On this episode of The Karen Kenney Show, I talk about what it means to find the new ​"right distance​" in ​our relationships​.

Whether ​t​hat's choosing to be ​w​icked close​ to some people - while having to keep a few other humans a little ​bit at arm’s length​.

The thing is, sometimes being all up close and cozy is where it's at - and ​sometimes what we need to do consider is if it makes more sense to go ​"no contact​" for a while.

I share why communication breakdowns, unacknowledged feelings, and old trauma patterns​ can make us rethink how close we can safely be with certain people, including ​our own family.

I also dive into ​setting boundaries without being reactive, ​how we can give ​ourselves space for clarity​ to come through, and ​the willingness to stay open ​(if ​t​hat’s truly right for you) ​f​or the possibility of reconciliation​ and repair​.

​While we often wish for there to be respectful communication and connection with those we care about - sometimes we have to simply walk away with love​. ❤️

KAREN KENNEY BIO:

Karen Kenney is a writer, speaker, podcaster, certified spiritual mentor, and coach.

She’s known for her dynamic storytelling, her sense of humor, her Boston accent, and her no-bullshit approach to spirituality, self​-development, and transformational work.

Karen helps people to navigate this whole “being human” experience using practical tools, universal principles and stories, and a variety of resources.

KK has been a yoga teacher for 25+ years, has been giving Thai Yoga Massage since 2008, and began teaching it in 2015.

She's also a Gateless Writing Instructor, and host of The Karen Kenney Show podcast.

She coaches clients individually in her 1:1 program THE QUEST and via her HEART-TO-HEART DAYS using Voxer. She also leads a group program and community called THE NEST.

CONNECT WITH KAREN:

Website: http://karenkenney.com/

Podcast: https://www.karenkenney.com/podcast

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/karenkenneylive/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karenkenneylive/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@KarenKenney

It's the Karen Kenney show. Hey you guys,

welcome to the Karen Kenney show. Okay, I'm just gonna give

it to you straight. Oh, my God, I'm just gonna give it to you

straight, and I'm gonna give it to you real. So I've been having

a lot of conversations lately with people about situations in

their life, about relationships, about communication,

communication that was given, communication that was received,

communication that never happened but should have, etc,

etc, etc. You know, this is just one of the hardest things about

being human, and that is other humans, right? People be

peopling. So back in 2020 when I first started this sucker, the

Karen Kenney show, I did an episode, I think it was episode

53 and I called it finding the right distance. And this is

going to be like finding the right distance part too, or

finding the new right distance or something. I don't know what

I'm going to call this, but I want to just, and I'm going to

try to keep this one short. It might not be sweet, though this

is what I want to say. So there's a time when I used to

always say, sometimes you just have to love people from a

distance. And you have probably heard this phrase before, right?

And it kind of means this idea that sometimes when we're too up

close and personal with people, and I'm holding up my hands,

right, and my hands like, maybe there's, like, I don't know, a

half an inch or so, like, between them, right? My palms

are facing each other. And sometimes when we're in too

close of a proximity to people, whether that's physically,

emotionally, whatever damage is going to be done, because one or

both of those people do not have interpersonal relationship

skills, they do not have emotional intelligence, they do

not have a spiritual toolkit. They do not have a self

development toolbox. They were never taught whatever the excuse

is, whatever the reason is, and you've heard me say it 1000

times, that trauma explains a lot of things, but it doesn't

excuse them all. There comes a time in our life when each of us

must be responsible for the way that we are speaking, the way

that we are talking to ourselves and each other, the way that we

are acting, the way that we are showing up or not showing up,

the choices we're making, what we're thinking, saying, doing,

believing, our behaviors, etc. There comes a point where we can

look at our lives and we can say, well, I'm only like this

because they did x, y and z, because my parents were like

this. Or now, I'm not talking about systemic systems of racism

or misogyny or, you know, Semitism or abuse. I'm not

talking about that. I'm just saying like, one to one

interpersonal relationships, whether that's with the sibling,

whether that's with a parent, whether that's with a sweetie,

whether that's with a friend, whatever it is, there will often

come a time in the relationship when one of the people or both

have to really look at, are we better together or apart? Are we

better? Do we bring out the best in each other at this distance?

And again, I'm holding my hands not like two inches apart or

this distance, and I've got them pretty far away from each other,

like a foot and a half. Okay, so nobody can really determine for

you what the right distance is. And what I find so fascinating

these days is that there's a whole generation, a younger

generation of, I say kids, right? They're not really kids,

like people in their 30s, maybe sometimes even up into that.

Maybe it's even in their 20s, 30s, early 40s, whatever, who

are deciding to go what they call no contact, like no

contact, with their families and people are just horrified by

this. The older generations are like, oh, you know, family,

blood is sicker than water,

and I'm able to kind of see it from both points of view. I

think there are times when a conversation could be had and

maybe healing could happen. It's not for me to say when somebody

should or shouldn't apologize, or should or shouldn't forgive

or whatever. That's an individual case by case basis,

and it's a very personal decision, and people have to

decide for themselves. But I can see why sometimes there is an

argument to at least attempt to try and have a conversation and

have reconciliation and allow the possibility that healing can

happen, but there are just going to be other times people, oh my

god, where other humans do not have the capacity to own their

shit. They do not have the capacity to see from a different

perspective, to see how somebody else might be feeling. Feeling.

And one of the things that I hear a lot from the younger

generations is that when I try to talk to my parents or my

whoever right about what what my childhood felt like, or what I

felt like or what my experience was, they defend, they refuse.

They make excuses. They just say, you know, and this is, I

hear this a lot about, like, Gen X kids, which is me, I'm a Gen X

kid, right? Is that because we were the original latch key

kids, right? We were the original ones left home alone

and highly unsupervised and wildly feral, and we had to

figure everything out for ourselves, etc, etc, etc. A lot

of times, our story is we had it way worse than you. You don't

know what it's like. So a kid will come to a parent and start

to say, this is how I felt, this is what it was like to be your

kid. This is what the environment was like at home.

These are what my feelings were, or how I felt. And the parent

immediately starts going into storytelling and making excuses

and saying, Well, you don't know how hot I had it, and you don't

know what I was trying to do, and I poured my blood, sweat and

tears and trying to make a home for you, and I didn't even have

one. Blah, blah. And what's missing there is a compassionate

witness and an unshaming Witness and a loving witness to just

acknowledge what the kid is feeling. And there are going to

be times why I'm saying all this is there are going to be times

when maybe no contact is not only going to be what they

choose, but for some people, it might be the safest and best

result, because it feels like you're beating your head against

a wall. Because no matter what you say, your feelings don't get

acknowledged. Your feelings don't get recognized. You are

not seen, you are not heard, and what you feel doesn't matter.

And in fact, you're just going to keep getting more excuses,

and I keep going back to that thing, right? Trauma can explain

a lot of things. Yes, you went through these things. Yes, these

things happen. And yes, that was really hard, meaning the Gen X

kid, yeah, Gen X is, we had it kind of rough, and it doesn't

excuse us from what we are not doing now as adults or as

parents or whatever, right? And so when I remember, when I'll

just kind of point back to this, when I first I used to say, you

could, you can love, you should. Sometimes you need to love

people from a distance, because that's what's safest, right? Why

keep putting yourself in an environment or in a relationship

with another person where they don't respect you and they have

nothing but contempt for you and they're not kind to you, and why

do you think I've been told this many times in my life, right?

What did you expect you knew who you were dealing with, right?

And that's something slightly different about me because, and

I'll get into that in a minute, but here's my whole point. So I

used to say, sometimes you need to love people from a distance.

And then my friend Marianne C once said,

sometimes it's about finding the right distance. It's not just

loving them from a distance, it's about finding that right

distance, right whether again and I'm bringing my hands

together and in twining my fingers, sometimes that's the

right distance. You're really close, you're really intimate,

you're really vulnerable with each other. It's a balanced

relationship. It's a healthy relationship. It feels really

good. And whether that's you know, a sweetie, a lover, a

friend, a sibling, family member, whatever, sometimes the

right distances, you guys are all up in each other's business

in the best way, right? It's a good thing. Sometimes the best

distance is there's a little gap between you, right? And maybe

you just talk on the phone on Sunday nights or whatever it is,

and then the distance can go out to the to like XFINITY, right,

which is where you never talk again. You're just out of each

other's life, or until one of you finally dies, or whatever

the situation is, and sometimes that distance will be

negotiable. Sometimes you'll move closer towards one another.

Sometimes you have to move farther apart. And this can be

very prevalent when, let's say one of you is, you know, has

substance abuse disorder, or one of you is an alcoholic, or one

of you is, you know, you know, stealing money from people to,

like, get their next fix, or somebody like, whatever, they're

not safe to be around. So they steal from you. They harm you.

You're totally codependent together. Whatever it is,

sometimes it's going to fluctuate, and sometimes those

distances will be, oh, you know, you got your act together.

You're making amends, you're trying to get your life

together. Great. We're really close. And then if somebody

like, you know, does something and it betrays a trust, or

breaks a friendship, or whatever happens, you know, whatever lie,

steals, whatever harms you, right, then that distance might

go wide again. And I think it's good that we stay flexible. I

think it's good for us to not just like draw lines in the sand

and be wicked rigid. But there might be times when that's what

the appropriate response is, is that you cross a line in a

boundary with me or my kids or something that I just don't feel

safe around you. I don't think this is healthy or whatever it

is. And again, we may not always agree with other people's

distances. We might not always see it from their perspective.

Or think it's the right response, especially if you feel

like you're the one that's being sent to Siberia to never be

heard from again or whatever. But most people, you know, this

is the thing. I was doing a team leadership thing today, and I

was I talked, I talked to a team of people, and I was talking

about self leadership and communication, and one of the

ways that, or the reasons why I see so many people having to

choose new distances, is because there is a breakdown in

communication. Either they don't know how to say what they say,

so they just suck it up and stuff it down, and the

relationship kind of implodes, or just slowly fades away or

drifts off into the sunset and everybody just lets it go away.

Or sometimes, you know, the communication style is

combative, and somebody gets their feelings hurt and they're

like, fuck you. I'm done. I'm not dealing with this anymore.

Sometimes they try to speak and communicate their needs or what

they're feeling, and they are met with defensiveness and they

don't feel heard. I mean, there's 1000 ways, but a lot of

times this whole, you know, finding the right distance,

the reason why people are looking for new distances in the

first place is because there's been some kind of communication

breakdown, and they just believe sometimes that there is no point

in communicating what they feel and what they think, because you

are not going to be able to handle it or respond, or you're

going to react in a particular way, or you're just going to

throw it back in their face, right? So learning how to

communicate well, you know, I think I recently did a podcast

about this is so so, so important. But this little

episode, this quick little episode, I just wanted to come

back to it, because there's is some hope here. When you're

trying to navigate a new distance. I mean, you also get

to determine whether or not you want to communicate to that

other person that you're setting a new boundary. You're setting

some new distance between you. Sometimes you'll get the hit

hint, but other times, I've seen people come to me sad and upset

and they say, I don't know what I've done, but my this person

who I thought was my best friend has just disappeared from my

life. They won't answer my texts. They won't answer my

phone calls. I don't know what I did, and sometimes they just

feel like, you know, they won't talk to me. And sometimes, look,

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, that a person doesn't

just up and, you know, just decide to break things off and

try to start a new life or a new thing, it does happen. But from

the other point of view, I often hear that people like I tried to

tell you in seven ways till Sunday, and you just could not

hear it, and you kept crossing my boundary, or you kept doing

the same thing that I told you that I didn't like, etc, etc. So

if these things are kind of happening in your life, meaning

you're on the receiving end of somebody creating a new a new

distance from you. You know, it's helpful to, kind of like,

take a little moral inventory, as they say in in recovery

programs, right? Take a fearless moral inventory and find out,

you know, and just go through, I would say, don't, you don't have

to obsess about it. But just go back and say, Hey, was there any

time that I was unkind? Was there any time that I was not a

good friend? Was it was there something I could have said or

done or that I did, or did they ever say to me that they were

upset with me? Sometimes you're going to have no idea why it's

happening. Other times you might have a sneaking suspicion.

Sometimes you might be afraid. You're like, oh shit, I know

what I did. And at that point, you get to decide if you want to

apologize or say, Hey, I feel like you've been really distant

lately. Is there something that I did or that I said? Do you

want to talk about it?

But sometimes, look the fast, the best and fastest thing you

can do is get out of dodge and just put a lot of distance

between you and them, because whether and that's whether to do

with, you know, and I don't, I don't use the word, you know,

mental illness, in a way of like, Oh, if somebody has mental

illness, you push them aside. But there are times when people

are in their in their patterns of self destruction, or in their

patterns of being destructive towards other people, or there's

something going on where you're like, This is not a good time to

be, and it doesn't I'm not talking like, abandon your

people when they're going through a tough time. I'm just

saying, and some of you, I know, you know what I'm talking about,

there are just times when you have to say, I'm not going to

sit around and, like, watch this. I don't want to be a part

of this. I've been here done that. It's too painful, it's too

much. And when you're ready to, like, get it together and have a

real conversation, then we can talk. So there will be times

when people will just completely cast you out of their hat.

That's not what I'm saying, that you should or shouldn't do. I

always say, Leave room. Leave room to reconcile if that's what

you desire. And that's one of the things when you're setting

the right distance, is you have to ask yourself, you know, what

is going to be the consequence of me choosing this distance,

and am I okay with it? And am I just choosing this for now, or

am I open to reconciling? Am I open to a conversation where we

both can try and hear each other so that we may get closer

together again? And one of the great things about it's not

always bad. You know, when somebody is setting new

distances with each other, it's not always bad, because

sometimes, from a distance, you can get a little bit more

perspective. After you licked your wounds a little bit, or

your ego wasn't so hurt anymore, or whatever the thing is, you

can start to get a little bit different perspective and say,

Yeah, you know what, I need to own that pot that was on me, or,

you know what? Sometimes you get more clarity about like, you

know what? I don't want this to work out. I have no interest in

continuing this friendship or this relationship or whatever.

So that distance can really give us clarity, and it can also help

us to make that decision from a calm place, not when we're

triggered, not when we're upset. And we can make it from a

compassionate place, and after we've done some, you know, self

inquiry with a curiosity and stuff, we can say, okay, yeah,

this is where I've landed. This is how I feel. And now I just

have to have the courage to communicate it or not. Some

people don't feel the need to do it, and I know that I'm not

really giving any definitive answers today. I'm just wanting

to talk about this, because it's coming up again and again and

again and again, with people about relationships falling

apart, friendships falling apart, you know, like within

family systems, like parents and children no longer talking

anymore. Or, you know, this one's like, they won't let me

see my grandbabies or whatever. Like we see it all over the

place and and even in my own life, you know, there are times

when I'm like, Oh, I just need to create some distance, because

this is not going to end well. Going to end well, if I don't,

and a lot of times it seems like maybe you're creating distance

for your own mental sanity. And sometimes I'm like, No, trust

me, I'm saving them for myself. Because what I would be, what I

would say to them right now, if I just didn't care about being

compassionate or loving, I don't think that we would, we would

rebound from the words that would come out of my mouth. You

know what I mean, Vicki with 2k from Lawrence, when she wants to

grab the mic, it is best that I kind of, I always say that I

just kind of moon walk out of the room a little bit and let

there be a little bit of space. Because I, you know, if I really

wanted to, it's not that hard for me to be mean. And I really

try hard not to be mean, and I really try not to give into

that. That part of me that wants to, you know, wants to just tell

it like it is very directly. So I always say honesty without

compassion is brutality, and I really don't feel like being

brutal towards people. But sometimes me and my nervous

system need a break from fucking nonsense. You know what I'm

saying. So I don't know if this is helpful to you. I don't

imagine that every single thing that comes out of my mouth is

helpful all the time, but it is my hope. It is my hope that

something that I share, you recognize yourself in it, or it

resonates, or you can relate to it, and that somehow you could

maybe use it and apply it in a way that makes your life better

and helps to spread a little bit more love. And it might seem

like how is finding the distance away from people, you know,

helping us to find more love? And I said, you know, sometimes,

you know all those things like oil and water and magnets repel

and blah, blah, sometimes, even if your blood, even if you're a

blood relative, it doesn't mean you're supposed to be friends

your whole life. There are going to be times when morals, you

know, your morals and your ethics and your beliefs, and you

know whether it's political or whether it's just, you know, you

don't agree on on certain things, certain behaviors,

things that happen because people, people be peopling, and

people hurt each other and betray each other all the time,

and sometimes you just need to step back or step away for good.

So I'm not here to tell you what your distances should be. I'm

just here to support you in saying, like, I get it. I get it

how sometimes you need to find that space.

And I would just encourage you, though, to do it mindfully, to

not do it reactionally. Like, do it. Like, make your choices when

you and your nervous system have come back to a more calm and

clear space, so that you know why you're choosing it, and

you're not just like freaking out and having a hissy fit or a

temper tantrum or a tizzy or whatever, a conniption fit, as

we would say when we were kids, right? Just know that I'm making

this decision with a clear mind. And you know, and again, you get

to decide, maybe there's room for reparations. Maybe this is

going to wash out on the other side after a little bit of time,

and sometimes it's just not going to happen, because no

matter how hard you try, it just feels like you are pushing

something uphill that you are dragging so my friend KT and I

talk about, it's like dragging dead carrots behind you on a

dirty string. It's just like, I don't want to do this anymore.

This this relationship is just, I'm just dragging it behind me,

and it is so not attractive or fun or soothing, and it's

exhausting and boring, and I'm over it. I'm over just banging

my head against the wall, you know what I mean? So hopefully

look, and I think we feel that way sometimes, just look at our

government. Sometimes we feel that way, right like, I don't

want to what is happening, like what is happening right now. So,

yeah, just, I think I'm just sharing this from my heart to

yours, so that you don't feel alone out there if you're

struggling trying to make sense of some things, and you're just

feeling like, you know, I told you guys I met, I met a guy the

other day, and I said, Well, what are you gonna do when you

retire? And he's like, move to the woods away from people and

grow my hair long? And I thought it was really funny. I'm like,

dude, dude. I know the feeling right? It's like, Cal gone, as

we used to say when we were kids. Cal. Go and take me away.

But here's the other thing, people, people can be so

beautiful and so inspiring and so wonderful and so kind and

compassionate, and they can also be infuriating and brutal and

vicious and ridiculous and flabbergasting and whatever. And

we are all often those things to each other, all of us. Nobody is

exempt. I'm sure there are plenty of people that had to

make some distance from me in my lifetime, and plenty of people

I've had to, you

know, create new distance from also, so none of us, none of

this, get and none of us get out of this squeaky clean, you know

what I mean, but for your own well being and your own mental

health. But just Also, know, make sure that, because it can

be really easy too, for your friends to just say things like,

you should cut them off. You should tell them this. You

should that wasn't nice. Blah, blah, look, you have to, at some

point, be an adult and trust your own in a teacher and your

own instincts, your own intuition. Yes, you can get the

guidance and support of people who love you and also question

like, why am I doing this? Am I withholding and am I doing this

to be hurtful? Do I have an agenda, or is this what I feel

like right now, with the information that I have, this is

the best choice for me and my kids, or me and myself, or me

and my family or whatever, that we just create a little distance

here so you're not alone in this. You guys. Humaning is

fucking hard, and stuff will be happening all the time, and

you're not alone. And I see you and I hear you and I feel you,

and I get you, I understand to the best of my capacity that I

can and sometimes it's not always comfortable making these

choices. Sometimes we do it and it doesn't feel great, and we

feel guilty, and you might feel a little like, Oh, I feel like

I'm judgy. This feels judgy and whatever, and they're not going

to understand and they're not going to like it. And I'm like,

Look, sometimes you can communicate your choice to them,

and sometimes you can say, this is why I'm setting this

boundary. This is what I'm doing. But sometimes people

can't hear it. Sometimes people will just, you know, try to drag

you into more drama and conversations that you don't

want to have. But sometimes you do deserve you do owe people an

explanation, and if they're able to hear it and you're able to

talk to each other like loving and compassionate adults, it

might be fruitful. You might find out some things and

reconcile, and that'll be great. And sometimes it is just not

going to happen. And like I said, I'm holding my hands up

again, right right now. They're like, about four inches apart.

Sometimes that's the right distance. And what I mean by

that is that might stand for, we see each other once a month at

Ma's house for Sunday dinner, right? It might go out a little

bit wider, and it's like, yeah, we see each other at the family

holidays. It might go out a little bit wider. It's like,

yeah, we send each other a Christmas card, right? I mean,

whatever it is, whatever the distance is, right? And

sometimes you negotiate those distances, and sometimes one of

you just just does it and you talk about it, and sometimes you

do it and you don't talk about it, and sometimes you both just

drift away from each other, and it just kind of fades off into

the sunset. You know what I'm saying. So I hope this has been

helpful in some way. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you

so much for being here and wherever you go. Just do your

darndest. Just do your real deal. Holyfield best, to leave

the animals and the other people and yourself and the planet, the

environment better than how you found it. Wherever you go, may

you and your love and your energy and your presence and the

distance that you choose be a blessing. Bye. Hey, thanks so

much for listening to the show. I really love spending some time

together. Now, if you dig the show or know someone that could

benefit from this episode, please share it with them and

help me to spread the good word and the love. And if you want to

be in the know about all of my upcoming shenanigans, head on

over to Karen kenney.com/sign up and join my list. It'll be

wicked fun to stay in touch. Bye. You.