My guest today is multi-seven-figure attorney-turned-entrepreneur, Sam Vander Wielen, but trust me when I say we're diving into much more than just her impressive career accolades. I had the pleasure of chatting with Sam about her personal experience with caregiving for her parents, which opened up a discussion about the many different responsibilities we balance in our lives. We explored the challenges of putting others' needs before our own and the rewarding and fulfilling aspects of doing so.

Sam shared how she found her true calling in an unexpected way, and how she had to learn to do things herself before seeking out help. We also talked about the importance of creating evergreen offerings and the benefits they bring, as well as knowing oneself and finding your true identity outside of titles and careers.

But let me tell you a little bit about what Sam is typically known for. She's an attorney turned entrepreneur and legal educator, helping coaches and service providers legally protect and grow their online brands through her legal templates and signature programs, including the Ultimate Bundle. Sam hosts the podcast On Your Terms, where she shares valuable legal and business tips for online entrepreneurs.

Sam's down-to-earth personality and great energy make her a joy to talk to. I'm thrilled to have connected with her, and our conversation was much more than just her career achievements.

What you'll hear in this episode:

[1:55] What Sam typically is known for and how she got started in this field.

[5:30] Why you need to stop doing things you’re not good at and start doing things you are.

[10:50] Personal fulfillment from the business.

[16:35] How to find the balance between being a caregiver and finding time for yourself.

[19:45] Things you can do now to help set your child or another future caregiver up for success.

[25:00] How evergreen offerings can set you up for success.

[28:10] What to do when you think "I can't do this because _____."

[32:55] Getting clear on what you want and allowing yourself to be all of the different aspects of who you are.

[36:45] Holding space for others and expanding who you are.

[40:00] How to separate who you are as a businesswoman from who you are as a person.

[45:10] What to do if you’re ready to make a change.

CONNECT WITH SAM

Follow Sam on IG: https://www.instagram.com/samvanderwielen/?hl=en

Check out the On Your Terms Podcast: https://www.samvanderwielen.com/podcast/

Learn more about Sam and purchase her templates: https://www.samvanderwielen.com/

Check out Sam's mindset coach: https://www.jenniferdiaz.com/

CONNECT WITH KELSEY

Follow Kelsey: https://www.instagram.com/thisiskelseysmith/

Follow Momma Has Goals: https://www.instagram.com/mommahasgoals/

Download the app for https://apps.apple.com/us/app/momma-has-goals/id1607219680 or https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mommahasgoals.android&hl=en&gl=US

Learn more at https://thisiskelseysmith.com/

Join our text list. Text "Goals" to https://my.community.com/kelseysmith?t=Goals

Sam 0:00

Sometimes I felt like I was failing and taking care of myself. And then I'd be like, Well, how am I supposed to take care of myself when like, I just spent 12 hours in a chemo room with my dad, I come home I just wanted to veg out and like, taking care of myself was like scrolling on Instagram or watching Netflix. I think sometimes the pressure of being like I should be journaling and meditating and working out and it was like, that actually wasn't what I need because it felt like more work for me versus

Kelsey Smith 0:26

let's reimagine mom life together. Well, the house schools is your hub for relatable support and helpful resources that help you fuel yourself alongside motherhood. Your identity is bigger than mom, and whatever your goals are, together, we're making them a reality. So well, guests today may be a multi seven figure attorney turned entrepreneur, you're talking about so much more than that. I talked with Sam about her stepping into caregiving for her parents how that we hear mama has goals believe that motherhood isn't always just the little humans that you care for. But when you are putting anyone else's needs before your own at times, that you're having to balance various titles and responsibilities. We talked about what that's looked like for Sam the good that she's been able to receive in that role, the hardships that she's navigated, we talked about pivoting and growth and how she actually stepped into entrepreneurship in a totally different way. But then she truly found her calling in a way that you might not expect. We also talk about learning how to do things yourself before you go team or get help and how you really kind of have to figure it out. We talk about being able to create evergreen formats, we talk about what that can look like for you. We talk about knowing yourself and learning who you want to be that sometimes we can blame others for things when really it's up to us to figure it out who we are outside of our other titles and our job what that looks like just letting yourself be when you need to, and so, so much more. So let me tell you a little bit about what Sam typically is known for. Sam fender Whelan is an attorney turned entrepreneur and legal educator who helps coaches and service providers legally protect and grow their online brands through her legal templates and signature programs the ultimate bundle. She hosts her podcast on your terms, where she shares fresh legal and business tips each week to help online entrepreneurs safely grow their businesses. Sam lives outside New York City with her husband, Ryan, mini Bernie doodle Hudson, lots of plants and her ever growing stack of favorite books. If you've always associated attorneys with the words like Shark intense cutthroat, you're in for a down to earth breath of legal fresh air from Sam. Sam was truly so great to talk to she has such great energy. So use someone that I cannot wait to stay connected with. And this conversation is so much more than those things that she's typically known for. So you definitely want to listen, Sam, I'm so excited to have you here. I want to just dive right in and go back on your journey and your story because it's so easy for people to look at you and be like, Oh my gosh, look at this online, multi seven figure business owner just crushing it. But we know there's steps that take us to get us there. And one of my favorite parts of your story is that you didn't actually expect to have your business be in this field per se. So let's go back to the moments that you were miserable in corporate and how we got to where we're at today.

Sam 3:18

Yeah, so Well, first, thank you so much for having me here. I'm so excited to chat with you. And I yeah, I remember like yesterday, sitting in a skyscraper, like staring out the window, looking at the clouds watching birds pretty much doing anything I could to not do the work that was sitting in front of me. I was a corporate lawyer in Philadelphia, where I was born and raised. And I just really, really hated it. And I knew that I wanted to do something completely different than the law. So while I was still an attorney, I actually registered to get like a health coaching certification and start learning and start, I guess, like starting to dive in a little bit to this like online business idea, because I had never heard of it. So I was like, What are these people doing? I don't understand, like, what is a coach? You know, I came from a sports background. So coaches to me, like have a clipboard and a whistle. And so I didn't understand like, what are we talking about? What does an email list what does a landing page and so I really started exploring this world. And I eventually, long story short, I left to start my health coaching business and I wanted to do something that was completely different, especially because at that time, I blamed my career, my job, I did a job, my boss, for all of my unhappiness like that was the reason why I was unhappy with life or not feeling quite settled. And so that was the initial leap that I took.

Kelsey Smith 4:35

Yeah. And it's so often that we can be in these places. And we do kind of play the blame game, right? We play the blame game, either with ourselves that it's like, oh my gosh, because I made this decision. I'm here and I can't get out of it. Or we look to those around us whether it's our partner, our boss, our co workers, our kids, anyone that we can blame. So let's talk a little bit about the transition into health coaching and Have you stepped into the business ownership role? And what did that look like? Were you like, oh, this came really naturally? Or was there this really messy season of kind of figuring out all the bits and pieces?

Sam 5:12

It was really funny because I really thought that this was going to be my one pivot, like, oh, the legal thing didn't work out. So I'm pivoting to become a health coach. And then that would be it for the rest of my life. I don't know what really I thought, but that that is kind of what I assumed, you know. And so I left and started this health coaching business and the business part of it felt super comfortable to me, especially because as an attorney, I was always more interested in like developing on the business side, like bringing in new clients. So it was like not uncomfortable for me to put myself out there to ask, you know, for the sale, or do any of these things. But when it came to the actual coaching, I was like, Oh, this is not for me. Like that was pretty, pretty fast. I didn't feel like I was good at it, which I don't know if anyone else out there is like this. But if I'm not good at something, I'm pretty quick to be like I'm out like I don't I don't really like doing things that I'm not very good at. And it felt just like Herky jerky. To me, it's just like something about it didn't feel very natural. And I think now I know that I would be more of a board and consultant than I coached. I can like fire off quick opinions, but it's not I don't love the light going back and forth. So it wasn't really for me. And I was really, it's almost like I was shoved deeper into this hole. Because I was like, wait a minute, this was supposed to be my one big pivot. Now what do I do? Because this didn't feel quite right, either.

Kelsey Smith 6:31

Yeah. And then you end up and you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm a failure, because I was gonna go and do this. And now I have no other options. So then you had people coming to you with questions about legal right. So you were a health coach, but people started reaching out. So then how did that feel? You're like, this isn't what I do.

Sam 6:51

It was so funny. Because as I was trying to build this health coaching business, and it wasn't going that great. I was getting all of these inquiries from people being like, Hey, I saw you used to be a lawyer, and now your health coach, like, what kind of contract do I need? Or what LLC do I need or whatever. And they were asking me stuff. And I was like treating them like flies like oh, just stop asking me that. Like, I don't know why people are associating me with that, like, I'm trying so hard to be different. And I like took so much pride and you're not even telling people I was a lawyer, it was like I really wanted to shed that identity. And the final straw was that I actually went to a really big wellness conference in Philly. I was just like sitting in the audience. I had like, Baby, tiny little Instagram audience at the time, and all this kind of stuff. And so there was like a little line of people waiting to talk to me while I was just sitting in my seat because okay, you're that girl, you're the lawyer who does like health coaching business. So I have to ask you a question about my contract. I was like, Oh, my goodness, like, I can't get anybody to contact me about the health coaching stuff. But I literally have a line at a conference waiting to talk to me, and I'm just here to attend. And something shifted somewhere along the way. And I would encourage others to do this as well, where I just thought, you know what, I'm gonna stop fighting. This doesn't mean I ever have to do anything about it. I'm gonna stop finding it, though. And I'm just gonna get curious about it. Like, why are people asking me these questions? Where else? Are they looking? What's really like the sticking point, is there something here that could be really helpful for them that I would enjoy creating. And the more that I listened and kind of just stopped finding it, I realized that at the end of the day, what I really loved was the business side of stuff, I just am a businesswoman at heart and I really love everything that we do, and like the marketing side and the business side, that was like the vehicle of like, what I do doesn't really matter that much to me, like I'm always the first person to say, I'm not super passionate about legal templates, but I am really passionate about like helping people to go out and do their own thing and if that brings them greater happiness and freedom and that's like an incredible gift. And so that's sort of when it clicked for me was like, you don't have to love exactly what you do or sell or something like this. But I do think you have to love maybe the process or the result or the outcome that you get for people and that's when it made sense to me that I could do something that was technically related to legal without being super miserable and that was very very helpful to people and it gave me that opportunity to build you know a very what ultimately became a very successful online business

Kelsey Smith 9:13

and being so solution oriented and like you said curious to say like okay, this is the solution that I'm looking for I'm looking for the ability to have flexibility freedom have my own thing be business involved. I thought that was health coaching turns out it's not and people are seeing me and through through this light so how do I see myself through that light and create this kind of not compromise but beautiful cohesion between the two to be able to let it blow up to what it is now. So what did that first kind of like pivot look like? Like how did you come out and go okay, I'm I'm now doing legal what what was that like?

Sam 9:48

After that conference the following weekend, my husband had a golf trip with his like, college and grad school best friend and they were like four days golfing like 18 hours a day. You know, kind of thing. So I'm home alone. And I'm like, You know what I think I'm going to like, sit down and start a website for this. And I had named my wellness business like a wild name. And that was mistake and a really good learning lesson. And so I was like, this probably isn't even going to work, because I'm the queen of self belief. And I was like, I'm just gonna, like, buy Sam vanderlande.com, because nobody owns that. And I'm gonna build out a website and put some legal templates on, I'll create these legal templates. I mean, I had a lot of contracts and stuff for myself. So it was basically just generalizing them. And then I was getting to work on SEO, I kind of built the foundation of my business through content that was driven through Google, and built all that out, within a few weeks, had everything live up and running, had the legal templates up, and how to a sale within like, a few hours to a random person on the internet. And it was that moment when you're like, Oh, I think this thing might work. And it worked pretty quickly after that.

So exciting. So cool. So let's talk about some of like, the personal fulfillment you've got from this, because we go back to you being in corporate and in your job. And we talked about, like, just really blaming everyone else for like how you're feeling. And now you've done the pivot, you've seen the success, you've been able to find kind of that balance between legal and what really lights you up? So what are some of maybe the stories or the people that you've helped that have lit you up? And how have you individually grown alongside this business, baby?

Oh, my goodness, well, I'm very fortunate now to have 1000s and 1000s of customers. And so like, every single day, I get the nicest messages from people. And I think like one of the coolest things about what I do, and like, the impact that I've been able to have is that I kind of see the business as being a little bit of like a business doula, because I feel like we help people to birth businesses, because oftentimes, like the legal or financial side, is the part that's tripping them up a little bit and keeping them from moving forward. So it really gets people out there. And then when I see them out running their businesses and like what they're doing with their businesses, it's cool to know you had like a little spark in that in that whole process. And I do like to think often of like, the reverberating effect that that all has amongst so many people around the whole world. Yeah, you know, we have also had people write to us and say that like because of us, they were able to leave their corporate job, or like people were able to leave their husbands and like support themselves, you know, like, there have been lots of different stories, even people on my team who have been able to like, work for me full time and be able to be home with their little ones at the same time. And like how much that's changed their family, somebody on my team, the other day just shared with me that she's able to get a house with a backyard for the first time because of working for me and like how much the business has grown over the years. And she's grown with it. So that has been very, very cool. Yeah, I would say for me, I mean, it's still very humbling, I would say every day, because it's so it's still so challenging. And it's dynamic, it's always changing. And I'm just not someone who ever is like comfortable just kind of sitting where I'm at. So I'm always adding in things and making things probably more difficult. And I think that that's been really humbling, and a very, very good way, it's made me start to use my voice a little bit to speak and tell my own story, because I'm very comfortable hiding kind of behind other people's stuff. And I grew up in like a really traumatic household like very, very bad childhood situation where my role in the family was to take care of everybody else, and kind of ignore myself. So this has been the first time where I'm like, really putting myself out there and be like, actually, I just want to do something. For me, this feels really fun and exciting.

That's so much easier said than done, though, right? Like, I can imagine that you can have this feeling where you maybe see a spark of like, knowing that you're worthy for more, right? And but you're like you said your entire childhood has been maybe putting that aside and not really listening to yourself in that way. So if we have a listener that's in that same boat, whether it's not putting themselves forward because of their kids that they now have, or that's the way that they grew up, because that's even harder, right? That's years and years of having that situation and that story be put into you. So what's the first step that maybe you took, or you would recommend someone taking to really allow themselves to step into something for themselves?

I mean, beyond therapy of its available to like, I think that that was really, really helpful in getting me to see that. I know for me, there have been, I think just a lot of times when I've had to reflect on like taking ownership of when am I allowing something else to step in like for example right now I'm going through some I like just lost my dad recently now my mom is dying right now. And so it's been like a horrible time personally, and all of a sudden, all these huge big business opportunities came up all at once that were like incredible stuff. I've been waiting for years and years and years to happen. And I thought that's so interesting. I don't think that that's a coincidence because it's really this opportunity for me to be like up there is an old pattern where it would be really easy right now for me to say As you know, my dad has cancer or like my dad just passed away, I'm not going to do this right now, I'm not going to take this opportunity, put myself aside. But that's not how I want to live my life. That's not how I can live my life or run the business. And so I think like taking ownership of when you see that you're stepping into old patterns that don't necessarily have to exist anymore. That has been really helpful for me.

Yeah, what are some, like daily habits that you put in place to make sure that you're kind of putting yourself first or checking in with yourself,

I have a, I have a little list of daily non negotiables on I use Asana to like manage my business, but you could use a sauna for your personal life too. But on a son, I have my little list. So it's taking a walk, even though my deal with myself is has to be 15 minutes, but that's it, taking my vitamins, drinking enough water, because I'm like, if I do those three things, that seems like so foundational to just making sure like I'm okay, and I'm functioning fully. And then from there, I can do so much more. I know on like a smaller scale, I guess, like I, for one just have to put my phone away. I think for anybody out there who has a business too, especially like when you're newer to self employment, it's really easy to start treating it like it's not really a job and you don't take it seriously. So like people, friends and family call during the day you start taking their calls, you go out to lunch with a friend. And like, while on the one hand, that's a great flexibility of running your own business, it can also be kind of dangerous for like not letting you get your own stuff done and taking care of yourself. So I guess that's like another way that I would set boundaries with myself and with the business.

I think that's so important, because I was actually just talking about this, I think when you start your own business, you do do it for the flexibility. And often people on the side are like, Oh, you get to do whatever you want. And you're like, Well, yeah, but not if I want my business to be successful, like I still show up and do the things like maybe recording when my voice doesn't sound so great on the podcast, but being able to show up for yourself and your clients and your consumers like to how you have to just like you would for a job. So definitely that makes sense. And so I know you've put a lot of time and energy into being a caregiver for your parents, let's talk about for the people that are in that situation. You know, I always say like motherhood isn't just the little humans that you are a mom of it's all the people that rely on you for something, that's a beautiful opportunity for them to have you and for you to be able to do that. But it's I can imagine exhausting and really heavy and a lot of work. How do you find that balance between being able to be there for your parents, but also finding the way to find time for yourself and know how difficult that is?

Yeah, being a caregiver is no joke. And you know, it's particularly weird to be a caregiver of your parent because it like flips this like child parent dynamic, you know, so there's that, that whole thing, too. So that's very strange. But I think like, one of the things that I thought about as it was going on was that there was no right way to do it. And at least for me, like that relieves a lot of the pressure to be like, there is no good way to get through this, like however messy you need to get through this is the right way for you. Because otherwise it was like, sometimes I felt like I was failing and taking care of myself. And then I'd be like, Well, how am I supposed to take care of myself when like, I just spent 12 hours in a chemo room with my dad, I come home, I just wanted to veg out and like taking care of myself was like scrolling on Instagram or watching Netflix. I think sometimes the pressure of being like I should be journaling and meditating and working out. And it was like, that actually wasn't what I need. Because it felt like more work for me versus relaxing for me, you know? So really keeping that that grace, I think for yourself and realizing that there was like no, no good way. And finding someone who hopefully in your life, you have someone who you can express this to fully who doesn't try to change it or fix it, or toxic positivity it and just be able to be like, Man, that sucks. Like that is not that's no good. You know, especially also if you're young, like I was, you know, when I'm taking care of my dad and stuff, it was like it was it was hard for me to find other people in my life who were that Young, who are taking care of parents because, you know, you older people had taken care of their parents. But there is this part of like, well, that's kind of more more in line with like the way that life goes. But when you're in like your 20s 30s, it's a little bit more like, this is early, I feel a little too young for this. And so that I think finding someone who can be like a support, so I'm always more than happy to talk to anybody who's going through it. That's for sure. Yeah.

So let's kind of combine both worlds just for a question for a second. What are some of the legal steps that someone should take as a parent or as an adult to set their potential child or caregiver up for success? Is there anything that people don't really think about that they should do?

Absolutely. I wish everyone would get a will because it's like one of those things where no one wants to have it a will in Advance Health Care Directive and a power of attorney. Those are really the three things that you want. It's one of those things just like what I teach people about business like, you just have to have them way before you ever think you need them. And way before you ever want to think about them, it's just like a one and done thing, like, just get them done, put them away, right? The biggest thing I see there, though, is that people don't let the person know. So like, if you name an executor, and your will, or your power of attorney or whatever, you have to let them know. And then you have to give them access to those documents, because they need the originals in the event of an emergency. You really want to pick somebody to who like, is a good communicator and can communicate with the rest of your family. Also, if you have children, like you want to think about, like who's going to step in and make the best decisions for you if your kids aren't 18? Yeah, you know, they can't do it. So I think like, those are some of the easiest things that you can do, as well as maybe thinking through some of the financial decisions if you have the means so that people don't have to scramble and get that kind of stuff ready for you. I think that those are all really helpful things to do. And make sure that if you have parents, you make sure they register for Medicare when they become age eligible, because there's a penalty if they don't. And I would encourage someone who had to take care of a elderly father who went into cancer without any insurance. I also found him a Medicare Advantage plan that they're free to the government. And so it's what supplements their Medicare. So like, even just like looking into those kinds of things ahead of time, so that they have everything in a row, encourage your parents, like have that conversation if your parents are healthy now, now's the time to have it not. I mean, my dad went from being completely fine to on a Thursday finding out he had the worst form of leukemia that you can get. So it was too late already to have all these conversations that we should have had years and years before.

Yeah, someone that's maybe a younger parents, and they're newer into their parenting journey, or even just a young adult that doesn't even have kids yet. And they're like, Well, I don't want to spend like, you know, a couple grand on putting my will together trust together. But yeah, I have a couple things, or I want to make sure my kids go to who I want them to go to and that that's on paper. Is there like an in between? Can they make their own document and put it in a safe? Or does that really not mean anything, and they really just need to save up for will?

Yeah, so you can make your own will. But it's usually about following your state's protocol for signing the wills. So like most states require to witness signatures and a notary or like every state has something a little bit different. Some states have different wills requirements and things like that. But that's something that I probably would look for somebody, an attorney who would do it for you for a flat fee, it shouldn't be crazy expensive, especially if you have a straightforward situation. So it's something to think about. And I would just treat it as like I get stung once and then I don't need to do this. Again, there are some of the more like big bots options, you know, sometimes people will go on like Legal Zoom or something like that to prepare something. So you can look at that, I would imagine that it would be even easier for something like your health care directive, like who makes decisions regarding your health, and probably your power of attorney, maybe your will, it's a little bit more state dependent.

Taking back to your journey, you know, we're talking about kind of doing things yourself AI and I remember you talking about when you first stepped into your businesses, as a health coach and in to your legal business, you had to figure a lot of stuff out on your own. And sometimes I think a deterrent for people to step into entrepreneurship, or even a new job is I'm going to have to learn all these new things. Now I personally find a lot of beauty in that because that means that we're growing, we're evolving, we're doing really cool things. But let's talk about kind of the messy middle and how much it is important to learn those things, but also what it's gained for you to now have a very successful business. Do you feel like you needed that foundation of learning those things to get where you're at today?

I think that the reason I was able to get to where it was today is because I have this weird balance in me where I gather information, but then I take action before I have all of the information. We actually just did this like Colby test assessment as a team yesterday that told me I'm like, kind of like a mid rate factfinder. But a quick start. So I like go to action. I like take action on things. And I was like, Oh, that doesn't surprise me. Because I feel like I gather like just what I need on something. But then feel like I need to go and try try it. And so there can be like a bit too much analysis paralysis, I think in whether it's not like you're starting a business, or you're starting a new project or a hobby or something like sometimes we just have to try, you know, and put ourselves out there. So like I think building that foundation was helpful, but also just being an experimenter at heart and a little bit of a scientist and being like, let's just go try it. And then we'll like collect the data, see how it goes. And we'll reiterate and go back and do it again and make it better and better. And for anybody who's in business, I would say that like I think what really saved me was this like, I don't know why I had this like idea. But I just had this idea that I really wanted to focus on evergreen stuff. Like I wanted to be very SEO driven and like have people really coming to my website from Google and so focusing on bigger pieces of content that could always generate traffic for me. Versus like Maybe the like social media platform of the moment or something like that.

Yeah, I think that's huge. And you know, many people that are listening to this podcast are trying to balance multiple things, whether it's caregiving, children, business work, and just having time for yourself. So evergreen allows you to repurpose that content in multiple ways have other platforms, whether it's Google Pinterest, anything else, find those keywords, various things, and guide people to your content and what you have going on. And that evergreen ability means it's not constantly expiring, right? So like, I know, some people do business and it's like, okay, they're selling an Instagram Live session or a Facebook Live group session for a couple of weeks. And that's great. But then that expires unless they're repurposing it, where your content, like you said, you build the contract once and you get to keep driving people to it, it doesn't change unless some crazy log goes into place. And then you edit it once, and then you go back to it. So I think that there's so many different other ways that this can be applicable, but the concept stays the same. And that allows you to have more time and flexibility. So one of the things you mentioned is you love creating new things when you have that time and flexibility. So tell me about some of the new things that you've implemented, because you have that evergreen foundation to be able to have this more playful area of your business.

Yeah, so then, I mean, once my business was running on this, like evergreen webinar and stuff, I thought, Well, it'd be fun to do a live webinar here and there, the Evergreen Webinar will still run in the background all the time. But once or twice a year, I can pop up and do this, like live training. And now when we do them, we have like 234 1000, people sign up for these trainings. So it's really, really valuable. And it's a different experience for people than signing up for, you know, an evergreen webinars so that that's been really cool. And then last year, I said, Well, I, you know, the business is really healthy, very stable, I really, really want to write a book. And so I started working on a book proposal, it was like, it took me forever, because my dad being sick, and then losing my dad, I stopped working on it for months and months. But I'm very happy to say that I finally finished, I actually got a book agent now. So we're shopping around the book to publishers, and like having that kind of freedom to have big chunks of time to sit and write. Because the business is essentially running itself.

That's awesome. And, you know, having the ability to be able to care give because you had built this business in a way that requires you but in a different level than you being present and live all the time in certain hours of the day. And then as you continue to choose if you want to build a family or grow your business in any way, like you've created a foundation of this flexibility, which is amazing. Something that I've run into is questioning this as someone that already has children, right? It's I've been like, well, all these people build these businesses before they have kids, and then you go to build it after you have kids. It's just not the same. And I know and well enough now that that's not true. But what would you tell someone that's maybe saying, okay, my parents are sick, I have kids, I have these things. There's a reason I can't just get started and create something evergreen, because it takes a lot of work to build it right. But once it's built, it has more flexibility. So what would you tell that person that's like, I can't do this, because

I totally get that. And I get why you feel that way. And that's how I felt when my dad was sick. And I was his only caregiver, there was no one else no one was going to help him he didn't have anyone else in his life. And I swooped in, and it was a gay all hands on deck every day in the hospital, like a big hospital in the city kind of thing. So it took all day, every day. It was exhausting. And I thought the same thing. But I then thought to myself, and I would encourage you to do the same as like, how could this actually shaped my business and make it smarter. And I actually think like, if any of you played sports, or you had like some activity you were really into as a kid, like, you know, maybe you were like me where I think it actually pushed me to be a better student. Because I had such limited time I was like super focus. And so I can imagine being very similar to being a parent and just being like, I have very limited time, I would use that instead of saying that that's like an injury to you, you know, in building a business, I would actually look at how that could propel you to create something better than you would have. There are people out there who don't have kids don't have sick parents don't have other responsibilities, who are spinning their wheels for 12 hours a day, who aren't doing nearly as much as I am in my business because I am just laser focused. And so I actually think you can use that as a little bit of your own superpower. It might not also mean just like you said, Kelsey, like it might also mean you do it overnight, necessarily because it takes time right? And I never taught that like I did any of this very quickly or anything like that. It was more of the thought I had very quickly it was like when my dad got sick I was like I'm not gonna be able to do this like I was doing it. So how am I going to work to get out of this? How am I actually going to use this to make my self and my business better? Not like oh, this is this is happening to me and now there's nothing I can do. So I would kind of encourage you to think of it that way.

Yeah. It with business parenting karagin I mean, one of the things that you had said before is there's no right way to do this, right? There's no one size fits all, there's no right way to do this. And I think that's so applicable to everything. But when you do look for the steps before you, or leadership or mentorship, what are some of the people that are really impacted you? Or the concepts that are really impacted you? What are things that you're like? Yeah, because of this, I've been able to skip a couple steps or do this.

Yeah. So I actually think that it's like my lack of following anyone else. And really consuming to be honest, that really helped me. Because it's so funny. I often feel like I'm really unplugged really disconnected from like, the big people in our industry. And like, my friends talk about them. Like they're celebrities, and they're so like, involved, they know, like what's going on their lives, their businesses, their launches, their emails that I'm loose, like, Who has time for that? And I kind of think that that's like part of what I'm saying. It's like when when all this happened, it had to be like, we I have to draw up like any of that I've got to focus on like, what do I want to do? Now, I say that with the privilege of having been a corporate attorney, I had a lot of experience in business, you know, and I grew up the child of an entrepreneur, I had an understanding generally of how a business works. So for me, I actually see it as more of like dragging people down, that to consume a lot of content, I think it slows people down. And it also really limits people's vision of what's possible and available to them. Because like, when I created this business, there was nothing else like it. So it felt very limiting to be like, if I just looked at a league, there were other lawyers selling things. But if I looked at them, and treated like their business as almost like the standard, I would never have thought of any of the stuff that I ended up creating. So for me, it was just helpful to kind of like wipe the slate and not look at anything. I find a lot of inspiration from things outside of what we do. So like pop culture, things like favorite movies, favorite TV shows, music, when I'm out and about in being in nature really helps me like having quiet, that kind of stuff has really inspired me. And I would also encourage people to like get really clear on your values and like what kind of impact you want to leave on the world because especially an online business to I feel like people think about this very siloed. And like, we don't see a lot of people giving back or like we see them giving back. And like the online space where it's like, for me, for example, is really important to impact the environment. And so just recently, I bought like two beaches, no, no sponsor to beaches, that there's like a beach cleanup program, where I paid to have these, like baskets that people can pick up and pick up trash and put them back and someone comes and gets them. And so like that was just a thing. Like where I kind of stayed focused on and was inspired by this, like larger mission of people, I'm inspired by apps completely outside of this space, who are impacting the environment, for example. And like, I don't do anything in my business related to the environment, but my business can still have that impact. So I guess I take more of the inspiration from stuff like that.

I love that. And it allows you to really differentiate yourself as a human, not just business owner, but really feel like you're tapping into all these different parts of you. And while your business has helped you have the means to do some of those things, getting clear with what you want, who you are. And what's important to you is actually really more important than the means that come and give you the opportunity to do that. But if you don't have the foundation, first of knowing, hey, it'd be cool to be able to sponsor a beach and have this cleanup. Well, then once you get the money to be able to sponsor a beach, you don't know what you're gonna do with it. And you may be drownded out by you said all these other opinions and these things going on without staying true to you. And we touched on this a little bit, but I want to bring that back to Sam that was dying in her corporate job, you know, kind of blaming everyone for that it's really the same concept of getting clear on like, who you want to be and what brings you happiness. So let's expand on that a little bit more. Because I think that not only does that happen when you're in that corporate portion, but there are people that build their businesses and it happens again, they're like, What did I build? I don't even know if I like this. I'm not even excited about this. And that can happen even with family, people can have children and be like, do I really want to be a parent? I'm not actually sure. And it all comes back to in my opinion. Anyways, it all comes back to really honoring like who you are outside of all of these titles. So what are some of the ways that you've like refound yourself, whether it's from the corporate or sense you've created your business coming back to like Sam and the beaches and the things that you care about? When

I was a corporate attorney, I like I said, I blamed everything that I was upset about on being a lawyer or my boss who I thought was me and and like, all of these kinds of things. And then I thought that the business would just kind of straighten all that out for me. And then it was it was so interesting to be like, wait, I really love the work I'm doing now. So I've solved that problem. But why am I still feeling a little off? Right? And it was really interesting to see how much like, especially I don't know what it is, but when you create your own business, it's just very easy to like, make yourself also the business is like this weird meshing and you kind of don't think about anything else, you start getting all these friends you know, in the industry, you talk about it all the time, like you learn this new lexicon, it's just a, it's a really weird experience, I find, like having come from corporate to this. And so then I thought that I was like, Oh, the business is not making me super happy. Oh, that's because like my business, my job, my career, whether it's in whether you're in like a nine to five, or you have your own thing, that I don't think should really be the source of any of our happiness, I hope that it doesn't contribute to your misery. That's like a different story. And maybe you like love the people you work with, or like love going to work every day, but you don't like love the work or something like this, or vice versa. But I just think like developing yourself as a person more, you know, well rounded outside of what you do. And like, I always like when people say, like, at a cocktail party that like the first question that you should not ask is like, what do you do for fun? Because it's not defined really by just like, what's your job, I hope to be able to say like, Who are you kind of and have a lot of different answers. What do you like to do for fun? actually find it really interesting. When you ask people, What do you do for fun? People don't often have a lot of like, answers. So that's that. I mean, if you just ask yourself that, like if someone asked me that at a party, what would I say? What I realized is the business didn't give me happiness. But it gave me the opportunity to have the time, the resources to look and say, What do I want to do? And I do think by putting yourself out there so much in a business or in any other way, you do start to to really learn your preferences, I think pretty quickly, like I was somebody who was not very clear on like, who I kind of was and what my style wasn't what I wanted to do, and like what kind of person I wanted to be. But the business helped shape that pretty quickly. Yeah,

let's talk a little bit about like holding space for others and expanding like who you are in your mindset as you grow. Because I can assume the CM that you talked about that grew up in kind of a stressful home, is how to change that you said you went through some therapy, different things. But how did change some norms, thinking patterns, had to do some work to be able to hold the large business that you have employee, the team that you have, and really show up as that person? What are some of the pieces of advice that you have? Because I think so often maybe someone has the desire to start a business or even just step into a new role or lead differently as a parent? And they're like, Yeah, but how could I do that? Because I grew up this way. Or I did this. And we talked about this a little bit. But it's really like the more tangible steps to say like, yeah, when you don't have the money mindset to be a multi seven figure business owner here are how you get there. You do the work? And what is the work when you don't believe you are worthy of or that you're, that you're going to fail? If you employ all these people in that now their lives? Are you're responsible for them? What are some of the ways that you hold that now?

Yeah, so on the front end, like regardless of whether you're ever interested in business, or anything else, you can, you can, I think apply this to many areas of your life. But one of the things that was really helpful to me was that I started getting very clear on like, had this vision of what I wanted to become like what I wanted, in my case, my business to look like what I wanted my day to look like. And then I started looking at what I was doing at that time, and how like what the inconsistencies there, because I was like, Wait, the things I'm doing in my day to day right now, don't match up with like the day to day of the person I want to become. So what do I have to like, drop? What are some habits I have to drop? Or what are some of the habits I have to add in order to get me to be this person and like slowly but surely kind of chip away at that and move in that direction. I often talked about like acting like the person or the CEO or the wife, mother, sister, whatever that you want to become versus like what you are right now, that was super helpful for me for a lot of the other things, especially when it comes to business like having full time employees, like you said, stressful, it feels like pressure, right? Like having 1000s of customers come through the door, like having lots of eyeballs and feedback on social and everywhere else. I have to practice a lot of detachment from that that that is like not my problem. My mindset coach Jen Diaz, who I would love for you to like link to she has like wonderful, like journal prompts for people that are free and like great emails that she sends out every Monday. She's great on Instagram as well. She always says you're responsible to people but not for them. And I find that really helpful like I show up I do my job I produce good products. I'm not like a snake oil salesman, you know, I'm doing I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. Of course I make mistakes and I'm human, but I'm not responsible for like how people feel about every single thing that I do so if something upsets someone they're offended, they don't like me they don't like the product like that. I don't have to like take on that responsibility and that definitely goes back to those childhood stories of us all like thinking everything's our fault and taking things on if anybody else is like the product to divorce parents to like that's really common. And to think like, what did I do that caused any of these things? So I think practicing kind of that healthy detachment has been really helpful, too. Yeah.

And now let's expand that into the people that are in your world, right? So whether it's when you started your business, I'm sure there are people like, you're gonna go from being a lawyer to a health coach online. And then maybe on the flip side of that, now you meet people on a social aspect, and you're like, oh, yeah, I have this seven figure online business. But you how do you kind of separate that social aspect with who you are as a business woman, because you are sold, you are holy sin, but you're not solely Sam, the business woman and solely Sam, that made the decision to switch from corporate lawyer to health coach, as some people saw it, and everything else, you know?

Yeah, it's so true. I got a lot of judgment on the front end from the people who've been like, you're doing what like, and they thought it was crazy. And actually, a lot of those people I stopped being friends with that not not like the moment they said it. But I think that was probably the tip of the iceberg. And realizing like, they weren't people, for me, maybe ultimately, or they weren't, people were going to be happy for you. Like, I think everyone's probably had those friends in their life, but that are there for you like in that phase of your life. But once like something else changes, like you don't work together anymore, or you don't go to school together anymore. Everything changes. So that's one. And I think my friends, to me always says that there are friendship buckets, and like, it's okay to move people into different buckets and just be like, Oh, we're different kinds of friends. You know, it's so interesting. Now, like, in the middle of this journey, I would introduce myself because I have an online business. And I do this, and I do that. And I'm like, I was so excited about it. And now when I meet people, I'm just like, I'm a lawyer. I just like skip it, because I'm like, I don't even want to explain to them what I do. And it's really uncomfortable now, because what I have found, which is really strange, and I still don't know how to handle this, is that when I meet a new friend, and then they find me on social media, their whole attitude changes. And so it's like this, like, whoa, you have this big thing. And like, oh my gosh, and I was like you didn't care about like it, it was just like, they're completely different. Once they find out you have Instagram or whatever. And I'm like, I don't care about Instagram. And like, I just, it's not, I just want to be friends with you. I don't want to like talk about that kind of stuff. So now it's almost it's a weird thing. I almost feel like I want to hide from it sometimes and just be like, That's just my work. Like, I don't go to your work and like sit over your emails and be like, why are you writing that paragraph there? You know, that's kind of how I feel like when you're like stalking me on Instagram, and you don't do anything related to what I do. You know, I totally get that. I totally get that. Yeah.

And I think that really the message behind it all is like you have to do it for you. And you can't and the people that you're looking to impact and help. And you can't get caught up in the naysayers are the people that are really like living vicariously through you, but in a toxic way. And being like, Hey, I hope you find whatever it is for you. But like, stop doing it through me, you know, and just really showing up for yourself, which is always easier said than done. What are some of the ways that you've found the right friends that like get that and support you through that too?

Yeah, I think people who want to connect to talk I mean, for like what I do, especially it's like people who want to connect to talk more about like, what it's like to go through all this to to experience some of the growing pains, for example of growing a business the size, or what it's like on the back end of like dealing with employees, and like all that kind of stuff, versus the friends who only ever reached out to me to ask me like legal questions. That's always like a pretty big red flag for me these days. And like, who don't ever ask about other stuff? But I think for me, too, it's like, yeah, I want to go deeper about other things like How are your kids? Like, what's your what's your partner? Like? Where do you live? Like, I want to know more about their life and their business. And really, I guess, setting that boundary of like, Hey, I'm not here to just talk about my business. So I don't only want to hear about yours, either.

I love that. Sam, I can talk to you all day. We might have to have a part two, as your life pivots and goes through transitions of caregiving, and I'm can't wait to see what's next for you in business. You have an amazing podcast, let's talk about your podcast a little bit and some other ways that people can be expanded by you.

Yes. So obviously, if you like podcasts, I would love for you to come over and listen to minds called on your terms wherever you listen to your podcast. I have new episodes every single Monday and Thursday and I post about the behind the scenes of what it's really like to run and grow a multi seven figure business. I obviously also have legal tip episodes and marketing evergreen marketing episodes as well. So I'd love to chat with you over there. You can also visit me on my website, Sam vandermeulen.com. You can send me a message through there or find all the podcast episodes and the transcripts for them if you'd like that. And then obviously I sell legal templates and programs for you to learn how to legally protect your online business there as well into under social, I would like for you to come say hi to me on Instagram at Sam VanderMeulen on Instagram. But just don't like me because of Instagram

will like you for you, Sam, don't worry. So we probably have followers on a couple different boats right after this conversation, but I'm going to put them into two for final takeaways. So one person that has this pool to either step into a new position, a new role, maybe it's leaving the role and going home, but it's making a pivot making a switch making a change. And they're really like gonna get off this podcast if they were to take one action forward, because that's what I'm so about is I don't want you to get off of this podcast and be like, oh, yeah, I'm thinking about what Sam and Kelsey said for two weeks, and then you don't do anything. So if they're going to do one thing, after this podcast, what would that person do?

I would get very clear on what you actually want to help people with and start doing market research around whether that's a viable idea, because I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is that they follow like an idea that they have, but we don't make sure that that idea is really successful. And that's where you can kind of end up in a little bit of a trap. So I think if you like there's something on your heart that you would feel really happy doing and helping other people with, I would explore what does that look like? Is there demand for that? Is anyone already supplying it? You know, could this how what would this like roadmap, I guess, to launch look like. And that's what I would take a look at. I'd also encourage any of you who are listening to her in careers still, who even if you don't want to start your own business, you want to switch to a different career. My friend, Chris, she's at empowered achievers on Instagram. She's really, really great, like Career Clarity coach, and I love her content around this. And I just think I always see her stuff. And I'm like, Oh, if I would have had this when I was in corporate, I would have loved to watch her content to get because she helps people get clear on what they really want to do.

Yeah, I love that. So getting clear. And I think for anyone that's like, oh, well, I don't even know if I want to start a business. I think that's the first step right? It's getting clear and being like, what is it that you're passionate about? Because I can assume and I actually know, health is still a part of your world, it's, you're just not a health coach anymore. So it doesn't mean that maybe if you're really like, I'm feeling called to health or business or whatever, that might not be your business. But how do you make it part of your life more? How do you show up and serve yourself and others in different ways, with whatever is calling you? How can you get a new job in that field, you can go hang out with Sam's friend, get some clarity around that. But it doesn't mean it has to be the business. So then the other bucket of people, maybe they are in business, or they're in a role that has to do with what they're doing. But there's they're holding themselves back. This is probably happened throughout your business journey where like, Man, I'm just kind of getting in my own way. I'm not taking that next step forward. I know that I have everything I need to really take action. What would you say to that person that's like, just really in their own way right now.

I would get very clear on this vision of what you actually want to become and why and take the time to envision what that means you're doing with your day? What kind of support do you have around you or not have around you like, what do your weeks and months look like? And then compare that to what you're doing now and see, take a real honest, I think, look and audit as like, if I'm doing these steps of everything I'm doing right now, today? How am I ever going to get over there to where I want to, you know, if you're marching in place, how are you ever going to get a mile down the road? So I think that's always a helpful place to start. When you're maybe feeling like you're in your own way and seeing what can I clear what can I add and start moving? I also I'm just a big believer in like trying something different. And being an experimenter if you've been trying things that it's not working, try something different. And try it for consistently for long enough that you can actually track it and see how it goes. Yeah,

I love that. Well, Sam, thank you so much. What is a goal that you're currently working on? Or something you're excited about? That we can all be inspired by?

Oh, well, I am hoping that my book lands at a big five publisher so that I am I'm very, like determined to make happen. And I should know within the next month or two. So like I'm really excited about that. And also just taking better care of myself after being a caregiver for so long. And so I'm like looking forward to being able to do that.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Sam. Thank you all for listening. We'll see you next week. Sometimes the smallest acts of love is all a mom needs to feel reinvigorated. If you can relate to that I'd feel so supported by your five star rating and written review. Take a moment and let me know what you thought about this episode.