In this episode of Your Practice Mastered Podcast, we dive into how AI and automation are revolutionizing small to midsize law firms. Join us with expert Robert Stanley as we explore practical steps to implement new technologies, streamline workflows, and boost efficiency. Discover strategies to enhance client engagement, manage leads, and scale your practice without losing personal touch. 

Don't miss this insightful conversation that can help turn your law firm into a cutting-edge, technology-driven practice!

Our channel offers expert advice on law firms, entrepreneurship, and success strategies. Hit "Like" and subscribe to stay updated with our latest content.

Let’s Chat About Growing Your Law Firm. 

https://www.Yourpracticemastered.com/Connect

Introduction to Automation and AI for Law Firms

---

Robert Stanley: One of the things that is changing the game, particularly, for the small to midsize firm is automation and AI. And that's something that I'm personally investing a lot of time and money and resource into, and we're working on solutions for the firms that we work with there. And I think that there are other companies like mine doing that. So if you're a small firm, especially if you're a solo, and you're not really investing in technology. That can really free up a lot of time to give you a little bit of space.

If the cup's full, right? You can't fill it anymore. Give you a little bit of space in the cup to maybe invest in some training or coaching, right? Give you a little breathing room, maybe give you the ability to invest a little bit more market and to grow the revenue a little bit.

​

Welcome to Your Practice Mastered Podcast

---

MPS: Hey, Law Firm Owners. Welcome to the Your Practice Mastered Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm MPS.

And so, I consider Robert an expert, as well as a friend.

Meet Robert: Marketing Expert and New Dad

---

Richard James: Robert, thanks for coming on the show today and sharing your wisdom and your journey. And by the way, congratulations on the brand new Bambino.

Robert Stanley: Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you for that great intro and thank you for the congratulations, yes. So, for those of you that see the bags under my eyes, that's the part of the Bambino process.

Richard James: Especially, when there's a little gray on the chin.

Robert Stanley: It's not like I'm 20 years old anymore.

Richard James: Getting up at 1 and staying up until 6 is a lot easier when you're 23, than whatever you are today.

Robert Stanley: We're not going to say, we're not going to say.

Richard James: We're not going to say.

Robert's Journey from IT to Marketing

---

Robert Stanley: Well, not everybody knows that my prior to my career in marketing, I was in the IT business. And ran some very large IT organizations and computer systems for little organizations like Wells Fargo Bank and some international organizations like DHL. And prior to that, was in the military for about 6 years, in the medical field of all things.

And the reason I didn't continue the medical field is because, I found out in that early career path, that really wasn't for me. If it's anything like more clinical, I wasn't into that. But what it did help me understand was, the bridge between technology and healthcare, it was in that evolutionary process in my career. And then the evolution between technology and marketing. And so, I came through as a technology foundation and all paths in my life and that's why I'm here today.

I remember, you and I were in Masterminds together. And you're like, I know this marketing thing, maybe I should do something with it. And I'm like, I could use some help, and I think our clients could use some help. So, why don't we see if that works? And then boom, it just took off.

And you've been such a blessing to so many of our members throughout the years, not only with marketing and understanding, whether it be Facebook or Google or automation. But really, this idea of building an automated systems so that they could have it operate in a small firm environment, without feeling like they had to commit this massive capital commitment to major software development or major automation implementation that you guys were able to handle.

Just gotten off your 70th hour trying to figure out, how to get all the work done? And you're just bleary eyed wondering, why am I doing this? This isn't why I got into this. I want you to know, that there is hope and there is light at the end of the tunnel. Robert, you've seen it time and time again, smaller firms that have made it through and step by step found their way free. Is that a fair statement?

Robert Stanley: That's that's a fair statement.

The Importance of Implementing New Ideas and Systems

---

Robert Stanley: But that also doesn't come out with some sacrifice in terms of committing your time to new ideas, new methodologies and new systems. I think, one of the challenges we all have as human beings is, we like things the way they are, but what's the definition of sanity, right?

One is, they try to implement too much, too fast, and then it doesn't work because they're trying to do too many things. The other, they just don't do enough or they're doing it in the wrong order. They're trying to spend a whole bunch of money on marketing, when really, their operational side or their sales side as Michael's super good at is not quite dialed in.

Cause if you have 10 leads coming in a month, and you're only converting 1 of those, what if you converted 3? Like, there's all kinds of pieces to this puzzle, and if you don't understand those levers, right? Within that process, then you can get frustrated pretty easily. And it's really, you see it quite often. I know you do Rich, and I see it too with the attorneys I work with where they just say, we tried that, it doesn't work.

Richard James: Yeah. The levers is a key, Michael.

MPS: Yeah, the levers is a huge key. Actually, you've said two things there, Robert, that sparked me a little bit.

Effective Marketing Strategies for Law Firms

---

I know you had a chance to check out that presentation as well. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it. Do you find that, you get a lot of people that come in that say, I've done Facebook before I've done this before, it doesn't work and have you proven that otherwise? And B, any takeaways from that particular presentation?

Robert Stanley: Yes to both. So, we often run into small firms, whether it's Facebook or Google or something else. But they said, I already did that, and it doesn't work. Oftentimes, they did that with their cousin, Joe, or some huge agency who knows nothing about legal process, right? Or what the avatar is for that firm? That's one issue.

The other is that, they may find a great organization that's good at generating interest and leads, but there's no process to close those leads, which is super important and helpful.

The Power of Facebook Ads and Appointment Booking

---

And immediately, we have some shared clients, right? Immediately, we talked to a few of those and started implementing that. I don't have the entire story of the end to end process, but I can tell you, early indications are that it's working extremely well in terms of getting those appointments booked directly off of Facebook.

One of the things that we would see is a constant complaint from law firms and other companies, it's just that, Hey, these people aren't answering my call or, they're not good leads or whatever the scenario is. So, adding a few little changes to the qualification process and then that self booking component, I'm finding so far that, depending on your practice area, it's going to be a game changer, right? Because every certain practice areas are different, like PI versus others or whatever. But this is absolutely a game changer for the majority of them.

And we stumbled upon through investing and coaching for ourselves, Michael and I, of realizing, Oh, wait, there's a step maybe we missed here. And I will tell you, so for those that you are listening, my business is no different than your business, right? Michael's business is no different than yours. Robert's business is no different than yours.

When we wanted to grow, we had to unlock the lever that was going to work. And what we discovered by going through this process and what's working today, we need to caveat that, today with Facebook. But what's working today is, now we've figured out, that if we add that little component of direct scheduling into the tier one or the appointment setting team.

And yes, I agree with you, for those that are using pay-per-click advertising and social media, that added step really is, can be a game changer if executed correctly. But let's leverage on that for a second. It does take proper guidance to execute on that correctly. Because most law firms are not going to have the thousand hours of labor to invest in this every month.

So, they need to rely on partners like your firm and others that can help do this for them. What did you find as you were helping them do this? What did you have to overcome with them to get them to take that step? Or what did you have to help them do to be able to move that forward? Or maybe, why is it just so important that they work with an expert and they got to get out of their own way?

Is there not? So, unless you're a highly technical law firm or law firm owner, unless you're going to spend that thousand hours figuring out how to do this stuff yourself, it's highly unlikely that you're going to figure it out just out the gate. Whereas you could talk to somebody who has experience in that field or is already doing it, and they could say, Yeah, it's this much money and we'll have it done in 2 days. So it's a key component, speed execution.

And so I think, one of the components that we didn't really may have not dived into a lot, and that I think is a key component is that, if I'm trying to book on Rich's calendar under a normal circumstance, like even this podcast, I think it was a month in advance, it's a month out. But I don't know what I would be doing in a month, and if you're a prospect, a potential new client for an attorney, there's all kinds of things that could happen.

If they're going through a divorce or it's a criminal matter or whatever, they want help as fast as possible, right? And so, the 10 minute appointment means, I could potentially book an appointment today or tomorrow. Whereas if i'm trying to book with the attorney directly, that could be a week or 2 weeks or whatever. So, what does that give the client? It gives the client, potential client, immediate satisfaction, that they've been heard and that they have a chance to speak to somebody.

The other thing that we have to consider in that process is, the follow up after the 10 minute and all the technologies that go into that. That's another thing that, you know, it's all about speed to conversation with the client, but there are other levers that we have to pull to turn that 10 minute conversation into an actual signed contract for lack of a better description.

Richard James: Yeah. And so, real quick as a plus one on that. So, for those of you that are listening, here's what I know to be true, Michael, you could speak to this maybe, because you've seen, you've worked with so many different law firm owners at this point in that sales function, that a lot of law firm owners have this feast and famine cycle, right?

To Robert's point, they're going to be booking out, could be a week. I know some firms that are booking out 3 or 4 weeks at this point. Michael, have you seen that to be true? And how could this affect that change based on Robert's perspective?

MPS: Yeah. Robert's spot on, it's absolutely true. And A, it's making sure that you've got layer between ideally the attorney and the prospect. And that would be an appointment setter, right? So, that's step one is having a dedicated appointment setter, someone that's there to manage the phones and manage intake.

Because now, we can fill their calendar. So, the attorney doesn't even have to be involved theoretically in the sales process until a signed client is delivered to them for an onboarding session. But you're spot on, Rich. Now, Robert, I'm curious.

I'm someone that good, bad, or indifferent with Facebook and technology. I'm just going to use my method, use my words and do what I want. And if they slap me on the wrist and say, otherwise, Oh, I'll fix it then. I know you have some thoughts on some best practices from a policy perspective though. Is that right?

Robert Stanley: Yeah I do.

Navigating Advertising Policies and Regulations

---

Robert Stanley: So, this is more or less a message to the do it yourselfers out there, right? It's not necessarily for those that are hiring professionals, for individuals like myself have been doing this a long time. We've already made these mistakes and read the policies, there's a key point here.

And if you make that mistake a few too many times, they'll actually shut your account down and you'll never be allowed to advertise again. We have some clients who have made that mistake. They try to use a different credit card and under their wife or husband's name and Facebook is smart enough to still not allow them to advertise. So, you need to tread lightly around their policies and terms. There are certain demographics you're not allowed to target for certain types of advertisements. There's a vast array of rules and regulations.

So, they actually have a policy now that if you use anything related to credit repair or debt removal or something to that nature, you have to be a nonprofit registered organization and you have to file a paperwork with Google to use those terms. And that didn't exist 5 years ago. And so, one of the challenges is when you try to do these things yourself also, is that these are moving targets in terms of what you're allowed to do and not allowed to do.

Some word of advice, use the document that we're providing and read through it thoroughly, right? Make sure that you're not using imaging that you're not allowed to use, for example, if you're in the PI attorney business, you can't have this massive car accident injury, they consider that too violent. Stuff like that.

So, you need to write, read through those things before you use those. And then make sure if you do hire an agency, that's going to do it for you, that they're familiar with this already, cause this is the other challenge we've seen. We hire the biggest advertising firm in Los Angeles. They're used to working with Nike and all these other big brands, and they're not used to working with small law firms and they are not familiar with these regulations and these rules. The other thing I'll add to this piece of conversation is now the followup process, rules have changed there. There's even in the world of email, there's something called can spam, which is really not that big a deal these days. But I think, all of us would agree that it's very valuable to get somebody's cell phone number as a prospect. Would you agree?

Richard James: Absolutely.

This is another scenario where if you get it wrong, they will shut you down and you will not be allowed to send text messages ever again, using that EIN business number. Because I could go to another platform, register my business, got to go through ATP. They're like, No, we've already registered this business, these guys messed up, he can't send text messages. So, knowing these kind of the rules of the game are important and you won't think it's important until you actually get slapped on the wrist.

The Feast and Famine Cycle in Law Firms

---

Robert Stanley: The one thing that we didn't mention, probably because we just have that curse of knowledge, we already know this, is that it's not uncommon, and tell me if I'm incorrect here, for the attorney, when he's really busy, to just be doing the work. And then the famine part hits.

Now, he goes and wants to spend a bunch of money in advertising and marketing, instead of having a consistent process and lead flow. They waste thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of dollars to fill the pipeline. Where is if they work through a system and a process and understand you're the 10 minute appointment thing. The non attorney sales person stuff allows you to scale in a very steady fashion. There's more to this than just understanding marketing. It's also just managing your budget and your workflow at the same time, would you agree?

And then as you said, it creates a bunch of waste. Because they're ramping up and then settling down, ramping up and settling down, and they never develop a consistency and a rhythm. Now, this is all good conversation. I want to make sure we're honoring those that are listening. Because if we're not careful, I think we could be leaning a little bit towards the fear factor of this.

Robert Stanley: Yeah. It's not all doom and gloom,

Richard James: It's not, to quote a famous movie line, the juice is worth the squeeze. It is worth it to have a professional firm help you do this and execute it. Because done correctly, the good news is, playing by the rules, it's actually a very viable way to generate clients that are profitable for the law firm. Did I say that accurately, MPS?

Richard James: Yeah, I'm just thinking about like James Housen, right? So, James Housen is a guy who started, he was doing $7,000, he was an EAY finalist. That's the Entrepreneurial Attorney of the Year, this year, EAY finalist. We had him on the podcast, and he was doing $7,000 a month. They did $142,000, I don't know, 3 months ago.

And so, that number is ridiculous. And I just talked to him the other day, and he's now hiring his second non-attorney salesperson. Because his first non-attorney salesperson is booked out for 3 weeks. And at the end of the day, he's doing it right. He's not breaking the rules, he's just following the processes and ramping up. And when you do this, it does compound. Robert, I suspect, you have found this to be compound, this compound effect to be true with your clients as well.

If you don't have a good post sales follow up, like for example, I go spend $10,000 in advertising. It's great I get tons of leads, I get a bunch of 10 minute appointments, but I don't have a non-attorney salesperson. I'm the guy that's doing all the closing. Suddenly, they're upset because they never got to talk to me. So, there's all these little key components. So, it's not doom and gloom. It's just knowing the right levers, as we said, to pull and write pieces to put in place.

And there's a formula based on the size of the firm. Wouldn't you say, if you're a solo or typical model. If you're much larger firm, there's another kind of typical model. And you have that data. And I have that data on the marketing side. Cause we've both worked with similar size firms from small to large. And it's my business is no different than yours. It's just knowing what those components are that make you successful.

That's the hellish section, we want to quickly leave there and get to the CEO level as fast as we can. And once we get to the CEO level from that point, the next stop is the investor level where you're not actually working in the business at all. But most law firm owners I know would be very happy to get to the CEO level. Where everybody else is running the business and they're doing the role as the CEO, but you can't go from small and solo to CEO right away.

And I know that's a general concern for most law firm owners. They probably err on the side of not wanting to over outstrip their ability to serve the client, they're all very good about that. But sometimes, they get over their skis. And that's why they need guidance from people like you and Michael and myself to be able to say, Hey, hang on, let's just throttle back for a second.

I know you had a great month and you want to spend twice as much we did on advertising next month. But could you handle the double the number of clients that we have coming in and what will happen to the inside of your business and being able to have that conversation, so we can throttle it.

Robert Stanley: You got to put some money in the game. And let's do a little history lesson here. When Facebook first came out, you could post something and 100% of your followers would see that. And if one of those followers clicked like on that post. All of their friends would see it.

Now, it's maybe 5% of your followers would see that post. So, it's not effective form of advertising. I know some businesses still think it is. I think, the only platform that may still have that kind of viral advantage at the moment, which is changing rapidly is TikTok. The hurdle with TikTok is 100% video. So, there's a lot of things there.

Leveraging AI and Automation for Growth

---

Robert Stanley: What I would add to this conversation, if you guys will allow it, is maybe a touch of conversation on automation and AI.

MPS: Yeah.

If the cup's full, right? You can't fill it anymore. Give you a little bit of space in the cup to maybe invest in some training or coaching, right? Give you a little breathing room, maybe give you the ability to invest a little bit more market and to grow the revenue a little bit.

Is that there's that constant communication of what's working, what's not working. And if you're living in a silo, you're behind your desk in your office at 2 in the morning, as you like to say, it's pretty hard to get that kind of insight and understanding.

Richard James: Yeah, MPS, that's a rubber brought up a great point. You're the youngest of the three of us here. You're maybe closest to the technology.

Robert Stanley: I don't know. I thought I saw some gray right there.

MPS: Yeah, hopefully not yet, but.

MPS: So, you said could, everybody could, everybody has the option to. I think the answer is should. They should invest that small amount of time to do that. Otherwise, at the exponential rate that technology is growing, firms that choose not to will get left behind and I now stand behind that.

At first I wasn't sure, but now I'm more sure than ever that if firms just choose not to adapt and adopt the new technology. It's just moving too quick and it's going to put them in a tougher position than they would like to see themselves in. So, I think the answer is should, and I'm excited that Robert and his team are investing the time and resources to learning this stuff. Because you've got a great asset there to be able to bounce some of these new concepts off of.

Now I know, there's some rules and regulations against what you can or can't do, Robert. But just speak to the fact, we've come so far now that a law firm with very little effort on their part could likely start to create a customized message for every single client they on board.

Robert Stanley: That's an accurate statement. And it's going to become, it's going to go much deeper and bigger from here. That I think, what Michael was saying is, now it's a should, it's an absolute. Because for those that don't adopt it, they're going to not only get left behind, I think they're going to get smashed.

Richard James: You nailed it. So, the David versus Goliath moment is really where we are, right? So, most people who are in PI know the Morgan & Morgans, Hastings & Hastings, Lerner and Rowe, whatever, name the big dog in your area. If you're a PI firm and you want to get ahead and you're the small player in that area, AI is one way you could leapfrog all the other competition and get really close to them.

Name the game, whether it's a fighting game. Family law firm, a criminal firm, an estate planning firm, a bankruptcy firm, an immigration firm, it doesn't matter what your practice area is. There is a big player that has always been dominating because of the old way things used to be done. The new technology will allow the new player, somebody who's just getting started, but has had enough chutzpah to go out there and invest the time and energy and some resources into learning about this new technology.

Robert Stanley: I would agree and I'd add an additional one to that. If you look a little further back in time, if you had the front or the back page of the yellow pages, those guys who stuck with that model got smashed by the guys who moved to the internet. And the guys who are just doing the internet now and thinking SEO and websites enough are going to get smashed by the people that are going to do the AI and the new technology.

So, it's a constantly evolving game. And if you try to stay in your old ways, if it ain't broke, don't fix it is the attitude you hear a lot, and that's true. But what does it hurt to invest a little bit of time, money, resource, and find out from somebody who's actually used it and implemented it, and look at that possibility that it could absolutely make you the new Goliath. Let's say, David who smashes the old Goliath however you want to phrase that. But you're right, I mean, there were these key little points in history here where those things happened.

Closing Thoughts and Call to Action

---

Richard James: We're getting a high note from our producer, but I want to make sure I give a warning out there. So, this is to the law firm owner who's listening. I don't know if you're, you've been at this for 20 or 30 years, maybe you've been at it for 40 years and you're wondering, Boy, I don't know.

I want you to know, there are some new young attorneys who are coming out and they're going right from law school into owning their own firm. Because they've got this entrepreneurial spirit. Because the internet is pushing them that way. There's more coaches information about opening up your own business and practice and they're thinking differently.

And so, that's coming and non-attorney ownership is already wildly available in 3 states, or 3 areas of the United States, and it's coming more and more. There's litigation every day out there that's trying to push that envelope. I'm warning you, this is coming.

MPS: First off, you took the words right out of my mouth. But secondarily, Robert, what's got you excited? What's got you fired up and excited today? Could be business, could be personal, could be both. I think we got a touch of that just a minute ago.

Robert Stanley: Oh, yeah. The baby's got me excited. And that's why I'm drinking the iced tea to keep myself awake. But I would say the most exciting thing for me being a technologist, most of my adult career, is this merge between old and new. When we talk about emerging technologies of AI, automation, CRM systems, practice management systems.

If you're still pushing paper and manually sending emails to clients to remind them about their appointments and all that kind of stuff, this is the time to really adopt this new set of tools and listen to a podcast like this. Stay informed, stay educated, and try to keep yourself one step ahead of everyone else.

MPS: Oh, absolutely. And especially, to your point, young attorneys and non-attorneys, it's coming. But, Robert, thank you. Thank you for investing your time today. And to the attorneys listening, thank you for investing your time today. There was a lot of insights to be able to pull from.

If this isn't your first time listening or watching, and you got some value, make sure you hit that follow or subscribe button, depending on where you're listening or watching and drop some love down in the comments for Robert. And let us know your thoughts on AI and what it's going to do for you are in the industry? I'm curious to hear but Robert, thank you again. I appreciate you.

Robert Stanley: Thank you guys for your time. Appreciate it.

Richard James: Yeah, Robert, you're the man, brother. As you said, we'll put in your show notes, the access to the document that you told us about. if you're a little confused about that presentation that Michael did, and you want more about that, put a comment in there. We'll make sure we get around to you and have that conversation with you.

Robert Stanley: I see her hovering in the background. See if the little crack, I think she's got the baby right there.

Richard James: Oh, nice. Good. I can't wait to meet the baby in person in Virginia beach. And I'm praying for you, for your health and for some sleep.

Robert Stanley: Thank you, I appreciate it. I need to sleep for sure.

Richard James: Absolutely.