

00:57:21,096 --> 00:57:23,776

I remind myself that I'm just a mortal.

:

00:57:24,026 --> 00:57:28,396

I'm just a soul driving around this sweet

little gorilla and I can't do everything.

:

00:57:28,476 --> 00:57:30,006

And then I say, you got it.

:

00:57:30,076 --> 00:57:31,206

You got to have him God.

:

00:57:31,796 --> 00:57:35,943

And then I put him in this

other vase and he's there.

:

00:57:35,963 --> 00:57:41,623

So I do rituals like that to

close my time blocked Work day.

:

00:57:42,173 --> 00:57:44,273

I also have a different

cell phone for work.

:

00:57:44,323 --> 00:57:48,633

That's a very practical reason and

sometimes I hear that phone ringing in the

:

00:57:48,633 --> 00:57:51,783

other room and It's a it's a discipline.

:

00:57:51,903 --> 00:57:55,323

Yeah, someone is probably could

be in the hospital, right?

:

00:57:55,343 --> 00:57:58,193

But I my clients know when I'm

available and when I'm not available

:

00:57:58,223 --> 00:58:01,493

and sometimes I am available for people

that are gonna be in The hospital,

:

00:58:01,493 --> 00:58:02,833

but they will know if I'm available.

:

00:58:02,833 --> 00:58:06,563

In the hospital when I was working before,

before I had done all of this work, I

:

00:58:06,563 --> 00:58:08,193

took everything home with me all the time.

:

00:58:08,383 --> 00:58:12,113

I carried, I carried these people

around with me, people that passed

:

00:58:12,113 --> 00:58:13,493

away while I was on my shift.

:

00:58:13,493 --> 00:58:15,393

Like I carry their souls in my car.

:

00:58:15,823 --> 00:58:18,913

Like I took dead people with me home.

:

00:58:19,363 --> 00:58:20,103

You can't do that.

:

00:58:20,263 --> 00:58:21,283

No, no.

:

00:58:21,473 --> 00:58:25,463

They have their own life exactly

wherever they went, you Yeah.

:

00:58:26,650 --> 00:58:26,670

Yeah.

:

00:58:26,755 --> 00:58:31,065

I feel like we could talk so, there's

so many layers to all of this, but I

:

00:58:31,075 --> 00:58:36,440

would love to know, , what advice do

you have for those of us that have aging

:

00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:43,733

parents and, maybe on the cusp or in

the midst of this caregiving place?

:

00:58:44,096 --> 00:58:44,596

Yes.

:

00:58:44,816 --> 00:58:46,336

So we talked.

:

00:58:46,696 --> 00:58:50,106

A lot about the importance, the

difference between empathy and compassion.

:

00:58:50,116 --> 00:58:53,926

I'll, I'll touch it one more time

and then give a few practical ideas.

:

00:58:54,256 --> 00:58:57,996

But, um, empathy is literally

feeling what another person

:

00:58:57,996 --> 00:58:59,306

is feeling inside their body.

:

00:58:59,866 --> 00:59:04,746

So you, you know, that, Ooh, that

wince, that like, Oh, cringe feeling.

:

00:59:05,506 --> 00:59:09,911

Compassion is knowing that it's

occurring , and acknowledging it , and

:

00:59:09,911 --> 00:59:11,431

wanting to take action to be of help.

:

00:59:11,481 --> 00:59:12,061

You don't have to.

:

00:59:12,521 --> 00:59:16,291

necessarily through practice, you

can not literally experience the

:

00:59:16,291 --> 00:59:18,261

pain that people are experiencing.

:

00:59:18,261 --> 00:59:18,441

Yeah.

:

00:59:19,081 --> 00:59:20,131

And so that's one step.

:

00:59:20,451 --> 00:59:25,571

And to investigate practices to, you

know, cord cut is a helpful meditation

:

00:59:25,571 --> 00:59:28,721

practice and some other things to

not physically experience it with

:

00:59:28,721 --> 00:59:31,231

them, because then you're no, you're

not helpful to them because your

:

00:59:31,591 --> 00:59:34,271

energy is now being poured into pain.

:

00:59:34,911 --> 00:59:36,551

Um, and they've got the pain covered.

:

00:59:36,561 --> 00:59:38,101

They're check, check it off.

:

00:59:38,151 --> 00:59:38,561

They did it.

:

00:59:39,496 --> 00:59:39,756

Okay.

:

00:59:39,796 --> 00:59:41,816

And then I'll jump into

some practical tips.

:

00:59:41,856 --> 00:59:46,286

Um, of course, as I've said, you can

hire someone to help you can delegate.

:

00:59:46,716 --> 00:59:49,416

Um, you might delegate to

a hired person like me.

:

00:59:49,426 --> 00:59:51,376

You might delegate to

other family members.

:

00:59:51,846 --> 00:59:57,616

You might have a brother or sister

that is aloof in the situation.

:

00:59:58,226 --> 01:00:04,786

And in you could find out like what

is their gift in life and how does it

:

01:00:04,826 --> 01:00:09,626

intersect with the need and give them

that one piece because the whole thing

:

01:00:09,736 --> 01:00:14,016

is too big for any one person including

you if you're listening in this.

:

01:00:14,386 --> 01:00:15,136

resonates with you.

:

01:00:15,136 --> 01:00:16,006

It's too big for you, too.

:

01:00:16,466 --> 01:00:20,316

So if there's something that person

is good at and you can try to help

:

01:00:20,316 --> 01:00:23,836

them with that one piece, you might

be amazed at how that can really

:

01:00:23,836 --> 01:00:25,546

build a sense of community and esteem.

:

01:00:25,816 --> 01:00:28,786

Because I also delegate to family

members and stuff too, depending on

:

01:00:28,786 --> 01:00:30,066

the dynamics and what people want.

:

01:00:30,416 --> 01:00:33,086

Another thing is to keep a

timeline of medical events.

:

01:00:33,661 --> 01:00:37,101

It, the first time mom goes to the

hospital, it's feels so sentinel

:

01:00:37,161 --> 01:00:39,171

that you think you'll never forget.

:

01:00:39,301 --> 01:00:39,661

Right.

:

01:00:39,671 --> 01:00:40,681

You will forget.

:

01:00:40,681 --> 01:00:40,971

Forget.

:

01:00:40,981 --> 01:00:42,121

You will actually totally.

:

01:00:42,121 --> 01:00:43,021

Especially in a state of stress.

:

01:00:43,181 --> 01:00:43,461

Yeah.

:

01:00:43,471 --> 01:00:44,251

Totally forget.

:

01:00:44,551 --> 01:00:46,421

If there's a doctor you

really connect with.

:

01:00:46,846 --> 01:00:47,976

Write their name down.

:

01:00:48,076 --> 01:00:50,266

It sounds trite, but you, it

might be hard to find them again.

:

01:00:50,266 --> 01:00:54,706

They might go to a different practice,

major scans, like an MRI that shows a

:

01:00:54,706 --> 01:01:00,746

tumor, you request a physical copy of

that MRI and start to maintain the

:

01:01:00,746 --> 01:01:02,776

big pieces of your own medical record.

:

01:01:02,776 --> 01:01:05,056

You can retain your own

pieces of that medical record.

:

01:01:05,086 --> 01:01:08,256

It can be enormously helpful in

coordinating care down the line.

:

01:01:08,826 --> 01:01:11,766

Uh, doctors speak with

a ton of confidence.

:

01:01:11,978 --> 01:01:14,808

They are confident in what

they're saying, but they don't

:

01:01:14,818 --> 01:01:16,508

know you as well as you know you.

:

01:01:16,818 --> 01:01:19,188

They don't know your mom as

well as you know your mom.

:

01:01:19,208 --> 01:01:24,028

They see one part of the elephant and

they're speaking with great confidence.

:

01:01:24,081 --> 01:01:27,158

If every piece of data they

have is accurate, number one.

:

01:01:27,188 --> 01:01:31,408

And number two, if they have a

complete database of information

:

01:01:31,408 --> 01:01:34,458

to be speaking from, then that's

probably a very helpful opinion.

:

01:01:34,525 --> 01:01:36,355

Rarely do they have...

:

01:01:36,436 --> 01:01:40,926

Wholly accurate or wholly

complete data from which to opine.

:

01:01:41,176 --> 01:01:46,913

Remember that your intuition and your

family member's intuition is far more

:

01:01:46,913 --> 01:01:50,723

important than any other person's

opinion, regardless of how bright they

:

01:01:50,723 --> 01:01:51,923

are, how long they went to school.

:

01:01:52,403 --> 01:01:54,863

Lastly, be creative.

:

01:01:55,363 --> 01:02:01,983

And be , very open of whatever your

parents say defines their quality of life.

:

01:02:02,003 --> 01:02:04,913

Be very open to what matters to them.

:

01:02:05,383 --> 01:02:08,883

So, for example, I have, the

same, I keep talking about my

:

01:02:08,883 --> 01:02:09,873

best friend, my same friend.

:

01:02:10,363 --> 01:02:11,463

So she has...

:

01:02:11,813 --> 01:02:17,153

a dad that has early onset dementia,

and his life was about hanging

:

01:02:17,153 --> 01:02:19,013

out at the bar with his friends.

:

01:02:19,313 --> 01:02:24,683

Now, with his laundry list of illnesses,

should he be drinking beer every day?

:

01:02:24,713 --> 01:02:24,893

No.

:

01:02:24,913 --> 01:02:25,423

Probably not.

:

01:02:25,663 --> 01:02:26,023

No.

:

01:02:26,153 --> 01:02:27,063

No, he really shouldn't.

:

01:02:27,093 --> 01:02:27,243

Yeah.

:

01:02:27,473 --> 01:02:30,763

But they've made that a

key part of his care plan.

:

01:02:31,753 --> 01:02:36,833

And she is in the blessed position

to pay for his bar tab down the

:

01:02:36,833 --> 01:02:38,643

street from his nursing home.

:

01:02:38,753 --> 01:02:43,563

And that is just one example of

a way that she has allowed his...

:

01:02:44,098 --> 01:02:47,345

Definition of quality of

life to lead his care.

:

01:02:47,435 --> 01:02:48,735

And that can be really hard.

:

01:02:48,935 --> 01:02:50,455

Oh, that can be so hard.

:

01:02:50,675 --> 01:02:56,225

I've got some personal experience

with that, with family that knowing

:

01:02:56,225 --> 01:02:57,825

what I know, I could help them.

:

01:02:57,918 --> 01:02:58,488

They don't want it.

:

01:02:58,518 --> 01:02:59,088

They don't want it.

:

01:02:59,458 --> 01:03:02,238

They want to have Coke and ice cream.

:

01:03:02,468 --> 01:03:03,018

That's right.

:

01:03:03,418 --> 01:03:04,048

And.

:

01:03:04,298 --> 01:03:08,498

They don't really have any interest in

reversing diabetes or anything like that.

:

01:03:08,548 --> 01:03:09,618

And it's not up to me.

:

01:03:09,848 --> 01:03:11,388

It's not, it's just not up to me.

:

01:03:11,438 --> 01:03:14,118

And I had to really step

back and go, guess what?

:

01:03:15,018 --> 01:03:15,878

Not your job.

:

01:03:16,428 --> 01:03:17,378

It's their life.

:

01:03:17,478 --> 01:03:20,298

If this is what gives them a

little joy in the day, like,

:

01:03:20,318 --> 01:03:21,538

and that's what they choose.

:

01:03:21,768 --> 01:03:22,188

Okay.

:

01:03:22,438 --> 01:03:22,798

Great.

:

01:03:22,798 --> 01:03:23,368

Let it go.

:

01:03:23,908 --> 01:03:27,028

And it was really difficult, really

difficult because it's like, Oh,

:

01:03:27,198 --> 01:03:30,338

I know all the things that could

actually fix this and right.

:

01:03:30,348 --> 01:03:32,928

And again, it's that ego

that comes into play.

:

01:03:32,958 --> 01:03:34,438

So anyway, that's just an aside.

:

01:03:34,438 --> 01:03:35,488

I want to waste more time on that.

:

01:03:35,928 --> 01:03:40,018

Um, those are really,

really excellent tips.

:

01:03:40,308 --> 01:03:43,468

And I think too, you know, if

the piece about listening to your

:

01:03:43,468 --> 01:03:46,788

intuition and your gut feeling, I

think if you're so exhausted and

:

01:03:46,788 --> 01:03:50,568

depleted from giving of yourself,

it's really hard to hear that voice.

:

01:03:50,778 --> 01:03:51,428

Oh my gosh.

:

01:03:51,428 --> 01:03:51,498

Yes.

:

01:03:52,013 --> 01:03:55,643

And to connect with that intuition because

you're just, you don't know what sphere,

:

01:03:55,643 --> 01:04:01,143

what's anxiety, what's intuition, what's

that still small voice, so to speak.

:

01:04:01,173 --> 01:04:03,923

Like, And what is just fear, right?

:

01:04:03,933 --> 01:04:06,133

It's so hard to distinguish

and differentiate.

:

01:04:06,173 --> 01:04:09,923

And so that's another piece that I

encourage you if you're listening and

:

01:04:09,923 --> 01:04:13,903

going through these things, like the self

care is so crucial because yes, it's for

:

01:04:13,903 --> 01:04:16,643

you, but it is also for everyone else too.

:

01:04:16,906 --> 01:04:21,606

And you know, if you've got nothing

left, then , it's not helpful.

:

01:04:21,786 --> 01:04:25,566

And if you start, hating

everyone around you that your

:

01:04:25,636 --> 01:04:27,606

ultimate goal is to care for.

:

01:04:27,856 --> 01:04:29,576

I mean, it's that resentment piece.

:

01:04:29,586 --> 01:04:32,016

Like that is a, that's a later sign.

:

01:04:32,026 --> 01:04:33,526

The resentment is a later sign.

:

01:04:33,526 --> 01:04:37,163

If you're at that place

already, , it's time to really

:

01:04:37,203 --> 01:04:39,973

think about what you aren't getting.

:

01:04:40,223 --> 01:04:40,743

For sure.

:

01:04:40,753 --> 01:04:44,173

And that brings me to the next

topic that I wanted to touch on.

:

01:04:44,275 --> 01:04:48,825

Which is, you know, what in everything

that you've seen throughout your

:

01:04:48,825 --> 01:04:52,938

career and in your work now, what

do you think are the most crucial

:

01:04:52,978 --> 01:04:57,471

preparations or precautions that we can

take to set ourselves up for better?

:

01:04:57,521 --> 01:04:59,921

You know late life or

possibly long term care.

:

01:05:00,141 --> 01:05:00,651

Oh my gosh.

:

01:05:00,661 --> 01:05:02,101

This is This is so good.

:

01:05:02,111 --> 01:05:06,911

So after spending, you know,

almost two decades in healthcare,

:

01:05:07,091 --> 01:05:08,501

not almost two decades, actually.

:

01:05:08,511 --> 01:05:08,531

Wow.

:

01:05:08,571 --> 01:05:12,971

It has been 20 years that I've worked

in intense healthcare settings.

:

01:05:13,085 --> 01:05:16,365

The first thing you can

try to do is stay away.

:

01:05:18,890 --> 01:05:20,830

From traditional American health care.

:

01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:21,380

Oh boy.

:

01:05:21,420 --> 01:05:26,010

Um, and you know, and I say that to be

funny, I mean, I have deep respect and

:

01:05:26,020 --> 01:05:30,850

gratitude and you know, all the rest for

all the people and all of the systems that

:

01:05:30,930 --> 01:05:34,720

us smart human beings have created and

published and all these things, right?

:

01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:40,190

Truly if it's something very

minor, if it could be fixed with

:

01:05:40,190 --> 01:05:46,510

anything besides a pharmaceutical

Intervention, try that first.

:

01:05:46,740 --> 01:05:50,080

I have no judgment about

pharmaceutical interventions.

:

01:05:50,110 --> 01:05:53,500

I personally use pharmaceutical

interventions for my mental health.

:

01:05:53,510 --> 01:05:59,150

For example, it is, it is that you want

to make sure that there was nothing

:

01:05:59,190 --> 01:06:01,880

else that could have helped you first.

:

01:06:01,990 --> 01:06:06,350

I mean, like preventative measures,

like, I mean, really diet.

:

01:06:06,950 --> 01:06:07,770

Exercise.

:

01:06:07,820 --> 01:06:08,760

It is medicine.

:

01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:09,060

Yes.

:

01:06:09,500 --> 01:06:14,380

It is what our bodies cannot

be more than what we put into

:

01:06:14,380 --> 01:06:15,700

it and what we do with it.

:

01:06:16,110 --> 01:06:17,060

It actually can't.

:

01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:19,550

It's a it's a physical law, right?

:

01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:20,970

It is.

:

01:06:21,020 --> 01:06:26,080

It is whatever you put in it and

whatever you physically do with it.

:

01:06:26,630 --> 01:06:30,680

And I think that the people that

I've met who practice the best

:

01:06:30,700 --> 01:06:33,610

preventative medicine tend to

be very connected to their body's

:

01:06:33,610 --> 01:06:38,410

experience and incredibly respectful

of their body's lived experience.

:

01:06:38,670 --> 01:06:40,730

And so, I mean, it really

all ties back together.

:

01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:41,779

Um.

:

01:06:42,225 --> 01:06:47,835

And so, yeah, if anything besides

traditional American healthcare

:

01:06:47,835 --> 01:06:49,385

can help you, do that first.

:

01:06:49,535 --> 01:06:52,705

If physical therapy is

an option, do that one.

:

01:06:53,115 --> 01:06:57,505

If there's any, symptoms of depression

or anxiety that could be associating

:

01:06:57,685 --> 01:07:01,495

with, , combining to amplify your

physical symptoms, which is very common.

:

01:07:01,495 --> 01:07:02,335

Yes, yeah.

:

01:07:02,455 --> 01:07:03,385

Look into that.

:

01:07:03,695 --> 01:07:03,995

Yeah.

:

01:07:04,170 --> 01:07:08,510

, another thing that I love to always

teach people, especially, um, people

:

01:07:08,510 --> 01:07:12,310

that are still younger and by younger

when I'm with, if a nurse tells you

:

01:07:12,310 --> 01:07:16,920

you're younger, it just means you're not

75, by the way, you feel really young.

:

01:07:16,940 --> 01:07:19,240

If you talk to me, you're going

to feel so young because I'm going

:

01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:20,260

to be like, Oh, you're young.

:

01:07:20,290 --> 01:07:21,125

You know, you're 68.

:

01:07:21,125 --> 01:07:22,060

I'm like, Oh God, you're young.

:

01:07:22,490 --> 01:07:32,145

Um, So, density of, uh, muscle in your

glutes and your quads, that one indicator,

:

01:07:32,145 --> 01:07:35,745

so like if you were to, you know, cut

a core, sorry for the graphic, but like

:

01:07:35,765 --> 01:07:39,095

pull a core of muscle out and study it.

:

01:07:39,545 --> 01:07:44,305

How strong and how dense that muscle is,

is the best indicator of how independent

:

01:07:44,315 --> 01:07:46,005

you will be as an elderly person.

:

01:07:46,415 --> 01:07:47,995

And it comes down to such a simple thing.

:

01:07:48,005 --> 01:07:49,865

You got to be able to get up from a chair.

:

01:07:49,925 --> 01:07:50,345

Yeah.

:

01:07:50,495 --> 01:07:50,855

Yeah.

:

01:07:50,945 --> 01:07:55,315

Or manage stairs, for example, but

really sitting up from a chair and

:

01:07:55,365 --> 01:07:56,835

all that is, is a reverse squat.

:

01:07:58,045 --> 01:08:01,705

Resistance training for women,

cause we lose our density faster

:

01:08:01,725 --> 01:08:06,705

than men do, but it's important for

everybody, but like just some good

:

01:08:06,745 --> 01:08:13,005

squats, like some good strong buns

and legs will add to your quality

:

01:08:13,005 --> 01:08:14,595

of life more than you could imagine.

:

01:08:17,950 --> 01:08:18,090

They're studies.

:

01:08:18,090 --> 01:08:18,680

This is published.

:

01:08:18,729 --> 01:08:19,390

Big butts.

:

01:08:19,710 --> 01:08:20,600

It's published.

:

01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:21,330

It's good.

:

01:08:21,430 --> 01:08:22,740

Get some muscle.

:

01:08:22,750 --> 01:08:24,720

Get some muscle on your back.

:

01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:24,910

I know.

:

01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:26,569

How many times have I said that?

:

01:08:26,580 --> 01:08:28,149

Everyone's like, stop already with this.

:

01:08:28,180 --> 01:08:29,080

But no, it's so true.

:

01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:29,500

It's so good.

:

01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:30,720

It's absolutely true.

:

01:08:30,729 --> 01:08:32,180

And it metabolizes your stress.

:

01:08:32,430 --> 01:08:33,760

It metabolizes everything.

:

01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:35,979

I mean, that is our metabolic currency.

:

01:08:36,229 --> 01:08:36,430

Yeah.

:

01:08:36,490 --> 01:08:37,569

But that's a whole other conversation.

:

01:08:37,870 --> 01:08:38,569

We won't go into that.

:

01:08:38,569 --> 01:08:40,950

It breaks down all this

stuff that's just there.

:

01:08:41,050 --> 01:08:41,490

Yeah.

:

01:08:41,590 --> 01:08:41,910

Yeah.

:

01:08:41,910 --> 01:08:43,620

Well, and dementia, you

know, we've mentioned that.

:

01:08:43,630 --> 01:08:46,770

That's such sort of,

it's just so common now.

:

01:08:47,300 --> 01:08:50,960

And that's one of the best

things that you can do is have

:

01:08:51,029 --> 01:08:52,930

really good insulin sensitivity.

:

01:08:52,930 --> 01:08:56,010

And the more muscle mass you have,

the more insulin sensitive you are.

:

01:08:56,010 --> 01:08:57,059

Yeah.

:

01:08:57,059 --> 01:08:57,069

Yeah.

:

01:08:57,069 --> 01:08:57,080

Cool.

:

01:08:57,240 --> 01:09:01,490

That is the best thing that you can

do for yourself is build and maintain

:

01:09:01,490 --> 01:09:02,970

as much muscle mass as possible.

:

01:09:03,020 --> 01:09:03,279

Yeah.

:

01:09:03,363 --> 01:09:06,163

, I feel like I know that

you've got to get going.

:

01:09:06,163 --> 01:09:09,502

So I want to be respectful of

your time, any really like last

:

01:09:09,523 --> 01:09:11,252

thoughts that you have for us.

:

01:09:11,273 --> 01:09:13,832

And then I want you to let us

know where everyone can find you.

:

01:09:14,423 --> 01:09:17,553

, we may have to do a whole separate

episode on navigating insurance.

:

01:09:17,613 --> 01:09:18,283

I don't know.

:

01:09:18,283 --> 01:09:20,513

Or are there just a couple?

:

01:09:20,513 --> 01:09:20,593

Let's do it.

:

01:09:20,593 --> 01:09:20,683

Absolutely.

:

01:09:20,693 --> 01:09:21,313

Oh, you want to talk?

:

01:09:21,323 --> 01:09:22,243

You want to talk nerd to me?

:

01:09:22,643 --> 01:09:23,233

Let's do this.

:

01:09:23,233 --> 01:09:29,042

It's a lot to talk about money all day.

:

01:09:29,042 --> 01:09:29,792

It's so crazy.

:

01:09:29,803 --> 01:09:30,143

Yes.

:

01:09:30,173 --> 01:09:33,423

There's so many ways to try

to save money on healthcare.

:

01:09:33,462 --> 01:09:34,573

God, I could talk about that forever.

:

01:09:34,683 --> 01:09:34,973

Yeah.

:

01:09:34,973 --> 01:09:38,582

So any last thoughts that you want to

make sure you leave listeners with?

:

01:09:39,582 --> 01:09:40,223

Oh my goodness.

:

01:09:41,018 --> 01:09:47,448

Um, don't be intimidated, they

are not smarter than you, your

:

01:09:47,448 --> 01:09:53,368

healthcare providers don't know

more than you know about yourself.

:

01:09:53,455 --> 01:09:57,445

our knowledge as healthcare

providers tends to be very, very,

:

01:09:57,445 --> 01:10:00,485

very deep in very certain subjects.

:

01:10:00,934 --> 01:10:04,425

Be that a phase of care like

hospital or clinic, be that a

:

01:10:04,434 --> 01:10:06,825

specialty like autonomic neurology.

:

01:10:07,075 --> 01:10:09,645

They don't know the breadth.

:

01:10:10,065 --> 01:10:12,595

Your job is to take all

the best information.

:

01:10:12,605 --> 01:10:13,675

They work for you.

:

01:10:13,985 --> 01:10:16,155

Remember, they serve you.

:

01:10:16,395 --> 01:10:17,725

You are the king.

:

01:10:17,885 --> 01:10:19,505

They are your advisors.

:

01:10:19,525 --> 01:10:21,395

You are Daenerys Targaryen, okay?

:

01:10:21,755 --> 01:10:23,145

They are your counsel.

:

01:10:23,505 --> 01:10:26,365

You decide with the

information given to you.

:

01:10:26,365 --> 01:10:27,845

You don't follow them.

:

01:10:28,425 --> 01:10:30,025

You decide based on info they give you.

:

01:10:30,545 --> 01:10:31,115

I love that.

:

01:10:31,215 --> 01:10:31,715

Yes.

:

01:10:31,875 --> 01:10:32,375

I love that.

:

01:10:32,925 --> 01:10:33,405

Absolutely.

:

01:10:33,615 --> 01:10:38,215

So tell everybody where they can find

you and I'll put all this information

:

01:10:38,215 --> 01:10:40,395

in the show notes to everybody

so you don't have to remember it.

:

01:10:40,515 --> 01:10:41,455

Wonderful.

:

01:10:41,485 --> 01:10:41,905

Okay.

:

01:10:41,905 --> 01:10:48,595

So my business is called Lighthouse

Healthcare Navigation and I also work

:

01:10:48,635 --> 01:10:53,875

with an incredible company that I must

mention called Grayzone Health for

:

01:10:53,885 --> 01:10:59,835

people struggling with rare neurologic

endocrine and other disorders, complex.

:

01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:05,630

, gray zone health is the best place to

find me for non, , rare disease work

:

01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:07,540

lighthouse healthcare navigation.

:

01:11:07,790 --> 01:11:08,309

com.

:

01:11:08,820 --> 01:11:11,220

And , my name is Sarah Jane Yang.

:

01:11:11,230 --> 01:11:13,590

If I didn't mention that

before, you can also find me

:

01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:14,920

just good old fashioned Google.

:

01:11:15,110 --> 01:11:15,710

Love it.

:

01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:16,330

Awesome.

:

01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:18,290

Well, thank you so much for

being here with me today.

:

01:11:18,290 --> 01:11:21,870

This was fantastic

information and empowering.

:

01:11:22,225 --> 01:11:23,325

You know, and hopeful.

:

01:11:23,335 --> 01:11:25,915

So thank you so much for

sharing all of this with us.

:

01:11:25,915 --> 01:11:27,225

I really appreciate you being here.

:

01:11:27,545 --> 01:11:28,015

Thank you.

:

01:11:28,015 --> 01:11:28,904

Thanks for having me.

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