Today I was joined by storyteller and activist, Ferene Paris Meyer.  This episode was humorous and heartfelt as Ferene shared about her experience growing up in a family of Haitian immigrants and how that shaped her current world.  She spoke about her awakening and coming alive as a proud Haitian woman and how she dove into her culture through food, language, and experiences in Haiti.  She also shared about how this ultimately led to her leaving her toxic workplace to start a business of her own, which centers around manifesting opportunities to have heartfelt inspirational moments. Ferene is honest, powerful, thoughtful, and someone you want to spend hours within The Diner – you’re not going to want to miss this episode.

*CONTENT WARNING* This episode includes stories of experiencing racism and hate crimes. 

About the Guest: 

Ferene Paris Meyer (she/her) is a radiant Haitian Queen who is here to live out loud and love deeply! Storyteller & Founder for All Heart Inspirations (est. 2020). Ferene create heart-centered spaces through storytelling workshops, community engagements, culinary art, and more! Why is storytelling her jam?! It saved her life. She was questioning many things, including her life's purpose and self-worth. The art of storytelling would help Ferene make meaning of her lived experiences, be open to new dreams, let go of past expectations, take a leap of faith, manifest awesome shit and more! She is her ancestors’ wildest dreams. And it all started with her finally being honest with herself and those that cared for her, Ferene was not okay back in Fall 2019, but she was rewritten her story! 

Connect with Ferene and learn more:

https://instagram.com/allheartinspirations

https://www.allheartinspirations.com

https://linktr.ee/ALLHEARTINSPIRATIONS

About the Host: 

Friends! Here's a somewhat stuffy bio of me:  

I am an author, professional speaker, coach, host, and entrepreneur. My first book, Leading Imperfectly: The value of being authentic for leaders, professionals, and human beings, is available wherever people buy books. I speak internationally to willing and unwilling attendees about authenticity, vulnerability, and leadership. My clients include American Express, General Electric (GE), Accenture, Yale University, The Ohio State University, and many others. As a speaker, I am doing the two things I loves the most: making people think and making people laugh! 

I host my own events multiple times a year. They are 2-day events called Living Imperfectly Live (and sometimes they are 1-day virtual events). They are a space where humans from every walk of life can come together to be part of a community on the pursuit of badassery. The goal is to help attendees start living the life we say we want to live.

Alas, you're here because of an idea I had a number of years ago and didn't think I was good enough to pull it off. I finally acted on it and alas Diner Talks with James was born! As you can see from what I do in my professional life, Diner Talks is alligned with everything I believe in and teach.  If this wasn't dry enough, and you would like to know more info about my speaking, events, or coaching feel free to check out my website: JamesTRobo.com.

Let’s Be Friends on Social Media!

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamestrobo

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jamestrobo

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesrobilotta/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/JamesRobilottaCSP

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/JamesTRobo

Thanks for listening!

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.

Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!

Subscribe to the podcast

If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Leave us an Apple Podcasts review

Ratings and reviews from the listeners are extremely valuable to me and greatly appreciated. They help Diner Talks podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, it would mean the world if you couple leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.

Welcome to diner jocks with James. slide into the booth and let's have conversations we never want to end with friends. We never want to leave over food we probably shouldn't be.

My friends what is going on? Welcome to another episode of diner talks with James. I'm James and I'm super pumped to be here with you all today. Welcome to the diner, y'all. How are we doing? It's getting a little winter. It's getting a little gloomy. We got to get inside and eat some cozy food together and share some stories. And that's exactly what we're going today to do today with my badass guest. I got to meet her a couple of years ago and an event that I put on called Living imperfectly live, I get a handful, maybe 20 people together. And we talk about where are you stuck in your life? What stories you're writing that are keeping you stuck? And how can we rewrite those stories so that you can live a badass life, the life that you want to live not the life that you think you should live. And I became friends with this incredible woman there. And I'm so excited for you to meet her. Her name is farine Paris Meyer. She is a storyteller and a wonderful storyteller at that she creates heart centered storytelling spaces through workshops, community engagements, culinary food, Haitian Rum Cakes, she doing it all. Her goal is to make a collective difference within her local Vermont community and beyond one story at a time. She loves to say that all stories are worthy of telling. So what's yours friend? Friends, join me and let us liberate our collective wisdom together through her work over at all heart inspirations. I'm really excited for you to get to connect with her. She's a badass Haitian and just a badass woman and I'm pumped for you to get to connect with us bring her out what's going on for real? Hey, what up? What up? Hello? What is going on for me? How are you doing today?

You know, I'm here. I woke up today I chose to do this thing called life and just taking it moment by moment.

So by free I got I got a quick question for you. There are times when we know a very small amount of someone's language that they also know and you want to flex that as a way to be welcoming and loving and whatnot. But there's also times where like if I brought you on I was like yo furries suck per se, would you? Not but you never know if it's like come on, bro. What are you doing out here? Come on. You're tryhard James You're being a trial.

That's right. No, I love that I love this. I love that little brings the culture into the day. And a little appreciation for where my roots you know deeply come from my partner who is white. He just I think he says backpacks it and like he says a few food things but like he's prepped like that's as much as he can get out of snacks when it comes to I appreciate it. I'm like you know A for effort, Josh. Thank you

Oh, man, that's awesome. Free and I'm so I'm so pumped to kick you with you know, this show is called diner talks with James and so he's here. I like to kick this off. I'm wondering, you know, I think the best conversations happen late at night with the friends we never want to leave over the food that we probably shouldn't be eating. It's a time for great stories to come out. I know you know this and and so what I'm wondering for you, do you have a late night guilty pleasure in the food arena? Is there a food that you love to eat? Or if you had like, maybe maybe you can go back in the day maybe you're more mature and don't eat it when I am anymore, but that's fine, but I'm wondering what's the late night guilty pleasure food move for you.

I mean, if we're just talking about practical like I don't have to do much to savor it. I just I love hot Cheetos. And today, two days ago, I was like it was like 1am I'm a night owl and I was like, I went downstairs and I was like I'm craving something but I don't really want to make those and I opened up the cabinet and I forgot there was a bag of frozen hot Cheetos up in the cabinet. And I was like This is life right now. I put it I put the Cheetos in a cute little bowl. Yeah, and ah, I love hot Cheetos and I the Hot Cheetos. That was my pandemic food when everything just started to blow up like, I would do these things with my family. And I'd be like, Alright, I'm going to the store. What is the one item you need me to come back with? And so they'd have their request, like, you know, the cheeseball containers like Twizzlers and Hot Cheetos was like, that was my thing. And then on a Friday night, I'd show up at 10pm with everyone's gluttonous stuff, and we'd watch a movie and have no idea when we'd ever see people anytime soon again. Hot Cheetos just really sparked joy, but it's like, there's some love or effort or energy. I'm a Winx. Girl and not. And I'm a flat person, not the drumstick. Wow. To bone flats, kind of sore. I love making wings. So that's where I like Hot Cheetos wings. Like I can't go wrong. I'm happy person.

That's a first off a beautiful, a beautiful pair. I'm with you. Here's my question for you. A lot of hot Cheeto fans bring hot Cheetos into other foods in their life. They like crumble them on top of stuff almost like talkies. Right. I'm wondering do you do that? Or is there anything that you put hot Cheetos on that I need to try?

Someone? I had a friend and they had an air fryer party. So it was a potluck airfryer party. So every item had to be made into an airfryer. And someone made these pickles, battered in Hot Cheeto crumbs. And they put them in the airfryer James? Yo, everyone was like, forget the chicken. Forget that. You were like, Give me those Cheeto pickle. Like it was a game changer. It was good. It was good. So but I've never myself up my culinary game and made something with Hot Cheeto crumbs.

Yeah, I've heard people sometimes crumble up on tacos and stuff. It's like their waiters almost make like a Doritos Locos kind of taco at home. Mac and cheese all day? Yep, for sure. Yeah, no, now, we need to get past Hot Cheetos because you talked about one of my favorite foods of all time, which is wings. One of the ways that I tried to make friends when I first moved to Minnesota is that it's first off, men are weird. And and we can go into that topic for as deep and as long as you want. But, but men are a fascinating species. But men whenever they hang out, can't just be like you want to hang out. There's always got to be something going on. Right? It's always got to be like, even if it's just something like a beer or a bourbon or, or you know, a cigar, right? Or it's like we're gonna watch a game or we're gonna go here and there's always got to be a thing. You can't just be like, you want to come over and sit on the couch with me for a minute. Right? Like, that'd be real weird. And so anyway, so my attempt to make friends was like, Hey, I just moved to the Twin Cities. I'm on a quest to find the best burgers or and or the best wings in town. Do you want to come on my quest with me? And tapping into like the valor and the courage of knights to quest. And so anyway, that's how I tried to make friends when I first I got to go out to eat with a number of different guys doing that. So it worked. But it speaks to my passion for wings. I also like flats over drums. I agree with you, but I don't just like throw the drums out it sounds like you're like nah drop. I don't even know.

I will do the drums. I will I will do the drums but the restaurants are places I go. Is it possible for me to get all flats? They already get 25% hooked me like like, like skiing or like so I appreciate the flats or I appreciate them connected like a whole like just Yeah, yeah, the different flavors.

It brings up the savage in YouTube is there a what is it? What do you like your wings in Are you uh Are you a straight buffalo? Are you a teriyaki? Are you a garlic parmesan like you know I can go through all the Buffalo Wild Wings which is actually a good time to bring up our sponsor Buffalo Wild you don't have any sponsors anyway. But what do you how do you how do you like your wings?

Ah, so I do like a dry rub at home with a variety of different spices. You'll Adobo little earpiece is a little Haitian seasoning, grinding down garlic and scallions and all of that stuff. And then if I want to step it up, there's a jerk sauce. I think it's called like Grace. I'm blanking on the name, but then I'll marinated in that and I'll put it in the fridge overnight and then the next day. I like either grilling them like on a legit like grill outside or the airfryer like the airfryer was a game changer for chicken. The chicken whole hustle at home like I love what the airfryer did to make me really appreciate chicken because it was just starting to fall back compared to some of the other productions in my life. But the airfryer was like no man chicken chicken can do what it needs to do. If you're not grilling it if it's not on a grill

Welcome back chicken. Welcome back. I personally didn't realize you had left. I love that we've been doing I love a good dry spice, dry rub. I do like kind of got nine spice rub. When I do wings here, I love smoking wings, smoking them and then getting a little char on them. But also we've been doing a Korean style like Goji Jain and fish sauce and sesame. And so yeah, we got we've been playing around with some stuff here at the house. So I hear you on that I hear. I love I love that we have that in common. I didn't know that. This is dope for when you are in the beautiful state of Vermont. Vermont is a gorgeous place. couldn't buy a billboard if you wanted one. There is just a stunning spot. That is great because Ben and Jerry's is there but also way more. How long have you lived in Vermont? Are you born and raised in Vermont? Obviously you are you are Haitian and culture. Tell me Tell me a little bit about your journey there.

Yeah, so we 10 years. I'm hitting the decade in this state of Vermont, originally from the Boston area of Massachusetts, born in and started to raise up in Cambridge, spent a good amount of my time in Brockton. But I've lived in Massachusetts for most of my life. So this transition to Vermont. I was not gonna lie, I was really kind of sketched out skeptical. I took my time, like my part when people asked me how long you've been here, I gotta do the math because my partner Josh came up a half year before us. Because I was like, you know, you go, you got the job, like, go figure it out. And I had just gotten promoted. I was in higher ed at the time. I was doing orientation. We had a baby. I was like, go get settled, and I'll come find you and but eventually, I did have to resign and leave this job that I love that Holy Cross and Nolen I joined him in Vermont, but yeah, 10 years. And it's been quite the journey. Because I was definitely not I never would have thought that I'd be that person to give this place double digits. Like when I Googled it, they there was no target no Trader Joe's. Like, where are we going? Yo Lightfoot? You know, I was wrapping my head around, where multiracial family, you know, I was like, we're moving to like, the whitest state in the country. Like, aren't we not a like a but like, a family? And I'm like, what would that means for my daughter? Like, will she lose some of the culture because she's interracial? You know, she's lighter skin than me. I was like this. These are all the thoughts, you know, like, is there going to be a white washing of our culture, dropping our family in the state. So I was in no rush to go there. Like, you go ahead. Strategic. But when I got up here, I didn't have a job yet. It can be tough getting a job like in higher ed, because there's just you know, and I just got to explore here for half a year. Instead, I got to be a stay at home parent. And Nala was to and we just the state was our playground. I didn't have a job. I called it I was like, I'm on sabbatical. That's what I said. And I was like, you know, cuz, you know, my worst. Like, what's the worst like, that was all caught up in my work. Like, I can't believe I don't have a job. Like my partner has a career like, How did I become the stay at home parent. But it was so needed. It was so needed to just stop. I slept so well. I ate so well. I worked out. I went to the grocery store, I cooked my heart out. I had quality time with my kids. We knew every park every event at the library. So it allowed me to fall in love with this place in a very tender way. And everybody wanted to visit because we were in Vermont. So I also pretended I was running a bed and breakfast. And so we call our home wherever we live the hummingbird. And so people be like, what's up? Is there a weekend open in February to come stay at the hummingbird. I'm like, let me check my calendar. So in that half year, we had so many beautiful visitors that I got to introduce to this place that I think was gonna become home. And with time we found our groove. We found our people Josh got promoted. We bought the home and you really have to convince me to live somewhere else. I really do love it here. Yeah.

It's beautiful. That's That's beautiful. And yeah, I love I love you know, in higher ed if you say sabbatical, it's a flex. Yeah, oh, sure. Okay, all right, Phil. Oh, nice. Yes. Good Anya. Good all Yeah.

Yeah, that was well played. It's like no, you're unemployed you do not get job free. Yeah, you know, I remember those times like I remember at one point like I was returning cans to the grocery store, because I was like, Yo, this is money like clipping coupons like we were in this one all sent in one income. We no longer lived on campus. I lived on campus for seven years. I didn't pay any utility bills. Like, I was like, what you pay what for cable? I was like, Oh, hell no, we don't need cable. I was like, we don't need this. Like, oh, that keep that at a nice like, 60 like, it was such a switch and existing and that it started to get nervous. I'm like, when did I When did living check to check creep back into my life? And I don't I have a college degree. Don't I have a message degree like, like, what like, when did I all send in travel back in this the way that my parents and growing up living check to check? It all came back in my 30s JAMES I was like, it was it was a lot. You know, I was like, I I thought I told myself that I would not put myself in the position that I felt my parents constantly found themselves in where finances and money was adding stress to the home and like you're deciding between the brand name and the non brand name, what's on sale, what's not on sale. I couldn't believe I was back in that mindset, you know, and, but it was humbling. And it just needed to happen. It invited us to really think about what what we needed and what we didn't need. And you know, right now we live in a four bedroom colonial in Burlington. It's a beautiful home and I love that we have so much more space. But what the way we threw down in that two bedroom condo with the number of guests that we had coming through in our first home. That was like we didn't have furniture because we lived on campus for so long. I remember us having dinner. Some of our first meals we had novelist Princess Tiana table that had two chairs. And then we had two lawn chairs. And our first guest Kathleen and Ben came to see us and we were like having like pasta like around Tiana table like and it was happiness James. It wasn't like shit. I wish I had more like we had exactly we needed in that moment. We had one food. We had a roof over our head and we were it was a new beginning. You have Princess Tiana and I have Princess Tiana a black Disney Princess like no Yeah. But you know, I remember her grill it was like a charcoal grill like those little circle ones that people might bring to the beach. Josh was feeding like 15 people off the bat grill like, and so it just makes you savor and like this beauty and such simplicity sometimes. So can I also appreciate the four bedroom home i i ination that either, but I'm not taking it for granted. I'm not taking for granted the four bedroom home because I remembered what it was like to lose our home. me growing up as a child like my parents, we lost our home, we couldn't keep up with the mortgage. We had to downsize like nobody's business. In like less than weeks, I shared a bed with my sister. I was one of those kids that went off to college. I was so excited about a twin bed, James, I had no complaints. I know what y'all complaining about we get to sleep in a twin bed by ourselves. Like

you know, it's just context right lived experiences. And you know, my parents did what they had to do. We kept we did not keep up with mortgage payments because they prioritize keeping up with the tuition because they had enrolled us in private schooling. And for them that mattered more. And so I'm I can't hate on what they thought at the time was the best decision because especially with Haitian immigrants coming to the US, like all that sacrifice was done to give us the best education possible. So for them, and I feel that the way that I moved through this world and like I'm so thankful for the path that they could put me on education wise and it didn't mean losing a home and downsizing. But it also instilled something in me that whenever I get my first home, I'm not going to lose that shit. And so I was the senior in high school working. And while people are putting money away for cars and prom dresses, I'm already thinking about a house James I'm 17 Thinking about a house. I'm thinking about the house someday, that I will have and if I start now, if I start putting away now then I can actually choose the house I want in the future and not settle. And so I remember when we bought our house, I remember that day, I remember being like, wow, you've been thinking about this day for like, over, like a decade plus of your life to be a homeowner. And I know there's a lot of there's a lot of worth tied up in what does that mean? You know, like, that American dream. Like, I know. It's this house with this picket fence. What does that look like? But yeah, I remember when my dad, I still have it on my phone actually a voicemail that my dad left for me the day I closed on our home. And he's like, you know, he's like, baby girl, you don't have to dream anymore. Because you're living it. You're living it. What like, that's the thing about life when you go from not just dreaming, but actualizing that dream. And I keep that voicemail from my dad, because it's a beautiful reminder of what it means to savor. When you've manifested the dreams that we're all so deserving of. I don't even know how we got here, James. But here we are. And but I feel like that's my life now all heard inspirations, everything. It's just about I don't want to just dream. I want to manifest those dreams. I want to, I want to actualize those dreams. I want people to be in those streams with me. I want to co create and feel them and exist in them. And it's been awesome to move through life recently. And being like, I'm not dreaming. Yeah, cuz I'll do that. I'll be like performing somewhere. And I'm like, did you just open up the flint theater for like, almost like 2000 people? Like, is this your life right now? And I and I'll pinch myself sometimes. I'm like, yep, yep, that hurts. You ain't dreaming. You're living the dream as that as my Papi said, you're living it?

Yeah, yeah. Free, That's badass. I, you know, I wrote down, they saw me looking down for a second I wrote down baby girl, you don't have to dream every more you are living it. That is such a beautiful and powerful quote from your father. And it's something that I think we all need a reminder from time to time, and not saying that we're done. Not saying that we got everything we've checked every box, we hope to check and never dream again. But at some point in time, we do need to look back at where we were and where we are, and be like, oh, shoot, I've climbed pretty far up this mountain. Right? I really, truly have. And, and so that is, that is really beautiful. I love it. You know, you said a bunch of powerful things in there. And I want to go back to some of them and open them up a little bit. One of the big things that you said early on was that, you know, I was I was nervous about moving away from Massachusetts to to Vermont, because what would the impact be on my culture? What would what would people think about my culture, what most people think about my daughter would be in a mixed race, family, etc, etc, a lot of a lot of really powerful things that, you know, I as a white person married to a white person, we don't, we don't even think about that. Right. And, and so I appreciate you the reminder that you're not, not having to think about something is often what privilege looks like. And so the but but I want to talk about that culture, because culture is something that we've, we've touched on in a number of different ways already in this. And I want to come back to it. You mentioned that your parents are immigrants. So your parents immigrated here to the United States to provide you with a better life, a better education, etc, etc. Growing up in a household did you all speak Creole and English. And you know, being Haitian being Haitian is something that is very important to you. There are times when people immigrate immigrant, right into this country, and they actually try to diminish the light of their culture because they want to assimilate more. Right? And there's all sorts of different reasons no one's right and no one's wrong, right? Families are doing the best that they can with the information they have now, but I'm wondering for your family, you know, was was it important to lift up the Haitian side while also lift up this new life that that they wanted for you whatever I look like growing up.

Yes, stuff that I'm still unpacking in therapy.

Therapists actually called me and said if you could ask

my therapist notes. So wow, this is the journey right that I'm still on. I'm still on. I, I would love to say that from the moment. My mom birthed me into this world until this moment right now, like being proud of being a Haitian American has been my vibe. But as you were saying assimilation is real, like trying to figure out where you're enough as you bounce between two cultures, your Haitian culture at home, but then there's this culture at school where that's predominantly white and then there's your neighborhood culture that all miss brown and black, you're just like, who am I supposed to be? Value? What like, it's, it's a mind it's a it's a man, I was like, Can I swear? Somebody Fuck yeah. Right. Like, that's exactly what it is. And I think growing up we spoke Creole and English in our home. But it got to a point when I was in like, kindergarten, first grade, my parents started, like speaking to us in English, because they like you are starting to use both words in school right? You got teachers and what are they telling you like English for like whatever it may be. And so I started to get comfortable with my parents would speak Creole to me, but I would answer in English, my answering English helps them with their English them speaking the Creole to me, helps me maintain like, having the ear for it. But we're like, so that was and then my grandmother who never pretty much learned English who had immigrated here. Once she passed away when I was in college, that was like my last thread of needing to speak Creole. Because now everyone could do either or, and so till this day with my parents, I speak English, but and they speak Creole to me, you know, and like, or sometimes my dad who's more fluent in English will speak English. So it's still there. But it's one of those where now, if I knew what I knew, now, I wish I would have been able to preserve the comfort of speaking fluently with the Creole because at the end of the day, now I don't have a strength in that language, I guess to pass on to my daughters. And so eventually it will fall off. Right? Like, and this is one of the things about even what it meant to start dating a white person. I'm like, okay, because once we start mixing the jeans, how do you hold on to everything like, and so? Yeah. And I think about that, and everyday, I'm thinking about what did my parents let go of because they were trying to hold on to either American or white culture? Because that's what seems to be the, and I'm like, What can I do to pivot that with my kids so that we're holding on to all of it, we're holding on to their blackness we're holding on to Josh's Jewish and Irish. We're holding on to at least some words, so now I have this thing where when the kids aren't listening, I just start cussing them out and Creole. Like, what are you saying to me? And it actually brings me a lot of joy that I can drop some things in words, and I have no idea what I'm saying. And I get off my chest. And then when I speak English, I can say the more thoughtful parents thing that needs to be said in that moment right now. Um, but my daughter melody, who's eight, she's really curious about speaking Creole. And so she'll be like, how do you say this word? So yeah, I haven't been able to give them the whole language, but I can still phase in pieces of it. That's the best I can do right now. And that's enough, because we're still there. We're all Haitian enough. Whether or not we're fluent with it.

Yeah, that's a powerful sentence right there. You know, a lot of people don't know if they should mask a little bit of who we are. Because they're not all the way the thing. And but yeah, that's a really powerful way to look at it that you are Haitian enough even though you may not be completely fluent your, your daughter is Haitian enough, even though she isn't as fluent as you are and right, and you go back to you're losing, you're losing your grandmother. And reminds me of the old African proverb, which is when an elder dies, a library burns to the ground. Oh, Jim. I feel that grabbing my heart. Right. Like there's that there's that point where, you know, I know for me when I lost my grandfather, there's, there's so many stories that I wanted to hear, and so many stories that I didn't get a chance to ask because at that point in my life when he had died, I was I was just getting curious. I was just seeing the forest through the trees of life and that you know, That was around the same point that I realized my parents weren't put on this earth to have my brothers and Hi, right that they had gone. They had boyfriends and girlfriends and had gone through breakups, and had we right, you know what I mean? Like, and so it was all around that same period of life. And, and so is that but, you know, he passed just as I got curious, but I was, you know, I was in college and, and cell phones were just turning into a thing. So we sure as hell didn't have one he still had a rotary phone. Right? And so it was we just, you know, it was that we had to wait to the holidays to enact and it just just ran out of time and didn't take advantage of the time that I had before. And so you know, hearing you talk about your grandmother a little bit obviously sparks that in me as well. So as you think about the Haitian culture, you know, it's something that you still speak you used to you can speak you do speak a good amount of Creole but you also are very passionate about speaking the language of the culture through food, right? Yeah. If you go to all heart inspirations calm, you know, I can buy a Haitian rum cake right now. Right. And, and so that, but is the power of food that can access to those individuals as well? Would you agree?

Yes. And so James, prior to moving to Vermont, I could not cook a lick of Haitian food if you paid me to, like I that was not a skill I had, right. So I moved to Vermont. And I start realize there is no Caribbean food restaurants, like here, like that's not like, so I was like you literally either drive to Montreal, to get your Caribbean fix, which is an hour and 45 from us, or university, or you go home, which is four hours away, and you're seeing home maybe three, four times a year. Yeah, free. That's not enough for your Haitian body. Like, like you, you can't be waiting on the joy of Haitian food and depending on somebody else to bring that into your life. And I when we bought our home, we started doing a lot more like potlucks with people and I moved next to this neighbor who was Mexican, who was also an interracial family, her partner was white. And we would do these potlucks and I realized when we do potlucks, everybody was bringing things that reflected their culture. And I was bringing a thing I threw down but it didn't represent my culture. And people started asking me like, but aren't you Haitian? Like don't you make that black rice? And I I do the Shane look down? I don't I don't make the GI Big John. John, I don't make the black rice. Or do you not make this and sometimes when it comes to your culture, there are things that people like are like, are you enough of this culture? And sometimes the questions are you speak the language? Have you visited the country? And like are there particular foods you know how to make and and for a while James? I just felt like I was like over three on everything. I'm like, No, I've never been to Haiti. I do not come Haitian food. I I can speak Creole. But um, like I you know, I'm not as strong. And so Vermont. Because it was even so far removed from my Haitian community that I have back in Brockton, Massachusetts, Vermont made me be like free. What do you got to do to like, Hold on to your Haitian culture, because you're gonna lose it. And so I found the recipes. I saw an article actually was on Facebook. Someone had posted it was like the five Haitian recipes every Haitian should know how to make. And so I clicked on it. And the recipes were in English. And there was actually like measurements because the thing about Haitian cooking, I'd be like, alright, mom, like, how do you make rice? There's no measurement. She's freestyle. And she was just shaking all things into the pot. I'm like, how much water was just like, I don't know, for me, you just feel it out. And I'm like, or if I'd look up ancient recipes, they weren't in English. And so I was like, Yo, this article is gonna save my life. And I was like, You're gonna learn how to make these things. And that's how I started. And before you know it, I was like, freestyling. And I can't believe that now. I'm in a life where I've done storytelling events where I'm the head chef, like, curating a three course Haitian meal, curating the recipes. I tap a few friends to be my sous chefs in the kitchen, and we throw down Haitian food, and I'm like, I did that shit. I did. Like I did that shit like, and once I went to my back in 2017 was the first time I got to visit Haiti for the first time. That was one of the major puzzle pieces that I needed in my life to pick up.

Yeah. You know, I feel like we go through life, and we're picking up the puzzle pieces that are kind of evolving into this human that we're becoming. And when I went to Haiti, I was like, Where have you been my whole life, because even though it was my first time being in the country, putting my foot on the land, it all felt so familiar. So it was all new. And it was all like, but I've been here before, or I've tasted this, or like, I know, this water, right? Like, it was everything. And so I experienced visiting Haiti for the first time with my family. So both my partner and my kids, and I all experienced Haiti for the first time, and seeing us all take in what it meant, right. And, for me, it was, it was so needed, and 2017 Actually, after that trip, I like had a nervous breakdown, James, and I think the island really woke up in me, the ancestors were like, Yo, for rain, you have to start living in your truth of who you are like, this is the island, you come from, like the first black Republic, to freakin get their freedom and kick out France. And we've paid the price for that, since then, but we are a country of strength and resiliency, and culture and music. And so I think when I came back to Vermont, I had a culture shock, because I was like, Oh, my God, I'm stuck here, these white people are taking away my identity, like racism, I want to like, and so sometimes we have to completely melt into a mess, in order to like rise like a phoenix. And that's kind of what happened after my first trip to Haiti. And then I went back two years later, and kind of the same thing kind of happened. And that's kind of when I met you. And that's when I started dabbling into storytelling. And because, again, the land was like, for me, you know, who you are, you know, who you are. And I feel like each time I go back, I was picking up the parts of me that I had let either dim down or fall off because of just the, the whiteness that can happen in the spaces that I'm a part of, you know, and I, and I just, I've never felt so deeply connected to my Haitian culture, you know, like I, you know, once upon a time, I remember being in high school and wanting to like play it down. Because at that time, there were all these stereotypes of what a Haitian was, you know, like, I'm a more light skinned black woman, like, I was just like, I could, I could pass, you know, like, and, yeah, not anymore. I'm like, it's just who I am. This is my island. Yeah, she's been through some stuff. There's some hard stuff happening. But we know who we are. And we hustle, and we figure it out. And I love that and I love weaving that part of my identity into some of the storytelling offerings that I do. A place like y'all are gonna know about y'all gonna know about Haiti, and not the single danger story that the media keeps telling you about Haiti. Haiti, um, Haiti.

Yes, yes. Beautiful, you know, if what you just said is really relevant, because, I mean, Hades, Hades, obviously, having a tough existence, right. Like, the past few years. I've been really hard. And with the assassination, earthquakes, the disease, it's Oh, poverty is always unfortunately, Hey, she's been a poverty stricken country. And, and it is a place that is very easy to ride off. Right? It's just this tiny little part, right. And everybody has to go to Punta Cana on the other side. Right? And, and it's just, people don't really understand like I got so Dr. And hey, anyway, so yada, yada, yada. It is a misunderstood place. And it's easy. Things like that are easily how to try to phrase this in a way that actually makes sense. Places like that can easily stay misunderstood. Yeah. If people don't make the choice to learn, to make the choice to listen, to listen to whatever right and it's also very easy to be like, Oh my gosh, you're Haitian. I'm so sorry. Oh, and like

to party right there because so I'll never forget. When I was working in higher ed, I was giving I was leading a meeting, and I was giving them a heads up I'm gonna be out of town for the next 10 days. And I said, like, I'm going to Haiti. So just pay attention to the emails and someone in the room goes, you're going to do service work for me. And I had this like, W. T, like in my head. I was like, Did you just ask me that white woman? Did you? Did you just, I sit on going away to Haiti for 10 days. And the question that comes out of your mouth is, am I going to go to service? If I had said, I'm going to Italy, if I had said I was going to California, if I was even saying I was going to Jamaica, you would have never said that. And so you're like that there is such a misunderstood story. And so for me with every trip, people is like, you're making me so jealous with what you're doing. I go, I know, you're my social media is going to explode about these beaches and these meals and the people and the culture. Because I will not have someone try to shame me again, in a meeting like that. And asked me, if I'm going to do service. When I'm like I am going on, I'm going to return back to the island. That is a part of my ancestry. Like my family and I are going to live our best life. There's not service here. Which is why to with all heard inspirations, I have to keep reminding people about me being Haitian and not co opting me and putting me in a different bracket like, Yes, I'm so proud. I'm a proud black woman. I'm a proud black Haitian woman. Yes. But yes, you were talking about? Yeah, yes. And what you were saying to it's not even I think right now the media is seeing, they're making everyone see that things are really wild. But honestly, James, it's been like that, since since being colonized. Like, it's never gotten a break. That's the like, she's never Haiti, she's, that's her pronouns that I give her. She's never been allowed to rest. From the moment, they came onto her land. And even after fighting them and getting their opponent, like, they're still paying the price. And then it's like, it's like, what people have felt in this pandemic, like, When is this gonna stop? I'm running on fumes. I can't seem to catch my next break. I'm exhausted. That's like being black and colonized. And all of that, like that is the like, you know, and in those moments, still trying to figure out how to find joy, how to still have purpose, you know, how to still tend to people and save her life. Like, yeah, I feel for her. And I think that's why I so connected with those trips. Because as a black woman, How often have I we feel that people misunderstand what it means to exist in this body? misunderstand what it means that what it means to be I'm not black and angry. I'm black and exhausted by not having basic human needs not met. That that is what's fueling this passion, right? Like, I feel like Katie reminds me of what it means to they're gonna try to tell you what your story is freeing, but you know who you are. Remember who you are. The joy the hard times, all of it is part of the beautiful imperfection of the story. So yeah, so it those trips really were part a crucial part in my healing journey. And what has allowed me to be able to wake up in present day time moving through life the way that I do with with tenderness, Grace, but bold flexing a little bit. Yeah, you don't know who I am. I was like, keep messing with me. I got a good following. Like, like, for like, you want to collaborate. I'm bringing you a gift you're going on this thing with me and I love that I love I love that I have my voice again. I love that I'm remembering who my ancestors are. Again, first back black Republic. So that's sometimes some of the way I put myself up before shit if I'm nervous. I'm like girl

you from the new you from Haiti you buy you can go on this stage, you get you can handle 20 minutes like go Remember, you're remembering who you are. And I think that's the difference because often we were waiting for people to remind us who we are. And like, there's no time for that sometimes, sometimes we got to be our own cheerleaders, I don't got time to rally up team Corinne to, to like, hype me up, or I don't order to help dismantle the gaslighting happening in my head, you know, like, how do we do that for ourselves as well. So I lean on my country, and I lean on the culture and the history of it. For those moments.

Yes. Often, we are waiting for people to remind us of who we are. Well, come on now. God, that's so much. And that's so true in every way. Like, yes, that is. That is true culturally. And it's also just, it's true when you know, with how beautiful you are with how smart you are, with how capable you are with how driven with how, what's, you know, the dreams that you have with, you know, all that kind of stuff, right? Your resiliency, right? It's it that that sentence could be really extrapolated into a whole bunch of beautiful places. And, yeah, I love that. And thank you, thank you for doing basically exactly what I was going to wind up asking you to do. Which is, you know, a lot of people aren't going to have the opportunity to go to Haiti, whenever they do scrounge up, what kind of scratch that they have, and their vacation days, and their etc, etc, you know, he's not going to be on the top of a lot of people's lists. And in some ways, I understand it, because it's what they've been taught. Right. And, and etc, you know, for all the excuses that we can come up with and reasons, some good, some unfortunate, it just is what it is. And so since we can't travel, many will not be able to travel to Haiti, and experience what have you experienced, eaten the food, you've eaten meat, met, the people you've met, walk, the beaches, you've walked, etc, etc. Seen what you've seen? What you just shared is so beautiful and so important. And I just want to thank you, thank you for being in my head was exactly where I wanted to go with that. But more importantly, thank you for being the light for a country that is consistently misrepresented, misunderstood and pitied in a really unfortunate and insulting way. And a lot of times, so. Yeah, I really appreciate you, friend. I also love how you know, you're talking about your first trip back and I think you said is 2017 Yeah, two, you went to Haiti. And then you went back to Vermont, and you're like, What the hell am I supposed to do here? I think I think we can both agree and I have been at I was supposed to go to Haiti, ironically, on a service trip, but I was supposed to go to Haiti.

It is what it is.

Yeah. They do both exist. You're not off the hook, random white lady and Marines meeting. But, but still. So neither am I. But either way, I think we can both agree, even though I haven't been there, that Vermont may be the opposite of Haiti. You know, on paper, right? At the end of the day, we're humans, we love we have needs, we care for each other. There is far more things that connect us and divide us. But on paper, the two look quite different. And you move To Vermont, as you mentioned, as a mixed race family as a proud black woman. And you know, and and we could see the way the polls work. Vermont's one of those states that on election day, it's like, already gone Democrat. And it literally says with point, oh, one of precincts respond, districts reporting. It's like someone sneezed on a voting machine in Vermont like that. That's Democrat. Right. And so, it's interesting, and we don't need to dive too deep into into politics. I want to stay on the humanity side of things. But oftentimes, we equate, you know, democratic with a more open minded liberal, social justice leaning. And that's not always the case, right? A lot of times it's a bunch of well intended white people who who know what to say, but don't necessarily know how to act and know what to do and, and we're able to live in bubbles, right. Like I lived in Brooklyn, New York for a long time. And in a in a white part of Brooklyn. Brooklyn is deeply blue. I think it was 92% debt voted Democrat in the last election. And, and so it's also an incredibly diverse place now, but either way, right? It's possible to be a white person in our little bubble, etc, etc, fighting fights that are important, but we don't necessarily know why we're fighting them, or not fighting fights, but at the same time being like a shaman, someone should change that. Right? So they should really figure that out. I'll vote for so and so. Right. And thank you for your votes, keep voting. What, but at the end of the day, at the end of the day, your lived experience or what is a predominantly white state that is politically liberal leaning, there's got to be fascinating because a racists are everywhere. well intentioned people are everywhere. And people who are doing the right thing are everywhere. And so I would love for you to maybe speak a little bit to your experience about that, and why, why and if you could tie in a little bit of all hard inspirations in the air, because, you know, you specifically talk about on your website, really wanting to make a collective difference within your local Vermont community. So if you could, if I could force you to tie all that together, and a bow that just go ahead with that.

He's gonna test if I'm, am I enough? Am I a good storyteller? All right, let's go. All right, what's, what's my opening line? Where are we going? But no, so James, wow. So here's the deal, right? This is the this is the danger, right? That's when we talk about those single stories. Vermont, so liberal, it's so liberal, like, come to Vermont. Vermont is racist as fuck. Because, like, the danger is we, we want to think this is what the image is here. This is who we are. Yet, what is meant to be in this community. And what I have experienced, I'm gonna have to talk about everybody else what I have experienced personally, in 10 years. There's been some really heartbreaking stuff when it comes in particular around grief for me. And there's two things that I want to talk about where we felt the clash of y'all say you're liberal, but when it comes time to show up and actually like, walk the walk or do the action, silent, or you're so performative, right? Like, again, this exists everywhere. But the reason why we moved to Vermont is because my partner got a job coaching men's basketball at St. Michael's College. So that's what brought us up here. So eventually, Josh, when he became the head coach, there's a exhibition game that St. Michael's College where he worked and unit UVM, where I work, those two basketball teams play an exhibition game at the beginning of the basketball season every year. So one of those years, this was 2017, I don't know people are connecting the dots about what 2017 The meant to our family. It was, but in 2017, when St. Michael's played against UVM, Josh had a handful of players of color on this team. And it was around the time a year later, when Kaepernick started the taking of the knee. There's like it's the beginning movements of black lives matter, all of this stuff. So the way people are embracing it more these days, that just wasn't the energy of 2017 You're on the outlier. You were an out shooter. And Josh and his players demonstrated at that game, and many of them chose to take a knee including all three white coaches. And I was sitting behind the team bench with my daughters. And I knew that they were going to do this and I had my own anxious thoughts about what that could mean in this very gym filled with all these local Vermonters and it all went to shit the way that my heart, mind soul, thought it would. The minute that Anthem started playing and people saw those men of color taking a knee and those coaches 3000 spectators and in that all that energy you hear people shouting, go back to Africa. Stand up. Get up now like all like the shit just got so ugly and hostile. And it's like, oh, Vermont, you're so liberal. Oh UVM and your integrity, your common ground values of integrity and openness like

your colors are showing right now. And to be a black woman in that building, surrounded by a sea of whiteness, with my daughters who at the time or like They were at biddies like we're talking like what? Like two and six may be seeing these players that I care so deeply about, get all these racist or harsh comments shouted at them. And then after the anthem was done, we just went to business as usual. No one even addressed what just happened. The announcer was like, Alright, we're going to start the game. In the game had the president of the university at for UVM, it had the provost, I'm sitting there in that gym like is somebody going to say or do something. And then at one point, this white man comes and starts talking smack to Josh and his players who are huddled up because now they got to play a game after the room just shitted on them. James, I'm at the point where my black Mama Bear heart just can't take the complicity and silence anymore. And the bystander energy, I literally get in this white dude face, because I'm done. And I'm like, You are not talking to this team like, and at one point, people broke us up. And I got told to calm down or else I'd get kicked out and white dude just got to walk away. And nobody addressed the fact that he originally the reason why we're in this is because he came up starting to talk vulgar and shit to the players while they're huddling up trying to get and y'all this security, but nobody's doing anything. So I finally did something. Because it's one of those moments as a black person, you're like, somebody is going to do something, somebody who's white, who's not as fired up as me right now, because of what you're going to do something and to see nothing get done. And then when I chose to do something, finally, which shouldn't have even been my job, because the cop should have been doing that. I get checked. Yo, James. I remember feeling so angry. so ashamed. I'm like, this room did exactly what I didn't want them to do to me. All people see me now is this angry black woman. I'm sitting with tears streaming down my face, as I got pretty much checked to be in my place in front of my daughters. While everybody else goes back to laughing and cheering go up like the provost, the President, I like looked down, I could see them there, chillin. I was like, What is this state? What is the school? What is this community that I have inserted myself in? Why am I breaking my back to do all of this work on this campus. And when I needed you to have my back, to have our back silence. That game was on a Saturday, Monday comes around, there's a whole athletic meeting, they don't mention it once what happened, nobody's made any email announcements to the campus. So that's the problem. We can get very comfortable in Vermont that we're doing the work and we're liberal. But then this stuff like this is happening all the time. And we're really good at either pushing the story under the rug or sweeping it away, or just quieting it down. In that incident, I think athletics was raising money for a new gym, we trying to like rough up season ticket holders and all of that stuff. And it was just so messed up. And that was me realizing this job is a fucking job and it will kill you. And at that point, it was just, it was killing my soul as a black person. And I wasn't courageous enough to move on then. But it would come with time. And I would do some more life work in 2019. And I go to a retreat, hosted by you that would affirm that I was resigning from my job. I joke with my partner that if I wasn't resigning from using them yet, when I would have been resigning after your retreat, but I was so happy to see a person in that room that I was like, and that's why I told them I'm getting the hell out like I'm Reclaiming my life that like

you use professional development money to come to my retreat to then quit your job.

James, the minute I wanted to get on this storytelling path, I was aligning myself with any retreat that would invite me to ask myself the deeper questions. And it related back to the work I was doing with first year experience because that's what I wanted my new students to do. So I was always able to tweak something for it to all be aligned. But I was like yo UVM is paying me right now the reflect on how I'm going to be the best version of myself after I leave

them. It's promos right there. That's proliferations

reparations Yo, I don't feel God do sky do But yeah, Vermont is, it's just it can be very ugly as all the other places. And you know, once you start making your way through the Kool Aid, stop drinking the Kool Aid, work your way through the fog, you see the truth. And then at that point, you got to make some serious life choices of what does that mean. And for me, one of my motivators for wanting to get out of UVM was to take my power back, I want to drive the spaces that I'm immersing myself in, I want to drive who's telling me what workout shooters and I'm like, I'm done, people having ownership over my intellectual wisdom, and my physical body, because in safe, enslavement stopped, supposedly, that stopped, like, centuries ago. But when I worked for UVM, I was enslaved. That's, that's what that was. For me, I don't care if this is what you feel could be the best for first year students. This is what we need, or we're not going to talk to you about moving your office, we're just going to move you because we see this magic that you do in this division, and we're just going to put you in another division. But why didn't you haven't even talked to me about why I thrive in this particular area, this land, this division, there's a reason why we make sense here. But people see you magical, and they just think you're pawns in their game. And so for me, I love that I get to do work now. Where on Monday, James, on Monday, I had to do a storytelling offering for a group of students, mostly white students, mostly men. And it was the first time I was doing an offering after an incident that happened to my family over Thanksgiving. Over the Thanksgiving, break my family and I discovered that somebody wrote the N word on the hood of our on our car. So we've been processing that. And we've just been kind of off the grid, trying to figure out what does that mean. And I had to show up for the first time in a public way, since this assault happened to me and my family, and I'm showing up in a space that's mostly white, mostly men, and I'm the only black woman in the space. Back then in UVM, if that was the setting that I had to go in as the FYE, Director, I would have to just do business, as usual, mask up what I was holding, and just hold them. But what I got to do, because this is my business. And this is actually a very important moment for them as students to be like, you know how we were all excited to go on break, we just wanted to rest we just wanted to do us our break down and go the way that we envisioned. Instead, we discovered that someone wrote the N word on our car. I don't know where it happened. And that's something in itself, but like my family safekey.

Like having to tell our daughters that like this person, when they wrote this on our car, you just didn't get at me as a black person. You got at my partner you got at my kids. Monday morning, when we let melody walk to school, we had a do we let her walk to school still. This is this, this is all that has happened on Monday more. And so to get those men to get those white students in particular, and then to empower some of the few Brown students that are in that space to share. That's my story to Furrion I only live two streets away from you. And when we moved into the neighborhood, some kid just called me the N word. I'm really sorry, that happened to you. And their friends are like, Whoa, this is happening. But I thought we were so progressive and Burlington, did it we paint black lives matter. And I go I know, right, Leo, it can feel that way. It feels like we're doing the work. But both actually exist. We've come so far, and we haven't come far at all. And we just had real talk. And, and they're not thinking about it. I don't know if I'm changing lives. But I do know in that moment, one story at a time, me taking the risk to unpack what it meant to have this hate crime happened to me. And what does it mean for all of us to invest in it? Like I looked at that room and I said, I do not know if I have the capacity to be the facilitator. You are used to me being when I come here. So I'm looking to you to help me start healing. And that's why I needed to talk about this. And I and this is why I kind of need you to care because it's affecting the way that I show up in this very moment. Because prior to coming here today. I haven't been out of bed for three days. Just staying safe. In my bubble, so I just want you to know I trusted you enough to come here this morning. That's powerful. That's very different than, you know, learning whatever the history shit they're doing in school these days. And since then, I've seen snippets of their reflections. I got a card in the mail from a student in their family. Friend, I'm sorry, I heard this happened to you. Once three at a time, realness vulnerability, it takes risk on my end. But it helps me do my work and my healing. All it is, is helping me be in check with who I am. And so yeah.

First off, that is so messed up that your family was assaulted that way. And as your friend sorry, as a fellow human, I'm sorry, who's a white person? I'm sorry. And, but is? Yeah, I literally could only imagine because I've never been there never had anything even remotely close to that happened to me. But I can only imagine the fear, the anger, the distrust the I don't know, the rage, the grief, everything that that you and your family are going through. And a place where, you know, you started off this this episode, talking about how Vermont has really become a place that you love. Right? Yeah. And, and, and, you know, and it's, it's just really, it's really messed up to have someone shake the core of something you love, right? It's like, in a very different way. Right. And this is an a very different way we had our car broken into, and they stole a whole bunch of stuff out of our car. Now going back into the car feels weird. Someone else has been there. Someone else has stepped into right? And it's it's a completely different dynamic from what you experienced. But like, you going out to your car, you walking around your community, you, you know, people looking at you like what are you? It's probably you. I see you over there, Phil. Right. So

am I supposed to check my car before? And after I go into it like, yeah, I don't. So I'm just trying to live I'm just trying to go to the grocery I'm just trying to run an errand. You know, James I, that word, which, you know, has been around for centuries upon centuries upon centuries. And the the way that word was used so long ago, still has the the gutting power still in 2021. Like that, like that was the moment I had when I saw that word on my hood change, as I expressed to the students and to anybody else who had processed it with it stripped me of everything. Seeing that word just stripped me, all of this work that I've been doing, who I am proud of like what I've done to show up in this thing called life trying to not just survive it, but thrive as a black person, because that is my birthright. doing the work, hustling, started my own business. I like all of this stuff. And in that moment, when I saw that word, I got reduced to nothing. I felt crippled i i started I questioned my worth, I questioned everything, like what I meant to the all of it. And it's just like, wow, if that's what that word was doing to me in 2021 like and you just go back and think of all the different scenarios when that word was used in a way to cause harm or to remind someone that I see you as less than. So I've had to do this healing work of coming out of this funk. And I think that's why it rocked me so much because I've really tried in the last couple of years of my life to know who I am and to walk in that greatness to move in that greatness. And too often barriers people haters, they try to throw all this stuff in the way when you're dimming your brightest and you know that's what some of the conversation was like I'm someone in the community was really vocal, social organizing and all of that stuff. This comes with doing this work. You know, like also I'm speaking in the park every Tuesday, and I'm telling people exactly how I feel or see things. Because we have to be more honest with ourselves community. Because we've been living in a dream sometimes that like the dream, that's not good for us to live in. And it was just wild how that seemed that were on my car. Also, it made me feel like everything was a loss. And I was like, No, remember who you are, you know, and I love my partners in my community and myself, more importantly, to be able to figure out how to bounce back. But I said to the students, I felt like someone took my voice away. And so the next time that I have to be visibly public with an offering, I'm curious how it might influence my collective spirit. Because I take a risk every time I open my mouth, in this particular body, that I've moved through the world. And

yeah, it is, it is so much more than just another story in your arsenal. And I'm grateful that you let us in today, grateful for the way that you spoke about it. It is. It's important, and it's hard. It's hard to hear. Not just because you're my friend, but also because you're a fellow human. And, and it's fucked up. And so I really appreciate you letting us in. Sounds like you had a real powerful moment with those men. At that, that opportunity that you had to work with them yesterday, I think you said and it just, it just goes to show you why the work that you're doing with all art inspirations is powerful. I mean, why it matters, because it's stories, right? It's not just yo, someone wrote the M word on my car, that really sucks, right? And what you what you just did, is you you told us the story about it, not that you had planned, you didn't have a beginning, middle and end, it wasn't some whatever, like put it up at the moth kind of story. Right? Like what like, but it's at the same time it was, it was it was a broken story, because it was it was vulnerable is in the moment, you're actively processing and thinking about it and, and having to relive it, it's so fresh, and etc, etc. But like these, these are the stories that you help others unlock and tell and listen to as well. So that they can get a better picture of, of the world of difference of culture of their own selves, their stories that they have discounted. And, or they have told themselves that's not enough, or I'm not interesting, or I'm not whatever, right? The work that you do is so incredibly powerful. And I couldn't be more proud to call you my friend. And to watch you do the work to get to experience your work. And it has been an honor to have you in the diner.

Thank you for having me. Ah, oh man, someday I want to get you a diner. I want to get like a moveable one like like we should like we remix like an Airstream to get to just like cross country, like just pulling people into the cars. Just the whole story behind a diner in the vibes of it. Like I've had some beautiful late night stories that we tell over thick toast with butter and greasy plate and coming in and out. And it's like, Oh, that would be a good setting for a story slam. Then right? Watch for what you do to at least allow us to experience the vibes and the magic of that in the moment. on the heart, what's on the soul through this podcast. So it's an absolute honor to be a guest. So thank you, James.

Hell yeah, hell yeah. For him. We could talk. We could talk for hours. There's so much more in your story. You have so many more stories. And so I'm excited to have you back on eventually, just because there's so much more that we can get into. And I want to know what you're up to. I want to know what are the big goods are for sale on your website. So I am stoked that you were here. Thank you for coming. Let the people know where can people catch up with you? Where can people learn more about all heart inspirations?

Yes, yes. I love Instagram. And so I put a lot of energy into stories. I love that feature of Instagram and so but Instagram all hard inspirations, Facebook all hard inspirations, website all hard inspiration stuff. Calm. And also, if you say for marine and storytelling, that combination is pretty unique right now in the global world. So I love that, that there's a variety of different ways that people can find us. And we look forward to just manifesting more opportunities for people to have these heartfelt centered moments.