The salient point of this podcast episode revolves around the profound influence of biological factors on leadership effectiveness, particularly emphasizing the role of the nervous system in shaping a leader's interactions and presence. As we explore the intricate relationship between one's internal state and external leadership capabilities, we contend that many leaders may be inadvertently governed by their biological wiring, which can lead to feelings of disconnection and stress. This episode features insightful dialogue with brain-based coach Hannah Kurman, who elucidates the significance of understanding one's own biology as an essential, albeit often overlooked, leadership competency. We delve into the critical aspects of self-regulation and emotional awareness, positing that true presence in leadership extends beyond mere physical attendance in meetings; it requires a calm and attentive state of being. Join us in this enlightening conversation as we unravel the complexities of leadership through the lens of neuroscience and human biology.

The discourse presented herein delves into the intricate relationship between leadership and biology, positing a thought-provoking hypothesis: the disconnection experienced by numerous leaders may not stem from mere strategic or skill deficiencies, but rather from deeper biological underpinnings. The esteemed guest, Hannah Kurman, a brain-based coach, elucidates the pivotal role of the nervous system in shaping leadership dynamics. She advocates for a profound understanding of one's biological responses as a foundational element of effective leadership, asserting that true presence—an essential trait for leaders—emanates not merely from physical attendance but from a regulated and attuned nervous system. This episode compels leaders to introspect on their internal states and recognize how these biological factors influence their interactions, decisions, and overall leadership efficacy. It is a clarion call to prioritize self-awareness and emotional regulation as indispensable tools in the arsenal of modern leadership. Through this dialogue, listeners are encouraged to explore the nuanced interplay between their physiological states and their capacity to lead with authenticity and empathy.

Takeaways:

• The disconnection leaders often experience may be fundamentally rooted in their biology rather than mere strategy or skill deficiencies.
• Understanding one's nervous system is crucial for effective leadership and can significantly impact decision-making processes.
• Real presence in leadership goes beyond physical attendance; it requires emotional regulation and genuine engagement with others.
• Leaders must be aware that chronic stress can narrow their thinking, leading to reliance on outdated patterns in decision making.
• Recognizing one's emotional signals is the first step towards effective self-regulation, which is essential for impactful leadership.
• Seeking support is not a sign of weakness; rather, it is a strength that fosters resilience and facilitates genuine connections with others.

Links referenced in this episode:

• linkedin.com/in/hannahkuhlmann
• instagram.com/brainshiftleadership
• hanakurman.se
• powerhub.club

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Vulva
• Brainshift

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Dear listeners, what if the reason so many leaders feel disconnected from people around them is not a strategy problem or maybe a skills problem, but the actual problem is biology problem?

I believe most of you have not ever thought about this part, right?

So again, the question comes is like, what if the way your nervous system is wired is quite quietly running your meetings, your decisions, your relationships and nobody ever told you quite possible, right?

So today's conversations, dear listener, is all about something that we rarely talk about in the leadership.

Like what's actually happening inside you when you are supposed to be showing up for everyone else.

Stay with me.

Welcome back to another powerful episode of Mindweek's Machine.

I'm your host, Avik.

And this is, this is the space.

Yes, this is the podcast, but I call it a space where we explored the inner world of leadership technology and what it really means to be a human in a world that's moving fast.

And my guest today, please welcome Hannah Kurman.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you very much.

I'm happy to be with you here.

Amazing, amazing.

Thank you so much for joining us, Hannah, today.

And dear listeners, like, as you know, I always introduce you with my lovely guests.

So today I would love to introduce you with Hana.

So Hana is a brain based coach who works with executives driving transformation, helping high performing leaders understand their own biology before it costs their health, their relationships or their ability to lead.

We are going to talk about presence, real presence, and why understanding your nervous system might be the most underrated leadership skill of our time.

While you wait, let's get started.

Welcome to the show again.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So, yeah, I mean, you know, like before we get into the leadership side and the neuroscience part as well, I definitely love to start with like a bit personal, like what is a moment or maybe a season in your life when you realize that something deeper than and strategy or the skill was driving, like how people lead.

So I mean, what pulled you towards that brain?

And thank you for asking that because that was actually I have a specific moment in my life that will stick with me forever.

And it was a situation that was extremely hard for me, but it was also a situation that made a shift in myself and in the way that I led myself, led my team and also by that the result that was given and this is 20 years ago.

So I want you to take, I want to take you back 20 years in time.

And I was then I had a position in, within the Vulva group.

I had a team that was a worldwide team, globally.

I was out traveling.

I was meeting New people.

I was able to influence a lot of things.

And I also loved my work, and I do say loved my work.

And there was once one single moment when I felt that I want to do more.

I want the other ones to understand the.

The beauty of what we are creating within my team.

So I managed to get this meeting with my manager and I was preparing, I was preparing for days, I was preparing for evenings, weekends.

You know, I was really neglecting myself, my own needs, but also I wasn't neglecting my family.

And there I was, I was so proud.

And I went into the room and there were some other topics on the agenda and I was just waiting for my time.

And then when it was time for me to stand up and start to present what I had been preparing, my manager stood up and said that we don't have more time.

We don't have more time there.

And then I was just running out in my car.

I was sitting there behind the wheel, steering wheel.

My tears were just falling down, pouring down.

I was just shaking.

And I came home.

And then of course, a few days later, I was there again.

Because that is what we do, right?

Yeah, as leaders, we do show up.

But I can tell you that that did not hold or last for very long.

It was just another few days.

And then I broke, totally broke.

So I was home for six months, more or less six months.

And during that time I started to think about what was it really that happened within me in that room and within the other ones in that room as well.

So that was the start, starting point when I really, really understood that the emotions always precede logic.

I mean, that's such an honest place, I would say.

I mean, I think a lot of leaders listening will definitely recognize that moment where the tools, they had just stopped being enough.

So I can understand, really.

Yep.

And if, if you have to talk about the very importance about, I would say the misconception.

So I hear a lot in the leadership circles that the.

This idea that presence is, is all about the focus and that if you put your phone down and be in the room, you are present.

But I have a feeling that what do most people get wrong about that?

I mean, what presence actually is.

So what do you think?

Yes, and I'm sorry by laughing, but, but it really makes me laugh when I'm thinking about this.

Just take it that you do believe.

And, and I did as well.

I did believe that, that just showing up and being prepared and being, being, you know, do everything that was expected from the outside, that that would Be that I was present, that I should.

As soon as a question came to me, I would have a quick answer that I, you know, of course I wanted to be the one that people came to and got the answers from.

But real presence, Real presence, that is when you can actually be there, not for your own sake, but for the other ones.

Say, I am there to listen to my team.

I am there to listen to my peers.

I'm there to get them to continue their thinking and way of exploring things and to be able to be present in the moment.

First of all, I need to have a nervous system.

Now we are coming into the nervous system, if that is okay.

I need to have a nervous system that is calm.

Because if I am in, if I have a nervous system that is always pumping adrenaline, pumping cortisol, pumping all those hormones and transmitters that we need to have to be on the edge.

But if I'm on the edge all the time, I will not be able to be present.

So to be able to calm down your own nervous system, make sure that you are in a safe zone and really be there for your team, your peers, that is real presence.

Exactly.

Exactly true.

And like when you, when you say leaders think they are present, but they're not, what's actually happening inside them, like they're not aware of.

First of all, coming back to this with the nervous system and when we are in a constant, that we should prove our own value and we should be there to really show off, because we are.

I mean, we want to show off.

I do as well.

But if we are there all the time and constantly seeking for approval, that means that we all also are in a stress situation.

And that means that we have additional cortisol pumping up into our prefrontal cortex.

Our prefrontal cortex is the part in the brain here that support us with our cognitive thinking.

But when we get the cortisol pumping up to our prefrontal cortex, which is supposed to support us to narrow our thinking, because when we are in a stress situation and we need to run away from a threat, then we need to be able to focus on one sharp mission.

So that is also what happens.

Even though we don't understand it, but that is actually what happens, that we narrow our thinking.

We take decision.

We base decisions on existing patterns, meaning that if we have had one way of solving a situation before, that is the way that we are going to solve it again over and over again.

But do we know if that was actually the correct way of solving it or the best way to solve It.

That is the first thing that happens.

And yeah, I mean, obviously that's a.

That's a really important.

And we can be physically in the room and completely absent neurologically.

Definitely.

I mean, that's.

That's totally true.

Possible.

And it's a biological state.

And definitely.

And.

And if we talk about how it shows up in the real life, like suppose a real meeting room.

Okay.

A real leadership situation.

So what does it look like when a leader is not biologically regulated?

Like, not the dramatic version, but the subtle everyday version that most people wouldn't even recognize in themselves.

When you have a meeting and most meetings have some kind of agenda, and if you don't really know what is expected from you based on that agenda, then coming back to this, that you are in a constant threat mode and you're scanning the situation all the time, meaning that you are not present.

You cannot listen to each other.

Deeply listen to each other.

And quite often as a leader, when you have management meetings, you are also there to represent your own area.

But just taking that as a silo will not make the organization move forward.

So that is a real situation that I have seen too often.

I would say that we are there to protect our own position, we are there to protect our own values, meaning that we don't really.

We are not there really interested enough to listen to each other.

And also what happens then if you are not there interested enough to listen to the other ones of your peers, what happens in that room, you think?

Very true.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, we will continue to chase recognition instead of actually working together.

And also this, like, what happens to the team in those moments?

I mean, definitely there will be the ripple effect that leaders don't always connect back to themselves.

But what happens,.

A chasing battle.

That is what happens.

And also, I mean, when.

When you don't feel that you have.

When you.

When you feel that your.

Your peers do not support you and do not listen to you, what really happens there is that you feel more and more.

More alone.

And what happens then is that you continue to fight even harder.

So I'm coming back to this, that when you don't, or to, let's say it the other way around, to be really successful.

Because I do believe that everyone wants to be part of a management team and an organization or whatever to be successful.

I really do believe that that is everyone's intention.

But the question here is that we should be successful together and not as individual.

So, yeah, and then connecting this now, I mean, we can make this as wide as we can go much broader in this dialogue and discussion.

But what actually happens?

I mean, just going back to myself then 20 years ago, where I actually ended up in being home for six months.

Of course, that was an issue for my own health, but of course, that also impacted my peers, my teams, my organization.

So.

Yeah, exactly.

So, I mean, for someone who's hearing this and thinking, okay, I think I am one of those leaders.

What's the work?

Not the.

Obviously not the overnight fixes, but what does the real process of understanding your biology as a leader actually look like in the practice?

Always start with saying that you are doing exactly as you are supposed to do because you are acting and reacting in the way that you have been taught to.

And not only you as individual has been taught to, but we as humans have been taught to do because the evolution is there to survive, and our brain is here.

The only thing for our brain to do is to keep us alive.

It's wired to keep us alive.

Just by understanding that, then I would say that the first thing after you have that knowledge and you start to dare to feel your own emotions in those situations.

I mean, I can take myself an example and I can go back to this meeting 20 years ago.

If I would have had the possibility to regulate myself in that situation, the first thing I would have done is to just notice how my heartbeat started to pump faster.

I would probably have noticed how my gut was cramping.

I was probably going to be able to notice how my breathing got shorter and shorter.

And just by recognizing those signals, I would also have been able to say, okay, Hannah, you feel threatened here.

And as you can label those emotions, then you can also put them aside.

So what I could have done if I would have been able to regulate myself and.

Or to, first of all, to understand and recognize the signals in my body and then start to regulate myself by breathing, to slow down.

And then I could actually have asked, okay, I can see that we don't have time for this now.

When would it be possible for me?

Because I have actually taken time off to prepare this meeting.

It is important for me because of course, my manager back there did not say or act as he did to make me feel bad or to push me away or to cut me in half.

That was not his intention.

He has to say that I don't have any more time.

Exactly.

As simple as that.

I mean, it's not just about becoming calmer for the sake of appearing calm.

It's all about becoming regulated so that people around you can definitely or actually breathe and your state is literally contagious.

So that's, that's it.

Biology of leadership.

If I'm not wrong, you're right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So also about, like, here's the thing that I think is the hardest for high performing leaders is that they can intellectually understand all of this.

Maybe even felt it in a kind of, I'd say, session with you.

And then, and then Monday morning it hits and again the old pattern comes back.

Right.

So how do you help someone sustain this?

Like when the pressure is back, the calendar is full.

First of all, don't put any guilt on yourself when you don't manage to shift in a constant moment.

Because we don't, I mean, we, again, we are humans who are acting based on old patterns.

So it takes time.

But what you can do is that you every day start, or you start your morning with an intention saying that, okay, today I will, I will pay attention to what other people are saying today, or I will take.

Pay attention to my breathing today, or I will take.

Pay attention to whatever it is that you want to have as a small, small task.

Not everything at the same time, one single thing.

And then when you have managed to, to really pay attention, because it has not to do with regulating at first.

It's just pay attention and recognize the signals.

So when you have done that and you have started to recognize the signals, pay attention to them, then you can start to tell yourself, okay, so when my breathing goes up, then I should calm myself down.

When my thought is going back there, the same, the same thing comes back again.

He said that yesterday.

I can't stand this.

When you recognize that the same thinking pattern comes over again, start to recognize it and then tell you tell yourself that when that comes, I will shift that thinking in this way, step by step by step.

Amazing.

And so, Hannah, like, I definitely want to ask you something bit more personal before we close.

Like, there's probably someone listening right now.

A leader who's been pushing hard for a long time, who's holding everything together on the outside, and who knows deep down that something is not right.

So they haven't slowed down long enough to name it for that.

What would you want them to hear right now?

You are not alone.

I think that is the first thing to hear.

That what you are feeling right now is what most leaders feel.

Or.

Or not even not only leaders, we all feel what you're feeling right now from time to time.

So that is the first thing that I.

First message, the second message is that you can change it.

You can change the way that you're feeling.

By understanding yourself, you can take support.

This is also something that I do want to really give to the listeners, whoever you are there listening and listening to this and recognizing yourself.

It is a strength to take support.

There are too many thoughts out there saying that I'm not weak, I should not be weak, I'm not weak, I don't need support.

It's not a weakness.

It's not, It's a strength.

The strength.

Yes.

So that is also something that I really want to send as a message.

Be strong.

Be strong for yourself and for the ones around you.

Because what you recognize within yourself is also recognized outside yourself from others.

When you shift your emotions, that will also shift in the emotions for the people around you.

Exactly, exactly.

And that this phrase, I really love it like it's, it's a strength.

Asking for help is a strength, it's not a weakness.

And this I always talk in our mind over masculinity where I mean I, I feel like there are a lot of issues in the society.

There are a lot of thought process that been, I mean from, by birth we get to listen from the society, from people that we know and it has become a habit.

But the reality is it's your strength.

You should utilize that.

I mean like there was a phrase I actually forgotten, like unity is much stronger.

Exactly the word I'm forgetting.

But it is something like when you share, when you ask for the help, that means you are actually building something much more robust than what is happening right now.

So I believe that's, that's really, really a strength.

That is, that is really true.

And another thing that is true as well is that the greatest gift you can give to someone else is to ask for their support because that shows that you are vulnerable as well and that you trust that them.

So the, the, that is also one of the things that, that really, it's a gift to other people to ask them for support, whatever it might be.

I, I'm, I'm brought up in an environment where, where we say that you are strongest when you are on your, you, you should be able to cope yourself and you, you are strong yourself and so on.

It's not true.

That is, that is old thinking.

We cannot relate to that anymore.

Very true, very true.

Great.

So Hannah, I mean this conversation has genuinely opened something up for me and I know like it will for our listeners as well.

So for anyone who wants to go deeper with your work, learn more about the brain based coaching or just find you where's the best place to connect with you.

You can always connect with me on LinkedIn.

I mean, that's, that's one social media where, where you find me and you find me through the, through my name, Hannah Kuhlmann there.

You can also follow me on Instagram.

That is Brainshift leadership.

So that's another naming.

Brainshift is the name of, of the methodology and program that I have created.

And you can also contact me and set up a meeting through my web page homepage, which is also hanakurman se.

So any channel is available for you.

And don't hesitate.

I'm here to support you.

That's lovely.

So, dear listeners, what I'll do is we'll make sure that all of that is in the show notes.

And again, Hannah, thank you so much for bringing your insight and your honesty to the conversation today.

It's, it's, I'd say it's a real one.

And also, dear listeners, that's a wrap for today's episode on Mind Means Machine.

And if something in this conversation landed for you, sit with it.

Maybe it's a question about your own presence, your own biology, your one way of leading.

So those questions actually matter.

And you can find more episodes, show notes, guest resources at PowerHub Club.

And if this episode meant something for you, please share it with anyone, any leader in your own life who might need to hear it.

And with this hope, until next time, this is your host, Avik.

And this is Mind meets Machine.

Stay curious, stay human.

We'll see you in the next one.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.