Welcome!

This is a conversation with my oldest brother, Josh, that followed the one you may have heard published on Father's Day. We talk about how he thinks of aging and the role of his daughter, and more on living with an aging parent (from the male perspective).

It was so unique I figured it should be it's own episode.

You can find out more about Josh at his website.

Also - check out my course coming soon! July 20th

unSanwiched: five steps to managing mental drama about aging parents

Caveats:

• This is a judgement free zone
• There are no "shoulds" allowed, we live in curiosity
• Take what works well for you, leave the rest!

If you are finding value in this podcast, please share and leave a review so others can find it too!

Rebecca

Disclaimer: The information presented on this podcast is solely for information purposes. We do not provide medical, legal, financial, or other professional advice through this podcast and we are not responsible for any errors or omissions. It is your responsibility to seek advice from a licensed professional. Any actions you take are done at your own risk.

Hey everyone.

Welcome to this bonus episode of real conversations about aging parents.

I know we usually publish on Wednesdays, but today is my brother's birthday.

And a couple of months ago, he was gracious enough to let me interview

him about living with our dad.

And just for context, this is a continuation of the conversation

that you might have heard that I publish for father's day.

So while we're talking, my dad is actually sitting next to

us and nodding and commenting.

You may not be able to hear all of it, but, um, just for, for context, this

was actually a family conversation.

I want to thank Josh for being a willing to talk on this topic and

wish him an extremely happy birthday.

Thank you so much.

Enjoy.

So how does that look for you?

How do you think about that?

Like how do you think about how we as siblings divide the roles

of supporting our crazy parents?

That's an odd I thing to think about at 48 years old it just seems like a foreign

concept, but I only have one daughter.

If I had a son, I, I think I'd want my daughter to do it.

Why is that?

And I, there's no right answer.

Wondering.

Yeah, no, it's, uh, like I wouldn't want my son to see me like that.

Ah, you know Brianna?

Yeah.

She's seen me at my worst when I went through the divorce and I had

some bad days there, but she was just empathetic and I didn't have.

The same issues that I think I would have in front of my son.

All right.

Like even in front of my male dogs, I don't do that stuff.

I don't cry cuz they're a male dog.

You know what I mean?

I'm just joking, but, so that, I hadn't thought about it like that.

Yeah.

I I Do you think that might be like, cuz dad's in a hospital gown, right?

Yeah.

I don't wanna see him like that , like, I, I don't want to see him sick.

So if I, so when you take dad to the hospital and I

kind of like rumble in Right.

With bags of stuff and you're like, okay, I'm, I'm done.

Like what's going through your head?

Hmm.

You're like, I'm glad I was here to facilitate.

Yeah.

I'm glad I was there, but I don't like to see him getting older.

Okay.

That's a hard, like I'm watching him age before my eyes.

You've said that over the last few years, many times.

Tell me, tell me what that means.

That's just physically I'm watching him kind of, you know, he's getting older.

He has more hair than you I know.

So I still need to get a DNA test one day.

But, um, Yeah, you do.

I don't know, it's just hard to see.

It's not hard to see your dad age, but it is, it is difficult to see that he

can't do the stuff that he wants to do.

Like he doesn't ride horses anymore.

I know he wants to, but I know that if he throws his leg over

one, his back's gonna probably go out no matter how good he feels.

And then we're gonna have two or three weeks of here limping around.

Like he can't hardly do anything.

And it's hard to watch that, watch him go through that, but, but you know.

So I, I try to support it in other ways by making sure the place is taken care of.

And yeah, he can still sort of see life or see all that stuff that I know he

probably wanted to do with his life.

Like we all did , like doing all the horse stuff that we do out here, all

the cattle that are out here now.

And, but for me, I, I wouldn't want Brianna to see me like that.

I mean a, a son to see me like that, Brianna, I.

I, I keep telling her, uh, make sure you have a room for me one day, . Really?

You do.

Now I always tell her that.

Are you serious or are you joking?

Yeah, I, I I guess I'm halfway serious.

You know?

Tell me about that.

Why do you think that My chosen profession isn't in conducive to retirement?

Right.

Right.

So it's, I do this as long as I physically can, and at that

point, I don't know what I'm gonna really have to live on after that.

And so I always tell her, uh, similar to I said, you see how Nana.

It was, it was with Becky, right?

Yeah.

That's, that's my expectation of you, . And uh, I say it joking, but

I also say it knowing that Brianna's probably gonna be there for me

one day if I really needed her.

Cuz she's always said that.

And tell, tell everybody how old is Brianna?

She's 21.

No, she's 22.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah.

It is past March 14th.

Yeah, she's 22.

So what does she say when you say that?

Do you, I mean, I, I can't imagine she doesn't like to talk about it.

She doesn't, because that means you'd be older and need help.

She doesn't, she never ever wants to hear me talking about what,

what's gonna happen when I die one day and all that kind of stuff.

She's not ready.

But you're But you're open about that.

Yeah.

She's not ready to talk about it at all.

She's, what happens when you talk to her about it?

She gets very upset, very quiet.

Like, she tears up, she doesn't wanna talk about it.

Oh.

So that's a, it's a hard thing to bring up with her right now,

cuz she's just starting her life.

Sure.

Yeah.

You know, and, um, Hopefully starting a family one day.

Not too soon, not too late, but, you know, so she's not in

that mindset right now to have a conversation like you have with dad.

Right.

Right.

Um, so I, I try to, um, manage that or I try to still be her dad

by not bringing it up right now.

Sure, sure.

Knowing that it's going to be there one day.

. Yeah.

And hopefully she'll be in a better mind space to talk about it then, but.

Okay.

Um, hopefully she doesn't have to worry about it at all, you know, and it's

something that happens one day and it'll be rough like it is for everybody.

But, um, can, can you think of any friends or colleagues or anybody that you're

aware of that has had issues with aging parents or had to change their life or

career or things to, to help with them?

My dad, I had a spouse that got very, very sick.

And I always kind of aligned that to kids that have parents that get very old

or very sick, , I was in the military when the worst of it was happening.

Uh, but I heard the stories and it was awful.

And, uh, you know, he stopped construction and became a nurse and I

mean, there's just so much and, uh, so.

In my own lifetime, you know, my ex-wife had a, a mother who's aging and sick.

And she lives here now, right?

She lives here now.

So she relocated her.

Yeah.

Here she has the means to do that and put her up in a place, and it's

probably gonna move her to Florida with her when she moves to Florida.

Um, so do you think that there's like, like cultural

variations and what's expected?

No, like, did you feel like having married into a very different culture that No.

You had any say in whether or not you were gonna help take care of

your mother-in-law at that time?

No.

I think it is just all about how you're raised, in my opinion.

Right.

More than anything else.

Like the culture thing is just more of a, it's more like a general rule of I, I

think a general rule of past experiences from the vast majority of human beings.

Right.

So the vast majority of human beings believe that Hispanic families, for

example, are just more family focused.

Um, my experience, my family, which is mostly Caucasian, that I know of, pretty

family focused that you know of , right?

Well, I married a Puerto Rican, you know, the whole things,

but my daughter is whatever.

But, uh, yeah, I think, I just think it's just a, a matter of how you

were raised more than anything else.

Culturally, it's, it's more of a.

Cop out maybe to just kind of say it like that.

Like, my family has expectations that like we all take care of our Yeah.

Aging parents or something like that.

It happens in every race, color, creed, nationality.

I mean, people, I mean if, gosh, now that you say that, it, it flashes me

back to Saudi Arabia, um, when I was there for those nine months and got

to know some of those families over there and they live generationally.

Inside their big walls.

Like they build homes for each successive family that they marry in.

Like, but they're all right there.

Yeah.

And nobody, everybody takes care of everybody in that place.

Right.

That was pretty neat.

That was, that was different . Yeah.

That does not happen here.

You know, we all kind of shoot out, we all stay together.

We all tethered to some stake in the ground.

And this place right here is probably that stake in the

ground for most of our family.

Right.

You can go as far as you want, but eventually that line snaps.

And you either stop or you cut the line and then you go on with your life.

But pretty much everybody comes back out and stays in contact and

that kind of stuff, which is good.

Um, but that, that fam those families over there, that was unique.

So culturally I'd have to kind of amend that to think that there probably

are some that are, have more of an expectation, like strong traditions

and traditions and expectations drive more of what families do.

Uh, we're here in our, our experiences.

It's primarily just about how you were raised more than anything else.

So we got a little bit of both, you know, with Papa being kind

of how he was versus granddad.

I mean, the two completely different grandfathers.

Yeah.

Even Grandpa Ray, you know, we had, I had, he had one grandfather growing up.

I didn't know that.

Um, I may have known that, but I had three.

Growing up, right?

And all three were completely different people, human beings.

And, uh, you, you know, you knew who you were kind of drawn to and who you weren't.

So can you think of anything else about living with a aging parent?

Cuz you actually are living with an aging parent?

Yeah.

I, if I come in here and I see he's asleep, I usually just watch and make sure

he is breathing . That's a real thing.

Like there's a seriously, seriously, sometimes I walk in around noon or say,

Hey, Cow died or something, whatever I'm gonna tell him and I walk in there and,

and, uh, he's not in the office cuz he is either in the office or he is in here.

That's all he ever does anymore.

And, uh, um, if he's not in the office, I look in the bedroom and then he is usually

laying down and I just, I'll just kind of stare for a second and just make sure, I

just see him breathing and I'll say, all right, then I'll just kind of walk away.

Um, did you hear this?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

But I am, I, I know it's probably gonna happen similar to what

you're gonna go through with nana one morning or one evening.

It's just gonna happen and I'm pretty sure it's gonna happen out here.

Um, sounds like that's what he wants.

That's what not, that's why I don't think I'm gonna, yeah, it's gonna hurt.

It's gonna be tough to see it, but I'm also gonna be happy,

like his dad died on a bulldozer.

Which, I don't know if he necessarily wanted to die on a bulldozer.

Yes, he did.

But he died doing what he loved doing.

He said that many times, you know, and then I'm gonna

probably follow in his footsteps.

I don't really, I don't wanna end up having to go someplace else.

Yeah.

So something that, that barn I've always admired about you is you are very

comfortable talking about taboo topics, and you've even done some sort of study

on your own of maybe stoicism or zen or things of like, Thinking of life as,

as being very finite already, or, and I think you even told me once, correct me

if I'm wrong, that you've done some mental exercises of people that you care about

dying and then like going through that in your head and then re realizing they're

still alive and like, tell me about that.

What does that do for you or how does that look?

Uh, it's progressed over the years.

Um, I certainly wasn't like that at 20 years old.

. Um, but seeing like mass graves, seeing the death like slow down in Melvich and

Croatia especially, um, seeing that, that the kind of devastation that can

happen, what human beings are able to inflict on each other, um, when you

whittle it down, uh, to just the moment and the people that are in your life,

then it's, it's a lot easier to, um, start to think about those things.

Uh, compared to what the vast majority of humans who have ever

lived have to go through, right?

Right.

We're United States.

We're what I mean, when you think of every human being that ever lived from

the beginning of time, what they've all, what the vast majority of people

have had to deal with is, I mean, we're living very nice, very nice lives,

you know, and I'm very aware of that.

And if you have that perspective of seeing the rest of the world,

which most Americans don't, right.

Um, Okay.

You can kind of have, you can ha be more comfortable in that sort of

situation of talking about it and, and just accepting that, hey, it's, it

is what it is and it's gonna happen.

. Anything else you can think of that you think would be important?

The general topic of aging parents?

Yeah.

Um, just be patient.

I get, I get frustrated sometimes, uh, when I feel like I.

He's getting too old, too fast.

not, I don't think any Who You frustrated with him?

? Yeah.

I wish he was younger.

You know, I wish he could do more things, but, um, I try

to encourage him to be active.

Like he's really good at, still excellent at fixing things, like mechanically

just figuring out whatever's going on with a tractor, whatever, you know.

So I always, even if I think I can, might be able to figure something out,

I'll just leave it out there for a while and just keep saying, Hey, go on.

If you wanna help, go fix that this weekend.

You know, and just get him, get him to do something.

Yeah.

Um, but that's what, uh, but it's just like that sort of soft

encouragement of not trying to push him to do too much anymore.

Um, but keep him as active as he can be.

So he said that you're basically living out a dream that he had

to build a horse ranch here.

Do, are you doing this in parallel or do you putting that on your shoulders?

Do you even think about that?

Like, do you feel like this is separate?

Like, oh I happen to build the one thing you were dreaming about for decades?

No, it helps dealing with the guilt of feeling like I'm, um, I'm not like,

financially I couldn't do it on my own.

My dad's 70 years old and he's still working.

So there's always the guilt of feeling like, oh my God, is he,

is he only working so we can keep trying to do this thing out here?

I don't think so.

Cause I.

For the most part, I do everything on, all that stuff on my own.

But, um, but you don't like wake up every day saying, I've gotta

live this dream for dad and No.

Okay.

I hope he do not.

No.

Okay.

No, I mean, I, I grew up wanting to be John Wayne and Rambo.

I spent six years being Rambo, and now I'm getting to be John Wayne.

So, uh, no, it's, I, I, I used to work for a company called h e b.

Good company.

Really enjoyed it.

Uh, a bad situation arose up and I lost my job.

I didn't do anything illegal, , but I, I, I lost my job.

Um, I think, I still believe it was just a, an unfortunate situation.

Came down to a few managers dealing with a bad situation

and I ended up getting fired.

Um, and I just remember I talked to him one day and it wasn't like I was

asking his permission or anything, but I said, I don't, I don't think

I'm gonna go look for another job.

I think I'm just gonna start.

I'll take anybody who wants to learn horse, you know, that kind of thing.

And then we just kind of started off with that and then, and you know, I'm two years

into it and almost, and still kicking.

So, um, I know he enjoys it and I know he puts a lot into this, like

every once in a while come out there.

Just recently he bought a whole bunch of new 150 gallon water.

Water buckets.

Um, and those are, they're expensive.

They're great to have, but I think 140 bucks a pop, you know?

And he bought a bunch of like eight or nine, I don't know, 6,

7, 8 of 'em, something like that.

Put 'em in all the horse stalls out there.

And he does stuff like that every once in a while.

And I know he's doing it for the thing, but he's also doing it cuz

it just means something to him.

He likes to just go out there and just see the horses sticking their heads out of

the stalls when you walk down the aisle.

It's a neat feeling.

Yeah.

Yeah, just, uh, just don't take it for granted and just be thankful that

you have the opportunity to do it and, uh, have your dad participate in it.

Um, it's a good thing.

It's a good thing.

Just don't get too high and don't get too low.

Just try to stay even keel as best you can.

. Awesome.

Well, thank you.

You're welcome.

Thank you for sharing that.

Is this a podcast you're gonna do?

I don't know yet.

I gotta go feed here.