Can we actually know the truth? And if so, how?

This episode explores how the four great worldviews answer those questions.

Today, we are looking at

the four worldviews and

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discussing the philosophical

category called epistemology.

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That's a big word.

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Yeah.

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Isn't that a fun word?

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Yeah.

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What's it mean?

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I mean, don't you just get excited

each day saying, I wonder if I can

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learn about epistemology today?

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I, I don't.

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One of the reasons we're Because

I don't know what it means.

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One of the reasons we want to do this

through the lens of the four world views

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is because it makes it more clear, I

think, and I think more interesting

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to look at each of the categories,

rather than just saying, OK, we're

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going to have a podcast talking about

epistemology or several episodes.

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So, yeah, we're going to look at the

four worldviews in terms of epistemology.

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What would they teach about

epistemology, for the most part?

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Cool.

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Cool.

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So what does it mean?

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Oh, sorry.

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No, you're good.

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It just means the study of knowledge.

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And again, like most things,

it comes from, two Greek

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words, knowledge and study.

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so it's a study about how we know

things and whether we can know things.

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So those are the two main questions.

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Can we know things?

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And what are the right

ways to know things?

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And, part of that then is

going to be logic as well.

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So logic fits in to epistemology because

it deals with how we know things.

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That's one way of knowing things.

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So why, why is this such a big,

important thing to talk about?

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This is crucial to us because we are

beings who act upon our knowledge, but we

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also have to think about what that means.

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Can we act on our knowledge?

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Can we actually have

that kind of knowledge?

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And we live in a culture, especially

now, where many more people are

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saying, no, you cannot know truth.

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you cannot know objective truth.

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And we are also living in a time

and culture where people who would

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not say that are elevating other

decision making factors like will,

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value, beauty over intellect and

logic and the ways of knowing.

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So it's important because it's

something we all do, but what philosophy

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tries to do is to get us to think

about that in a reflective way.

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Gotcha.

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Gotcha.

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So what are your goals for

this discussion here then?

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the goals for the discussion

are primarily to understand how

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each of the four world views.

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Would answer the basic

questions of epistemology.

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Can we know and how can we

know and then through that?

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we understand a little bit more

about the constitute of epistemology

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But more importantly we're able to

evaluate those four worldviews a

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little bit more clearly So that's the

ultimate goal is that we can say all

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right out of these four worldviews.

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This one seems to make the most sense

Intellectually, so It has the most

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coherence, the parts fit together,

it doesn't have self contradiction,

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it has the most correspondence with

reality, and it's the most livable.

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So those three criteria we've talked

about before, coherence, correspondence

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to reality, and livability.

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Yeah, and that's some good criteria,

so I appreciate that, shall we go

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ahead and get started in, in these?

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Yeah, let's do it.

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So let's talk about monotheism.

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And again, if you haven't listened to the

episodes before, monotheism, sometimes

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shortened to theism, is the belief

in one God who created the universe.

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the main variations of that are

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

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Now what do they have in common?

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What makes all three of them, even

though they're different religions, a

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common worldview is that they answer

questions about these categories,

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like epistemology, in a similar way.

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They would say two things.

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First, yes, you can know truth.

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The human mind is able to rationally

understand the world that we are in.

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We may not know all the facts about

everything, but the human mind is the

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right instrument to understand reality.

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It fundamentally works.

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Now, obviously, not every mind works.

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It doesn't work to the furthest extent.

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We can't maybe solve everything

but we can have true knowledge

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about the questions we're asking.

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For example, is there a God?

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What should we do?

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What is beautiful?

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What is right?

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Those kinds of questions we

can have true knowledge about.

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So all of them would say yes, we can

know objective truth about important And

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even metaphysical concepts, metaphysics,

just meaning the things that go beyond

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this physical world that we're in.

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And so the follow up question

there is, okay, so how can we know?

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Right.

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I think most people in this,

tradition or this worldview are

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going to give primarily four answers.

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One is reason.

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So reason or rationality, we

value that within this worldview.

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And this is a little bit more

distinctive, is the idea of revelation.

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Revelation like the book of the Bible?

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Uh, no, it's not.

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Actually, let's come back

to the definition and I'll,

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let me give the other two.

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Okay.

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Reason, revelation, experience.

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So just what we see with our,

senses, what we experience in

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this world and then tradition.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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I'd love for you to define

each of those for us.

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All right.

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So reason is just the capacity of the

mind to make judgments about things

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that it does not immediately perceive.

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Is that the, the logic piece

you were talking about earlier?

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That's part of it.

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So anytime we make a statement, that goes

beyond our immediate sense experience.

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Like, for example, that

the boiling 212 degrees.

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Have you ever tested that?

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No, but people have.

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Right, but I haven't.

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And it's not my immediate sense.

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I'm interpreting that from other data.

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Gotcha.

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So science kind of is built

on a framework of reason?

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It's reasoning, interpreting data.

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Reason, interpreting data.

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Okay.

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And so the data is going to be, uh,

classified with empiricism or I called

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it here, experience you're running tests,

you're experiencing, experimenting with

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certain tests to see if there's a pattern.

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And then the reason element of that

is interpreting that and saying,

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yeah, when you do this over and

over again, it turns out this way.

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And so we can say that there's a certain

percent certainty, that kind of thing.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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And in particular, it's about More

purely, it's about the things that

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we have immediate sense perception

of in the history of philosophy one

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of the great debates in the last Four

to five hundred years has been the

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question of should we value reason over?

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empiricism or empiricism sense

experience over reason and There's been

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a geographical schism in this So, the

continental philosophers, those on the

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mainland of the continent of Europe,

were primarily rationalists, that they

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valued rationality over experience.

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Um, whereas the English philosophers

were primarily empiricists.

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That's super interesting.

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Yeah, it is.

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And there's historical reasons for that,

but I don't think I would, I would love

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to dive deeper into and how geography

played a, played a part in that.

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If it did.

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Sure.

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that would be fascinating.

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So we've got, in the realm of knowledge,

we can understand things through reason,

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through empiricism, or through sense

experience, and then I think you gave

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to others revelation and tradition.

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Right.

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Tradition, I think, is

fairly self explanatory.

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Tradition is something that all the

worldviews are going to value to some

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degree because we simply can't know all

things and do experiments on all things.

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So we have to rely on the

tradition of people that we trust.

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But the, worldview of monotheism places

a little bit more value on that perhaps

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because we have this received tradition.

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And so there are things that we have

received from sources that we trust.

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That we value maybe a little bit

more than another world gene.

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And that bleeds into then

what's called revelation.

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In a way, revelation is a type of

tradition because we receive it that way,

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but it's fundamentally distinct as well.

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So revelation, yeah, it doesn't

mean the book of the Bible, sorry.

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So that The revelation of the Bible

simply means the things revealed to St.

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John in his vision when he

was on the Isle of Patmos.

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But when you talk about revelation in

theology or philosophy, what you're

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talking about is that this is something

revealed to humanity that they would

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not know otherwise by someone who

is not themselves a human being or

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limited to the world that we are in.

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Gotcha.

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Can you give, some examples

or an example of that?

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Sure.

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Well, obviously the most familiar

example is going to be the scriptures.

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So when it says in Genesis 1,

1, in the beginning, God created

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the heavens and the earth.

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We believe that the Jewish people

had believed that the Islamic people

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had believed that not because we

have direct sense experience about

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that, not because we had simply,

used our reason to deduct that.

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But because we believe that

that has been revealed to us

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by God Himself in this case.

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I see.

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I see.

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So there's a tradition of

holding the scriptures as

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something that are revelatory.

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Yes.

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is personal revelation

also a part of this?

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That's a good question.

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I think perhaps for a person's own

journey, perhaps that can be part of this.

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But I don't think personal revelation.

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has any way to be on that

person's home, own journey.

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In other words, if you told me God

revealed something to me that I

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had to believe, I'm not going to.

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But that's not the case when we talk

about the prophets of scripture or

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the gospel writers saying God revealed

something to them that we have to believe.

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Right.

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So here we have the choice to

believe in a tradition that goes back

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thousands of years that these ideas

of scriptures did not solely arise

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from humans, although humans had a

part in shaping that obviously, but

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also that somehow God revealed that.

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Another way to think about

revelation is, you know, picture

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us in this room right here.

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right.

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Say that we, for whatever odd

reason, had always been in this room.

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Okay.

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We were born in this room.

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we live in this room.

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we don't know anything beyond this room.

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And so we would not know, especially

if we don't have any windows,

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that there's a sun outside, right?

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You're right.

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We would not know about trees.

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We would not know about grass.

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We would not know about a

building's exterior to our own.

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If were in just this room with no windows

and no doors, we would not know those

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things unless someone came into the room.

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Maybe they unlocked the door,

but there was one and they spoke

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to us about things that we did

not have experience of directly.

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That's the idea of revelation.

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Okay.

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And again, that's going to be distinct

then from the secular viewpoint,

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which I think we could probably

label materialism or naturalism.

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Okay.

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So do you want to go on to that one?

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Yeah, but just to kind of summarize.

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So from the theistic perspective,

we say that you can, know truth and

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objective truth and the way that

they can approach or understand that

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objective truth is through reason,

experience, revelation, and tradition.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Yeah, that's helpful.

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Thank you.

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Let's, go to, naturalism then.

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Alright, so naturalism.

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the idea that there is no God and that the

universe has nothing outside of itself.

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When you look at the four ways we talked

about with monotheism, obviously one

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of those is ruled out of court, right?

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Revelation.

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Yeah, the room illustration speaks

to the metaphysic that there is

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somebody outside who can interact

with what's inside the room.

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I mean, that's an analogy of.

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Transcendence.

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Right?

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Right.

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And so with naturalism, there's

nobody outside the room.

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Just the room is all that exists.

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Exactly.

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So there's not going to be

anybody outside who can come

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and interact and reveal things.

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Right.

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Gotcha.

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Okay.

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And so you have to interpret everything

solely on naturalistic as opposed

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to anything supernaturalistic means.

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So in this perspective, you'd still

have reason, obviously, and empiricism,

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and you'd still have tradition.

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Yes, you still have those three.

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And what's especially valued

and argued about, like I said,

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has been, reason, I'm sorry.

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Yeah, we seem to have this, cultural

shift where we were very skeptical,

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I feel like of, traditions.

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Like, okay, just because people

have always believed that doesn't

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mean that that's necessarily true.

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We have to look at everything through

the lens of reason and experience.

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is that true?

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Well, yeah, but obviously it's a

matter of degree, not of totality.

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Okay.

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So, I mean, you and I don't believe

some things on the basis of tradition,

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so it's not like Christians believe

things just on the basis of tradition.

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And certainly, someone who is an

atheist or a materialist does believe

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some things on tradition because they

have not done the experiments or had

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the firsthand knowledge themselves.

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It's more a matter of how

much it's emphasized rather

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than it being there at all.

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Makes sense.

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Yeah.

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Now, reason and experience are going to be

valued, then, as the most important thing.

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And there is a difference within the

tradition of secular philosophy of which

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of those you're going to value more.

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And there's also an ongoing problem

in this, and that is the question of

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whether you can actually find truth

on the basis of those things alone.

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And that has been the biggest issue.

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in philosophy in the

past 300 years at least.

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Wow.

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And the reason I say that, I could

be wrong, this is my opinion, but

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the reason it's my opinion is that we

have moved in the West over the past

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four to five hundred years from the

viewpoint of monotheism forming the

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basis of our intellectual thought,

communally, to a naturalistic perspective.

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But the question is, can you

also have confidence That you

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can find truth on that basis.

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And that has been a problem question,

perhaps the problem question, of the

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last three centuries in philosophy.

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Certainly in the area of epistemology,

I think that's the most important

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question, most important issue

that's been at the forefront.

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And we're going to dedicate a whole

future episode to that, are we?

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Yeah, I'm thinking we will

because it's an important enough

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question with enough nuance that.

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I'll summarize it here, but

to do it justice, we should

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probably do another episode.

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Maybe we'll do it right after this one.

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Okay.

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But basically the question is, how

do we know if we have these two tools

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primarily of reason and experience,

how do we know that they work?

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how do we know I'm naturalistic premises?

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So there is no God and we're

not creating the image of God.

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So I should back up under

the monotheistic worldview.

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The human mind is made

in the likeness of God.

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Who is a rational being, uh, who

created this world rationally.

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Therefore, it's congruent with theism

that the human mind works rationally.

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Yeah.

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Now, if you get rid of that though, if

you get rid of the idea that our mind

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is created by a rational being, then you

start to have problems proving that our

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mind could actually understand reality.

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think of it this way.

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if there is no God, how did

we get here on a naturalistic

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perspective, how did we get here?

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Say from the, the Big Bang.

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All right.

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And then what happened?

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How did we get here?

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So it's a super, small sliver of

possibility that life happened.

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But then over time, as things evolved

and developed and grew, that which was

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most fit to continue living, continue to

procreate and develop different kinds of,

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how should I say this?

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Oh, let me just, let me just

throw the question back at you.

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All right.

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So that's a, yeah, that's a good question.

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What, what do you think?

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Okay.

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So I naturally took perspective.

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There is no God.

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There's nothing outside the universe.

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This is the whole shebang.

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Then the only answer.

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That you can really give is that it

arose by natural processes alone.

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There are no supernatural processes.

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This wasn't intentional.

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It's not purposeful because

there's no purpose there.

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So, we know that we exist now and that

we can think about things and make

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truth claims and we have consciousness.

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And if we also believe or to accept

the premise that all this had to

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occur by natural means alone, then

we have to out for a present state.

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on that basis alone, on natural processes.

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So we have to believe, then, that at some

point, matter either arose or was eternal.

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Either way, we don't have a

reason or a rationale for that.

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Somehow that matter, in a way

that we've never seen before,

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organized itself into life.

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So we have life coming

from non living things.

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so again, that does not mean that life

is inherently Um, able to understand

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rationality, but then further than

that, you have the unguided evolution

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of mankind by natural selection alone.

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Now you have that, then what you find out

is that every organ of the, of the human

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body, including the organ of the mind,

which is going to produce the thoughts.

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And if that's true, then how do

we know that it's selected to find

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truth and not just usefulness?

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Yeah, that's good.

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That's good.

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Yeah.

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And that's what we'll delve into or

another way to put it and the Christian

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worldview or the theistic worldview,

which came first rationality or humanity?

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Rationality.

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What about on the naturalist viewpoint?

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Humanity.

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Yeah.

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Because no one was reasoning before humans

got here, there I mean, maybe animal

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problem solving, but in terms of what we

would call rationality, it did not arise

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until after mankind began developing.

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So it's not something beforehand that's

there that we conform ourselves to.

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It's something that arises as part

of our natural selection alone.

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And that makes it problematic to trust it.

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Because if it comes by natural selection

alone, we don't even know if it's

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really fit to give significant or good

answers to these kinds of questions.

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Exactly.

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Gotcha.

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And that's what we'll delve

into a little bit more.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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That'll be, that'll be good

conversation to delve into.

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So, would it be good to

move to Eastern thought?

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Yes.

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Although, again, I'm not an expert,

and Eastern thought is very broad.

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Yeah, of course, so monotheism, to

summarize, you can understand reason,

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revelation, experience, tradition,

secularism, there's no revelation, but

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there would still be empiricism and

reason, of course, and then Eastern

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thought, are they thinking about it along

those same kinds of terms, or are those

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terms pretty much just Western terms?

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Well, yeah, pretty Obviously,

we're going to have terms like that,

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but we have to be careful we don't

interpret them in terms of our Western

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concepts, what those things mean.

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from what I understand, the most

basic idea within epistemology is

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this idea that ultimately the oneness

that you are seeking goes beyond

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what we would normally define as

knowledge or knowing or even reasoning.

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It's strange because the goal

can be defined as enlightenment,

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knowing, or Buddha uses the example

when people asked him, what are

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you in this, enlightened state?

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And he says, I am one who is awake, who

is awake to certain truths that he wasn't

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before and that most people aren't.

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So there's, in one sense,

there's a high value on knowing

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that's actually your salvation.

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In a sense, it's coming to, be

enlightened, to know, to be awake

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to the knowledge that, that all is

one and that reality as we normally

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interpret it is maya and illusion.

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So there's that.

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But then along with that, the

knowledge that we normally have

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about things is also part of this

maya, in a sense, to say something.

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Either is or isn't is a form of duality

and the one that we're supposed to be

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searching for in it and communing with

And eventually brought into is beyond

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duality So the most basic teaching is

that there is no duality and yet to

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say something is or isn't Or even the

law of non contradiction Is a type of

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duality So, I'm a little puzzled on

how that all works together myself.

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But from my understanding, you

have a goal of knowing, but it's

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not an intellectual knowing.

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It's more like a mystic communion.

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And there is potential devaluation of

what we would normally describe as human

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reasoning, especially making distinctions.

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so, in terms of how you find knowledge,

I would say it's primarily reason,

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mysticism and intuition, and there's also

obviously a great deal of tradition going

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on here as you receive that tradition.

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But ultimately it is this inward

union with the ultimate true, not

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an intellectual apprehension of

certain truths that that's your goal.

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So is intuition just

kind of like gut feeling?

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Like, you don't see it, you don't touch

it, but you just know, like, I feel this.

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Is that, is that what that is?

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No, I don't think that's quite it.

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So if you ever had a time where

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you were in a state where you were, well,

I would describe it as commuting with

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God or you were commuting with nature.

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And you were deeply at peace and

it just seemed like what you were

431

thinking right now and the state you

were in is exactly what you should be.

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And then you had a thought about

reality or about someone or

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something and it just seemed to fit

right in with that elevated state.

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I'm not describing that

very well, but from what I

435

understand, it's more like that.

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So like an inward consolation

perhaps, or just peace?

437

Yeah.

438

Maybe think of it another way, you ever

been enjoying a moment with your spouse

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and you're just maybe sitting on the

couch and cuddling or holding hands and

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there's this inward joy and rightness.

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And there's a part of you that says,

this is right and this is good.

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Yeah.

443

so the intuition is in moments where

you're, I mean, I get that kind of

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makes me understand the oneness where

it's just like, this is just good.

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it's just right.

446

Yeah.

447

And that's not as much an

intellectual declaration some sort

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of soul affirmation or intuition.

449

So, in secularism and monotheism,

there is an element of that as well,

450

because intellectual is just not pure.

451

logic and reason.

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I mean, there's a way in which it

resonates with us internally, but

453

this is a really high elevation of

that, maybe even above reason Yes.

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Yes.

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I would say that.

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And along with that is mysticism.

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So, that very much ties in with

that because I believe the intuition

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is primarily what you get from the

mystic union of various levels.

459

So mysticism is a big fuzzy word, but

basically what it means in philosophy

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or theology more technically is

an unmediated communion with God.

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not mediated through the church or

through the sacraments or through

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the Word or even through prayer.

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necessarily, but it's, unmediated,

perhaps the closest is the, the

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communion you would have between a

man and woman, in bed, So that would

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be an immediate union between them

instead of the mediated union, where.

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They're the things they

have in common or whatever.

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So that's primarily at the heart

of mysticism, what I mean here.

468

So in the East, that's an,

immediate union with, with the one

469

ultimately, So in the East, that's

an immediate union with the Ottman?

470

Well, the ottman is what's inside of you.

471

Okay, so you're thinking

probably the ba, the baram.

472

Yeah.

473

Yeah.

474

And then from a monotheistic perspective,

that would be, that would be God.

475

Yeah.

476

Again, it's not a personal God, right.

477

It's more the idea of the oneness.

478

The ultimate living force that is

in all things and is all things.

479

Gotcha.

480

Gotcha.

481

Yeah, that's really interesting.

482

Yeah, it is.

483

And because of this, then, the way that

you primarily get knowledge, practically

484

speaking, is through meditation.

485

Okay, now, how does that work?

486

Or what's the connection between

meditation and knowledge?

487

Well, because you're, meditation,

you're putting yourself to

488

be closer in that union.

489

Uh, but also as part of that,

you're leaving behind and putting

490

away from your mind the lesser

things that would distract you.

491

I see.

492

I see.

493

So meditation is the practice of

emptying your mind of the Maya in

494

order to move towards the Brahman.

495

Yes.

496

As I understand it.

497

Yes.

498

Okay.

499

And that's different

than biblical meditation.

500

I mean, biblical meditation

has some similarities.

501

You want to.

502

Put some things out of your mind, but

it's so that you can focus on some

503

truth in Scripture or as you're praying.

504

So there's propositional truth that you

are seeking to understand more deeply

505

in terms of its meaning and impact

in your life, what you should feel,

506

what you should do because of that.

507

So Christian meditation, and I

believe Jewish and Islamic meditation,

508

are focused on that, whereas this

is a meditation that's focused on

509

You're not removing yourself from

thinking You're not thinking about a

510

proposition or a sentence or a truth.

511

It's more this inner

apprehension of the oneness.

512

Now that's as best I understand it.

513

And again, there's a lot of

variations, but classical Hinduism

514

and in most Buddhism, I think.

515

That's true.

516

Yeah.

517

Waiting for some Eastern philosophers

to chime in, in the comments here.

518

Yeah.

519

They might be a little brutal.

520

It would be.

521

It would be interesting for sure.

522

Okay.

523

Ready to move on to the last of

the four worldviews, pantheism,

524

or I'm sorry, polytheism.

525

Right.

526

Polytheism.

527

We could also call that a

paganism, a belief in a multitude

528

of gods within the universe.

529

usually worshiping in some

way, some of those beings.

530

Yeah, and this isn't just in the

ancient traditions, but actually

531

probably on the rise here, at least

in the States as well, and in the

532

forms of Wicca, that kind of thing.

533

And we talked about Hinduism and

Buddhism and, the philosophy of the East.

534

But it's important to remember, many,

maybe most people that you actually

535

meet, say, in India, are going to

be worshiping a multitude of gods.

536

So there is some overlap here then.

537

Well, there's some overlap, but there's

also people are inconsistent with their

538

own belief system, just like we are.

539

So even someone who would call

themselves adherent of a different

540

religion, in practice many

of them are still worshiping.

541

Ancestral gods, gods of nature, they're

interacting with, with gods like these.

542

.

So syncretism isn't just a, Christian thing.

543

Not at all.

544

Yeah.

545

So I noticed the notes that

you've got Eastern thought is

546

kind of Hinduism, like as taught.

547

But then in practice, uh,

oftentimes it can be polytheistic

548

instead of pantheistic.

549

Yes.

550

Gotcha.

551

So in this perspective, and this is,

a hard one because there's probably

552

more variation in paganism than in

any of the others, but how would they

553

understand the questions of epistemology?

554

Can we know?

555

And, and how would we know?

556

I don't know that I've seen anyone

from that worldview address the

557

question of can we know ultimate truth?

558

I'm sure some have.

559

Yeah.

560

But I haven't seen it.

561

So I don't think it's

a real live question.

562

Okay.

563

It was kind of assumed

in the ancient world.

564

And that's kind of where I'm basing most

of this on, the ancient Greek world,

565

the ancient, Middle Eastern world as

a whole, even into Babylon or, Egypt.

566

But I mean, that's still affected

the ways that present polytheists

567

would understand their world.

568

I mean, that's part of the

foundation of their worldview.

569

so what you're going to say, it

570

No, no, no.

571

Or 10, 000 years ago or whatever.

572

Okay.

573

and in that, I think it was just

assumed that you could know truth.

574

And primarily you would know truth by,

experience and reason, they may not call

575

them that, but also especially tradition.

576

So tradition is going to play an

even more important role in this

577

particular worldview than the others.

578

So tradition is handed down, through

priests, shamans, other religious

579

leaders, through the generations.

580

That is what forms what you believe.

581

Gotcha.

582

And would there also be some kind

of revelation element to it as well?

583

You know, that's a good question, but

I think for the most part, not, so

584

obviously you have sacred scriptures

in many of these cases, but it doesn't

585

seem to function quite the same way.

586

For example, Buddhism has sacred

scriptures, but ultimately there's not

587

a personal God in Bud who revealed this.

588

It's more, these are ones that

we have especially revered.

589

to teach us wisdom.

590

So it's more, in my understanding, in

most of these cases, more tradition

591

when you look at the books or the

ancient writings than revelation.

592

Gotcha.

593

In a way that's not true of, say,

the Hebrew Old Testament, the

594

Christian New Testament, or the Quran.

595

But maybe revelation in the sense that,

okay, we prayed to the god of the Nile,

596

or the goddess of the Nile, and Uh, we

caught more fish or that kind of thing.

597

I mean, where they, they would

claim that that would be answered

598

prayer or revelation or maybe

that's not what we're talking about.

599

Cause not primarily what I'm meaning by

the term I'm, I'm meaning about knowledge

600

that you would not have otherwise about

the basic or deepest issues of life.

601

Okay.

602

Especially metaphysics.

603

Gotcha.

604

Gotcha.

605

So just cause something

happened that seemed to maybe be

606

miraculous or the, the effect of.

607

prayer or religious, right?

608

Doesn't that's not really

what we're talking about.

609

We're talking about the metaphysical

questions and that kind of thing.

610

Right.

611

And, and part of the reason we're

struggling here is we're asking

612

metaphysical questions about a worldview.

613

That's not really that,

interested in metaphysics or

614

the questions of epistemology.

615

Gotcha.

616

So maybe to kind of bring

us home as we conclude.

617

the one thing that I notice here is

that within the theistic perspective,

618

there is actually this idea that

our reason and our experience and

619

empiricism, like those are grounded.

620

In the metaphysic that there is a personal

God who is reasonable and who has created

621

creation in a way that corresponds to

that logic and reason and that kind of

622

thing, as well as beauty and other ways.

623

And so we as those who are made

in his image, inherit that.

624

And that's kind of unique to

the, the theistic perspective.

625

Yes, it is.

626

And it, it's fundamentally different

and, and, deeply important.

627

that one thing that there is a

rational God who created the universe

628

and created mankind in his likeness,

629

is the fundamental distinction that

separates theistic epistemology.

630

Gotcha.

631

Well, any final words or thoughts

on any of this before we conclude?

632

No, I, I don't think so.

633

Again, next time we'll look at the

question of can materialism or naturalism

634

give us an answer to the question

without that theistic basis that we

635

just talked about, can we trust our

own minds to make truth claims even

636

about the statement, there is no God

or the material world is all there

637

is, the natural world is all there is.

638

So can they even support

their own basic premise?

639

On the basis of that premise,

that's what we'll address.

640

Sounds good, we're looking forward to it.

641

Thanks.

642

Yeah, thank you.