EPISODE SUMMARY:

In this episode, I sit down with my practitioner Dr. Elissa to unpack how autoimmune disease impacts fertility, pregnancy outcomes, and implantation. We break down what ANA and ENA testing really means, the role of the gut and vaginal microbiome in immune regulation, and why so many women are told their labs are “normal” when their bodies are clearly struggling. We also explore the deeper patterns behind autoimmunity, drawing on Dr. Gabor Maté’s work - where chronic stress, self-abandonment, and broken boundaries often show up as immune dysfunction. If you’ve felt dismissed or know there’s more to your fertility story, this episode will help you connect the dots.

ABOUT DR. JANE’S PRACTICE:

Dr. Jane is a Naturopathic Doctor and a Natural Fertility Expert. She and her team of expert practitioners help couples navigate infertility for 1+ years, get to the root cause of their struggles, heal, and bring healthy babies home.

After having a family member struggle with infertility and experiencing a miscarriage herself, Dr. Jane realized how little support and education women receive. She is on a mission to change that. Since 2020, she has dedicated her practice to fertility, where she and her practitioners work with couples 1:1, running functional lab work, customizing treatment plans and providing her couples with the support they need to get pregnant, have a stress free pregnancy and a healthy baby.

Learn more about Dr. Jane’s practice: www.drjanelevesque.com/practice

Apply to work with Dr. Jane & her team: www.drjanelevesque.com/application

Join to receive Dr. Jane's weekly Fertility Files: https://link.getcmm.com/widget/form/JStvkHpRAamc7VwPMEQE

CHAPTERS:

00:00 Introduction to Autoimmunity and Fertility

01:50 Understanding the Impact of Autoimmunity on Fertility

06:10 Diagnosing Autoimmune Diseases

09:27 Standard and Functional Testing for Autoimmunity

12:45 The Role of Genetics in Autoimmunity

15:02 The Connection Between Microbiome and Fertility

16:01 Challenging Conventional Beliefs About Autoimmunity

17:36 Genetics vs. Lifestyle in Autoimmune Disease

19:09 The Role of Stress and Inflammation

22:03 Identifying and Treating Autoimmune Triggers

25:52 The Importance of Partner Health in Treatment

27:32 Mental and Emotional Components of Autoimmune Disease

33:01 The Path to Healing: A Holistic Approach

TAKEAWAYS:

Autoimmune disease can be the underlying cause of unexplained infertility.

Lab testing is crucial for understanding fertility issues related to autoimmunity.

The immune system's dysregulation can significantly impact implantation and pregnancy.

Chronic stress and lifestyle factors can trigger autoimmune responses.

Both partners should be involved in fertility treatment to address shared microbiome issues

ABOUT NATURAL FERTILITY:

Pregnancy is a natural process, so if it’s not happening or it’s not sticking, something is missing. Join Dr. Jane, a naturopathic doctor and a natural fertility expert, every Tuesday at 9am for insightful case studies, expert interviews and practical tips on optimizing your fertility naturally.

If you’ve struggling with infertility, pregnancy loss, women’s health issues or just want to be proactive and prepare yourself for the next big chapter in your life… this show is for you.

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Individualized care is essential for effective treatment of chronic fertility issues.

Hi guys, welcome to another episode of Natural Fertility with Dr. Jane. Today I'm joined by one of my practitioners, Dr. Elisa, and we are going to talk about autoimmunity today. Welcome back.

Hi, thanks for having me.

Yeah, we, the last episode we recorded was the number one download podcast for the month. So we have a lot to live up to. Big shit. Yes, but it's good. It's funny. Cause Dr. Nicole talks about that all the time. She's like, I love this little internal competition. And I do too. Cause it's like, if we keep pumping out good content and it's really helpful and you want to listen to it, we are happy. That's what we're trying to.

Big shoes to fill here.

Yeah.

accomplished. So we're going to talk about auto immunity and tell people, you know, why we're talking about it today.

Yeah.

Yeah, trying to hit another hot topic here for sure.

It's very hot.

Yes, yeah, autoimmunity. feels like the last couple weeks of, you know, taking on new clients, it's been presenting itself a lot. So a lot of autoimmunity and ties to the fertility space and, you know.

fertility and miscarriages, loss, all of that stuff and how there's not really as much understanding around kind of the why behind it. So trying to look a little bit deeper into like how that's impacting your fertility and what can we do to address it.

Yeah. I think this, actually got fired up on the live cause someone said the sperm is normal, but he has 1 % morphology. like, so which one is it? Is it the sperm is normal or is it that he has 1 % morphology? And I think this happens with autoimmune disease all the time. It's like, it's unexplained infertility and I have autoimmune disease.

Yeah.

It's like, well, which one is it? Is it unexplained infertility or do you have autoimmune disease? Because if you have autoimmune disease, that is the explanation to your fertility struggles. So we want to break that down, to help you understand. And this is why you were fired up because your patient was coming to you and she was like, I'm having losses or I'm having all of these symptoms and they are just, I mean, you tell your patient's story. can tell the better than I can.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so she unfortunately had a first trimester miscarriage and been trying probably six to eight months I believe since to get pregnant again and hasn't been happening very quickly. Happened very easy for them. They weren't necessarily trying and so they were a little bit...

And how long did it take her to get pregnant the first time? Okay.

you know, taking a back that now that they're trying again, it's not happening for them. And so before I even ever met with them, start looking through the past labs and things that they've had, which they went out and did on their own. They ordered lab testing on their own, are looking into it a little bit deeper because she was told that she was fine and that.

just go and try to get pregnant again, that one miscarriage doesn't necessarily mean anything. And then looking at her labs, like I was getting really fired up because, you know, she's got a positive ANA and she's got some thyroid stuff going on and just a lot of things that points back to that could equal the miscarriages. And it really, it really fires me up.

And the reason that you're struggling now, yeah, the reason that you're struggling now.

Yeah, and why you're struggling the second time around to make that happen. I mean, not to mention the trauma of the miscarriage. That's a whole nother conversation, but yeah, it's frustrating.

I'm really glad that she was proactive and she went and did the lab testing on her own. It's frustrating that she has to do it on her own because, you know, I always say that the labs are only as good as your interpreter. And so if you're the person that's running your labs and you don't have a medical degree or you don't have, you know, you've never looked at these labs before and you're just kind of punching them into Chad GPT, your types of questions that you're going to ask the bot.

will give you the answers. And so I'll use Chad GPT, but the type of questions that I'm gonna ask and how I'm gonna get it to look at certain research and I'm gonna plug in certain papers, I'm gonna get very different answers when you don't know that information. And so then we can go down some really deep rabbit holes or completely avoid, not avoid something, but just have a blind spot that we don't know about. So I'm really glad that she's doing it. And when I had my miscarriage,

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

you know, between my kids, when my doctor was like, yeah, I have three more miscarriages. And I was like, I'm not doing that. You want me to have three more miscarriages if it takes me three, about three months to conceive, which is quote unquote normal. And then you have a miscarriage at let's say eight, nine, 10 weeks. So that's another three months. And then it takes you time to recover and then pregnant. I'm like, that's like two years. You want me to wait for two years to get some kind of lab testing done? That's bananas. Like, no. So that's why we're here.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, or even getting the lab testing done and having somebody interpret it, but not through the fertility lens. So they're looking at it and maybe you're getting good information, but you're not getting the information to lead you down the path, you know, to meet your goal of getting pregnant.

Hahaha

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that happens all the time. I think we see that in the group membership in our Fertility 101. There is so many people taking an insane amount of supplements and even drugs like antibiotics or antiparasitics, antifungals. And I look at some of those protocols and I'm like, I'm not sure what's trying to be accomplished here. Like this is very overwhelming. And...

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

I'm not sure that I would do this. You know, and it's like, I don't want to step on anybody's toes and I respect other people's work, but from the fertility lens, this is a lot and I'm not sure. And there's these pieces that are missing. So I'm glad you pointed that out because that is important.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely.

Let's talk through people like first question. This is kind of how I want to break down Let's talk about how do we actually get a diagnosis of autoimmune disease? Like how do we know if that's something that we have? How is it connected to? Fertility or let's talk about how it impacts the fertility first then we'll talk about the diagnosing and the testing because that's a deeper rabbit hole and you and I like to go into those and then we'll talk about treatment approach How is it connected? Why does autoimmunity impact fertility?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, so a few different ways that it's impacting. So having the elevated cytokinase, the implantation risk of miscarriage increases a lot when you have that. The poor immunological, say that fast through times, tolerance with the embryo, you know, the embryo has to implant, you know, that can impact implantation.

Yeah.

ovarian function, can also impact sperm health, lots of lots of ways that it's impacting fertility.

Yeah, I think what we have to remember is when we have autoimmune disease, we have high levels of inflammation. And if it's the simplicity of what's happening is that the body cannot recognize its own tissue from foreign tissue. And in pregnancy, first of all, the sperm is foreign tissue, like it's foreign DNA. So the egg has to accept the sperm. That's a big component. And so...

Either one, so the male partner or the female partner having autoimmunity, there's microbiome shifts and there is a microbiome that's associated with the white cervical fluid, with the sperm and the ability of those to mesh and then to be able to travel all the way up, that's really important. And then the embryo, what you were saying, and implantation, the embryo is foreign DNA. So when your own immune system is super dysregulated, the...

It's not going to be able to down regulate to accept this foreign DNA. It's actually just going to elicit an immune reaction towards that because it can't tell over it's already confused, if you will, from your own tissue versus foreign. And then those natural, the ability of the system to be really flexible changes because it's just inflamed. It's on high alert all the time.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's prioritizing different pathways.

Yeah, and then like you said with the ovarian function, well, when we have high levels of inflammation, ovaries are super sensitive to oxidative damage and inflammation. That's the first thing that we do is we, the more inflammation we can decrease, the better the ovarian function becomes.

Absolutely.

So it is not unexplained infertility, it is autoimmune disease. If you have autoimmune disease and you've been told it's unexplained infertility, it's like, that's the reason you're not getting pregnant. So, you know, let's talk about the testing and the diagnosing, kind of the standard testing first, and then we'll go into some of the functional lab tests that we could do to give us a deeper understanding.

Yeah, so standard testing wise on a blood panel, you'll have an ANA or the anti-nuclear antibody screen, which is going to show us a titer. And so you have different levels to that. A good reference point is one in 80 and below could be, you know, a low level, a false positive or anything above 80. You would want to search for further testing, look a little bit deeper. If you do get that higher,

higher result, you would want to then go and look at an ENA screening. So that's going to give you a little bit more specific on which autoimmune disease it actually is. But having both gives us the idea, right, that it's happening. And then on our side, we would want to go into further testing to kind of find that root cause or that why.

Hmm.

Yeah, yeah, I the NA and then we do look into like inflammatory markers, although sometimes inflammation shows up very little if especially if you have a really good lifestyle and you are taking care of yourself and you are taking some herbs already to try to manage the immune system. Thyroid antibodies, think that's a yes, I've seen thyroid antibodies be elevated, but the NA is not elevated. So it's not

Bye.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

You know, it's not an 100 % accuracy test if you will. If you have thyroid antibodies, you have autoimmune disease. And sometimes you don't have thyroid antibodies, but you have high ANA and that's where that ANA comes in because then you're like, okay, if it's not in the thyroid, where is it? Is it in the skin versus like the collagen, the eyes, like there's different areas, the muscle tissue, there's different areas.

Mm-hmm.

this is where the genetics come into play, that you likely have a genetic predisposition. And this is why we look at family history really deeply. Like I know my mom has rheumatoid. I know that that's part of my story and I can do things to prevent the development of that or I can do things that will speed that up.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right, right. And I think you talked about this recently to Dr. Jane of like, if you have the gene, that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to, I think it was with endometriosis you were talking about it, but it's like, is it turned on? Like, are you poking the bear? Are you turning the gene on? Are you feeding the problem? Or are you trying to regulate things and look at a deeper level to try to keep that gene turned off?

Because just because you have family history or you have a genetic predisposition to something doesn't mean that that's your fate either.

Yeah, absolutely. But it also doesn't mean you don't have to do anything about it. I think this is where people get really confused. It's like, well, do you cure it? And someone actually, I think that was from the live, someone posted is like, well, doesn't the surgery cure it? And I was like, only until it comes back. Yeah, and then when it grows back, then the surgery is curing it again. Like, it's just a crazy little thought process where like, yeah, but the surgery will just remove it and it's gone.

Right.

Yeah.

until it grows back, yeah.

Like, right.

And so this is, talk about the deeper testing about what are the functional lab tests that we look at to help us understand why is the body doing what it's doing? Why is the body attacking itself?

Yeah, looking deeper, like where is there inflammation? Where there could be infection? So a stool analysis, we wanna see what's going on inside of the gut.

You

A vaginal microbiome is going to be really telling as well to see, you know, infections or like what good versus bad bacteria you're having. You know, looking at levels like, like the things that your immune system, the vitamins and minerals that your immune system uses to regulate. So vitamin D, zinc, selenium, omegas.

B vitamins, all of those things are very important to see those levels too. And then a methylation panel because we want to see the mitochondria level and we, you can't, I tell all of my clients, I'm like, this one's my favorite because it's the least utilized, but it gives us so much good information. Like when I tell you the amount of like mind blown I was when you introduced that to me and showed me how it worked.

You can't do anything without methylation!

Like the methylation panel is huge. Like how is your body detoxing? How is your body creating energy? And I always explain it too. Like, I'm like, okay, I'm back in biochemistry now. And like, I'm looking at all of these pathways. Like you never thought you were gonna use it, but here you are looking at a methylation panel.

Yes.

Yep.

Yeah. And I'm always reminded, like Dr. Leah Hichman says this, like, I don't think we fully understand it yet. Like we have these beautiful pictures that we have been able to create based on the research and what we're seeing in practice, but there's still components. We are like, something is not quite right. I'm, we're still missing this little piece of information. And then there's sure enough, there's another test that comes out and you go, my God, this is it. in the same, even with the stool analysis, like the tests that we're running now versus what I ran 10 years ago, like there's been a lot of evolution.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And it just goes to show that there is so much that we still have to learn and we don't know. But the connection between immune system and microbiome and the gut microbiome.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

dictates I think the rest of the microbiome just because it's so influential. So it dictates the uterine, vaginal, the cervical, the fallopian tube microbiome. And yes, all of those organs have different ones, let alone the skin microbiome, the lungs, the you name it. Like we have certain bugs in certain areas of the body and it's fascinating. So if we can get a good look at the gut and of course the reproductive microbiome, the vaginal microbiome is the easiest one to look at because you know like we're not going to get

Mm-hmm.

you to not everyone's going to get a uterine biopsy like that's not a fun test to do and unless you've been struggling for a long time and what are we looking for we're still looking for infection we're looking for what is causing this infection histamine reaction and then usually there's some kind of hormonal imbalance and whether that's low progesterone high estrogen or all of the above the goal of this testing is to really understand what is body telling us why why is it so confused

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, exactly.

I, this is where the conventional system and you were like, I'm just so fired up, but I'm so mad at them. I'm like, I know, me too, all the time. But from the conventional system, they'll look at you and they'll say, it's just your genes. It's bad luck. And what that tells me is they're telling you like, sorry, your body is stupid and it's just attacking itself.

Mm-hmm.

And if we have this really deep belief, you know, in our company culture that the body is actually really wise and it's smart. So if it's attacking itself, we need to ask, why is it doing that instead of, sorry, you just got a bad one. The, you know, factory setting was off. So

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And it's then that's your belief and then you believe that there's nothing that you can do about it. There's no cure or here's this drug, which is what like a steroid that's just gonna bring down all those cytokines you were talking about. It's like, well, that's not curing anything. That's steroids have a lot of negative side effects, you a lot.

and creating more dysregulation within your body in a different way. To kind of go back on that when you were saying, like, we're just told that, okay, sorry, that's just your fate, or the belief around, like, I was gonna have it anyways because this is my genetics, I think is overused. And it's told to you, not even for things that...

are genetics, like working as a chiropractor, and I was actually adjusting and people would come in and they're like, you I have low back pain because my dad had low back pain. And I'm like, no, you're not predisposed to a herniated disc. You're not predisposed to, you know, degenerative, whatever's happening. Like it's overuse in your body. It's how you've treated your body. And it kind of goes hand in hand there where like,

That's not how it works.

Let's you watch your dad treat his body.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So it's not necessarily gonna be your fate, but it's what you do about it.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think the bottom line with autoimmune disease, when we go and we test, the immune system in the whole body is really overwhelmed. And you get like, I am very in tune of how I feel when I look at someone's tests. And sometimes I'll look and I'm like, I just start feeling so overwhelmed.

And it's like, that's how this person feels. And you could see it because you're like, and this is in the red and this is in the red and count protected levels and this, and my God, there's this infection and this infection and all these nutrients are so low. And you're like, yeah, it starts to make sense why the immune system is not able to recognize what's happening because there's

really high inflammation load and really high pathogenic load essentially or toxic load that's causing the immune system to just go I don't know what's what not to mention the leaky gut and all of that.

Yeah, and then they have a hard time regulating and their nervous system is overwhelmed. And a lot of times it's correlated to stress and poor sleep. when a super stressful situation can trigger an autoimmune response in your body, why wouldn't chronic stress or chronic overstimulation be the same? Where...

you you work a tough job or you know, have whatever type of stress, chronic stress you have could trigger something. So regulating that as well is super, super important.

I'm so glad you said that because I remember I've made a couple of posts on this a while back and it's always like these are the three things that cause autoimmune disease and it's like there is really high pathogenic load which is causing high inflammation and then the trigger is usually there's some kind of trigger so there's the high pathogenic load the high inflammation and dysregulation and then this really big trigger and usually it's chronic.

for a long time but the trigger could be good or bad. I've had people are like but I was getting married and it was you know I was really excited and there was this trip and it's like do you know how stressful getting married is? Depends on what you're doing but it's you're right like if it's a single trigger why can't a slow

Yeah.

Fuck yeah.

chronic stress that just kind of chips away at your resiliency cause autoimmune issues. And it's like, and it does, and it can, and we do see it in practice. And that could be the job, but it could also be you're just eating poorly and then the blood sugar is dysregulated and then you're not sleeping well and then you're sitting more in front of the screen. And then it's like, okay, that's a lot, you know?

Yeah, yeah, and we ask a lot of questions and like sometimes I ask people questions that I'm like, they think that I'm crazy, but it's all related. It all goes back together is like every system is interconnected and every part of your body is intertwined and one can't do something without the other. And so getting to the root and getting to the why and like the background, I keep telling them like it's like the background things that you're not even thinking about do impact that.

for sure.

Like the toxins in your water. Like I know it sounds silly, but it's like if we start to unload some of those things or living in mold, like that's a big deal that can trigger autoimmune disease. And it does, you know? So yeah, let's talk about how we treat it. So, you know, there's a big connection. Like we said, the leaky gut and the microbiome and the vaginal uterine, all of it is connected. How do we actually unpack it? And you know, where do we start? What are some pillars in our

Yeah, huge. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

treatment.

Yeah, so identifying, right? So identifying the burden, if it's some sort of infection, right? Clearing the infection, detoxing the system from it, reducing the strain on the gut lining. So anything that you might have a sensitivity to, even as little as, like you said, the...

what water bottle are you drinking out of? Are you filtering your water? What burden, what impact does the gut have? Opening the detox pathways. So when we take that methylation, we're like seeing how is your body creating energy? How is your body detoxing? Where are there missing pieces? Addressing those and then rebuilding the tolerance. So especially in the gut, like the prebiotics, the probiotics.

fiber in your diet, vegetables, protein, all of those are super important. And then trying to keep inflammatory or inflammation down. So whether that's supporting it through the supplements or the inflammation, like the food, what are you sensitive to?

environmental toxins. So what's causing inflammation around you, alcohol, know, smoking, all of those types of things create inflammation within the body and then nervous system regulation. So regulating the stress. And yes, I could talk all day about, know, the big, yes, go back and listen, go back and listen to the Vegas Nerve Podcast two months in a row.

And it's your favorite, the Vegas nerve. That's, we talked about the Vegas nerve and that's, it comes in again.

Pump those downloads for us.

Yes, so regulating that and unpacking the stress, getting good sleep, processing emotional traumas, whatever physical or emotional that could be for you. A lot of things, there's a lot of things we do to treat it.

Yeah, I think reducing the burden is the biggest, but before we can reduce the burden, we need to understand where the biggest burden is coming from. And that's where the testing comes into play because I mean, I have had patients who've already done all of these things. They've cleaned the water, they've done all these things and they still have autoimmune disease. And so the environmental toxic component is not.

coming from. Yeah.

being more diligent with the environment is not what's going to move the needle for that specific person. But they've never had, you know, a vaginal microbiome done or they've never had methylation done or they had methylation done, but their doctor told them that the functional doctor was like, once we get rid of the infection, then the methylation will improve itself. And it's like, that's not how it works. So sorry to break it to you, but you actually have to fix the methylation so then the body can overcome the pathogen. And then it's never just one pathogen.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

And so if we see a bacterial overgrowth, is there also yeast overgrowth? Do we have symptoms in presence of parasites? And sometimes the parasites are not showing up in the stool, but we're seeing them in the blood work in certain markers that we're looking at or your symptoms that you're expressing. So there's the hierarchy of treatment and then making sure that the body has enough energy to actually overcome it. It is also about treating the partner. It's treat, you share the microbiome and

Yes.

Sometimes the partners are asymptomatic, but they're actually the carriers.

Mm-hmm.

And I see this all the time and the woman has this really sensitive immune system and he doesn't. So he's like, I'm fine. I don't have any symptoms. And then we look at their labs and it's like, well, you have the exact same bugs she does. The bad ones, if you will, the pathogens, but her system is in chaos and you're like, okay, we have to clear those pathogens from his system so he can stop reinfecting her. I've seen that all the time. And that's one of the, why I'm like, nope, I'm only seeing couples.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

you want to have a baby, we want to help you build generational health, which means having a healthy baby, that means having healthy parents. And I don't care if the male says he's nothing is wrong. I will find something. And I always do. And like, I just don't know people who don't have anything wrong. know, like I don't, if you live in 2026 on this planet, there's something that you need to optimize. I can guarantee you that.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Sometimes it just takes a little bit more digging, but you are sharing everything with your partner and just because you don't feel yucky, because it's not impacting your body as much, you know, everybody processes things differently and you know, things lay dormant inside of our bodies and sometimes we don't even know. Like we're all carriers of some sort of virus. We're all carriers of something. It's just a matter of how you express it.

Yes.

And people will find sometimes they start a new relationship and they're like, my God, all of these things. And it's like, okay, well now you're sharing. Now you're figuring out what this person is a carrier of. And so it's really, really important that the couples do this together.

Yeah, absolutely. last thing I want to talk about is the mental and emotional component of it all because this is where, I'll quote Dr. Gabor Matei because he speaks a lot about this. If you have autoimmune disease and you have not heard of him, you should check out his book and the book is called When the Body Says No. And, I think he has another one that's more recent and it's giant.

the myth of normal, I believe. But Dr. Gabor Mate talks a lot about autoimmune disease and this is the quote, the hallmark of autoimmune disease is that the body turns against itself in people who are unable to say no, their bodies end up saying it for them. People who are not able to say no, the bodies end up saying it for them.

So disproportionately, we tend to see autoimmune disease in women. Because we as women tend to take care of everybody else before we take care of ourselves. And that is how our brain is wired in the transition that happens from being a child through puberty, we start to become in tune to other people's needs because it prepares us for motherhood.

The problem is when we tune into other people's needs more than we tune into our own, and we actually are just pouring from an empty bucket. Basically, we're trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel that's really empty.

Yeah, and especially in the fertility or lack thereof process, a lot of times the women take on that as self and that this process is happening because of them. It's very rarely that you meet with a couple and the guy's like, yeah, I'm the problem, you know, whether they're saying it directly or not. And us as women are taking that on. And so...

Yes.

that's the relationship with self and the relationship with your reproductive organs in your body. And we don't realize that that's such a big component of it. But then when you realize that you don't have that relationship with your body, it kind of becomes that aha moment where, okay, yeah, it actually does matter.

Mm-hmm. Well, it's how do you feel around the cycle? It's like, I don't know. You know, I don't notice a difference in how I feel around ovulation versus how I feel around in the second half of the cycle or in the first half of the cycle or yeah, I had a patient where she had painful periods as a teenager and like those is how her periods were and everybody just kind of told her it was normal.

Mm-hmm.

That's what she just gets bad luck. And she kind of started being really mad at her uterus because like, why do I have to struggle with this that nobody else does? And she hated her period and arguably still hated it up until, you know, six months ago when we had the conversation about it. And she actually ended up, of course, getting emotional. But the point was it's like, how can we get you to love and appreciate this?

Mm-hmm.

Sure.

and listen to this as a signal. And I know it's really hard to be like, how can I love and appreciate a painful period? You're not supposed to love and appreciate a painful period, but love and appreciate the fact that your body is telling you that something is out of balance. And then this is where the system is really broken because the system told her at 14 years old, nope, that's normal. That's who you are. Like just go on birth control.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

as opposed to like, nah, that's not normal. You're already carrying some toxic load. There's already hormonal imbalances. There's already high stress in the body and inflammation. And there's so many things like if she did that and addressed it and her mom knew how to address it with her instead of taking to the doctor who then gave them birth control. And it was like, okay, I guess you'll just be on birth control. And it's this perpetual women care like discontinue.

Mm-hmm.

It's like we're not really engaged in our care. You we don't really understand what's going on. We're just kind of told what we need to do and then we believe that and we take that as the gospel truth. And in reality, it's like you're the, all of our patients, I'm like, you know your body better than I do. You will always know that. Your job is to tell me all the things that you're experiencing and I'm gonna help you make.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

the connections and the dots so you can rebuild your relationship with your body and actually learn how to trust it and take care of it instead of this like, somebody else has to tell me what's wrong. You know what's wrong. You might not know how to fix it, but you know something is wrong.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah? Yeah? And that's your body giving you the warning signs. I had a patient tell me the reason why she went on birth control when she was in her teens was because she would get a bladder infection after each one of her periods. And so the doctor's solution was to take away her period rather than teaching her how to, know, be sanitary during her period or, you know, looking a little bit deeper into why she might be carrying a recurrent infection. And then, you know,

my god.

20 years later, she's like, okay, I have chronic candida and I can't get pregnant. Okay, weird. Let's unpack that. So, absolutely.

Weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. think any disease gives us insight into something. And there is a genetic component, absolutely. But usually that genetic component means we've been carrying the genetic burden for a while.

And I think about my genetic line, and I look at my mom's health versus my health, and the things that I've had to learn to do and undo because of...

I can see it, but the burden is heavy, you know, and it's not just doing the supplements and the protocols and the testing. It is the mental and emotional work. know, like Dr. Gabor Mathe says, it's like, if our immune system is this first barrier to pathogens, essentially once we start developing autoimmune diseases, because the boundaries have been broken and whether that's been broken by someone else or ourselves. And usually we learn to break our own boundaries.

Hmm.

because you know if your parents because of like people pleasing or when you were a child it's like if I broke if I stopped listening to myself and I went against my instinct because of survival aka I would receive my parents love and attention and I then could stay then that just becomes the norm.

Mm-hmm.

And I can't tell you how many autoimmune disease patients, and I'm not sure if this is the case for your patient as well, but they're usually the really responsible ones. They're the caretakers and they've stepped into that role a lot younger than they should have. You know, and they're carrying that burden and they're still carrying and there is that then lack of boundaries. And then of course there's things like sexual assault or abuse of any kind really where your own boundary was broken and we haven't quite recovered from that.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Powerful stuff.

Yeah. Yeah.

Anything else? Should we finish on this note or is there anything else?

No, I think that that's good. That quote, that's a powerful, powerful quote. like that. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Something to think about. Something to think about. So it is absolutely possible to treat it. I retest my autoimmune.

patients often because that tells me when we are ready to start trying and I want the antibodies non-existent because then I know the immune system is not dysregulated, the inflammation is down and the truth is the infection load is down. The truth is the patients feel so much better and they feel different and then I'm always like and this is what it feels like not to have antibodies. So when that antibody load starts to creep up you'll be able to catch it so much earlier and usually disconnected to that infection coming back and then you potentially

Yeah.

you traveled and you caught something. just spoke to my friend, she went to Peru and she's like, yeah, I got a parasite. She's like, and I thought it was after this, but then, and I'm like, yep, it, happens all the time. You travel, you even like just eat or drink something or whatever. it's boom, it's in your system. So,

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

It is absolutely possible to treat it. You need to understand what to do. It absolutely impacts fertility and we need to look at the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual component when we're talking about this. That's how we really heal it. Cure it. Control it. Whatever you manage it, whatever you want to, whatever word you name it. So, well, thank you, Lisa, for being here.

Mm-hmm.

Manage, regulate, yeah. Throw it in.

And for another wonderful topic, hope you guys enjoyed it and share it, download it. We're in a competition over here.

I guess, I guess.

Alright, thanks so much you guys for listening and tuning in and we'll see you next week.

Thank you.