Why can someone appear to be doing fine, stay busy and remain constantly connected—yet still feel that they belong nowhere?

Christian d’Ippolito is the founder of The Spartan Project and former leader of Steel Warriors, an anti-knife-crime charity that transforms confiscated knives into outdoor community gyms. After almost two decades in media and marketing, Christian began applying what he knew about storytelling and influence to community building, youth empowerment and social impact.

Christian and Sam discuss why everyone needs somewhere to belong, what can draw young people towards destructive communities, and why removing bad choices means little if society fails to offer credible alternatives.

They also explore the limitations of individualised self-improvement, the loss of trusted role models, material pressure, AI’s growing influence, calisthenics as a tool for measurable progress, and the small actions that can move someone from isolation towards community.

The conversation ultimately returns to one question: what is your definition of success, and how much of that definition is genuinely yours?

Find Christian at https://www.instagram.com/dippo/

Discover The Spartan Project at https://www.thespartanproject.world/

You've spent 20 years working across media and storytelling.

What has that taught you about moving people from just attention into action?

I guess that's the ultimate objective, really, isn't it?

Because you can be a spectator for as long as you want to be, but in order to actually get anything done, particularly when it comes to an idea or the idea of self development in any and every way, then the objective has to be, you know, achieving something.

Even though you know that goal might be a small one, you have to take necessary steps to begin a journey of results.

Okay, so how you do that is very subjective.

You know, my background in media marketing and in amateur filmmaking, because that's really what it's been.

That's how it started, actually.

Documentary, still love documentary, really taught me the importance of kind of using those mediums to really help achieve specific goals.

Those might be motivational.

They might be, I suppose, all to do with the fitness, which is something that I've now been trying to use as a tool to inspire others, particularly given my age.

It kind of depends.

But ultimately, you know, this is about actually achieving something.

And you can't do that so long as you just remain seated and be a spectator.

Attention's cool, but action will actually get you somewhere.

Yeah, I suppose over those years that you've been doing it, one of the biggest changes to your area of work would be social media.

It's completely changed how we tell stories and how we share information.

How has that shaped your own journey?

So I'm old enough to remember when Twitter first came out.

I was early to sign up, and at the time I was working for an international newspaper.

And the contrast is quite clear.

To even imagine the Financial Times as my first proper job, that's a separate story.

But I remember with the advent of and the dawn of Twitter really being released as a platform, everybody suddenly became a journalist, everybody became a reporter.

And stories started to break first on Twitter and subsequently ripple through what we now know, what we've always known to be mainstream media.

Newspapers ultimately became the last really to publish the story.

So it was back then, very early on, actually the advent of a lot of social media, that I noticed this real key, pivotal, changing point, really.

And that's where my fascination with it really began.

Firstly, as a user, not necessarily a creator or storyteller.

It's a great source of news and information.

Real time RSS feeds, if anyone remembers those, predated a lot of this too.

But yeah, I remember it really being one of those moments when you think, okay, this is going to Change everything.

Yeah, I think we're going through something similar right now.

Yeah.

With.

With AI?

Yeah, absolutely.

Do you think it's a positive thing in.

In the work that you do?

The areas that you work in, obviously they're quite sensitive to subject sometimes.

And I suppose quick breaking stories and everyone having a voice can sometimes sort of muddy the waters of what's actually true and what's not.

How do you view it personally?

I mean, I was going to say it depends who you ask.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's the democratization of.

Of reporting, of storytelling.

Yeah.

You're seeing it now across most other sectors, too.

So, you know, think of what it now, what it used to take to be a food critic.

Everyone, I'm a food critic.

Yeah, you probably are, too.

Yeah.

These platforms have ultimately democratized the process.

Is that a good thing?

Yeah, I'd say it probably is.

You know, does it come with certain consequences?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

But fundamentally, I feel a platform for all is probably the fairest way of actually going about anything, really.

I think when it isn't that way, we're the first to sort of moan and kick off and talk about.

Well, I certainly am anyway, so.

No, I do think it is a good thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I suppose it stops certain things being sort of gate kept and kept away from certain people who maybe wouldn't have the opportunities to get to that position where they can be a critic or comment on these things.

Yeah.

And then, you know, let's also just take a moment to remind ourselves that that certification tick used to be used a bit more responsibly.

And I feel like, you know, right now, in the same way that you might not necessarily give a driving license to absolutely everybody, should you, you know, be conscious of who's able to sort of make certain claims and who's fact checking and.

Yeah, that's what I mean when I say it comes with consequences.

But fundamentally, the ability to voice an opinion, I feel, is a democratic Right.

And long may that be the case.

Really?

Yeah.

I just want to jump back towards that first question and that.

That difference of the things you learned and how you begin to get into action.

What's the difference in your opinion between just getting someone to care about something and getting someone to go away and actually act on that thing?

Well, okay.

Okay, so, great question.

I crudely refer to this as the giver shitometer.

Right.

You have to give somebody a reason to care.

Doesn't matter what you're doing.

What I spend a lot of my time thinking about is not so much the type of response or the type of person I often sort of trouble myself with just how to achieve that.

How do you stand out in a very noisy market?

How do you actually cut through the noise in this crowded marketplace, in this attention economy where everybody has a voice, where everybody has like a town hall?

How'd you cut through?

Well, you know, I've decided to do that, you know, in my way, particularly through a lot of the, the, the social impact work that I devote my time to.

I've decided to do it in the most simplistic way possible, which is really proving a point, a very simple point, that alone we can do so little together we can achieve so much.

And I might be jumping the gun a bit, but that's how organizing these public events actually has come to be.

Doing 100,000 push ups is not something that somebody can do alone.

I mean, they probably could, but it will take them a very long time.

Right.

So proving that idea and getting that model across in an engaging way, in an engage, through an engagement based model is what I spend my time sort of really trying to solve.

These are, these are the how I suppose I deploy a lot of my energy.

The storytelling piece then kind of just rolls off of that.

Yeah.

And I realized that again, in this attention economy, we don't really have time and I feel like it's almost like a bit arrogant to expect somebody to just give a chunk of their time to hear what you have to say.

So I'm basically alluding to the fact that short form, content, bite size, bits of narrative, I suppose told consistently is arguably a reasonable way to go about doing things today.

Tell me a bit more about the social impact work that you do then.

You mentioned it there and you mentioned that it is bringing people together.

What is it that you're doing?

So my venture into the public sector began around Covid time.

It was a big, again, a pivotal, a changing point, I suppose for me in my life.

I'd spent years working in the private sector, about 18 years working in marketing and media.

And my venture into the public sector came with me being armed with all of that experience.

Right.

So I.

And it's a separate story, I suppose, but I ran the Steel warriors anti knife crime charity for about five years.

Yeah.

Led it in, you know, a range of different ways through loads of different initiatives and partnerships and collaborations.

Just explain what that charity did as well.

Just for anyone.

Steel warriors is an anti knife crime charity that melts confiscated knives and turns them into outdoor gyms.

It's a powerful metaphor.

Yeah.

It's amazing and it's one that resonated with me because not only was I doing calisthenics, but I too had been through a pretty powerful personal transformation and I was using calisthenics as a coping mechanism for trauma.

Again, that's another story for another time.

But my, my.

Suppose, I suppose my devotion to the public sector began around that period.

And I now run my own not for profit organization called the Spartan Project.

And the idea is really to use my experience and the confluence of my experiences as a force for good.

And so I do that through organizing like collaborative workshops and these public events which involve fitness.

Accessible fitness, inclusive fitness.

And that's why doing 100,000 push ups, whether you could contribute one or like some of the Cali athletes that, you know, I'm friends with, thousands of push ups, it didn't really matter.

You're all in the pursuit of a common goal.

And when you are in the pursuit of a common goal, it doesn't really matter where you come from, what you look like, how you got here, whether or not you can speak English, how old you are, all of that, it just becomes, I mean, just secondary.

In fact, it's not relevant at all.

It's not even secondary.

Is irrelevant.

Yeah.

So this idea that it's through the pursuit of a common goal that, you know, we can obviously, you know, achieve unity and achieve things like compassion and empathy and these are the building blocks of community.

Well then now you understand like what I, what I basically do.

And this is what I spend my, my time imagining what the next event or what the next, you know, get together might look like.

And this is off the back of, you know, efforts that have even, you know, resulted in the Fish organis world records.

So I try and really just use my frustration, combined with my creativity.

Yeah.

Sprinkled with my boredom, to really do things that are just, you know, just a bit different, but ultimately for the benefit of all.

That's really what the Spartan Project is about.

Yeah.

What's the importance of that community?

What does that give people like that coming together and doing the same thing?

The common goal as you said.

Yeah.

It feels like a lot of people in this world are short of purpose.

Yeah.

We're unsure, we become more isolated with what we were talking about before.

Some of the social media downsides would be that people don't go out and see their friends in person.

It's more online and stuff like that.

Exactly.

So what is the importance of that community to you?

I think it's everything I've said it before, I'll say it again.

I think community is absolutely everything because unfortunately we've got to a point where for many people, especially young people, the very idea of community has been whittled down to an online experience.

So I, when I was growing up, I don't remember social anxiety being a thing.

I mean, it's no wonder now if you spend all your time communicating through a device.

Yeah.

Or, or being online, you know, with a, with a, with a headset and a microphone, you know, having a virtual experience and having one that dominates, you know, your waking hours, when it's no surprising, is it, that you're a bit like out of tune when it comes to interacting with people in the real world.

So creating spaces, moments and opportunities that allow for the coming together of people in an uncomplicated, inexpensive way is absolutely critical because as I said before, that's how we build community.

And being able to interact with someone who's different from you, different to you, from a different walk of life, is essential to help you develop empathy and compassion.

Without that, then how can we possibly hope to have a cohesive, integrated society?

So I, I, for, for me, it's absolutely everything.

Community is, is the number one goal.

What does one of your events look like?

So if you were chaos,.

If you were to explain it to someone listening, who thinks, Joe, I might go down to one of these.

I fancy a bit of chaos in my life.

Yeah, yeah.

Organized, beautiful chaos.

Yeah, beautiful chaos.

No, I think, listen, it's, it's intentionally stripped back.

So.

In the past we've done collaborative events with Brixton Street Gym, with the London Fire Brigade, with advertising agencies.

These have been more, you know, with the ambition and with the aim of having somebody, a young person learn something.

We've done events at the Samsung flagship store in King's Cross.

We've done an event, a collaborative event with Westminster Magistrates Court, actually got that coming up again this October.

That's a really interesting event because we have two groups of two schools, about 30, 15 year olds, that get to sit through a mock trial in an attempt to really convey the risks and the consequences of being caught carrying a knife.

So different type of event.

Bike Storms is an event that's coming up next week.

I help out on that.

That's an annual ride out on bikes.

It takes place every year.

This will be the 11th one.

I mean, that's a sight to behold.

Bike Storms is a movement, really.

And their strap line is bikes up, knives down.

Yeah.

So I've been working closely with Jake.

For a number of years now.

Jake 100.

That's an event I'm affiliated with.

And then more recently, the.

The public events in Windrush Square in Brixton.

No barrier to entry, no registration, no sign up, no fees.

They're always free, the events, and they kind of need to be that way because, you know, when you think about it, the only two places where people, young people, are not expected to spend money anymore, parks and libraries.

Everything feels really, you know, exclusive.

Right.

And that's why you got a load of kids hanging out Westfield on the stairs.

Right.

Right.

Sitting in this oppressively heavy consumerist environment without the means to really partake.

So what are we doing?

You know, so I try and make these as accessible as possible.

You know, all you got to do is turn up.

And the public space event is an interesting one because it catches a lot of passers by.

Yeah.

But who really were not intending on doing a push up that day, you know, and so as a result, we've had stage four cancer patients, the Metropolitan Police, the London Fire Brigade, we've had nurses, someone from Royal Mail, we've had literally every single type of person get involved.

A celebration, a true celebration of community right there.

What is it about calisthenics for you?

Like you said that you used it as a coping mechanism previously.

Yeah.

What is it that calisthenics gives you that maybe other sports don't?

I think that it's.

This is, I suppose, applicable to all sports, but it feels aggressively obvious with calisthenics, is that you need a goal.

Whether that's a handstand, a muscle up a front lever, a specific skill, you need a goal and you can't score without one.

Obviously sounds obvious, but now that you have a goal, right, and you've got something to aim for, your training suddenly takes on a whole new meaning.

So you can go to the gym and do a whole lot of nothing.

Yeah.

And feels good and sore, but without really knowing what you've actually achieved, other than maybe a dopamine hit.

And I feel better now.

Great.

Calisthenics is attractive because you, you, you set yourself a goal, a target, and now all of a sudden, for the first time, perhaps your training Trudy has meaning.

Yeah.

So now I'm going to dissect, like, the path to achieve that goal.

So now success and progress becomes measurable for the first time.

Oh, look, I could do that.

I can do that now.

And I couldn't do that last week.

Yeah.

I feel slightly stronger in this position.

I can do more Reps.

I can do one more pull up.

Yeah, sure.

The same philosophy carries over to gym, too, but calisthenics is a complete form of training.

Some would argue it's a training methodology, and some will say no, actually, it's a sport now, and that's a whole different debate.

But fundamentally, being in tune with your body and learning how to manage and if not master your own body weight.

Yeah.

I feel is a precursor to really any sporting endeavor.

Yeah.

So that's why I. Yeah.

And I mean, I'm a late starter.

Yeah.

I started in my mid-30s, but, yeah, it's just something that.

I mean, I've got.

I've got a tattoo on my leg now.

Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah.

Cali till I die.

How bad is that?

Cheesy, isn't it?

But.

No, but the reason I bring that up.

Yeah.

Is because I'm completely converted.

Yeah.

You know, in this, I now see how I will achieve longevity.

It's not going to be by, you know, bench pressing.

I can.

I can bench over 100kg.

You haven't done it for a while.

120, I think, is the most I've done.

Not that that's relevant, because I don't concern myself with that now.

That's not.

Actually.

Doesn't translate into functional shrimp for me.

Absolutely.

I would much rather have explosive strength with just my own body weight.

Yeah.

And I'd rather have agility and preserve as much of that agility and mobility as possible as I get older.

So that's why.

Yeah.

It's Cali for life now.

And Cali till I die.

Nice.

Yeah.

You see, you see it a lot like, as.

As younger guys.

Like, I know I was, when I was like, 17, you get pulled into that gym environment and it's all about bodybuilding and getting as big as you can.

And you've got the bodybuilders, you've got Arnold videos and all this stuff, but you look at some of them now who've come off the back of it.

Ronnie Coleman, like.

Yeah.

Just can't move.

And it's like being that big.

And obviously that's the extremes, but just building muscle for muscle's sake.

Unless you're actually going to compete.

It's a pretty strange way of looking at training and something like calisthenics, where it's about moving your body through space and you can actually relate that into stuff.

If you needed to pull yourself up or move yourself through a space or whatever.

Like, you've got that flexibility, the agility and the strength to do That I totally agree.

Yeah, I went through a phase of doing more calisthenics and I'm trying to bring a bit more of it back in.

So who am I to say, you know, who should do what type of training or whatever.

But I just think that, you know, particularly for someone my age, you know, in their early 40s, if not older, if you're going to do anything, I mean, now is the time to really try and like preserve as much of your overall mobility, flexibility, agility and body weight strength as you possibly can.

So learning, it's never too late.

But learning how to do a pull up a dip, you know, remastering or reconquering your push ups, which you might have done for a while, you know, I feel it's, this is essential, you know.

And let's be honest, the world we live in today mostly encourages a sedentary lifestyle.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, you know, what's it going to be?

You know, I don't want to be that guy that, you know, struggles to pick something off the kitchen floor, you know, when trying to think what a baby bell.

There you go.

That's, that's, that's a good, good example that you can picture struggling to pick a baby bell off the floor, kitchen floor.

Because my.

No, no, no, that could never be me.

Yeah.

I'm now really into the idea of just longevity.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean it's a good goal for everyone to be fair that.

Pick that baby bill off the floor.

Yeah, that's.

That, that is the test, that's how you test here.

If you're good to go.

I just want to look at the, obviously around the work you do, some of the people that you, you must have communicated with so many people from so many backgrounds and so many experiences of life and specifically looking into more of the maybe the knife crime stuff, people that fall into that lifestyle.

What is it that's appealing to those people about getting involved in some of those, those crimes?

I suppose they don't necessarily always plan to, but how do people fall into that and what we missing as a society that lets them fall into that?

I think it's just fair to say that everybody is looking for a sense of belonging.

Yeah.

You know, and the availability bias is real.

You, you create your reality based on what you know.

So if you don't have very much to begin with, your reality and how you ultimately sort of see the world is going to be a certain way and what are the options for those that perhaps feel abandoned by society?

What are the options for Those that perhaps can't afford, you know, a certain level of education.

What do you say to the person working, you know, in retail who knows that actually they aspire for more, they want more, but don't really have a means to get there, you know.

You know, they don't really see a pragmatic, a logical way to achieve, you know, what they really want, which tends to involve, yeah, like material possession.

All right.

That's the world we live in.

Okay.

Whether that's right or wrong, that's another discussion.

But that's the pressure that we're putting on these young people.

You need the Rolex, you know, you need the car, you need the whip, you need this, you need that, you need the other.

Right.

You need the exclusive trainers, you need everything.

Yeah.

So what you expect when you create a pressure cooker like that where, you know, all of these things feel so materially out of reach for the majority?

Well, you gonna be consequences.

There's gonna be, you know, the development of, you know, clusters that will go about getting these things in.

In other ways.

Right.

Because that's how we now define success, apparently, by what you have, not who you are.

Yeah.

So I think that trying to replicate or provide an alternative way of achieving a self of belonging is what we really need to be thinking about doing.

Yeah.

You know, again, it's very easy.

Again, we live in this world.

I'm sick of it myself, to be honest with you.

We're constantly told what we can't do.

You can't do this, you can't do that, you can't park here, you can't turn right, you can't eat this now.

Oh, my God.

It's just too much.

Right.

And that's me saying it.

So, you know, where's the presentation of the alternatives?

If I can't do this, that and the other, what can I do?

Yeah.

And that's the sort of experience and it's.

It's suppose the story that I hear.

So it goes back again to what we were saying before about, you know, why do I do the things that I do.

I. I create these moments, spaces and opportunities precisely to give people something to do, including myself.

Yeah.

I am part of this group that feels somewhat disillusioned with what's being presented as, you know, this is what's on offer.

Yeah.

It doesn't really feel like enough.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

I resonate with that in terms of, like, from my own personal experience would be, I would think of like school and the way that you're sort of Funneled towards university because it's what's best for the school.

It looks best on their numbers if they can say a certain percentage of.

But how many people.

You speak to adults now who have.

Who struggled at school, didn't go to university and like did this amazing thing.

They created something.

Apprenticeships, they learned whilst they were earning and they started to meet people through that and develop themselves that way.

And I think, I think back to.

I never went to uni in the end because they didn't get the grades.

And it's probably one of the best things that happened to me.

Like, it let me then decide what do I actually want to do, because I was just going for the lifestyle, which is a shocking way to spend that amount of money.

So I'm so.

I'm so grateful when I look back on it.

But it is what you're sort of pressed to do in that time.

And I think the beautiful thing about being human is how unique we all are and how certain people are good at some things and not so good at other things and you can come together and fill those gaps for each other almost.

And yeah, that, that, that's just my one experience.

But obviously what you're explaining is like there's, There's a ton of experiences like that that sort of copy that.

That way that we're all sort of funneled into turn right when we don't want to turn right.

Yeah, but I just again, like, it's.

I suppose in many ways with the benefit of hindsight too.

You know, I. I sort of realized that actually there isn't an awful lot to do here.

It sounds like quite a sweeping statement, but you need to think about the micro detail here.

And maybe it's not even so micro after all.

You know, it's well documented, the closure of youth centers.

Yeah.

I think it's pretty clear and I think most people would agree that London is prohibitively expensive.

Yeah.

In many ways.

Especially for those who don't have very much, you know, infrastructure and public transport in particular.

I mean, you know, let's remind ourselves that it can cost close to £400amonth, you know, to just get around using a combination of bus and tube, not even mentioning trains.

So single mother of two, you know, that is difficult.

Right.

So, you know, what are we doing about this?

What do we.

It's not even so much anymore about education.

It's about prospects and actually it's about hope.

Yeah.

Everybody needs hope.

Right.

This place feels.

This big city of ours feels very small.

If you don't really feel that you have much hope.

And this is something I feel that is particularly the case with, you know, the youth, our youth.

You know, these are stories that I often hear, you know, and perhaps because I'm older, you know, I take a lot for granted.

I forget how old I am, if I'm honest with you.

I am just a big kid.

We all are.

We all are.

But truthfully, you know, these are some of the, I suppose, the objective realities that I certainly see and deal with on a daily basis.

How do we build that hope for, I suppose, for younger people, for the future?

Like.

Because like you say, there are not only the young people, but loads of people feel so disillusioned with certain things.

And it seems to just be more and more divided in terms of.

When we have discussions about one thing, it's taking away from the other side of the argument.

It's never a.

Like a coming together and like, how can we work together.

I've talked about this often.

It's about ultimately, it's about empowerment.

You can dissect that in a million ways and you can interpret that, you know, however you want, but it needs to be about empowerment.

Whether that's, you know, in government, in local authority, in business, in, you know, in anything, to be honest with you.

Obviously people are reluctant because it involves a transfer of power, but let's not get into that.

Ultimately, young people want to be authors of their own culture.

Yeah.

And not so much spectators.

Is that happening?

To some extent, Maybe again, democratization of, I suppose, video content creation journalism, you know, but still in the real world, the tangible world, it doesn't really feel like, you know, there is an awful lot of opportunity.

Talent is everywhere.

Opportunity is not.

Yeah.

So is it about.

Rather than telling young people what we think they should do, it's actually speaking to them, finding out what.

What is it that excites you?

What do you want to do?

What?

Listen, do you want me to be cynical?

It doesn't matter what we think.

Yeah.

I think our days are done, Sam.

You know, we're at the picture now for the first time in.

In human history, in recorded history.

Right.

This transfer of knowledge from an old person or a wiser, older, wiser person to a young person is becoming almost secondary, if not, you know, out of touch and out of fashion.

Why?

Because you'll just consult your AI, your chat GPT for a second opinion and for what something is and whatnot.

We are living in very, very, you know, strange times.

So.

So I don't know.

Truthfully, I Don't.

I don't know what role we play.

I don't really know where, where this actually goes, but one way or another, you know, it's always going to come down to culture and a sense of belonging.

Yeah.

You see, without that, you, you're going to have a very fragmented, very disenfranchised and disengaged communities.

Yeah, yeah.

I've never really thought about it that way.

Especially they are, like, when someone had a problem or a question, they would usually go to maybe a parent or a friend or whoever and ask, what would you do?

Or like, just for some advice.

And now it's stark.

Hello, phone.

Type it in.

It gives you some advice.

Yeah, generic advice.

Right.

I think we're not, we're not quite there yet.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, do you think.

There's a way to stop that?

I don't know.

It's about trust, isn't it?

If you don't have trust in, in, in, in.

In people who hold positions of authority, why would it matter what they think about, you know, you.

That's what I mean when I say there aren't really that many role models anymore.

And that is a genuine problem.

You know, who do we look up to anymore, really?

Particularly if you're a young person.

You see, it's become very tribal in a way.

So, I don't know, it's an interesting moment.

I think we're at this inflection point really right now, and things seem to be moving quite, quite, quite quickly.

But again, I'll say it again and I'll say it over and over again, you know, the pursuit of something, the pursuit of a goal, a common goal really is what brings people together.

Yeah.

How we do that, you know, what language we do it in, is immaterial.

And I used to spend a lot of time thinking just about youth and, you know, solutions for our youth.

But in so doing, I realized that actually, you know, everybody is looking for a sense of belonging.

Everybody needs hope.

And so, again, I think if we're really going to have a serious conversation about this, particularly given that last point about the transfer of knowledge and how it's happening, then we need to look at solutions that are arguably intergenerational.

You know, for the first time, maybe that, that should maybe, you know, be presented with the severity and the seriousness that it merits.

What would an intergenerational coming together like that look like, in your opinion?

What would work?

Well, I've seen again, like, you know, so things that.

Things that trouble me.

Okay, so we all Live in silos.

I grew up in a different country altogether.

You know, I grew up in South Italy, right.

Until I was.

I left when I was 11, 12.

Mum's English.

I've always spoken English, so you'd never know, Right?

Yeah, absolutely.

But growing up in South Italy, you know, you.

Well, life is different.

It's inconceivable to walk past someone in the evening and not say good evening to them.

It's inconceivable to not know your neighbors.

Yeah, right.

It's just not.

It's just inconceivable.

Yeah.

So over here it's quite rare, especially London.

You go, you go outside of London and everyone says hello and you're like.

Yeah.

And I think if anything, you know, things are deemed to be like the idea of doing, you know, something as a family.

And I should be careful what I say here because I can't speak from experience.

I don't have kids, I don't have a family.

So, you know, it's not really fair for me to say.

But I can speak from experience and I can speak of what I've seen.

And you know, in a lot of these, let's suppose progressive solutions, also those that get discussed in a town hall capacity, for example, or in the communities against Violence, you know, committees that exist in a borough to borough, intergenerational solutions.

And something that brings, you know, a parent, parents, you know, kids and starts to really develop this idea of community integration.

It's actually really important because so long as we treat everything in isolation, it kind of remains that way, particularly with services.

And, you know, you can make the argument too that by bringing things together and trying to create intergenerational solutions, there are some efficiency efficiencies, if not economies of scale to exploit.

But in any event.

Right.

It's just difficult right now because everything does feel so separated.

You've got single parent homes, in some cases, extreme cases, you've got kids that really feel as though they're prisoners of their own estate.

Yeah.

You know, don't even know what alternatives they are.

I wouldn't even dream of going to some sort of like event in a park.

You know, postcode wars are real.

Yeah.

You know, I feel like a lot of people don't understand what this actually means in practice.

Yeah.

So, you know, I think it's important to just, just develop stronger communities.

Yeah.

And again, how you go about doing that is very subjective, but I feel like that should be one of the.

Goals, stuff like that, where you say, obviously these, some of these people as an example, like the postcode wars, that, that sort of stuff, most people won't understand that because they, they haven't and can't experience it in their own experience.

Like myself, I've never been in that position to fully understand that level.

And a lot of the people who are on our TVs and on the news and the radio talking about some of these things have never experienced those things they're actually talking about.

Most policymakers haven't.

Yeah.

So how do we, how does someone, in fact, can someone ever truly understand that without having gone through it, do you think?

Unlikely.

And that's why I think it's important.

Isn't there plenty of cics of grassroots organizations doing literally God's work, doing phenomenal things for their local communities?

It's across London, across, across the country.

Yeah.

You know, and I feel like they're the people that should be given more support, that should be ultimately given, you know, more of a platform to really, I suppose have a better say, an improved say in how things ought to be done and what's important in what's required and what's necessary.

You see, there's a lot of fragmentation and there's lots of people with good intentions, but unfortunately they either don't have the knowledge, the skills or the opportunities to really communicate the value of what they do.

In terms of the work you've done and the projects you've run and the events that you've put on and collaborated on, are there any stories of individuals that stand out to you as an example of how this can work for someone?

Oh God.

I mean there's loads, loads of examples and it's hard to really even, you know, isolate a, a particular, like individual or a particular moment because it's, I think like it transcends me.

I think that what, what, what happened really and what's been going on for some time now is a successful development of a very, a thoughtful, inclusive community.

And I'm referring specifically to the calisthenics community.

Okay.

Given that the barriers to entry are so low, you don't need any equipment, you've got to turn up and you've got to use a pull up bar.

Right.

Given that the barriers to entry are so low, the responsibility of motivating, of inspiring, of galvanizing, of converting interest, somebody's interests, maybe someone's insecurity, someone's trepidation into something way more powerful and positive, that is a shared responsibility at the end of the day.

Because whilst I'm at the bars, you know, most Days.

I'm not there all day.

Yeah.

So the successful development of a community over the last five to six years, of which I am a part of, I'm a contributor to that.

Right.

It's not just me.

Well, I. I would say that the work that I've put in, the import there, which is quite significant, is such that, you know, the ripple effect it's had, not limited to my involvement, is one that has created this wonderful environment whereby, you know, it's not necessarily just one person's responsibility.

Now you've created something way, way, way bigger.

Yeah.

And I feel like it's so beautiful and so special because that is the ingredient, the main ingredient of.

Of the very process of embarking on the calisthenics journey in the first place.

Yeah.

It's a lifestyle choice.

And you see, that is something that I've learned.

And I feel like it's probably the reason why I've never even really thought about, you know, coaching specifically or, you know, charging for, like, my time or my hours in a coaching capacity, because it just feels so organic, you know.

So within that process, there's been countless individuals and I'd.

If I'm being honest with you, Sam, I've received a lot of messages of support over the years from people that said, no, thank you, and inspiration.

But, like, let's not even get into that, because not only does that.

That.

I suppose that that effort come naturally because I'm at a point in my life where perhaps there's even an element of a paternal instinct that's kicking in.

I don't have kids.

Right.

Maybe that has a role to play, but it feels natural to me.

And in that process, there have been many, many, I think, people that have.

Mostly young men, mostly, that I now classify as friends.

Yeah.

You know, and their journey that I've played a role, a small role in assisting is.

Is now something that I purely view as like a friendship journey.

It's actually difficult for me to.

To think of how my involvement, you know, and what part of that involvement might have helped, you know, fine tune or, you know, contribute to the fine tuning of.

Of somebody's engine.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Yeah.

The words that you used in there, one of the words is responsibility.

So collective responsibility.

So you see it as your responsibility and everyone else's as well.

Yeah.

Was there a.

Was there a turning point where it became something that was just maybe an interest to you or something that you saw?

Something where you felt, this is actually my responsibility now?

No, I think it just.

It just Happened.

I mean, again, if I found myself in an environment.

This is going back to lockdown, by the way.

Yep.

When all the gyms were closed, there was really nothing else going on.

And there was an outdoor gym in Ruskin park which became, you know, the, I suppose, the main rendezvous point for so many different people.

And what initially started off as just really feeling as though I was in a, in a, in a playground, an adult playground, and was a lot of fun.

You know, I quickly realized that a lot of my interactions were ones that I would be able to positively influence.

Yeah.

Because of the confluence of my experiences.

And, you know, that doesn't just mean my professional career.

It means also the things that I've been through just, you know, as a person.

A lot of emotional trial and tribulations and so on.

Yeah.

So that process of really just providing and assisting, you know, and trying to give a leg up and, you know, trying to help, help someone in, in a way or another by virtue of an introduction or a sort of a knowledge gem that I may have picked up on my own journey that just, you know, came.

It was obvious to me.

Yeah.

And so that that process hasn't really ended.

Yeah.

If anything is intensified.

Amazing.

You obviously help these people and like you said, they're like maybe little bits of things you've learned.

You can pass anyone.

So this is, I think this is it.

The sort of person I am.

Everything interests me.

Yeah.

And nothing really, really holds me, which means I just move right with, with, with, with, with, I suppose, a determination and a defiance.

And, you know, I, I'm really only interested in becoming a better person.

And you know, one real clear and maybe obvious way to achieve that, to me at least anyway, is through helping others.

You know, that's really that simple.

So, you know, I'll, I'll, you know, I'm not perfect, but I certainly try and, you know, within reason, just be as, as reasonable as I can be, you know, often at my own expense.

Because, you know, it's not like this generates a return for me and maybe nor should it and do this for money.

Yeah.

I do it because it makes sense to me.

Yeah.

And I do other things to support my journey which sit outside of public sector marketing consultancy.

But anyway, that's, that's another.

That's not really the point here.

The point here is that, you know, I'm, I'm.

I'm now at a place in my life where to not give back.

It just doesn't make sense.

I'm not a kid anymore.

I'm not here for the take, you know, how do the people that you're.

Helping help you, whether they know it or not?

I mean, I smile most days, really, when I'm.

When I'm in my environment.

But I guess, like I said, shoot, this all transcends me.

We all maybe inadvertently help each other.

You see, when we come to, you know, doing a sport, playing a game, practicing calisthenics, we're all doing it because we want to, you know, make progress.

And so, you know, we kind of support each other in that.

In that process.

For me, you know, having had a bit more life experience, you know, my.

My work now often is really just, I suppose, a process of just having a chat.

You know, I'm quite easy to get hold of as well.

And some of this is unconventional because, to be honest with you, the traditional means of doing this type of work comes with a lot of safeguarding, like protocols, you see, I'm very conscious of that.

But when you're.

When you're practicing sport, when you're, you know, in the field together, you see, it's quite easy to understand how time spent together, you know, ultimately develops nothing short of friendship.

Do you see what I mean?

And so when you have shared interests that actually cross borders.

We've done events, this is years ago now, done events with a whole street, a street gym in Mumbai, you know, and then they came to London and, you know, we had athletes and young people from 15 different countries turn up.

Amazing.

Do you know what I mean?

So the point is, though, that we all help each other.

Yeah.

I don't even view it.

I don't honestly, like, you have to take my word for this.

I don't take a position, a vantage position.

I don't look down on anyone, which is probably the reason why I often forget that I'm a bit older, because I just automatically assume that we'll.

We all, like, we're on the same level and we all had the same experiences, you know, it's quite naive of me to do that, but that is the daily truth.

What works for them, I bet.

Yeah.

They wouldn't respond the same way if you were trying to, like, look down and tell people what to do.

Like, that's exactly what we spoke about.

What doesn't work.

So you getting in and amongst it is.

Is a perfect way to do it.

Yeah.

And I'm, you know, lead by example.

Yeah.

I've got great music taste too.

I say your word for it.

So we've spoken a little bit about, see the events and that feeling of community and passing on some of these lessons that you said, that could almost be like a parental figure as well.

Some of these people maybe don't have a parental figure or someone in their life to learn some of these lessons from.

Over the last however many years, probably like 10, 20 years, there's like this boom of self help, self improvement, it seems, anyway, I've been amongst it in various forms.

There's so many books.

Everyone's got a book about it, everyone's got a podcast about it, and everyone's trying to be better.

But a lot of it's very individual.

It's a lot of internal work, chasing your goals and it's not very community based.

Where do you see the crossover of those two worlds, being with what you're doing and bringing people together?

I think you can, you can, you can make space to at least achieve a few of those things simultaneously.

You know, I think I, I, and I'm not the only one.

There's a few of us actually, you know, who do that on a daily basis is, you know, if I'm down at the outdoor gym training, I will simultaneously be imparting what I feel is the little knowledge that I've acquired on my journey compared to some others who have substantially more.

But in, in so doing, I'd argue that I'm, I'm achieving both, both of those things simultaneously.

That's not always the case, obviously.

I feel like everything does need to begin with you, though.

Yeah.

You know, if you don't, if you, if, if you're not the change that you would like to see yourself, why should it be anybody else's responsibility?

Yeah.

You know, so I think that that is important.

There is sequencing here.

Yeah.

You know, start with you and focus on you becoming a better person.

And in that process, then you might just touch the lives of others.

Yeah.

Yes.

It's finding the people that you're meant to be around and on that journey with you as well.

Well, often it's the opposite.

Often it's actually finding who you don't need around you.

Yeah, yeah, that's.

Yes, that's the two parts of it, I suppose.

So this, I don't know if you're familiar with the.

The Lonely Chapter is obviously the name of this podcast, but it's this idea by podcasters Chris Williamson and Alex Hormozi, and it's the idea that as you begin to go on this journey of self improvement, you start to make changes, build new habits.

Yeah.

Slightly change how you are and the decisions you're making.

And in doing so, exactly what you said there, you start to drift away from certain people.

You realize who's not that same inclination, they're not on that same journey.

And you go into that lonely chapter and you go into that space where it does feel like it's just you doing these new habits, learning these new things.

And then eventually you get to this point where you start to come across more people who are doing that same thing, and you start to find your group and you go to one of your events and you find these other people who actually really enjoy calisthenics.

And then you start to.

You speak to them and you find that community on the other side of it.

Yeah, but it's a scary thing to go into, and a lot of people get scared and just come back to comfort.

Sometimes you don't have a choice.

Yeah.

Sometimes you don't have choice.

Yeah.

Going back is not an option.

Yeah, true.

And, you know, I can speak from experience, so all that you're left to do really is just wrestle with the uncomfortable reality, you know, of.

Of a situation.

And that is, I believe, something that most people at some point will experience in one way or another.

Yeah.

You know, change is.

Is.

Is almost.

But certain.

And it is very uncomfortable.

I think everybody has to go through something.

I'm no exception.

I've been through pretty, you know, complicated, very rough process that is quite unconventional, actually.

Yeah.

To be honest with you, very unconventional.

And it's.

It's armed with the.

With that experience and everything that it taught me that I can actually speak with confidence about a number of issues, but particularly those that may disproportionately affect young men.

So lived experience, some will call it.

Right.

Yep.

It's what you do with it, really, isn't it?

I mean, yeah, you can.

And it also depends, like, what you want.

Yeah.

Really.

Let's be honest, you know, I do firmly believe now that you can.

Life sounds cliche, but you can be anything you want to be.

Really.

Yeah.

But it goes back almost to what you started by saying at the beginning, like, you know, action and attention.

Yeah.

Or attention and action.

Yeah.

You have to be an agent of change.

Yeah.

You have to.

You have to do something if you want to change something.

You can't.

A lot of people sit and think about what could be.

And like, again, personally, for this podcast or anyone thinking of starting a podcast or writing a book or whatever it is, you can sit there and think about it and think about how.

What's going to be called what's what is it going to be?

Guess.

Is it going to be just me?

Is it going to be whatever, whatever the artwork.

But at some point you have to just do it.

Yeah.

And until that point, you're not doing it and you're not making any change.

You're just thinking about this thing that has no action.

Yeah, but, yeah.

And that, that, that lonely chapter can come more than once in someone's life as well.

It's not just a one time thing.

That's the other realization is you finally get through one, you find your people and then you realize you want to do something else or something, something else happens.

Yeah, something else happens, you'll have a major setback.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's really.

No, I, I, I, I hear you.

One thing that you, because that is also something that I, I think is helpful to prepare for the eventuality of something going wrong.

Setbacks are inevitable.

Right.

It's how you deal with them that's, you know, what defines you.

And I've realized on my journey, on my path that the amount of time it is taking me to recover from a setback seems to be shortening.

Okay.

We've gone from years to days now.

Obviously it depends on what kind of setback we're talking about here.

But I think the capacity to deal with change, respond to change, and appreciate that change is inevitable is a skill that only a lifetime can teach you.

And appreciating also that in any situation, even the really, really negative ones, the shitty ones.

Yeah.

Appreciating that even in those there, there can be, you know, a glimmer of opportunity.

Yeah.

And, and, and that is, I, I, I'm, I'm determined, convinced that that is an objective truth.

We learn from hard times.

We learn from, of course, but there's.

Always something in that heart.

There's always something.

There's always a door or a window.

Could be microscopic, but it's still there.

You just got to find it, you know, because you can turn something.

Yeah.

Into a negative, into a positive.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

The amount of people on this podcast I've spoken to who have gone through something like horrific and the way they can flip it and talk about it as a, almost grateful.

I spoke to a guy called Adam Williams recently on the podcast and he, it was more about his, his recent business venture and sort of taking that plunge, but his mum passed away when he was 19, so that's almost 10 years ago, I think.

And he's, he was speaking about it in such a profound way and he said that he's had these conversations with other people about like, would you have your mum back but not have the lessons that that taught you?

And he was almost like, I don't know if I would because the amount of development that that's caused him to have to do at such a young age and the lessons it's taught him and the empathy that he now carries into his life in the present, he'd be a completely different person.

And it's, it's hearing things like that.

It's just like it is inevitable but it's also necessary almost.

What does the end goal of the Spartan Project look like?

What does it look like in its final form?

When will you look at it and be.

I'm happy with that.

Listen, like right now it's, I'll be frank with you, even from a governance point of view, it needs urgent development because as the sole director I don't satisfy a lot of the requirements for many funders which should tell you something quite, quite, you know, quite, quite clearly and loudly which is that I didn't do this for funding for money.

I probably, and I will take a, you know, I suppose an approach and by that I mean, you know, making this sustainable.

Yeah.

Is the goal right now.

Yeah.

The long term goal.

Because right now it's, you know, it's not.

But again, to be frank with you, like I don't view this as a job.

Yeah.

For me, you know, it, you know, I suppose it's a lifestyle choice and having an organization set up that I can legally, you know, do community work through is the objective right now.

Actually maturing it, you know, developing a board, I have advisors, but I don't have anybody else as a name director.

And so going through that process of maturity.

Spartan Project originally started before people.

I'm the only one who, who runs it on a day to day now.

And so getting it to a point where it can become a bit more sustainable and maybe, dare I even say perfectly straddle the private and the public sectors because the Spartan Project is very, it's very eligible to work with brands.

Yeah.

Okay.

And in terms of like the, the impact, the social impact that it has, it's also very suitable for a whole range of different trusts and foundations.

But getting it to a point structurally where it can do that is probably the main objective right now.

Yeah.

And I again, to be frank, will probably only start thinking about that this winter because right now, you know, a lot of the work that's happening, the events that I'm doing and the partnerships that I'm forging.

That's that the actual work right now is the priority.

Yeah.

Right.

When it gets colder, when it gets more miserable, when I sort of retreat to the cave, so to speak, then I'll go through a process of, you know, getting it in a better state in order to achieve that.

Sustainable.

Yeah.

Sustainability.

Yeah.

Next year.

It makes me sound a bit like, I don't know, unprofessional.

I am conscious of that.

But for me the main goals have always been just doing the work.

Yeah.

Actually doing the work.

Because I, I've said this before, like this sector is full of people with good intentions and it's full of people who've received funding and of this and that and the other.

But does the work really translate into meaningful real world impact?

Yeah.

Well, that's debatable.

Yeah.

And I'm not pointing any fingers, I'm generalizing massively.

I don't think it makes you sound unprofessional or anything.

I think it makes, it makes it clear the sort of person you are and you're about actually doing.

Doing the thing.

Yeah, I enjoy it.

You're doing it for the right reasons.

And I wouldn't let, I wouldn't let the lack of funds and the lack of, you know, anything get in the way of ultimately helping and creating like opportunity.

I mean a lot of this, to put it simply, translates into smiles.

Yeah.

Again, we spoke about hope.

A lot of this, even in a microscopic way translates into hope translates into a better state of like a sense of just, you know, even temporary, just happiness.

Yeah.

So I like that.

That's what I want to do.

It helps me, you know, it makes me feel like, good.

It makes, it gives me a sense of belonging, you know, so it creates a win, win scenario.

That's the main priority.

Getting.

Making this sustainable, you know, and turning it into a long term.

I suppose vision is just as important, but not if it means, you know, not if it comes with limiting.

Yeah.

Any of the immediate impact that that is currently being experienced.

Yeah.

For someone who's listened to this conversation and some of the topics we've discussed, that importance of community, of having people around you in that sense of belonging.

Yep.

Someone listening who doesn't feel that currently they might not be, maybe they are in close proximity to one of your events, maybe not.

What can they go and do to start to begin to find that community and that sense of belonging.

When I'm biased, aren't I?

You know, like, because I'm gonna say, you know, go, go learn a handstand Right.

Go do it.

Go, go learn a muscle up.

Even before all of that, just look after yourself.

You know, I think the idea of just engaging in a very simplistic version of what I do and we do, which might like from a distance, seem, you know, inaccessible, like handstands and stuff like that, that's just an extreme progression of something really basic.

It's like an extreme handstand.

Right.

I can't speak more.

I can't speak highly enough of just doing a couple of push ups, trying to learn how to do a pull up.

Yeah.

You know, in that embarking on, I suppose that journey and kicking off that kick starting that process will.

Will lead on to something else.

Right.

It will end up involving you going out and then you'll probably meet someone, you know, in the same location.

Like a little bit like the butterfly effect, I suppose, really.

But set yourself small targets, small goals, achievable ones.

Right.

Some even say, you know, start by making your bed.

Right.

And then celebrate that as a small victory.

Now, I can't even give that advice because I very rarely make my bed.

Right.

Shambolic behavior, you know, first thing I do is make two espressos back to back.

No water, instant caffeine.

Right.

I'm ready now.

Then I forget about the bed.

But jokes aside, you know, celebrate small victories and just focus on, you know, doing the small things and acknowledging that that is now done.

Yeah.

Whatever that is.

Could be taking a rubbish out, you know, it could be sending an email.

Yeah.

Everyone has a to do list.

And if you haven't, then you're not really thinking hard enough about, you know.

Yeah.

The importance of having one.

Yeah.

It's that snowballing effect and you need goals.

Start small, little wins, and then it just carries you on to the next one.

The goal could just be get out of the house.

Yeah.

You know, walk around the block.

Before you know it, you're doing a marathon.

That's it.

Question.

The way I like to finish my episodes is to ask my guests to leave a question for the listener.

So I like to listen to podcasts and go away and have conversations about what I've listened to.

So if we could give that to the listener now and you could leave them with a question to go away and start a conversation with someone.

What question would you give them?

What's your definition of success?

Nice.

I didn't say over what time frame, I didn't say in what dimension.

What's your definition of success?

I like questions like that that leave it up to that person's.

Imagination, essentially.

Yeah.

That's good.

I'll give you a clue.

If it involves the material possession and you, you know, you.

You got the question wrong.

Yeah, I'd agree.

Christian, it's been wonderful to speak to you.

Thanks so much for coming on today.

Thank you, sir.

If people want to find out more about yourself, what you're doing online, where, where can they find you?

Www.thespartanproject.world [email protected] on Instagram?

TikTok I'm pretty easy to to get hold of.

I'm always busy, but I can always make time.

Always find time.

Nice.

I'll.

I'll link it all below so anyone listening can just scroll down and click and find it.

But for me, to the listener, if you have enjoyed this episode, please do share it with someone you think would find some value from it as well.

If you haven't already.

Wherever you're listening or watching, please do, subscribe or follow the shows.

It really helps the show grow and leave a rating too if you haven't done that.

But other than that, thank you for listening, stay curious and I will see you in the next one.