In this week's episode of The High Profit Event Show, host Rudy Rodriguez sits down with Kristin Ostrander, the founder behind mommyincome.com. With a background spanning nearly 19 years in the e-commerce space, Kristin's journey from a mother seeking supplemental income to the leader of a seven-figure business is nothing short of remarkable. Her story is not just about personal triumph but also a testament to her dedication to teaching others the keys to replicating her success, particularly through the strategic use of events since 2017.

Kristin opens up about her initial foray into e-commerce, driven by the necessity of supporting her young family during the lean winter months typical in the Midwest. Her evolution from selling on eBay to becoming a significant presence on Amazon showcases the potential for growth within the online retail world. Moreover, Kristin's pivot to hosting her events arose from a desire to impact her audience on a more personal level, addressing a gap she noticed in traditional conferences and seminars.

The conversation delves into the nuances of creating events that not only impart knowledge but foster a hands-on learning environment, leading to direct application and deeper understanding for attendees. Kristin shares invaluable insights on the marketing strategies that have enabled her to fill event spots consistently, emphasizing early planning, understanding the audience's pain points, and leveraging social proof through testimonials.

One of the most enlightening parts of the discussion revolves around maintaining engagement post-event. Kristin illustrates how she has successfully converted a staggering 75% of event attendees into clients through a membership group designed for continuous learning and community building. This approach not only keeps the conversation going but also supports clients in implementing new strategies and overcoming challenges encountered along the way.

Kristin also touches on her personal journey, highlighting her resilience through significant challenges, including overcoming debt and foreclosure. Her book, Dream Big Step Small, encapsulates her philosophy of achieving big dreams through consistent, small steps, a message that resonates deeply with entrepreneurs at all stages of their journey.

Listeners will come away from this episode not only inspired by Kristin's story but armed with practical strategies for leveraging events for business growth, building lasting client relationships, and the importance of persistence and small steps in achieving significant goals.

For those eager to dive deeper into Kristin's teachings, her weekly podcast, The Amazon Files, offers a wealth of information on e-commerce and entrepreneurship. Additionally, her book, available in various formats including Audible, provides a step-by-step guide for those looking to replicate her success in their entrepreneurial endeavors.

Don't miss this compelling episode with Kristin Ostrander on The High Profit Event Show. Click the link to watch the full episode and join us in discovering the transformative power of events in the world of e-commerce.

Want to connect with Kristin?

Website: https://classes.mommyincome.com/

Book: https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Big-Step-Small-Overwhelm-ebook/dp/B07R76H3KW?ref_=ast_author_mpb

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-ostrander/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mommyincome/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@MommyIncomekristin

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kristin.ostrander/

If you'd like to be a guest on the High Profit Event Show, click HERE

Hey, Rudy Rodriguez here, your host of The High Profit Event Show, and on today's episode, we have a really special guest with us today, Ms. Kristin from Your Mommy Income. Welcome, Kristin.

Hi.

I apologize. I misspoke. It's actually Mommy Income, sorry, mommyincome.com. Kristin, we're excited to have you on the show today. One of the reasons that I'm excited to have you here is because you have a proven track record of nearly 19 years in business in the e-commerce space, having started as a mom that needed to create some supplemental income for her family because her husband had a construction job that had long winters and now you are, 19 years later, running a seven-figure business for many years now and teaching people how to do the same thing that you did, and having run events as being one of the most exciting parts of your business since 2017. So really excited to have you share with us on the show how you're converting 75% of those event attendees into clients.

I'm so excited. Thank you for the invite. I'm excited to share all that I have learned so that other people can do the same because it really is such an exciting way to bring in new clients, meet new people, and keep them around.

Absolutely and then, Kristin, it's always nice to share with our audience here a little bit about your background, like what got you into e-commerce? I know I mentioned it briefly, but you want to share a little bit of that, your story, and eventually what got you into doing events?

Sure thing. So I started e-commerce kind of out of necessity. We were a young family married right outside of high school, high school sweethearts, if you will. My husband's a little bit older, but he was in commercial construction and always working hard and long hours for the summer and spring and fall. But winter seems to be a little bit longer here in the Midwest. We're from the Michigan area. So we always have long winters. There was always this need for this supplemental income from time to time, just being a young family and having a couple of kids made it really difficult because I wanted to be able to stay at home with them. So we wanted to be kind of a family and not be passing in the night or doing that sort of thing while the kids were young. So I discovered e-commerce. At the time, it was still fairly new to flip things on Ebay. So I kind of started there. Then as I grew and kind of fell in love with the business, Amazon came about and allowed 30 third-party sellers. Of course, they were a major bookstore for many years and then expanded into the everything store. My business has kind of grown and expanded from Ebay onto Amazon. I've been there ever since.

Awesome. Very cool. In 2017, you mentioned to me prior that you had been an attendee of many events. You had been speaking at events and then you saw a need for your people to come together and have some in-person learning. Can you kind of tell us a little bit about your journey that led you to your first event?

Absolutely. So one of the first things I started teaching in 2014, participating in some Facebook groups and things like that, sharing my experiences and my successes with e-commerce, stirred up a little bit of attention. I was invited to be on several different shows and webinars and people asked me to share what I've learned and that turned into Mommy Income, which is my teaching platform. So as I was beginning to do that and realizing that I wanted to speak and share more of my story and my strategies to bigger audiences. So I started to apply for different speaking opportunities and was able to be a speaker and be featured in several different events. But I realized that I really wasn't impacting the people that I really wanted to impact. I feel like my passion was growing in the way that I was able to come from foreclosure and $50,000 of debt to a seven-figure business in e-commerce. I really wanted to share that story and bring some hope and some real success and practical things to people. I feel like I wasn't able to do that as one of 20 or 30 speakers, say, at a conference. I wasn't impacting the amount of people I wanted to impact in a specific way, which was really to help people grow their businesses and have the successes they want on a personal level. So as I was analyzing what the options were out there and in thinking about being a speaker and everything else, I realized that the best way to really impact the people I want to impact was to hold my own event, my own conference of some sort. At first I thought it might be a conference and then realized there were a few holes in the market there as far as hands-on teaching.

People didn't just want to come and be spoken to and take some notes and kind of be firehosed with 15 different speakers and all of their information. A lot of the people I spoke with were like, well, I wish I could just have an hour to actually do some of this work hands-on and try to figure out how it all works. A light bulb went off in my head and thought, now that is something I can actually do. I can create a situation or an event where people can come and actually do the work and have hands-on experience and walk away with results. So I aimed to create an event that was going to fill that gap for the people that I was speaking to.

Awesome. Great and then your first event, you did it. You put it on. Tell us a little bit about that first event. How many people were always curious to know how you promoted it? And people want to know, how do you fill the event and kind of how many people were there? Just tell us a little bit about that first experience. I know that first experience is probably very unique. Maybe a lot of lessons learned that first time. I know now you're way better. I haven't done it, five plus years.

Certainly. So really what's really important about an event and the marketing and filling the spots is really understanding the pain points of the people that you're serving. If you know your clients well, if you know your customers or even just your audience, maybe they're not even your customers yet and you want them to be or you want them to be more part of your event. You need to understand what motivates them and what is causing them to want to learn from you to begin with. They have a problem. They have a need that you can fill that gap for them and because of that, the more that you know them, excuse me, the more that you know them and their pain points and their struggles and the needs that they have, the more you can create an event that meets their needs. So one of the ways I was able to market that is, first of all, I spent many years building an audience from scratch. Every single week I'm showing up and giving my clients and my listeners, my audience, really good content that they can take action on and because they have learned to receive that content on a regular basis, they want more of that and they learn to trust you. When they learn to trust you, when you say you've got something to teach them, they want to learn. So one of the most important things is really having a really good knowledge of who you're serving and what needs you're going to meet for them. Then the marketing is really starting early. That is one of the biggest things I would say of filling the spots of your event is to start earlier than even you're comfortable with. Sometimes you just have to have a location and kind of a loose agenda to have a waiting list and then save the date.

Maybe people aren't putting their money in just yet, but they have a waiting list or save the date so that when you are actually ready to roll it out, that you have plenty of time for people to make travel arrangements and things like that. So I think timing is really important next to your messaging, knowing who you're serving and exactly the needs you're going to meet for them.

What I'm getting from that is to start as early as you can, even if it's saving the date and just booking a reservation at a location and then figuring it out. That's great. Can never have enough runway to promote an event. Great. So you had your first event and in that first event, what would you say are some of like this is the first time the lessons that you learned that first time around?

I think one of the lessons that we learned was keeping the curriculum simple, not feeling like you have to teach all the things all in one day, all at the same time. If you're doing an eight hour workshop, that's what we were teaching is like a full day workshop. What we realized in the beginning was, number one, we were trying to teach too much in one day and not just some key concepts that people could really walk away with their several basics rather than trying to cram a 40 hour course work into one day. So that was one of the first mistakes that we made was trying to teach too much in one day, having more of a focus. Then the second thing we learned was that printed material is underrated. A lot of people really like workbooks and sheets that they can write on notes, things like that, something that they can really take away and fill in the blank kind of a thing, because there's just so much information in one day that you learn, whether it's a it's a conference type style, a summit style or even a workshop. There's so much information and we're not going to retain all of it all at once. So having some sort of printed material, whether it's a copy of your slide presentations plus a written material, that was a number one request we got at the first workshop that we did not provide that we then have provided ever since we after the first event, we created a workbook that goes along with our event and that changed the game for so many people. So that was something that we didn't do in the beginning that now has been perfected.

That's great feedback. How did that workbook have those deliverables physically? You said it's underrated. People like to have something tangible. I actually remember one of the first workshops I attended, it was an online marketing workshop. I remember they gave me a little binder and that perceived value of having that binder with those notes and all that. It was just high. I think I still have it somewhere today. Very cool. Thank you for that. So let's fast forward a little bit. You've done about four a year of these workshops and until COVID, but you've restarted since. Maybe you want to share about what you've learned and kind of where you're at now with your events. Like how do you currently promote your events? How do you currently run your events? At the end of the day, how are you converting 75 percent of your attendees into clients? I mean, that's the magic question everybody wants to know.

That's definitely the magic. Ok, that was a lot of questions all at once. So I'm trying to digest each one.

We'll do one at a time. Responsibility for that. So that was your first event. So you've done many since then. Let's talk about what's working for you right now. So for your most recent events that you've done, I think this year you've done one or two. What worked for you as far as how you promoted those events?

The promotion of the event is a lot of teasing and the coming soon and the add it to the calendar and save the date and join the waitlist. So we have had because I mean, this works, whether you've been doing it five years or none, creating a buzz or creating the drama or creating the FOMO, if you will, about an event saying this is limited. That was that one of our marketing strategies is that we aren't for everyone. We are not open to everyone. I like to give my clients and my people a lot more intimate attention, which costs a little bit more and is also very limited. So because of that, we are very unapologetic about how many spots we have available. That really creates a lot of buzz, because if you're one of the 24 that want to come to this conference and whether it's four times a year or six or wherever, you've got to sign up early because they sell out. That's something that we say on a regular basis. They have all sold out. So because of that, it's definitely a selling point. But even if you haven't held an event, you can say this will sell out and be confident knowing that you are doing your best to provide the best information for people. So the marketing is internal. Most of it is email, but a lot of it is podcasts. So I have a podcast every single week without fail. There is an episode and because of that, we're very strategic about our advertising. When I say advertising, we have internal advertising and we have external advertising. When we have an event coming, we have to let people know that it's there and it's available and that they have a limited time to grab that.

It's just a genuine thing. I share a lot of testimonials, even if you only have one client saying something, even if it's a testimonial, not about your event, but just about you or your level of teaching or whatever it is you're bringing to the table. Testimonials are really important for other people, especially if they're spending over a thousand dollars on something that is definitely a price point where people start to really think, I don't know about this. Is this really going to be a good use of my time, money and energy? So they want to hear from other people like them that say, hey, I've been to this event. It's life changing. Or I found my breakthrough or this teacher is easy to understand. Whatever testimonials you can get from any client anywhere really helps to promote because people want they're looking for confidence or looking for security. They're looking to not waste their money and they want to make sure that this is the best use of their time and resources. Testimonials really help that. So that really has helped us work. Since the beginning up until now, we've evolved gathering those testimonials while we are in person at the event. One of my team members will grab people and say, hey, can we talk to you about your experience? How's it going so far? What have you learned? What is the takeaway? Can we get this on camera? Can we record it? Can you write a statement? Any of these things we help them give us what we need for marketing. So using being intentional about that while you're in an event also for the next event is gathering that marketing, because now what markets for us is all of the customers and clients who have come to previous events. The clip on Facebook or Youtube will be one of my clients telling people about their experience at my event rather than me telling them why they should come. I have other people telling them why they should come and what they've learned.

One of the most powerful forces of influence is social proof. It's the shortcut in people's heads. It's like if other people found value from this, other people, everybody wants to get in the long line and then you have the scarcity with, hey, there's only 24 spots, which is legitimate. It's a real thing and you honor that. There's nothing more motivating to people than a rapidly diminishing supply of something that they desire or they want. So I think between that social proof, what I'm hearing and the scarcity, and then a few other factors, like I can see how you fill up your events quite fully. That's excellent. Thank you. Any other comments to share or secret sauce on how you promote and sell?

The secret sauce we wanted to get to was converting those clients that come in there to something else. I think that is another forward thinking intention that if you have an event that needs to be considered for the ongoing client relationship, so people come to your event and then you just drop them off at the bus station and never see them again. Most of the time, they're coming to an event that you're holding specifically to see or hear from you. They want to continue the conversation. They're probably going to have more questions than answers at the end because they're excited and they're learning. They're writing everything down and they're absorbing, but then they go home and they sit there for a while and they think, Oh, where's the question? How can I continue the conversation? Most people want to continue the conversation. So after the first event, we learned this. We learned that people are like, well, this was so great and we loved it. We want to continue talking to you and other people. Where can we gather again? It's kind of what they were asking. So immediately for me, I saw that as an opportunity. I said, well, if they're wanting to gather and continue this conversation, not only with each other, but also with me and my team, we need to create a place for that. So we created a membership group where it's not on Facebook, but I mean, that's part of it, But we created offsite so that people could come and specifically talk about these e-commerce strategies that we're teaching them and they have questions and they want to talk to other people and bounce ideas off of each other. That's what people were really wanting. The community and more learning and more specific questions and answers and access to you as a leader. That's what they want. They want to be able to have access to you.

So after the first event, we realized we needed this space. We created a membership site, which is a paying membership for people, only advanced students who have come through our program and are ready to continue growing. It's a membership. It's an application only. So it's not just open for anyone, any time to come. You have to be a good member of the community and part of the team and you have to qualify. The qualifying brings quality, continual members in there. I would say the 70, between 70 and 80 percent of the people that come to the workshops in person, they learn, they join the membership group, they come in and they're like, we want to continue the conversation as a great we have a place for you. We have a special offer for you. I present this at the end of my event every single time to close the event. We do a Q&A and I say, I'm so thankful for everyone coming here. This doesn't end here. We are going to continue this journey together. This is how and before people walk out the door, we have a way for them to continue the conversation with us. It's very, very powerful. Even in that moment, people are inspired. They want to continue learning from you. That's a real way to continue the conversation with your top clients.

Absolutely. That's great. In a way, I had a mentor that once made this comment and it stuck with me and said, you have an event, you're solving one problem, but in a way, you're also creating another problem in that now people have new frustrations, new challenges, new things that they didn't even know they had before the event. They want to have someone that can help them navigate, help them implement, help them get past those stucks after the event. I'm a big believer personally that the event is where the transformation begins, but it's not until unless they commit to mastery and getting ongoing support beyond the event that they're really going to have the most likelihood of getting those results and having that transformation become permanent in their businesses, in their lives. So it's so awesome that you found a way to continue the conversation for over 75 percent of your attendees.

It's been such a journey to be able to continue and now it's like they come as strangers and leave as friends. That really is how it feels when we're getting together. Even a lot of the groups have spinoff groups of their own where they've formed lifelong friendships with each other from coming and just working side by side. So it's so powerful. So I guess just wrapping that up, it would really be whether it's a membership group or something else, be ready to help them in the next step of their journey because they don't often just come and stay and leave and never see you again. They want to continue the journey with you. So my suggestion there would just be to have a place that they can go after this and not just drop them off at the event and leave them.

Definitely, and if it's ok, I love to ask a few clarifying questions because this is really interesting. So your membership program, you said you offer it at the end of the event. When specifically is it, by the way, is your event two days, three days, how was your normal format?

We kind of do three days, but not a full day. So usually it's a Friday evening. We have a meet and greet cocktail party where, because there's no teaching, it's just whoever's getting involved. We get together for a couple of hours and I just get to meet people for the first time and just chat with them, get to know them. They all know me. They all know you if you're the host of the event. So I like to just get to know them more and just kind of be present with them. It makes teaching easier the following day when I have just got shoulder to shoulder with people and ask them some questions about their life, their business, what they like, what they enjoy. It helps give me reference points. Then day number two is hands on work shopping. We have very little lectures and very much interactive group work. People are putting specific products together. We're doing research together that day. Usually we provide coffee and small breakfast in the morning and we provide lunch and then everyone's on their own after that for dinner. Then the third day, unique to us, is that I usually do my workshops coinciding with trade shows so that I can help my clients break the barrier of communication that they have with their e-commerce vendors that they're looking to do business with. So I do personal trade show walkthroughs with groups of people, four or five people or so, and we go through trade shows together for an hour We talk about the different things and how you speak with them and how I got them a form that they fill out, just different actual tactile things they can do to communicate with their vendors. So that's kind of generally what our event is. I think that beginning is really helpful to kind of get to know some people.

So you have some reference points and I present the offer at the end of day two after all of the training and teaching and we come together and we have kind of a, so how is your day, kind of like vulnerable talk. We say, what was challenging? What did you guys struggle with today? What kind of breakthroughs did you have? Then after that, when everyone's just jazzed and fired up and really like this was so awesome, I'm going to say, but wait, there's more. That's kind of where when they're in that happy place they've gotten the breakthroughs they wanted that day and they really have learned and are so excited. That's when I really present the let's continue the conversation and become a member of this community so we can continue what we're doing here. This doesn't have to end. That's kind of how I present it in a way that they're like, yes, we don't want this to end because everyone's kind of out there. They're at that top of the mountain feeling when they're in an event. That's kind of what events are for. So we have to capitalize on that at the moment. That has been the best way. We've tried it other ways where we've had a mini offer and just said, hey, if you're thinking about it, here's this and follow up with email. It just doesn't have the same effect if we really just have that invitation there and have a place for them to say, you can sign up for this right now after you leave today. The price sometimes changes, but it's never about price. It really is just about we need to get you here immediately. So I have my team member at the back of the room before people are leaving, basically like here, are you going to join the hub? If so, this is how, scan this QR code and you're in. So we have it set up intentionally to have people sign up on their way out.

That's a goal we're looking for there is like when, how, process and the reasons why. So whatever you say is Friday evening, Saturday, Sunday, so at the end of day two, once they've had some challenges and you get them present to, hey, how's your day been? What's been difficult? Let's continue the conversation. By the way, we have a way to support you beyond this and encourage them to sign up right here, right now and go to the back of the room, see your team member, scan the QR code, get in now. I think that's the important thing to emphasize here is because I have experience that people put off making decisions as long as they can until we give them enough reasons, logical, emotional to do it right here, right now. Otherwise it doesn't happen. So thank you for clarifying that. Your membership program, is it three months, six months, 12 months indefinite? Like what's the container look like?

It's ongoing, so it doesn't have a specific. We have a couple of payment options. But besides that, it's either just monthly or annually. It just comes with a specific set of benefits. Number one, the biggest benefit is that I offer a coaching and mentorship program outside of this, usually at an hourly or annual rate. That's significantly reduced as part of the monthly membership. So one of those is the group coaching that a lot of people really are signing up for as that part of the benefit. But also part of the benefit is direct access to me and the questions that I can answer for them. Also we do monthly trainings. So that's something that's just part of the benefit is that it's student led. So they suggest, hey, we need to learn about this. We need a video about this. We don't know how to do this. So I respond with the training that they're asking for. So it's very student-led. I'm just not putting out a bunch of content I think that they want or need. I'm actually asking them, what do you want to learn next? Then that's what I teach them. So it keeps people around because they really feel heard, listened to, and they're getting the education that they need. So that helps create a lower return rate, if you will, on a membership type thing. But just really listening to your people and asking them very upfront, very bluntly, what do you need? What are your struggles? How can I help you? When you ask people that and they answer you and you can deliver that, that's how you can keep those conversion rates high and keep them. I don't have to have a million clients. I just need to have a handful of really happy ones.

I keep coming back over and over and over again. That's wonderful. Hey, we have a few minutes left on today's episode. By the way, everything you share has been really valuable. Appreciate those extra details you put in there. I love that. Just a little bit on the personal side for a moment here. I did see that on your website that you have a book that you released in 2020 called Dream Big, Step Small. So congratulations on that. You like to share a little bit about that book for the audience.

Sure. So Dream Big, Step Small was born out of, I don't know, four years of putting it off. Actually at an event of a mentor that I actually really respected and finally got to meet in person. I was talking about his new book. As I was sharing some stories about what is part of my journey, he's like, when are you going to write a book? I had never considered it. I was like, no one wants to hear from me. I'm not like you. Of course, we make these instant comparisons in our mind. Then I thought, well, why not me? Why not tell this story? Because I really want people to understand that no matter where you come from, and part of my story is that even though I was building a wonderful business and had this wonderful family, my husband was injured at work. That was still our main bread and butter at the time when my business was smaller. We lost everything. We lost our home to foreclosure. We almost had to live in our car. We had three kids. We had injuries. His injury was almost career ending. Then most people think that you just get state aid or you get to workers comp and everything's fine. But that wasn't our story. We just, due to all kinds of different legal complications, it wasn't the way most people paint that sort of picture. So coming from nothing, coming from starting all over and trying it all again and trying to keep your head above water is just to bring hope to people that no matter what situation you're in, you can dig yourself out with a big enough shovel and a big enough determination to make it work. I just feel like if that story can even help one person. But I'm also very, very practical. I really, like ok, you can tell me all the sunshines and rainbows and the hoopla and the motivation, which I all love that, too. But let me give me the steps.

I'm all about the steps. What I realize is that I never had big lofty goals. I didn't have to make a million dollars. I just wanted to make the next hundred. So when you can see the very first step in front of you, you can take small steps towards your dreams. I small stepped my way out of fifty thousand dollars of debt, out of foreclosure and into a million dollars. It didn't happen overnight. It didn't happen. It's just a lot of really, really small steps. So it's just it's not really the Amazon journey. It's not a memoir. It really is a lot of practical ways. If you have a dream, you can get to it. You need patience, consistency and small steps. So that's kind of the book in a nutshell.

Awesome, I love that you share that, and there's a quote for me that that resonates and reminds me of what you're talking about, says I often can overestimate what I can do in a short period of time and underestimate what can be done in a long period of time and just taking those small steps along the way. That mental shift for me is what made a big difference for me a few years ago when I started thinking about the longer picture and smaller steps. It's a life changer with small steps. So what we'll do is we'll include in the show notes for our attendees so that they can also go and get your book. It's also on Amazon and Kindle as well as paperback. But we'll put a link directly to it for attendees. You also have a podcast that you release weekly. What's the name of your podcast?

The podcast is called The Amazon Files.

I did want to mention that I know a lot of podcast listeners. I like audio. The book is also available on Audible. So if you're a listener more than a reader, that's an option as well. But yeah, The Amazon Files podcast is my weekly show. I teach all about e-commerce and entrepreneurship. It's just a great show. I'd love people to give it a listen.

Awesome. The Amazon Files on podcast. Great. Then, of course, your main website is mommyincome.com So people can go there as well to learn more about what you do. I want to ask one last question before we wrap up. I just always love to ask personal questions. For you, what is your next summit that you want to overcome? What's the next milestone or goal that you have in your business? What is that for you?

I think for me, it really is breaking away or adding, I guess, additional topics. After 20 years in e-commerce, I love e-commerce and I'm doing really, really well at e-commerce. But I've learned so much along the way as far as the influence you can have with podcasts and Youtube and just creating businesses in general and all of the experiences I have that I want to share beyond my Amazon experience. So that is the next big challenge for me is moving into, I don't know if it's an additional or a replacement eventually, but moving into talking more about those strategies and topics, because that's just what lights my soul on fire. I have lots of ideas and strategies in business, no matter the industry. So I'd love to be able to share more of those ideas and strategies beyond the e-commerce space.

Very cool. Taking all that experience and expanding on different topics. Well, thank you again, Kristin, for being a guest on our show. Really appreciate you being on today. And for our listeners, be sure to like the episode, leave a review, share it with someone who you think will find value from this. Again, thank you so much, Kristin, for being on today. So with that being said, we'll go ahead and call it a wrap. Thank you.