One of the greatest discoveries of life is finally understanding who you really are. From the time we are born on this planet , most of us struggle to find our identity. Who we are we really? What is our innate talent?What do we really like?

In his episode our guest James Jones will share his story and what he discovered on his journey through this thing we call life.

"TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective" - Elevating Conversations on Race, Leadership, and Diversity in Corporate America

TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective

Episode Title: The Road From Me to Me... and Ultimately Me

Guest: James Jones

Bio: James C. Jones is a Certified Executive Coach (credentialed by the International Coach Federation) and a Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DE&I) Consultant. His approach focuses on achieving individual and organizational talent development goals by applying research-based methodologies. He emphasizes creating sustainable change by aligning identity, strengths, motivational needs, self-awareness, values, and leadership acumen.

James's Website

Host: Tony Tidbit

Episode Overview:

• Jim Jones shares his inspiring journey of self-discovery.
• Discussion on the importance of finding oneself and embracing individuality.
• Featuring a motivational quote by Miles Monroe: "The greatest discovery in life is self-discovery. Until you find yourself, you will always be someone else. Be yourself."

Key Points Discussed:

• Jim Jones' personal experiences and insights.
• The process and significance of self-discovery.
• How personal growth and understanding impact professional life and leadership.

Tony's Tidbit:

• A segment featuring a thought-provoking quote by Miles Monroe.

TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective website

https://podcast.ablackexec.com/episode/the-road-from-me-to-me-and-ultimately-me

© 2024 A BLACK EXECUTIVE PERSPECTIVE LLC. All rights reserved. No part of this podcast may be reproduced without prior written permission. For permissions, email podcast@ablackexec.com

a black executive perspective whether you're aware 

of it or not it's a topic that is often avoided

we'll discuss race and how it plays a factor 

and how we didn't even talk about this topic

cuz we were afraid a black executive perspective 

but a big part of it was understanding that this

is who I am and I want to really spend some time 

and some courage around understanding that and and

going as deep as I can with this this is what I do 

what's the alignment that's possible because there

always going to be tradeoffs there there're always 

going to be aspects of myself which I need to I'll

be required to to place aside for a moment it's 

welcome to a black executive perspective podcast a

safe space where we discuss all matters related to 

race especially race in Corporate America I'm your

host your guide your Sensei Tony tidbit and you 

know one of the things I I struggled with in my

life is really trying to figure out who I really 

am you know and I think that's a journey that all

of us go on from the time we come into the world 

we really try to figure out who we are what we

like and it's a struggle and obviously there's a 

conflict from you know what we think Society wants

us to be what our family wants us to be and I was 

no different right I remember my mother telling

me something when I was a kid and she you could 

be you good at math you could be an accountant

so I was like I'm going to be an accountant right 

however at the end of the day it's important that

we have the self-discovery in terms of who we 

really are and a lot of times we think it has

to do with you know our titles at work or you 

know the different accomplishments that we had

as well as our failures and we know that's not 

entirely the case so today our guest James Jones

will share his story and what he discovered on 

his journey through this thing we call Life Jim

welcome to a black executive perspective podcast 

it's great to be here buddy I'm so excited that

you're here and especially we're going to talk 

about you know self-discovery and um you know it's

something that we struggle with I still struggle 

with I think you know most people very rarely you

know people understand who they are why they're 

on this planet what they're supposed to do so I

really appreciate you coming on and sharing your 

story and providing some insights to our audience

so before we get into the heavy stuff my friend 

give us a little background on you well what

shall I say I'm a an executive coach a certified 

executive coach and Dei consultant I live in New

York City and Brooklyn more precisely in bedy more 

precisely than that um yeah I've been here now for

off and on for any number of years I've lived 

abroad uh but my my my my my path always took

me back to Brooklyn so here I am oh so Brooklyn is 

the key though right so why do you say your path

always took you back to Brookland well I was born 

in St Louis Missouri quite frankly and uh went to

school in Boston in Cambridge at Harvard and uh 

came to New York initially to go to juliard in the

American Opera theater and pths took me away from 

New York after that I won a full bright Fellowship

I went to Europe I was there for about five years 

or so came back lived in Brooklyn again in fact

in the same building I'd lived in before and uh 

then I moved out to Seattle came back to New York

lived in the same apartment building I lived 

in before so I'm a real homing pigeon I think

and um yeah and here I am could I leave Brooklyn 

now I probably could but I take Brooklyn with me

I think wherever I went well W listen when you 

keep coming back to the same place you're right

it's part of who you are indeed no go ahead what 

you gonna say I said indeed it is yeah it's part

of who you are right so and look I'm from Detroit 

Michigan I still I live in Connecticut but I still

read Detroit news and Free Press every day still 

keep up on everything going on in Michigan so

definitely relate to that however my friend you've 

had a very you know and you just spoke to it at a

high level you've had a very uh unique journey 

I mean St Luke leis juliard Harvard you didn't

say it but Colombia uh executive life coach so I 

mean that's a lot that's that number one that is

outstanding which is awesome however why don't 

we we back up a little bit you know because I

love to hear you know from St Louis to juliard 

is is you know I don't think those two words go

together okay so tell us a little bit give us 

a little bit you know from your background in

terms of you know where you started in St Louis 

and you know to the next levels in terms of how

you got out I think mine was sort of the classic 

social studies story I came from a single parent

household I had 11 brothers and sisters a single 

mother not an unusual tale to be told in many of

our cities at a particular era um I was the 

seventh of 11 children spent most of my time

my earlier years with my grandmother quite frankly 

and that was sort of I think where my core values

I thought were beginning to be sort of sown I 

was a very shy young person uh my mother had

a a rough mouth let's just say and she took no 

prisoners and I always sort of cowed from that

my grandmother was a very sort of saintly woman 

said well you got to understand your mama she

got to go out and work every day and so I want 

you to be a good Christian boy Jimmy Jones and

understand and one day I uh I got a I was in music 

always I always sang and I got a a scholarship to

go to a a music school in Illinois Illinois 

Wesleyan University I'll never forget and for

my family that was really something someone going 

to college the first in Generations but then out

of the blue some dude showed up at my high school 

and he said I got called to the principal's office

and this man said I'm a recruiter from Harvard 

and I said how do you spell Harvard sort of

thing for whatever reason he saw something in 

me that uh he decided to groom me and took me

to Harvard I got into Harvard and uh the po 

music school got sort of tossed to the side

there were many people who had grown up with 

me singing who that was a grave mistake and

who knows in your life you look back and you 

say what's an error what was sort of sent by

the the universe for me to pursue well hold on 

one second because you just hold you went from

you you I mean buddy that's a lot so let's 

back up a little bit okay so 11 siblings yes

how is that and you're number seven okay so 

tell me a little bit you know single parent

household in St Louis 11 kids Your mother 

tell us a little bit about that experience

ah what can I say about that I think you again 

I don't want to generalize but being one of 11

it was almost like being an only child 

in that my older siblings were so much

removed from me and the younger so much removed 

until much that I was likely to have to contend

with i i contended with if you will as as a as 

a single entity having said which very loving

household without a doubt we were not kissy Huggy 

people by any stretch of the imagination but food

was on the table such as it was and to me that's 

love do you know that was my mother love language

you had the you had the light on and you had food 

on the table you go somewhere else for hug sort

clear around that that's awesome you know I'm not 

not sure that works for everyone as well as it did

for some but uh looking back and you know they 

say you what is it you you experience forward

but you learn backwards there was a point in my 

experiencing forward that I arrived at a learning

moment I thought ah I get it now I recall one day 

when I was uh one evening when I was in sort of my

second semester of being a a sophomore at Harvard 

I called my mother in the middle of the night

and she said James Clarence she always called me 

James Clarence said mother and I was such a snotty

little thing I called my mother this little black 

boy from St Louis calling his mother mother hello

that should tell you something right away I said 

mother I get you do you know what she said to me I

knew you would and she hung up on me and that was 

the beginning of a whole new relationship with it

didn't need more explanation it needed nothing I 

got it I also developed a very bad mouth because

of so when you said you got it are you saying 

that you understood the responsibility and all

the things that your mother did to bring you 

guys up is that what you're saying or what is

it something different 100 % I understood her 

I I began to empathize with this woman and her

struggles and and the kinds of decisions she was 

making and priorities she was setting which in

my little corner I didn't get as a growing child 

for perhaps someone more aware than I might have

gotten it sooner but the moment I got it I've 

never looked back from it I can tell you that

well I and I think I think we all at some point 

most kids struggle with that right and I think

that's one of the main things that parents always 

try to you know wake their kids up in terms of do

you know what this takes to do right it money is 

not growing on trees I have to go out and you know

do whatever I need to do to take care of you so I 

think you know we I think I can hear my mother in

my ear saying that Double A's looking nod in his 

head his parents said the same thing to him so and

you know what and I'm saying the same thing to my 

daughters right now all right so so it's something

that we all you know we all struggle with but it 

was great and and even though she probably you

was a short uh short um answer I'm pretty sure 

she was appreciative that you at least reached

out and said hey I finally figured it out this 

answer was it was it was short in terms of the

number of words she used but it was decades 

in depth believe me there was no need for any

more we understood from that moment and again that 

understanding never ever left me and it never left

that relationship so that's awesome so so seven of 

11 matter of fact buddy that's I love it no wonder

7 11 so you you get no wonder blessed so how did 

you seven out of 11 uh siblings um how did you get

involved in music where did that come from can I 

was you know singing as a a young child I sang in

local choruses and all of that and someone as a 

some member of the church in fact as a gift they

said they were going to give me three months of 

voice lessons I was like 15 or so my voice voice

hadn't changed yet but I went to this fellow who 

ended up becoming quite a famous vocal coach in

New York uh his name was Orin Brown and he took me 

on and at the end of the three months he said my

gift to what's going on with your people as he 

puts and I'll never getet will be to make sure

that you get the best that I can offer you and 

no one's going to have to pay the the you know

the put money in the till for that and I stayed 

with him until again I went from there to Harvard

when I graduated from Harvard by then he had gone 

to juliard as a teacher and you know got accepted

into juliard and I joined him there too so wow 

so let's back up a little bit he he said that I

want to make sure your people um Can maximize 

and I'm I'm I'm paraph paraphrase it maximize

your opportunity is that what did he mean by that 

gosh I don't want to speak for him let me tell

you what I what I lived from that okay was that 

you are a young poor black talented intelligent

I suppose at least that was his perspective and 

this is my contribution if you will to what was

beginning to be a nent aspect of the the struggle 

the you know the people are people black people

demanding voice and all of that and his way of 

and I don't mean to speak for him this was his

contribution I hope he also saw talent to me so 

well I would I mean I mean and I'm pretty sure

he did because eventually you ended up going to 

juliard and stuff that I don't think he just you

know slid you in the back door and said you know 

yeah so I'm pretty sure he saw the talent let me

so what what type of music so you said choir so 

what what type of music was were you singing aha

when I went to Harvard I was an English major but 

by end of my sophomore year I was already singing

professionally around around Boston and by the 

time I was at the end of my junior year I think

I was spending 75% of my time performing I was an 

opera singer singer and uh that's what I was doing

and so the path to juliard was already being sort 

of paved so the moment I graduated I went to New

York so how did you get into Opera I don't know 

because usually people usually people say they

start singing in the church they you know stuff 

to that nature and then they go off and start a

group Opera how were you exposed to Opera when you 

were a kid tell us a little bit about that not at

all not at at least until I got to high school 

I guess something in the quality of my voice um

suggested that it was a voice particularly when 

my voice changed that was developing into um what

someone heard as having operatic qualities about 

it really you I don't want to make it any more

romantic than that is what it is I will tell 

this anecdote my voice actually changed the at

one night when I was on stage to be more correct 

about that my voice had changed when no one had

heard me sing and I'll never forget singing Some 

Enchanted Evening on this big stage with all these

people and my teacher was booming in the in in 

in in the in the in the background and when we

finished singing the piano was playing I turned 

to the audience and I said now I'm going to sing

this to you in my other voice Meanwhile my teacher 

fainting backstage and I sang the whole thing over

again in Baron oh my God so you were so so now you 

and again I'm ignorant to Opera to be you know my

mother she grew she was from Long Island she you 

know she exposed me to classical music she used

to love classical music I don't know oper the 

only thing I know about Opera is when I was a

kid watching Bugs Bunny Looney Tunes and Elmer F 

was saying Kill the Wabbit kill I mean that's all

I know right so so tell us because I you know I 

number one it's and again I'm this is my ignorance

so i' love for you to educate me and maybe other 

people who who are not aware of Opera so yeah how

did you get exposed to Opera again it was just 

the fortunes of of being around people who had

themselves that exposure and who invited me in 

again you know coming from where I came from I

was not likely to have much exposure to it but 

you know very early on I was placed in gifted

programs and in in in M years where people could 

could sponsor that type of exposure so I was very

fortunate that was that's a blessing right to be 

able to be exposed and not only be exposed be able

to actually participate and become really good at 

it which you did okay um so did you envision at

this time frame that you were going to this was 

going to be you know we talk about identity and

Discovery and all this did you envision that you 

would be and you traveled around and you actually

went to plays and performed you know around the 

country and I think you also went to to Paris

and performed there right did you think that this 

was going to be your you know career I didn't you

know to mean there was nothing else but music 

but Opera and even though I majored in English

at at Harvard I never lost the slightest thought 

but what I would be an opera singer and I still

identify as an artist wearing corporate drag if 

you will very much I know my sensibility I own it

so going to Harvard was that what was it because 

of music how did that opportunity become real I

think it became I got the opportunity because of 

I was something different you know God knows I'm

not a great intellectual but I was smart enough 

you know I could pass the very basics of getting

in and I had the music and I suspect that those 

who were making those selections thought that was

different to invite into Harvard I can imagine so 

so what was the feeling single black kid growing

up in St Louis now going to one of the most 

prestigious universities in the world world how

how did that did that ring did did you were like 

wilded by it or was it was just a regular thing

oh you know I can look back on it now and come up 

with all kinds of descriptors which uh perhaps I

weren't feing at the time it was you know culture 

shock you know being dirt poor all of a sudden

being around people who had $150 million you know 

trust funds there was no connection I could make

with any of that and nor did I have to struggle 

with that connection because I was protected in

a sense I was cocooned because of Music quite 

frankly Harvard took care of me without a doubt

without a doubt I never had the slightest want for 

four years neither money for going home or going

on trips I went on world tours and all of that and 

again coming from a family of 11 you know kids of

an uneducated mother so it's extremely fortunate 

I'm a horrible School chauvinist I'm not a snob

about where I went to school but I definitely 

wear the Crimson I do so you know they just had

the Harvard Yale game uh last week though do you 

ever go to you ever go to the Harvard Yale game or

what are you don't want are you ready to get off 

the podcast I said y the har jail game to be seen

not for were they doing something else out there 

but celebrating me how's that for ego I love it

I love it well look that's that's part of going 

to to going there right is because it's part of

now and again we're talking about identity and 

self-discovery and stuff of that nature so that

that is um that is awesome so how in in terms you 

were you said you protected you had a cocoon I

did which was great did you interact with the 

other student body and if you did what was the

and you said hey I'm an opera singer I'm on the 

choir and obviously the the black population at

Harvard I can imagine you know when you went 

there was was minimal right so what was that

experience like it was again I was so protected 

I I don't want to take any credit to myself but

I called there was a picture on the front of the 

Harvard Crimson which was our local you know the

Harvard's newspaper and I was standing next 

to the president of the Harvard who had gone

to a conent which I was in the night before and 

stopped to speak to me on Harvard Yard is where

the Freshman live and the Crimson captured a 

photo of it and they said Jimmy Jones with a

friend I was obscenely popular and I want to say 

that now because I want to then peel back that to

speaking of identity I was extreme really horribly 

popular Harvard has what they call the only at the

time the only four elected positions Harvard had 

was what they call class Marshals and they for the

last 100 years or so had always been the wealthy 

white athlet athletes I was number two wow made

all the papers it was the first time Harvard 

that had a black um person in in in that role

and I just got as a class Marshall it was just 

one of those things in fact in my graduation the

four bus were sing together and I was wearing 

a red something other and one of the the the

Harvard Lums some government official came to 

me he said we invited you here and you you're

such a rebel wearing all of that red he did not 

know that I was a class Marshall and and let me

stay with that for one more tony I announ these 

things not as any way it it was a fortune I I I

I Grew From that but it took years to peel 

back a lot of that to discover my identity

at the core of that and that was work and that 

was pain but I'm I'm I'm grateful that impeding

it back I was able to hold on to what for me 

I value from that experience but believe me

it took some peeling back indeed it did so when 

you say it took some peeling back what do you

mean by that can you share a little bit more yeah 

if I can um when I went to juliard that was sort

the beginning of it I was in the American Opera 

theater there right up to Harvard that was my

first time having to confront that I really didn't 

have the emotional maturity that perhaps I would

have developed had I gone to a state school 

or whatever I'd been so protected by Harvard

and it its traditions and it's money and all 

of that and now I'm thrown into the pot with

you know hardworking opera singers who you know 

you know take no prisoners and I had I did not

have the emotional um solidity to be able to to 

confront that in in a way that was anything but

painful it was a very difficult time for me and 

I ended up leaving juli art after a year make a

long story very short even though I went back 

later to complete um you that operatic program

I just didn't have the maturity emotional 

maturity emotional uh in int intelligence

whatever you may call it to confront New York 

and what it meant to be a young black person on

the streets of New York I had nothing to prepare 

me for that nothing wow and and and and which is

interesting because growing up poor in St Louis 

which your mother probably was scrapping you know

just to be able to take care of you and your and 

your and your siblings um and then I mean that

takes a lot of that's an attitude itself right in 

terms of scrapping in terms of you know whatever

comes up going she's going out slaying lions 

and then coming home and and taking care of

you guys so none of that kind of passed on to you 

if I'm hearing you correctly because you were jet

not jettison you were you know uh taken into the 

bosom uh because of your talent into Harvard and

very well protected if I'm hearing you correctly 

and everything was taken care of for you and then

after you graduated now you're out on the street 

and it's every man for himself very much right

and and you're having a a hard time dealing with 

that is that what I'm hearing totally you are and

I think you say none of it was passed on it was 

passed on the growth was about clearing out the

debris of har and any number of other things and 

again you know I'm a huge Harvard uh devote but

that aspect of Harvard if you will and that type 

of cocoon it took me some time to sort of clear

that aside to understand exactly what was at the 

core of what my mother taught me and what was that

what was that Decor that she taught you a kind 

of self-reliance under extreme circumstances I'm

not telling a tale that you know we we've not all 

experienced it time but it just took me a longer

while perhaps to get there and to understand 

that at the end of the day what you are who

you are what you value has got to be where you 

where you where you plant your flag nothing else

will will work and I'm not clear that I got that 

right long time that day you know that telephone

call to my mother was the beginning of that right 

but it took me a while to just to connect the dots

if you will right right and you know I I it's 

it's it's interesting the way you position that

because I you know and if thank you for sharing I 

think that's a struggle we all and maybe not into

your um particular story but I think you know a 

lot of times you know you could it for you to be

able to to to self-reflect and really like you 

said peel the onion back and really look deep

within in terms of yeah I went here I had this 

opportunity um but the end of the day it's not

really all who I am right it's it's an experience 

I take some stuff out of it it helped me open in

some areas it helped me grow but in other areas 

it didn't help me grow is that what I'm me are we

on the same page my friend we are maybe a slight 

Nuance of difference would be a slight shade of

difference between it all helped me grow got 

I just had to come to a better understanding

of of self-awareness around how the crevices 

I was creating for myself and the things that

really were leveraging growth you know and I don't 

mean to speak in sort of coaching terms but that's

really came down to and again I'm talking you know 

experience forward learn backwards it took a lot

of I'm continuing on I'm on that learning curve 

still but you come to this point where you go

okay guess what you still got stuff to figure 

out cotton you want you still got to go out

tomorrow and pick some more and little by little 

your your your bag will be as full as it's going

to be and if it's not who you going to blame not 

your mother not Harvard not anybody else I don't

mean to be flip around it but I really do feel 

that way no no no I love that I mean and and look

I think that is awesome you were saying a minute 

ago that you were in juliard you went to juliard

and then you left all right you didn't finish you 

came back and finished later what what happened

there I went downstairs one day at jewelry yard 

feeling miserable about something and uh and uh

I was at a a news kiosk and this man know you're 

in New York some dude walking up to you that you

know you wonder what's going on there and he said 

are you an actor I said no I'm not an actor you

know I go to juliard he said I'm a director and 

I'm doing a play off Broadway called shoes I'll

never forget it and boy when I pick when I 

think of one of the roles you dead on for it

I said well I'm not an actor he said would you 

come down anyway and and talked to us so I went

down and you know they hired me to do this play 

it was an Off Broadway play equity and I quit

juliard the next day wow again I had no emotional 

intelligence I had no way of of thinking through

these things with any type of real strategy it 

felt good to do it and not done it so you quit

juliard to do this off Broadway play on a wh and 

an agent saw me in the play loved me signed me on

and and again came to another Crossroads sent me 

out to to uh uh Indiana as a guest artist to do

a play there to start a play there and to give 

lectures and all that and whilst I was there uh

they learned they they knew I had sung I was 

asked to sing at someone's home at some sort

of dinner party at that dinner party was this 

woman who was a conductor from New York and she

said oh no you need to be on the operatic stage 

do you know I got back to New York and I went

to my agent and I said uh I don't want to do this 

anymore he said dude you ever hear thing called a

contract but she was kind enough to let me go and 

of course by the time I reached out to this woman

who said I'm going to make your career she said 

no I don't make careers of only big people so was

all cocktail talk meanwhile I had no nothing to 

go on but that was literally how I sort of went

back to Har then I had decided I was going to 

run away to England and go to the Royal Academy

of Music that that's how I made decisions I'm 

going to do it so I did it I went to England I

sort of went to the door of the Royal Academy 

of Music or Royal conservative I start i' like

I'd like to go to school here I'd like to learn 

here they said sir that's not how we do things

you you'll have to wait for the regular audition 

season I said no but you really must hear me say

they heard me they accepted me I got a great job 

there in like two days being a uh an assistant

to a fellow who was in The Diplomatic Corp but 

who also had gone to Harvard that was that con

that that connection there I got chicken feet two 

days before I was supposed to start my program at

the Royal conservatory and I came and I quit 

everything and came back to America can you

believe that I had auditioned for the Curtis 

Institute of Music in Philadelphia for their

Opera program they were already auditioning people 

to take the place of the one I had abandoned and

they let me in anyway that sort of got me back 

into the Opera totally nonsense you wouldn't want

to write about it well I mean but to be fair and 

again the way I'm the what I'm hearing is is is

seems like a lot of things came easy for you no no 

they didn't they came stupidly for me well I mean

but but to be fair though you're making decisions 

people you know I mean Harvard hey you're a great

singer juli art you know your your your coach is 

go you go there right then you all of a sudden

get an opportunity to be on stage and you get an 

opportunity to and so you're making decisions just

based on what's coming up right in your life 

versus having any type commitment or strategy

or anything like that I have the clarity of mine 

now to recognize I wasn't making decisions I was

rolling with the punches as a were and I'm not 

clear that would have should have could that it's

pointless to do that but as I've gotten older and 

worked with other people I recognize that there's

a big difference between making a a a thoughtful 

decision and just saying okay today and for many

years that's what I was doing not doing myself 

you know I I'm grateful for all those experiences

but I also recognize that a lot of that was just 

stumbling through so what what woke you up what

made you you know have this Epiphany in terms of 

you know what I'm just you doing stuff on a whim

I need to you know be a little bit more serious 

concrete I need to understand more about me what

what was the Epiphany what was the turning point 

I'm not clear I've ever had one after five years

and I was singing a lot though you know you know 

you sing some you you know you're impoverished

for the next four months you sing some more sort 

of thing when I I came back to New York I thought

I should and I wanted a plan B I was at least 

smart enough to think that I wanted a plan B

not incidentally something I would recommend for 

committed artist you don't need a plan B all your

plan is here it's in that music but I wanted a 

plan B that was the downside of having gone to

a place like Harvard you know somebody had a an 

American Express card and I wanted one of those

sort of things so I got into Columbia into their 

business school although they were not going to

accept me because they said well you're uh your 

your your your your thinking is fine but their

Mass skills are suffering would you be willing 

to delay to defer coming to Columbia for a half

a year and take I don't know what it was calculus 

I said God no I definitely won't get in after that

we'll take him anyway my game plan was to go to 

Columbia get an NBA hahaa and then put that in my

back pocket and go back onto the operatic States 

that's literally what I thought I would do City

Bank had other plans for me they said well that's 

really great you go and S it to met all you want

but we want those student loans to begin in the 

month so that's how City B bang had a different

plan they want their money Che so I had to get 

a job so and the rest is history and here I

am so listen so when you say the rest is history 

because you got your NBA uh uh at Columbia I did

and then you transition into HR am I correct 

so that was pretty much prob I was going to

be able to do I had no Finance skills or or any 

of that sort of thing or strategy skills and I

I shouldn't do myself I should do myself some 

purpose I you had an instinct around you know

what HR was about at the time so it made sense 

that I would get an HR job yes wow and then so

so let's let's just back up a little bit right 

we're talking Opera we're talking Harvard we're

talking you know a stage actor we're talking you 

know traveling around the world singing with and

and NBA in Colombia and now you're going to 

be in Corporate America doing HR so so tell

us a little because I mean that that's a that's 

a different little little journey there the only

that hadn't changed as much as it might was Jim 

Jones unfortunately like how so to me being in

HR was you know being in corporate was you had 

a Coach bag you were Gucci you know you had uh

Brooks Brothers tassel loafers you had suspenders 

and a and a self-tied bow tie and you wore a

Burberry that's what I thought you were supposed 

to do oh I looked the part very much but I but

again I I still didn't I didn't recognize that 

now now I do didn't have that type of of of of

awareness breath of experience that would protect 

me that would guide me through successfully a lot

of those early experiences in Corporate America I 

was not successful at that point in my career in

Corporate America not at all so you and again 

I I I I love your fashion um um ideas I mean

when I first got the corporate America I had a 

cheap suit I had some shoes that needed to be

shined you know I had a Raggedy belt okay and 

so so your your your idea of corporate America

from a fashion standpoint is woo I I love it I 

love love it you were saying though you still

you know wasn't um and I want to use the word 

complete you still didn't have a understanding

of what it took to become successful in Corporate 

America so so where did you find that how did you

find yourself because you know and look the the 

gym I met you know and in full transparency um

you know I went to namic Executive leadership 

uh development program uh at the University of

Virginia at Darden School of Business um which 

was an eight-month program which was great and

then I think um one time one day they came in 

and said you're gonna meet this guy named Jim

Jones James Jones and he's a life coach executive 

coach and you know uh we have I think we have a

couple of them so we're going to split him up 

he's going to work with some of you guys and

somebody else is going to work with some of the 

others I ended up getting the Short Straw yeah so

I got Jim and it was one of the greatest 

experiences the greatest thing that that

that happened to me I mean I learned so much 

from you you helped me understand my identity

issues my sensitivity struggles and stuff to 

that nature so when I hear your story which

is great right and then I'm hearing that Tony 

I was just I didn't even I was just doing stuff

based on a whim I was didn't have no emotional 

you know uh uh sophistication when it came to

emotional intelligence I wasn't mature enough 

you know I came to Corporate America and really

didn't understand success and then I sat here and 

learned and and a bunch of my classmates you know

Nicole uh excuse me Danielle Scarboro you know 

you know Nicole husband Sean they all love you

we all have learned a lot from you so I want to 

dive into that you know you said hey I wasn't

ready to become successful what what what what 

took you to that next level oh gosh that's so

hard to answer because again there was not sort 

of a wake it was not like the time you know the

telephone call to my mother I think over time 

you s of wake up or you go you know uh forever

to sleep sort of thing and just coming coming to 

terms with my own authenticity if that makes any

sense um coming to terms with my own need to to 

connect with what I was doing connect Who I Am

with what I was doing and those are not the same 

things always uh and being at at at peace around

all of that again it's a rich process I can't say 

that I'm there every day but I think I'm pretty

close to being there for the most time even was 

just an an acceptance of that and also being in

a in a in in even in a corporate environment where 

I felt validated I felt yeah grounded and all of

that and it was simply my time to be there and 

and and and have that experience to me so when

you say validated what what what what was the when 

you say validated like what do you mean validated

for you what does that mean well I don't want to 

get too raw for your audience there but no no no

no this is a black executive perspective we want 

to get wrong I I I don't don't play basketball

and and all that things and I know I talk funny 

and I read Jane Austin novels and all of that and

you know and and and and and in my mind feeling 

okay with all of that not only okay with it but

feeling that okay this is my Center this defines 

me here it is take it or leave it can I shift and

speak French if you speak French of course I can 

but at the end of the day I'm going to go back

to being Jim Jones and it's going to be a welcome 

to you to join me there but I won't I won't there

aspects of myself I was no longer willing to 

to to to to sacrifice for that and I think I

must have been doing that again hindsight's 2020 

did I come to that in the middle of the night one

day but over time uh I had to recognize that oh 

I was going to die quite frankly that I needed to

make some to take a stand around my identities 

as it were you know there are several and and

and and be okay around those and I am that is 

awesome my friend and listen I know you know as

I'm listening to you I get goosebumps I'm you 

know know the audience there's a all there's a

plenty of people who've been in that situation I 

can speak for myself you know I always felt that

I I needed to you know be somebody else to be 

liked to be accepted to to to be successful and

and I struggle just being me you know people see 

me as this gregarious you know fun you know high

energy and at times I am that right but there 

and you and I chat you've helped me with this

and there's times I'm just quiet I'm shy I don't 

want to say nothing to nobody I don't want to be

B and you know I had to accept that so let me ask 

you this you know there's a lot of professionals

that deal with with that that really peeling 

back the onion to see not only who they are

but to accept who they are what recommendations 

would you have for them and again I don't want to

be arrogant enough to to say to someone do this or 

do that uh because I don't think it's that easily

packaged number one but a big part of it was 

understanding that this is who I am and I want

to really spend some time and some courage around 

understanding that and and going as deep as I can

with this this is what I do what's the alignment 

that's possible because there always going to be

tradeoffs there there always going to be aspects 

of myself which I need to I'll be required to to

place aside for a moment it's when it's becoming 

um a function of of placing aside and forgetting

it and not going back to it and not reconnecting 

with it that I know I'm in trouble and you will

be in trouble black white or indifferent that 

will happen and the pain will become such it

can't balance it that's when the stress becomes 

distress and again I spoke of speaking French and

France it's you know yeah a lot of these things 

are part of your tactic I know that tomorrow in

order to be accepted by this audience and 

validated by these particular circumstances

and and to be able to have that Propel me towards 

my goal my business goals I need to wear Burberry

I need to wear telop it doesn't mean I'm not 

being who I am it's saying this is a strategy

this is a tactic it's when the tactics and and the 

strategies overtake your sense of of of well-being

that you're in trouble and it can happen I'm not 

saying on any given day but over time you can be

so consumed by you know the the the aspect of it 

all so if I'm hearing I hate to simplify it but if

I'm hear I'm hearing a b a word balance right 

because at the end of the day we you know let

me back up for a second sure what I'm hearing 

is the I'm me well let me use me as example so

Tony there's you are you however there's times 

where you need to from a strategic standpoint be

able to do this right because this audience needs 

you to be this all right the challenge is is nine

times out of 10 we get Lo we we we lose balance 

where now where I'm I'm placating this audience

to be this I become that all the time and I 

forget my Center in terms of who I really am

is that what I'm hearing Jim I definitely that's 

a part of it Antonio part of me is the work of

that Center and and that's where the real work 

goes on once you're there and understand that

and are are are are living in that Center of of 

values and and and and and your pain and whatever

it may be you can do all the rest of that because 

that's what you do I'm going across to this place

now what do I need to be successful there you've 

always got a you you always got a a choice then

that's the other part of you will always have 

a choice now it's easy for me to sit here in my

Brooklyn living room and talk about my choice and 

you've got two girls to put through College as it

were but it's always a choice and there's always 

going to be a premium there's always going to be

a premium there'll be a price tag on making some 

of those adjustments to be successful in corporate

there'll be a premium on getting two um Imes in 

in in in self-investigation what's the price teag

I'm willing to pay right right so you know you've 

worked at um you've been an executive coach um um

life coach for for years now yes and obviously 

every human being is different and you work

with a lot of people what some of the things that 

you've seen or you worked with you can keep it at

a high level that you know professionals struggle 

with in terms of corporate America and their and

their uh centered self I'm going to repeat myself 

here the the what I do versus who I am conundrum

simplifying something that can be really really 

wrenching for people it really can again of old

Stripes you know black white gay Strait you called 

it that what I do versus who I am and is the is

the is the sacrifice to do this such that I am uh 

annihilating who I am that's all you got the end

of the day I'm being incredibly simplistic and 

perhaps that's I'm being so simplistic because

that's all I have to offer what I do who I 

Who I Am where can those L what's the work

of getting those as much align as I can because 

some that you have any control over what you do

have control over is to spend the the time to go 

deep and have the courage to say what I am this is

who I am this is where I live and to say and you 

know what I'm going to find an appropriate way of

sharing some of that with AA with those people I'm 

going to mechanism for bringing the what I am to

what I do It's Tricky just strategic and tactical 

around it you know but I love that though because

what you're saying is is that um it's important 

to yeah I I I got to do what I got to do but if

I can start bringing who I am to what I'm to do 

what I got to do then I'm not going to get lost up

in terms of what I got to do what I got to do my 

Center is still going to be there and it's going

to be actually spilling over in terms of what I do 

what I got to do what I got to do correct I would

say that more of what you are shows up anyway it 

just may be a blind spot and you want to again

manage the narrative you want to understand what 

that's all about what's showing up about me that

U others are experiencing and I want to understand 

what that experience of them is all about and of

course you're going to get lost but you'll be 

able to find your way back because you'll know

where you need to be and it's incredibly hard 

work and never never stops and something is

always derailing you from that that course of 

accent so let me ask you this in terms of you

know I I remember when you and I were chatting and 

uh I was telling you a story and I was saying you

know one of the things I always struggle with 

um is that I expect people to treat me the way

I treat them right if I'm doing the right things 

to those individuals they see it and I'm expecting

in return that they do the exact same thing and 

then I was looking for a sympathetic ear because

I was like this should be just this should be 

just simple right and I was explaining that to

you and you looked at me and said Tony you can't 

control what they do to you right can you talk

a little bit about that because I thought that 

was eye openening for me well you just said it

Tony there good luck with your expectations but 

it's also who that said I'm also not responsible

for what you think about me either so there 

Comes This Moment you go you know I'm doing

as best I can and it's authentically as I can 

and as in alignment with our goals and our our

our our our shared outcomes as I can beyond that 

okay and again I'm being overly overly simplistic

because I have nobody to take care of but me and 

my you know my Whole Foods Bill and those other

considerations and complex aspects of Life all 

kick in but still at the end of the day this is

it I'm doing as best I can I'm as confident as 

I can I'm as authentic as I can and again what

I hoped we picked up on was that you've said it 

as well as I could possibly you have no way of

knowing what I perceive from you you have no way 

of knowing what I need from you unless we built

the kind of relationship and I've understood 

myself well enough and I'm courageous enough

with myself that I say Tony this is what I need 

from you the moment Look to You to satisfy that

need I'm in big trouble your dear wife your lovely 

children double A none of us can do that for you

that core need you have to do for yourself it's a 

lonely place to be but that's all you got because

the moment you get to that place where you take 

responsibility for those core needs the rest is

going to fall into place it's going to fall into 

the place it was meant to fall into right right so

in other words you know be satisfied with what 

you do who you are and don't worry about what

other people do and or more importantly what they 

don't do do you mind if I give a different slight

shading to that please please my friend about 

satisfaction be sure of the work you're doing

to be as much Tony Franklin as you can the most 

authentic Tony Franklin the most self-aware Tony

Franklin the most grounded Tony Franklin that 

you can be the other has to at the end of the

day take care of itself it may not take care of 

itself in the way that you might have you know

put in your you know your fiveyear plan but Tony 

it's all you got the the the other side of that

is just a lot of pain it may be an extra trip 

to to uh Martha's Vineyard but what you got at

the end of the day and again I'm not knocking any 

of that those are wonderful things to have this

is the man with the Burberry remember that it's 

is it really worth the the the the the the wear

and tear on you on your relationships on your 

sense of selfworth maybe I say that because I

never had those things but uh not you know you 

know the the the Martha's Vineyard at home but

uh I I can't I have to believe that that's where 

it starts and that's where that's that's what the

journey is all about going from you to you I read 

in a book somewhere a quote that I thought was so

powerful is who am I and what would it take to 

be I am that was powerful stuff very powerful

that is powerful and and and and piggybacking on 

that the road from me to me and ultimately to me

how do you how do you define that what does that 

mean I don't know it sounded good when I wrote

it you know what I mean Jane Austin that day and 

I thought that's kind of cool hey hey so are you

smart if I put it like that so are are are you 

are you no matter what you went through or no

matter what I go through or no matter what 

doublea goes through or our audience the the

journeys the ups and downs the indecisions the 

decisions that's you absolutely is and that's

a lonely thing sometime to accept but it still 

is what it is it still is what it is and again

you want love in your life you want Connection in 

your life you want access to others in your life

of course and have them access to you but at the 

end of the day it's all about the work you doing

about Tony Franklin about dable a about Jim Joe 

just all we got it's not always a scary thing to

have to to contemplate but there it is let let 

me let me throw this at you one of the things

that we struggle with uh and you said this word 

a few times um self-aware a self-awareness one

of the things that we struggle with there's 

a lot of people who are not self-aware Ware

or they when they look in the mirror they are 

self-aware but they don't like what they see

oh and not that right and then they go back to 

going back to your point about being who you

need to be for a certain audience they rather 

being that Arena yeah versus being in their

own looking in the mirror Arena what would you 

say to those individuals okay I'm I'm just not

want to give advice because I struggle I get 

it I get it I get it it's it's it's again to

repeat myself it's all you got it's all you 

got and if you can do play that other do that

other thing without causing yourself infinite 

pain great be successful there but at the end

of the day what do you have to go back to 

what is the work you've done to say I live

here and I'm grateful for living there ah yeah I 

mean listen it it can be yeah well you know what

at the end of the day I think you know and 

that's why I'm so excited that you're here

just being able to reflect look back I mean you 

sharing your story today and you're like look it

took me years to look back and say I wasn't 

here or I wasn't ready for this or you know

I was making decisions based on this or calling 

your mother up and saying hey guess what I know

I'm gone I know I'm you know a grown man now and 

living abroad or whatever but guess what I just

want to let you know I got you I know what you 

were going through I know what you were dealing

with right so I guess those light bulbs uh come 

up uh you know come bright at some point in our

lives and more importantly when they do come 

bright we acknowledge them yes well my friend

go ahead finish your thought you want to make 

sure when you get back home you are there for

you how about that that is that is awesome so 

tell me what the future holds for you huh don't

know future defined in what I'll have for dinner 

this afternoon or I'm a coach as I say I love my

work uh you know we we're always hoping for you 

know that next fascinating interesting contract

we all do that we may say we don't but we do but 

I'm very grateful uh so one of the things you and

I I wanted to ask you about this and I forgot you 

were able to meet James Balwin is that correct I

did tell us tell us about that experience when the 

last time I went to Europe to stay any period of

time I'd gone over I already knew that I was going 

to go back to business school but I had uh I some

producers came over from Paris and they were 

looking for and I heard about this through you

know my former Arts uh Network they were looking 

for a young black African-American male who spoke

fluent French and who had a background in music 

I thought I got this y'all and being New York of

course you go and there's a there's a there's 

a line five you know five blocks long of all

descriptions and you go how you gonna be black 

but you know what you hire me and I'll figure

that out and I'm not mad at somehow got job 

he said it was a line so long all the way down

New York not know that that's that whole acting 

World anyway I I did get that role so I went over

to Europe and was there for six months in Paris 

narrated a a show called The Gospel Caravan and

uh James bwood had written it in conjunction with 

a French author by the name of malol Y and it was

about the history of gospel music and they so 

they had brought up all these gospel stars and

who through through music told the story of gospel 

and I narrated it in French so that was wow and he

came to some of the early rehearsals he did 

indeed did you guys hang out at all oh yeah

right I mean you made it you were right there 

I figed that you would be able to hang out with

him I don't think

so very funny oh well look my friend 

it's been a blessing to have you on um

final thoughts for the audience 

where do you want to leave the

audience know be you cuz ain't nobody else out 

there has occupied that particular booth well

I can tell you this you were you tonight and 

really appreciate it you've been a blessing in

my life and I can imagine to countless hundreds 

of others you've really touched a lot of people

in terms of helping them self-identify deal 

with the minutia that we all deal with in our

head so I love you a lot you you I'm a big fan 

of yours and listen if somebody's listening to

this and they like hey I love I would love to 

connect with Jim Jones and sit down and just

you know chat about you know myself and Corporate 

America and how I can you know take my game to the

next level where would they be able to reach 

you probably the best is at LinkedIn James C

Jones and you'll see my company name there and 

reach out I would love to have that conversation

well I hope they do um because at the end of the 

day you like I said are fantastic I'm glad we're

friends as it's been a blessing my friend so 

thanks a lot for appearing and sharing your

story as well as you know a lot of great uh 

antidotes and Solutions on a black executive

perspective podcast thanks to you both God 

bless have a wonderful holiday awesome thank

you so I hope you enjoyed today's episode the 

road from me to me and ultimately to me with

Jim Jones he was fantastic outstanding loved 

that he shared his story and then obviously

he talked about the self-discovery that he had 

um which was great so based on that I'm going

to go into Tony's tidbit and today's tidbit is 

by Miles Monroe the greatest discovery in life

is self-discovery until you find yourself you will 

always be someone else always be yourself and that

was by Miles Monroe so thanks again for tuning 

in to another uh episode of a black executive

perspective podcast please go to our website at a 

www a black executive perspective podcast to sign

up for updates uh we're going to be launching 

our monthly newsletter soon please leave us a

review how did you like this episode how did you 

like Jim do you have additional questions for Jim

please don't hesitate to give us a rating and if 

you haven't subscribed to our podcast wherever

you're able to listen to your podcast follow us 

on our socials at LinkedIn X Instagram YouTube at

Tony tidbit be for our great guest Jim C Jones 

our executive producer doublea I'm Tony tidbit

I love you a lot we talked about it now we're 

out thank you for tuning in to this episode of

Tony tidbit a black executive perspective and 

for joining in today's conversation with every

story We Share every conversation we Foster 

and every barrier we address we can ignite the

Sparks that bring about lasting change and this 

carries us one step closer to transforming the

face of corporate America if today's episode 

resonated with you consider subscribing and

leaving us a reading or review on Apple podcast 

Spotify or wherever you get your podcast share

this episode with your circle and with your 

support we can reach more people and tell more

stories