Join us on The Rough Draft as we chat with Brandon Carter, a seasoned brand strategist and copywriter with over 12 years of industry experience. Brandon's expertise lies in crafting strategic narratives for VC-backed startups and publicly traded tech companies, helping them define their brand meaning and connect with audiences across various media platforms. Together, we delve into the essence of "brand," exploring its rising significance in today's business landscape, what it means to be a “Creator Brand,” and his go-to productivity hacks. Brandon's invaluable insights illuminate the path to navigating organizational chaos, bringing clarity and cohesion to the intricate fabric of brand identity.

Guest Bio

Brandon Carter is a strategist and copywriter with over a decade of experience shaping the narratives of both tech behemoths and beloved childhood brands. Beginning his career in business development for iconic names like Peanuts and Sesame Street, Brandon later transitioned into the tech world, where he made his mark as an early employee and marketer at Outbrain, pioneering content marketing workshops for Fortune 500 giants such as L'Oreal and Bank of America. His journey continued as he took on leadership roles at Codeword, spearheading content programs for leading platforms like Snapchat and Waze. 

Based in Brooklyn with roots in Maine, Brandon's passion for both his work and personal pursuits shines through, whether he's crafting brand strategies or immersing himself in creative endeavors and tennis matches.

Additional Resources

• brandoncarter.co
• LinkedIn: Brandon Carter
• Instagram: brandedcarter
• Twitter: brandedcarter
• perplexity.ai

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- And that can be

one of the more challenging

parts of that process,

but it's also, I think,

the most rewarding.

- That just seems to

be where a lot of eggs

are going into baskets.

- And usually somewhere

in there, there is a new,

there's a new insight.

- Almost, like, all of this work

that people almost just kind of forget.

- And ensuring that

everyone sort of embraced

the same vision.

But at the same time,

was empowered to make their own decisions.

- I'm Colton Holmes,

and today I'm your host

on the "Rough Draft."

In this episode, I sit

down with brand strategist

and copywriter, Brandon Carter.

Brandon's been in the

industry for over 12 years,

helping develop strategic narratives

for VC-backed startups and

publicly traded tech companies.

He's an expert in helping businesses

develop their brand meaning

and connect with audiences across owned

and earned media experiences.

We spend some time defining brand

and discuss the increasing importance

of brand strategy for companies.

We talk about how businesses

are telling a story

through every decision that they make,

and how Brandon's work helps

bring order to the chaos

of that decision making

throughout an entire organization.

Alright, here's my conversation

with Brandon Carter.

(gentle upbeat music)

All right, Brandon, something

you and I talked about

in our pre-interview a couple weeks ago

was this idea of companies are

inherently telling a story,

whether they're intentionally

telling the story

or not with their brand and

how they approach customers

and how they interact with customers.

And, you know, a customer or an audience

is always going to be receiving a story,

whether the way that it's

intended to be received

or whether they're interpreting

it in their own way.

And so...

For better or worse.

And so I wanna talk about

and ask you just to define

what, you know, the term brand actually is

when it's in relation to a company

and what they're producing.

- Sure.

Yeah, sure.

You can get different definitions

from different people, I'm sure.

But the way I think about brand is

it's kind of the sum total,

the sum impression that

people have of a company.

And they're gonna form that impression

in lots of different ways

and through different

touch points, you know?

Any encounter they have

with the brand in the world,

whether it's, it could be an ad,

it could be customer service,

whatever it is, you know,

the sum total of all those experiences

inform what this company

is about, you know,

in a person's mind.

And so that's why I

think in the brand world,

you know, notions of

consistency come up a lot

'cause I think every company

wants to be delivering sort

of a consistent experience,

giving a consistent impression,

making it very clear to people,

you know, what to expect from this brand

and, like, deliver on it time and again.

But in practice, you know, obviously,

it can be a very difficult thing.

- Yeah, I think it's

easy, for me at least,

and I would assume others are the same,

to think of brand just

as, you know, the visuals

that a company produces,

whether that's, you know,

graphic design or video

or website design.

But it goes beyond that.

I mean, the ethos of their story,

you know, infiltrates

what's my experience.

And if they have a storefront,

what's my experience when I

walk in to when I walk out.

- Yeah.

- How far does that reach

and what are some things that

maybe I'm not aware of that,

you know, you think of

as a brand strategist

that I'm just never even thinking about,

you know, this is also a part of brand

that I'm experiencing.

- Sure, yeah.

I think any touch point or

interaction or communication,

even if it comes through a third party

is part of sort of the brand story.

You know, so earned

media is a great example.

Someone is writing about a brand,

you know, in a magazine

or something like that.

That's not like, the brand

only has so much control

in that environment, right?

Now it's sort of in someone else's hands

to sort of tell the story.

But whatever a reader or viewer

picks up from that story about the brand,

that now is gonna inform

how that person thinks about that brand.

So Boeing is a great example

and sort of what they're going

through right now, right?

I think very often,

there can be a bit of a disconnect

between what a brand says

and then how the brand behaves.

And I can guarantee you

that somewhere in Boeing HQ,

the word safety is written

on a wall somewhere

as, like, a brand value

and, you know, I'm sure

it's been practiced,

you know, for a long time.

But the way things are playing

out in the media right now,

people maybe feel a certain

type of way about that now.

So, that's just an example of something

that's, you know, even

when the story is picked up

and placed in the hands of

other people to tell the story,

that too is sort of part of,

that becomes part of this

overall brand impression

that someone is getting.

- Yeah.

- You know?

- Yeah, I mean, I think

whenever you put it that way,

brand just takes on this whole

new weight rather than just,

you know, the quick surface

level idea of what a brand is.

Because every decision a company makes

between who they affiliate

with, who they hire even,

even, like, some small

decisions might have an impact

on how consumers are

engaging with this brand

or their thoughts around this brand.

And so it just adds,

like, a lot more weight

than, you know, what I

traditionally think of

whenever I hear the term brand.

- Well, and what's kind of...

I mean, you're not wrong

to place some weight

and value on things like

logos and things like that,

because, I mean, those things are very,

they're very useful as sort

of brand shortcuts, you know?

Gap blue, that's, like,

their blue, you know?

That's, like, it's useful.

It helps people just sort

of very easily identify

and form kind of a connection

to that brand, you know?

But it's not the only thing

that defines the brand.

- Yeah, the gamut is really large

of what, you know, lives

under this umbrella

of the term brand and

what a company is building

and their engagement with customers.

And so, man, let's talk

about what your role is

as a brand strategist.

Tell me about what that

is and what you do.

- Yeah, the way I like to describe it is,

I help companies decide how to show up

in the world, you know?

And there are a lot of decisions

they need to make about that,

and I think my job is to help

make those decisions easier

and help ensure that they truly are rooted

in addressing the problem, you know?

Because every company has grand ambitions

about, you know, how

they wanna be perceived,

the growth of their business,

all of those things.

But they have very real,

they're very real challenges

that sometimes get in the way of that.

And that's how I view strategy.

Strategy is about trying to apply

whatever advantages you have

on your side to a problem.

So, you know, I think very often,

the trick there is helping brands,

helping brands gain clarity

and sort of simplify things.

'Cause again, it gets very complicated

in sort of the day-to-day.

The competitive environment,

you know, it gets more intense by the day,

consumer opinions and behaviors change.

They're dealing with a lot.

And, yeah, I view my job as coming in

and sort of in some respects,

maybe helping a company

get back to some basics.

Maybe there are things in the brand's DNA

that sort of, we've lost

sight of a little bit,

but they're there.

And, like, how can we then

sort of apply that to,

yeah, how the brand shows

up maybe in a refreshing way

or in a way that maybe

surprises consumers a little bit

or just kind of cuts through the noise

and stands out from the competition.

- So just kind of going

back to that idea of,

you know, companies telling a story,

and then audiences and

consumers receiving that story.

And potentially, sometimes

there being a disconnect.

Would it be fair to say

that sometimes your role

is to come in and bridge that gap

and to work from both ends

from the company's perspective

and, you know, really stepping into

what consumers are thinking

or wanting or feeling

and the bridge that connects those two?

- Yeah, I think that can be,

I mean, that can be one

of the more challenging

parts of that process,

but it's also, I think,

the most rewarding.

I think a couple of things.

I think most companies

and brands have a very...

They have a pretty good understanding

of, you know, who their

consumer is, you know?

They put a lot of, like, effort

and investment in understanding that.

So I always walk in kind

of with that assumption

that, like, you know, to some degree,

like, you know, this

company knows the audience

better than I do.

- Right.

- But sometimes it's very easy,

it's remarkably easy to lose

sight of that a little bit

when you are just so consumed

with, like, the story you want to tell

and the things you want to say.

'cause you're like, it's just important.

We need people to, like,

believe this about our brand,

probably for commercial reasons

or the competitive

environment or whatever it is.

And so I like to look at that process

as sort of maybe a

realignment with the audience

and, like, what the audience

finds important and prioritizes

and how they behave.

And also like, what,

what the audience expects

from that particular company

or that maybe category

that the company is in.

And so, even in a situation

where the company has a very

good handle on the audience

and, you know, stays

close to the audience,

I find there's always opportunity

to still get more data,

more insight on consumer.

There's no substitute for,

like, talking to people

just straight up, you know,

literally asking people these questions

about their experience and their habits

and things like that.

And usually somewhere in there,

there's a new insight maybe

that the company maybe just

lost track of a little bit

that can really spark something.

and like you said, maybe help

alert the brand to the fact

that, like, there is a little

bit of a disconnect here.

Like, I know you, you know

your audience very well,

but on this particular thing we're like,

we're missing a little bit

and maybe you didn't realize

that this was a problem,

or maybe you didn't realize

this was a strength that like,

that sometimes it's a

good surprise of like,

actually, people really like

this thing about your product,

not this other characteristic

that you're really trying to push.

So, yeah, it's a super important

step in the process for sure.

- Yeah, and I think it's not

changing, you know, the story.

It's more of just telling it

in a different way maybe sometimes.

Because I think it's

important, like you said,

like, companies, they're

wanting to tell this story.

This company was built out of this passion

for this thing, you

know, most of the time.

And you don't want to

maybe sometimes steer away

from that aspect of where

this brand was originated,

but more of, "Hey, let's try and tell it

in this different way

so that what you're wanting to share

is received the way that you're

wanting it to be received."

- Yeah.

I think this is part of the whole notion

of being audience-centric,

which, you know, in some ways

is like a fairly recent revelation

for a lot of industries and companies.

It's simply about just

staying attuned to, yeah,

making sure you're thinking of

and solving people's problems

as opposed to being so myopically focused

on just, like, what you want to say.

And again, it's very easy

to lose sight of that

in the day to day.

- Talking about just how consumers

engage with brands today,

a lot of that is content-driven

and creator content-driven.

That just seems to be where a lot of eggs

are going into baskets

as the content creator.

And so, on that note, you came to Austin,

to South by to talk about

can brands act like creators.

Rather than just always

tapping into the creators,

can they develop their own platform?

Can you tell me a little

bit about that question

and why it's so relevant today

for brands and companies to consider?

- Yeah, yeah.

So I was moderating that panel.

I was with Alicia Morales from Skillshare,

Ryan Mack from Made In Network,

which is a studio

that does a lot of great

work with creators,

and Carla Lalli Music

who's a food media creator,

I guess, is how she would put it.

But, yeah, I guess sort of the question

behind that question was,

can audiences build,

or rather can brands

amass audiences online

and sustain that?

Because I think that, I mean,

that to me is a question

that's probably never gonna go away,

and the models for how you do that,

I think we've definitely seen some shifts

in the last 10, 12 years.

Like, for example, 12 years ago,

the answer to that

question was sort of like,

brand should act like publishers.

That's what brands were told.

Brands were told, if you

want to, like, engage people

online in particular

and kind of stay engaged with

them, stay close to them,

you need to build these kind

of editorial properties.

You need to build these

destination websites

and, like, try like hell

to get audiences there.

Literally, kind of deploy

these audience development

strategies of pulling in new audiences,

and then keeping them engaged.

And I think now in 2024, it's very rare.

A lot's changed, right?

Like, it's pretty rare to find that model.

Redbull.com used to be held up

as, like, the perfect example of this,

where it was sort of this,

like, extreme sports,

like, media property, you know?

Now it's, like, Formula 1,

who won the Formula 1 race, you know?

Makeup.com was,

that was, like, a novel

thing that L'Oreal started,

and it was like, what a

great idea to have a site

that's almost, like, pure wow, you know?

Like, with all these, like, great,

like, skincare tips and things like that.

Now when you look at that property,

a lot of that content is

just curated from creators.

So, clearly, there was a shift.

I think, obviously, publishers

have gone through a lot

in that time.

I think suffered a bit

at the hands of tech

and the big social platforms

and all of those things.

So, yeah, the question was sort of like,

"Well, what's next for brands?"

If that model has sort of gone away,

what degree of control can brands have

over developing audiences who

show up for them, you know?

Because I think what you're seeing now,

you alluded to this already,

in this kind of creator-centric model,

brands that are just trying to partner

and collaborate with

creators, which is smart.

I mean, I think that, sure,

like, creators have amassed

so much influence and audience

now, like, they're rivaling

the biggest media companies in the world

for audiences online

who love these creators

and, like, come back to them

for more and more content.

So, brands are always gonna

kind of follow the audience,

smart to partner with creators,

but I also think brands usually want

a little more control than that, you know?

So that's where the

question sort of comes from,

is there an opportunity for brands

to actually act like creators

and maybe adopt some things

that creators do very well

to, yeah, develop their own

relationship to audiences

and develop this,

develop this sort of

gravitational pull online

so that audience is actually,

so that they know audiences

are showing up for them,

the brand, and not necessarily

showing up for the creator,

and then the brand is sort of

hanging out at the periphery,

like, you know, "Hey, hey,

over here, look at me."

You know what I mean?

So that was sort of where

that question came from.

- Yeah.

Do you think there is a brand

that's doing that particularly well?

- Yeah, this came up on the panel.

It's a well-known example.

I think Duolingo does

that very well, right?

On TikTok, like, you know,

they got 10 million followers on TikTok

and the content is, like,

pretty simple stuff.

It's like someone twerking

in an owl costume,

and there are funny captions and like, you

know, people just like it.

- Yeah.

- You know?

But I think there's this

perception that, you know,

they're sort of the exception.

It's like how often, you know,

brands should not expect to first of all

maybe make that level of investment

in, like, one platform like TikTok,

which we can sort of see maybe the folly

of, you know, putting

your eggs in one basket

now that TikTok is under

sort of legislative threat.

You know, these platforms

can always change,

whether it's the algorithm changing

or something regulatory happening

that can really screw things up.

But I think, yeah, there was this notion

that came up on the panel

that I think is very useful

for brands to think about, which is,

if you're not sort of in the TikTok model,

how can you serialize your expertise?

I think that probably,

I think most brands can

use that in some way.

And that doesn't necessarily mean

that you have to do video at scale,

which is what, you know, TikTok does.

But, you know, it's easy.

Again, it's, like, kind of cheap video,

but it works really well for that platform

and they've sort of

started a phenomenon there.

But, yeah, brands typically, I think,

don't maybe do video scale

typically well, you know?

It's like, it's never

really like a proficiency,

so it's something that they have to learn,

but there are other ways to be,

there are other ways

to act like a creator.

It doesn't just have to be a video thing.

Newsletters are a good example, you know?

Newsletters are as popular

as they've ever been.

And, you know, there's no

reason a brand can't develop

a great newsletter that people talk about,

share with friends, ask people like,

"Oh, do you read that?

It's actually really good."

And that's something I, you know,

advise clients on all the time.

"Have you thought about

starting a newsletter?"

So, yeah, there's lots of

answers to that question.

There are different ways

of thinking about it,

but I'm interested to see where it goes.

I think we're just at the beginning

of sort of that realization, maybe?

That brands can actually learn some things

and apply some things to

their own marketing practice

when it comes to communication

and speed of production

and efficiency of production,

and authenticity, obviously, is a big one.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

I wanna take a second

and, you know, step into

just some of the processes

and tools that you employ

when you are hired into

positioning a brand.

And there's a story that you

mentioned a couple weeks ago

when we were talking

with Francis Ford Coppola

and about the way that

he approached his crew

on set with "The Godfather"

and employed a tactic with his crew

in order to alleviate some

things from his perspective.

Can you tell me that story?

- Yeah, I'll start with the story,

and then I'll kind of back

into how it sometimes applies

to this kind of brand work.

But, yeah, the story,

I think it's probably

kind of a famous story in some circles.

A buddy of mine, I

think, told me about it.

But evidently on "The Godfather,"

well, first, you know,

Francis Ford Coppola, I think,

developed a reputation in the '70s

for making these really difficult movies.

Like, the movies were

just, like, at it's peak.

They were very difficult to make.

He really suffered, like,

physically and mentally,

I think, in the process

of making these movies.

And "The Godfather" was not an exception.

He was dealing with a

lot of decision fatigue

and just sort of realizing how much of,

you know, being a director

was truly just, like,

answering 200 questions a day,

coming from different department heads.

You know, what color should this be?

What tie should Michael

be wearing in this scene?

And so he realized that

this was not sustainable.

He can't sort of focus on

what he needs to focus on

and also be kind of making

all of these micro decisions

and sort of micromanaging the process.

So he developed what is

essentially a strategic framework

for collaborating on this movie

and ensuring that

everyone sort of embraced

the same vision, but at the same time,

was empowered to make their own decisions

and make the decisions in their own way.

So he basically just

developed a one word theme

that distilled the meaning of the movie.

You know, 'cause that's

always the question,

is like, "What are we making really?

What is this movie about?"

So on "The Godfather," that

one word theme was succession.

This movie is about succession.

And anyone who's seen the movie,

you know, can understand that.

So anyone who read the script

and was working on that

movie can understand that.

So he found that in

developing this one word theme

to describe the entire

enterprise, which was succession,

now when someone from the

costume department came to him

and asked him,

"Oh, which tie should we

put on Michael Corleone

in this scene?"

he could say, "Which tie

says succession to you?"

And the costume designer

can now go and make an informed choice.

Now, they might make a

different choice than Coppola.

Like, for all I know, there

they scenes of the movie

where the tie Michael Corleone's wearing,

Coppola still like, "I don't

know if I would've chosen that,

but let's go with it."

But, you know, the point is,

just in creating that alignment

with one word across

the entire enterprise,

his life got a lot easier

and people were empowered

to go and do their thing.

'Cause they're experts, right?

They're all...

They wanna make sure that, you

know, the director is happy,

but also it's kind of a shame

to kind of squelch their creativity

in service of this, you

know, dictatorial ego.

So I love that story

'cause it's truly about empowering people.

It's about ensuring

that everyone is rowing

in the same direction.

And at the end of the day,

it is about efficiency too.

It's like, it just makes

everything more efficient.

So, yeah, in the brand world,

I'm always looking for that one word,

or maybe it's three words,

but like, what is that theme or meaning

that we can unlock that helps us just make

all of these decisions

from what the new logo should look like

to the content we should develop digitally

to where we show up, you

know, in the real world?

- I want to kind of go from there

and talk about just what is your process?

And I know that you mentioned

you kind of take that approach

of taking one word and using

that as you approach projects.

Can you just kind of walk

me through a little bit

what all that looks like?

- Yeah, sure.

Well, I think very often the hard part

is finding that one word or three word.

So I think I go into any project

knowing that that's what I'm looking for,

and they need to be these

kind of evocative words

that really just nail the brand

or, like, what we're

trying to do, you know?

And so...

But that's a process

getting to those words.

It involves talking to lots of people.

It involves talking to lots

of people at the company.

Usually, involves talking to people

outside of the companies,

partners, customers,

whoever they are, doing

that sort of research.

And then you're trying

to kind of synthesize

all of these inputs

and you're literally just kind of trying

to spot patterns, you know?

What kind of keeps coming up

in all the conversations that I'm having?

You know, what are

those consistent themes,

what's kind of consistent feedback?

Maybe there's a word that keeps coming up.

And that's when get excited.

It's like, now I feel like

we're honing in on a truth

that doesn't feel so subjective.

It feels a little bit more objective.

And I think that's important

in trying to get that buy-in

from whoever it is you're working with.

That like, this isn't just

about, you know, pretty words

and sharing our thoughts.

We are trying to...

We're embarking on a

process to find the truth

and we have to gather all of these inputs.

But then, at some point,

we have to make some decisions

about what's important

within all of those signals.

And I think recurrence

is a really good way

to kind of figure out what

is truly important here.

And then once you have those,

once you have those recurring

themes, then it becomes,

yeah, a little bit easier

to now make decisions

on, you know, messaging

or, yeah, visual identity.

How can we use these words,

which are now maybe functioning

as, like, creative filters

to, yeah, make decisions on color,

typeface, language, all of those things.

That's the fun part, I think.

- So with all of that,

are there some principles that you have

that you kind of adhere to,

that you instill into every project,

that you, you know, approach like that?

You always go back to this as,

"This is a principle that I want,

you know, to just

continue to inform the way

that we're approaching this project?"

- Yeah, yeah.

We've talked about a

couple of them already.

I think one is definitely

this idea of recurrence.

You know, what am I

consistently encountering

in terms of feedback or just

information about the brand

and where we're trying to go.

Simplicity also is another one.

That's why I love the Coppola story.

I mean, if you truly can distill

what might seem like a

complex problem or ecosystem

down into one word

that everyone can

understand what it means,

there's, like, nothing better than that.

And I always aspire to reach

that level of simplicity

sort of by the end of

my work in the process.

Doesn't mean I always

get as close as I want,

or like I said,

sometimes that can be a really difficult

part of the process,

but I definitely judge,

I think I judge my own work

on simplicity and clarity.

Like, did I bring that

to this collaboration?

Because it's easy to

sort of complicate things

and feel like, "Well, if it's complicated,

that it's sophisticated."

I think in this work,

I think the opposite sort of true.

Simple is sophisticated

because we all know how

much work it can take

to arrive at this point

where we're confident

in something as simple as

one word or three words

kind of being our framework

for how we're gonna make decisions.

- What are some tools that you,

maybe some, like, tangible

tools or software,

or even, you know, physical tools

that you lean on while you,

you know, do your work?

- There's a few.

I do a lot of interviews,

kind of like what we're

doing now in my work.

So, something as simple

as a transcription tool,

honestly, is super useful.

So I can actually have a conversation,

you know, with a stakeholder

where I'm actually listening.

I'm not laboring to, like, take notes

on every single word that person says.

I know there's gonna be a record of this.

And if I need to kind of go back,

and again, look for those recurring themes

and patterns, I can actually

do that with a transcript.

So that's a big part of it.

And that actually, that helps

me approach an interview,

again, with sort of,

I usually have a few objectives in mind.

Like, there are things I'm looking for

when I have those conversations, you know?

And so there's not this

pressure to take notes

on every single thing.

I'm sort of waiting to hear.

So even if I'm not a hundred

percent sure what it is,

I know I'm sort of

looking for a few things,

and once I start to hear them,

that's my moment to, like, pounce.

So that's a big one.

I also think, I mean, I love...

I mean, there's a lot of

AI-enabled tools out there.

I like using something like perplexity.ai,

which is an AI-enabled search engine.

And I sometimes I think

that's a great place to start

if I'm just trying to get

a picture of this company,

like, what does AI think this company does

based on all of the inputs

it has at its disposal?

And, you know, usually, I can get some,

I'm not gonna obviously take

whatever answer is spit out

is gospel truth, but sometimes

I'll get some strange

or evocative words in that answer

that kind of spark something

and I'll write that down.

Like, that's an interesting word

to associate with a software company

or whatever it is, you know?

And then also it's great.

It'll show you sort of like the sources

that it's getting this information from.

So I can decide if I want to,

if I need to do some more digging,

I can clearly see that,

"Okay, this is where it's

getting information from.

Let me do a little deeper dive

on this particular source."

So, yeah, those are a couple

off of the top of my head

when it comes to, especially

those initial stages

of just trying to wrap your head around,

"All right, what does this company do,

what's the competitive market like?"

Audience insights.

you know, perplexity.ai, I think,

is a great place to start,

yeah, wrapping your head

around some of those questions.

And then, yeah, a transcription

tool that just allows you

to actually be present

in conversations you're

having with customers,

with stakeholders at the company

without worrying about, you know,

losing any really important information.

- Yeah.

Yeah, that's good.

Man, it's really encouraging

just to hear your entire process

and it's really fun for me

to get a get a peek into what you do.

But I like the idea of that,

that you're bringing order to chaos

and that you're alleviating

decision fatigue

within a company,

and that you're creating this

really streamlined approach

into how a company tells their story.

And it just really empowers everyone from,

you know, CEO level to

entry level in a company

to continue to tell the

same story and synergy

and continue to go back to this game plan,

back to this brand strategy

that has been intentionally

and thoughtfully

and really carefully

established in a brand.

And it's just, it's just something that,

I think it seems, like, takes

so much work and dedication

and thought, and then just

becomes like, hopefully, I think,

and I would maybe you

have a different opinion,

but hopefully it just becomes

like this second nature

part of the company.

Because it's been rehearsed so many times

in so many different ways

that it just becomes something

that almost doesn't even

get thought about as much

because it becomes part

of the organic structure

of where the company goes,

is what I would assume

would be, like, the hope,

is that almost, like, all of this work

that people almost just kind of forget

because this is just like,

"Oh, this is just what we do."

- Totally.

Yeah, if it becomes really effortful,

then it probably is not going to succeed.

And I think that's part of it.

How easy is it for an

entire collaborative,

creative, corporate

enterprise to actually adopt

and deploy whatever we are

saying the solution is.

And if it's really hard,

yeah, it's probably not gonna succeed,

and that probably means

there's, like, more work

that needs to be done.

So there is usually this

sort of like test phase

right after maybe we've

kind of come to the end

of the process and said like,

"Okay, this is the solution.

This is how we're gonna

deploy all these changes

to all these different

brand environments."

There does need to be, I think,

before maybe, you know, putting

all the eggs in that basket,

let's, like, test it out.

Let's see, is it, like, seamless

and easy for people to adopt...

I'll give an example.

I did an internal

communications strategy project

not too long ago,

and that was, like, one

of the core objectives

right up front, was just sort of like...

We know that internal communications

very often falls to managers,

and they're super busy.

And whatever solution we come up with,

it has to literally take them,

like, almost no time to, like, adopt it

'cause, like, we can't be creating,

like, extra work for them.

That's a limitation that might sound like,

well, that's very limiting

if you're saying any

solution we come up with

has to take almost no additional

time for managers to adopt.

And it's like, that is limiting,

but that's kind of the beauty of strategy.

It is now forcing us,

that's where the creativity comes in.

We now have to get creative about

how we're gonna, like, empower managers

to be better communicators

within the organization

in a way that takes them

almost no additional time

out of the course of their week.

So, yeah, that is a big part of it.

There does need to be an ease.

I've used the word simplicity

a lot in this conversation,

but ease, which is like, maybe

a slightly different word,

there's a slightly

different connotation there

but they're related.

Ease has to be a big part, I think,

of this kind of work too.

There's ease of information

and just sort of helping people absorb,

you know, what the solution is.

And then there's, like, ease of deployment

and adoption and things like that.

Those are usually things I optimize for.

- Yeah.

Well, Brandon, thanks

again for joining us today.

For those who are listening,

how can they connect with you online?

- Yeah, you could definitely find me

on all the main social media platforms.

If you're on X or Instagram,

it's @brandedcarter.

See what I did there?

- Yeah.

- Branded Carter.

And yeah, yeah, you can

hit me up on LinkedIn,

whatever it is.

And, yeah, I love connecting with people,

so, yeah, don't be shy.

- Yeah, it's funny.

I was actually gonna say,

we should title this

episode "Brandon on Brand."

But I'm sure you've heard

that joke a million times.

- Actually, I haven't.

But, yeah, I like it.

- All right.

Well, thanks again, Brandon.

I really enjoyed it,

and I hope to have you back on soon.

- Yeah, my pleasure.

Always great talking to

you and appreciate it.

(gentle bright music)

- Well, that's it for today's

episode of the "Rough Draft."

To learn more about our guests

and to find links and resources

related to the conversation,

check out rev.com/podcast.

That's R-E-V .com/podcast.

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