Ep. 238: Elizabeth Winings DNP, APRN - Mental Health Breakthroughs Through Nutrition and Community

Episode 238 • 29th February 2024 • PLANTSTRONG Podcast • Rip Esselstyn

[0:00] I'm Rip Esselstyn, and you're listening to the PLANTSTRONG Podcast.

Today, I am super pumped to introduce you to an integral member of our PLANTSTRONG team, Dr.Elizabeth Winings. You'll understand why PLANTSTRONG retreats are so powerful when you meet our medical director behind these transformative weeks, right after this word from PLANTSTRONG.

[0:32] When guests arrive at our PLANTSTRONG retreats, they expect a week of delicious PLANTSTRONG meals and playful activity and all kinds of educational lectures.

But the real magic happens when the community starts bonding and forming friendships with one another.

We know that there's a connection between our mind, our mood, and food, and our retreats provide the perfect intersection of all three.

Sometimes it's very emotional for people.

Understanding and unpacking the power of this interlude is none other than Dr.

Elizabeth Winings, and it is her specialty.

Dr. Winings is is a family mental health psychiatric nurse practitioner, that's quite the mouthful, who specializes in the relationship between diet, lifestyle, and mental health.

She has a private practice in Jacksonville, Florida called Winings Wellness, and she's an assistant professor of nursing at Jacksonville University.

[1:45] Twice a year, she serves as medical director for our retreats where she helps people understand and navigate their emotions in a super compassionate way.

These aha moments are the special sauce of our week-long retreats, and Dr.

Elizabeth Elizabeth Winings is a critical component of creating safe spaces with us.

[2:08] Enjoy getting to know Dr. Winings.

[2:15] Elizabeth Winings, what is going on? It's just a beautiful day in Jacksonville, Florida, hanging out.

You and I have known each other now for, is it seven years?

Yes. Does that sound about right to you? Yeah. Seven years. Yeah.

And we first met, I believe it was in Sedona, Arizona.

[2:37] Yeah. Great memory. And you came to be part of our medical team.

And then obviously you now have been our medical director for a couple of years, which has been absolutely phenomenal.

[2:55] And I want to dive into that in a second. But first, I want to ask you a couple of questions.

So in: 2023

[3:12] Oh, you did look at my Instagram. At work, at home and in your relationships.

So what exactly does that mean to you to show up as me in all those cases?

Yeah. Yeah. So I think culturally we have a lot of different messages and some of them can be really helpful and some can create barriers to us showing up as our fullest self.

And so I think that I'm someone who has received a lot of messaging throughout my life to be respectful of others, to let others speak first, to be supportive, to be a team player.

And so I think Even though I have positions of leadership and have accomplished a lot of things professionally, I really do hesitate to speak up or speak out or maybe even just say, hey, I can do that.

] In: 2023

It's been a lot of fun. And so it takes courage to do something like that.

But I think it also is rewarding because if we don't say things that we're interested in or ask to do them, people can't read our minds. So then we aren't going to get those opportunities.

So has it been...

Uncomfortable going outside your comfort zone and doing this, but it sounds like it's paying off. Yeah, absolutely.

So it's the right kind of growth.

So whether you're an athlete or not, we do things that create discomfort, whether that's stressing a muscle or stretching our mind.

And then that leads to resilience and helps us to do things in the future.

So I would say Hey,: 2023

] In: 2024

What exactly does that mean? It means I'm fully present with you right now.

So wherever my feet are. So I'm someone who has a couple of obligations. congregations.

I'm a wife, a mother, a professor at a university.

I own a private practice. I'm a part of your team, right? So I have all of these areas of my life that I have lists running in my brain.

And sometimes it can be easy to daydream, right?

I might be present with someone in a conversation and running a couple checks in my mind on other things that I need to do.

And so So I'm really working on being fully present. So being where my feet are planted.

And I think the Sharzais talk a lot about this, right? If we're trying to multitask, we're just inefficient.

So we might as well go all in and be fully present where we are.

[6:09] Boy, could I ever use a dose of that? Yeah, it's hard.

I think it takes being intentional in choosing to be fully present.

Have you found, is there a trick to that or something that you focus on?

Because I find sometimes my mind just starts to wander. Like I'm in conversations or wherever I am and I'm thinking about other things.

I mean, there must be some sort of an exercise or something that you can practice to make you present in the moment where you are.

[6:45] There are a lot of different ways to practice mindfulness. So I think this is an exercise in mindfulness.

And one that I think is really easy to do, whether you're interested in being mindful or not, is activating your five senses.

And it doesn't take long at all. and it's actually a skill that we teach in therapy.

And so it's called five, four, three, two, one.

And so you start with five things that you see, and this is all internal.

So it's not something that you're sharing with others. You just think of, okay, five things you see.

And you see a lamp. I see a TV. I see a fire helmet. I see a wall.

I see. Oh, I shouldn't say that out loud. You can, if you want to, you're a great student. unit.

[7:26] So yeah, so you do, so you do your five senses, five things you can see, four things you can feel, three things you can hear, two things you can smell, and then one thing you can taste.

And so this just helps you draw attention to where you are.

So three things I can hear, like traffic outside my door, the hum of the air conditioner, and then your voice, would that be like three? Exactly.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And then, I'm sorry, I'm trying to play along here.

And then two, what would, what did you say two are? Two things you can smell.

Oh, wow. I only smell just, I smell, I smell strawberries because I had some strawberries and I smell chlorine off my skin. There you go.

From this morning. Yeah.

And then one thing you can taste. And so sometimes individuals might not have a taste in their mouth, but they have a water bottle nearby or, you know, can have a peppermint or something like that.

But this is a way to start growing that mindfulness muscle and taking in what am I actually doing right now or what's around me.

And it's pretty quick. It is. It is.

So could you repeat that one more time? Five, four, three, two, one. What's the five, four, the three, the two, and the one? Five things you can see.

Okay. Four things you can feel, three things you can hear, two things you can smell, and one thing you can taste. Mm-hmm.

] Delicious. So let me, so in: 2023

What exactly is Winings Wellness? Mm-hmm.

So Winings Wellness is an outpatient mental health clinic that specializes in mental health care and lifestyle medicine.

So we believe in preventative mental health care, And then we also believe in the way that you live impacting how you feel, whether that's physical, emotional, or mental.

And what's unique about our team is we're really passionate about working with children and families.

Why the bias or why the bent on children?

Is that just because you have a certain love and affinity for kids?

I definitely have a love and affinity for kids. But when we think about this concept of prevention, we should start with children.

[9:51] And whenever you're working with children, you're working with a family system.

And so you have the opportunity to impact more than just that child because a change in a child's lifestyle must be supported by their family, by their family system, by their parents.

And so some people choose not to go into pediatrics because it is a little more complex.

You're working with children and parents. but I think it's a lot of fun. And so does my team.

And so we really enjoy that. We enjoy the work with a child or adolescent and their parent.

[: 10:22

So when I first graduated with my undergraduate degree in nursing, nursing.

I genuinely believe that I would be working in the acute care setting.

I was really passionate about emergency medicine and I had the privilege of doing a residency program at the Veterans Affairs Hospital in Gainesville, Florida.

And thank you to all of our veterans and active duty members.

It's such a wonderful population.

It really is a unique healthcare environment to to work in, so I learned a lot.

[: 11:07

And I started to realize people are really living in the patterns that are familiar to them and they're highly resistant to change despite serious consequences.

[: 11:37

And that was really shocking to me that they were having such severe consequences to a disease that I had been taught was at least manageable at that time, not necessarily now where we hear a lot of language around disease reversal for diabetes. So it was still very confusing.

And I would talk to the surgeons and anyone who would listen, you know, asking questions, who talks to these individuals about their nutrition or how they feel that they came here with two feet and now they have one.

And unfortunately, our system was doing what it was designed to do at that time.

So if an individual had a successful surgery and was discharged without an infection, that was considered progress.

But it wasn't necessarily life-saving because these individuals were continuing to have consequences of diabetes.

So that led to a lot of conversations between me and other providers.

And it started to create this tension in me where I was realizing maybe I'm not going to be happy working in the acute care setting.

And so I thought, I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to go work in the ER because that's where you see acute care.

[: 12:59

And yes, we were providing life-saving care and doing CPR and all kinds of more emergent things, but I still wasn't content.

And I was was realizing I didn't know what I wanted to do.

And so I had this really amazing undergraduate nursing professor, um, professor, um, Joe Snyder, and I would reach out to her and ask her different questions.

And she was my mental health professor as an undergrad.

And she would say, I think you need to go into mental health.

And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That is not for me.

[: 13:54

[: 14:06

Could you talk to your parents about how you felt?

Did teachers ask you what was going on? Because when we tell our life stories, sometimes there are moments where we're able to think, I wonder what would have happened if somebody knew what was going on or just sat with with me and let me talk this through.

[: 14:30

And I am there for my day and I was able to see her talk to children and adolescents.

She would play with them. And after the day ended, I looked at her and I said, I've never met anyone like you.

I had no idea this was a real job. You get to talk to kids about how they think and feel and guide their parents. This is what I want to do.

And so that was a very pivotal moment for me as someone in healthcare where I wanted to make a difference.

And I do think I make a difference.

[: 15:10

I know it wasn't for me growing up, something that I knew, and it's what I experienced in my clinic.

Parents are so excited to have someone who just wants to hear what it's like taking care of their kid.

And so all of that to say, you don't have to have a crisis or a clinical diagnosis, to talk to a therapist or to talk to a health coach or to seek a health expert.

[: 15:45

And so we're kind of in this conundrum where we're trying to make a change.

And I do think change is happening and change is coming.

But specifically in the pediatric world, we get to do a lot more screening and health education. And so I think it's more common in our world that we're doing things without...

I want there to be more without a crisis or a medical diagnosis.

We want to prevent those things.

You have a son. How old is Rory now?

He is two. So Rory's two.

[: 16:35

[: 16:51

Because your time is no longer your own. You're keeping a human alive.

And then it gave me a lot of respect for parents in realizing many families have more than one child of varying ages.

And then all of a sudden your kids have schedules and homework and sports and all these things.

And so I think it gave me an increased awareness and compassion for what a family can accomplish.

So I knew those things were going on previously, but I think it gave me more compassion towards the lived experience of a family system system.

And respect for parents. I mean, parents are amazing.

[: 17:47

Everyone is doing the best they can with what they have. Yes.

And I think our society doesn't necessarily give us that messaging all the time.

And so then And we're thinking we're supposed to do more, do better, achieve when really...

I don't know that that brings more value, right? If we slow down and we're fully present, then we can absorb more from our experiences and feel more connected to ourselves and others.

[: 18:24

You said when you were working with those Army veterans that had type 2 diabetes and they were going to lose a limb or a toe or a foot or their leg below the knee, and you you knew that there was a way through nutrition that they could probably prevent this from happening.

When did you come across and become so passionate about the power of kind of a PLANTSTRONG diet slash lifestyle to help people?

[: 19:01

And again, I was talking to everyone on the floor, just asking questions because I really felt like we're missing something.

And I do think that it was a wonderful hospital system and it was doing what it was created to do, but patients were still having surgeries and suffering.

So there was a phenomenal registered dietitian and she gave me the book, The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan.

And she said, you should watch this movie. It's called Forks Over Knives.

And so at that time, I had a schedule where I had days off during the week.

And so I watched Forks Over Knives, Fat, Sick, Nearly Dead, and Food, Inc., which were documentaries at that time that were pretty astounding.

[: 19:53

So he was gone on a 24-hour shift. And he came home and I cleaned out the refrigerator and cleaned out the pantry and said, we're doing a 10-day test drive of this.

If this is true, we have to try it. So I'm an all or nothing type person.

[: 20:17

I'm not perfect by any means and I don't advocate for that. I don't think any human is perfect.

But for me, when you have science and the lived experience that match up, it's really really hard to deny that it's something you should pay attention to.

[: 20:42

I'm very grateful for that. Yeah, absolutely.

[: 20:59

Yes. And so for people that don't kind of know exactly what that means, what does a nurse practitioner do and how is a nurse practitioner different from like a doctor? Great question.

Nurse practitioners are first and foremost nurses.

So to be a nurse practitioner, you must have gone through the education and training to be a registered nurse.

So we're uniquely trained in the nursing model, which is a person-centered model with a heavy emphasis on prevention.

And so nurse practitioners can specialize in a variety of areas.

So I specialized in psychiatric mental health care. So I'm board certified in that across the lifespan.

My clinical experience, I've subspecialized in the pediatric area.

You can specialize in acute care as a nurse practitioner.

You can specialize as a family nurse practitioner, a gerontology nurse practitioner.

So there's a variety of other specialties. What's unique about nurse practitioners is our training builds off our nursing training.

[: 22:07

And so it's a bit shorter when you look at the timeline from medical school to residency to fellowship for physicians.

[: 22:20

And our training is intentional and on purpose. And we have the national standards and certifications that support that.

That. Something that's really interesting, nurse practitioners were actually developed out of a need for providers in rural areas or underserved communities.

o if you trace it back to the: 1960

And in the 1970s, that was a big boom. And that's where we started to see nursing academia come around.

board for our training until: 2000

So my subspecialty of nurse practitioners is 24 years old.

So it's still relatively young when you think about it that way.

[: 23:19

We're independently licensed providers.

[: 23:26

Some settings are built for that and others place us in settings alongside physicians or with physician assistants so it depends on where you where you go with your training and as a nurse practitioner you can also write prescriptions right i can yes.

[: 23:51

[: 23:54

So if anybody's listening and you're interested in a wonderful field, would you recommend?

Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. What I teach in it, it's the most rewarding.

I'm biased, right? It's the only professional job I've had.

But I would say even in teaching and seeing the students that choose to go into nursing and into nurse practitioner roles, they're highly satisfied.

And there's a lot of opportunities.

So you can practice inpatient, outpatient at camps, working with, you know, the PLANTSTRONG retreats.

So all of that to say, yes, being a nurse is a rewarding job.

So if anyone is interested in that level, you can do so much with being a registered nurse, and there's a lot of programs nationally, and then also a nurse practitioner.

And fun fact, at Jacksonville University, where I teach, the psychiatric nurse practitioner track is now, I can't speak to the current application pool, but we're competing with the family nurse practitioner track as far as the number of people who are applying, which is really cool to see an interest in mental health care.

[: 25:17

We need more people in all areas of mental health care.

So whether that's just a therapist or, and I don't mean that in a negative way, like just a therapist, I'm saying it all plays a role.

So if you're interested in health care and you want to go into mental health, there are national initiatives for providers in all aspects.

So therapists, psychologists, medical school, psychiatrists, or nursing, nurse practitioners.

Yeah. Yeah. I know I've been mentioning this on the podcast with a lot of my different guests, but just how mental health just seems to be something that so many Americans are.

[: 26:02

[: 26:12

Yeah. And I think you're right. COVID, it shook everything up.

So, so whether it's, there is an increase in the number of people experiencing anxiety or a stressor, right?

We were all experiencing something that no one had ever lived through.

So it makes sense that there was this global increase in anxiety and anxiety is not all bad.

If we didn't have anxiety, we wouldn't brush our teeth. We wouldn't, we wouldn't care about certain things.

So there's an amount of anxiety that we need, but when it reaches that tipping point where it's clinical, that is concerning.

[: 27:12

We're supposed to have thoughts and feelings and opinions.

And so the more that we create safe places to have those conversations, then people can feel seen and known and like they belong.

And I think we experienced that at our retreats where people are thrilled to feel connected and seen.

And I'm not sure that we all have that in our day-to-day lives. Mm-hmm. No.

And I think that for the, however long that COVID lasted, two and a half years or two years, and the social isolation that was associated with that, and the intense amount of screen time, um.

[: 28:09

And it, and it hit the, I think the crazy thing is it hit, let's, I'll just speak for America.

It hit like the 360 million Americans all at once.

And so now we're having to deal with that.

You're having to deal with, if you're isolated at home, with being with people that you love and adore, but maybe not for nine hours, 10 hours, 12 hours straight, 24-7, right?

All day, every day. So yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think to your point, even in the best case scenario where you love your family and you like your family, being stuck with them for an undisclosed period of time, like we didn't know how long things were going to be the way that they were.

[: 29:19

And it makes sense that that would be anxiety provoking or there'd be grief associated with that or stressors.

And so... Totally.

So you say that...

[: 29:45

And there's a lot of lessons that kind of continue to guide you.

And you made a top 10 list.

Yes. So what I'd love to do, because I think that this top 10 list would be very beneficial for people just as they're walking through their lives.

Okay. So I'd love to go through that with you and then just have you speak a little bit on each one.

[: 30:20

And I can't tell you how many times I worry alone and I don't share it with different people.

And it's obviously not healthy. And I think as soon as you, you know, you, you share some of that burden that you're feeling and you show that vulnerability, um, it, it, it's eased quite a bit.

[: 30:46

And it also is, well, I just have to show you this.

So these are our pins for our organization.

And it says never worry alone because that's how much we believe in it.

And we were thinking, do we put our phone number? Do we put our website?

Nobody. What do you do when you get that? You Google it. So we were like, we want something meaningful and tangible.

And this is what we, so I show you this because if you are a student in my classroom or a patient in my office, this.

We're going to talk about this on day one, because the reality is no matter what our messaging has been from our family system or the culture we grew up in, human beings are supposed to live in community.

So if something is making you go, or whatever it is, if it is just in there.

[: 31:48

What's really phenomenal is there are free resources available in the United States and there are some globally.

I'm not as well versed in those. But in the United States, we have the crisis text line.

So there's also the suicide lifeline. So the crisis text line is 741-741.

And you just text that number, the word life, L-I-F-E. and you're immediately connected with a crisis counselor.

There's also the Suicide Prevention Lifeline, which is now a number that you could call or text, and that's 988.

So I share those because some individuals may truly not have a person in their lived experience that they want to share something with.

And these are free resources that we do have in the United States and then also healthcare providers.

But this could be as simple as telling a friend or a trusted resource. resource.

[: 32:49

No one can read your mind. So be clear, use the language that you can.

So sometimes we don't know what we want to say.

Maybe we need to spend some time journaling. Maybe we need to go for a run.

Maybe we need to move our body.

Maybe you're not somebody who likes to move. But I say that because Because when we change our environment, sometimes that can help us identify what we want to say.

Or when we spend more time in our own thoughts, we can get to a place where we can be clear. So clarity is kind.

It's important to use language that conveys what we want or what we mean and not expect others to interpret it.

And so to the best of our abilities, be clear and say what we mean or what we need. and in kind ways, but also clarity is just kind.

[: 33:48

She's going to be an absolute grouch monster all day Sunday.

And it's going to affect her, you know, going to school on Monday.

And I say, listen, no, I'm happy if you want to go and I'll I'll pick you up at 11 p.m. Yeah. But the answer is no.

And then there's the pushback and not necessarily a tantrum, but there's a lot of- Disappointment. I want to be with my friends. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. And if I'm not sleeping over, it's not the same thing.

Right. Right? Right. Yeah. So I try and be clear there.

I mean, as clear as I can. I think that's a great example to say, I want to be thoughtful of your social needs as a teenager.

You want to hang out with your friends, but I'm also thoughtful about your health and your sleep.

So if you want to go, you can go till 11.

Yeah. Clarity is time. Yeah. Well, but see, parenting is hard.

I think that's a great example.

Yeah. But in parenting, I think it's also important with our kids.

So if we say yes to something, follow through. If we say no, don't do it to the best of your ability. Yeah.

[: 35:15

So is this just kind of like the, listen, life is busy and we have to be ruthless and prioritize accordingly.

That is what it is. So if I get an invitation to be on Rip Esselstyn's podcast, it's either a hell yes or a no.

And it was a hell yes. It's a hell yes.

Again, every person has a lot of things going on and so many people people, him and ha, and they go, oh, but, and then they talk themselves into something they don't want to do, or they talk themselves out of something they do want to do.

This was something I chose to practice. So like this year, my, my practice is be where my feet are planted.

me, this hell yes life was my: 2021

So I keep it. If it works, to keep it. So what I do is I go with my gut instinct.

[: 36:23

And obviously there are contextual things, right?

So picking your kids up from school, you may not want to do it.

This doesn't apply to every single life decision, but this does, I think, apply to the things that when you find yourself stuck, when you're not sure to say yes or no, see if you can trace back to what was your initial instinct?

Were you like, yes, this is exciting. Or if you were uncertain, you probably don't want to do it. It's incredible.

Especially I find now, you know, running this, this food company and being the CEO of it and how many decisions have to be made like on a daily basis and how indecisiveness, especially in business where speed is everything is, is an absolute killer.

And so you, you, you, you try and just, you know.

[: 37:27

Yeah. Yeah. And I do agree with you.

And decisions should still be informed, but then trust your gut and move on. Yeah.

Elizabeth Weining's list for: 2024

Of course, I love these qualities, but it's something that was so important it made number four on your list. Yeah.

[: 38:04

[: 38:07

So what I mean by that is if we do not have insight into the way that we are, we can keep patterns that might not be serving us.

That could be personally or professionally. professionally and so if we're self-reflective and we think how did that interaction go or did I give that my best effort and we're curious so curiosity could just look like our own curiosity it also could like look like getting feedback from others like hey rep what did you think about that conversation we had did I come off a little too strong you know how did that land with you.

So getting curiosity from others.

And I think this just is a really nice way to move through life. And, it helps you develop a little bit of self-compassion. Like we don't get it right all the time. Yeah.

Well, I really like that about being curious maybe about how asking other people, how did I come off?

Was I whatever? Was I overbearing? Was I mean? Was I?

[: 39:22

So we're constantly checking ourselves because when we're working with a client or a patient, it's not about us.

So if something is coming into that session, that is our emotion or our experience, we need to work on that.

We need to take care of that so that we're not bringing it into that experience.

Well, and it's so it's so is applicable to parenthood. Right.

And what and what are we what are we bringing to our or inadvertently overlaying on top of our kids?

Right. Yes. And oh, boy. Yeah, but that's beautiful.

And I dream, I'm going to say this, even though I'm going to be brave.

I have a dream that it's either going to be a book or a series, like a parenting seminar.

It's not about you, but it really is. Like, that's my working thought in my brain.

[: 40:34

Our goal as parents is to raise successful, independent humans who are going to go out into the world and do great things.

But we get in our own ways. And so anyways, I might need a softer title, but that's what I'm working with.

Well, I like it. I like it a lot.

[: 40:57

Is interesting to me. Choose the next best thing. Yeah.

Yeah. So not, don't use the best thing, or are you saying if you can't get it, then choose the next best thing? What do you mean by that?

[: 41:15

So if you are someone moving through your day and you have a lot of stuff going on, this could be also the ruthless useless prioritizing. Just pick the next best thing.

Because the reality is the time that you spend overthinking and not doing, you're not doing.

So just pick the next best thing based on your resources at that time.

Right, right. As opposed to, hold on, let me overthink this.

Let me overthink this for a minute and then get on a device and mindlessly scroll or or choose something else.

So if you can just choose the next best thing.

And I work with a lot of children and adolescents. So we're talking a lot about decision-making.

And sometimes I'm working with children who have ADHD and are highly impulsive.

And so we're practicing decision moment by moment. And so this is something that I think is just really important.

Choose the next best thing. It might not be the best best or like this overarching goal, But if you string together a lot of next best decisions, you'll probably be happy with the outcome.

[: 42:29

[: 42:34

And it also sounds like you're looking for silver lining for somebody that may have wanted a certain achievement.

[: 42:51

Let's take it. Yes. That's exactly what it means. It's give yourself credit.

So I think we're our own biggest critics and we live in a culture where we could compare ourselves to anyone truly with social media and internet and all the things.

So whether that's a personal experience or professional.

So this actually has been a professional motto of mine.

Slow growth is still growth uh and it's serving me well and i i see it applied in a lot of different ways so to your point in persons who are working towards a change our brains are programmed to go towards well this didn't work or i could have done it better and we're not all very good some people are good at seeing the positive so acknowledging growth is really really important, even if it's small.

[: 43:55

Yeah. We talked about this with parents, right? Yeah. This is exactly what it means.

People are doing the best that they can with the resources they have.

And this is a personal belief.

This is how I move through the world. It helps me to have compassion and curiosity.

If I'm in a moment where something is difficult or I'm not not enjoying an interaction with someone, it's a very helpful reminder.

It helps me be kind and more patient.

And so I offer that to anyone.

If you want to adopt this thought that everyone is doing the best that they can with the resources they have and see how that impacts the way you move through the world, I think it helps build compassion.

Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. I mean, I mean, we have no idea what this next person or whoever, what they're going through, how their day's been, how their life has been. Sure. Right?

Right. And just waking up and getting to work may be a huge victory for them. Correct.

And so I like that. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

[: 45:11

What does that look like for you?

[: 45:27

I do this with my son, who's two. We talk about the things that we're grateful for.

We talk about it on the way to school. So I build things into my routine.

This is actually something I've been doing since high school. Wow.

And the days that I don't do it, I notice.

And so there's a lot of academic literature on this.

Practicing gratitude is good for us. And so if we choose to do it daily, then we will reap the benefits of it.

[: 46:06

Come to the South. Grits and greens.

Or read Jane's cookbook for anyone who's listening.

Um, yes. Okay. So wait, let me think for a second. Grits, um, puffy jacket for the warmth.

Yeah, it was cold and we had to pick jackets. So puffy jacket and school.

[: 47:02

We love our school. Yeah. So you're okay. Good.

[: 47:11

All in one.

Do you know anything about that stuff? We just finished a seven-day PLANTSTRONG challenge.

Yeah. And we recommended all of those things. So yeah. So obviously we're huge fans of that. Yes.

Yeah. I mean, this is what we live and teach at PLANTSTRONG, right? This is so vital.

This should be number one, but it's number nine on my list. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Number 10, behavior is a form of communication.

[: 48:01

[: 48:08

So behavior is a form of communication.

And this is something really important that we overlook as adults.

So we can talk about developmental stages and when behavior as a form of communication should get really small, right?

Seeing adults screaming and crying and having tantrums should be alarming versus a two-year-old where like, they must want something. So...

It's just important. That's an extreme example. Someone not calling you back is a form of communication.

So it's not necessarily an active form of communication, but it's all circumstantial.

But the point is our behavior means something.

So we should be thoughtful of it. And also if we're in a circumstance and we're not really sure what's going on or we're getting conflicting messages, somebody is saying something and doing something else, then we might need to consider the possibility that their behavior is communicating their real intention.

So it's hard to really drive that one home without specific examples, but that's what it means.

So a lot of nonverbal communication going on there. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Or behavior.

[: 49:35

I want to, I want to spend a second, you know, because you and I have such commonality at our retreats, right?

And we typically do two a year, you know, one in Black Mountain, thanks to you who introduced us to this incredible location outside of Asheville, North Carolina, where you went to camp where you met your husband, Jordan.

And so anyway, it's such an incredible location with such a great vibe.

And then of course, Sedona. But as our medical director of the last couple of years, you get to see some of these life-changing results firsthand in our participants.

So what do you think, from your vantage point, what do you think it is that we provide that is so life-changing for some of these participants? Yeah.

I love our retreats. I love them. And so first, I have to thank you for having me on the team.

And I have to thank Cameron O'Connell and Dr. Clapper for bringing me in all those years ago.

And really, the opportunity to learn under Dr. Clapper.

[: 51:00

And I'm incredibly grateful for his investment and me. And then I have to think about why do participants have a life-changing experience at our events?

Yes, the food matters. Yes, the activity matters. But then I have to think about from their first exposure, right?

Sending an email or making a phone call and getting to interact with Lori or John and then showing up.

And they're getting out of their van or their car with luggage and they're being greeted by Brian Hart and Kristen Turner, John Fitzgerald, me, Lori, you, Jane, right?

Elise Jones, right? So our entire team is fully present from the jump and we're a part of the entire week.

And so I think we uniquely as a team are passionate about this work and the people that we have the privilege of working with. I don't think any of us take it for granted.

And so we're just so excited. And then we get to meet people and hear their stories.

And so we're creating this group, this community of belonging for a week.

And I can remember my very first immersion, even my second, and hearing you all talk about that.

Oh, we can't wait for this group to form, you know. And I was thinking, seriously?

[: 52:28

And it's so cool. Every time, right?

Subgroups form. And so, so I think what sets our program apart is the facilitation, you know, it's led by you.

You are uniquely gifted at being present and listening to people's stories and remembering details and highlighting daily things, right?

Like at the beginning of the day or in the evenings and And we play, right? There's games, there's dancing.

And sometimes I wonder for our participants, when's the last time that you just did something silly like play, you know, a kickball game or dance in a talent show?

[: 53:24

But I think if that was all we needed, we wouldn't have jobs because at this point, right, like we know we need to eat fruits and vegetables.

[: 53:41

Mm hmm. Well, you know, until you've been to one, you don't realize how afterwards the food becomes very secondary.

And what becomes like primary is I'm going to say kind of getting outside your own little skin and your mind and and and learning again how to how to play.

Play, how to be, you know, that inner, that inner child, each and every one of us that has been squashed, that has been basically pushed and stuffed into a closet.

All of a sudden it is given permission to come out and to shine in ways that I think a lot of other social situations and environments, um, stifle it. Stifle.

Exactly. And we encourage it. We encourage it.

And I can't, forget to mention Adam said, who's, you know, crucial to some of the elements of our event and our team, but also our silliness, right?

I think all of us have unique gifts that we bring.

And I think because our team is diverse, many people feel comfortable.

[: 55:08

And I think one of the things that you mentioned, Adam said, we very intentionally have Adam give his talk on the second day.

Yeah. We rewrote the whole, yeah.

Yeah. Because Adam, for those of you that don't know, was a drug addict, was almost 350 pounds, was suicidal, and has turned his life around like no human being I've ever seen.

Right. And sustained it. And sustained it, married, incredible career path with everything whole food, plant-based, plant-based and what he's doing with drug.

Plant-based for positive change, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And written scientific papers and everything. But Adam, I think, cracks open.

[: 56:12

I'm going to be vulnerable. Yeah, it's safe to be vulnerable here.

And I want people to see me for who I am.

I'm not going to try and hide and pretend to be something I'm not. Let's do this.

Yeah. Yeah. And then we have Krile there who is, it's great because I think she adds this element of, I don't know, Krile's just phenomenal, but I'm thinking like youthfulness and she's documenting all of it.

And so it's really fun to be able to reflect on this joy that we experience and the moments are captured in a candid way. So I'm really grateful for that addition.

And I just have a lot of fun with her.

The other thing that makes me think of is –.

[: 57:05

Like we, it's really cool. I feel like our brains have created this capacity for like each event we like bookmark or something.

So anyways, that's something that I've enjoyed. And when we've had Plant-Stock in person, you know, and then we see people and we're like, oh, my goodness, I remember seeing you in Sedona or welcome back to Black Mountain, all those things.

That's been really cool to see our team's relational capacity that we really do care.

Right. We invest, we care, and we love hearing from people as they continue on their their personal path. Big time.

And one of the things that you've done over the last year and a half is we have you now giving a really fantastic lecture that you've cultivated called Mind, Mood, and Food Connection.

And, you know, you talk about how this is an emerging science and you have such a great understanding of depression and anxiety and how it can impact a person's ability to make a behavior change.

[: 58:24

[: 58:35

And so it would be kind of silly for us to think what we eat doesn't impact our brain.

Our brain is what generates our thoughts. Our brain is what generates our emotion.

There are two really cool emerging areas of science.

Many of you have heard of the gut microbiome, the gut-brain connection.

It's real. It's important. We need to keep researching it. We need a better understanding of it.

Most of our serotonin within our body is found in our gut serotonin is a neurotransmitter that is targeted when we talk about prescribing medication for the treatment of depression and anxiety, and so those medications are targeting serotonin receptors so it's really important when we think about this intervention being one of our primary choices right now in modern medicine for treating depression and anxiety.

[: 59:30

We need to be researching that. We need to be funding those studies.

And so there are studies that have been done, more are needed.

So it's important when we think about the academic literature, we really want a deep body of evidence.

We want to be able to have multiple peer-reviewed studies. But what we have that I really discuss in my study is we know that our neurotransmitters, so serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, GABA, glutamate, they're made up of amino acids.

And amino acids are protein.

[: 1:00:13

So serotonin and dopamine require essential amino acids.

So your body needs to consume this from somewhere.

So an essential amino acid, our body cannot make. So non-essential means our body can manufacture that for us.

And so if our body needs to consume something, shouldn't we get it directly from the source?

And so when we look at where does an amino acid come from, many people If you're listening to this podcast, you know it's plants, but many people still commonly would say meat, but the reality is it's plants.

And so the more that we dive into this research, I think we're just going to find a resounding eat more real food, eat whole food, plant-based, and the rest of these things will start to get less popular.

[: 1:01:13

So selective serotonin- Reuptake inhibitors, yes.

[: 1:01:27

So again, the research is preliminary, but my belief is yes.

So here's what's important to know. A selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor is not generating new serotonin molecules within your body.

It's actually manipulating your body's ability to use serotonin.

And so it's working to increase the efficiency of your body's use of serotonin.

So you're not actually taking in more. So you need to eat well.

You need to be eating the food that contains the precursors to serotonin.

This is not, I am not saying do not take medication. I prescribe medication.

I do believe that it plays a role in the treatment of mental illness.

And I think that it's really important if it's working for you, that you stay the course and that you collaborate with your healthcare provider.

But I also think if you're not eating a whole food plant-based diet, you should consider trying to increase fruits and veggies and whole grains and legumes in your diet and And see what you notice for those symptoms, because you might see an improvement in your quality of life and a reduction in your experience of depression symptoms or anxiety symptoms.

[: 1:02:50

And, you know, as a medical provider, director at our retreats, you're actually actively helping people titrate down, in some cases, discontinue.

You, what are your thoughts on A, bringing people down off their medication or just continuing it?

And B, when so many people in the medical field have told these people, you'll be on these medications for the rest of your life. Yeah.

[: 1:03:45

Like, this is all we have for you. You have to take this medicine for the rest of your life.

So I think many healthcare providers are learning, there's new evidence and are practicing evidence-based medicine.

And so we're realizing, wait, there are other options.

And so one of the things that I learned from Dr.

Clapper during my time at True North Health with him, and then also at our events, was how to facilitate some of this change safely.

[: 1:04:26

We partner with their healthcare providers. And so we have a form that we send to our participants and we encourage them to go and meet with their healthcare providers before they come.

And it says, here's what I'm about to do. And here are the typical results.

Results are typical. if I notice a decrease in my blood pressure, blood sugar, or cholesterol, what is your recommendation as my primary provider?

Because we believe and we want to respect that relationship that a prescriber might have with their patient.

So all that to say, I think our approach is unique because not only are we supporting the participant throughout the week, but we're also educating providers and supporting their care of their patient and connecting them with the literature.

So all of those logistics aside, do we see people come off of their medication?

[: 1:05:24

And sometimes it's as simple as a decrease in medication. medication.

And when we say this, again, we're talking right now about blood pressure medication or the use of insulin for some individuals who may not need as high of an amount.

So it's really rewarding. And I mean, those are the times when I, sometimes I do get tears in my eyes because you see someone sit up a little bit taller or feel a little bit.

[: 1:05:59

[: 1:06:04

Yeah. At the last immersion that we had in Sedona, I remember seeing you with a woman on a couch.

And I don't believe that this woman was on any kind of medication, so she wasn't coming off it.

But it was just that the food was so powerful that it highlighted, I think, some maybe some swings in our glucose.

You know exactly what I'm talking about, right? That's medical terminology, glucose swings.

[: 1:06:41

[: 1:06:46

Who don't have a diagnosed illness of diabetes or hypertension, and then they're moving their body a little bit more than maybe what they're doing at home.

They're eating exclusively whole food plant-based, no oil.

We're not cooking with sugar or salt.

So we see changes. And I think the biggest challenge is people underestimate how much they need to eat.

And so that's where you'll see me, you know, packing oranges and apples and bananas and dates and feeding people throughout the day because they're working to increase their consumption.

And that's a fun thing. It's so fun.

Exactly. Elizabeth. Yes. Tell me.

So if I'm not mistaken, Aiken, a little birdie told me that you are now a published author.

What can you tell me about that project? I can tell you that I was a tiny part of it, but I am so excited.

[: 1:07:52

So the primary authors are Lorene Downs and Lily Tryon. and this book is for advanced practice providers.

And so it is written based on different disease processes. And I was invited to contribute to the mental health chapter.

So if you are someone who is in healthcare or in school and looking for a textbook on how do you implement lifestyle medicine as an advanced practice provider, this book exists.

[: 1:08:31

[: 1:08:54

So I'm primarily in the School of Nursing here at Jacksonville University.

We had a health science faculty meeting in the fall.

[: 1:09:05

There are five zip codes in the city of Jacksonville. So there's this really cool Blue Zones initiative and it's great.

And Jacksonville University is a sponsor.

[: 1:09:18

And I am getting so excited. I'm thinking, wait, who are you?

And how are you working with her and all the things?

So all of that to say, over the past couple of months, there's been a group of faculty members here at Jacksonville University who are passionate about lifestyle medicine and implementing that in our academic delivery.

And so how that has As played out for me, the American College of Lifestyle Medicine has a partial pathway program.

So I'm a certified diplomat in the American College of Lifestyle Medicine.

And my work has allowed for three of our courses for the students who successfully complete those graduate level courses.

They receive a certificate towards that certification.

Education so it's it's just one step but it does honor the work that they're already doing while they're in school and it eliminates them having to go and do another educational piece to then meet the requirements for that future degree and so there's a few other universities that have that partial pathway and honestly what i learned is when you are brave and curious and have conversations with people, really cool partnerships can form.

[: 1:10:43

I like it. That's really, that's, that's super smart. It's super exciting.

[: 1:10:57

I love it. And to be, and to be you and to be me, to be Elizabeth Winings.

[: 1:11:14

All right. Can you give me a little virtual PLANTSTRONG fist bump on the way out? Got it. Bam.

Thanks, Rep. Thanks, Elizabeth.

[: 1:12:01

And to learn more about Dr. Elizabeth Winings and her practice, visit winingswellness.com.

As we said today, never worry alone, practice gratitude daily, and always, always keep it PLANTSTRONG.

The PLANTSTRONG podcast team includes includes Carrie Barrett, Laurie Kortowich, and Ami Mackey.

If you like what you hear, do us a favor and share the show with your friends and loved ones.

You can always leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

And while you're there, make sure to hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode.

As always, this and every episode is dedicated to my parents, Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr.

And Anne Crile Esselstyn. Thanks so much for listening.

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