Shownotes
In this episode, the Lesa Koski welcomes Ed Vargo, co-founder and president of Burning River Advisory Group, to discuss financial empowerment for women. Highlighting Ed's personal journey, where his Korean immigrant mother faced financial struggles after a divorce, Ed shares his passion for helping women through financial coaching and wealth management. The conversation explores why discussing money can be challenging for women and offers insights into raising financially educated children. Covering topics such as loss aversion, the importance of financial literacy, and encouraging open discussions about money within families, this episode is a resourceful guide for women aiming to gain financial independence and knowledge. The episode also touches on Ed's initiatives, including Enlighten Her, designed to assist women in financial matters, especially during life transitions like divorce.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:49 Ed Vargo's Background and Mission
04:22 Personal Story: Ed's Mother and Financial Struggles
11:49 Challenges Women Face with Finances
18:32 Raising Financially Educated Kids
32:37 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
@saddleuplive
https://linktr.ee/LesaKoski
Ed Vargo is the Co-Founder and CEO of Burning River Advisory Group and EnlightenHer, a community focused on financial mentorship for women. With over 20 years in financial services, Ed helps women navigate long-term financial planning for all life stages, including retirement, college, and transitions related to divorce or death. His dedication is personal; inspired by his mother’s financial struggles after his parents' divorce, Ed is committed to empowering women to confidently manage their finances and avoid similar hardships. He is a member of the Financial Planning Association® and the Society of Financial Service Professionals. Ed is married with five daughters, ages 18-24, whom he has raised to be financially empowered young women!
Transcripts
Welcome listeners.
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I am extremely excited
to have you here today.
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And I have somebody that I've just
met and I told his name is Ed Vargo.
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He is the co founder and president
of Burning River Advisory Group.
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And I'm going to be honest, Ed,
when I was like, I was working.
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So here's the deal.
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I didn't tell Ed I'm sitting here in
a flannel shirt and my baseball cap.
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Because my listeners know I'm trying
to grandma more and work less.
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So I had a little workout class.
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I got to go clean a
horse stall after this.
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So I'm like, well, I can either
skip the workout class or, you
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know, I'll make myself look good or
I'm going to show up in flannels.
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And so I'm sure Ed got on this
column was like, who is this woman?
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But I promise we'll be a
little bit professional.
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But the reason I'm excited to have Ed
here is we're going to talk about things,
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but I feel like Ed has a little bit of
a twist, um, because he is devoted to
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helping women and he's going to share his
authentic story as to why, but I thought
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this is going to be a great conversation
for both my doing divorce different
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podcast and my saddle up live podcast.
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So usually I do two different
interviews, but I'm not doing that today.
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This is going to air on both podcasts
and we're going to talk about, um,
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why it's so difficult to talk about
money with our spouses or otherwise.
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And how can we remove the emotional
responses and add, I jump in because I
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have emotional responses to money and
I think I got a little better about it.
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So I'm going to.
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I want to talk to you about that.
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And then he's going to give us some quick
little tips and tools about finances.
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And finally, what we're all interested
in, whether we're getting divorced or
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we're at this stage of our lives is
how to raise financially educated kids.
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And I've got two that are fully grown.
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I think I did okay.
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That baby one, that's.
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Pulling up the rear who's out in college.
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I don't know if I did as good with her.
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So, Ed, I think you're going to
be a wealth of information, but
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I'm excited to have you here.
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I'm excited to get to know you better.
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And I really know that the listeners are
going to be really interested to hear your
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story as to what led you to help women.
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Deal with finances.
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Welcome.
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Oh, I have to say one other
thing that excited me.
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He's got five girls He's
a dad of five girls.
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So you gotta love a guy like that.
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So ad welcome.
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Thanks for being here
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Well, thank you.
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Lisa.
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I appreciate you having me on I think
that's what most people when they
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hear my story or the start of my story
It's like you have five daughters.
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I mean, is that for real?
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And they're really the love of my life.
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I mean, they're all older now They're
between the ages of 19 and 25.
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So i'm they're not old but They'll kind of
step some are stepping into adulthood and
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kind of finding their way on their own.
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And of course, some are
still tethered to the nest.
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But my story as far as why I've focused
my attention and my businesses, I actually
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have two businesses, burning river
advisory group, as you mentioned, that
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you're a traditional wealth management
business, kind of what you would think for
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most financial advisors with the twist.
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And that we are unique and we predominate
work with women led households, either
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single women or women led households.
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And in our industry, that is very
much the exception and not the rule.
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So there's a story behind that.
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And it dovetails into a new
company that we've started
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called enlighten her, which is.
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Also a financial company, but
more financial coaching versus
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traditional financial advice.
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So it's taken the learnings that I've
garnered over the past almost 25 years
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in personal finance and bringing it to
the masses, so to speak, because as a
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financial advisor, we can only work with
a relatively small number of people.
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People, but with enlighten her, we're
going to be able to reach out on a much
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broader scale and help those, whether
you're a multimillionaire or just starting
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out, we can find a way to help women.
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And that's really where my story starts
when it comes to working with women.
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So I think of it like the
tale of two cities, right?
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So I have my daughters today and
much of what I do revolves around
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helping them, putting them in the best
possible position to go out into the
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world, be good humans, do good things.
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And we're trying to do our part.
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My wife and I, in terms of raising.
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Um, good humans, right?
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Just good people.
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And my story originally though,
it starts with my mother.
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And so my mom is an
immigrant from South Korea.
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My father and her met
during the Vietnam war.
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He was stationed in Korea.
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They met there, got married.
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And a little bit of the American dream
at the start of this relationship
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came back to the United States and
proceeded to have four children.
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But it didn't quite go so well.
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So the relationship soured and they
ended up getting a divorce and that's
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the, the other side of this tale of two
cities, because my mom, unfortunately,
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because of, for many reasons, one, a
language barrier, cultural barrier,
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an economic barrier, she was not able
to maintain custody of us children.
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So it was an anomaly in the sense that, I
mean, divorce wasn't quite so common back
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then and my father ended up raising us.
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And my mom really didn't have, uh, she
didn't have any options quite frankly.
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And that's where I look at this.
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And I think of that as
a travesty, like my mom.
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I had to give up her four children
because she felt that she couldn't
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raise them because she didn't
have the financial means to do so.
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And so as I pivot, you know, I
carry that with me throughout.
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I didn't realize how much of
an impact it would have on my
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life as I got further into it.
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But I've carried that forward into a
lot of the divorce work that we do.
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Because we see a lot of women who come
into our, we're obviously a business
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that focuses on women who are going
through a difficult time like divorce.
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And I just never want to see a woman,
really anyone, but a woman in this case,
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have to face what my mom faced, having to
make real life decisions about what to do.
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Whether they have their kids
with them or not, because in this
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case of a financial issue, so,
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Lesa Koski: Okay.
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So see, I knew that I would love
talking to you and I love it
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when people go through something
difficult and then they help others.
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You're honoring your mom.
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You know, by doing this work and on this
show, I often, I'm getting teary eyed, but
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I, I do often, um, really want to comfort
women so that they know if you're a stay
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at home mom and haven't been working for
a while, I don't want them to be afraid
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if they're, Facing divorce and it's so
it's interesting because what I've said
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in the past is there are things that can
help you like spousal maintenance and But
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then I think of your poor mom years ago,
and I am hoping that that story would be
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different today For your mom that if she
were in that predicament today Well for
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one she could go to someone like you for
some support, but I would hope that You
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The legal system would support that more.
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Are you finding that?
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I actually have no idea because
this is kind of a new topic.
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I just thought, Oh no,
you're going to be safe.
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You're going to get spousal maintenance
for at least a period of time until
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you can afford to do this on your own.
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Your mom didn't have that.
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And she, I can't imagine
how that was for her.
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I, you know, you know how much
you love your children and then
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to be alone in this country.
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I mean, did she lose
all connection with you?
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Was she able to still connect
with you or how did that all work?
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Yeah, it was difficult on her of course,
and difficult on this as kids, because I
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mean, I might've, I don't really exactly
know how old I was and that may sound
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strange, but just how these things happen
and how life unfolds, it doesn't happen
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like in very definitive terms, right?
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So there was a separation.
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where we just thought she was staying
at a friend's for a long time and that
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became a finalized divorce and that
happened over a number of years so
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it's it was tough on us because we were
told one thing right and i'm sure our
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parents were trying to protect us and
my mom is very traditional You know, the
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Korean culture is very different than
the culture here in the United States.
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And that was part of the barriers
to her, her willingness or her
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understanding of what her options were.
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So, you know, my mom, um, in her
mind was like, she felt like,
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well, I can't take care of them.
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I would be doing them a disservice
by trying to have them at home.
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You know, I would be harming them.
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by keeping them, right?
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You can, you can understand
a mom thinking like that.
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And it was tough on us too, because
again, we really didn't know, you
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know, exactly what was going on.
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So to answer your question about how it
unfolded, there was a bit of a time where
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I don't think we were estranged, but
where we didn't have a lot of contact.
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There's four kids, you know,
so each of us took a different
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amount of time to reconnect.
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And that was born out of our own
understanding of the experience
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and how we felt and now I'll
won't go through all the details.
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It just took me longer to get over it.
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I'll say that.
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And eventually we did.
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And then we mended and
things are great now.
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Um, we have a great relationship.
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But, uh, it was a very difficult
time going through that.
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And so, today, could that happen?
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I would say yes.
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I would say yes.
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Yeah, it's possible because what
they're in the divorce arena, there
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isn't somebody looking out for you.
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There's no one coming and guiding
you and taking you by the hand and
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saying, Hey, here's how this works.
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Now we have the internet, you have
Google, we have a lot of, we're
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more socially connected, right?
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So we can go out and
find more information.
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But if somebody was faced with a similar
situation, a language barrier, my mother
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couldn't read the language, couldn't write
the language, had never, has never driven
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a car, um, since she was facing a lot.
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And so, yes, that could happen today.
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I think it's, it's
certainly far less likely.
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There are far more resources
available and socially there
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are more resources available.
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So I think that that exact
scenario happening in that way is.
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far less likely.
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That said, there's still a major barrier
when it comes to the understanding
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of how the divorce process works.
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And there is a lot of misinformation
or a misunderstanding.
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And again, there is no entity that's
going to come in and save the day.
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The court system's not going
to come in and say, Oh no,
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you're getting an unfair deal.
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Right.
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That's not really how it works.
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Right.
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And so, you know, one of my key messages
in working with women, whether you're
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going through divorce, just starting
out as one of my girls might be stepping
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into the professional workforce or
anywhere, anywhere in between is you
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really have to advocate for yourself.
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You can't be passive.
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You can't expect others
to do or take care of you.
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And I've worked in my relationship
with my wife at the fairly
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traditional household right now.
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My wife doesn't work outside the home.
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She was a NICU nurse for a long time.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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You know, five kids in six
and a half years, you know,
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enough to take care of at home.
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So she was certainly working in the home.
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But it's really important for whether
you're in that situation or you're on the
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front lines in the primary breadwinner,
you really do have to advocate for
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yourself and start to get educated
about how the financial world works.
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You don't have to be a whiz, you
don't have to know the ins and outs,
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you don't have to be great at math.
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You know, there's a lot of things,
a lot of thoughts that sort
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of self limiting beliefs that.
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You know women have when it comes to
money that holds them back And some some
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guys, you know, a lot of men don't have
those same self limiting beliefs whether
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they're competent or not They're just
some things that um the way men think
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about money allow them to step Forward
where a lot of women are just standing on
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the sidelines or even stepping backward.
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Lesa Koski: Yep Okay, so that
kind of brings us to the first
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question Why, why is that?
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Why is it difficult for
women to talk about money?
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Like it is, it's getting better.
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I've been married almost 33
years and it's finally starting
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to get a little bit better.
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And I'm going to go a little bit
deeper as we keep going, but why is
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it so hard for women to talk about?
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You know that I don't think
there's a one right answer to that.
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It's a multitude of things.
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Certainly there is a.
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Sort of just how you were raised kind
of idea right now that is changing
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slowly, but surely, but it doesn't,
and it doesn't account for everything,
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but we learned from our parents, right?
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And so if you're not having
conversations at home around money.
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It's very much unlikely that your
children are going to start to have
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those conversations and particularly
for girls or for women and men tend
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to talk about morning that more more
about money naturally than women do.
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And so some of the studies out there have
shown that in general, this is a broad,
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you know, painting with broad strokes.
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So just take that into account.
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Men have a tendency to be to gravitate
towards things and women have a tendency
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to gravitate towards relationships.
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there's a lot of male engineers
and there's a lot of female nurses.
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And so that natural tendency
and money is a thing.
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So talking to my girls, talking to
my wife, talking to other females
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and women clients, they don't
gravitate toward the money as much
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as their male counterparts do.
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So.
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Yeah, I think it's an interesting,
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Lesa Koski: it's interesting because
I just had a little light bulb moment.
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I was going to ask you a question
about this, but it is so true what
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you just said, because I think
about my childhood and I know
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that my father did his very best.
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He really wanted us to
understand finances.
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And sometimes I almost think
it's harder when we were.
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Fairly well off, not super well,
you know, just kind of, but never
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was a hard, you know, money wasn't
hard to come by where my husband's
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family, it was harder to come by.
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And he learned about finances naturally.
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Like, you know, I've got to work for this.
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I don't want my dad to spend the money
that he needs for groceries for this,
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where I knew that my dad was saying,
you need to pay for your own college.
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Um, because he wanted me to understand.
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And when I was, I think I was 12
years old, my dad had this plan.
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I don't know where he learned it,
but it was, he was going to give
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us a, a certain amount of money.
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My brother who was two years
older and myself, and it
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was a pretty good allowance.
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And then we were to go and take
care of everything that we needed.
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So at 12 years old, I would buy
whatever I needed for like school
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clothes and, and I had a, an allowance,
but like if I ran out of money, I
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couldn't go to a movie with friends.
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Right.
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I mean, that was how he was.
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So my brother was.
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He was so excited about it.
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Didn't think twice.
283
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And I was like, I don't
want to do that, you know?
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And I never said anything because I was
very obedient and I would never have
285
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said that to my dad, which probably is
an issue too, because if I could have
286
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just told him how I felt, but it scared
me and I think it actually made me.
287
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Look away from it.
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And like I survived, I paid for college.
289
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I lived off a bag of potatoes.
290
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I'd rather buy an outfit than food.
291
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You know, I mean, I just, I figured
it out, but I never really healed
292
00:15:17,785 --> 00:15:22,324
that, the way that I felt about it
emotionally, where I like wanted
293
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to run away from it a little bit.
294
00:15:24,185 --> 00:15:28,395
And here you have the daughter and
the son both reacting completely
295
00:15:28,395 --> 00:15:30,315
differently to the exact same situation.
296
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Right.
297
00:15:31,755 --> 00:15:32,965
It is interesting, right?
298
00:15:32,965 --> 00:15:36,095
So there are some societal things
and I think there's some nature
299
00:15:36,095 --> 00:15:40,175
and nurture things and there again,
there's been plenty of studies in the,
300
00:15:40,214 --> 00:15:42,014
in the world of behavioral finance.
301
00:15:42,334 --> 00:15:45,975
I won't step too much into this space
because it's a, it's a big subject,
302
00:15:45,985 --> 00:15:48,435
but it talks about like, why do.
303
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:54,490
The premises is like why do smart,
let's say intelligent, educated,
304
00:15:54,530 --> 00:15:57,860
affluent people make the same mistakes
as those who are less affluent,
305
00:15:57,860 --> 00:16:00,000
less intelligent or less educated.
306
00:16:00,059 --> 00:16:02,640
You would think that the
fourth first group would make
307
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patently better decisions.
308
00:16:04,540 --> 00:16:08,809
And what they found behaviorally is that
we're all kind of subjected to these
309
00:16:08,810 --> 00:16:14,270
behavioral or cognitive biases, which
gets into the male female sort of dynamic.
310
00:16:14,380 --> 00:16:17,499
So as an example, there is a
concept called loss aversion.
311
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And it's just how.
312
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Much do you fear losing?
313
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Right?
314
00:16:21,139 --> 00:16:26,719
So all of us, male and female are
hardwired where losses affect us to
315
00:16:26,719 --> 00:16:29,010
a greater degree than gains, right?
316
00:16:29,050 --> 00:16:32,819
That's why when the let's say that when
you lose money, it feels much worse
317
00:16:32,819 --> 00:16:34,920
than if you were gained the same amount.
318
00:16:35,730 --> 00:16:36,530
So I'll give an example.
319
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Let's say that I said, Hey, I want
to bet 100 heads or tails heads.
320
00:16:40,589 --> 00:16:41,859
You went 100 bucks tails.
321
00:16:41,899 --> 00:16:42,829
I went 100 bucks.
322
00:16:43,569 --> 00:16:48,479
And what happens is in order for somebody,
the average person to take that bet.
323
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I would have to pay them 200 if
they won, and they would only
324
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:55,990
have to pay me 100 if they lost.
325
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:56,189
Gotcha.
326
00:16:57,010 --> 00:17:00,990
So, we feel, even though it's the same
odds, and we have the exact same odds,
327
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:06,109
50 50, but I have to compensate you
to two times the degree to get you
328
00:17:06,109 --> 00:17:09,910
to take that bet, and that's because
we're fear of, we're more fearful of
329
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losing money than we are gaining it.
330
00:17:12,704 --> 00:17:19,444
And that psychological trait carries
forward in women more so than men.
331
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Women are typically more
loss averse than men are.
332
00:17:23,324 --> 00:17:27,733
And so that's not just when it comes to
money, it's kind of a personality trait.
333
00:17:28,503 --> 00:17:32,385
And so we see this manifest itself in
the financial realm in a number of ways.
334
00:17:32,385 --> 00:17:35,755
It could be men are more willing
to take risk in the stock market.
335
00:17:36,055 --> 00:17:38,225
Then women are, we find
that to be the case.
336
00:17:38,625 --> 00:17:42,615
We find that men are more willing
to say, Oh, I'll apply for that job.
337
00:17:42,615 --> 00:17:44,995
Or I'll put my head through my head
in the ring for that job promotion.
338
00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:47,960
Even though they may not be ready for it.
339
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,210
Whereas a woman might look
at that and say, well, I'm
340
00:17:51,210 --> 00:17:52,470
not quite ready for that yet.
341
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:53,320
I don't want to do that.
342
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,220
I want to just wait until I get ready.
343
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:58,179
And then the guy's kind of throwing, you
know, caution to the wind and saying,
344
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Hey, I'm throwing my hat in the ring.
345
00:17:59,459 --> 00:18:01,850
And sometimes they get that job, you know?
346
00:18:01,870 --> 00:18:03,559
So there is some of that.
347
00:18:03,910 --> 00:18:09,030
Built into our sort of the fabric of
who we are And if we understand that we
348
00:18:09,030 --> 00:18:12,880
can work to overcome those barriers and
there's plenty of you know Cognitive
349
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,009
biases that affect males in a way.
350
00:18:15,009 --> 00:18:19,269
That's not so positive Um, the key is
really just to understand what those
351
00:18:19,269 --> 00:18:24,080
are And so when I look at my girls
when i'm trying to do and raising
352
00:18:24,090 --> 00:18:29,150
them and instilling The proper money
mindset and I I don't think he asked
353
00:18:29,150 --> 00:18:31,849
me this question, but i'll since
i'm going down this path Yeah, yeah.
354
00:18:31,849 --> 00:18:32,269
Lesa Koski: Yeah,
355
00:18:32,540 --> 00:18:35,965
i'll just walk down it You But I think
a lot of women, mothers, want to know,
356
00:18:35,975 --> 00:18:38,344
well, how do we raise smart kids?
357
00:18:38,344 --> 00:18:43,144
Like, I think, what I find with
a lot of, say, women in their 40s
358
00:18:43,144 --> 00:18:45,144
and 50s, or even 30s, 40s, and 50s.
359
00:18:45,885 --> 00:18:49,715
But if you're a little bit older, 14, 15,
certainly into your 60s, you look back
360
00:18:49,715 --> 00:18:53,345
on your life and you're saying, gosh, if
I only knew then what I knew now about
361
00:18:53,345 --> 00:18:55,075
money, I would do things differently.
362
00:18:55,635 --> 00:18:59,504
And the whole, the company, Enlightener,
the whole idea, the genesis behind
363
00:18:59,504 --> 00:19:01,835
that idea came from that thought.
364
00:19:02,474 --> 00:19:05,875
How do we have the
greatest impact on women?
365
00:19:07,020 --> 00:19:10,810
For future generations and we need
to get to them earlier in life if I
366
00:19:10,810 --> 00:19:15,340
can get my girls to understand money
At least the fund the foundation.
367
00:19:15,349 --> 00:19:17,710
They don't have to be a whiz at it
Just the foundation the fundamentals
368
00:19:17,740 --> 00:19:25,120
of money start to make good decisions
at 18 19 22 24 And not make the big
369
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:29,550
mistakes that a lot of us have made
learn the hard way That's going to
370
00:19:29,550 --> 00:19:31,200
put them on solid foundation, right?
371
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,929
They're going to be able to move forward
and then they're going to be able to
372
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,185
because women are very social You And so
they can start and we have to foster this.
373
00:19:39,185 --> 00:19:42,065
I think this is definitely a part of
that barrier that you talked about.
374
00:19:42,525 --> 00:19:44,275
Um, and it's not talking about money.
375
00:19:44,305 --> 00:19:47,745
We need to foster this idea that
it's okay to talk about money.
376
00:19:48,295 --> 00:19:49,695
It shouldn't be taboo.
377
00:19:49,725 --> 00:19:51,144
It should be just like anything else.
378
00:19:51,434 --> 00:19:54,014
In fact, money is one of the
most important resources.
379
00:19:54,035 --> 00:19:57,544
I think it's the most valuable
personal resource that you own,
380
00:19:57,934 --> 00:20:01,225
that you have access to, because
it touches everything in your life.
381
00:20:02,165 --> 00:20:04,524
It doesn't mean you have to have
a lot of money, but you have to
382
00:20:04,524 --> 00:20:05,925
be smart and do good with it.
383
00:20:05,925 --> 00:20:10,654
And the better you are dealing with your
money, it has a multiplicative effect
384
00:20:11,284 --> 00:20:15,164
on your life and it can enhance all
kinds of things in good and bad ways.
385
00:20:16,325 --> 00:20:18,635
Lesa Koski: And I have to say
another light bulb moment.
386
00:20:18,635 --> 00:20:20,184
This is very healing for me.
387
00:20:20,245 --> 00:20:25,015
So as you're talking and remember,
I was telling you my dad, he
388
00:20:25,015 --> 00:20:26,965
treated us both the same, right?
389
00:20:27,025 --> 00:20:28,555
Myself and my brother.
390
00:20:29,205 --> 00:20:30,524
I think it did have.
391
00:20:30,879 --> 00:20:31,939
Some positive effects.
392
00:20:31,939 --> 00:20:35,050
Like I said, how I was, didn't want
to do it and I was afraid of it.
393
00:20:35,379 --> 00:20:39,020
But as you were talking about
the gains and the losses.
394
00:20:40,005 --> 00:20:45,275
I am a person who is more
like a man where I go for it.
395
00:20:45,715 --> 00:20:46,775
I take the risk.
396
00:20:47,245 --> 00:20:50,325
Very, and I thought, well, that's
interesting because that might be
397
00:20:50,325 --> 00:20:54,155
a gift from my parents for how,
you know, for them starting me so
398
00:20:54,155 --> 00:20:58,785
young and understanding what it
really was, what it really meant.
399
00:20:59,330 --> 00:21:02,009
But, you know, understanding
that, well, if I spent it on
400
00:21:02,009 --> 00:21:03,100
this, I couldn't buy this.
401
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:06,280
And maybe going through college
and living off potatoes to have
402
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:07,709
nice clothes was the way to do it.
403
00:21:07,739 --> 00:21:09,979
I don't know, but it worked.
404
00:21:10,019 --> 00:21:11,959
And so that was, that's interesting to me.
405
00:21:11,959 --> 00:21:16,229
So as we talk about, and we're kind of
jumping into how to raise financially
406
00:21:16,259 --> 00:21:21,280
educated kids and you were saying,
you know, to make sure that especially
407
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,430
your girls are comfortable with it.
408
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,890
Are there any other things that
my listeners would want to.
409
00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:32,720
to hear that could help with their
kids, even if they're young or if
410
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,280
they're like had enough to college.
411
00:21:35,570 --> 00:21:36,440
Yeah, absolutely.
412
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:42,530
I think, first of all, I think it's,
it's totally okay to talk about money.
413
00:21:42,540 --> 00:21:44,149
That's the first thing, right?
414
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:49,395
Money sometimes, Gets associated
in a negative light, right?
415
00:21:49,395 --> 00:21:53,025
Like we assign negative characteristics
to money, but that's really unfair.
416
00:21:53,025 --> 00:21:59,794
Money is, um, neutral and so you
can use money and your relationship
417
00:21:59,795 --> 00:22:02,225
with money could be very negative
or it could be very positive.
418
00:22:02,225 --> 00:22:04,244
So I think of money as a relationship.
419
00:22:04,255 --> 00:22:05,935
I think we need to
nurture that relationship.
420
00:22:05,935 --> 00:22:08,635
We need to cultivate it
and we need to share it.
421
00:22:08,655 --> 00:22:11,615
And so the first thing would be is,
okay, it's okay to talk about money.
422
00:22:12,094 --> 00:22:14,034
Now, you don't have to talk about
everything and you don't have to
423
00:22:14,034 --> 00:22:17,404
talk about things that are, if
you find personally uncomfortable.
424
00:22:17,414 --> 00:22:20,975
So as an example, what I don't tell
my girls is like how much money
425
00:22:20,975 --> 00:22:22,414
we make as a household, right?
426
00:22:22,415 --> 00:22:26,574
I don't get into those types of
details, but we talk about money all
427
00:22:26,574 --> 00:22:30,534
the time, but not in a way that you
might think of financial advisor might.
428
00:22:30,605 --> 00:22:33,034
So I am not out there having a lecture.
429
00:22:33,034 --> 00:22:35,855
I don't have a whiteboard going
through different financial concepts.
430
00:22:36,195 --> 00:22:39,785
That's never happened, but we
might, I think one of the biggest
431
00:22:39,785 --> 00:22:42,514
things you can do is again, and
by having your conversations.
432
00:22:43,140 --> 00:22:45,670
In front of them modeling good behavior.
433
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,380
So let's just say even if your
financial situation's a mess, right?
434
00:22:49,380 --> 00:22:52,319
Well, let's be honest Some of us have
a bad situation and some are very
435
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,959
good and we're everywhere in between
that aside We still want to model
436
00:22:56,959 --> 00:22:59,059
good behavior for our kids, right?
437
00:22:59,070 --> 00:23:02,870
Even if we're a mess We still want to
hold it together present the right front
438
00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:08,030
to them And I think modeling that good
behavior is very important And one of
439
00:23:08,030 --> 00:23:13,310
the ways you do that is you you have
to give them You Agency over money.
440
00:23:13,780 --> 00:23:18,100
You don't learn how to deal with money
until they have money in their hands
441
00:23:18,690 --> 00:23:21,770
because the thing about and I'm not
going to get to an economics lessons,
442
00:23:21,770 --> 00:23:23,460
but there's this idea of scarcity.
443
00:23:24,780 --> 00:23:29,219
And so if you had a limited supply
of money, you wouldn't learn any
444
00:23:29,220 --> 00:23:31,589
money lessons because you could
just spend it on anything you wanted
445
00:23:31,589 --> 00:23:32,930
and just more money would show up.
446
00:23:32,940 --> 00:23:36,270
That's why so many of those who
are very wealthy are out of touch
447
00:23:36,450 --> 00:23:38,040
because most of us just can't do that.
448
00:23:38,260 --> 00:23:40,070
They haven't learned
the concept of scarcity.
449
00:23:40,449 --> 00:23:43,449
It's hard to teach
scarcity without living it.
450
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,039
Right.
451
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,255
You lived there, r You said you
struggled a what this is like.
452
00:23:49,255 --> 00:23:55,480
That w up an inner city neighbor and
my father's single ho steelworker.
453
00:23:55,490 --> 00:24:03,219
We had basic I won't get into that
whol I know what scarcity is like, and
454
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,659
fortunately, my girls, I mean, we haven't
always been as fortunate as we are now,
455
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:10,719
and because we had them over a certain
period of time, they've experienced
456
00:24:10,719 --> 00:24:14,439
different levels of scarcity, but what
I've always done is put some money in
457
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,949
their hands and then coach them on it.
458
00:24:17,459 --> 00:24:20,770
And at the youngest ages, it's just
saying, Hey, here's, here's 20 bucks you
459
00:24:20,770 --> 00:24:23,590
get for Christmas or for your birthday.
460
00:24:23,910 --> 00:24:24,710
It's your money.
461
00:24:24,899 --> 00:24:27,290
I always tell them you can
spend it on whatever you want.
462
00:24:27,310 --> 00:24:29,319
Now, granted, if they're six
years old, I'm going to put a
463
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:30,820
lot of parameters around that.
464
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:32,650
Um, they don't know what to do.
465
00:24:32,650 --> 00:24:35,569
They don't know how to think about money,
but I'm going to start that process and
466
00:24:35,570 --> 00:24:37,720
say, look, you have five, you have 20.
467
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:45,080
It's really important that you always say
25 percent of this or say five spend 15.
468
00:24:45,609 --> 00:24:46,780
And then we can talk about what.
469
00:24:47,125 --> 00:24:48,895
What does it make sense
to spend that money on?
470
00:24:49,505 --> 00:24:51,065
And you gotta let them make mistakes.
471
00:24:51,245 --> 00:24:55,574
You have to let them blow through that
15 in an instant, and then they're
472
00:24:55,574 --> 00:24:58,335
going to ask you for more money
because they want something else.
473
00:24:58,615 --> 00:25:00,675
Now that's a lesson that you
can teach them right there.
474
00:25:00,994 --> 00:25:04,564
It's like, well, you could have only
spent 5 and held back 10, and you
475
00:25:04,565 --> 00:25:05,824
could have both of those things.
476
00:25:06,104 --> 00:25:09,035
Or, you know, it starts to teach
them lessons about, like, if I
477
00:25:09,045 --> 00:25:10,875
spend it on X, I can't get Y.
478
00:25:11,550 --> 00:25:13,730
No, I'm not saying you do
that five or six years old.
479
00:25:14,270 --> 00:25:18,700
I think that when they start, I mean, we
should talk about those types of things.
480
00:25:18,740 --> 00:25:20,170
I mean, you can start
it as early as you want.
481
00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:25,080
Um, but if we start talking about
those things in front of them, when
482
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,839
they're in their sort of tween years,
you know, 10 to 12, I think it's a
483
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,330
great time to start to have those
conversations, put money in their hands.
484
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:37,150
I think paying your kids for
chores that are not For the family.
485
00:25:37,150 --> 00:25:38,130
This is my opinion.
486
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:38,510
Okay.
487
00:25:38,580 --> 00:25:41,550
We have five kids, everybody
had, we had a chore grid.
488
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,790
Everybody had, you know,
their chores for the week.
489
00:25:44,415 --> 00:25:47,014
And that was to help the household
because we're all in this together.
490
00:25:47,575 --> 00:25:52,355
However, if I asked them to do something
that was beyond the household good And
491
00:25:52,355 --> 00:25:54,455
it really was like taking of their time.
492
00:25:54,574 --> 00:25:55,904
Why not compensate them for them?
493
00:25:56,145 --> 00:26:00,954
You know, what's 20 or 10 to get them
to wash your car or just you know
494
00:26:00,955 --> 00:26:04,434
to do something for me personally
Not the household what i've done
495
00:26:04,435 --> 00:26:07,965
is i've taught them a lesson that
money just doesn't come from the
496
00:26:07,965 --> 00:26:09,515
ether It comes from going to work.
497
00:26:09,955 --> 00:26:12,615
Yeah, that's how it works, right
for most of us You got to go to
498
00:26:12,615 --> 00:26:15,060
work to make money So I get mature.
499
00:26:15,140 --> 00:26:17,810
I pay them for their job and
I say, Hey, it's your money.
500
00:26:18,530 --> 00:26:23,249
However, let's talk about, you know,
how we should use those dollars, etc.
501
00:26:23,250 --> 00:26:24,770
So I think that's really important.
502
00:26:25,149 --> 00:26:26,620
You have to let them live it.
503
00:26:27,470 --> 00:26:31,920
And then as they get further along,
before they get outside the house, and
504
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,885
they're kind of like, You know, at some
point, I think a lot of teenagers kind
505
00:26:35,885 --> 00:26:38,115
of turn off from their parents, you know?
506
00:26:38,335 --> 00:26:38,575
Yeah.
507
00:26:38,575 --> 00:26:42,155
So I try to, I try to get to them
before them for that point where
508
00:26:42,155 --> 00:26:43,585
they're not really listening to me.
509
00:26:44,004 --> 00:26:47,475
And I just start to share bigger
concepts and that's a whole, you
510
00:26:47,475 --> 00:26:50,105
know, that's a longer conversation
about the time value of money.
511
00:26:50,105 --> 00:26:52,134
Like why investing early is so important.
512
00:26:52,224 --> 00:26:52,514
Yeah.
513
00:26:52,564 --> 00:26:55,575
And now that's a little more financial
advisor ask, I'll give you that.
514
00:26:56,485 --> 00:26:59,595
I really think it's having and
fostering this conversation.
515
00:26:59,980 --> 00:27:02,790
And tie in money scarcity.
516
00:27:02,940 --> 00:27:05,889
You don't have complete dollars
and you got to work for it.
517
00:27:06,554 --> 00:27:09,504
And then you can have those conversations
about college like your father had
518
00:27:09,504 --> 00:27:14,104
with you We're not paying for this or
we can't pay for this or You have some
519
00:27:14,114 --> 00:27:16,964
skin in the game because when it comes
to college and this is another rabbit
520
00:27:16,964 --> 00:27:21,675
hole I think so many kids today don't
understand that college costs money.
521
00:27:21,945 --> 00:27:25,115
I mean, they understand it costs money,
but they don't know what that means right
522
00:27:25,504 --> 00:27:31,215
when you're 17 years old you don't know
what ten thousand dollars is compared to
523
00:27:31,215 --> 00:27:36,925
50 compared to 100 It really they really
don't understand and get that and they're
524
00:27:36,925 --> 00:27:40,715
not going to get that unless we really
step in and try and instill That for them,
525
00:27:41,615 --> 00:27:44,345
Lesa Koski: you know, and as i'm
listening to you and I have a great
526
00:27:44,345 --> 00:27:49,984
relationship with my parents Um, but
I think that you know how I said my
527
00:27:50,034 --> 00:27:54,815
husband his dad worked in the mines You
know, he had he had a rougher childhood.
528
00:27:54,995 --> 00:27:59,085
He didn't want his dad to pay for his
college He didn't want to take away
529
00:27:59,085 --> 00:28:05,525
from his retirement It was a little
harder You For my parents to teach me
530
00:28:05,525 --> 00:28:10,385
about money, because I think I felt,
and I never said this to him, but I
531
00:28:10,385 --> 00:28:13,095
think I felt a little bit like, why
are you making this so hard for me?
532
00:28:13,895 --> 00:28:15,735
You could afford to pay for this.
533
00:28:16,254 --> 00:28:18,614
And I think Ed it's affected my parenting.
534
00:28:18,935 --> 00:28:20,655
Because I'm a people pleaser.
535
00:28:20,715 --> 00:28:24,225
I'm learning how not to be now
that I'm a grandma, but I think
536
00:28:24,225 --> 00:28:28,245
that I, I mean, and I have great
kids and they're doing amazing too.
537
00:28:28,265 --> 00:28:32,535
I, one's a physician, one's
a dad of two girls so far.
538
00:28:32,975 --> 00:28:37,790
Um, and then my baby's in
college and, um, I don't know.
539
00:28:37,790 --> 00:28:41,480
I just am feeling like I'm so
thankful right now as I listen
540
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,930
to you for those lessons.
541
00:28:43,750 --> 00:28:48,710
And it's harder for somebody who's
maybe not going through a hard time
542
00:28:48,750 --> 00:28:51,930
to teach their kids the value because
the kids might get mad at them.
543
00:28:52,219 --> 00:28:52,650
You know what I mean?
544
00:28:52,650 --> 00:28:53,959
They might be like, I
don't understand this.
545
00:28:53,959 --> 00:28:54,610
We have enough money.
546
00:28:54,610 --> 00:28:55,519
Why can't I do that?
547
00:28:56,250 --> 00:29:01,200
And so I may have failed
my youngest a little bit.
548
00:29:01,745 --> 00:29:08,385
Like, you know, she's the baby by
far and, um, she was adopted and I
549
00:29:08,415 --> 00:29:11,655
think I lavished her too much and
she's in her second year of college.
550
00:29:11,655 --> 00:29:15,955
And I just was thinking as I'm
talking to you, it's never too late.
551
00:29:16,685 --> 00:29:21,405
I can just have this conversation with
her and, you know, start talking to her
552
00:29:21,415 --> 00:29:27,535
about scarcity and about why I maybe
just let it go a little bit too far where
553
00:29:27,535 --> 00:29:29,795
she maybe had more than she should have.
554
00:29:30,584 --> 00:29:32,185
You know, to help her understand that.
555
00:29:32,215 --> 00:29:36,185
And then she does like to
talk about investments.
556
00:29:36,195 --> 00:29:39,144
She took a class and
was really into stocks.
557
00:29:39,144 --> 00:29:41,604
And so maybe we do need
to get a little further.
558
00:29:41,604 --> 00:29:42,955
I think you were going to say something.
559
00:29:43,794 --> 00:29:43,985
Yeah.
560
00:29:44,034 --> 00:29:47,844
Well, what happens depending upon
your childhood, your upbringing, or
561
00:29:47,844 --> 00:29:53,065
your social economic condition, the,
in my case, growing up, I didn't
562
00:29:53,075 --> 00:29:55,125
have to seek out these money stories.
563
00:29:55,145 --> 00:29:55,965
They came to me.
564
00:29:56,045 --> 00:29:56,534
I lived it.
565
00:29:57,500 --> 00:30:01,370
So my kids, you know, they're, they're
much better off than I was growing up.
566
00:30:01,370 --> 00:30:01,870
Thankfully.
567
00:30:01,870 --> 00:30:02,120
Right.
568
00:30:02,140 --> 00:30:06,700
That's what we're trying to do, but the
money lessons, they're not so evident.
569
00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:07,689
They're not so obvious.
570
00:30:07,740 --> 00:30:08,499
There's no strife.
571
00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:10,440
There's no struggle,
certainly for the younger.
572
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,590
And if you have a multiple kids
or a number of years, right.
573
00:30:14,029 --> 00:30:17,729
Socially or economically, you tend to
start low and then work your way up.
574
00:30:17,739 --> 00:30:18,109
Right.
575
00:30:18,570 --> 00:30:25,130
So where my oldest daughters, upbringing
and her financial experience, her
576
00:30:25,130 --> 00:30:31,330
experience with money as, um, as sort of
told through the story of my life, right?
577
00:30:31,330 --> 00:30:34,070
Like, cause my, my financial
situation flows down to them.
578
00:30:34,539 --> 00:30:37,880
Her experience is very different
than the youngest, right?
579
00:30:38,210 --> 00:30:41,670
Just like you were saying there, the
young, my youngest has had access to
580
00:30:41,979 --> 00:30:45,570
more of everything than my oldest,
simply because I was further along
581
00:30:45,570 --> 00:30:48,040
in my career and in my life and
in a better financial position.
582
00:30:48,650 --> 00:30:49,550
My oldest.
583
00:30:50,020 --> 00:30:53,230
learned lessons much more
easily around money because they
584
00:30:53,230 --> 00:30:54,440
just showed up all the time.
585
00:30:55,130 --> 00:30:56,100
I could say no.
586
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,929
I, because I had to say
no, I didn't make it up.
587
00:30:59,959 --> 00:31:01,090
I'm like, no, we can't do this.
588
00:31:01,090 --> 00:31:01,770
No, we can't do that.
589
00:31:01,770 --> 00:31:03,310
We have to do all these different things.
590
00:31:03,700 --> 00:31:06,480
Now with the youngest, I
didn't have to say no as much.
591
00:31:06,989 --> 00:31:11,100
And so it's really important that we, as
parents understand that the environment
592
00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:15,120
that we're creating for our kids is
not the same from one to the other.
593
00:31:15,770 --> 00:31:17,150
And for your youngest.
594
00:31:17,330 --> 00:31:20,180
Like you were just saying, you may
have to initiate these conversations,
595
00:31:20,430 --> 00:31:23,220
then it's not too late to have those
conversations, even if they're adults.
596
00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:28,195
Um, but for me, And for anyone in this
situation, you may have to initiate
597
00:31:28,195 --> 00:31:31,975
those conversations more often versus
just stumbling upon a teachable moment.
598
00:31:32,165 --> 00:31:32,645
Right.
599
00:31:32,675 --> 00:31:38,655
So it requires us to be a little bit
more aware of what's happening in
600
00:31:38,655 --> 00:31:42,745
that, that child's world and how is she
looking at the world through her eyes.
601
00:31:42,784 --> 00:31:47,615
My case, they're all girls, so in her
eyes, but, uh, but that's, there's a,
602
00:31:47,675 --> 00:31:50,155
there's a real amount of truth to that.
603
00:31:50,785 --> 00:31:54,325
And so, um, but I really
think that there's no, there's
604
00:31:54,325 --> 00:31:55,900
no, It's never too late.
605
00:31:55,910 --> 00:31:56,550
It's never too late.
606
00:31:56,550 --> 00:31:59,880
We work with a lot of women who are
in their fifties who have gotten
607
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,440
divorced or lost their husband, um,
from, from passing away and they're
608
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,040
starting over and they're just now
starting to try and figure this out.
609
00:32:08,490 --> 00:32:11,859
And they're learning lessons at
50 and 60 that they never thought
610
00:32:11,859 --> 00:32:14,500
they'd have to learn, but they're
certainly capable of learning them.
611
00:32:15,300 --> 00:32:16,390
Lesa Koski: And it's a blessing.
612
00:32:16,795 --> 00:32:21,385
The learning, you know, we go through
hard things and we learn and we grow
613
00:32:21,405 --> 00:32:23,935
and it just makes life fuller, right?
614
00:32:25,175 --> 00:32:25,955
Yeah, absolutely.
615
00:32:25,955 --> 00:32:29,804
I mean, character, you know, all these
cliches about, you know, rough times,
616
00:32:29,805 --> 00:32:33,014
difficult times builds character
and that's where growth comes.
617
00:32:33,095 --> 00:32:34,824
But there's a lot of truth to that.
618
00:32:34,845 --> 00:32:35,725
I firmly believe that.
619
00:32:35,975 --> 00:32:36,285
Lesa Koski: Yep.
620
00:32:36,384 --> 00:32:36,674
Yep.
621
00:32:37,175 --> 00:32:39,075
Well, Ed, I went over time with you.
622
00:32:39,115 --> 00:32:40,305
I rarely do that.
623
00:32:40,345 --> 00:32:42,815
I really, really, from
the bottom of my heart.
624
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,360
I'm so thankful that you were here,
that I have these light bulb moments.
625
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,680
I hope I'm sure listeners did too.
626
00:32:49,130 --> 00:32:52,319
And so I'm just grateful that
you've been here for doing divorce
627
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,750
different and saddle up live.
628
00:32:53,759 --> 00:32:56,620
And I think I want to talk to you
again about that college daughter.
629
00:32:56,990 --> 00:33:01,309
Maybe I need to do some coaching, uh, or
maybe I can have you back to talk about
630
00:33:01,369 --> 00:33:05,499
kind of helping kids through finances,
because I think that is another issue
631
00:33:05,499 --> 00:33:09,309
to add where they're kind of coming
back home and it is hard right now.
632
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:10,820
Um, they're coming back.
633
00:33:10,820 --> 00:33:13,860
I have a lot of friends whose kids
are coming back home and living at
634
00:33:13,900 --> 00:33:17,370
home, you know, because they can't
afford a house or whatever it is.
635
00:33:17,370 --> 00:33:19,850
So maybe that's a subject for another day.
636
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:21,090
Sure.
637
00:33:21,090 --> 00:33:24,200
Well, I appreciate you having me
on today and if it makes sense for
638
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,199
your audience and they like this
well enough, I'd be happy to come
639
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,730
back and impart some knowledge.
640
00:33:28,780 --> 00:33:30,669
I do have a strong
affinity for that group.
641
00:33:30,679 --> 00:33:31,669
My girls are right there.
642
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,810
They're at this stage right now.
643
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:35,270
I know what that world looks like.
644
00:33:35,270 --> 00:33:38,380
I know what their friends are
talking about and there is, we
645
00:33:38,380 --> 00:33:39,529
can probably end on this, but.
646
00:33:40,015 --> 00:33:41,575
The reality is there is a lot.
647
00:33:42,245 --> 00:33:44,575
I just had this conversation
with my daughter the other day.
648
00:33:44,575 --> 00:33:48,415
She's like talking about her friends and
he's like, they want to know about money.
649
00:33:48,455 --> 00:33:49,735
Do you want to learn more about it?
650
00:33:49,735 --> 00:33:51,255
But they don't know where to go.
651
00:33:51,285 --> 00:33:52,985
It's like their parents
aren't talking about it.
652
00:33:53,355 --> 00:33:54,795
The Internet's a quagmire.
653
00:33:54,825 --> 00:33:57,645
So they just they don't so they
don't do anything because they
654
00:33:57,645 --> 00:33:58,905
don't really know where to turn.
655
00:33:59,515 --> 00:34:01,115
And so there's a real opportunity.
656
00:34:01,125 --> 00:34:03,404
And I firmly believe that generation.
657
00:34:03,405 --> 00:34:04,104
This generation.
658
00:34:04,105 --> 00:34:05,574
They're just coming into the workforce.
659
00:34:05,575 --> 00:34:07,185
Now is the key.
660
00:34:07,235 --> 00:34:10,434
So if we could get them trained up,
just the fundamentals, it doesn't have
661
00:34:10,434 --> 00:34:12,245
to be enough to be on Wall Street.
662
00:34:12,315 --> 00:34:15,465
Just get the fundamentals
right at this stage in life.
663
00:34:15,935 --> 00:34:20,065
And that just you'll carry those
positive trends throughout your life.
664
00:34:20,650 --> 00:34:26,389
And chances are you're going to share that
not with everyone or the women, at least
665
00:34:26,420 --> 00:34:28,880
in your backyard and your extended family.
666
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,810
So I think there's a
real opportunity there.
667
00:34:31,319 --> 00:34:32,429
Lesa Koski: I totally agree.
668
00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:36,688
Ed, thank you so much for being here
and listeners, if you want to find Ed,
669
00:34:36,699 --> 00:34:39,629
I'm going to have information in the
show notes, but where's, what's the best
670
00:34:39,630 --> 00:34:41,179
thing to do if they want a little help?
671
00:34:42,070 --> 00:34:45,230
I think if you're just starting
out or you're in the divorce space
672
00:34:45,250 --> 00:34:47,620
and you're trying to figure that
out, I would go to enlightenher.
673
00:34:47,659 --> 00:34:48,040
com.
674
00:34:48,534 --> 00:34:51,304
There's some great resources
there, whether you're just getting
675
00:34:51,304 --> 00:34:52,695
started on the financial side.
676
00:34:52,725 --> 00:34:54,415
There's a piece about nine money myths.
677
00:34:54,735 --> 00:34:57,004
It's a free white book, white paper.
678
00:34:57,005 --> 00:34:57,895
You can get that.
679
00:34:57,925 --> 00:35:02,214
Or we have 12 steps to safeguard your
financial and emotional well being.
680
00:35:02,244 --> 00:35:05,075
If you're on the divorce side,
I think those are two great
681
00:35:05,094 --> 00:35:07,555
free actionable resources.
682
00:35:07,555 --> 00:35:10,845
One of the things that we believe
strongly in is not just about putting
683
00:35:11,125 --> 00:35:12,925
information out into the world, but.
684
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:14,620
actionable information.
685
00:35:15,270 --> 00:35:17,980
And my, my business partner who
happens to be a professional
686
00:35:17,980 --> 00:35:20,480
woman, she's so adamant about that.
687
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,000
She says, look, I just don't
want to hear some great idea.
688
00:35:24,010 --> 00:35:26,760
I want to know how to take
this and apply it in my life.
689
00:35:26,919 --> 00:35:29,050
We need to build a guidebook
or something like that.
690
00:35:29,050 --> 00:35:30,010
And that's what we've done.
691
00:35:30,389 --> 00:35:31,089
Lesa Koski: I love it.
692
00:35:31,129 --> 00:35:31,529
Okay.
693
00:35:31,529 --> 00:35:34,269
Listeners go there, find that
it'll be in the show notes.
694
00:35:34,419 --> 00:35:35,269
Thank you, Ed.
695
00:35:36,219 --> 00:35:36,549
Thank you.
696
00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:37,069
Appreciate it.
697
00:35:37,379 --> 00:35:38,209
Lesa Koski: Take good care.
