In this episode, we’re joined by Dave Holloway, VP of Sales and Marketing at Sunstone and a welding expert with over a decade of hands-on experience. Dave brings a deep understanding of welding technology and shares valuable insight specifically for permanent jewelry artists looking to elevate their craft and protect their business long term.

We dive into Sunstone’s welder lineup, including the Zapp, Zapp Plus 2, and the high-end MPuls. Dave explains what makes the MPuls stand out, especially its True Fire Technology, which allows artists to weld at lower energy while still achieving consistent, clean welds every time. He also shares how the MPuls can support jewelers at multiple stages, from repairs to permanent jewelry and recounts one of the very first permanent jewelry demos back in 2016 that helped spark mainstream attention for the industry.

We also cover the importance of hands-on learning and why waiting too long to start can hold you back. Sunstone offers free video training focused on welding mechanics and has been supporting welders since 2008. Dave breaks down why at minimum, artists should invest in a Zapp welder and avoid unbranded machines that aren’t designed for delicate chains. He also explains Sunstone’s buyback options, repair policies, and the Circle Plan, which includes major perks like loaner machines during repairs or upgrades.

Argon welding and eye protection are both big topics in this episode. Listen in to hear what Dave has to say!

This episode is packed with education, practical tips, and industry insight for permanent jewelry artists at every stage. As Dave puts it, “If we want the business to survive long term and the industry to grow, we have to set ourselves up to give the best possible experience.”

Links:

Sunstone Welders: https://permanentjewelry.sunstonewelders.com/collections/permanent-jewelry-welders

eclipse welding screen: https://permanentjewelry.sunstonewelders.com/collections/permanent-jewelry-accessories

Sunstone training: https://permanentjewelry.sunstonewelders.com/collections/permanent-jewelry-training

V2_Ep 61_Dave_GLP_FINAL

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Dave: growth.

So if you're building a business that shines as bright as your stacks, you're in the right place. Let's link up and make some magic.

Jen Thyrion: Hey there. Did you know that we offer handmade permanent jewelry supplies? Go to goldie link supplies.com to view our beautiful chains, connectors, Bengals, and more, including our non-permanent stretchy bracelets that are available to you for wholesale. Everything is created by our tribe of mama makers.

Dave is the VP of sales and marketing at Sunstone and has more than 10 years of hands-on micro welding experience. He's been with Sunstone since it was a baby company. We talk a little bit about that. We talk about welding and one of the things we touch on is eye protection. So I wanna talk about this because this was recorded six months ago.

So important to protect your eyes. I just wanna say that out loud, and I hope you love this conversation.

Okay. I'm sitting here with Dave. So exciting. Why don't you start off and tell us who you are and what you do for Sunstone.

Jen Thyrion: few years I had to do the math. I was like, whoa, that's a long time.

Jen Thyrion: That's great. And so how many employees, do you know how many plays you guys have now?

Dave: We have been up to 60 plus.

Jen Thyrion: Wow.

Dave: So we've had some massive growth over those.

Yes. Over those years. We didn't start in pj, we started in industrial.

Jen Thyrion: Right. So when, okay. What, how long were they in existence prior to you coming on actually? Mm-hmm. Do you know the, the,

Dave: yeah. So they started like a year before I came in. Oh really? Wow. I was the first, they were, they were working out of the basement of the owner of the founders.

Crazy. Oh my gosh. I know that. Barely left the basement days. And then they're like, okay, 10 to higher and that's when I, I came off. Wow. So I barely missed the basement days.

Jen Thyrion: That's crazy.

Dave: Okay. But back in those days, it was fun. There was three engineers, a sales rep and me hired on to kind of help where I could.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: So I would take the order, close the sale, go build the machine, test it, box it, print the shipping label.

Jen Thyrion: You did everything.

Dave: Did

Jen Thyrion: everything. You were packing and shipping

Dave: as well. Yeah, I love that. That's how we were back in the day, so That's

Dave: Yeah. So it's been fun to start from there and then get to where we are here.

Jen Thyrion: Yes. That's amazing.

Dave: 50, 60 plus employees. I mean, we've got a massive new building here. Oh my gosh. It's gorgeous. Great use, gorgeous. I know behind us. Gorgeous. The mountains in every direction. So, yeah, no, it's been fantastic.

Jen Thyrion: That's awesome. Let's talk welding. So when did, so basically you came into this position not really knowing much about welding.

Correct. And then you just learned. Being in the ground zero. Right. Of the business you learned.

Dave: Absolutely. Yeah. It was widgets and gadgets, right? Yes, it was. You can sell anything, right? You can market and sell. It doesn't matter what the product was, so yeah, I did not grow up saying, I'm gonna be a welder salesman.

Jen Thyrion: Right,

Dave: right. I'm gonna learn how to mi weld under a microscope. That was never the goal. It was more business and practices and best, best practices.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: That got me here and it was just a convenient, there was an opening and it was down the road, so I took it.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah. Well, let's talk welders first, like, so how many welders do you have specifically for permanent jewelers right now?

Dave: Good, good question. Um, right now we've got, I believe, three models that we're pushing.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Dave: Uh, we just redesigned that. So it's, you know, online search for ZAP plus two.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: It's got that new slick PJ focused design. Okay. Less of our industrial background, like, um, in terms of how we design the product. And then the high end option is the impulse.

Jen Thyrion: Impulse. Yeah. I have the impulse. I love it.

So what's the differences between those? You would say like Zap. Going all the way to impulse. What is, what are the benefits? I think of going impulse versus ep.

Dave: Mm. Perfect. Yeah. The impulse has a lot more circuitry built into it.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: We've got what we call the true fire technology. Mm-hmm. And what that does is, if you may have noticed this, it at lower energies, it's hard to start the arc.

It's hard to get a repeatable fire every time. And that's because the voltage. Required to draw an arc is right on the cusp of when you're welding at one or two, uh, joules.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

That's the biggest advancement and why you're paying for more. There's almost a second. Well, they're built in for just the low, low energies.

Jen Thyrion: Interesting.

Dave: On top of that, we've got other features built in. It's a, it's a bigger box, a touchscreen. A much bigger touchscreen. Yeah. We've got it. So that kind of like your phone, it can switch orientation.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Dave: The impulse will switch orientation. So if you want more of a flat or a vertical, you can do that.

Jen Thyrion: Right.

Dave: And then it's more customizable to your brand. We've got, I don't, maybe a dozen different backgrounds so you can kind. Play with the feel. Yeah. And, and try to match up the look and feel of your, of your business or your brand or the popup you might be working.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah. So when I first started three years ago now almost, it was the model, was it the old impulse? What was that called? That an impulse?

Dave: Yep. That was also the impulse.

Jen Thyrion: But tell me the story, because it wasn't originally probably made for permanent jewelry, right. Is like how did permanent jewelry like kind of.

Dave: Yeah. No, that's,

Jen Thyrion: how'd that start?

Dave: That's perfect. Yeah. The impulse, the origin story.

The impulse. That was probably eight or nine years ago. We came out with the impulse.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: And it was designed to be our budget hobbyist. Entry level welder for our jewelry base customers. Okay. Who would do jewelry repairs? Resizing rings, welding on top of stones to extend a claw or a prong filling porosity.

And that was for people who were just kinda on the, the beginning stages of their career. So the impulse was never designed to be this big mass market product?

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Jen Thyrion: Wow, okay.

Dave: Uh, I was in Atlanta and met a girl who came up to the Atlanta jewelry show from Mexico, and she asked if I would weld a wire around her wrist, like a really small, probably like a 26 gauge wire.

Jen Thyrion: No way.

I saw one, you know, had this idea, I saw it somewhere, I wanna do it.

Jen Thyrion: No way.

Dave: And I was like, all right, yeah, let's do it. And, uh, it worked. I was blown away. I was like, I didn't believe it would even work. I was still skeptical of the idea. But

Jen Thyrion: yeah,

Dave: she did it. She bought the well there and. And still goes at it today.

I

Jen Thyrion: was gonna say, well, where she's at

Dave: today first? Yeah. That was maybe the first, my first experiences. Okay. And exposure to the idea.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: Uh, I think it was a few years later when it gained, you know, kind of mainstream popularity.

Jen Thyrion: Yep.

Dave: And if you go back to when that was, I mean, social media wasn't what it was.

Mm-hmm. Viral videos weren't what they are.

Jen Thyrion: Yep.

Dave: And so she was just a little bit ahead of her time. Yes. With that one, a few years later, you know, now we've got TikTok and Instagram and it just blew up. And of course the impulse not necessarily designed to be, you know, a big mass market product became that for the PJ crowd.

Yes.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: Because it did, it had the perfect range of energy and the price point that just fit.

Yeah. Right.

Dave: Well think about. Yeah, absolutely. Think of it, the, the original impulse was built off of a design that is now probably going on eight years with enhancements but not overhauls.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Dave: So the new impulse today is complete overhaul. Yeah. Uh, factoring in who is the primary customer being pj.

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Dave: Whereas. The original impulse that built the industry. Like there's, I don't, I can't tell you how many thousands and thousands and thousands of impulses there are out there, you know how it was the, the gold standard and flagship for anybody doing PJ early on,

Jen Thyrion: for sure.

Dave: They're out there and they work, they're great.

But knowing that that's the potential for the market, the new impulse that you see on online, online now, that one is designed to be mass market and to be robust and a powerhouse work work machine. For the PJ artists. Yeah.

Jen Thyrion: So the newest thing you guys have come out with is the eclipse. Do you wanna talk about that and what that is?

Dave: Yeah, absolutely.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: And it attaches to the stylus. So you no longer have to bring the person to the weld. You can take the well to the person. Mm-hmm. And still have eye, eye protection.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: You have that auto darting lens. Wired to the machine so it closes, it obscures itself or goes dark, uh, when the flash happens and the, and it lightens up again once it's done.

Jen Thyrion: Okay, cool. So, yeah, and I'm so glad you guys, 'cause I remember coming out here for the f You guys were in a previous building and I was talking to Jonathan about like, we need something on the stylist. But that was like before anyone had come out with something like that. And that was like probably the end of 23.

I wanna say I have one. We love it. My employee loves it. Let's talk about different methods and maybe what works for different people, but we'll, number one is closing your eyes. Enough. When you're looking, when you're welding and the spark goes off, could you close your eyes and protect your eyes that way?

Dave: So you want Dave's answer, sunstones answer.

Jen Thyrion: I want the true answer.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: Just like the arc that happens when you weld. Yeah. It, it's bright and as hot as the surface of the sun.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: So same thing. I mean, you, you can look at the sun sure.

And it's not long, and it's not gonna not long. You can look at it, it'll look

Jen Thyrion: at it,

Dave: it'll give you a, you know, you'll, you'll see the, you'll see a spot for a while. Sure. You can look at it. There's really no damage. You can close your eyes and look at the, look at the direction of the sun and not have, and not, not have any damage, right?

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Dave: There's nothing wrong other than a sunburn. Sure. You know, so yeah, closing your eyes does provide enough protection from the arc. Okay. That's created when you make a wealth. Now the sunstone answer to that is we always provide some sort of eye protection for

Jen Thyrion: sure.

Dave: Whether it's the, the glasses that are just tinted mm-hmm.

To filter out the UV and the IR light or any one of the optic options that we have, including, like we just talked about, was the eclipse.

Jen Thyrion: Right.

Dave: Uh, we will, Sunstone will always send something just. Just from a liability cover.

Jen Thyrion: Well, yeah. 'cause customarily with all your welding machines you are sending mm-hmm.

The,

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Dave: Just at a minimum. The hard part is. I mean, I've been doing this for 18 years.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: I know of the timing of my machine. I know when to blink.

Jen Thyrion: Exactly.

Dave: I do trade shows where I invite the customer to look through the microscope. I don't have a second microscope, so I will do the welds and let them see it happen through the scope.

Mm-hmm. And I've blinked every time.

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Dave: So I've been blinking my welds for 18 years. You can do it, but the concern would be is if you don't know the timing.

Jen Thyrion: That's the thing.

Dave: Right? Because I would never, never, when it judge the timing and you think you're gonna blink and then you see the flash.

Jen Thyrion: Exactly.

Dave: And it happens. I, I mean, I've done it plenty myself. Sure. I've seen plenty of flashes and I can still see. So

Jen Thyrion: yes.

Dave: No issues there.

Jen Thyrion: Okay. Yeah, because I think that even, I was just kind of comparing it to women in my membership, when we talk a lot about this and everyone uses different things. Like some people, like what you said, uses the microscope actually to do their welding.

Then I got these flip down, like things that went over my readers and I got 'em from Amazon. They just flipped down right to weld. Did that for a little bit. Had to flip it. Yep, yep, exactly. I created actually a 3D printed. Um. Holder that went on my stylist, but it's not obviously sophisticated as yours.

'cause there's no lights and there are no magnification. Sure, yeah. But that way I could put an auto darkening lens. I just Oh good. You know, and slipped it in there. I did that for a little bit. Like, so, but then in the end I was like, even when I do that, I still blink. 'cause I, I made it such a habit. I know exactly when it goes off.

Like you said, maybe once in a blue moon I'll catch a spark of some on this, you know, little bit right before I, I blink. But, so for me, I trust myself. But that's the thing. If you don't trust yourself to do that, definitely need eye protection. There's no way. There's no doubt.

Dave: Well, and I think too, there's different aspects and different hats that you guys all wear as PJ business owners and artists.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Jen Thyrion: Oh, for sure.

Dave: The liability of that. And exactly same like sunstone providing glasses at a minimum. You know, what do you wanna establish for your business? Mm-hmm. You hate to have an employee who does it wrong and, and you don't provide 'em with glasses and they don't blink.

Right. And they wanna come after you. So like, there's a couple different things to consider E when it comes to optics and eye protection.

Jen Thyrion: Completely. So we, I have an employee actually. We have your eclipse. We have what comes with the impulse. We have flip downs. We have welding glasses. I have a magnifying lamp in case they wanna use that.

'cause a lot of people like to use the magnifying lamp with the light to see. I don't like that. So that's the thing. It's like we, I give that option. I'm I, I educate them on how you need to protect your eyes. And then of course I have to train them. They're not gonna know right off the bat if they're just practicing to close their eyes.

Yep. I have all the options you need. And then. They take it from there.

Dave: I love that. 'cause I think that's the best thing, not just in optics in your situation, but I think in the whole industry, having options. 'cause the way I do it is not gonna be the way you do it.

Jen Thyrion: Right?

Dave: My preference and what's what is just easy for me might be the most difficult for you.

Jen Thyrion: Right?

Dave: This doesn't mean it's right or wrong.

Jen Thyrion: No, at all.

It

Dave: just means we're all individually different with different circumstances, backgrounds, and preferences. So I think it's great that you listed off how many you have just for the Yeah. The two of you doing it. Yep. You've got a variety of things. Uh, luckily I think that exists for the whole industry.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah. I mean, 'cause it's funny, when I started and I started training other women, I didn't even take in account that some people are gonna be wearing glasses already. Yeah. I was like, oh, yeah,

Dave: yeah.

Jen Thyrion: I'm, I'm so used to just having my eyeballs. I didn't realize before it applicants other issues. And, you know, just with the magnification, like I said, some people love that magnifying lamp that sits on your table.

That's what I always suggest to people. Try all the things. Absolute. Because, just 'cause I do it this way doesn't mean you're gonna wanna do it this way. Yep. And your eyeballs are different and everything's different. Okay. Real talk for a second. Running a business can feel overwhelming. The content marketing, social media decisions, it's a lot.

That's exactly why I created GoldLink Society. It's a space where permanent jewelers can get real support, education and tools like quarterly photos and video done for you. Templates, trainings, weekly calls, support group, and access to expert trainings who understand this industry. If you are craving clarity, competence, and community, Goldie Link Society is built for you.

You can join us anytime. Go to goldie link society.com. I can't wait to get to know you and your business. See you soon. You just got back from P gx, well, like a month ago now, which

Dave: is crazy, right?

Jen Thyrion: Yeah. What do you hear the most from permanent jewelers, I guess, as when it comes to either starting a weld or if they have questions for you?

Dave: I think it kind of depends on who the asker is. There's there. Plenty of questions from people who are brand new.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: They don't know what they don't know.

Jen Thyrion: Right.

Dave: So those questions are always fun because you get a lot of different comments that things I wouldn't even think about because again, it's just natural second nature to me.

Sure. I've been this for so long, I don't even question the things that they're asking.

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Dave: It's just a given. It's common knowledge, but it's not common. We gotta remember that.

Jen Thyrion: I gotta remember that exactly.

Dave: So there's a lot, uh, with, with just, um, you know, how do I get started the business, how do I make my first 12?

Mm-hmm. What energy do I use? How do I know what chain to buy? I mean, there's so many different questions that, that Yeah. You feel that our sales rep have to answer our, our support team. But it's also fun because if you get enough questions coming in Yeah. You kinda learn from it. You can pick up, you, you we're amassing a greater knowledge base that then we can help with the next person who calls in.

I dunno if that necessarily answers.

Dave: I think, I mean, number one, do your research, but number two, don't let that stop you. Right? Yeah. Don't get stuck in a research stage,

Jen Thyrion: like analysis paralysis, is that what they call it?

Dave: Absolutely. Yeah. The number one thing you're gonna need to do is just. Start. Yes. Do something.

Jen Thyrion: Yep.

Dave: Ask a friend, ask a local person.

Read online. Join the Facebook groups.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Dave: But more than anything, don't. Don't wait too long to start. 'cause yeah, hands-on experience is what's gonna give them the most knowledge and confidence. Skills. Yeah. To go. I think even with training, you could, you could do, you could watch and view and listen and get trained for hours, but if you don't also have the machine in front of you

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: It's not gonna help you. Right. Right. You've also gotta be having your own learning lessons. Mm-hmm. From the, from the welding. So that would be my only one thing. Like

Jen Thyrion: I know when you say that, it's almost like I have this thought as like before you become a parent and you reach, you read all these books and you try to prep as much as possible and then you have this human and you're like, oh wow.

Dave: Like,

Dave: Well, sunstone I think was, I, I'm pretty confident in this.

We had the very. First training. Yeah. We have a free video training. Um,

Jen Thyrion: that's crazy. Yeah. No one ever talks about

Dave: that. It's, it's the most in-depth, hands-on training. Focused primarily on the welding.

Jen Thyrion: Yes. Yes.

Dave: Because that's what we do. Right? Right. I may not be the expert in how to purchase chain,

Jen Thyrion: the trendy chain that's out there.

Dave: Right. That's not me. That's not me at all.

Jen Thyrion: Right.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: So we've been doing pulse arc welding, micro tag welding for longer than maybe even some of our customers and listeners have been born.

Right? Like it's been a long time. Yes. And so we understand the welding process better than anybody hands down.

Jen Thyrion: I agree.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Dave: Uh, that goes into the welding, but also the other aspects of the business.

Right. That's cool. All the optic options. Yeah. And the safety required for your eyes. Right. That's a topic we've already talked about here. Yeah. That's something we go in depth. Organizing a business, how to market, how to partner, how to source, how to manage inventory. That's all included in the training.

Mm-hmm. And many other topics. But again, those are all. Those are all good. They're not worth anything if you don't actually get a welder and start your business.

Jen Thyrion: Exactly. I was gonna say, 'cause yeah, if say you go over that training, get the free training, you're going over it and then it's Yeah, like I said, reading the book before you have the baby, you know, maybe, maybe good, you can get a little bit of, you know, uh, laying the foundation.

But until you have actually have that welder in hand and do it, and it's really still about experience, like with anything. Right.

Dave: Absolutely.

Jen Thyrion: So.

Dave: Well, it's fun too, if we take that analogy or that example one step further too. Yeah. Right. Like. You might think. You might think you know it, right? Mm-hmm. You read the book, you had a kid.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: You're just adding to it as you go. So that's what's fun.

Jen Thyrion: And I would push people to be honest. 'cause you know what? You know what one of my pet peeves is? I'll be honest. When someone does not like to weld 26 gauge and they refuse to have 26 gauge chains because they don't wanna weld it, I don't like that.

Yeah. I'm like, well, I mean, that's fine. Like I said. To each their own. But if you want to keep improving, if you wanna keep evolving, if you, we talk about competition, if you wanna be the best in your area, then maybe it's time to embrace something like that. And really, 'cause that's why what comes to my mind when it comes to experience.

'cause in the beginning, I mean, yeah, I made jewelry for years, but I didn't do welding until three years ago. Granted, a much easier with the newer impulse, I have to say, with 26 gauge. Holy. Mm-hmm. Totally. That's a game changer. Mm-hmm. But it's just practice. Like it's such practice like now I feel like I have almost.

Dave: Yeah. Well, what's fun about this, if you're seeing, and it's not necessarily 26, maybe isn't the barrier for you, but it is maybe a barrier for others.

Jen Thyrion: Sure.

Dave: I've done 34 gauge.

Jen Thyrion: 34 gauge. Really?

Dave: Yeah. Like super,

Jen Thyrion: really

Dave: super thin. Not,

Jen Thyrion: I don't even know if that

Dave: existed. Not with the, not with the impulse.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: Right. That's with our high, a high end, top of the line. 200 x.

Jen Thyrion: Wow.

Dave: But like, that's

Jen Thyrion: crazy.

Dave: Just showing again, just to, just to kind of highlight our welding knowledge and experience and capability.

Yeah. The limitations of PJ are not limitations for what we do on a normal day to day 26. I'm not scared of it at all. No.

Jen Thyrion: I mean now it's like, so that's why, when, and I get it, we all have stages. I'm not trying to say, oh, from the beginning you should be doing this. Right? I'm not saying shoulds, but also at the same time, it's, if you have been doing this for a few years and you're q keep being like, Nope, nope, nope, nope.

Dave: well, if you, if you practice it a, at a, at a 30 gauge level. 28 gauge level. Well now when that 26 customer comes in, it's biggie, right?

Because you've already stretched yourself and developed that scale at a much harder level than you can scale it back to something easy,

Jen Thyrion: right?

Dave: That's why I say PJ for us is pretty easy, right?

Jen Thyrion: And I mean, and and speaking of to that actually a little bit, 'cause I've had this a few times, the unbranded welder.

For instance, there's a lot of people, and honestly, immediate permit jewelers in my area, which they love it and that's great, but that machine doesn't do 26 gauge,

Dave: right?

Jen Thyrion: They have to send people, or actually I had a customer of mine that was trying to get a 26 gauge chain resized from them, and they couldn't do it.

So it was like, gotcha. I think as a business owner myself. It's like, I would hope that everyone wants to be the best they can be. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So it's like, man, I would hate to be turning away that customer saying, oh my God, I can't do this. Yeah. Like that would be like crushing to me.

Mm-hmm. So, I don't know, just keeping that in mind, I think for anyone's. Name, because I feel like we should embrace the 26 gauge.

Dave: I love that idea. Yeah, absolutely.

Jen Thyrion: You know?

Dave: Yeah. There's no reason to shy away. Now. Again, you have to be equipped for it.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: And if the unbranded doesn't do it well, you're not equipped.

Jen Thyrion: Sure, yeah.

Dave: But I mean, that's where the zap comes in, right?

Jen Thyrion: That

Dave: the zap, I can't build a zap for a $500 price point. Yeah. But the zap that the unbranded is. But I would, I would strongly argue and try to convince anyone that's on the fence and, and trying to get into this market and considering the unbranded at, at a $500 price point that spend a little bit more,

Jen Thyrion: yeah.

Dave: Get at least at a minimum the zap just because that gets you a USA made, you got sunstone backing it. Mm-hmm. Um, be unbranded, if I can just speak to that. I've been competing with that product for 18 years.

Jen Thyrion: Really?

Dave: That's a Chinese knockoff of the Priot tech welder, which is a dental and ortho lab welder.

Jen Thyrion: Oh, I had no

Jen Thyrion: Sure.

Dave: So yeah. People who buy the unbranded and they, they put it down at the 1% level.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Dave: Like it's not gonna fire consistent.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: It's gonna, and it's a. It's a knockoff of a very good machine.

Jen Thyrion: Right.

Dave: But then they took it and, and knocked it off, and it's not the same machine.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: But that's, that's the origin of the unbranded. Interesting. It's been around for 20 years.

Jen Thyrion: I did not know that.

Dave: Yep.

Jen Thyrion: Because I, right away, when I looked into per jewelry, I came across your guys and I think, I never looked back. I was like very, and also too, I was noticing as, again, most people saw this kind of speeding up on social media. I was noticing the brand, the, the welders that they had. And I was like, Ooh, what is that?

It said sunstone on there. And I looked it up and I was like, done. I could, because I could also, my husband's a welder, so he was able to kind of look at your company and he wanted, he wanted to gimme his opinion, and he was like, of course, amazed by these tiny welders. So he was like, this is so fun. Yes.

Do you buy back machines? Do you do that at all? Like say someone wants to upgrade, what's the warranty? Like? How, what do you offer for support?

Dave: Yeah. Just because of, I mean specifically to the unbranded, but any other brand of machines. Yeah. We would love to get those out of the industry. Really? Because I think, I mean, take your example of the, the neighboring business that offered that could, that had to turn away or redo the 26 gauge.

Yes. Right. Somebody goes in, they have it unbranded, it doesn't work. That new customer who doesn't know the industry

Jen Thyrion: mm-hmm.

Dave: All they know is that they tried, they, they, they tried a permanent jewelry bracelet and it didn't work.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: Well, now they're gonna go out and that's their experience. That's what they're gonna share.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: Like having the unbranded is gonna hurt the industry. Yeah. With bad experiences and bad touch points.

Jen Thyrion: True.

Jen Thyrion: Did you guys think it was gonna be a fidget spinner?

Dave: We, people said it was a trend. And, and could it be, it could have been a fidget spinner mm-hmm. But that we sunstone did not want that 'cause.

Jen Thyrion: Right.

Dave: It's, it's, there's value and there's an experience that, that comes with pj.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: And so we've done a lot of efforts.

We can speak to. To maintain it and to get traction and grow it so it didn't just become a little blip here and there.

Jen Thyrion: Right

Dave: here now and gone tomorrow. Yeah. Getting rid of the unbranded to, to kind of clear the, any negative experience and situation. It's worth it for us to buy them back even at a loss, just so that they're out of the industry.

They're out of the hands of, of artists.

Jen Thyrion: Oh, so you even buy back those machines?

Dave: I'll buy, I'll buy back. I'll buy

Jen Thyrion: brand. No, really? I, I was kind of concerning your machines. Okay. So

Dave: that one, but no, I'll tell you, I've dumpster.

Jen Thyrion: No.

Dave: Hundreds of you have a little,

Dave: Yeah.

Jen Thyrion: Oh my gosh, I didn't know that.

Dave: So we'll take it. Unbranded. We'll take a, a competitor. We'll, of course. Take ours.

Jen Thyrion: Yes. Yeah,

Dave: absolutely. Yeah. Call in, talk to a sales rep. Okay. We've got a trade program.

Jen Thyrion: Oh,

Dave: cool. And we will, yeah, we'll buy back.

Jen Thyrion: What is the, some people that warranty say something happens to your machine, what happens there?

Just,

Dave: yeah. We have a three year warranty that covers the machine.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: And then outside of that, we have a, I mean, if something goes bad outside of warranty, we'll do it at cost.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: You know, if it's, if it's a a hundred dollars component,

Jen Thyrion: sure.

Dave: I'll charge you the a hundred dollars for the component. Okay.

And swap it out, fix it, and, and off you go. We don't really have a, you know, much need to make money off of that part of the business. Sure. We've got enough welder sales up front that,

Jen Thyrion: yeah.

Dave: That's, that's how we sustain.

Jen Thyrion: Cool.

Dave: We do have a circle plan.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: Which, uh, gives you more of a, I don't wanna, I don't wanna call it an extended warranty.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Jen Thyrion: Circle plan. I had actually heard about that. That's, I've heard good things about that actually.

Dave: Yeah. It's a little monthly fee, uh, if something goes down. The biggest benefit to it is if something goes down. Then we ship out a loaner. Oh, so that you're not ever down. Right.

Jen Thyrion: Nice.

Dave: Your machine went down. I'm only gonna, it's in, it's covered in warranty or outside of warranty.

If it goes down and I need to swap out that a hundred dollars component, for example. Mm-hmm. What are you doing during the two days it takes to get me the two days it takes for me to fix it. The two days for it to get back to you. You're out six days. If you call me up your circle member. And I determined that we need to send it in for a repair.

Mm-hmm. That same day we'll ship you out a loaner. Okay. So you use the loaner while we're doing that repair job.

That's

Dave: awesome. And then you cross ship it back once it's fixed, so you're not down anytime.

Jen Thyrion: Right.

Dave: That's probably the biggest, uh, use case, why somebody should, could and should consider.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: Among the other, I dunno, there's eight or nine different features that are included.

Jen Thyrion: Oh, sweet. Okay. Cool. Let's talk argon.

Dave: Mm-hmm.

Jen Thyrion: So is it necessary,

Jen Thyrion: That's a, that's a really, like

Dave: It is not required.

Jen Thyrion: It's not required. Right.

Dave: The welder will function. The arc will fire the, the metals will weld and melt.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: With or without argonne.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: Now, each one of those scenarios is better with Argonne.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: Your arc will form so much easier with Arna.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Dave: Your arc will burn. So much better with Argonne because it's tripping the Argonne, the, the electrons in the Argonne much easier than it does in oxygen or just regular air.

Okay. So you get a easier to fire, you get a better formation, more consistent, and then the weld puddle is more cleaner, shinier strong.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: So every aspect of your experience gets better with Argonne now. People can argue that, oh, I don't need it. I don't use it, and everything's fine. That's great.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: If you ask my own personal, I will always use orga.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: Well, it's also gonna splash less onto the electrode.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm. Good. Okay.

Dave: And a clean, sharp electrode will give you a better, a better weld every time too. Exactly. So it's almost this, if you don't use Argonne, everything starts to degrade and spiral outward. There you go. Spiral downward.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: With Argonne, you maintain, uh, the good steak for much longer.

Jen Thyrion: That's awesome. Okay. So. Down to the basics, what is Argonne and what does it do for a weld? Because honestly, this is so funny. So when I'm out with my welder and I have especially like some someone's husband being like, this machine's so cool. Like how does it work? Like what kind of welding is it? I'm like, all I know is I touch this to this and I go like this and it welds it.

I'm like, don't ask me how it works. So like, just so we know, what is argon and why is it like, what does it do for the weld?

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Dave: For me, yeah.

And, uh, yeah, these things all just come secondhand nature to me.

Jen Thyrion: Right.

Dave: Okay. So we are working with a micro TIG welder.

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Dave: Okay. That's the, that's the class

Jen Thyrion: TIG welding

Dave: TIG we're doing

Jen Thyrion: because there's different welding,

Dave: make welding, stick welding, we are doing TIG welding T and TIG stands for tungsten inert gas.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: Tig.

Jen Thyrion: Tig.

Dave: So the tungsten is the electrode. Our ton, our electrodes are made outta tungsten.

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Dave: Uh, it's got a very high melting temperature. It's got a very, uh, strong, durable con uh, composition.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: Inner gas argon is an inner gas. Inner gases are, they're non flammable, they're non explosive. They're just, uh, stable.

And what Argon does specifically is it's heavier. Then oxygen and the other, uh, gases in the air that we're already breathing.

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Jen Thyrion: mm-hmm.

Dave: Out the stylus cone, uh, surrounding the needle. Or the electrode, the tungsten electrode. And then the electrode pulls back fires while it's surrounded in the gas. Then the weld stops. The argon is still flowing, and then it turns off and then the weld process is done. Okay, so the arc happens in a cloud of gas the entire time.

Jen Thyrion: Interesting. Okay.

Dave: And it dis, it displaces oxygen. Uhhuh, uh, see it's only argon. The arc happens in argon forms. Forms and burn strong. The, the metals go liquid in a protected argon state, they solidify in a protected argon state. Mm-hmm. And then it turns off. Okay. So that's where argon. So it's funny if, it's funny when people consider doing.

TIG welding.

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Dave: Like tungsten inner gas. Welding without

Jen Thyrion: other gas. Without like gas. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. I did not know that. And it's so funny, my, my husband's probably said that a million times, like TIG Weld, but I never knew exactly what that was. Yeah. Okay.

Dave: Yeah. So is it necessary? No.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah,

like

Yes, it does. But if you ask me my own personal opinion,

Jen Thyrion: sure.

Dave: I would never consider welding without Argonne unless it's, I'm in a pinch. Right? Right. If I need to make a weld and I don't have Argonne, yes, make a weld

Jen Thyrion: for sure.

Dave: But again, it goes back to the industry. If you want your business to survive long term, if you want the industry to survive long term.

Give the customer the best experience possible.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: If you don't use argon and it's dark and it's dirty and it's misfiring. Mm-hmm. Like that customer, you know, you can get it in in, in three or four or five or even eight welds.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: But that customer, if that's the first time they're seeing it and they're watching it spark eight times

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Dave: And you're like, oh, lemme try again. Oh, lemme try again. Oh, lemme try again. Like, that's not gonna build them up.

Jen Thyrion: Right,

Dave: right. What you want is to have the perfect setup, perfect conditions, and to do it in a single shot.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: So set yourself up to give the best possible experience that's good for you as a business.

Jen Thyrion: Yep.

Dave: For happy customers, but for the industry as well.

Dave: I don't, just kidding.

Jen Thyrion: And then it was like over time, 'cause you kept hearing like, oh my God, I'll never go back. I started using it. And then you're like, okay. Like of course as I know and I'm getting more comp, my welding, I wanna get, I wanna get as best as I can get. And I think as a business owner, if we wanna be sustainable, I, we want to sustain this industry.

I mean, I think taking those steps as smart, so even if you're not, but also when I think you say argon gas, it's scary. Like people are like, what? I'm gonna bring this like tank with me everywhere. Like, is it gonna, like you said, flammable blow up or like. Is there anything you need to be aware of with Argonne or is it, you know, just handling it?

Because a lot of people listening are totally mobile. It's very mostly common, I feel.

Dave: Yep. So there is some dangers with the compressed gas. Okay. Right. The tank. You know, they do look scary. The scariest thing that could happen with Argonne is a tips and the valve. Breaks, and then that high pressure gas leaves out and that becomes then a propellant.

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Dave: And you've got a, a missile.

Jen Thyrion: Yep.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: If you have an argon bottle, uh, strap it to something sturdy.

Mm-hmm. So it doesn't want to tip. That's the, that's probably the biggest thing is protecting that thing. If you get your gas from sunstone, our tanks have a cap that screws on.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Dave: So that it's safe for transportation.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: You won't damage or hit the valve, you know, potentially, you know, turn it into a, a, a missile.

Okay. So look for that. You know, I just take caution, strap it when, when it's installed, strap it so it doesn't tip. But other than that. The only other thing that could happen with Argonne, as I mentioned, it's heavier than air.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: So if you're welding in a hole and the Argonne slowly fills up the hole, well now you're breathing Argonne, not oxygen, and you die.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: But I mean, that's a, that's an extreme case. Don't weld in a hole. Don't weld. Yeah. In a hole with no ventilation. Right. Just

Jen Thyrion: yeah. Don't do that.

That's fine because there's enough. Flow or it gets kicked up. Right. Open the window. That would be the only thing, right? If you're in a basement, you're in a low point. But no, like I said, even then that gets circulated through your

Jen Thyrion: Right.

Dave: Your ventilation systems. That's true. Open window.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Dave: There's really not, not any issues.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah. What happens if you don't have enough argon or you have too much? Like if with your, you know, the regulator?

Dave: Yeah. Great question. At the regulator, you control how much that argonne is flowing and more so. How much, how much volume, but also how much speed.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: Um, if it's turned up too fast that Argonne is gonna cause turbulence mm-hmm.

And it's going to introduce oxygen into the, the cloud of Argonne, let's say.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: So you barely, regardless of what regulator you get, you wanna barely open the regulator you want Just a little bit.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: Uh, if you hear it like whooshing out, it's too much.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: You just want a little soft

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: Right. Too much.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm.

Dave: To the electrode. But I mean, that's only a quarter inch or less.

So

Jen Thyrion: true.

Dave: I don't think too little is ever, ever an issue.

Okay.

Dave: So that should be easy. Just regulate it.

Jen Thyrion: Well, is there anything new in the works or things you hear about when it comes to the welding machines that you guys, are you like always working to see what, you know, develop the impulse or you know, working on the next model?

Or is there anything?

Dave: Great question. Yeah, we're always working.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: Um. But I will say right now, as of today,

Jen Thyrion: yeah.

Dave: We've recently relaunched and enhanced all of our PJ boilers.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: So now is a great time to buy. You're at the beginning of a lifecycle.

Jen Thyrion: Awesome.

Dave: Right? You're not gonna buy something today and tomorrow I'm gonna come out with the next version or Right.

You're like, what do I do? It's

Jen Thyrion: like the iPhone. You're like, darn it.

Dave: Yeah. So right now is a, right now there's probably not a better time. Okay. Zap plus two is brand new. Impulse is brand new.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Jen Thyrion: Sweet.

Dave: Uh, like I said, the m impulse, the first original m impulse lasted eight, nine years.

Jen Thyrion: Yes, yes.

Dave: With enhancements. But the core design didn't change.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: You're at a brand new design right now, so it's a great time to, to make the, make the step and make a purchase.

Jen Thyrion: So is it ever the stylist gonna come from the front?

Dave: We've got right now. Well, now you're making me think about my product. No, right now they're both off the back.

Right. Is the, is

Jen Thyrion: the new one.

Dave: The impulse is off the front.

Jen Thyrion: It's off the front.

Dave: Mm-hmm.

Jen Thyrion: How do I not know this?

Dave: I remember this right?

Jen Thyrion: No, I don't feel bad. Um, 'cause Okay, well I have the one that's still coming out the back.

Dave: It's the impulse. The impulse. The first one. It was hardwired.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: Uh, meaning like transporting was always tricky, right?

Yeah. Because cable stylus is always connected to your machine.

Jen Thyrion: Yes.

Dave: We got rid of that. So now all of our PJ welders have a detachable stylus. Oh. So it's much more transport friendly. Interesting. Take the Tys off, put the box in its case and, and away. You

Jen Thyrion: okay. I do not have that model.

Dave: You get that? We gotta,

Jen Thyrion: I know.

Dave: Mm-hmm.

Jen Thyrion: You know?

Dave: Yeah.

Jen Thyrion: Is just where that comes from. Cool. Yeah. So good job. Alright, good. And then, you know, having a longer cord.

Dave: We've done that. All of ours are now 72 inches.

Jen Thyrion: Okay.

Dave: So, so,

Jen Thyrion: alright.

Dave: Uh, anklets, uh, necklaces, that was the longer arter reach are, are good.

Same with the, the eclipse. The eclipse comes with that longer svu. Okay. Or longer cable length as well. So that. You can get off the top of the table down to wherever, wherever it is, the welds being happen.

Jen Thyrion: So cool. So

Dave: yeah.

Jen Thyrion: Alright, well then, yeah, you got it. Yeah. This is the model to get then because it has the things I would've changed and now it's changed.

Dave: We'll check it that out after.

Jen Thyrion: Okay. So we, yeah, I wanna see one. I should have, I feel like I, I went to the welding lab, but I obviously must have not noticed these things, but anyway. Thank you so much. All right. Anything else you wanna share and close off with and share with the permanent jewelry?

Dave: No, just super excited to be included on the podcast.

Yeah. Uh, just know that Sunstone is here for the, you know, the long term of pj.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: I read a, a newspaper thing where it says, you know, diamonds are forever. That's kind of the tagline in the jewelry industry.

What I'm excited for is, is PJ being forever too?

Jen Thyrion: Yeah.

Dave: And so everything we're doing, just know the sunstone is at the core, really trying to maintain and grow the industry through, not only through our welders or through the training that you, that you mentioned. Mm-hmm. You know, we've got chain, we've got accessories, we're always innovating.

Jen Thyrion: Yep.

Dave: And beyond that, we've started the PGA, the Association for Prima Jewelers.

Jen Thyrion: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Dave: Trying to get that to be, uh, an accredited and recognized industry. And on top of that, the PJX, which you mentioned, we just were there a month ago, you know, an expo and a conference for permanent jewelry artists to come together.

Jen Thyrion: Speaking of industry standards, you know, I think that that's what's so smart about PJX too is just keeping this industry elevated and having kind of an. Again, an industry standard of, you know, just knowledge and professionalism and not, you know, just education as this evolves because I can't, I've been to every PJX and what a difference from the first one, even to the last one.

Like a, how many, you know, just the education, but not only just. In the probate joy world in general. Right? Like how much is offered and how it's evolved has been.

Dave: Yeah.

Jen Thyrion: Amazing. So, yeah.

Dave: Well, it's been fun. It's been really fun. It's been fun the last three, four years, and it'll be fun for the next,

Jen Thyrion: I know,

Dave: three, four plus years.

It's

Jen Thyrion: gonna be cool to see where it goes. Well, thank you for your time.

Dave: No, I appreciate the, uh, the invitation to, to do us with you.

Jen Thyrion: Yes, for sure. All right. See you soon. Well, how do you feel? I hope you found value in today's episode and you walk away feeling inspired. I would love to hear from you. Let's link up.